Sex before or after marrage.

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ash007
why would some people wait to have sex beofre marriage.
i mean these day people get married in there late 20 and earily 30
why should you have to wait i mean if yo uknow if love that person very much whats wrong with have sex.

plus iam a religious perosn i got to church every sunday i pray all the time. But i have a girlfriend who i love very much and in a couple of years time we will marry.

LindsIsTightK
I think it just depends on the person and what they feel is right and what they believe in. Usually the people who want to wait to have sex until they are married tend to get married pretty young, like between 18 - 23.

Thomas H
always before marrige!!yea!!

yerssot
yeah, like linds said, when you're ready and some say that's until after marriage
it depends on your views and values and that's different for everyone

ash007
thats true but i hate people who say people who have sex beofore marriage are evil and not pure.

thats what really pissed me of

yerssot
well, that's their problem, most people are not religious anymore, so they don't care at all about that

lil bitchiness
You are very wrong yerss about ''most people arent religious''. Thats a very faulty remark because 3 billion people are very religious maybe more.


I myself am not religious and sex before marrage is fine with me...whenver it feels right really thumb up

§pearhead
Building off of what lil just said, most of the problems in the mideast originate from religion.

LanceWindu
Yup, I don't care about sex before marriage or anything like that.

When I and my partner feels it's right, we'll do it.

If that time is before or after marriage, it doesn't matter.

yerssot
let me rephrase that, lil bit,
90% of the people I directly know, are not religious

lil bitchiness
Bleh..organised religion is weird and creepy...and it makes people do stuff..What the f**k?

I think people should be allowed to have sex before marrage...thumb up if they choose to.
Most of religious people dont fear God but their parents..i think

shaber
I don't know if you are allowed to call religion there a problem, true it is very pervasive. But you don't need examples from overseas. The Muslim lobby here in the UK is very powerful and in the ghettoes a lot of white kids have converted.

I see no reason why women should cover up all the time, or be punished for wearing make up, but I would strongly advise against promiscuity, both because of the obvious risks with STDs and the possibility of unplanned pregnancy. It is very sad when someone who is a child themself ends up with a baby they can't look after.

In Lybia there is a school of thought which says that premarital sex mucks up the line of father-son continuation, so the existance of an illegitimate child is a problem. I recall there was this case of a boy who killed his sister because she had an unlawful pregnancy. In the strictly fundamentalist school of thought, this would be considered necessary to redeem the family's honour.

Baylin
Sex before everything!

Corlindel
Sex a lot big grin Its healthy happy stick out tongue

yerssot
lets remind ourselfs that religion isn't allowed to discusswink

lil bitchiness
big grinthumb up

shaber
Exactly, that's what I was trying to tell them. Religion cannot be argued with.

Corlindel
I like all religions. All of them teach me a lot and I dont belong to anyone ot them smile

mechmoggy
Sex after marriage is very rare.

lil bitchiness
laughing out loud haha!!! True true!!

yerssot
marriage with children is even worse wink

Corlindel
Well I have a kid and I am not married big grin Me and my son's mother didn't married yet wink

shaber
Some religions have awkward laws prohibiting infanticide Yerssot, but others don't.

yerssot
it was a hint at the tv show wink

LindsIsTightK
I'm not saying sex before marriage isn't ok or that people who do have sex before marriage are evil and unpure, but I think that the lack of religious views, beliefs, and values today are what is causing 12 year olds to go out and get someone pregnant or get pregnant themselves. So in that respect, I would have to say that sex should be something you wait for until you are atleast 17 or 18 years old.

shaber
There are religious values and there are religious values, ie there are good and bad religious types. The good ones will not be prescriptive and will try instead to help people. ie, a good religion will advise against promiscuity, but won't ever pull out a girl's fingernails for wearing nail varnish.

I like the idea of telling them apart by gut reaction.

Yes, I agree that one should not have sex at too young an age. I think even 17 might be a little too young... but then if the person is prepared properly then it could be alright.

BackFire
Lets not turn this into a religious discussion guys, it will turn ugly if it goes down that path.

yerssot
well, linds, that's an interesting point you raise, cause me and some others discussed this at another forum, and I blamed that on them seeing what the olders ie.: their older brothers or sisters do and want to act like them cause when they have a GF/BF and got sex, they are grown up and people listen to them
it's mimetical wanting, someone got a GF/BF, they want one too, that one got sex, they won't it too

and it's that, imho that gets them to go run around and having those problems like ending up pregnant, cause they have absolutely NO idea what that means, they think of it as, the baby is quiet all the time, barely needs to get changed, easy to entertain and barely needs toys, they see the positive things but don't see that it involves them waking up in the middle of the night cause the baby is crying etc.

