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am i the only one who thinks that after the first movie they got a bit too over the top with the matrix movies? they sorta started substituting proper dialouge and story for special effects, scenes going for too long and what not. what do you lot think?

uh, i totally disagree. everybit of the dialogue in the two sequels was of the caliber of the Matrix, if not better. as for going for special effects, it is necessary to use special effects to the extent that they did to give it the anime-like feel that they wanted. because that is what it is. Live action anime. think about how much Special FX you would need to make DBZ live action.

think about it this way... if neo kicked the sh!t out of the architect before he got his answers, the whole world would be in limbo about the matrix. the dialogue was quintessential with the unfolding of the story. and why do people complain about the massive SFX all the time?

yeah but i think that we didn't need to know more after the first movie. the ending was perfect for it all to end there. its like trying to answer the questions asked at the end of Cube, the questions are there but its cooler that they didn't get answered. and shit went on for WAYYYYY to long in the 2nd and 3rd movies, the fightscene in the second one between Neo and the multiple Agent Smiths was heaps too long, and the scene on the freeway was the same. sure some of it was cool, but there is a limit to how long something is cool before it becomes mediocore

the burly brawl was 5 mins. The highway scene was 10. I know because I had the soundtracks to those scenes. I thought they were just perfect. There was alot going on, esp in the highway scene. It needed to be long to get the full effect of it.

I can undestand what Tabby999 is saying to a certain extent. The two sequeals do have a very different feel to them. The first movie was very real and gritty. I think that when they got to the two sequals, the philosphy aspect was more important that the realistic grittyness of the first one. The action was more fantastic and the style of the city and of the sets became more spectacular. The good thing is that the first Matrix had and actaul endein; so if you don't like the other two, just watch that one...

thats the one!

the problem with the dialogue in the sequels was that sometimes it felt like dialogue was for the sake of dialogue, as in being too over the top, too convoluted, the wachowskis seemed like they just wanted to sound smarter half the time. as for the fights, i thought they were fine in length and content, bar the final burly brawl and some of the xion squiddy battle

Yeah, the dialogue wasn't as edgy and intillectually satisfying as that of the first movie. But then again, the sequals had a different feel, and I think that the dialogue wen't with that feel. The dialogue isn't shrouded in mystery anymore.

No, i think thats the problem, the dialogue is shrouded in mystery in the sequels, they constantly tip toe around the truth in the sequels so they don't actually tell you anything, the only dialogue scene that actually gives us real dialogue is the Architect scene as well as most of the military talk and petty stuff in the real world, other than that, most of the dialogue (important dialogue) is a bunch of questions or things that we don't see on film so we still don't know what they're talking about.

mordecai, thats the best explanation ive heard so far

the brothers don't have to want to sound smarter...they already are smarter...but yeah, part of the mystique is in telling us as much as possible without revealing the whole truth, until the Architect. He is Pandora, and without him, we live in ignorance...

So true...

smarter than who? there is a big difference between intelligence and bullshit, most of the dialogue was pretty good, but they got carried away and ended up ruining the movies, showing off for the sake of showing off is not a good way to make a movie

The dialogue is a summary of what the matrix is, especially the Architect's speech. It's just a sort of facade. Just as the matrix hid the real world from the humans still in it, the dialogue did the same thing, telling you the major facts you needed to follow along the story, but hinting at the deeper facts instead of spoon feeding it to you, the X-files did the same thing. The Wachowski(sp?) bros. even said this themselves, they didn't want the movie to be just one way or have the same meaning to everyone, that's why they had the dialogue like it was so that if someone wants to think the Merovingian was previous "one" they can, or if they don't think he was than that's their version of the story. I think it's a really cool way to do it, where almost everyone can have their own version of the Matrix movies that they believe or have it the way they like, although it is not a usual way which is why many people don't like it also

i understand what u mean and i love to be able to draw my own conclusions, but sometimes it felt like they were trying a little too hard to leave it to the audience, almost like they ran out of ideas sometimes.

or they have too much to put into 3 movies.

noone in the mainstream film industry will stop at 3 movies if they think they can make a few more, they'll just pump them out regardless

do you know how many versions of the matrix movies they can pump out using the same sh!t that made the trilogy great? a sh!tload. and people get saturated quick. my point being, they can continue making all this matrix movies, but how much will the public take?

not much, look at how little publicity was done for revolutions compared to return of the king, or even star wars episode 3 which is a long way off, i think another matrix movie would have to be pretty close to the originals quality to do well

They won't do another movie...perhaps another animatrix, which would be sweet, but they won't do another movie...they have already said they won't. The story they told is over.

like i said before if they got told "hey, we'll give you a butt load of money and a huge budget, make a spin off Matrix movie or 4" course they will.

I don't think so. A pequel maybe, but a sequal, never.

no. The brothers, and Joel Silver, have said that there will be no more movies. (not that silver matters anyway, but still...)

if the studio want it done they can simply take the rights to the movie and have someone else make it

I am pretty sure they can't.

urm....ok?

course they can, the studios own the rights to most of their movies, so if they want to they can do whatever the hell they like to a movie

OMG!!! shut up....the ending after M1 wasent good enough, thats why they did the other 2, neo's beginning to neo's end, thats the story, the story of the one, and no they wernt over the top, i dont even know what u mean by that honestly....everything fits in with everything perfectly, just leave it the way that it is, because it is the way that it is and theres nothing that you can do about it...nor is there anything that i would say needs to be done about it

Not even the CG Burley Brawl...

remember, they were trying to get an anime type of film, that's why they did it that way, also it would've taken forever to shoot that scene live action with 100 doubles, and it wouldv'e been an impossible thing to try and shoot live action.

I don 't care care how long it would take. That scene looked like S**t...

for all the troubles they overcame to create the movies, i coudln't see why they can't make a better burly brawl. plus, they don't need all those extras... they just need to place the smiths neo is supposed to step on and fill the rest in with cg... the good cg.

I agree