Darth Maul vs Darth Vader(ESB VADER)

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Nick1989
Who would win Maul or Vader(ESB VADER)?? I know that maul is really fast and the master at the double bladed lightsaber. And vader is slow and has powerful attacks

Jayd265
i would think vader would win because he is more powerful with the force. it would be an awesome fight nonetheless

Nick1989
Ok. But Maul is far fast and is bader that Vader

Luxorz
In a pure fight without the use of force, Maul. Otherwise, Vader.

Darth_Nefarus
Vader would win simply because he has more lightsabre skill and power than anyone except maybe Obi-Wan. His skills are incredible in the PT, which is why he manages to defeat Vader in Episode 3. Besides, in ESB we clearly see Luke score a hit to Vader, and all it does is piss him off. Maul may be a little faster and flashier, but I gurantee the Dark Lord in the bad ass helmet would prevail.

chilled monkey
There has actually been a comic in which Maul and Vader fought (it doesn't really clarify how Maul came back to life, presumably cloned). In that, Vader won.

I don't think that can be classed as definative though.

Nick1989
So what your saying Darth Nefarus is that when you piss Vader off e.g Hit him with a lightsaber He will go sick at the person

Jedi Priestess
Nick do you even SPEAK English? Damn boy I cant figure your posts out laughing No offense but do us old folks a favor and when you post make it understandable for us please??

J-Unit
Whats Up Nick...Your opinion Is That Maul Is Faster Than Vader Isn't It? I Agree But Why Is Maul Faster Then Him?

Vader Is Not Like He Was Before In ESB Because Of The Mechanical Parts That Keeps Him Alive...Thats Why He Moves Like A 80 Year Old Man And Not Like He Will In Episode III Probably. But Imagine Maul With
Episode III Anakin (The End Duel) Who Would Win Mate?

Nick1989
Ok. If i was Anakin(Vader), he would destroy maul in a couple of blows

Mist
yeah, ive been trying to find that one. ill have to order it. looks sweet. its not canon, thats why maul fights vader. no clones, its more of a what-if comic.

chilled monkey
Mist: Good luck with your order.

eXSBass
Maul would wipe the floor with Vader, and use his nuts and bolts from his costume.

Maul would kick anyones arse if he wasn't a so damn overconfident son of a gun.

SnakeEyes
I have the comic...
Vader wins and it is believable. It clearly shows that Maul is better at fighting with a saber. Maul is standing over Vader as they are on a rock floating on lava, about to fall off a lava-fall... Vader is weakened and then uses the force to pull his saber to him, igniting it and stabbing Maul in the stomach in the process. Maul then questions Vader, saying something like "what could u hate enough to destroy me.."
Vader then replies with one word, "myself"

its an awesome fight

Mist
sick. im gonna order now before christmas. there a comic shop in the city not far from me and i can order it from there.
hey snake eyes, could you scan a page or something so we can see?

Darth_Nefarus
Nick1989, the fact is, and Lucas has said this, Anakin/Vader is the Jesus of the Star Wars universe. Despite the mechanical body, I still stand by the fact Vader could use the force to increase his speed to match and eventually best Darth Maul.
And how did Anakin become the greatest Jedi the galaxy has ever seen?
Falling into lava and slaughtering countless Jedi doesn't really make you a great Jedi.
But Luke....

Tormentor_2004
Darth Vader would kik his butt. Darth Vader's not dumb you know. He can slice the middle of the double-sabered lightsaber. He was equal 2 Obi-Wan Kenobi and Obi-Wan killed Darth Maul. So he wuld win of course.

Sith Master X
Darth Vader would kick Maul's ass.

Stealth Agent
Darth Vader would kick his ass. i just wish Lucas could of shown Vader's potenetial more and coregraphed his fight scene's better.

bILLYgOAT
anyone play Jedi academy? you can mod it to include Vader & Maul.
with Vaders saber on heavy strike and Maul with a saber staff............
Maul wins every single time.
he's faster and can get three strikes for every one of vaders.
As for the force, well if Maul had any force tricks he would have used them against Qui & Obi during the duel...the only thing Maul did was to force thro a severed droid against a switch to open a hangar door (which was nice) tho i can't understand why he didn't force throw obi as he hung helpless in the shaft. As for Vader, his only trick seems to be force choke.

§pearhead
a: Maul force pushed Obi Wan into the hole, so he's go that

b: Vader did the wind tunnel thing confused I'm really not sure how to desribe that, but he employs a lot more than just choking people

Darth_Nefarus
Vader doesn't use any of his tricks because he doesn't need to. His duels with Luke are merely to get him to join the darkside. Besides, Vader can use the force better than anyone and be he a man or a mech monster, he could still single-handedly destroy Darth Maul.

Stealth Agent
Vader has much more then just choke, you can see everything anakin does in episode II Vader can do. Like i said the movies were made a long time ago so they didnt have quite the ability to make Vader bad ass or a better fighter as they had the ability with maul.

Jedi7115
You sem to forget tha Vader can also force throw as seen in ESB.

kanis
alien Darth Vader easy if Obi wan kenobi can beat Darth Maul and Anakin/ Darth vader is more powerful than Obi wan. Anyway the star wars trilogy hasn't really got that good lightsabre dueling to show off Vader's skills. Anyway Darth Vader has already defeated Darth maul in star wars tales volume three.

sexyking
The force was mega strong with Anakin but we dont know how strong it really is with Vader.

Mr Parker
yeah as much as I hate Darth Maul as villain because of how stupid looking he looks.I got to agree on that.Thats a good point.

