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I was thinking about this and I think that Qui Gon Jinn was part of Palpatine/Sidious' plan to kill the Jedi. If you think about it, Yoda couldn't tell Palpatine was infact evil. . . he even said it's hard to see the dark side. Qui Gon Jinn, after the council decided not to accept Anakin, was defiant and even stated he would train Anakin himself. Also, Qui Gon Jinn just didn't seem to be like the other Jedi, in fact he wasn't. . . he was more into going with ones own feelings, a trait that runs common in the dark side. This is further exemplified in Episode II when Count Dukoo/Darth Tyrannis reveals to Obi Wan that Qui Gon would have joined the sepratists cause if he had still been alive. It seems to me Qui Gon knew all along that Palpatine was Sidious and also knew of his overall plan. He forced the Jedi Council to accept Anakin so that they could train him in the ways of the force that would ultimately lead to their downfall.

far fetched

How does that make him a plant?

It doesn't.
Just theories, though a good one, I'd say....

Yoda could be a plant due to his color but Qui Gon?

Like a Cherry Tree?

Nah just wooden

Hun you smokin too much weed

why is he smokin too much weed?...coz he has a theory or because he spelled plant instead of plan...when ANH came out and i told you i had a theory about vader being lukes father you would have said the same thing so light up

Qui-Gon is as much a Sith as I am Haydens wife.

I think you may be on to something here. After all, Qui-Gon was trained by Dooku, and they were said to be very like-minded. Why else was he so determined to train Anakin.

(Wouldn't it be good if someone from Ep3 went back in time and told the Council "whatever you do, leave the kid on Tattooine or he'll wreck everything."

Yeah but yoda is the smart one he's the one who saw this coming and went to hide on dagobah.

its nice to see so many open minded star war fans

Theres open minded and then there's silly. And that theory falls into the latter.

even though qui-gon's an indiviisual leader that follows his insticts. I think he gets those traits by being trained by Dooku but he is one of my favorite jedi and certainley not a dark one.

Good theory i give u mad props

mmm interesting

Dooku says it; do you believe it?

And can you give some evidence of that, please? He does or says nothing that suggests he knows.

I like the idea of this.... idea....

Qui-Gon being a Sith would have been an awesome angle. There could have been scenes where Obi-Wan ended up dueling with him, and Anakin could have seen it or something. I don't know, I think I'm smoking too much.

Nice to meet ya!









An interesting theory, but if Lucas didn't think it up, it's not the case.

your the only one who seems to think so...just because you disagree with it dont make it silly

But it IS silly..........

why...because its far fetched....everyone knows qui-gon wasnt the typical jedi....im expecting a twist in ROTS like the twist lucas had in ESB....now there may not even be a twist but i like keeping my mind open but i like the fact that the kid has the guts to post such a far fetched or "silly" theory...its like in sports when all the faired-weathered fans are rooting for the favorites and than someone says the underdog iare going to win and everyone looke at him like he's crazy (im not calling anyone a fair-weathered star war fans its just an analogy)

No what makes it silly is the fact that its STUPID. Why do the fanboys find the need to read into every freaking thing?

Yep, Silly would be the "nice" way to describe it.

jesus christ its just a theory..i explained why i liked it you explained why you didnt NO NEED TO SPAZ OUT WITH CAP LOCKS

heh

all too easy

I read in this book of art work of attack of the clones that jedi knight kit fisto was going to be a sith instead of jedi. Also i saw the character designs for Anakin, Obi-wan, Padme and the others, the artwork and concepts for the backgrounds and planets in the film. And the screenplay for the films including a extra scene on Naboo where Anakin and Padme visit Padme's family and Anakin and Padme's father talk and get along.

Hmm, an odd theory yet an intresting one. Could Qui Gon have been a Sith in disguise helping Sideous? Was he a pawn moved unwittingly by the Dark Lord? Will Lucas pick up on this idea? Depends on how much extra money he thinks it'll pick up really.

Nah, I don't think so. He insisted to train Anakin because he fulfilled the prophesy. How could he send Anakin home after he won their way off of Tatooine? It's really well thought-out, but I think Qui Gon's intentions were good. ^_^

1.He constantly defied the jedi council
2.All of the other jedi sensed anakins danger, so would qui gon
3.He was trained by dooku, who also was a sith
4.He wanted the prophesy to be fullfilled (bringing the force into balance would mean killing a lot o jedi, as it was too unbalanced in the favour of the light side of the force.

