Doom & FF vs Thanos

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Krissy Von Doom
The Fantastic Four and Dr Doom team up to take down Thanos, both parties have one day prep time. Who takes the win?

Mane
Thanos. hes smarter than richards or doom.

Arachnoidfreak
Than Richards OR Doom, but put together? I dunno about that. Along with the added help of the rest of the Fantastic Four? Thanos will certainly have his hands full. Battling Thing, Torch, and Invisible woman, and countless Doombots, while Richards and Doom think of shit, and as soon as they get one thing done and send it at Thanos, they will already have another idea to throw at him. Thanos will need every trick he ever learned.

Ponem
First off; in pure inteligence. Richards far outclasses Thanos, when it comes to trickery however; Thanos takes the cake.

What's Thanos equipment? Cant make a good judgement without knowing that.

wrathofachilles
First of all, Doom wouldn't really 'team up' with the FF; he would use them in his attempt to take down Thanos, and if they were successful, he would immediately turn on them. Still, I think Thanos is too strong for any non-god-like hero/villain, even team-ups.

Evangel94
Doom wouldn't work with the FF, not a chance. Even if Doom and the FF found an understanding to work together,.......Thanos beats them like rag dolls regardless and then spanks them for bad behavior.

Wynndar
he fought the Dreaming Celestial with the FF, why wouldnt he fight Thanos with his help....and by the way, Doom and Richards both outclass Thanos in brains, i will find a quote but i think Thanos has admitted it himself that in terms of sheer intelligence Richards is smarter

Tron
Hell, if Richards exceeds Thanos in intelligence, then it's easy to assume that Doom does also. Thanos may have more knowledge on plenty of things, but when it comes down to using what you know, Richards and Doom do it better than anyone.

And that also adds legitimacy to the Doom/Thanos thread:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=302368&perpage=20&highlight=Dr%20Doom%20vs%20Thanos&pagenumber=1

wrathofachilles
Well Thanos is of course brilliant, he's just too self-conscious. He doesn't have the annoying cockiness of Richards and the unmitigated arrogance of Doom.

Linkalicious
what makes you believe that Richards is smarter than Thanos in pure intelligence?

and what equipment are you refering to? It's Thanos. he doesn't wear a utility belt.

who?-kid
When written right, Thanos will bite the dust against Doom and the Fantastic Four.

I can imagine Doom will give Thanos some problems (nothing he can't handle, mind you), but together with Richards and the rest of the FF, Thanos is screwed.

And I'm not convinced Thanos is smarter than Reed or Victor. Maybe more cunning, yeah, but more intelligent ? Based on what ? His technology is on a higher level than that of Reed or Doom, but it's not like he created everything by himself, is it ?

And I haven't seem much time machines made by Thanos either. Doom constructed his own...

Linkalicious
I only feel that Thanos is smarter than either of them because of:

1.) the things he witnessed, experienced, and felt while obtaining
a.) the cosmic cube
b.) the Infinity Guantlet
c.) The Heart of the Universe
d.) While spending time in Death's realm

2.) He travels the ENTIRE universe...ney....parts of the Multiverse. He has seen, read, and experienced things that neither Doom or Richards has even remotely done. They are for the most part.....stuck on Earth doing their day to day stuff. Thanos cruises the entire universe.

3.) His obvious cunning...but I think that would be challenged by Doom.

Wynndar
false....has Thanos been to the negative zone?....the realm of the Beyonders (where the energy of the cosmic cube comes from)...has he been throughout both the multiverse and the onmiverse? has he mastered time travel? has he been to as many alternate and dark dimensions?....Has he been to Limbo? Thanos has done none of these..the FF have vastly explored the universe, brush up on that...they have experienced more intergalactic travel than any other super-team. Doom and the FF have been to so many alternate dimensions i cant even list them right now. Doom and the FF have also faced off against beings more powerful than Thanos without boosting their powers like Thanos with the IG. Back it up with facts, you listed what Thanos has done yet u totally ignored the FF and Doom...it might not be your fault cuz u might not know. Thanos has been all around the universe but so have the FF. Thanos does not engage in time or extra-dimensional travel that often. If he does travel interdimensionally, its to Death's dimesnion or one of a handful of dark dimensions. He mostly just hangs out in the regular reality flying around in vast star ships built by the people of planets he conquers. When Doom and the FF travelled to the Beyonder's dimensions, they passed through the dimension of the Beyonders (different from the Beyonder) and several other Dimensions that Thanos and no one else to my knowledge had passed through before or since then. a couple years ago the FF just jumped around dimensions for months after fighting Ronan the Accusor.