Ushgarak
Sex before marriage?

Why not? So long as it doesn't mean you are late getting to the wedding...

lil bitchiness
Ush> laughing out loud

Linds, you're right...young girls are getting pregnant, but thats all due to ignorance...some of it is anyway. I think children need to be thought about sex, and condom...damn it!! use it!!

Some religions are like that, true...but im sure in 100 years time, it will all be good big grin

Ushgarak
Thank you, thank you, I thought I would lighten things up...

lil bitchiness
thumb up you did!

I thought you are gonna come in and put your grumpy mod hat on...but you didnt!! big grinthumb up

Dirty Vader
Sex before marriage? Hell yeah!
You dont expect people to wait a whole year or even more do you?
I mean come on, marriage takes time.

rusky
I think it's ok to have sex before marriage(some peaople don't get married their whole lives ) but as u all have said, protection is very important, and as long as kids everywhere are taught that, there shouldn't be a problem...
Also, sex could be a privilege of age....like drinking alcohol big grin

Punker69
I am a christian and apart of my faith is that we wait till where married to have sex.Because it says in the bible to stay pure till marrige.My faith teaches that.Im not against anyone that does it before marrige tho.I just will wait.For me ill enjoy it more when im married and dont feel guilty.Another thing is BABIES! sad sad : you dont want them to apear!
But even tho its a long wait .............thats what porn is for. big grin

Myth
There is nothing wrong with sex before marriage and I actually think that people SHOULD have sex before marriage. In the old days, people jumped into marriage too early because they are horny as hell. Now I know its not really quite like that all the time, but peoples' sub-concious really drove them in that direction. Plus, many guys aren't their true selves around a girl until after they have sex with them. I'm sure many of you have heard the term "Why keep feeding the fish bait once you've caught it." Sure its disappointing when you love somebody, have sex with them, and then they become a jerk or *****. But its worse when you love somebody, marry them and have sex, then they become a jerk or *****. So in conclusion, I don't believe people should wait till marriage to have sex, but they should wait at least until they love the person they are with.

yerssot
no, not at all

they had to marry early, cause officially if they got pregnant before marriage, they would be punished by the other people with all sorts of stuff going from making noise near the window to getting a beating
So it was needed for them to get into a marriage before someone ended up being pregnant (the girl mostly, yes)

That gives that with the poor hygien and the poor way of live, with famines and such, the kids were their sources of income, so, the more they got, the more that could help them out on the field, but most of the kids died (in the 16-17 Century in France, the population even diminished!) so it was needed for them to marry soon, get lots of kids and such before the women became unfrutile.
They get unfrutile, while nursing a baby (breastfeeding) and such, so that's why they didn't had kids time after time (and given that death upon born was high too, they relatively got not that much kids as one would expect)

So, before you make a remark like "they were horny as hell" please inform yourself before making such a statement roll eyes (sarcastic)

if you wish to continue this point, there's a book (in french) out that will explain it all better but don't have my papers here so can't give it to you now

Thomas H
hey hold on now...I have one kid!!!smile

yerssot
one kid is a child, not children wink

Myth
Yerssot-
I think you just supported what I said. "they had to marry early, cause officially if they got pregnant before marriage, they would be punished by the other people with all sorts of stuff going from making noise near the window to getting a beating
So it was needed for them to get into a marriage before someone ended up being pregnant (the girl mostly, yes)"
They had to marry before the girl got pregnant which is saying that they were horny and wanted sex at that time. So therefor they rushed into marriage to have sex otherwise they'd get in trouble for having sex at that time without marriage. I don't think you read my whole post or something because I made it pretty clear that it wasn't "quite like that."

Fitch
I'm pro for sex before marriage

badkittykitty
agreed! laughing out loud

mechmoggy
Hee hee, not for me and Mrs.MM though.

We're like a couple of teenagers at times. wink

Striel
I believe that if you are planning on marrying someone, it is a good idea to have sex with them. You need to know whether or not you are compatable in that area. What if you aren't? That could destroy a marriage.

mechmoggy
And what if their bits are hideously deformed?