I do not think Dooku was a Sith or even a Dark Jedi at the time when he trained Qui-gon, but I could be wrong. It is a very interesting theory, but I do not think Qui-Gon could ever be a Sith. He was very venerable and in my opinion, one of the best Jedis around.

Also, he trained obiwan to defy the jedi council, possibly knowing that doing so would result in anakin turning into vader.
And, he told anakin to 'feel, dont think'. I thought that jedis were not allowed to have emotion, so why did he tell anakin this?

Interesting theory, but I don't think he was a Sith. Rather, I think he may have been much as Dooku said he was. Had he lived, I could definitely see him joining the separatists. And this is what I don't like about Lucas' concept of the force, really.
From all appearances, Lucas got his idea of the Force from Taoism. The way he's represented it, the Yin is "light" and the Yang is "dark". That's not how it should have happened. Striving for enlightenment, harmony, and peace should have been light, and striving to manipulate and conquer should have been dark. That said, to be enlightened, and live in harmony and peace, it is not required that someone abide by the rules that the Jedi order set down. It is possible- someone like, say, Walt Whitman would say *only* possible- to attain the balance and harmony through understanding and living within your own emotions.

Thats where I think Qui Gon was, in spite of the Jedi Order telling him it was wrong, and it's the state of mind that I think Anakin tried to find. The reason that he fell to the Dark Side was because he felt such intense emotion, yet he was taught on one hand (Palpatine) to embrace it and use it as a force to strike down the Order, and on the other hand (the Council) he was taught to ignore it entirely. Anakin wanted to be good, and would have been good, if not for the gross negligence of the Jedi Order. My theory, therefore, is that had Qui-Gon lived to tutor Anakin, he would never have fallen to the Dark Side. Qui-Gon would have taught Anakin the truths that the Order, for some reason, denied- that fear and love can be embraced for the ultimate good. Anakin's fall is as much at the hands of the Order as it is at the hands of Palpatine. The only difference is that one does it unwittingly.

And this, in my opinion, is why Darth Maul seems so intent on killing Qui-Gon specifically in Episode I. I bet Sidious knows that if he can eliminate the only 'romantic' (in the philosophical sense) in the Jedi Order, Anakin will have nobody left to turn to with his emotions but him. Qui Gon is, basically, Anakin had Anakin found a way to reconcile his emotions with the Order's teachings.

Oh yeah, and being a Sith plant just means that he's someone who the Sith planted in the order to cause disruption. Not sure if you guys were being sarcastic or legitimately unsure of the meaning, but yeah, I think that's what he meant.

If Qui-Gon was a Sith plant then why was a Sith apprentice sent to kill him?

The Sith have never exactly had that "all for one, and one for all" attitude going, have they? They wouldn't be the first time one's killed another.

Well yeah but I haven't heard of a Sith being sent to kill another Sith, as opposed to just killing because he wanted to.

If he were a Sith plant and wanted the darkside to prevail, then why o why would we hear him saying, "Anakin Anakin, noo!" when he was slaurtering Sand people?

He was not a sith plant, he was just human and had emotions but knew had to control them.

Hey, yeah, I hadn't thought of that sand people connection. Good call.

Quigon always was telling anakin to "feel, don't think" and "trust your instincts"
Whereas obiwan is always telling anakin to ignore his feelings and do as he is told, and that anakin should think about his actions.
Anakin is confused by the mixed teachings, but the teachings of quigon stay with him more than those of obiwan, making him too reckless and able to turn into vader.
Maybe thats what quigon had in mind all along.

doubt it...i dont think he foresaw (is that a word?) him dying and Anakin being trained by OB1....i dont think he was bad at all. If anything i think he would have been a much better master for anakin.

Guys, he just misspeled, He wanted to say PLAN, thought I doubt that was a plan. Qui Qon Jin succesfully trained Obi Wan Kenobi, Obi Wan didnt suspect a thing. And those two must have been together for a long time...

actually, he meant plant,....a plant is someone who was "planted" into a certain situation, to sway the events in a certain way. They also have another name for plants, theyre called a spy or a mole. None-the-less, he was never affiliated with the sith or anything like that, ya know what they call a jedi who is down with the Sith.......A SITH!!!

BEcause there can only be 2. Maul was jealous.

did kenobi suspect anakin. they had been together for a long time as well

but obiwan was the master not the apprentice in that situation.
I reckon obi-wan sucks as a jedi knight training a padawan, his one and only apprentice turned out to be the 2nd most evil sith.

I reckon Obi - Wan would be a great teacher to a normal Jedi, trained from birth, but Anakins a bit of a Basket case

Watching Episode I again, I couldn't help but notice Qui Gonn's disobedience to the Jedi order.
His demeanor was pleasant, but some of his advice was horrendous.