Linkalicious
Thanos most certainly has mastered Time travel...and i would say that he has a farrrrr greater understanding of it than Reed Richards and Doctor Doom combined....

Time Gem....wink

Granted my knowledge of the FF and Doom are near next to nothing incomparison to Thanos, but there are things that both have done that the other hasn't.

the FF and Doom both spend LIMITED time in outer space. Their PRIMARY base of operations is on Earth. Thanos' is in his space ship traveling the universe.

Also, having traveled to Limbo, the Beyonders Dimension, and the other things you've mentioned says little about the actual intelligence they both have.

And no one knows what vast amounts of information Thanos has obtained just by doing things like embodying Eternity. To even weild power that amazing is beyond that which a human can comprehend or handle...

Also, your statement about the FF defeating greater enemies than Thanos without the aid of something like the Infinity Guantlet is sort of a mute point. Thanos wasn't given the IG, he earned each gem by getting it from their previous master. They need devices in order to trump greater enemies....like the ultimate nullifier for example.

who?-kid
Sorry, but the Time Gem doesn't count.

Linkalicious
and why doesn't it?

does it or does it not endow it's owner with COMPLETE mastery of time?

Wynndar
using a time gem is not building a time machine....Thanos has no knowledge of time travel....he just had a means of accomplishing it...thats like saying Cable knows more about time travel Than the Leader because he has a device that lets him do it...Cable isnt smarter than the Leader, he just had someone give him a time travel device...Doom and Richards have both built several....and it does say something about their intelligence because Doom and the FF are the only ones in our universe who understand how to reach these dimensions...I dont think Thanos would want to travel to either one though cuz he would more than likely get destroyed..and yes it is hard for a human to comprehend or weild the kind of power Doom did as a Beyonder....thats why it took him time to figure it out and get used to it...

and another reason Doom and Richards know more about time travel...Doom has spent time rolling around with Kang the conquerer...will u try and argue that Thanos knows more than KANG???!?!! kang eventually evolved into Immortus, a human being who meditated in limbo until he had full enlightenment of time and reality! here is a quote from marvel directory:

Immortus was then visited by the Time-Keepers, a trinity of beings who had been born at the very end of the timestream, in the final days before the collapse of the universe. The Time-Keepers helped him unlock new secrets of time and appointed him to oversee the 80 millennia of his existence, a minor task when compared to the whole of Time itself. Creating a giant guardian for his castle, Immortus embarked upon a number of campaigns to untangle the skein of timelines that he and his counterparts had created by their indiscriminate use of time travel. Believing that most of the beings he encountered in his campaigns could not begin to understand the mysteries of time that motivated him, he frequently gave them facile or even misleading information to quell their curiosities or ease their anxieties. The beliefs of other beings were not important to him as long as they did not interfere with his duties as custodian of this segment of the timestream.

im not finished...guess what, although it hasnt been fully explained Reed Richards and the man known as Rama Tut, Kang, and Immortus, are both decendents of Nathaniel Richards, Reed Richard's Father, who is rarely in our time but usually off adventuring around in other timestreams....it isnt explained yet but Richards and Immortus could be brothers...it would make sense since Rama Tut/Kang made his first appearance in the early issues of FF

Wynndar
and do u know who "The Dark Rider" is?

Linkalicious
I'm done. embarrasment

Wynndar
no its cool....there is just a lot of time travel stuff concerning the FF... i wasnt trying to be inflamatory...ur one of the people I respect on here linkalicious...I would never want to sound like i was being insulting to u

Wynndar
oh and the Dark Rider is the version of Reed Richards of a dimension where Uatu the Watcher sent Reed Richards instead of the Human Torch to find the ultimate Nullifier...Richards took too long on Galactus' planet ship and by the time he got back Earth was stripped of life and his family the FF were dead...he went crazy and his entire purpose was to go through eavery timestream and kill the Reed Richards of the reality...he easily defeated the FF and Black Panther...Uatu came to the rescue and destroyed him since he felt he had created such a threat to reality...

