Batman vs....waite for it..........

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KharmaDog
I really like Batman as a character (although as a whole I am not fond of DC characters). I like that he is a scrapper, that he often uses his brains to beat an opponent, that he is just a regular human, and that he has a dark side.

That being said, I am sick of all the threads that people say batman will win cause he will always find a way. It's like his fans don't have a grip and think tha he can beat everyone from spidey to Dr. Strange to the Silver Surfer.

So if everyone thinks that Bats can beat everyone 'cause he is so smart, I propose to you the ultimate challange... an opponant who's intelligence (and perhaps wealth) rivals the bat.

I let you decide... who would win between.....

BATMAN VS. STEPHEN HAWKING

Linkalicious
one guy made all of those vs. threads where Batman is completely outmatched just because the jerk off wanted to see everyone talk crap on Batman.

Punkyhermy
Batman will not win every fight.But I find it an insult to say ...for instance that Spidey will beat batman?!
Superman can!Not Spiderman!!!!Wonder Woman can!!!

lifeisaglich
The batman is very smart and sneaky this all he has he either learns to live or die. And besides anybody can beat batman it is just that he is an incredible hard guy to beat or for that matter put down.

Swanky-Tuna
So Batman can only defeated by upper tier metahumans?

wrathofachilles
Uh, yeah Spider-Man. You don't know much about Spider-Man do you sport? And yes, you may find that insulting.


And Stephen Hawking would whip his ass!

Evangel94
well if spiderman beats superboy...

Spiderninja008
ok, even thou spidey is my absolute fav superhero ever, lets look at the facts.
Batman: grand master detective, wise, grand master martial artist, tons of gizmos....and hes filthy rich.
Spidey: Spider sense, spider strength (10 tons maximum weight lifting), spider speed (40 times that of a regular human), sticking to walls, super balance, super ups (jumping)...need i go on......spidey dogdes bullets easier than it is for batman (much respect) to jump in his car.

wrathofachilles
Yeah I just don't get that whole "Batman rules all" crap. My father liked Batman back in the late 40s and early 50s because Batman was a thinking-man's hero, but he would never be ignorant enough to claim Batman can win against superior heroes like Spider-Man. Captain America and Daredevil are the Marvel heroes on Batman's level, Spider-Man is just too far above him, simple as that.

wrathofachilles
That Spider-Man vs. Superboy was a fan vote, but Superboy is a loser punk anyway. I have no respect for the 'boy' or 'girl' versions of heroes.

who?-kid
Batman is a cool hero, and he deserves respect. Period. But the big problem is that writers tend to exaggerate him, and they let him fight these powerful enemies that no human, not even Batman, should be able to beat, let alone walk away alive.

I never liked that "I am the Batman so I will find a way" crap. He's the best "only human" hero ever, no doubt about it (maybe with the exception of Zorro wink ), but he is not on the same level than for example Spider-Man.

Facts don't lie.

And Batman vs Stephen Hawking : Hawking only has to throw Batman in a black hole, end of story.

wrathofachilles
"Batman would find a way" to get out, lol.

Swanky-Tuna
Even Kid Flash, Wally West, who later became regular Flash?

lifeisaglich
So to be a superhero you do not need to grow in power or intelligence. You have to stay on spot till you die. Right?

Because this is what you guys are saying. Since as he is human there is no other place for him to go, right?

Becasue He is human and he cannot break the human limit and To do this he has to have some kind of superpower?

Or you guys just ticted because he can do alot of things without the need for superpowers?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you guys are killing me with laughter. But Please do go on.

Punkyhermy
LOL!

crazyspinz
steven halking is in a wheel char, batman could just like push him down a hill

Havoc470
lol, batman takes steven hawking in his bat-plane (or any of his other bat-transportations) takes him to the nearest hill just to push him off of it

anyways i think he broke the human limit with his trillions of dollars and billions of amazing gadgets

lifeisaglich
Batman is not going to fight steven Hawkin becasue they are both smart men. Together they can destroy the world before anyone is the wiser. YES THAT IS CORRECT YOU DID NOT READ THIS WRONG.
IF THEY CAN DESTROY THE WORLD, WHY NOT DESTROY UNIVERSE. WHO IS GOING TO STOP THEM?
APART FROM GOD

Swanky-Tuna
The inanimate carbon rod.

Havoc470
damn, swanky-tuna is on the money

lifeisaglich
.

Nice I did not think this guy will be on the planet. Any chance it might be persuaded to join the destructive duo smile

Ytaker
Is Steven's IQ high enough to convince batman that he doesn't exist?

wrathofachilles
Stephen's IQ is above 200.

As for Kid Flash, I don't know enough about him, I just mean I hate the Superboys and Batgirls and Supergirls and Spiderwomen, etc. They did a great job coming up with Wonder Woman and Catwoman all by themselves, why they can't create more unique female characters I don't know. I don't particularly like child characters anyway, just like I loathe child actors.


Except Haley Joel Osmont. That kid's got it.

Swanky-Tuna
The thing I don't like about Batman is he's too good at everything. He's an expert in most martial arts. He has degrees out the wazoo. He runs a massive company. He works out intensively. He does extensive detective work. Not only does time for all of this overlap but it leaves no room for sleep.