Gollum1956
HAHAHAHAHA FOOLS theirs a comic Darth Maul vs Darth Vader 2 part short comics what happens is Vaders goes to a planet forgot name to search for somthing it's stroung with the force and 5 hooded siths take out all his Stormtroopers patrolling area and then Darth Maul confronts Darth vader

Darth_Nefarus
The main reason this is up for discussion is because when the OT came out they weren't able to produce the amazing lightsabre duels we've come to love from the PT. Never the less, as Nick Gillard said. In lightsabre skills, there are 9 levels and the only people on that level are Vader, Sidious and Yoda. Although, I argue Obi-Wan is there as well considering he defeats Grievous and Anakin.

jedipants
we are new to the star wars world please help!!
alien

Ogami Itto
Darth Vader all the way!! Maul was powerful but my moneys on vader. just cause somebodys got a double lightsaber and can jump about a bit ,doesn't mean they could take on Vader

ArthasKnight
My vote goes for Darth Maul. Although Vader's got the power, he does not have the speed to parry a double-bladed attack. Maybe if it was ROTS Vader (in fact ROTS Vader would whoop Maul's sorry A$$!), but ESB Vader is too clunky and slow.

Maul wins this fight.

bILLYgOAT
the window smashed releasing the pressure in the room.
no force required

bILLYgOAT
in a fight
Rots Vader would still be getting used to the suit
ESB Vader would be older, but would have the suit figured out by then, and he'd probably have a few mods fitted, like 18 inch 5 spoke alloys, boom box, nitros and glow strips.
(is this the import car mod forum?)
eek!

Stealth Agent
Vader would fu*k that muther*ucker up like asick beast he'd fu*king anialate maul's ass

is there a site i can order the comic

Stealth Agent
whats the title of the comic so i can look it up

ArthasKnight
No no, I meant ROTS Vader before the suit, 'cause I'm sure he's Vader before the suit comes into play.

Ogami Itto
The REAL Vader id the one in the suit!!!

bILLYgOAT
before the suit = Anakin
after suit = Vader

its easier to avoid confusion this way, but i get your point Arthasknight.

Arsenal
Vader would win.

Arsenal
This is the comic
http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=00-452

Arsenal
http://images.darkhorse.com/covers/00/00458.jpg
http://images.darkhorse.com/covers/00/00452.jpg
I just felt like adding this one stick out tongue
http://chriccha1.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/exploreragg3.jpg

Arsenal
http://img19.exs.cx/img19/8962/sithlords2jv.th.jpg

bILLYgOAT
nice smile

DenKi
some of you are very confused....

Watch StarWars: CloneWars Episode 20 you can anakin at his best againts a double sided lightsabre

bILLYgOAT
yeah,
that is confusing

Arsenal
I have made a short story as to what events I think would take place should this battle had ever happened. Some of it is comedic and some is serious:
Maul and Vader are dueling on a volcanic planet (sort of what OB1 and Anakin duel on in ROTS) and Vader has been countering every move Maul has attacked with thus far. Maul growls and does a spinning attack with his saber and this unexpected move damages one of Vader's shoulders. All through the battle Vader has been calm but this makes him extremely mad that "such a weak fighter" had landed a successful attack, much less damaged one of his shoulders. A few sparks spew out of the damaged shoulder and this enrages Vader even more. He starts hammering at Maul and manages to hit the middle of Maul's double blades lightsaber and cut it in half. Maul drops one half of it but doesn't have time to pick it up as Vader continues his relentless attack. Maul is getting desperate as he can't hold off this attack for much longer as he is getting pushed into a lava pit by Vader. Maul frantically tries to think of a way to get back on the offensive before he gets pushed into the lava. This is when he sees a few plots of land in and around the lava. Vader is about to land the finishing blow and hit him into the lava when Maul backflips onto the closest plot of land. Maul had successfully gotten out of Vader's assault and frantically tried to find a way to get back on the offensive when Vader quickly levitated to where Maul was and continued his assault! Maul was beginning to think that he'd never get a chance to go on the offensive but now wasn't the time to have doubt his skill and, for now, all he could do was evade Vader. Vader picked up his saber and slashed at Maul with all of his strength. Maul saw this coming and quickly jumped to another plot of land. Vader's attack had completely decimated where they were standing and Vader continues after Maul. This continues for some time, with Vader getting madder and madder everytime Maul evades. Maul jumps to another plot of land and Vader jumps high (higher then Maul did) and puts his lightsaber right through the middle of the the plot of land. (this attack causes cracks to form around where Vader is and a shockwave pushes the lava around them back) Vader says "that's the last time I miss" and jumps off after Maul before the waves of lava come back and engulfs where he was standing. He lands on solid ground (out of the lava pit) and deactivates his saber. This confuses Maul (who is still standing on one the plots of land in the pit) he looks around then realizes that Vader had been playing him for a fool and had destroyed all of the plots of land around Maul within a leaping distance when he was pursuing him. With no way out of the pit for Maul, Vader makes a gesture with his hand and the lava sprouts up into a huge wave and Vader direct it towards Maul. Before the lava can completely engulf him, Maul throws his lightsaber with all his remaining strength through the wall of lava and Vader (who couldn't see him throw it with the wall of lava between them) doesn't have time to react and gets his head decapitated.

This is where the story gets crazy, if you're in the mood for some silliness then read on otherwise don't.