Linkalicious
in Thanos' defense...there are like 600+ fantasitic four comics and like 100 Thanos appearances...

That's...about what I got.

Wynndar
yea exactly, since I own most the issues of FF I have a lot of references to back them up in a fight against anyone

Ponem
All of the mentioned artifacts are classified as "equipment"...

Reed Richards regularly travels inbetween the Negative Zone and the Marvel Universe Proper, which is interdimensional transportation
Reed has a pocket universe generator.

He invented that shit. As to where Thanos just uses whatever he steals..Reed is smarter, the only one who can rival him is Brainiac.

With Prep time, Reed can take out Thanos on his own.
Doom with prep has taken out Mephisto..The "god" of evil.

Doom and Richards together with prep would blow Thanos away...xD

Wynndar
When the Earth was at risk of being destroyed by an army of evil Things, the result of Things skin retaliating to Thing turning human...Richards teleported the Thing to another dimension that contained a Kree planet...he could only contain them in that dimension for a few hours and had to find a solution quickly or the World would be destroyed...he got on interdimensional forum with thousands of other Reed Richards from other realities...one of them was connected to the supreme intelligence or a similar kind of hive intelligence...they gave Reed the idea for a reolution...Thanos does not have access to resources like this, or the ingenuity to build and invent like Doom or Richards....that was a cool issue though, explained a lot about the Thing and just how powerful his potential is

Arachnoidfreak
Oh COME ON. You're using MEPHISTO as evidence that Doom is greater than Thanos? Mehpisto is Thanos' *****. If Thanos said 'Mephisto, give yourself a wedgie" Mephisto would say "Yes daddy"

Now, I'm not arguing against you, because Doom + the Fantastic Four would take out anyone, but Doom has WAY more and better credentials than...Mephisto. And he didn't "take him out", he tricked him in his own realm. An amazing feat on it's own, but comparing it to Thanos is just silly.

Ponem
I could care less Doom beat him, i was going by pure smarts alone. Lets not forget Mephisto is a so-called "god". Mephisto is smarter then Thanos, NOT stronger. Doom is smarter then Thanos, not stronger.

How's this; Doom out-witted the Beyonder, point; set; match.

Arachnoidfreak
Yes, Beyonder is a better example. Doom did steal the powers of an omnipotent being.

And Thanos was an omnipotent being. At least twice.

Anyway, again, I'm not arguing against you, Thanos would most likely lose this match.

Krissy Von Doom
Actually, in reference to the knowledge Thanos gained while wielding the infinity gauntlet, he and Warlock actually said that the memories and knowledge they gained as supreme being faded or were fading very quickly, and that was almost right after the Infinity Gauntlet story so now they'd have near 0% recollection of things they experienced back then.

Never
Wait wait wait.

How on earth is Mephisto smarter than Thanos?

The only way Thanos would lose to Doom and the FF is via unwittingly WILLING himself to lose. He does this quite often.

No way Doom beats Thanos head to head, with or w/o prep time. His "defeating" the Beyonder is overrated considering the Beyonder was still relatively ignorant. He only stole Galactus' converted homeworld because Galactus did not consider anyone on the planet as worthy of his notice (hence him sending his "watchdog" down in the Secret Wars mini-series). Hell, Thanos with only the Power Gem defeated Hulk, Sub-Mariner, Wolverine, Cyclops, Thor, Iron Man, Spider Man, and Doctor Doom. Shortly thereafter he defeated Galactus, Lord Chaos and Master Order, Two Celestials, Kronos, Eon, AND Eternity.

Recall him fighting Tyrant to a standstill? He did not have the IG; he had a bauble imbued with Morg's stolen power. Tyrant...is um, NASTY.

Doom and Reed are not Thanos' peers in prepping for a battle. Doom/Reed are more on par with Batman (YES, he whom devised the means to defeat Mageddon, who is far more powerful than anything Doom faced) and Black Panther (whom devised the means to take down Galactus).