Thats not gonna be a nice suprise on the wedding night.

thomaswright
if u bleive in god then u must beleive in adam and eve which means u dont belive in dinosaurs

shaber
'"Have you forgotten Doublethink?"' blink

badkittykitty
what a incredibly random post...lol!

The Omega

ash007
wow Omega that was amazing
you go girl smile

I mean sex is good as long u use some sort of protection and the perosn is legal age.

mechmoggy
Will a hard-hat suffice?

xeous
So Omega, you're saying that it's not "bad" to pleasure yourslef since sex is a natural drive?

shaber
Don't mean to lower the tone xeous, but copulation is not the only way of pleasuring oneself before marriage. Masturbation has the same effect WITHOUT risking impregnating anyone or contracting STDs.

shaber
thumb up Yes, especially here in Britain, where the Labour party have made the state education system one of the worst in the western world, alot of children get into undesirable circumstances through ignorance.

However, intercourse is not the only way of premarital sexual release; masturbation is just as effective, with NO risk of unwanted pregnancies OR STDs attached. So promiscuity is never desirable or necessary.

Fire
if ppl really want to wait its good for them

SuperNova
YOU GUYS ARE SICK! MY GOD! I thought ive seen people with problems... My god... This takes the cake!

SuperNova
Talking about sex on a damn movies forum... General form means talking about just like movies and theaters and what popcorn u like ot eat and shit. NOT SEX I mean my god... Everyone on here is a stranger to you, and you want to share your opinions about sex?! My god If I was Venom id Stab ur eyes out with a rusty sprinkler key

Fire
well some ppl dont have a problem talking about sex

ash007
hey SuperNova i have no problem talking about sex i mean what is the big deal,
its not wrong to talk about sex.
and 'stabbing eyes out' man u are talking about harming someone that is a worse thing then talking about sex.

mad

shaber
SuperNova has Carnage's temperament! laughing out loud

ash007
yeah he should kept it to him self the stupid git What the f**k?

mook
i saw a TV program about Texas and its attitude to sex before marriage and it was scary.

People were actually telling complete lies to kids such as 'some condoms have holes in', and these were 'good religious people'.

Random_Hero777
I can see how some people would want to wait, seeign how its one of the most special moments you can have with someone. Me personally tho wouldnt wait until being married

SK88728
if you think about it, sex before marrage is something almost everyone, but mormens (cant spell it, but even they do it). so if you dont, your really weird to be honest

shaber
Islam strictly prohibits premarital sex and has well over a billion adherents!

Fire
True Shaber but they do not all follow the Corans(sp) to the letter

ash007
yeah shaber
no offensise to yyou i know some muslims who still have sex beofre marriage

shaber
Rephrase that, no love-making before marriage. Sex they can occasionally do.

lil bitchiness
In almost every religion, sin is something that you can benefit from. erm

Sex is not a sin. thumb up

Sex before marrage should be optional. Go love making!! rock

mechmoggy
I fancy some sex right now, anyone else? big grin

lil bitchiness
Totally. Sex any day or night. rock

mechmoggy
Dammit, Mrs.MM is at work. sad

lil bitchiness
Yeah...but she'll be back...i live half a country away from my....sex thingy...whatsit called....ex-boyfrend, yeah thats the one. thumb up

Tired Hiker
But it's okay for a Father to kill his daughter if her Uncle rapes her because it is looked at as her fault. Yeah, Islam is great.

VengeanceGOD
Ok, whoa. Before you go criticizing religions, take a look around. ALL religions are screwed up in one way or another. None of 'em are perfect, and attacking a religion isn't going to get you anywhere.

mechmoggy
No religious stuff, you know the rules.

thecreeper
please

chicken fish
i stick to tradition.....

Dregh
I'M NOT RELIGIOUS Happy Dance

The Omega

The Alpha
Tired Hiker> The Omega>

Islam strictly prohibits premarital sex but never says to kill a girl who has been raped by anyone. Even if a girl herself allows to mess with her, Islam says to punish her... not to KILL.

mook
do you think its right to punish someone for natural human behaviour?

mook

bridget firth
heheh nice comment from the person that said sex after marriage is rare. i dont actually remember the last time i had real sex, i think i went to the gym more oftern than i had sex the last year or two :sigh:

i saw a prog on the silver ring thing (or something like that) which promotes no sex before marriage. safe sex before marriage is actually a good thing. i mean i know sex isn't the main part of a relationship but speaking as someone who doesn't have any, i'd say it is pretty big even if you are best friends. You need to be with someone who gives you what you need in life, including sex, i mean you need to learn yourself what you need/like and how are you supposed to do that if you Wait until you get married, especially if you both wait.