FrothByte
batman's writers just exaggerate batman toooo much. let me give you a few examples:

1.) batman mastered what, about 50 forms of martial arts and he is only 30 or something? 1 martial art discipline could take almost a lifetime mastering, can you tell me how batman mastered all those martial arts while growing up and managing wayne enterprises? the only explanation i have for you is this: EXAGGERATION

2.) batman fights crime all night, finds time to work out, finds time to create new gizmos, finds time to manage wayne enterprises, hangs out with jla, flirts with girls, researches on criminals... well let me tell you, there are only 24 hrs in each day. when the hell does this man sleep?!! again, EXAGGERATION of his character. humanly impossible.

3.) batman is a billionare. what the hell is wayne enterprises suppose to be doing business with to earn that much money?

4.) asides from his sidekicks, batman has only got his butler as company in his house. who the hell helps him make all his gadgets like the batplane? don't tell me he's an engineer and carpenter too!

Ytaker

Tron
F*ck Steven Hawking!! Lets see Batman try to tangle with Stan Lee!

Havoc470
im not a big batman fan, i dont really consider him human because nothing's really human about him, except he has pain when he gets hurt...which even wolverine has

as for him skipping levels in Aikido, im in aikido, my sensei is 49 and he's a fifth dan, been in it since he was 25 and went to his dojo and studied with his sensei every single day till he was 41 and his sensei died, which would make it impossible to accomplish what bruce wayne accomplished while also learning ninjutsu, muay thai, karatedo, and a number of other martial arts

lets just say its not called martial art for nothing

Gregory
Didn't he have a mechanic? Yes, he did, but the name of Harold ... mute dwarf, used to work for the Penguin. Before he had Harold (and since he lost them, I suppose), he used Wayne Tech technology. None of this information is terribly obscure.

To Whom It May Concern: We have records of people composing symphanies at age three or something, but when someone shows a similiar degree of talent with martial arts, we scream that nobody could do that, because we couldn't, or because nobody we know could do that? Pff. Still, I think the "Batman has mastered every form of martial arts/fifty forms of martial art/whataver" thing may be a fanboyism; I've read hundreds of comics, and I haven't seen it stated anywhere. He may well have lifted techniques from that many styles, but that's not the same thing.

Havoc470
actually its in the comics, i cant believe you have read a batman comic and never read about that

sure i cant be a martial arts master, but with all the martial arts its just impossible for a human to become a master in 50 of them, and yes someone composed a famous symphony at three, but not a famous symphony for 50 other different types of music also

a martial art is something that has to come with discipline, time, and for some complete knowledge of ones self and the persuit of all kinds of religion

i dont know about bruce wayne mastering that many though

Ponem
*comes in*
Hello! Lets set some facts straight! wink

1) batman does not know ALL the martial arts, nor has he in anyway mastered more then 10 styles. The problem with Batman is that he has a nasty habbit of choosing which specific branch he trains in.
besides him beeing a master at Hapkido/KungFu/NinJutusu there really arnt that many you call mention, what? Like the great Batman is gonna brag about ****ing Judo? *laughs*
Then, did everyone forget he's a ninja! Ninja's are just, in general, very bad-ass, and batman just happend to be trained by one of the most bad-ass Ninja's in the Batman Universe, namely; Ra's. he isnt some kind of superninja or anything, he is most probably the best ninja in the world...But in no way is he some kind of super power T_T.

2) Intelligence...Batman is smart, but thats about it. Some call him a Genius, but those fammiliar with the Vrox Drill's out there alongside Reed will know that Batmans inteligence is above average, at best. He is just another guy who happens to be good at what he does. namely; Detective stuff....

3) Most of his stuff comes straight from the Wayne Enterprises, created by this nifty fellow called Lucius Fox, Batman just "enhanced" most of it, and even that was done by a mechanic and not ol bats himself. Seeing how the mech is dead, i dont know how batman keeps upgrading his stuff everynow and then...But i do rememeber Alfred f*cking around with some stuff, so its very likely Alfred knows his way around in the cave...

Batman is just serieusly over-rated, but thats about it...

Havoc470
well there we go, ponem basically just set it straight

of course even ninjutsu, hapkido, and kungfu being mastered is a task i think is a little exaggerated, mostly because ninjutsu is something i read the most books about, with the authors being the leading masters of the martial art.......but this is a comic book and thats what basically makes it fun, i still dont really consider batman a human being in the sense of you or me

Punkyhermy
GO GREGORY!!!
My...I must say...how is it that YOU know everything about batman?! confused wink

Havoc470
he mastered three martial arts, i mean its even in the comics when he goes to japan, and meets ra's master..............

and harold died a long time ago lol

Swanky-Tuna
Who the crap is Phoebe?

It still doesn't add up. For me, the "most realistic because he's human" hero is the least realistic because he's human.

Havoc470
wow....i never thought of it like that

you just put me in a state of clarity, are you into confucianism or something?

Punkyhermy
Whaddya mean batman's abilities are too great to be realistic!?

He just works too damn hard!!!!
He enrolled in martial arts classes since he was 8!!!he is 35 something now...NATURALLY he'll be an expert...what's so unbelievable about that?!

And man!does he have flaws...

Swanky-Tuna
Even if there is a way to manage all Batman's activities, it hurts the concept of a normal man being a hero because he's not a normal man anymore. He's a multiple extremely gifted person with ungodly will and mental fortitude.

Punkyhermy
Well...he IS gifted somewhat to a genuis level.But is is normal in the sense that he has no 'super' abilities.Nornal in the sense that is the best a human can be.