Thanos' peers would include Darkseid.

Krissy Von Doom
Just using the power gem? This is in reference to the battle against the earth heroes in IG I assume? He wasn't just using the Power Gem even though he said he would, or else how was he able to send Firelord and Drax back in time during that battle?

Thanos DID have one of the power orbs Tyrant was collecting however how do you know it was Morg's power that was inside? On a related note, during the first half of that battle against Tyrant, Thanos only had his own power to use and when he was being badly beaten he reached for one of the orbs and used it against Tyrant.

And Mephisto isn't smarter than Thanos. But I would question as to why he'd take Mephisto as an "adviser" during the Infinity Gauntlet saga. I found that a bit odd.

wrathofachilles
He was his '*****' in the IG storyline. Not in reality time. Besides, he had no qualms whatsoever about betraying Thanos. Mephisto wouldn't do a damn thing that Thanos told him to do unless it meant he was in actuality the one manipulating Thanos.

Krissy Von Doom
Even in the Infinity Crusade storyline (or was it Infinity War), Thanos wasn't too concerned with Mephisto. They made a deal for a cosmic cube, Thanos gave Mephisto a powerless cosmic cube, Mephisto made some threat and left.

Wynndar
Thanos is a Titan...his battle with Tyrant is a good example why Doom and FF would not try to out muscle him, its practically impossible...Thanos is very intelligent and powerful...but he usually defeats a oponent with a domino effect type plan that goes on over a long period, or just beats them into submission with his massive power...Doom and Richards are not going to try and wrestle Thanos to death..they have superior ingenuity and think on their feet....they employ technology and brains in their assualts...Thanos just blasts them...thats why i think they could get him head on.

wrathofachilles
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Thanos would fear Mephisto, I'm just saying Mephisto is most certainly not his '*****.' He wouldn't say 'yes daddy' and any of that crap. Everyone outsmarts Mephisto, lol. Even Faust! For the Prince of Lies he seems to be a bit too trusting...

Tron
Word.wink

Linkalicious
Edit

who?-kid
I agree. Thanos is not God, or the One Above All. Doom can give Thanos some trouble, but together with the FF, Thanos' fate is sealed.

And when Thanos was fighting Earth's heroes with the Infinity Gauntlet, he used every power of the gauntlet, except, if I recall correctly, he "closed his mind from all data" (or something like that) so that he could be surprised. But he used a lot more than only the Power Gem.

Big mistake to make, especially when you know that this advice was given by the ever treacherous Mephisto, waiting on a chance to betray Thanos.

HarmonicFlo88
side question : how does tha Living Tribunal know when to interrupt a villians plot to destroy tha multiverse?

wrathofachilles
Because he's the Living Tribunal. He knows.

Krissy Von Doom
I've only read of three times that the Tribunal had to be asked to intervene:

Infinity Gauntlet - LT didn't think think that Thanos was doing anything wrong ie. only wanted to replace Eternity (the strong replace the weak) is supposedly one of the oldest canons hence no intervention on the LT's part

Warlock & the Infinity Watch - LT had to intervene because he didn't think Warlock was fit to be supreme being

What if - Korvac obtained enormous amount of cosmic power via Galactus worldship so some cosmic beings asked the LT to intervene but before judgement some cosmics tried to attack Korvac on their own but got beat then absorbed by Korvac. LT's judgement was to kill Korvac via making the sun go supernova (weak I know), Korvac shielded himself and the LT gave up and left.

wrathofachilles
The Living Tribunal, the most powerful force in existence, the closest Marvel depiction of the God of the multiverse gave up and left?! That's absolutely pathetic. That's a testament to the writers: 'well, we've reached our 30 page limit, so let's just say he gives up and leaves.' Nice.

Krissy Von Doom
I thought it was a weak ending. The LT sends Galactus, Shaper, Elders and a bunch of other cosmic beings against Korvac, he sees them get beaten and all he could come up with was making the sun go supernova. What the..?!

wrathofachilles
Omniscient, omnipotent beings tend to be lazy bastards. I know I am wink

Never
The Time Gem was primarily for Chronos.

