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I think that Jokasta Nu erased the archive for Kamino. I believe we will find out in ROTS that she was working with Sifodias when the clones were originally ordered.

Not sure if I spelled Sifodias correctly or not but hopefully peeps will know who I mean.

i think dooku erased the planet from the archives.

he left the order 10 years before AotC,
which is when the file was erased.
he's the prime suspect. but perhaps just a red herring in
this matter though...hmmmmm

the first person who suggests it was Anakin gets a nipple cripple

I agree.

also known as a "purple nurple" around these parts

Definitely Dooku. He hired Jango and ordered the clones under someone else's identity (Sifo Dyas) so it's only logical that he erased the files before officially leaving the order.

dooku is the most logical, believable candidate....my only problem is that it is perhaps too obvious....no big reveal, no surprise, no twist....but perhaps i'm asking too much here...

on a side note, by calling the character "sido-dyas" (originally) could this not also be seen as a ridiculously obvious clue that it might have been palpatine?.....i'm not pushing for this to be true by the way, i'm still undecided, but just a thought....

well, the way i see it, is GL is making a weak attempt at a mystery.
in every mystery there is a red herring, or a character(s)
who is purposely made to look suspicios in order to fool
the audience.

i think sidi dyas was just that.
we never see him, so why would he be a pivitol character?
and how would sidious be able to change the archive memory?
so thats it...i think it was dooku, and the whole sido-dyas thing
is a distraction.

exactly, it's meant to keep the jedi confused and doubting themselves and their abilities. And as Yoda pointed out in ESB, not believing in your abilities can cause further faliure. Sidious is just taking the Jedi on an emotional rollercoaster, ensuring their final years are not pleasant ones. Sidious (or Palpatine) couldn't simply walk into the Jedi Temple unnoticed. Dooku, before his departure, could.

agreed....but just pointing out that it wouldn't really be a big shock surprise for the audience i don't think....keeping in mind that these films brought us the whole "luke i am your father" bit, i find myself waiting for the big surprise twists....i can't think of anyone other than dooku myself though, without a big stretch....

Yeah, it isn't that big of a twist. But it sounds like there will be plenty of others for us...

I think that it was Jocasta. She is after all the head archivist, and in the novel she seems to be a big admirer of Dooku. It would make sense that she is secretly working for him.

well, this one aint' laid to rest quite yet....have to admit the bubble gum card of yoda making the "big discovery" has got my curiosity fired up all over again...

Dude, it soooo not Jocasta.

jocasta would be a big shock....she would have to do a big "i have turned to the dark side" reveal to camera....dunno, can't quite see it....

qui gon's the only other option i can think of, but even though the shock twist value is high, i don't like the repercussions of it....i have other things in mind for him *crosses fingers*.....

Thank God I didn't say Anakin did it.LOL

You beat me to this one Monkey! That is a valid point.

I thought Anakin did it.


I couldn't resist. My guess is Dooku

what the hell's that hideous noise?....it kinda sounds like samurai guy shrieking in pain....

beats me....

So Count Dooku left the jedi order 10 years before ordering the clones in sifodias place which obviously means that dooku killed sifodias or some kind of problem happened between those two. Maybe about a disagreement. Maybe sifodias changed his mind after ordering the clones or dooku just used him. All possible.

it was MEEEEE!!!!!!!

no....it was....NSYNC!!.....

really though, you make some good points leog.....

I think Dooku Killed Sifodias and ordered the Clones in his name. Then he had Jocasta remove Kamino from the archives.

Jango said he was recruited by a man named Tyranis. That to me is a big clue.

yeah, it does look like it was dooku....but i'm still not sure i buy jocasta being a proponent of the dark side....although maybe her uptightness when obi asked was nervousness/guilt rather than pigheaded pride in her department....hmmmm....still a tough sell....why would she go along with the plan without question?....

Surely it was Dooku? He likely had contact with Sidious just before quitting and erased the location. One of them (probably Dooku) might have had Jango wack Sifo-Dyas right after that. After that, its safe to have Fett donate genetic material to the cloners for an army ordered by a dead Jedi.....

jocasta makes sense, a majority of jedi agree with dooku's philosophy without turning to the dark side or agreeing with his methods.