Artoo and Threepio have been watching the whole battle. Threepio says some stupid line then waddles over to get a closer look and makes a stupid gesture with his hand(s). This is where Artoo has to make a choice, should I join the darkside? Before making the choice, Artoo plays back some recordings of him and Threepio's many weird adventures. The choice is clear and Artoo keeps shocking Threepio until he trips into a lava pit. Artoo turns on his rocket boosters and flies to Vader's decapitated head. He uses one of his little droid arms and picks up vaders helmet and puts it on himself. Artoo feels the power of the dark force and starts beeping, making little sparks of electricity, jumping and spinning. Artoo then proceeds to kill Luke and have droid/human hybrid babes with Leia (don't ask me how)

Prologue - Begining:
Maul has been training ever since his apparent defeat by OB1. Right after he had fallen, a mysterious droid beeped at him and has constructed him new legs. Maul had been keeping himself anonymous from the emperor with stealth ships and such but now he feels that he is strong enough to defeat Vader and become his apprentice again. Maul does a huge force attack and causes a series of eruption on the volcano planet that he's on. This gets the emperors attention who was in the middle of getting a face lift done by the most gifted doctors in the empire. Vader is in his private bathroom and is subsequently constipated. He is using the dark side of the force to help him squeeze the excrement(s) out from between his mechanized butt cheeks. When he had gained all of these mechanized parts, it granted him greater strenth and prowess in battle, but in the process it had slowed down his bowel movement to a dismal rate. The emperor can sense Vader's anal trauma and force-pushes the excrement(s) from Vader. Vader thanks him and Sidious sends him to seek out and destroy Maul. Meanwhile, Maul is patiently waiting on the planet looking up at the sky and clenching his fist(s). A droid is beeping at him from the shadows (this is the same droid that had given him his legs years before as the beeps we heard then and now are the same. Maul can obviously understand these serious of beeps and replies with "I won't fail you". The droid comes out of the darkness and reveals itself to be R2-D2. He spins around his radar dish and tells (beeps, whichever you prefer) Maul that the force is telling him that Vader draws near. Maul takes out his lightsaber. Artoo starts making another, more louder series of beeps then before (these are obviously supposed to be a sinister laugh) Begun the Maul/Vader duel has!

bILLYgOAT
ohh Holy fuc
Arsenal
that first part was pure copy & paste
the rest was from the mind off a scatt lover....yourself probably.

btw
Arsenal won't win the league even with the the power of dodgy refs or the force
Chelsea all the way
LMFAO

Arsenal
Nah if I copied something I would put a link to where I got it from. I wrote all of that.

bILLYgOAT
you went way off track with the second part, too bad
the first part was good tho smile

Arsenal
This is how Maul would look like with the new legs:
http://www.starwars.com/eu/news/2004/08/img/20040803_bg.jpg

bILLYgOAT
nice pic
luv the beer-belly big grin

too many fosters larger for Mr Maul sick

Jedi-Knight 8k2
Vader would win but Maul will be a worthy foe

Jedi-Knight 8k2
This is the way it would end..........

Vader slices Mauls saber in half and pushes the attack but Maul
spins at a fast rate and counters the blows he is far to quick and
Vader struggles took keep himself balanced. Maul leaps from the
wall Vader swings but missies Maul recoils from the dodge and kicks
Vader who staggers from the hit but in seconds is back to the fight,
Maul flips into the air landing behind Vader, Vader spins around cuting
Maul in the shoulder and bringing him to his knees. Vader then uses
the force to choke Maul into a painful death.

NOTE: The ending is kinda wierd but looking at Maul's death in TPM
when Ob1 just cuts him so easily when Maul could've saved himself
gave me the result i needed.

eXSBass
I reckon Anakin can detroy Maul but Maul will eat Vader. Yeh, they're the same people but you know what i'm talking about,

Bardock42
I actually think Anakin might beat Maul, but Vader would eat him.

bILLYgOAT
naw
vader is way too slow

jedimaster2000
Pure 100% Lightsaber battle (no force powers): Maul would slice and dice Vader.

Force Battle: Vader would crush Maul like an ant.

Force_fan101
Vader is slow but with the force by his side he could toss maul around like a puppet.And we never seen the true side of vader (only the old one.not much imagination in the 70's)Only until episode 3 comes out.

Darth Blender

MistaMandalore
Vader would destroy Maul. His skill with the lightsaber is never really seen. He's holding back with Luke because he doesn't want to kill him. With OBi-Wan I consider the very defensive fighting as just testing Obi-Wan's power..and then when the fight would have gotten good the old man takes one for the team.

Darth_Janus
Wow, what a ridiculous concept. ESB Vader beating anything stronger than Yoda tied to a chair.

- Vader was on artificial respiration. Despite all the badassedness potential people say Anakin has, he still couldn't use the Force to keep his own lungs filled with oxygen. If you think he can move faster via the Force or whatnot, I'd like for you to put an oxygen mask on and run a few laps. If you don't pass out, you might be able to do one or two moves.

- His legs from the knees down are artificial, as is one of his arms. While some people think he could tweak these for an advantage, that's not taking Vader as he is, but rather as you would have him. And if that's the case, let all his opponents have enhanced cyber suits for a fair fight. In any case, this idea is ludicrous. Unless you could find a scientific engineering process that would make the Vader suit faster while still controllable, I'd never ever believe this and neither should anyone else.

- Vader was a middle aged man in ESB with more health problems then a WWII vet out of Okinawa. He quite simply isn't anywhere near as fast as he was, nor as human. His Force affinity has been msotly lost, and in any case it's not like he had to use it all that much after the Jedi Purge. It's not like he had been in a decent fight in the last twenty plus years, either.