Havoc470
this guy is jackie chan, steven hawkings, bill gates, jet li, and evil kaneival

if he's human then why do i have to clasify him as a bunch of other humans combined, i think they just call him a human to somehow relate to people, where as sometimes i see wolverine more human than batman

Punkyhermy
That just means he relates to the above mentioned folk.Indicating that he is indeed very human!

Swanky-Tuna
He's *a* human but all of his abilities make him inhuman.

Punkyhermy
The fact that he manages to do a couple of stuff ONLY humans can do stresses that fact that he is VERY human...he's not doing anything...impossible or out of the ordinary...have faith in detremination and will power...that's all he has that can be catagorised as 'super'

Swanky-Tuna
He can apparently easily sneak up on Superman.

Never
Hawking cannot even "throw" his damn voice.

LMAO @ Batman's intellect being "above average." It is 220.

Punkyhermy
Really?I never knew...

As for him sneaking up on Superman...well it's not the first time they have dumbed down Supes powers...can't RAELLy blame bats...

Never
LoL...

It has nothing to do with them "dumbing down" Superman's powers.

Batman has successfully cloaked himself from Martian Manhunter. Telepathically, heat signatures...everything.

Put it this way - if Batman does not want to be found, he will not be found.

But if he wants to find YOU...

Punkyhermy
Agreed.

Havoc470
i really dont consider him a human being, for the simple fact that i cant relate to him at all...except for revenge which i could relate to alot of characters for

im not blindingly rich, i dont have much technology besides this comp and my dvd player, my parents werent killed, i didnt go to japan, i dont have a butler...........its completely inhuman, as for determination lol...i think that went out the window after he's had bane completely cripple his spine and a ton of other enemies breaking his bones, thats like saying with enough determination you could beat the inanimate carbon rod

Swanky-Tuna
I just don't like the character. I don't like his ridiculous feats.

Punkyhermy
uumm...the only reason he did recover from that spinal injury was because of sheer will power...

wrathofachilles
1: Batman's IQ is NOT 220. That's absurd. If you made up that number, you need to look at what the quotient levels are to have a better understanding of what they mean. If a Batman writer came up with it, he has proven he doesn't know the quotient levels and has no understanding of what they mean.

2. You can't overcome a spinal injury through 'willpower' alone. That storyline was as bad as a soap opera. More evidence Batman writers are so unintelligent, which is the only thing that makes Batman appear intelligent.

Never

who?-kid
Well, I don't know how high his IQ is. Don't care either. IQ is overrated : take any IQ-test and only a very small portion of your real intelligence, of your true potential will be tested.

Most IQ-tests are always the same. But the true intellectual level of a person can NOT be tested by some (mostly mathematical) tests that take only half an hour - if that - to complete.

You want to test somebodies smartness ? Fine. You can only obtain a rough idea of his intelligence capacities by talking with him about lots of different subjects, by making him do spelling exercises, mathematical exercises, logical stuff, political knowledge, foreign languages, geography, art and litterature, astronomy, gastronomy (why not), technology, religion and so on.

After a few days, you will have a vague idea of the true intelligence of the person. Not by filling in some stupid IQ-test.

So if Batman has an IQ of 220 : who cares ?

Lol. Damn right smile.

Havoc470
i simply dont consider him to be a human, which explains why theres no one like him on earth....but as i said before its a comic book and thats what gives it the meaning

imo, no one in DCU is more human than frank castle

Havoc470
if that were an IQ test then einstein would be proven retarded

Gregory
I think it's pretty obvious that you've never actually read that storyline; if you did, than you're babbling. Is it so unrealistic that Batman continued to function in a wheelchair, when hundreds of thousands of people do that exact same thing in the real world? He continued to function as a detective in the wheelchair; maybe your theory is that when people are put in wheel chairs, they become retarted and shouldn't be able to think as well as they used to? If you actually read the comics, you'd know that Batman succeeded by calling in a lot of his allies to do the things he could no longer do; first the Justice League Task Force, then the Red Hood, then Alfred to impersonate the Batman, for heaven's sake.

If you're complaining about how he was healed, you're just being stupid. Have you forgotten that this is a comic book universe, with thousands of metas and supernatural beings? The wonder isn't that Batman was healed, it's that Oracle hasn't managed to be.

Punkyhermy
No...Oracle is great just the way she is...I wouldn't want her to heal...

who?-kid
Primo : says who ? Einstein was a pretty smart guy all around.

Secundo : even if he came out retarded, so what ? That only shows (like I said) how vague those tests are.

Having a high IQ doesn't mean much. In fact, it means very little.

Never
To quote someone else: "That's absurd." Certainly entitled to your opinion regarding IQ tests, as mistaken as it might be.

"Test someone's smartness?" What? Hmm...was Gaugin "smart?" Percy Bysse Shelley? William Shakespeare? Dante? Montaigne? Voltaire? Miles Davis? Bobby Fisher? Charles Mingus, John Coletrane, Bill Gates?

At any rate, the 220 IQ rating is indicative of Batman's genius level IQ (anyone care to dispute THAT?); and if you are questioning Batman's IQ, you have a LOT of reading to do.

DCU? Frank Castle? Unless I am mistaken (and I doubt it), Frank Castle is The Punisher? Not a DCU character.

who?-kid
You're forgetting George Bush, Pamela Anderson and Al Bundy.

I think it's you who needs to read a bit more : read the posts for example. Did I question Batman's intelligence ? Hm ? Did I question his high IQ ? Didn't think so.