A few tidbits of his bad advice:

In the begining, Obi-wan mentions his feelings of something elusive but Qui Gonn basically tells him to focus on the now. This is similar to the ideal of a teenager, the concept of here and now is the product of an inexperienced mind. An older person, especially someone of Qui Gonn's years, should know to always be mindful of the past, present, and future.

Later, he tells Anakin not to think in the Pod races, Anakin is told to use his instinct - again this is pretty stupid. Imagine a world where we all act on instinct, our conscience thoughts proportion our minds.

A few other things; he cheats when Watto tosses the dice to chose between freeing Anakin and his mother - it's one thing to use the Jedi mind trick when necessary and yet a completely different thing to utterly cheat someone.

Qui Gonn is also very disobedient to the Jedi council.

It was wrong for Qui Gonn to take Anakin as his pupil, a man of his age should know when to not act beyond his means. A man of wisdom he should have sensed the conflict inside Anakin just as Mace and Yoda did.

Then in his fight with Maul he died so easily and stupidly, if his skill was so weak then how did he last against Maul for as long as he did.

Something isn't right with Qui Gonn, but I can't put my finger on it.
If he is Sith then perhaps that's what Obi-wan was sensing in the begining.

In all honesty can you really see any other Jedi, such as Yoda, Mace, or Obi-wan acting as replacement to Qui Gonn. Try rewatching the Phantom Menance and image any other Jedi in Qui Gonn's place, it won't fit.

Someting doesn't fit right with the notion of him being a true Jedi.

This is a strange theory, it could work, in a way. But also, take into account that he believed that Anakin was the chosen one, that would bring balance to the force. Balance is good, balance is what the Jedi wanted, so he probably was looking out for the future of the Jedi and the better of the force... maybe QGJ was just a more rebellious Jedi.

Unless his interpretation of 'balance' was to have an equal number of jedi as there are sith.
Quigon as a sith plant could also explain how maul found him so quickly.
I think that it's strange how the one thing obi-wan is trying to teach anakin is to follow the jedi code, and to think about his actions rather than acting on his feelings. Whereas, quigon told anakin to 'feel, dont think'
He also says to anakin 'trust your instincts' , and palpatine tells him 'when you learn to trust your instincts, you willl be unstoppable'

It has been stated in this forum many times; Sidious WAS the imbalance, Qui Gon foresaw that Anakin would kill Palps, and the rest of the order were too obsessed with the dark side clouding everything....

As for the theory that he was a sith plant, he can't have been, because there are only 2 sith. Maul was a sith, therefore I think the story is out the window.

Unlike some other members I do not think it is ridiculous, or silly, it is just impossible.

And Dooku was NOT a sith when he trained QGJ, so that is no reason to believe He would be.

I've read all this and found it -very- interesting, but I have some ideas for you all to perhaps consider...

The idea of there being only two Sith is a silly concept in itself. The idea of abusing the Force, becoming a follower of the dark path, and the off-chance that you will find the one other remnant of Sithdom in an entire galaxy is something I don't much agree with. Sith were never ones for complete cooperation, so it is perhaps plausible to hypothesize of various Sith factions (or dark side factions if you have too strict a definition for Sith) to which Qui Gon was perhaps a member of. Certainly his way of going about things was contradictory to the ways of the Order. And -if- he knew that Anakin would strike down Sidious, even if he were a Sith, and especially if he was a Sith plant under Sidious, would he not try for his luck? The teachings of the Sith talk of passion, or intense feelings which are supposed to guide one's Force-given gifts... It teaches of the respect for power, and to strike down those when they are at their weakest... and it especially fosters ambition in its students. If Qui Gon was even considering becoming an outcast or dark jedi he would have been eager to eliminate the most visible Sith leader in a bid for power.

As far as balance goes, I believe the idea of balance as applied to SW isn't so much about good to evil, or even Sith to Jedi... I think it's more related to the stagnation or perhaps corruption of the Jedi teachings. Perhaps they have failed to embrace all their students and properly instruct them. Notice how a whole gaggle of kids were being taught Form I by Yoda... And I bet many Jedi had numerous teachers. It must have been frustrating for children growing up, having to cope with normal pains of growing coupled with the responsibility of wielding the Force. I'm actually surprised the Jedi don't concentrate more on philosophical and ethical development first, and then work on the Force after maturity. Perhaps than Jedi who slipped through the cracks like Anakin might have been saved.