My nan didn't want me to marry my husband as i had only ever been with him, and she though i should have ermmmmm test driven some others before i bought this one. well 11 years later, i actually agree with her.

sex when you have it, prolly doesn't seem important, but when you dont, it puts a lot of pressure on everything else and everything seems to come down to it (hence the long post)

I dont even want sex, i want to make love with someone i love, loves and respects me, but i also want it to be gooooooooooood!! yes i want good old movie sex :siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh:

*goes off in search of super deluxe rabbit* smile

Tired Hiker
Okay, my bad.

shaber
Actually some guy in the UK did indeed kill his daughter for having premarital sex with an infidel. The UK is pretty backward. Double standards seem to get everywhere, but sometimes are more obvious than others.

The Omega

ash007
hang on shaber first of all the United Kingdom which i love very much is not a backward country its a wonderfull country where people have freedome of speach unlike some other countires which dont
mad
And did you just call everyone in the U.K who isnt a muslim a infidel

thecreeper
what a load of crap

thecreeper
well the uk isnt as backwards as the us where everyone has a gun and the rednecks are more dangerous than a drunk irishman driving a car

masked_killer
england or the rest of the uk for that matter is not a backwards country it is actually one of the most free countries in the world where everyon ehas freedom of speech and are allowed to do whatever they want sexually, as long as they are over the legal age for sex so, i personally feel that shaber is being a di**head just because somone said that islam is too harsh on people living under it control, and shaber if yopu are from an islamic country that is far more backwards than the UK and thgey oppress there people through bullying techniques i.e. death sentences for FEMALE adulterers so dont give me that crap about the UK being backwards

thecreeper
i agree

shaber
Calm down boys and girls, I didn't call the UK a backward country.

In the UK ghettoes all the kids, asian and white alike, have to become muslims to survive. So you could well call the UK a near Islamic state. In about ten years, who knows, it could be so officially. But, as the muslim leader of Wales said, "so what? what does it matter if in ten-twenty years, Europe is Islamic?" It is not as if Islam is repressive to EVERYone. It doesn't have those awkward laws against killing adulterous people who deserve death! Masked killer, if you don't insult Ossama bin Laden then maybe the Thought Police won't come down on you. You do get free speech in the UK, IF you can say and think exactly as you are told! stick out tongue

Bridget Firth, do NOT get a lover, get a divorce instead if you must. Illegitimate children are strictly sub par. We need fewer, not more of them.

SilverFighter
Wow!! That's very interesting! Some sad logic you got there buddy.

ash007
hey shaber i dont mind that the UK in the future does become a islamic state as as we can keep are free democratic law and they will still allow freedom of religion.

thecreeper about the US being dangerous its not entirly true just becuase there are some bad people in the US you can paint everyone there with the same brush

Fire
long live sex before magic

lil bitchiness
laughing out loudlaughing out loudlaughing out loud

Yeeeaaaaaaaahh...that will happen!! laughing out loud

ash007
yeah sex is good stick out tongue stick out tongue stick out tongue

kalantiaw
sex before marriage is all good. hell, sex before anything is a- okay. especially sex before sex...

ash007
but is best to use protection i would want little Ash running around.

So a lesson for all you kids who are thinking about having sex make sure you both belive its the right time and make sure BOTH of yo uuse protection

shaber
Islamic law requires an absolutely totalitarian state. Anything less than that is sub par. When the natives of former Persia imported alot foreigners as a work force, the new Islamic lobby quickly took over - and they didn't keep any Persian traditions. The Ayatollah they set up was a dictator for life - he chucked out all the Persians. One could say it was a shame that the Persian culture had to be abolished, but as the muslim leader of Wales would say, "so what?" I know a man from former Persia, he is nice enough. Granted they were a peaceful people, they had done OK on their own with the oil and that, but doesn't "might make right" as the saying goes?