Only said that IQ isn't everything, to say the least. I said it before and I'll say it again : those IQ tests only measure a small part of somebodies potential. Nothing more.

Never
1. Did I say, quote, that you questioned his IQ, since we are challenging reading comprehension? Err NO. Notice the big fat word "IF" in the sentence "IF you are challenging his IQ?" Your phrasing was rather dubious; it was difficult to tell whether or not you were dismissing it as trivial considering you dismissed ALL IQ ratings as trivial.

2. Um, IQ tests do not measure ANY part of someone's potential. They are used to measure one's GENERAL cognitive abilities relative to one's AGE group. Even so, it is a very GENERAL indicator considering opinions of what one's general knowledge at a particular age vary.

3. Not surprising that you missed the point in my naming Mingus, Gaugin, et al. Mathematical/scientific genius is NOT the only type of genius that exists. Musical, artistic, interpersonal, linguistic - these are ALL examples. Society (in America, anyway), for whatever reason, gives one type much more weight than the other.

4. Who EVER said that "IQ is everything?" If you have zero work ethic, zero resourcefulness, zero drive, zero ambition, zero initiative - who CARES how smart you are? Point is that Batman is brilliant ALL the way around -- mathematical, scientific, tactical, psychological, hence them deciding to give him such a profoundly high IQ.

who?-kid

Havoc470
im talking about comics in general, i mean this topic was normally about batman vs. steven hawkings -_-

Havoc470
i wasnt going against you, im agreeing that those IQ tests are stupid

who?-kid
Sorry, my mistake.

Never
No you did not. You said, quote:



Nothing about cognition, retaining information, nothing. Ohhhhhhh. You IMPLIED that, right? Right.



LoL. Where did I say that they gave Batman a high IQ "because he's a good psychologist?" I said that, QUOTE:



When will you quote me ACCURATELY? Did I SAY that those were part of a "regular IQ test" - psychology, for example? Noooooooo, I said that different IQ types are MEASURED - for example, QUOTE:





Where did I dispute this? Did I say that they are absolute? No, I said that IQ tests are, QUOTE:



GENERAL.



Um, WRONG. Batman is human. Homo sapiens. Homo superior (as Magneto references them) does not exist in the DC Universe. He is not a kryptonian, daxamite, anything - he is HUMAN in the DC Universe, regardless of your opinion of him.

Heh, that was Frank Miller's ENTIRE point in "Dark Knight Returns" and "Dark Knight Strikes Back" - or did you NOT read them? That he was HUMAN (hence him getting his @ss handed to him by the mutant in that first fight); that he was OLDER (hence him having to scale that building much slower than usual); that he was SLOWER. The challenge is to use his BRAIN to overcome his HUMAN, physical limitations. He's not Deathstroke who is able to track Flash visually and shoot him in the buttock. HELLO?

"An important part of the mythos is that Batman, unlike Superman for example, does not possess any superhuman abilities. >>>>>>>>>>>>>He is a normal human<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< that has elevated himself to near-superhuman status through discipline and training."

http://www.campusprogram.com/reference/en/wikipedia/b/ba/batman_1.html

Notice the arrows for emphasis? HE IS A NORMAL HUMAN.



More dubious phrasing. "True genius?" What the hell is that? Tony Starks is a "true genius." Victor Von Doom is a "true genius." I doubt if you have read Grant Morrison's relaunch of JLA wherein Batman's genius is PLAINLY stated, hence all of his naysayers (hmm..."haters?"wink referencing him as "BatGod."

Regardless, Batman's IQ is 220, he possesses a genius-level intellect (DETECTIVE genius, master of forensic evidence), and he is HUMAN.

who?-kid
Too easy to counter your mistakes, but I don't have enough time, so I will (for the moment) only say this



Heh, nice try, but did YOU not read them ? That big ugly dude with sharp teeth was no mutant, just the leader of a gang. What a mistake to make wink.

First time Batman lost, second time he won.

Never
Typical copout considering I slice, dice, and butter your @ss thrice in every "debate" we engage in.

Of COURSE I read it. Talk about "too easy." For your FURTHER edification:

"Bruce Wayne appears to be killed in a car race, only to have survived. It is the tenth anniversary of the last sighting of Batman - and according to a poll, most teenagers consider him to be a myth. James Gordon is still the Commissioner of Police, although a new gang, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the Mutants, have issued a death threat against him."

Yes, he was a MUTANT. The name of the GANG was THE MUTANTS. You always misread my posts and go skipping off all giddy, thinking that you have issued a scintillating rebuttal.

Get real. Haha, does being a CRIP gang member mean that you are actually a CRIPPLE?

Swanky-Tuna
You don't really slice, dice, or rub asses with butter really. You just say something and refuse to accept things from the outside.

Punkyhermy
Yeah...most comic book fans don't want to accept the fact that batman is only human and still stands with those superpowered freaks...they find it insulting probably that a human can equal their oh-so-great superhumans!

OR

They simply don't have faith in us Homosapieans.

Swanky-Tuna
Yeah, he's human. But that links him to some kind of "realistic" level that he's crossed, spit on, then destroyed with prep time. For all his knowledge and abilities, he might as well be Martian Manhunter jr.