- MistaMandalore, you say Vaders skill with a lightsaber is never really seen. You could argue that point for every Jedi and Sith in the series, because we only see a few (if that many) battles for each character, and each of those is limited in length from as small as half a minute to perhaps three or five. None of them are really, honestly enough to base one's complete skill in any case. It would be like seeing two rounds of the Rocky versus Tyson match and saying Tyson wins because he's champ. Let me put this in perspective... -That doesn't make a logical argument statement to support your beliefs.- And that, my friends, makes your words worth a bit less than the air they sailed out on.

Now, allow me to make a few points clearly...

- Maul as we saw him in TPM (Which, I'm assuming, is how he would be entering this duel) was young and agile, healthy and obviously talented enough to warrant being an apprentice to Sidious, no matter his actual pawn like status in the grand scheme of things. He seemed almost at ease for the majority of his battle with Qui Gon, a Jedi master and Form IV master, and Obi Wan Kenobi, who is the ninja of all Jedi, though still a rash padawan. While he did lose (and you can chalk that up to overconfidence and plotline neccessity) you cannot doubt his prowess in battle. Vader, however, hasn't shown us anything even on par with this. And while everyone's gonna jump down my throat with "Well, episode III's gonna change that" blah blah blah, I should remind them that Episode III Anakin is a lot young and substantially more -human- than ESB Vader, and didn't have a clunky ass suit and no peripheral vision in that helmet of his which must have been god awfully hot and bothersome. No wonder he killed people.

Point being, from all I've seen put forth, both in movie context, and few tidbits of knowledge I scrounge from threads here and there, I'd say Maul wins this one. Not utterly and easily, but definately wins.

MistaMandalore
First, you're making technological comparisons of things seen in Star Wars against our own level of science. If in Star Wars they have the ability to destroy planets and clone entire armies I'm thinking they might be just a wee bit ahead of our medical achievements.

Second point. I have no idea how Vader's artificial limbs affect his ability. We just don't know. Perhaps his strikes are stronger instead of being as fast. General Grievous on the other hand looks to have benefited greatly from his implants. Why couldn't Vader?

Third, I've heard the theory that Vader's loss of limbs=loss of midichlorians but I don't know that for certain since Lucas seems to have dropped the whole midi-chlorian bit. (Haven't read the script mind you.) But as far as age goes, Yoda's pretty damn old, the Emperor looks to be well older than Vader was at his death, etc..put a young agile martial artist against a fifty year old master and see who wins.

Fourth, I agree with your point. But saying your opinions are better then mine is pointless. I'm not out to set my opinion in stone just add to the debate.

As far as Maul being superior than Vader. We really don't know. All I do know is that Maul was killed by a padawan learner after killing Qui-Gon (I agree it was a cheap death though) Wheras Vader was killed after having destroyed the Jedi Order and the Sith Master. Pretty big resume' difference there.

DredgeIsDead
Dude Vader anyday, he may not have exhibited much force power, but you know he had it in over abundance. Maul is koo and all, but Vader is the face of fear in the Star Wars Universe.

greyfox2.0
Here is my argument. Darth maul beat both Qui GOn Jin and Obi wan in their fight, it was only when Maul turned away that Obi Wan killed him. If Maul had lived, he would have become even better then he was, which was better than Obi Wan who is Anakin's exact equal in fighting ability, and thus I feel that he would beat Darth Vader in a fare fight. Also, as seen in episode one, where he force pushed Obi Wan into the mining pit, Darth Maul is obviously well versed in the force, at least as much as Vader.

Darth Macabre
I think Vader would just be to slow for the agile Darth Maul. I mean he was beat by Luke in RoTJ, who was still a very young (in terms of experience) jedi knight. Yes you can play it off as he was trying to turn luke rather then kill, which i totally agree with. But the fact still remains what we saw of the two (maul and vader) i believe maul would just jump right over him and slash vader in the back.

Thats my own opinion I'm probably wrong, just stating what i think.

Deadlyshot07
Darth Vader would kill Darth Maul in like 3 minutes.

Sans_Fi
Just imagine, the shot of Vader on Bespin at the begining of the fight, and the shot of Darth Maul against Obi Wan ant the end of their fight....

Maul wins sorry... And i truly thing Darth Maul is a stupid character and Sith, but he was meant just for one thing: lightsaber fight.

lihp123
Darth Vader would kick all over Darth Maul. Vader is just pure power, and I don't care what anyone says about Darth vader being Slow. He is not slow, and the reason he looks slow is because it is an old movie with limited special effects. Vader would deliver powerful blow after powerful blow onto Maul, and perhaps use the force to throw objects at him or choke him, until D.Maul was in peices.

General Zodiac
Vader has this battle. He would do a Dooku in ROTS and just use the force to easily defeat Maul. Or beat him down with his lightsaber.

Darth Zenemij
Vader would easily crush Maul.

viking12344

viking12344

darth yoda
i think maul kool and it wud be a heck of a fight but maul wud win but hardly only cuz of vaders speed

SithHappens
I think Maul would win. As for hi survival, it's more likely than you think. I mean he wouldn't be bleeding and if he could survive the fall he wouldn't even need completly new legs, just some sort of waist that connects his two split halves.

InsaneNoodlyGuy
Vader is weaker then Anaking skywalker COULD have been. Naturally his mechanics hold him back, but not from any midichlorians-lost-to-blood crap. If body mass was a deciding factor in power, yoda would have been the wussiest jedi to live.

