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This is the tagline for the film Gattaca by Andrew Nicoll.

It got me thinking... what IS a person's spirit or soul? Is there even such a thing?

Is someone's 'soul' a tangible thing? of course not...

so... if I was to be cloned, surely my spirit could not be cloned also?

Can a person exist without a soul?

scary stuff...

Devil I have no idea what you want to discuss here

oh god. i'm confused.

Well we have no proof that we do have a soul but we have no proof that we don't..anough said really.

Actually, whilst the film had that tagline forced upon it- along with a godawful trailer- the only similar comment made in the film is far more reasonable- that there is no gene for Luck.

Originally posted by DeVi| D0do
This is the tagline for the film Gattaca by Andrew Nicoll.

It got me thinking... what IS a person's spirit or soul? Is there even such a thing?

Is someone's 'soul' a tangible thing? of course not...

so... if I was to be cloned, surely my spirit could not be cloned also?

Can a person exist without a soul?

scary stuff...

To answer your last question; my opinion is, no. However, you have to follow me down a strange path, to understand why I say that. I believe that all things have an entity (kinda like a soul). Even rocks trees and stars have entities. All things in the illusionary world around you extend from the nothingness and have a soul that connects it back into the true reality.

Actually their may well be a number of genes for the Human spirit
We may be differentiated a bit like insects

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/berman/P4S1.htm

http://www.ifgene.org/heaf3.htm

etc. etc.

-Kuntz

soul and spirit concepts are merely ways through which man kind confirms it's desire to prove itself as unique and ireplicable, when it fact it may well not be so at all.
and when mixing gene pools into it...i guess time will tell.

I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a soul
A lot of people think that a person's personality, and nature reveals their soul.
People are so unique because the brain is mostly influenced by a lot of things, like experiences

I don't find myself to be a religiouse person, but i do belive that some religiouse ideals are plausible. Certain ideas within Buddhism and Hinduism seem to fit into my scientific thinking. I have since come to the conclusion that if I could find some scientific (or reasonable philisophical) backing to the existance of the soul, that it would be easier to find a balance between my scientific side and my spiritual side. So, is there any actual proof that the soul exists, or is it simply a tool used by the religiouse machine to suck inocent people into its money hungry grasp?

Plato, drawing on the words of his teacher Socrates, considers the soul as the essence of a person, as that which decides how we act. He considered this essence as an incorporeal occupant of our being.
Aristotle, following Plato, defined the soul as the core essence of a being, but argued against it having a separate existence.

Originally posted by Superfly4000
I don't find myself to be a religiouse person, but i do belive that some religiouse ideals are plausible. Certain ideas within Buddhism and Hinduism seem to fit into my scientific thinking. I have since come to the conclusion that if I could find some scientific (or reasonable philisophical) backing to the existance of the soul, that it would be easier to find a balance between my scientific side and my spiritual side. So, is there any actual proof that the soul exists, or is it simply a tool used by the religiouse machine to suck inocent people into its money hungry grasp?

The soul is an interesting thing. Buddhism has the term entity which is like a soul but not.

If you look for a soul, you will not find one. However, you are more than just you, you belong to a greater group. We humans, all together, act as a unit, just think about inventions; how many time are there more than one inventor for an invention. It's like the information of this invention is ready to be found and more than one person does it.

Every organization of energy acts as a unit. I call this an entity. I am the incarnation of my entity, and this could be called a soul. The big difference is, I don't own my entity, my entity owns me. I am not at the center of my own universe.

Firstly, I applaud that you have a curiosity for spirituality. It shows your mind is full of questions, and you're willing to look. That's potential for a great person.

But you need to rid yourself of thise false idea of religon. Religon is out to get us. Guys aren't sitting around at church rubbing thier hands together, scheming some way for us to be afraid and resenting of them. If that were the case, the church would not have withstood the test of time..

I'm going to be frank with you, evil exsists. Evil is a very large field, but it is weak, and it can easily be countered. People are afraid of "Satanists" or "black magick" and these things do not exsist. Any "Satanist" is just a pathetic little man who feels inaddiquite and wants to use the evil to make himself feel important. Because we asscosiate the devil with fear, manipulation, and raw power.. Clearly someone who doesn't believe they have any sortof power would need seek the devil..