Havoc470
i dont accept the fact that batman is human, i mean in his own comics fighting joker and all those characters are fine, but when they start having him fighting darkseid (jeph loeb and michael turners current batman/superman issue)and getting eaten by a dragon and surviving......that's just a little crazy, him being in similar situations have happened quite a bit too

but nothings wrong with batman not being human, i dont see him as a human i still see him as a cool character...just because i dont believe he's a human doesnt mean i dont have much faith in homosapiens, its just what you said it is A COMIC BOOK, and basing faith in homosapiens on a comic book is a little too much imo

wrathofachilles
Sport, I know a great deal more about IQs than you, I assure you. It is very difficult to determine the IQs of geniuses in the past, so that statement is as accurate as whatever website you got it from or whatever high school teacher informed you about it. I don't know what the hell you're talking about regarding the non-Earth Batman, but I'm talking about Batman, the Batman. Bruce Wayne. Again, he's a comic book character, so the writers can assign whatever number they want to him, but that doesn't mean they know how to back it up. There are plenty of brilliant heroes whose IQ's have never been revealed. Why? Because the writers have their OWN IQ's high enough to clue them in to how ridiculous that would be; you have to back up the claim you make for your characters. As for real-world quotients, I'm not the one who brought them up, I'm just saying Batman has never proven his intellect to be on the level of such scientists as Stephen Hawking. This was back when someone came up with a Batman vs. Stephen Hawking fight.

wrathofachilles
He stands with low-level superpowered 'freaks.' I understand the fanboy crap, or fangirl. I happen to be that way with Thor and a few others, but if you actually think Batman can go toe-to-toe with Superman and others, you're out of your mind. Perhaps the reason many don't have faith in homo sapiens is due to the fact that we have known homo sapiens all our lives and have seen what little they are capable of doing against gods.

Paola
keep it cool, people

wrathofachilles
You always yell at me, but I swear I don't start it. If someone attacks me, I have no choice but to tear them apart. Unless you do it first smile

Havoc470
i think comic book fans accept the fact that batman is a comic book character, and it doesnt matter whether they think he's human or he isnt, either way his comics are being read and life goes on

who?-kid

Never
You will not be the first to stick his foot in his mouth.



No KIDDING, hence my saying that Goethe's IQ was ESTIMATED (hello..."estimated?"wink to be 210.



NO KIDDING, and they do not NEED to "back it up," now DO they? He's a FICTIONAL genius whose high IQ they attempt to validate via his myriad shrewd business moves, inventions, instances of tactical brilliance, and detective work. Does it HAVE to be "accurate" in the "REAL WORLD?" No, it only has to be RELATIVELY accurate in the COMIC BOOK world, so how can YOU say that it is "absurd" when you have absolute zero clue what they are basing it on? Did they say that he is roughly as smart as "insert x real world individual here?" NO.



So?



Conjecture. Is that why Grant Morrison determined that Batman 1M's IQ is 1040?



Oh YES he has. Read more Batman, respond less in this thread. Read Morrison's interpretation of the Batman character, first and foremost.

Never
Considering you have zero clue about our history of darts and laurels your comment holds VERY little weight.

Never
So why did you open your big mouth and type, QUOTE:



Because, AS USUAL, you MISINTERPRETED a statement and yeehawed your high horse in here attempting to refute it. Odd...why would I say that "homo superior" as Marvel knows it does not exist in the DCU and then turn around and say that he was a MUTANT (pursuant to Marvel's definition)? Duh.



See above. Take foot out of mouth. DCU HAS no mutants, so why on earth would Batman be fighting one unless he was in a crossover...and "Dark Knight Returns" is no crossover? Duh.



More wasted keystrokes.



See above.



Hahaha, because YOU thought you found a mistake I am supposed to heed your advice on how to respond in a thread? sick



I know what a truly ignorant individual is. Would you like a mirror?



LoL, what a blow hard. After the comic book creators - and anyone halfway familiar with the character - claimed that he is human, you keep chopping wood and claim that he is not. Black Panther is much more resourceful than Batman is.

But he's not "human" either, because YOU might say he is not. Picture that.



Did he "beat up" Bane? Talk about "homo exaggeratus."



Actually Sherlock Holmes is. Do you REALLY read comic books?



So?


So?



So?



So? He's still human.

Havoc470
three posts in a row, youre only proving swankty-tuna was right

Punkyhermy
I believ batman is no inferior to Superman or any other superhuman!!!!!Wait Superman isn't EVEN human!!!
Batman is in fact SUPERIOR in the sense that being only a mere mortal, human he hands their asses to them!


GO BATSY!GO BATSY!!GO BATSY!!!!! Happy Dance

Never
Three posts to address three separate individuals, or I guess you missed that in your haste to respond? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Havoc470
i read it all -_-...and i did'nt miss that at all

lifeisaglich
Quote from FrothByte

batman's writers just exaggerate batman toooo much. let me give you a few examples:

1.) batman mastered what, about 50 forms of martial arts and he is only 30 or something? 1 martial art discipline could take almost a lifetime mastering, can you tell me how batman mastered all those martial arts while growing up and managing wayne enterprises? the only explanation i have for you is this: EXAGGERATION

So batman being a prodigy those not mean anything?

Quote from FrothByte
2.) batman fights crime all night, finds time to work out, finds time to create new gizmos, finds time to manage wayne enterprises, hangs out with jla, flirts with girls, researches on criminals... well let me tell you, there are only 24 hrs in each day. when the hell does this man sleep?!! again, EXAGGERATION of his character. humanly impossible.

You see this is why he as luxious fox help himout from time to time. And there is some thing called a planner.

Quote from FrothByte
3.) batman is a billionare. what the hell is wayne enterprises suppose to be doing business with to earn that much money?