Re: Morg's power, Cosmic Powers #5/#6. And as powerful as Tyrant was, Thanos being smacked around at normal power levels was nothing to be ashamed of.

Krissy Von Doom
Yes, the Time Gem was primarily for Chronos. However, when he said he would only use the Power Gem against the heroes, he wasn't telling the truth as he used the Time Gem to send Firelord and Drax back in time.

JuggernautFan
i didnt read much of the thread, but i thought i'd throw in my 2 cents. yes i'm going to bring up The Heart Of The Universe again.......

who succeeded when doom failed (doom played a major roll in this comic, and he did have a plan that altimately failed, thanos even comments on how his thinking wasnt good enough, and doom says that thanos spy equipment -IS- better) i got the answer...... thanos succeeded.

who succeeded when all the fantastic 4 avengers and xmen had been wiped out rather easily???? thanos. he bows before no one. he would prevail in this fight, and nobody on this forum will convince me otherwise. marvel has made him basically an untouchable god. if you defeat him they will retcon it faster than shit

Tron
I still say they give Thanos hell, whether they succeed of fail. Thanos would always remember the names of the Fantastic Four and Doom.

Wynndar
well i think it was necessary to beat them...otherwise there would be no story...they cant win all the time or be unbeatable...otherwise my argument would be "because they cant lose!"...no they can lose...however, I posted information and events that support why they would win

wrathofachilles
Well Doom isn't a name you're likely to forget. It's fairly unique. As for the FF, I bet he'll remember the name, but he probably won't remember each of them. "The FF, yeah, that stretchy guy, the hot girl, the flaming dude, and that rock-covered freak...'

Arachnoidfreak
I take it you haven't read Thanos' 12 issue series that just ended a few months ago? Mephisto makes an appearance on Thanos' ship. Thanos and Adam Warlock are standing around chatting, with mephisto on the side, and after Thanos gets what he wants from Mephisto(a promise that Mephisto actually keeps) he basically says "Ok, I'm done with you. What are you still doing here? **** off".

Of course, Thanos used bigger words.

wrathofachilles
I haven't read anything in a year. And I'm pretty sure Thanos didn't say '**** off.' Again, I know Thanos doesn't fear Mephisto, but in no way would Mephisto bend over and say please sir. He'd grumble and say 'screw you' and walk off. There's a big difference, lol.

Thanos and Warlock 'chat?' Thought they were arch-enemies.

Krissy Von Doom
Didn't this chat happen in Infinity Crusade when Warlock and Thanos were devising a plan to beat the Goddess? Mephisto shows up and tells Thanos some stuff about the Goddess in exchange for a cosmic cube, I think.

guy222
Originally posted by Krissy Von Doom
The Fantastic Four and Dr Doom team up to take down Thanos, both parties have one day prep time. Who takes the win?

Team

boriquaking55
Thanos just turned Galactus into a weapon for his own use, in addition to successfully channeling cosmic power into anything he desired.

He fully understands the nature of the power cosmic now & Galactus' tech

Doom would make it difficult in a straight up battle - the FF on the other hand would straight-up just die outright (except maybe Sue)

Bentley
Ok, I hate to be the one who defends Thanos, but some points:

- Thanos already tricked Mephisto.
- Thanos KNOWS Doom, he has said that Victor is one of the beings he keeps tags on, which only talks good about Thanos planning. He is not underestimating him in this battle.
- Thanos is smart, but not "building a radio" smart like Richards, he wont go around making useless trinkets when he has the means and the brains to get the legendary artifacts already on existance. Let the flunkies play with legos, Thanos will just pick an already built castle and live there. How is that not smart? Dont judge Thanos because he doesnt go around building stuff.

Wally West
There was a direct comparison between Doom and Thanos' tech in The: End and Doom admitted Thanos' tech was far beyond his own. The editor of Annihilation said he is smarter than everyone on Earth including Reed. He is one of the smartest beings in Marvel.

Hes beaten Super Skrull with ease and Doom is no match for Thanos. He would win this.

Grimm22
Give Doom and Reed 3 days of prep and Thanos zero and the fight will be a lot more fair yes

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