A majority? Not from the movies, so far, although dissension in the Jedi ranks might have been a good idea. Jocasta being a sympathetic traitor to the Order
isn't a bad idea, either. But Lucas clearly isn't going that way.

For all we know, the old Mace rumor could be true......

listen to the episode 2 commentary

All we can really go by is what's in the films...

The way Palpatine is setting up the Jedi is great so far....

Mace Windu Didn't think Dooku was seduced by the dark side..."He couldn't kill any one, Its not in his nature." Kiadi Thought that he was just a political idealist. If these guys could be fooled why not Jokasta?

She didn't seem guilty or sinister to me, but its possible. I doubt we'll get any solid answer on that question in Ep.3.

I don't think Dooku killed Sifo Dyas. It isn't neccessary. And the clones were ordered ten years ago. And as Obi-wan says, "Sifo Dyas was killed ALMOST ten years ago". But again, this is one of those things we really can't lock down till 3 comes out. Dyas may have been in on it, swindled into ordering them. Then killed. But they said Dyas was a council member. A council member wouldn't get involved in that without the council's help. or awareness.

i think mephis is on the right track, that maybe sifo-dyas DID order the clones and was possibly betrayed by dooku or sidous.

HOW COULD YOU? Those poor Kaminoans......SOB SOB

Jar Jar Binks!!

dooku all the way ; for the reasons theirin

*Snap Hiss Huuuummmmm......... Hey Jar Jar, Got something to show ya.

Jedi90--actually, I do think Dooku did the order. Based on everything I've seen heard and read. I was simply offering a possible alternative pointing out that there really isn't a sure way to go on this without more info. But based on the info we have, its totally Dooku.

Sidious (or Palpatine) couldn't simply walk into the Jedi Temple unnoticed

WHY NOT?
Obi wan did a good job walking round the death star unnoticed
As Stated elswhere on this site or another ...Palpatine assumed Sifodiyas identity to do the deal on Kamino...mebbe he liked the name too
sifodyas
sidoyas
SIDEOUS
almost everything is puppeteerd by palps /sideous in the prequels
so its obviously him
Palps is a sneaky MOFO
Just look at what he did to the bothans in Jedi
Jocasta ........jeez why dont you say it was the duck face guy taking a stroll in ep2...thats more likely.

The Death Star wasn't full of Jedi. Hard to sense though Palpatine obviously is, to do it himself would be a ridiculous risk.

It is at least 95% that it was Dooku.

Neither was the jedi library......some kid,some old librarian and obi wan if i remember....the place looks kind of empty....
Whats to say Palpatine didnt just go in and do it sneakily...or is it Jedi only membership.
Seeing as the whole jedi council are around him at the beginning of episode2 and dont sense anything(yeah............ WE BEEN HERE B4)
whats to say Palpatine hood up late one night...a bit of mind control to get in past whoever guards the place
bit of sneaking around
erase Kamino
on his way


How long had Kamino been erased by the way???

I reckon Palpatine will come clean with the fact HE erased KAMINO just before he takes WINDU out with a few other "it was i who....." style comments an all.
Seeing this is the point where non star wars nuts will go "OOH !!....SO HES THE GUY UNDER THE CLOAK WITH THE LISP!!!" there is no doubt going to be some Luke+the emperor style banter between Windu and Palpy where he confesses all and clears up for the casual viewer....

I cant see Dooku confessing
seeing as he gets whacked right at the start of the movie

The Library is IN the Temple, and is liable to have Jedi in it at any time, any number of whom could have spotted him out of place... it's still a ludicrous risk that he did not need to take.

Not to mention how ludicris it is to believe he went all the way out to Kamino to do that deal himself. He needs to stay on Coruscant at all times to maintain the Palpatine image. He wouldn't have time to make that sort of a trip in the middle of a "crisis" period. C'mon cylob. You really think he can just slip away like that? When people need to talk to him day in and day out? Why can't it be as simple as Dooku joins Sidious in secret and before officially leaving the order, he erases the traces of Kamino from the Jedi Library. I'm sure Jocasta would give him his space to work, since she "respects" him as much as some people have claimed. She wouldn't bat an eye at him sitting at a terminal. It's simple, highly probable, and makes perfect sense.