Well when you are a prodigy there is nothing you can't do that is when you are batman.When you are a good business man that is what tends to happen. You become very rich

Quote from FrothByte
4)asides from his sidekicks, batman has only got his butler as company in his house. who the hell helps him make all his gadgets like the batplane? don't tell me he's an engineer and carpenter too!

Ok I will not tell you he is an engineer and a very fine carpenter. Come on How do you thing he is able to come up will all the stuff that he uses. Oh let me guess he bought them in a store. sure.......

lifeisaglich
Batman does what he does because of his training. And he is the most human superhero out there. And driven by pure vengenance and a sence of justice. his style. He also he also has a big family to take care of him.

Havoc470
i think human superhero is kind of contradicting

imo he isnt as human as the punisher, although he is from another universe but im talking about Marvel and DC comics in general

lifeisaglich
What do you mean?

And he is every bit as human as the punisher.

Havoc470
i think the punisher is a true human, with the same vengeance as batman, without the billions of dollars, but thats from my point of view

i was just joking around with the human superhero thing, i was trying to say that a human cant be a superhero, but he can be a normal hero

Swanky-Tuna
He's human... but with his abilities, he's the least feasible.

lifeisaglich
He started training at a yound age. A lot of time to be perfect at what ever he does

wrathofachilles
Do you understand 'superior?' Superior means he's better, higher, more powerful as a hero. He is not. He doesn't 'hand asses' to more power powerful superhumans like Superman. Holding a piece of kryptonite doesn't mean he 'hands his ass' to him. I can beat Superman while holding a piece of kryptonite. It's the kryptonite that weakens him, not the individual holding it.

Havoc470
how old was batman when he started training?

FrothByte
a prodigy is someone who is extremely good in doing a certain aspect in life, maybe one or two. someone who is an extreme prodigy might be able to be extremely good in about 3 areas... but that's about it.

someone who is a prodigy in martial arts, engineering, science, business, carpentry, detective work, flirting with girls, earning money, jumping off high places, going toe to toe with super beings.... well that's not a human prodigy no more. what you have there is a demi god.

Batman will NEVER be human because he's a human that does superhuman feats that are impossible for humans to accomplish. I started kickboxing at 6 and im still not a master at it.

shaolin monks go to the temple at what, 7? they live their whole lives training there and still no one gets to master what bruce wayne did.

Havoc470
you cant be a prodigy in martial arts in general, but one or two martial arts maybe

im agreeing with your post

Linkalicious
IT'S.

A.

COMIC.

BOOK.



I don't see you guys giving Superman sh!t for what he's able to do. Everything Batman does is HUMAN, he just covers a large enough spectrum for it to seem inhuman.

Havoc470
i said this a few pages ago

FrothByte
that's because superman isn't human. he's a superpowered alien that's able to do superpowered things.
but batman is human. despite all the training and talents and money and will power and discipline he has... he is still only human. and being human has its limits. what pisses me off is that batman writers don't seem to want to apply these human limits to batman.

but regardless to what the writers wrote, i was still pretty much entertained by batman comics... thats untill i started reading the posts of the bat fans here. the way they talk about batman makes me want to puke. yes yes, batman is human biologically... but that's all he's human in.

Linkalicious
He got his back broken by Bane.

Doesn't get much more human than that.

FrothByte
and yet he still managed to eventually heal and get back to the crime fighting scene. one would assume that after getting your back broken you either die, get comatose, get paralyzed, get crippled, or merely never heal to 100% again. but i guess yes, its possible to heal from that, especially if you have bruce's money, but having a formerly broken back should have made him more susceptible to back injury later on.

im not that much of a bat fan, so im gonna ask... how long did it take for bats to recover from his broken back? what did it take for him to recover?

Linkalicious
that was completely and utterly do to fan choice.

Why did Superman come back to life? Fan Choice.

you can't kill the classics....it just doesn't make the fans happy.

Havoc470
i really doubt any batman fans would want him to never recover lol

same thing for superman fans

same thing in the witchblade comics, they voted for two characters to die, and it was the least important characters at the time, not much witchblade fans wanted sarah to die, although someone else would inherit the witchblade, anyway this is off-topic lol

i really dont think there should be a problem with batman fans thinking he isnt a human, but the batman fans will keep backing up bruce's humanism and other batman fans will try to say he isnt, either way theyre batman fans lol

Linkalicious
I don't really collect Batman comics...actually the last one I have is Batman 500...but I'd most certainly say I'm a fan.

The guy doesn't web sling, doesn't fly, run uber fast, or lift cars....he's a human being.

Every bit as much of a human being as Daredevil.

Havoc470
i dont consider daredevil human either, i mean blind people dont get eyes capable of picking up sound levels...

i think i agree with bruce campbell saying sure batman is a human but how many people do you actually know that have billions of dollars, and if Ash says it, i agree

as opposed to spiderman having all these amazing powers, but still scrounging up money to have a crappy apartment and how being spiderman effects his relationship with the people around him

Gregory
Exactly! Being human, Bruce was confined to a wheelchair for the entire Knightquest story arc. How he was healed had nothing to do with him being human or nonhuman--it had to do with him living in a comic book universe where people have options they don't usually have; in Batman's case, find a meta with healing talents.



I'm not sure how many months in real-time it took for him to be healed--I think it was a while. The actual healing process, being supernatural, was instantanious, I think, but Batman--again, being only human, with muscels that atrophy and skills that decay with nonuse--had to extensively retrain after being confined to a wheelchair for so long.