Evil is a peversion of good, the abscence of it's teachings and discipline. Just as darkness lacks any sortof light. When you feel bad, you feel a sense of lacking don't you? A sense of emptyness? THAT's evil, the lack thereoff.. That's why I believe athiesm and agonosticsm is a far more dangerous mindset then "Satanism". Because they live thier lies without purpose and the will to question and aswer. They lack the spiritual drive and are empty inside.

But about your question, the soul. What is the soul? The soul is what you make of it. It's your's dude, your energy, your persona, your emotions, your life. It's up to you what a soul is or is not. Just don't make the mistake of thinking it's not. You're too "good" for that.

Originally posted by Spelljammer
Firstly, I applaud that you have a curiosity for spirituality. It shows your mind is full of questions, and you're willing to look. That's potential for a great person.

But you need to rid yourself of thise false idea of religon. Religon is out to get us. Guys aren't sitting around at church rubbing thier hands together, scheming some way for us to be afraid and resenting of them. If that were the case, the church would not have withstood the test of time..

I'm going to be frank with you, evil exsists. Evil is a very large field, but it is weak, and it can easily be countered. People are afraid of "Satanists" or "black magick" and these things do not exsist. Any "Satanist" is just a pathetic little man who feels inaddiquite and wants to use the evil to make himself feel important. Because we asscosiate the devil with fear, manipulation, and raw power.. Clearly someone who doesn't believe they have any sortof power would need seek the devil..

Evil is a peversion of good, the abscence of it's teachings and discipline. Just as darkness lacks any sortof light. When you feel bad, you feel a sense of lacking don't you? A sense of emptyness? THAT's evil, the lack thereoff.. That's why I believe athiesm and agonosticsm is a far more dangerous mindset then "Satanism". Because they live thier lies without purpose and the will to question and aswer. They lack the spiritual drive and are empty inside.

But about your question, the soul. What is the soul? The soul is what you make of it. It's your's dude, your energy, your persona, your emotions, your life. It's up to you what a soul is or is not. Just don't make the mistake of thinking it's not. You're too "good" for that.

Who are you talking to? Please use quotes or call the person by name. If you are talking to the person who started this thread, I would give one response. But if you are talking to me, then a totally different reply would be forth coming.

Are we talking what people call a soul or a spirit...or are you thinking they are both the same thing.....Soul, for me I think is what makes us all individual personalities type thing....It's part of the Spirit kinda thing...It's apart, but yet has individual qualities.....If you believe reincarnation, I think it's the soul that has the learning experiences, while the spirit is more of a connection to the "The One"....or Entity type thing....Some feel that the soul has contracts to fulfill in each life time...ie experiences for growth...things that were preplanned but not remembered by us...Planned by us...Not for our condemnation, but for a looking back on it once you die, and learning from what you could of done better...No Karma though....

so is there no scientific proof, or even theories that can possibly conclude that there is a soul? To me, the existence of the soul is the core element that all religions are build upon. If it could be proven some how that the soul exists, then the spiritual world would seem more real to me than being a distant idea. I remember the jewish term of the 'divine spark'. Is there any proof of such a divine spark?

Originally posted by Superfly4000
Is there any proof of such a divine spark?
If you need proof, you'll never believe.. Faith comes to those who have spiritual esteem, not those who read textbooks..

But to appease your question, yes there's slight proof. Our bodies run on electromagnetic energy, when we die, the energy vanishes, where does that energy go? Why is it when we die it immideatly escapes us? And is it possible for energy to have a conciounce thought?

that is my problem, i need proof first to have faith in something. faith to me is being blind to the world around you. Knowledge is the enemy of faith. If knowledge were to support faith and faith support knowledge, then i would be at peace.

Originally posted by Superfly4000
that is my problem, i need proof first to have faith in something. faith to me is being blind to the world around you. Knowledge is the enemy of faith. If knowledge were to support faith and faith support knowledge, then i would be at peace.

You do have faith. How do you know that proof is needed to support the existence of something ? Its because you have faith... or you can prove that ?

Faith is not the enemy of knowledge, it is needed for knowledge, philosophers define knowledge as being "justified beliefs", or beliefs that need to be justified, they can be justified by proof for example.