What Vader lacks is physical ability. Since he no longer has flesh and blood limps, he can't channel the force through them, thus making him slow compared to a jedi able to use supernatural speed in limps, though not anybody else. (If we use expanded universese's shadow of the empire as an example: Guri was faster then everybody except Luke using the force). This does not actually impact his force ability: the fact he was in ESB able to pick up so many objects to throw at luke was an obvious show that he wasn't weak. For that matter, in episode three, for a guy who'd just been massivly crippled, vader did a good job destroying everything in the med room when he came too. Telekinetically, Telepathically and and all other mental aspects of the force, I suspect ESB vader is much stronger then EP III anakin/vader. This loss of potential has nothing to do with the loss of midichlorians, just the loss of flesh.

Now, looking at his big physical vulnerability, i think it's simple. If Maul can use force lightning (something he never demonstrates ability in), he would most certianly win. Vader could try to block it, but he'd likely loose as he won't be able to breath after the stuff shorts out his life support.

Otherwise, it's already been settled in the star wars comics itself.Since anything is cannon unless Lucas or the movies contradict it to be otherwise, the what if has been delt with: Vader wins, though not easily.

Aduruth
I'm a huge Vader/Anakin fan and Obi-Wan fan but it all depends. What I mean is that if Darth Maul didn't perish in TPM he'd probally rival Vader's and Obi-Wan's talents. But if its TPM Maul the battle goes to Vader and Obi-Wan. But years of experience Maul, the battle would be 50% Maul and 50% the oppenent.

InsaneNoodlyGuy
I dunno. I mean, Maul was raised by sideous from childhood on. He was hardly untrained. And being killed by a padawan, even a strong one, doesn't say much of his mastery. If young obi wan could kill him, it stands to reason he won't be able to stand up to the older more experienced obi wan.

Besides, that's a big what if, since Maul dies, we cant' really gauge how far he would have gotten. I assume for the purposes of this debate we are using TPM maul, in which case I reiterate that Vader wins.

Darth243
in my opinion darth vader is just as good with a lightsaber as everyone else, in fact hes better. Lets see darth maul drag himself out of a pit of molten lava after having his limbs cut off and being maimed by lightsaber strikes. Vader has raw willpower which is why i think he didnt die on mustafar.

DarthMaul9123
yall are forgetting that darth maul would have 3 more years of xpierience by the time that darth vader came along plus Darth maul is a worrier and vader is a lord wich sound more threatening

DarthMaul9123
Yall are foregetting that Darth maul has 3 extra years of x pierience against vader plus Vader is old but lots of stamina i actually think i just wanna c the fight

Darth_Frobo
vader owns him with force powers, maul is a much better swordsman I'd love to see a maul dooku fight. but that's irrelevant vader's beaten mauls spirit in a saber fight and can force choke his ass should need be.

darthrevan89
Wow...I have just read through all these shit ass posts and the only one that make sense is the one by Janus.

Darth_Frobo
In an eu book maul is brought back to fight vader by a cult who beleived that he should have been sids apprentice, vader owns him *sigh* why must eu be so queer.

Darth_Janus
Originally posted by darthrevan89
Wow...I have just read through all these shit ass posts and the only one that make sense is the one by Janus.

Back then, that was usually the case.

DarthMaul9123
dooku what the hell
when did he come in

DarthMaul9123
piece of shit thats what vader is he'd have more expierience with a saber by the time that vader became vader

DarthMaul9123
darth maul could easily kiks his ass

DarthMaul9123
go to my boboa fett forum

Darth_Janus
Originally posted by DarthMaul9123
go to my boboa fett forum

Quit spamming, you little turd... Before I report your ass.

Darth Windu
Lol. . . .

Izmo
dont worry i have reasons. and i believe that maul is stronger in the force. first: he has mastered the double bladed lightsaber which requires huge amount of concentration to control. second: he fought against two jedi knights (i say 2 knights because obi wan becomes a knight right afterwords so lets just call him a knight), killed one of them and the only reason he didnt kill kenobi was because he got cocky, he thought he had kenobi rapped around his finger. that is a flaw in the darkside that u see in all sith but palpatine(and i am sure if i looked hard i could find some cockyness). so that makes him strong in the force. third. people say that when he throws that object in phantom menace, that that is the extent of his power. WRONG! if u read the book on maul, u see that he has all the force powers of any other sith(except for lightning and choke, but i am sure he can do lightning, and choke is just force grab in a certain place). he is a cruel, stealthy, efficiant hunter. also he is totaly devoted to his master so he will fight to the dealth to complete his orders. vader however, is nowhere near as nimble, he may be a good swordsman, but he is still hindered by his suit. and if u bring up the fact that he fought luke in ESB, well yes, but in ROTJ luke (who has had ony partial training, and none, that we have seen, has been lightsaber oriented(except for on the falcon in ANH, but that was more an exersize in how to use the force) totally owns vader, and it is there we see how clumsy that suit makes him. there is actually a comic with a fight between vader and maul, i actually found this board when i was looking for it, i found out about it in this months starwars magazine. and in that comic vader wins. BUT, onlybecause maul got cocky. maul has laid the smack down on vader. vader is on his knees, and as maul is about to deal the killer blow, vader ignites his lightsaber, impaling himself(the machine part) but more mportantly scewering maul as well(again maul was being cocky and feeling in control when really he was not) so i guess in saying that i have weakened my own argument. but i think it brings up a good point: vader would not win because of his force, or his lightsaber skill. he would win because maul gets cocky. oh, and dnt lay that "the chosen one" crud on me.