I know more rich people (two, where "rich" is defined as "having enough money to live in a mansion"wink than I know people with spider powers. And if you've ever read a Batman comic, you know that being Batman drastically effects his relationship with those around him, too.

Gregory

Havoc470
two, in your entire life, and having a mansion is not rich compared to having an estate and a huge booming business, and i meant although he has the powers of a spider, he has alot more real problems

and i've read alot of batman comics and i dont really think his relationship with people is real from my point of view, im not trying to be un-even here but thats the way i've always seen it

Gregory
1) Well, I'm only twenty years old, and I live in a little town; billionairs do not congrigate in Williamsport
3) If by estate you mean grounds (a tennis court and pool and what-not), they have them, too.
4) By contrast, I only know one person who is struggling to make ends meet, and I only know him by sight, and he still owns his house, rather than scrounging for money to rent an appartment.

I always here about Spiderman's real-world problems. I guess that's true. I mean, who among us hasn't had a dead girlfriend shoved into his refridgerator at some point in his life?

who?-kid
Yeah, damn right. At least some other people understand what I have been saying for a long time.

I like Batman and I respect him, but I go berserk whenever somebody says :"Ooh, Batman, the rich prodigy / playboy living in a mansion with a butler / chairman of a very large company / best detective / member of the JLA / amazing inventor /amazing and almost unbeatable crimefighter / master of dozens martial arts with his ever analyzing mind, I love him because he's so human."

What the... ?!

It's only a comic book character, so I have absolutely no problem with his almost perfect abilities. But don't tell me he's just a man like you and me, because he's NOT. Writers tend to exaggerate him, and it will take lots of years to convince the Batman fans of this fact.

Spider-Man is, character-wise, a lot more human than Batman.

Swanky-Tuna
Superman has a condition that lets the magic comic logic flow in.

Flash: I got hit by lightning and now I run faster than light. Go nuts!

Cyclops: I absorb sunlight that opens a hole into an energy dimension though my eyes... because I'm a mutant! More power to ya!

Wonder Woman: The gods gave me my powers and they oddly all look like they're for killing Superman so all 7 girls that read my comics can be proud! Whatever.

Batman: I'm just a man. But I'm going to be the absolute best at everything and have an inconceivably rare collection of conditions that let me manage all this without going insane. Also, I know everything. Is that okay? No.

Gregory
Yes. What with being a comic book and everything.

who?-kid
Tough crowd. Lousy replies stick out tongue .

Havoc470
yeah and who among us havent gotten our spine snapped by a man with ariticial strength, this is my point...they're comic books and you cant relate to that part of a comic book, but you can relate to very few of their problems, and imo marvel in general have thousands of characters that to me relate more than batman the human billionaire/playboy, blah blah blah

i dont know where you live, but i see people struggling with paying their rent (who by the way dont have superhero alter-ego's) all the time, it happens to everyone

Gregory
I'd like to point out here that Batman is just one of a long line of exagerated humans. Nobody complains that Nero Wolfe isn't human, because of the range of his knowledge, or that Fu Manchu isn't human because he knows so much about so many obscure things, or that James Bond isn't human, because of all the absurd stunts he pulls, or that Indiana Jones isn't human, because he survived being dragged by a truck without any sort of injury ... sure Batman's exagerated, but so what? Of all the exagerated characters of literature, why is Batman the one people have decided can't be exagerated or he "isn't human?"

And I'll be blunt; as long as the characters are interesting, I'm not too worried about "relating to them." I have to be able to empathise for them, sure, but not put myself in their shoes. As it happens, I can relate to Batman better than Spider Man, not because I'm similiar to him economically, but because our personalities are much closer.

Havoc470
because this topic isnt called "james bond vs. wait for it....." or any of the other names you've previously mentioned, its about batman and thats why we're all discussing him

i dont put myself in anyones shoe's either, i just read a comic and think "that's happened to me alot" which isnt anything amazing, but its happened to me reading alot of marvel comics lol

who?-kid
I use my fingers to type, not my mouth.

I misinterpreted jack shit, sonny. It was you who wrote Batman was fighting the mutant, not me. It's not because you know a bit of the DC-universe and the Batman stories, you must assume other people are also familiar with them.

If I didn't know any better, Batman was really fighting a mutant (homo superior, also known as homo Who?-Kidianus) instead of only the leader of a gang called The Mutants.

If you say so.

No, I only cut out the pictures.

Again, it's you who should really read more carefully : I said Batman is the best detective of his time. And then you say something retarded like : Actually Sherlock Holmes is.

Popquiz : since when is Sherlock Holmes considered as "from the same time as Batman ?" Hm ? I wrote from his time, not "the best detective ever." You do realize that Batman certainly wasn't even born when Sherlock Holmes died ? He died at the end of the 19th century !

But still, according to you Batman is not the greatest detective of his time, but Batman. Sure, and Picasso was not the greatest painter of his time, but Leonardo da Vinci.

Two remarks

a. I know Batman met Sherlock Holmes once (maybe more, don't know and don't care) in an old ! comic, and back then he was already over a hundred years old. If we are very kind, we can say that Holmes was 70 or more years older than Batman. That's a bit to much too compare Batman and Holmes and to decide who's the greatest detective of Batman's time. Holmes was long retired when Bruce Wayne's parents were still alive.

And I even don't know of this story belongs in the Batman-continuity...

b. Holmes is not the best detective. Poirot is much better.