I think gui gon did it.

Yeah he knew what was going on and he did it to prevent the clone wars(wich is a plan of Palpatine to gain control of the galaxy)Like Dooku says he knew all about the crruption in the senate .So and when the files were erased Guigon Could have still lived.I know it sounds stupid but it is possible.Even if he was dead he could have returned like Obi.They said once gui gon ghost will be in ep 3 and there will be explained who erased the files.So what do you think?

I think wtf

it was Dooku hun.

I still think it was Jokasta JP, under the guidance of Dooku.

It would be really stupid for Dooku to erase those files cus the clone wars are part of their plan(1. Become chanselor ep 1. 2.make a army ep2 3.Make sure you control them ep3. 4.Begin a war ep2. 5.Get emergency powers ep2 .6.Now that all the other armys are weakened= jedi and separatists start an empire with you as emperorep.3 7.keep the senate for a while.Make a super weapon ep4,3,2.8.Get rid of the senate ep 4.)

The files were erased to hide Kamino. Dooku had every reason to want it hidden.

What are these reasons then?Yeah and gui gon had ONE good reason to keep Kamino hiden=PREVENT THE EMPIRE.

Palpatine was behind the creation of the clones. He wanted Kamino hidden from the Jedi. Did you see the movie?

Did you see the original trilogy?

What does the original trilogy have to do with Kamino? It is simple GL wanted us to know where the stormtrooper originated. If Qui-Gon wanted the clones hidden that would just bolster Palpatine's plan. Plus Jango was recruited by Tyranis aka. Dooku. Qui-Gon has no connection with Kamino.

How would Qui-gon's hiding Kamino prevent the Empire? Palpatine is behind the Clones in the first place.

You re right it was just an idea ,but i still think it is a possibillity.There are some holes in it.al i wanted to say you could be surprised who it is.Let s just wait untill ep.3.

Now i have been thinking and t could be Dooku to protect the army until it was finished.So then jedi priestess an all the others could be right.It was just a stupid idea(Een opwelling zoals ze zeggen in het Nederlands).I was searching in the wrong direction.That about the ot was just a joke.Oh yeah you got a cool signature.

Thanx

Dooku all the all,
Jango "I was hired by a man name Tyrannis on the moon of...."

Dooku was also known as Darth Tyrannis. So he hired Jango back when the oreder for the clones was put in. So, he was porably still in the Order. He erased the planet of the archives and left the order on good terms.....with no one the wiser.....BAH HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

i might be going against the grain here but i think it was palpatine, and the reason for adopting dooku as his apprentice was to rally up some separist systems and to recruit a dangerous bounty hunter,best in the galaxy,to generate a clone army........if it wasnt for the toxic dart kamino would have been unknown,mabey the clones were gonna be for the empire/separists...whoever won!!!!!

Yeah, it could have been Palpatine, though I always thought it was Dooku, only because of what Yoda said "Only a Jedi could have erased those files." So Dooku would match that description.

The empire is the Old Republic though....remade...under one ruler, so the clones were for the Empire....palpatine is smart by, Maul dies...he needs someone new, someone all ready trained so he meets and turns Dooku. palpatine can't change the archives....he dont have access I guess not being a Jedi after all. Dooku was....he could go into the Academy and change the archives. Dooku all the way....palpatine is using him, he put his plan down at the Order and everyone else played right into his hands.

yeah i know palpatine might not have access to the archives,but in order for the clones to be made kamino had to be erased sometime either during TPM, dooku was long gone even before the events of TPM ,and not allowed in the temple no more, i believe they might of let someone in that wasnt a jedi but had a kind face,and a recognizeable figure that is known around coruscant.............PALPATINE!!!

that's not true. They didn't even notice Kamino missing till AOTC. Why couldn't it have happened JUST after TPM, like when Dooku left. Dooku left after Qui-gon died. Almost seemed like it was suddenly. And then he disappeared until resurfacing as the leader of the separatists. I think he and Palpatine were already talking. And he left after destroying the files. It makes absolutly no sense, there is no realistic senario for how Palp would destroy the files. That's what's so illogical about the whole Palp theory.