I wouldn't say that I have faith in knowledge. I question science and mathematics as much as I question religion and spirituality. My problem is that both make sense to me and in order for me to have peace and need them to find a common ground. If the soul does exist as you believe, then there would undoubtedly be a scientific way to find it. But, if the soul only exists if you have faith in its existance, then you have created the soul and the soul did not exist before hand. i am in search of a universal answer to solve all questions from all directions.

Originally posted by Superfly4000
I wouldn't say that I have faith in knowledge. I question science and mathematics as much as I question religion and spirituality. My problem is that both make sense to me and in order for me to have peace and need them to find a common ground. If the soul does exist as you believe, then there would undoubtedly be a scientific way to find it. But, if the soul only exists if you have faith in its existance, then you have created the soul and the soul did not exist before hand. i am in search of a universal answer to solve all questions from all directions.

People have been looking at this question for a long time. Seek out the answers they came up with and with your questioning heart find the answer that works for you. We can not give you that answer, each of us have our own.

If I make up something like the soul, then string theory suggests that the thing (soul or what ever) does now exist in some alternate universe, and if something exists, then it has always existed. Now this is a stretch, but something to think about.

I dont believe in science nor religion. But some aspects of them make perfect since to me. This is why i need both of the seperate peices to become connected to that i can build a sort of faith in an idea and build upon that.

Yeah... I understand what you say, I think our goal is always have faith, or have the intuitive notion of a concept, but to have these we need a lot of concepts, and definitions to help us reaching the goals

Maybe our consciousness is like the quantum and does not possess any single and precise location at all....Maybe sometimes it seems to be inside our heads, and sometimes via the infinite interconnectedness of the quantum landscape, it seems to go elsewhere, as in clairvoyance or astral projection...But in truth it never goes anywhere at all....It simply access whatever perspective on the universe it wants through nonlocal realms...from which it operates.....May be infinite just like the universe and quantum is...all connected...only some realize it.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Maybe our consciousness is like the quantum and does not possess any single and precise location at all....Maybe sometimes it seems to be inside our heads, and sometimes via the infinite interconnectedness of the quantum landscape, it seems to go elsewhere, as in clairvoyance or astral projection...But in truth it never goes anywhere at all....It simply access whatever perspective on the universe it wants through nonlocal realms...from which it operates.....May be infinite just like the universe and quantum is...all connected...only some realize it.


Quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum, quantum.

always liked the blues better

Originally posted by finti
always liked the blues better

Blues + soul = R&B

just blues,.....r&b has turned into singers with voice masturbation

Originally posted by finti
just blues,.....r&b has turned into singers with voice masturbation



Is that what that is called. I've always called it " Oh Sh*t! lets get out of here".

yes thats whats it called, what you suggested is the action R&B leads to

I've heard that the middle of our brain is believed to contain the soul.

No it's in the upper left corner of the brain

No seriously, soul must simply be whatever you feel is the reason you're living and not having a death wish, right? Or, whatever makes you see the meaning in the everyday.

I think the universe is about what WE believe, and everything in it is about what we believe.

So everything is in the mind?

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
I think the universe is about what WE believe, and everything in it is about what we believe. The universe would still exist if we weren't here to believe in it.

The brain is just a receptor of something larger and outside the body, not the originator. Just like your pc monitor is just getting info from your modem.....Only we can see the modem...the monitor is only projecting...not the source....

would this forum count as a psychic connection, since technicaly we are cominicatin here with our minds and not using verbal contact?

Originally posted by Superfly4000
would this forum count as a psychic connection, since technicaly we are cominicatin here with our minds and not using verbal contact?

Oh yeah! I'm using verbal communication, you just can't hear me.

lol

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The universe would still exist if we weren't here to believe in it.

How do we know? It wouldn't need to exist if there was nothing there to experience it. Nobody would be able to see it to know if it's true, and that's why the sky isn't red at night .

Remember this: 'The sky is only blue because that is what we named the color'

Originally posted by Superfly4000
Remember this: 'The sky is only blue because that is what we named the color'

Haha, yes that's true, but the sky should be red at nighttime (according to many of those who believe the big bang. But now we're moving off subject)

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
Haha, yes that's true, but the sky should be red at nighttime (according to many of those who believe the big bang. But now we're moving off subject)

Tell me what the color red has to do with the big bang? Are you talking about redshift . Redshift has nothing to do with the color red, it is the shift in the absorption spectrum toward the red end of the light scale.