Havoc470
elementary my dear Never....i had to say it

Punkyhermy
Being filthy rich is not realistic?!
Being smart isn't realistic?
And SURE if Mr. Gates was as rich as a teenager as Bruce Wayne is, he would also be in top physical condition.And what is so UNBELIEVABLE about that?!
THAT is Bill Gates!!!!

Linkalicious
no, your logic is flawed there punky.

Bill Gates poor physical condition is not due to the amount of money he had as a teenager. Bill Gates isn't an athlete because he spends all of his time using his vast computer intelligence in order to do the same day to day things Bruce does....only Bruce somehow manages to fight crime and work out extensively in the exact same day.

still....a lot of what he does is from home. If not home...Wayne Enterprises (or whatever)

But unlike Bill Gates...you don't hear about Bruce traveling the country much on business.

Punkyhermy
Bruce doesn't do all that stuff that people think he does.He is hardly ever at his office!!!!!Mr Fox arranges and takes care of everything for him. Aside attending some social events and trying to keep up that playboy image, he does what he does all day.Sitting in his cave going through criminal files and records!

Havoc470
*whisper* i think you should add working out *whisper*

Punkyhermy
oh yeah and works out!

who?-kid
Of course that's realistic, but you don't get it, Punkyhermy. The problem lots of people (including me) have with Batman is that he's too perfect and too good at almost everything to be believable. Even for a comic character.

Nobody likes a mr. Perfect.

Havoc470
::thumbs up:: good job (to punkyhermy)

Punkyhermy
TOO PERFECT?!
Dear Batsy?!
laughing out loud laughing

No Way!!!
He is the embodiment of....imperfection! He is rude, and cold and mean to what 'family' he has. H edoesn't know a thing about treating children.He is an obsessed psycopath! Trying to accoplish something he CAN'T EVER! He treates women like shit! He selfishly uses them!!He actually WANTS a bad image out there!And he chases crazy people on streets!!U call that perfect?!

He has given up life and any true sense of what living really is. Given up life to accahive an impossible goal...THAT is imperfect. roll eyes (sarcastic)

lifeisaglich
QUOTE FROM FrothByte


He healed quite well simply because of his training. How do you think someone without the extensive training that batman went through is going to do when something like this happens.
Batman is the best the world of humans has to offer. Started at a young age, with is training and branched out to every known source of information. You are filthy rich that is how he was able to know so much becasuse he can get anything he wants.

Who amongst you says no to pure hard cash??

Swanky-Tuna
I suppose good martial arts training could cause your cells to defy science.

Seriously though, who or what healed Batman's spine? I will never give Batman any credit if he healed by himself or with some sort of mental technique.

lifeisaglich
Well you all know that Alfred will never leave his side, plus greyson, huntress (i think), batgirl(don't know which one), Arzeal the reason why I am saying this is because its a known fact that surrounding your self with family could cause a sick person to heal very well. Plus the mental and meditating thing is not far off.

Punkyhermy
I 'm not sure how hea healed...never read the comic...too long and bats wasn't drawn like the hunk he is!

Havoc470
-_-

i thought he was healed by some magical person or something, i really doubt the presence of any of his friends there would change the outcome at all....seeing as it doesnt fit with how punkyhermy described batman, especially of how i've seen him act towards helping hands

Gregory
People keep asking this in this thread, and I keep telling them (well, maybe this is only the second time, but still...): he was healed by Dr. Sandra Kingsolve (I might be wrong about her last name), a metahuman with healing powers.

Havoc470
thanks for clearing that up greg

FrothByte
i wonder if bruce ever gets sleepy while attending one of his meetings? i know i will if i stayed up all night.

lifeisaglich
but then again that is why he is the head of his company to anything that he wants who would question him

Punkyhermy
Bruce doesn't feel sleepy coz during day, he's busy catching up on sleep!He hardley EVER steps into his office!Except a few mandatory meetings...he's free...so he rests and sleeps I guess.

Havoc470
*whisper* you forgot he builds some of his amazing machines without the mute dwarf guy around *whisper*

Linkalicious
Same could be said about Reed when it comes to vast intelligence.

Sure....he's smart.

But can any mortal man truly know even 1/3 of the stuff he does? No.



I fail to see anyone putting up any sort of decent arguement as to how Bruce is any less human than other human characters.

Havoc470
actually there are people who know as much as reed richards, except for all the alien technology and the like

wrathofachilles
Yep. Me. wink

Linkalicious
well then....actually, they don't know as much as Richards if you're not including the alien technology.

Havoc470
alien technology and the like, for example his actual experience's with galactus and dr. doom, among a thousand others.....remember at first he was an astronaut

lifeisaglich
Start naming the people who are know as much as reed rechards

Havoc470
steven hawkings for one lol, basically about anyone who has a passion for earth/space science which i obviously cant name

lifeisaglich
so steven hawking is in the marvel world.

Havoc470
wth are you talking about, because a while back we were talking about HUMANS ON EARTH we know that have the same knowledge as reed richards, save the alien technology and the like

as for the marvel universe ironman has the same knowledge as reed, same goes for the falcon, vision, and beast, which is just at the top of my head

lifeisaglich
thanks for clarifying

Swanky-Tuna
Are they *that* know-it-all? Beast is more of a geneticist and Tony Stark more an engineer.

Tron
Yeah, but how many of them can actually do the ridiculous shit that the accursed Richards does?

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