ESB-1138
Izmo is correct here but didn't Vader defeat a clone of Maul or something?

Gryn Jabar
Yeah, by stabbing through himself. This thread has been done to death.

Darth_Frobo
Maul is simply not stronger in the force then vader all his accomplishments have been minor, Anakin was potentially the best ever even at half power he had much more raw power, if we're including force powers vader would win in a straight up lightsaber duel I'm leaning towards maul however,

-speed doesn't necessarily guarantee victory, anakin was faster then obi but lost, he was faster then dooku and got his arm chopped off, obi was faster then dooku but wasn't nearly as good, many times faster people have lost because of stupidity or a lack of experience, vader owns maul in both respects (smarter, more experienced).

darthsith19
In Darth Vader The Ultimate Guide it says after Vader's injuries Sidious wishes he had Dooku or Maul back, which pretty much means Maul would win this duel.

ESB-1138
I don't think he wanted Dooku cause he would been nearly 100 and too old to continue the Empire and at that point they thought the Jedi were no more so who cares.

DarthMaul9123
sids knew who was the best dooku and maul would be sids best choice plus vader was al suited up and that cult knew that reviving maul would help the empire

Sorgo
Originally posted by ESB-1138
I don't think he wanted Dooku cause he would been nearly 100 and too old to continue the Empire and at that point they thought the Jedi were no more so who cares.

Exactly. Dooku knew this so he basically wanted Anakin to arrest him over to the Council to be judged but Palpatine had other plans.

DarthMaul9123
Originally posted by Sorgo
Exactly. Dooku knew this so he basically wanted Anakin to arrest him over to the Council to be judged but Palpatine had other plans.

but his greed kept him going and wanting more

DarthMaul9123
sids greed also made him want more and more which is why he wanted a new/better apprentace...case in point young skywalker

JenR1215
Maul would had KICKED THE S*** out of Vader. Bcuz at least Maul was made a Master (in time) instead of rushing.

Vader would only win b/c he would probably pulled his famouse "GRIP" and choked the crap out of him... like he does everyone eles.

Darth Maul is more evil than Vader b/c.. oh excuse me "LORD" Vader, b/c all Vader has is kick-ass helmate.. and HEIGHT.. damn he was TALL.

And Maul has the Devilish horns and acrobatic moves... I love a man with horns angel devil

Makashi
Originally posted by ESB-1138
I don't think he wanted Dooku cause he would been nearly 100 and too old to continue the Empire and at that point they thought the Jedi were no more so who cares.

Age dosen't really matter in the SW universe. Dooku would have been perfectly capable at the age of 100. We all seem to forget that the Sith have magic that can keep themselves alive.

Darth Faunus
I won't go that far. Are you argueing that a 100 year-old Dooku could stand up to Anakin in his thirties, forties? In his prime? Doubt it.

Rand al'Thor
Originally posted by Makashi
Age dosen't really matter in the SW universe. Dooku would have been perfectly capable at the age of 100. We all seem to forget that the Sith have magic that can keep themselves alive.
wheelchairwhip=Anakin fighting Dooku when Dooku is a 100.

Darth Faunus
Wait 'till Sorgo comes in. . .

Dienekes
Has anyone here ever actually studied ancient duelling? i thought not. Speed and flashiness are all well and good I suppose, and brute strength is nice enough however the true test of a fighter is hie intellegent. A weak and slow fighter can take down one of superior speed or strength if he outthinks him. Vader is much, much, much smarter than Maul ever was. I'm sorry but this is the truth.

I am the first to admit that maul with his jumps and spins looks kick ass. However in a fight jumps and spins are completely pointless, and actually put yourself in danger when there are much more efficient and deadlier ways of fighting things. I am probably the only person you will ever meet who likes the duels in the orriginal star wars films better than that of the new trilogy. Almost every move they do is pointless with the exception of Qui-Gon during the famous Duel of the Fates (and even then he makes many stupid though cool moves).

in Lucas' Universe the rank of Siths in the movies goes Sidious, Vader, Tyranus, Maul. Vader had more potential than Sidious but Sidious kept him on a tight leash and never taught him anything that could be used against him. Tyranus was not really a Sith he was a political figure. The mark of the dark side is the flaming eyes everyone has them but Tyranus but this is besides the point. Maul was a tool shaped by Sideous to follow orders ranging from burn to fight to kill nothing else. I know of course many maul fans are now swearing at me and calling me a fricken moron but I continue.

Age means nothing in the star wars Universe if anything age makes you faster and stronger in the force. Tyranus who was the most knowledgable of the art of dueling in the movies was over 100 years old. He kicks 2 jedi's ass without going into the infamous Sith Rage.
Saying Vader would loose due to his age is obsurd considering he died at 45 (do the math he was 21 at RotS, Luke was 19 at NH, and the war takes 5 years).

Deception
Can you do us all a favour? Stop bring up dead threads, its considered spamming

Jonathan Mark
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1448/57vh.jpg

Deception
rofl...stick out tongue

Dienekes
(sorry that was all I could post and I have more to say)

You can see throughout his time on screen that Maul wasn't much of a thinker. His orders were to kill Amidalla that was it. However when the ship was taking off Maul who before was shrouded in mystery blazes forward to attack Qui-Gon and showing him that the Sith had returned. Thus making the Jedi alerted to his presence. Then during the battle of Naboo Maul with all the cameras in the palace could have kept track of the progression of the Queen until he could kill her without interference. However what does he do... he formally challenges the two Jedi. Brilliant Maul, just brilliant.