I think that what we have currently in the UK is vastly inferior to Persia's old regime. An elite of career politicians have taken away power from local levels. They subject the slack jawed public to their lies and spin through every media channel. Freedom of speech is an oddity. As the Philosopher Roger Scruton said, "the larger the bully, the more legitimate his claims..." wacko Happy Dance

masked_killer
so shaber you believe that destroying one person culture because there are fewer of them is correct then, and that forcing someone to live under a rule of a dictator is FINE. Now i really hope i dont have to live under islamic law.

mook
shaber>In the UK ghettoes all the kids, asian and white alike, have to become muslims to survive. So you could well call the UK a near Islamic state.

what are you talking about?
the UK is not even close to being "a near Islamic state".

the only thing you can say is that the uk allows everyone to follow their chosen religion - therefore there are some muslims.
however there is also lots of other religions - eg the korean church near me.

ps where are you from?


omega>
smile

babeyx
i don t mean to be repetitive but its totally up to the individual i also believe that to be in love wit someone you have to know them entirely physically, emotionally and mentally so that means you have to have sex xxxxx

The Omega

mook
The Omega>A culturally accepted delusion

what a good phrase to some up religion - i will use that in the future

yerssot
do remember that talking about religion is a big no no

ash007
yeah we can talk about religion only if we dont upset or be rude to other members

yerssot
that's still a very thin line, ash

finti
hell yes, I dont believe in the marriage as an institution at all. Why get married?

BackFire
Some people like to have a written, official union with the person they love.

ash007
yeah i agree with Backfire

The Omega

yerssot
ah, but I wanted to tell it to others wink

cermiestar
i don't think the issue is sex before marriage, i think the issue is sex before love

lil tears
I beleive in marriage, because it's like the final step, not something you can easily back out of when it's done yes
Like say you are dating, you can just break it off, but if you get married it's more official, and not as easy to end, also before you get married you make a final commitment that this is someone for the rest of your life, so I believe in marriage.
However I don't approve or condemn the idea of sex before marriage it's a personal choice in my eyes, that everyone makes on their own.

BackFire
As I said, some people want to have a official document recognizing their union.

The Omega

BackFire
well omega, no it doesn't, it doesn't add anything to the relationship really, except making it an official binding in the eyes of god, and the country you live in. If anything, marriage is more dangerous because these days, devorces are so rampant that if you get married, you'd better pray your spouce doesn't get tired of you and divorce you and take half of your belongings.

It doesn't add anything, but it just makes some people feel better.

finti
sorry stick out tongue wink

finti
if that is so they really need to look at their relationship, if a spoken word of love aint enough to confirm well maybe they need to reconsider

BackFire
I agree, that's probably why there are so many divorces in this country. People think that because they have that simple document it somehow makes their relationship stronger and fills in all the gaps they have. Which is of course silly.

finti
I agree marriage is for losers big grinbig grinbig grin

iluvorlando
well...i don't think marriage is for losers! I plan to get married some day, and i'm not going to have sex until i do. Part of it is based on my faith, but i don't think i'm allowd to elaborate on that, so i'll just tell ya my other reasons. I believe in saving myself for marriage, cuz for me, one of the biggest gifts i could give my husband is my virginity. Sex before marriage totally takes away from what its meant to be. Its a union b/w a man and a woman, if someone has had sex w/ numerous ppl, it doens't mean much to them anymore, its just something they do for fun or pleasure. But by saving myself, i'm making a statement, that i not only respect myself, but i also have respect for the person i will marry some day.

ash007
yeah i plan to marry my girlfirend but we still have sex i mean we didn't do it as soon as we saw each other but its a gradual process.

finti
you got that all wrong, it aint the sex it self but with whom you have it with that matters. In my younger days it was the thrill of the chase that drove you, and thryng to nail as many as possible, but I guess that is more of a guy thing. When you meet the one that is the "love "off your life you sex does mean a lot to you

iluvorlando
well...i just personally think that sex gets cheapened when its done w/ numerous ppl or just for the thrill of the chase. Our society only sees it as a source of pleasure....but like i said before, its about uniting yourself w/ one other person. The two becoming one, and how can that happen when sex is nothing new...it becomes more of a trophy, or an accomplishment....and i kinda follow you w/ the "love" of your life thing....but thats half my point, I respect that person, and i may not even know them....but yet I want to save myself, and i hope that my future spouse does the same.

finti
too bad if the sex sucks cause you both are so unexperienced, and the fact that it will be hard for you to find a virgin male at all at least where the chemestry between you bith are right

first of all the main reason for sex is for us to reproduce, the affectionate feel of it is something we human has learned to enjoy over time.