From what i gather no one had heard of Kamino...jocasta nu,Obi wan and Yoda hadnt...and it took a soon to be wacked youngling to come up with the goods.

Do we actually find out who wiped the files in Ep3???

Will Lucas totally bypass the whole subject?

Has there ever been a poll?

Jokasta was hiding the fact that she erased the file. She seemed a little miffed and to the point when Obi Wan said that the archives were incomplete.

She was just miffed that someone (Obi wan) tried to correct her when she beleived herself to be right...like most people(myself included)on this forum do.

that's how I took it too, cylob. she's just defensive because she's not corrected very often.

It was Sidious.

how was it Sidious....the jedi were just like hey Palpatine come on in, roam free in our HQ. Please do what ever you want seeing your the Senator of Naboo after all. The jedi order always lets the Senators in after all obi-wan even "Padme is a senator and not to be trusted" but Palpatine thats completely different. When it was erased people he was the senator of Naboo....

STAR WARS.COM DATA BANK

"In both guises, Dooku began recruiting agents for what would eventually amount to the death of the Old Republic. As Tyranus, he contacted the notorious bounty hunter Jango Fett to become the template for a hidden clone army on Kamino. As Dooku, he appealed to the greed of the galaxy's most powerful commerce barons to consolidate their forces to challenge the Republic. "

He contacted Jango like I said for the clone army....which means he was their since the cloning began. I heard on the Force.com lucas was going to say who did delete the files in Esp 3. all with so much other stuff he better cover.

sorryy sorry obi said politiian not senator but its the same thing.

Has anyone considered the possibility that Syfo-Dias may still be alive? Or at the very least consider that there is more to his character than has been revealed. Think about when Obi-Wan first contacts Mace Windu and Yoda. As soon as he mentions Syfo-Dias, Windu and Yoda exchange a look as if they know something that Obi-Wan does not. Then there is an awkward silnce until Obi-Wan finally asks if the creation of the clone army was approved, and then Windu is all suddenly, "No!"

I don't think it was Palpatine, but I'm not really sure about Dooku either. He would be the obvious one of course, but that's just the thing. It's too obvious. My vote would probably go toward Syfo-Dias. The fact that he died around the same time as TPM which is also around the same time that the clone army was created is just too much of a coincidence. I think there's still more that we don't know, and that it'll all make sense by the end of Episode 3.

Sifodyas is DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD!!!!!!!
Whoever erased the files..... be it Palpatine(my 8yr old nephew says its Palpatine so its gotta be a FACT!) or ....grrrr...dooku assumed Sifodyas very dead personality,visited Kamino and ordered the clones.
NO JOCASTA NU
NO SIFODYAS
NO MACE
NO SADDAM
NO KI ADI
NO ANAKIN

May cannot come quick enough

Dooku did it just prior to giving Yoda and Mace the finger.

Qui Gon was a good guess though. But for the wrong reasons their.

Honestly I think i'll love Esp. 3. But with 3 being the only number between 2 and 4 GL has alot to cover.

Jedi dying,
Anakin becoming Vader
Pap revealing himself as the Emp.
Windu dying
Yodi leaving and hiding
Obi leaving and hiding
luke and leia
Organa family taking in Leia and Padme(my guess)
Obi taking Luke to tatoonie then staying there himself.
Gen Grevy story line.
Who erased Kamino
Why are some jedi ghost after they die.
How the Stormtroopers lost so much skills between 2 and 4 (lol...they all got old and didnt clone anymore was my guess lol...doubt they will cover this though)
thats besides anything new he throws in. Wookie, Clone troopers turning on the jedi, space battles, the Obi/ Anakin fight.