With Vader however (not Aniken who has repeatedly shown that he had even less intellegence than Maul) he is cold and calculating. He toys with Luke to get him to join him in his unending plot to kill the Emperor but when Luke does piss him off in one move he disarms him. Luke was supposed to be at this time better than most Jedi who trained for their lives in lightsabership (according to Lucas, rolleyes1 who can't keep a fricken story straight). Also according to Lucas by RotJ Luke was relatively equal to Windu in swordsmanship and Vader was still more powerful but did not want to kill his son. This should be obvious to viewers that he didn't use his full strength because when Luke was just standing their a single thought could have choked him to death however Vader decides to through his lightsaber thus at the same time giving Luke a chance to get away and even possibly kill him. This follows with Vaders character as a self loathing monster.

A final point until I get into an actual battle which if you made it this far may be wanting to read is this during the orriginal (superior) trilogy Lucas did not have the effects needed to make everything flashy that and the Vader costum was over 200 lbs. There is no way in Hell anyone could act a flashy fight scene out in that monstrousity. Sorry again one last fact really Obi-WAn during his fight with Vader on the Death Star was at the height of his power he wasn't weaker due to age his force adeptness was better and he had trained with the use of his lightsaber throughout his stay on Tatooine. I'm sorry to say Vader had not been that dedicated to his work yet still he defeated Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan knew he could not win and thus sacrificed himself to give Luke a chance to get away.

(little known fact Lucas unintentionally uses several fighting variations during his movies Luke uses a hugpug (ya like Hell thats how you spell it) of lopngsword, broadsword, and saber styles, Vader uses German Claymore style, Ben Konobi and Mace Windu uses saber, Dooku uses rapier and saber, Maul uses quarterstaff, and everyone else (namily Sideous, Yoda, Anniken, Obi-Wan, ect. ) use use nothing but fancy moves that would not be affective in combat. I find this funny that not a single person uses Katana style in something that is supposed to be a science fiction version of two ancient Japanese legends)

Now the battle... We'll say that Maul and Vader both are in a flat room that goes on forever with nothing detering movement. Let the game begin. Maul will emidietly do one of two things either A) look cool and try and intimidate Vader or B) with reckless abandon fly at Vader possibly doing a Jump to pick up momentum. All three fights Vader has been in he has started the same way lightsaber ready to deflect and counter the opponents move standing almost still. We will first go into choice A) I think we are all in agreement Vader will not be intimidated, he is never intimidated. So Maul feeling a little less sure of himself will set his quarterstaff and prepare for battle and he will try spinning to around him to get a better attack on Vader. Vader's suit is supposed to be stronger and faster than Grievous was. Yes, I know it sure as Hell doen't look like he does in the movie but that's what the suit is supposed to do. So I will plod on. Because I don't want a string of arguments I will say that Maul is faster than Vader (this is probably accurate anyhow). However as I stated earlier speed is not greater than strength intellegence beats them both. Those who disagree with me I will point out that on average the fast guy is more intelligent than the strong guy. Everyone can picture the big strong brute with out anything resembling intelligence there are not many stupid fast fighters they do exist there just aren't many. Vader whould parry both Maul's attacks and make strikes to hit Mauls unprotected body. Maul during his fighting leaves his body completely open just watch the movies to see this however he uses the force to parry blows that should have cleaved him in half. So he blocks Vader's strikes. Maul then does a fancy strike that Vader agin parries. Maul will most likely get itchy here (this is a term I just made up that means he is starting to go more into a rage making be even more physical and less skill). He will try and kick Vader as he did numberless times. If Vader doen't cleave off his foot as it comes at him Maul will have a successful hit. We all remember when Obi-Wan tried to kick Grievous picture that but with the flat of ones foot. It won't hurt as much but it won't do anything. Maul will know be furious and with all fighters in rage he will get sloppy. And when he does Vader will be right their to mop him up.

And now option B) Maul goes full out in the beginning. This has some advantages because it doesn't give Vader a chance to completely not acknowledge an intimidation attempt. If Maul jumps into the air Vader will side parry through Maul off balance and then while he's focused on balance choke the bugger. As far as I know there is no way to cancel out being choked, being able to distract the choker may be a way to do it however if Obi-Wan's jump slice is anything to lay accounts on Maul will not have the brain capacity to figure out a way to distract Vader. Wow that one was short. If Maul doesn't jump and merely charges Vader there is a chance that Maul might get to Vader before Vader has a chance to react. I doubt it but it is possible. I seriously doubt that he will get anything more than a nick on the armor. As shown in ESB nicking Vader's armor will get you nowhere fast. In fact it is never explained in the movies if it is possible to deal any damage to Vaders armor through lightsaber. However in the book Rise of Vader (Or Rise of the Dark Lord I forget exactly the title) his armor does get cut. Vader would get angry and try to disarm Maul. This will most likely end in the splitting of Mauls weapon of choice. If the movies have shown one thing about Vader's fighting is that when he wants to disarm someone he does. Maul is now without weapon he stares at the stumps a second most likely not long enough to give Vader a clean shot but still he does pause. Vader would now have an even bigger advantage to Maul. Let's not give up completely on Maul. Since this an area of no obstructions the only force abilities that Maul could use are lightning and choke. since most Sith but Vader seem to favor lightning I would think that Maul would fall back on that (Mauls a lightning person all right you can tell). Vader would deflect the lightning as Windu has demonstrated possible then seeing the weakness Vader with a few slices would go on the offensive. Anniken was the best offensive fighter the Jedi have ever seen (with possible exception of Windu). I sort of doubt much has changed. With Vader on the offensive and maul without his quarterstaff he would have no hope. Terribly sorry Maul fans. I think he looks cool too but Vader is the chosen one after all. I'm almost possitive the force wouldn't let him die until his task was complete. And since it involved killing Sideous which he did with his last breathe he can't loose.