The Omega
Yep. Look what you have done, NOW!!!!

Iluvorlando> And sex IS a source of pleasure!! The reproductive side of it became a "bi-product" long ago. Contraception has been around for millenias.

h0ck3yh0rr0r
i dont know if anyone has posted this but is it true that the only organisms that have sexual PLEASURE are us and dolphins...i dont know if this fact is true but many biologists agree on this.

iluvorlando
i'm not trying to say that sex isn't for pleasure....cuz it is. I'm just saying that there is much more too it then what is portrayed in movies and on tv. Yes, obviously its for pleasure...but it goes beyond that, to what i've already said more then once! The union of a man and a woman, one man to one woman, and no one else. It is the true marriage between a husband and wife, the actual wedding day is just for the other ppl watching. So in a nut shell what i'm saying is that there is more to sex then just pleasure, its a giving away of yourself, you leave something w/ that person, and for me, I want that to be one person and one person only. I don't want to have little bits of my heart scattered w/ all these different guys, i want to have my WHOLE heart to give to the love of my life. I'm not gunna disrespect him by saying...well....i guess i didn't love you enough to save my whole heart for you...i've only got a little bit left.......is it so crazy to think that your future partner is gunna want all of you? and not just what happens to be left?

finti
Yeah for those who lives with blinders that might be so, to me that sound like some christian spoof.

iluvorlando
well, i am a christian, and if you don't mind me saying so its not spoof. but I can see that i'm just wasting my time cuz we have two totally different sets of beliefs and morals.....so, i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree......cuz if your as deeply rooted in your beliefs as i am in mine, its gunna take a lot more then a message board to change them.

finti
probably, but if you do as you plan, what if the scenario of divorce come up what then? You have saved your self and given your whole heart to your husband. In case of a divorce whats left of it then?

The Omega

iluvorlando
well, i hate the idea of divorce, but i know its a reality none the less. and the reason i hate it so much, is for the fact you stated finiti, i'd have given all my heart to one man, and then had all of that torn away. I believe that marriage is for life, unless that marriage involves abuse or a partner being unfaithful. I know that that idea seems pretty far out of reach, but I like to set my goals high, and not settle for anything less then all i'm worth. and to omega, my views on sex once again differ from yours. for me, sex is sanctimonious and holy, and thats why waiting till marriage is so important.

silver_tears
Omega- If you had saved yourself and your husband had turned out so bad, you would not have anything to go by so you wouldn't notice a difference What the f**k?

and also would anyone here dump someone they love because they aren't the best in bed?
I mean that's being very superficial erm

iluvorlando
i would never! but like you said, since i'm saving myself, i won't know whats good or whats bad...i'll just know what i have, and thats good enough for me!

Krabs55
People don't always marry the person they the most....sex should be about love and what feels right. And don't you want to have some expericene before marriage so you can always enjoy it.

badkittykitty
I don't mean to argue with you silv but your wrong about dumping someone because they are bad in bed,saying it's superficial..it's not. if you sleep with someone who doen't care about your needs in the bedroom and only full fills his what else would he be selfish about.(just a example)
seriously. I know it sounds bad but a bad lover can send a relationship down the drain. (kissing included)

Fallen Jedi
i don't neccesarily believe you have to be married to have sex but i do believe you should have strong feelings for the person and be in love with them. sex is an act of love, and i don't see the point of having sex with someone that you don't love. yeah, i can understand that sometimes you wanna just let go, but i think sex should be more than that.

yerssot
whole heartly agree with that smile

finti
well one shouldnt always mix love in with the sex thing

Corran
Nope, nothing wrong with a little bedroom aerobics if you are not in love.

G'Day Finti.

ancietwisdom
wink Let's get it on! With my man, of course.

finti
gday corran

silver_tears
I agree, if they don't pay attention to you, and don't work with you that's different yes That's bad on it's own level.

But I'm saying in the case that they are inexperienced, or whatnot and just aren't the best, yet maybe,

I'm sorry if that wasn't clear big grin

ash007
yeah but who is experincied ??

i mean it takes alot time and practise cool

Corran
ahem. wink

BingaBonga
I believe that you should wait to have sex until marriage... that's my plan in life.

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