....
thats alot of crap to cram into 2 hours....even into 3. So unless starwars 3 1/2 comes out I think their will be alot of simple quick answers.

And the simplist answer is Darth Tyrannis....AKA Dooku.

I think Dooku visited the clone planet of Kamino under the name of Syfo-Dias. Helping to thriw the jedi off their trail if they were to start to caugh on....cause saying his name Dooku would have been a dead give away. Using "Darth Tyrannis" would reveal the sith to be involved.

Look at it this way....if it wasnt found. How would Palpatine explained were the new army came from so quickly? "Oh did I mention I know a cloning planet thats cloning a famous bounty hunter that I can happen to get control of :-)"

Dooku....Him and Jango played both sides of the war. With The sep and the clones. Dooku gathered planets to him to give the Old Republic a reason to create a grand army of the republic. All went as planned.

Supershadow himself admitted to erasing the Kamino files...

OMG, he was right there in EPII. Did nobody see him?

...couldn't resist.

uh NO. Its been confirmed that Dooku is NOT Syfo-Dias.

The Storm Troopers will be cloned from a number of different sources. Lots of bureaucrats will become cloning sources by the time of ANH. The gene pool will be polluted with lots of poor shooting rich tycoon DNA.

10000000 Sio Bibbles wouldn't be that great

I still think the ones seen in ep 4 are cloned from anakin

They are all different sizes! No way they all came from Anakin.

Dooku did it before he left.........

still...I think Bibble there could put up a better fight than most of the stormies...

<quote> I still think the ones seen in ep 4 are cloned from anakin </quote>

HA and I say again HA. They Clone Jango and they get kick ass trooper, they clone Anakin and they get lil handicap people(AKA Stormtroopers)
LOL....and I say again HA.

I think their all clones of Jar Jar Binks, think about it. Their useless lol, stupid, bump their heads of doors. and Jar Jar did help give The Emp. all the power after all lol. So he did help the Empire come about.

How long Yousa haven desa droids? Desa notsen da droids wesa lookn fur. LOL

it is said at tfn that the jedi who erased kamino was seen onscreen in ep2. no quigon, no palpatine.
not dooku, as dooku left before the thing was erased.
watch ep2 again and see if anyone seems suspicious. i dont think it was jocasta either.

i reckon it was someone like quinlan vos (not him exactly, but someone with his personality and the "i'll do what i want" kinda attitude"

For all intents and purposes in this debate, Quinlan Vos and all other similar characters do not have a personality, nor are they important enough to have done it.

most jedi would report something like that to yoda, so its gotta be someone shifty.

palpatine

It's Jocasta I'm telling you. Wait and see she has the ability, motive, and she showed signs of irritation with Obi-Wan when he was searching the archives. You all are gonna have to eat a lot of crow when this turns out to be true.

See these plates containing ERIC RAVEN,the crows from DUMBO,the crow from DAMIEN THE OMEN2,the crow from the KIA ORA drink advertisement and RUSSEL CROWe???...........well they are staying put cause aint no one eating crow

Though Jedi Junky may be eating his words

Jocasta Nu?
JOCASTA NU?
JOCASTA?
NU?

if its Jocasta Nu then Chewie is a SITH!

i know supershadows shifty, but on his site you should read about the history of the jedi. very cool (although possibly not real) but its got that palps went to find three people to choose one as an aprentice - dooku, sifo dyas, and some other loser. sifo dyas was killed and so was the other loser. dooku ordered the clones under sifo dyas name, as kamino was expecting him. and the guy that erased the file was some other jedi loser (i doubt hes real, it was probably dooku). interesting read, but possibly false info.

Well, first of all I'd like to add my two cents and say I think it was Dooku and that he did it right before he left the Order. That aside, no matter who erased, <i>they did a lousy job of it!</i> Seriously! Obi noticed that the stars were still in orbit around something, so anyone who knows anything about space could have said "hm, there's a planet there!" Combine that with the fact that nobody knows where Kamino went to, and poof! Missing planet found!