Pity actually Maul would have made a wonderful tool for Vader if he wasn't so tempremental.

Revolver Ocelot
I skimmed it. A couple things that caught my eye that I did not agree with:
Lucas' Universe the rank of Siths in the movies goes Sidious, Vader, Tyranus, Maul.

And...

Luke was supposed to be at this time better than most Jedi who trained for their lives in lightsabership (according to Lucas, who can't keep a fricken story straight). Also according to Lucas by RotJ Luke was relatively equal to Windu in swordsmanship


I'm wondering, where did you get these figures? Dooku is a finer swordsman than Sidious himself in ROTS; and although not as knowledgeable in Sith lore, is quite powerful in the force as well.

I don't see how Vader's his superior. You can easily make a case for Maul, but not Tyranus.

And got the sources for those Lucas quotes?

Dienekes
You're confusing swordsmanship for overall power. in pure "I know more about who to weild a weapon better" Tyranus all the way. However if you read the RotJ book you realize he's really nothing more than a bumbling idiot with no true Sith power.

The source of these quotes comes from my stock pile of nerdisms. If I see a magazine with the word Star Wars on it I buy it no questions asked. You'd be really surprised during all the interviews how often Lucas contradicts himself.

When you really look into Sideous he wan't much. He's natural force ability was limited and his swordsmanship was second rate. However he was more cunning than the others which is why he gets the rank as ultimate badass of the movies. Why Dooku gets third not second is that he wasn't a Sith truly. He didn't have the conning that Palpatine had or the RAge that Maul had, Vader had both (to a lower degree obviously). Maul I give forth because he was a fricken moron. That's my reasoning. If you disagree please give your reasoning.

My personal belief in why Palpatine wanted Maul and Dooku was because they were tools. Aniken was a tool. Vader however during the time of the Emperor almost had free reign. He proved to be a horrible servent comparably (I wouldn't want a servent who was always trying to kill me would you?). Maul loved and hated Sideous as a father. And Dooku was a political titan who was molded to do Sideous' bidding. I would rather have those.

Revolver Ocelot
Uh huh... Alright, but I thought you were specifically commenting on combat abilities. My mistake.

Lord Mader
It's pretty obvious Vader wins Vader has more experience being a sith than Maul I THINK and Vader could just crush Maul's body by using the force

hord06
How would he exactly crush Maul's body with the force?

Lord Mader
well it's simple really he points out his arm clutches his hand and yea basically choknig him.

In Rots at the end where vader finds out padme is dead he did crush metal and killed the medical droids

nicksmaddog
I've seen some people say that Maul couldn't be that good because he was beat by a padawan, Obi, but, in all reality, he slaughtered both Qui Gon and Obi Won. The only reason he was killed is because he was way too overconfident and he taunted Obi Won when he was hanging in the shaft. He was able to beat 2 jedi, one of them being a master, along with Obi Won, who is about the same skill level, if not better, than Anakin. Darth Vader is very slow, and therefore he is not as good with a lightsaber as he was before the suit. In my opinion, Darth Maul would completely destroy Vader, hands down. There is no comparison.

nicksmaddog
Originally posted by Lord Mader
Vader has more experience being a sith than Maul

Maul was brought up from childhood by Sidious. Vader was converted when he was much older than Maul. How can Vader have more experience at being a sith than Maul?

Lightsnake
Vader does have force crush, he's used it a coupla times. And how old was Maul when he died? I think 22...so, he has a coupla more years as a Sith than Vader...maybe less if we count the gap between ANH and ROTJ

Tarvos
First, I'd like to say please don't bring old threads back. Now, onto the topic, do you think a bumbling idiot with no true Sith power could use Sith Lightning to fling someone across a hangar, or throw a Jedi Master away into a rail?



While this may be true, do you trust some nerds like SuperShadow over Lucas himself?



Yes and no. Yes that Sidious wasn't too great in combat, but his cunning was all but great. No that Dooku wasn't a true Sith and that he had no cunning. Here are some quotes by him:

"Join me, and together we shall destroy the Sith!" Do you think he really was going to stop the Sith? He was obviously using Obi-Wan to help him destroy Sidious, then become the Sith himself.

"Master Kenobi, I'm disappointed. Yoda holds you on such high esteem." If that isn't a taunt, then I don't know what is.

"Drop your swords. We don't want to cause a mess in front of the Chancellor, do we?" Confidence.

Now, these quotes contain these things: Sinister, taunts, confidence, calm, power-hungry. These ARE the traits of a Sith.

Dienekes
have you read the book version of RotS? Dooku was never trained to be truly immersed in the Dark Side as were Maul, Sidious, and Vader. Yes he's evil but there is a difference between being an evil jedi who can use the Dark Side and a Sith Lord. In the books it clearly stats that he really doesn't know what's going on. He just does exactly what Sidious says and believes that is for actually in his mind a good cause. Dooku's goal was not power as is every other Sith but the purification of the galaxy were humans obviously are the only ones fit to rule. Unlike Maul and Vader where Sidious confided in them and at the least told them their place in his grand plan Sidious' goal for Dooku was simply to die. He taught him some Sith training but for the most part he was a stand in and a tool whose only purpose was to die for his replacement.

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