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
How do we know? It wouldn't need to exist if there was nothing there to experience it..

How do you know nothing is experiencing it?

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
Nobody would be able to see it to know if it's true


The imagination station...Some of the best things in life are invisible.

We cannot talk about existence of something without linking ourselves to it.

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
How do we know? It wouldn't need to exist if there was nothing there to experience it. Nobody would be able to see it to know if it's true, and that's why the sky isn't red at night .
I eliminate one person the universe still exists.
I eliminate a second. The universe still exists. A third. A fourth.... etc.
Everyone but me is dead. I kill myself.
The universe is destroyed?

yes

NO....energy cannot be destroyed...only changes form.

Esse est percipi - Russel.

In other words: Being is perception.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I eliminate one person the universe still exists.
I eliminate a second. The universe still exists. A third. A fourth.... etc.
Everyone but me is dead. I kill myself.
The universe is destroyed?

Yes, it is destroyed, nobody is there to feel it, nobody is there to believe it is around anymore and everyone will be somewhere else .

I'm the last person there and I shoot myself in femoral artery. My body is still there. I slowly bleed to death. The exact moment I lose consciousness the energy and matter of the universe cease to exist? What if I somehow regain consciousness? The universe all somehow reconstitutes?
Sorry I'm not narcissistic or stupid enough to buy that.

No, the moment you cannot come back the universe will cease to exist. Not "after you've lost consciousness" it will be once your soul has departed the universe completely.

I'm the last person alive, I sever all my cranial nerves except the vagus nerve and manage to give myself a frontal lobotomy. My body is alive but only on reflex. The universe exists or it doesn't?

You're still alive. Aslong as your body can survive your Soul will stay until it can't. And if your soul stays the universe will.

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
You're still alive. Aslong as your body can survive your Soul will stay until it can't. And if your soul stays the universe will.

This is the logic of a child.

Example; Brushing my teeth will prevent cavities so if I brush them harder and more often any cavities I have will go away.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
This is the logic of a child.

Example; Brushing my teeth will prevent cavities so if I brush them harder and more often any cavities I have will go away.

The Bible says that if you think like an innocent child you'd make it to heaven

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
The Bible says that if you think like an innocent child you'd make it to heaven

"Logic of a child" and "thinking like a child" are two different things. "Thinking like a child" is looking at the world and seeing the wonder, "Logic of a child" is putting things together that do not go together. When I say "Logic of a child" or "thinking like a child" I am not saying that you are childish. "Thinking like a child" is a great way to come up with new ideas but you should always step back and us logic to see if the idea works.

So are you against what i said or for?

From what I can surmise he's saying the things that you've said are illogical and/or simplistic.

And how'd does anyone know how the soul works? Or should I say, believe we have one.

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
So are you against what i said or for?

It's not a matter of for or against. Your model violates some basic rules:
1. Perception is not needed for an event to take place.
2. Energy can not be lost only changed.
3. The simpler answer is usually the correct one.

So, here is a simpler answer; If every one dies, then everyone dies and the universe goes on.

Yeah....like I said energy cannot be destroyed, just changes form...

Originally posted by Legend Of Chibi
And how'd does anyone know how the soul works? Or should I say, believe we have one.

Exactly my point

Well I have explained the way, which is the only idea which seems to fit the path, and it's possible.

In quantum physics there is what is called the antropic principle or point of view, that is exaclty the one that nothing would exist if there was no one to observe it. Everything is wavefunctions until we become aware of it, and measure it, example, a electron which you put inside a box, is not really inside it until you open it and become aware of it being inside it. If no one was here to observe the universe it would be a giant wavefunction, it would be a possibility, not reality, it would be like parallel universes( we are not there to observe them so they are just possibilites).

This do not disagrees with the principle of conservation of the energy.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
In quantum physics there is what is called the antropic principle or point of view, that is exaclty the one that nothing would exist if there was no one to observe it. Everything is wavefunctions until we become aware of it, and measure it, example, a electron which you put inside a box, is not really inside it until you open it and become aware of it being inside it. If no one was here to observe the universe it would be a giant wavefunction, it would be a possibility, not reality, it would be like parallel universes( we are not there to observe them so they are just possibilites).