Honestly, do a better job of erasing data next time, who wouldn't notice that the stars are orbiting <i>something?</i>

You forget, of course, that if Dooku erased it, it was under Palpatine's order--and he WANTED Obi Wan, or someone, to find Kamino and bring the army to the Republic's side...and thus start the Clone Wars.

It is quite simple. Dooku erased Kamino from the Archives. Palps plan was for the Jedi to find the clones first, he had his inside man (Dooku) do some dirty work for him, before leaving the Jedi Order. A Jedi supposedly ordered the clones (but it was really Palps), thus making the Jedi look like warmongerers, wanting to start a conflict with the Separatists. Palps wants the Jedi to look bad in the eyes of the Senate, as a preultimate to ROTS, where he outs Windu as an assassin trying to kill him. And Anakin, his bodyguard, saves him and kills Windu. Using all of this "fabricated evidence" he declares the Jedi to be rebels. Palps had a gene sequence programmed into the clones, "Order 66" which gave Palps complete control over the them and he orders them to kill all the Jedi. Taking out his only opposition in taking over the galaxy. Like clcokwork. Palps is a political mastermind.

Come on Baily...u don't really but that "order 66" crap from joshua do you? i agree with you 99%....

I put "Order 66" in quotes as sarcasism. I am sorry that didnt that clear. I dont believe anything that hack JG says. I never have. He is too often proven wrong.

yeah... i just assumed it was dooko. I mean, what other jedi could have erased it? mebe palps but...

Elan Sleazebaggano

"You wanna buy some clones?"

"Eh i don't wanna sell you clones"




But couldn't you just see it?

Personally, I think that somehow Sidious erased Kamino from the archives. I mean, he, the dark lord of the sith, hid for how long, right under the Jedi's noses? Erasing a few files should've been nothing.

exactly!!

this is an offshoot question, but it kinda deals with this part of the movie.

If dooku ordered the clones from kamino under sifo-dyas' name (i assume so no one from the republic could find out who really ordered them), Why would dooku order the clones for the republic if the republic would just use them to fight his own droid armies anyway. it is like he is fighting himself and wanted the republic to come sweep in and win the battle of geonosis. maybe it was a big diversion or something because he knew sideous was really gaining control of the republic secretly and he is working with sideous (which no one knows yet...or until the end of ep. II), So if the republic has the clones, eventually sideous would gain control of these clones after taking over the republic, giving sideous and dooku double military power. Because the republic was kind of against the idea of a droid army until they needed it to fight the CIS. So it seems like a big trick on the republic basically.

this is what i see is happening, does that seem accurate?

but i just thought of something else, if this all is accurate, then why wouldn't dooku just order the clones for himself, or the CIS pursay, and then he would have a gargancious army and could team up with sideous that way. ahhh, maybe it is because the kaminoians would only create a clone army for the republic, not for some separatist movement. that makes sense...i think

woa..

Here's what I think, epolieboy.

Ok, we all know the Republic becomes the Empire. Dooku started the separatist movement to challenge the Republic and make the Senate vote to get an army. Sidious/Palps wants to take over the galaxy and turn the Republic into the Empire. To do this, he needs an army. Dooku needed to give the Republic a reason to get an army, so Dooku started the separatists going. It's all a plot by Dooku and Sidious to get the Republic enough power to take over as the Empire. A pretty good plan too if you ask me.

That's my theory.

I think its a safe bet to say Dooku had a hand in erasing the file but did he physically do it? My money is still on Jocasta-Nu. Obi-Wan said that only a Jedi could have erased those files. Jocasta was the curator. She has the power and the motive (Secret feelings for Dooku). I just think that she protested too much when Obi-Wan suggested the archives were incomplete.

I like that theory ArthasKnight. It makes sense. So then did dooku order the clones under sifo-dyas' name cause he knew he was dead and then the republic couldn't find out who REALLY ordered the clones. They would just end up being like, okay, the clones are there, lets use them to fight at least if there waiting for us. Palps probably ordered dooku to do all this i suppose, under his master plan.

No Sypher was a long forgotten missing jedi so dooku preteneded it was his name and ordered a clone army as that name i can say no more

This post subject is this sites equivalent of the BLAIR WITCH WOODS
You always end up back where you started
so to keep the ball rolling
IT WASNT JOCASTA NU.....JOCASTA NUs reaction is that of most females when you try to tell them they are mistaken......they get all huffy!

one question...who's Sypher?

sypherdias duh!

gee, im sorry,....i was under the impression it was SIFO-DYAS, not Sypher, this aint the Matrix.

AND JUST HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS AS FACT? Did you even read the AOTC novel? Probably not so I will tell you what I'm basing my assumptions on.
1) IN THE NOVEL (which was approved by GL) I read that Jokasta had secret feelings for Dooku. There are photos that I found on Google of Obi-Wan and Jokasta speaking about a statue of Dooku. In the book this is the scene where we find out about here feelings.

2) Dooku is no longer a Jedi he would have been noticed fooling around with the archives.

Now if Dooku were to find out about Jokasta's feelings he could use them to influence her into erasing the archives. I think that the reason the scene with Obi and Jocasta talking about the statue was deleated was because it would have given this away.

very good job...i applaud you. So let me ask, and i really want to know...the statue that OB1 was looking at almost in a trance if you will, was that Dooku or Qui Gonn? I heard it was Qui Gonn, but i could be mistaken...do you know jedijunky?

You know... I'm not sure on that one but I can probably find out.

ok thanks, i cant tell by looking at it, bu *** doesnt look like long hair to me.

That's great and all but you're using EU as fact and we all know that that doesn't fly.

Err... no he's not. But what he is saying is not for certain.

What EU? The novel? The novel is not EU it is just the written version of the movie.

Yeah but there's dialogue that GL may not have intended but the author just put in there to put more emotion into the text. I consider all novels EU because GL didn't necessarily mean for everything in the novels to be considered in the movies. In the movie (unless I've fogotten) no one ever mentions that Jocasta Nu had any such thoughts about Dooku so we don't know for sure. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that was in the movie.

Do you know what EU means?

Yeah, Expanded Universe. As in, the books.

Uh the "books" arent necessarily the novels. Yes i know novels are books, but the books refer to the shadows of the empire and stuff like that. Novelizations are the movies in written form. You heard of editing a movie? Well parts that were taken out of the movie for time reasons, will still be in the novel. So theyre not considered EU. EU means beyond the movies.

well ill eat my own head in may if it turns out to be a ..................librarian with a crush!!!

Hope your hungry.

As I said, the novels are all approved by GL. He sits down with the authors and gives them the layout and everything. A lot of the scenes in the book that are not in the movie are deleted scenes. some didn't even make it to the DVD but it doesn't mean that they are not a true part of the story.

1)Yes but that was in the novel.....which i DID read.....i dont read EU as im not an EU fan BUT i DO read the movie novels as im a SW MOVIE FAN
as far as im concerned chewie aint dead,there aint no Mara Jade,there aint no Thrawn and there certainly aint no BOLLUX!

and the clip with the statue was deleted so it doesnt matter.

mebbe old wrinkly jocasta snuck dooku into the jedi library after hours to fiddle with her archives eh??????????

this is Star Wars NOT THE GOLDEN GIRLS!!!!!!!!!!

Great Information JJ1138

Your argument is way weak Cylob (no offence). You have no case here. I backed my theory up with facts.

What you consider to be EU is totlally irrelevant; it is not a subjective matter. The novels are not EU any more than a turnip is. I have made the definitions of these things very clear in my thread about canon up the top- do not confuse EU and non-canon as the same thing.

And even then, the novels are semi-canon, though using them as sources is notably dodgy.

Okay Ush, no offense, but what IS relevant to you? In nearly every post I read that you wrote you say that something is irrelevant. If we all spoke of something that was relevant we'd all be boring stiffs. Keeping everything rigid and staying "relevant" can be a bit boring. We all get a little off topic sometimes. And 'relevant' is a subjective term too.

And by the way, something someone believes is NEVER irrelevant.

Pfft. Don't be ridiculous. If someone believes blue is red, is that relevant, or is he just totally wrong?