This do not disagrees with the principle of conservation of the energy.

I am aware of that principle but it's often misapplied. Just because you don't know if there is a live or dead cat in the box, does not mean that there is two cats in the box. This only applies to knowing what you know and do not know.

Isn't it interesting that certain atoms can emit two photons simultaneously, which travel away from each other in opposite directions at the speed of the light...The photons are polarized..they travel in angular horizontal, vertical or any angle in between.....When the two photons simultaneously, are fired they stay correlated. When one path is changed using filters such as polarization filters, the other also changes its direction.....It is conceivable that the two photons could have been traveling apart for thousands or millions or more years emitted eons ago by a distant galaxy...It seems clear that any two photons emitted simultaneously remain eternally in COMMUNICATION with one another over great distances and time periods....When in 1982 another experiment was conducted going faster than the speed of light, and the results were crucial and proved one of two things...that 1. Either objective reality simply does not exist beyond the mind of the observer, or 2. Faster than light communications ...meaning communication with the past and the future is theoretically and actually possible.... This was published as "Experimental Tests of Realistic Local Theories via Bell's Theorem."
So, it is possible that events that many experience or see at another vibration level are actually real...just crossing dimensions more like looking at lines drawn on a hexagonal tiled floor that join there paths at times and diverge at other times.....This is somewhat different from parallel universes of Many universes theory..This is more holographic .eternally cool....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Isn't it interesting that certain atoms can emit two photons simultaneously, which travel away from each other in opposite directions at the speed of the light...The photons are polarized..they travel in angular horizontal, vertical or any angle in between.....When the two photons simultaneously, are fired they stay correlated. When one path is changed using filters such as polarization filters, the other also changes its direction.....It is conceivable that the two photons could have been traveling apart for thousands or millions or more years emitted eons ago by a distant galaxy...It seems clear that any two photons emitted simultaneously remain eternally in COMMUNICATION with one another over great distances and time periods....When in 1982 another experiment was conducted going faster than the speed of light, and the results were crucial and proved one of two things...that 1. Either objective reality simply does not exist beyond the mind of the observer, or 2. Faster than light communications ...meaning communication with the past and the future is theoretically and actually possible.... This was published as "Experimental Tests of Realistic Local Theories via Bell's Theorem."
So, it is possible that events that many experience or see at another vibration level are actually real...just crossing dimensions more like looking at lines drawn on a hexagonal tiled floor that join there paths at times and diverge at other times.....This is somewhat different from parallel universes of Many universes theory..This is more holographic .eternally cool....

There is a third possibility, this is my theory; all things extend into the nothingness (or other remote dimensions) so the true nature of the universe is mostly unseen. There is a possibility that the two polarized photons are the same photon. The wave aspect of a photon acts as more than one photon or an infinite number photons. So, a beam of photons emitted one at a time traveling through a slotted grid will have the same wave cancellation as a beam with photons emitted more than one at a time.

The only way I can explain this is as follows; imagine a two dimensional plane, now wrap the plane into a cylinder, I pass a pole through the cylinder at right angles. To a flat lander, the two parts of the pole that intersect the cylinder plane will appear to be polarized in their opposite travel. If I change the direction of one intersection I will change the direction of the other without going faster than light. Now do the same thing with 4 or 5 or 6 dimensions, without going crazy.

I don't think anyone really has the authority to claim real knowledge of the existence and meaning of 'energy', 'soul', 'perception', etc.

You guys are talking real science here

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is a third possibility, this is my theory; all things extend into the nothingness (or other remote dimensions) so the true nature of the universe is mostly unseen. There is a possibility that the two polarized photons are the same photon. The wave aspect of a photon acts as more than one photon or an infinite number photons. So, a beam of photons emitted one at a time traveling through a slotted grid will have the same wave cancellation as a beam with photons emitted more than one at a time.

The only way I can explain this is as follows; imagine a two dimensional plane, now wrap the plane into a cylinder, I pass a pole through the cylinder at right angles. To a flat lander, the two parts of the pole that intersect the cylinder plane will appear to be polarized in their opposite travel. If I change the direction of one intersection I will change the direction of the other without going faster than light. Now do the same thing with 4 or 5 or 6 dimensions, without going crazy.