Do you think Matrix Reloaded is a Star Wars film? Of course not.

The only things that are EU are those that are published under the umbrella of BEING EU. It is not a term for us to apply by opinion, it is a factual state of being. The novelisations are NOT part of the EU, by definition, any more than they are Noddy stories.

So your opinion as to what is EU or not is not at all relevant, because that is down to fact, not opinion, so what you think makes absolutely no difference, and if you claim otherwise you are simply totally wrong. So most certainly in this case, talking irrelevancy is a waste of time.

Wouldnt say it was weak but i guess well just have to wait til April.
Ill no doubt have a beer after ive watched ep3 AND if you ARE RIGHT..... ill have a drink on you whilst i eat my own head.

"The novelisations are NOT part of the EU, by definition, any more than they are Noddy stories...."

only because it states that it is EU on the cover? that would mean EXPANDED Universe is a registered name then. if somebody rights a novel in the form of a movie, theyre expanding on that story. in the SW world, the writers of the novels are expanding on the SW universe= EXPANDED UNIVERSE. unless what your'e saying is that EU is a registered name like i asked before, then that would make sense.

So if GL released a DVD with never before seen scenes, that further explained things or had extra dialog, that was originally IN the move but was cut for time reasons....than thats EU?

No of course not...you can write more in a book than you can put in a movie, theres no time constraints. Theres a part when OB1 is talking to Vader in ANH, as you know, and all we know that says, "you cant win Darth, if youstrike me down I will....." . OK, but that entire scene he says something about if HE killed Vader then if Vader struck him doen.....now im sure thats in the novel...so is that EU....no its not.

EU refers to the stories that other people write and they just have to run the general idea by GL being that theyre using his title. i.e the story where Luke joins the darkside and then comes back to the lightside.

What I was saying is that what someone believes should not just be thrown aside because it is important to that person, it's an insult to the person to be shot down because they believe something that is contrary to a popular belief. And excuse me, but it is my opinion that the novelisations of the movies are EU because we don't see the same things in the film. We can't tell what the characters are thinking at any particular moment because we're not some omnipotent author. And isn't opinion what this forum is about? Everyone's opinion about a given topic with the right to say what they believe? Calling my beliefs irrelevant is completely contrary to the nature of this forum.

i really dont think dooku did it because everyone thinks he did it but maybe its a scheme that GL did to throw us off

It's a deal.

I dont think Lucas's goal is to make things confusing and throw us off to less obvious theories. Dooku definitely had the ability to do so, since he was an apprentice of Yoda at one point and only jedis can change the archives.

"EU refers to the stories that other people write and they just have to run the general idea by GL being that theyre using his title. i.e the story where Luke joins the darkside and then comes back to the lightside."

exactly my point.

get of the EU subject, no one will ever completley agree. you can have your own opinoin and realize to yourself that you may be right, but this seems like a very repetitive argument.

Actually dad, we were explaining the difference between EU and the acceptable star wars facts. Theres nothing to disagree on, as far as "what is EU", Its either EU or not...theres nothing that sort of is but sort of isnt.

If it wasn't in the movie you saw, then its EU. Simple.


Dooku is responsible. Lucas isn't going to pick up that little plot line, probably because he thought people could just work that out for themselves.........

A Jedi master leaves the order and joins the opposition and later a critical tidbit of info is missing from the archives. Then you find out he's working with the evil mastermind.........

Dooku is responsible but I'm still sticking to my guns on this one. Dooku had Jocasta erase the archives. If Jocasta is so anal about the accuracies of the archives don't you think she would have realized that someone had altered them? Look its simple, in the galaxy far far away the technology is so far more advanced than ours. There would have to be some kind of security system in place to safeguard against such a thing. Jedi come and go but the archives were written from the beginning.

so is the jedi archives the only place you can look up planets and systems on the entire of Coruscant??

edited

Perhaps, probably not. Its probibly the most well guarded and accurate, thus jocastas coment "If its not in the archives, it doesn't exist"

I was saying it since I seen the movie and on this thread back a few pages, it was Dooku. It make sense.