OH....you made a special circle...... .....Or is that gods wedding ring........

Originally posted by debbiejo
OH....you made a special circle...... .....Or is that gods wedding ring........

Stick and stone will brake my bones, so don't throw sticks and stones.

Hmmmmmm soul......the soul is boundless, infinite, eternal, individual expression and part of each other....It's unique to experience all things, yet captive in this body.

As I learn about biology I find myself wanting to be able to dwell in a big labotory so I could construct a human. Gram from gram, pound from pound. The amino acids and carbon chemichals needed. But still, something would be amiss.. It would just be a lifeless coprse, a large vessel..

The soul is missing..

So what is a soul? I believe a soul is magnificent force of light that go's beyond normal means of energy, this is why even though scientists can clone, the clones are not stable. Because those are artifical souls, so the symbiotes cannot manifest properly and as they break apart, so to does the body being controlled by the lesser-soul..

What purpose would I have to want to create a soul and a person and become God?

Even God must've been very lonely..

i think we have a new Victor Frankestien...

Originally posted by Superfly4000
i think we have a new Victor Frankestien...
Or maybe more like Mr. Burns in treehouse of horror..

SpellJammer: Where else am I suppose to find.. *invisions just the brain part with glasses over thethe front* a suitable brain..
debbiejoe: Ehhh, Simpson's brain will do just nicely sir..

Hmmmm...NO, no........need a brain with more intelligence and a witty since of humor..............Then I can breathe some life into it......

I believe that we could (perhaps) ((meaning its in the realm of possibility)) have a soul.

ok, so how many people believe that animals, plants, or even bacteria have souls? I mean, how far does the whole soul thing go? if only humans have souls its safe to say that we as humans made the idea up to feel special.

I don't know, but everything has the same flow of energy...sub particles.

all life is the same to me. its funny how people rarely even think of the idea that animals have souls. are animals just objects or waht?

Originally posted by Superfly4000
all life is the same to me. its funny how people rarely even think of the idea that animals have souls. are animals just objects or waht?

Yes thats a very valid point, if humans have souls then animals have souls as well, because the only reason that we could have souls is that their is a difference between life and say a human-like AI.

hmm, interesting...

but simply your brain? We have just grew up and been told we have souls.....that does not mean we have one.........sure everyone is different but could that simply be the different mind?

Well?

Originally posted by Superfly4000
I don't find myself to be a religiouse person, but i do belive that some religiouse ideals are plausible. Certain ideas within Buddhism and Hinduism seem to fit into my scientific thinking. I have since come to the conclusion that if I could find some scientific (or reasonable philisophical) backing to the existance of the soul, that it would be easier to find a balance between my scientific side and my spiritual side. So, is there any actual proof that the soul exists, or is it simply a tool used by the religiouse machine to suck inocent people into its money hungry grasp?

In general I would go with your last sentence as a rule. F### religion! Borrow ideas from any source you find useful, as you seem to be doing, but never buy into the whole pretty package. Of course, who am I to lecture Neo. Once I realized that all the truth in the world added up to one big lie, I too started my own journey to discover the truth on my own. Its a little unsteady at times and maybe even a little unsettling sometimes too, but not usually. It takes a warriors courage to face the enormity of this universe and realize how, as a matter of fact, all the spoon fed bull shit we get from cradle-to-grave was all a pack of lies perpetuated down through the ages. I would never go back into the Matrix willingly - never! And I don't care how happy and content the coppertops are, I know first-hand that those dumb smiles on their faces are hollow, reflecting not happiness but lives lived with a sense of quiet desperation.

My recommendation re ur Q about the soul is to see for yourself. Since ur already into budhism/hinduism but clearly have a firm grounding in Science, I would recommend that you experiment. Choose some meditative practice that is not to obtrusive to your daily lifestyle, learn it from someone who is an authority and practice it assiduously for several months up to a year. I have had past experience with "TM" and I can say that I definitely had first-hand experiences that wouldn't have otherwise been possible.

Myself, I don't exactly know what the "soul" is but I'll tell ya, I've had some basic experiences, that were kind of like glimpses into something soo huge, like an incredibly expansive energy reservoir or something, that I'm "down" with the whole concept and reality of some form of "God" or whatever you wanna label it as: maybe "the undifferentiated aesthetic continuum" or "the ultimate ground of being" or the 'first principle". Hey, whatever the label, it's all the same and imo its freaking REAL - and present EVERYWHERE, interpenetrating everyone and everything. You don't even have to reach out, it's just, THERE, always! Anyways, it wasn't anything unpleasant to experience, in fact it was quite the opposite and this kind of "joy" or whatever you wanna call it came over me - and a kind of total relaxation of stress happened too - all during the meditative "exercise". That was quite a few years ago and I want to explore that further. I'm convinced there's "Something" and that it's "Good" and that we are always connected to it and can never not be connected.

The only thing is, chances are, in your whole life you probably wont directly experience this, that is our source of being, unless you get youself quiet and relaxed on a regular basis. It's not that you can "do" anything to make it come, IT has to come to you. All you can do is "prepare the way" so to speak, by following one of these meditative practices which invariably includes mental techniques to clear and settle the mind on a regular basis. Its the regular and persistent practice of these simple mental technologies that is the key. You can't be impatient and can't try to force anything to happen. If you build a "house" thats uncluttered and stress free by yourself in this way, chances are it'll happen for you: If you build it, IT, will come. It's a good thing!

What is the Soul? The (your) soul is who you are in essence; your soul is that which you feel to be your reason for getting out of bed every morning.

Yup, soul is our individuality... it is what make us individual beings... it is what make someone diferent from the external enviroment.

We are all parts of the "whole" though....I feel...just like your cells are part of the "whole" of what you are...

scientist say that everybody uniformly losses 23 grams when you die, interesting huh? but the thing is

what can be lost but never found
Weighs 23 grams but is almost nothing
And has directed humanity by organised religion
and now is tainted

Originally posted by bogen
scientist say that everybody uniformly losses 23 grams when you die, interesting huh? but the thing is

what can be lost but never found
Weighs 23 grams but is almost nothing
And has directed humanity by organised religion
and now is tainted

Air does have height. I don't know if a lung full is 23 grams or not.

I remember that 23 grams thing from a movie. I think the soul is a combination of the physical brain and the personality of the person.

Come on... the soul is not on the physical plane.

Originally posted by mailedbypostman
I remember that 23 grams thing from a movie. I think the soul is a combination of the physical brain and the personality of the person.
21 grams.
Dr. Duncan MacDougall' s results on changes in weight were far from consistent.

So, the Soul weighs about 21 grams then. But that's for normal people. An overweight soul (wise people) weighs about 52 grams! Sorry...just had to.

Seriously though, the soul is what each and every living being (including non-human beings) is in essence.

The "Soul" is an interesting thing....I believe it's the essence and we are all part of it on an individual level... I believe that really we are all one essence in our connection....So really we are all parts of each other...

I think that's kind of a cool thing...If more people realized that we are really all one, maybe we'd start getting some harmony around here.

Yes. All is one solid continuity...

Hmmm. My views on the "soul" don't really fit with the classical image of some sort of essence part of us. To me a soul is nothing more then another name for the whole. I don't see a difference between the mind and "soul" - but then it's the same with the "heart", it's not responsible for emotion, it's a muscle that pumps blood. The brain is a mass of energy and neural pathways. It is the soul - memories, experiences, personality, fears, hopes, aspirations, dreams emotions, all of that - the "soul" isn't some separate part of us, to me it's just another word for the sum of our parts.

Which is what annoys me about arguments that a human clone would have no rights because it has no "soul", or that if a robot became sentient it would have no soul, to grow, to learn, to be sentient. To have memories and personality, that's simply a soul to me, a human clone has just as much "soul" to me as a "normal" human, a sentient robot just as deserving of rights as any other sentient being, not needing some badge of honor, some opinion that a soul makes something real.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I don't see a difference between the mind and "soul" - but then it's the same with the "heart", it's not responsible for emotion, it's a muscle that pumps blood.

I concur; the nonphysical characteristics of an individual, commonly referred to as the "soul," are nothing more than the "mind," an evanescent bi-product of brain functioning.

The concept of a soul itself is difficult to define, because there have been so many different ideas as to what it really is.

Just look at identical twins, many similarities, but definitely 2 distinct people. And they have identical genes. Their spirits/personalities are not identical however.