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I don't really like using this site because it does seem a little biased , but what they are saying was in the LA times ( I read that article before, just couldn't find it again) and we talked about it in class at University, so hes not making it up...

Does this mean that because part of your brain is stimulated you have a perception of God that does not actually exist or does it exist thats just the part of the brain that reacts to a religious experience?

I have some ideas but I want to see what sense you guys make of these articles and this idea of a "God Module"

The idea that part of your brain controls religious experience does not negate the possibility of there being a god, but the fact that the same area of the brain is affected by epileptic siezures and the high number of religious epileptics stengthens the argument that ultra religious people do have something funny in their heads. Or what about the same area of the brain when stimulated causing some people to talk to god, while others experience things like visions of allien abduction? Anyway... read, and learn.... post your comments, I want to hear them.

Heh, actually it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was something to that. People talk about "feeling god inside you" all the time, I've always thought it was just some kind of low level hallucination. Like you want to believe it so bad that your mind makes it true.

well like people through meditation begin to exercise certain connections in their brain that they usually dont use... maybe thats the same for like christians or muslims.

That still doesnt really say much for whether those connections are based on some external reality or, like DR said, you believe in it so bad that your mind makes it true, despite any external truth supporting that.

The only aspect of God that exists solely in our head, is our own concept of him.

...or her.

...or her

That's actually quite interesting...

In the case of epileptics, this may be the reason for many of them becoming obsessed with religion. The researchers came upon these cerebral revelations in the course of studying the brain patterns of certain people with epilepsy. Epileptics who suffer a particular type of seizure are often intensely religious, and are known to report an unusual number of spiritually-oriented visions and obsessions.

Uh, no. I have two members of my direct family who are epileptic and both are stolid atheists. Count them, that's both. Are they to be considered exceptions to this apparent rule? Pfffft.......

Scientists, philosophers and atheists have long argued that God and spirituality are constructs of the human mind

I'm an atheist and although I would argue that God is indeed a figment of the imagination, I would not say that it is from a designated part of the anatomy, like the brain. Isn't the brain a totally different thing to the imagination?

Their findings tentatively suggest that we as a species are genetically programmed to believe in God.

No, we are a species genetically programmed to believe in things that allow us to live our lives more comfortably. If we had no faith in anything we would be even more likely to question life than we are now.

"There may be dedicated neural machinery in the temporal lobes concerned with religion," the research team announced at a conference for the Society for Neuroscience. "This may have evolved to impose order and stability on society."

I am willing to bet that this entire team of researchers convene every single Sunday in their custom built laboratory-cum-church.

or it or they or them or they
is there a higher power why were we put here who knows without one thing there can't be another. without animals there can't be trees without trees there can't be air they all had to come about at around the same time could that have happened by just the world antimatter and matter exploding who can say

I know I won't be the only member to say What?

asking myself questions and don't have to be a male or female who knows it is supposed be beyond our imageination so how do we know who came up with the concept of god don't we gain knowledge through experience so we would have to experience god to know about him we just say what we here crazy fanatics

No, you definitely won't be...

Have you ever seen these?

. FULL STOP

, COMMA

' APOSTROPHE

; SEMI-COLON

: COLON

" SPEECH MARKS

'A' CAPITAL LETTER

'a' SMALL LETTER

*sighs*
girls and understanding just don't mix

You bet your candy .ass they don't, byatch

I can understand just fine when people bother to use punctuation

yes, God only exsists in our head. As does our entire perception of reality.

I don't see a point ending your phrase there, missy! detective

That's because I had a smilie there, genius It looks silly when you have a period and then a smilie.

there is no rule about that, y'know

You do it, too. So nyah!

butineverusepunctuationoranyotherformsofwritingtom
akemyselfmoreclear

*falls over and dies*

See what crap like that does to me?

well, ... no... cause you fell over and died but still could reply... that boggles the mind you know...
how could this happen? how could this ...*head blows up*

Or more commonly referred to as "Lower Case."


To me, this appears to be atheist pushing their beliefs (forgive the use of the word "beliefs" on those who have faith. Which makes me laugh as most athests would feel offended when a religious/spiritual person questions their lack of faith.

If Gods existance is proven to be false, life will be more miserable then ever. There will be nothing left to look forward to. Granted, there will be a life that you live, but you should live life to its fullest in the first place.

Too much time is exhausted on tring to disprove a creator when that could be used to live a full life. If there was not a God, it would be necessary to invent one in the first place.

Please bare in mind that this is the mere opinion of a single man, with some assitence from Voltaire.

In the case of epileptics, this may be the reason for many of them becoming obsessed with religion. The researchers came upon these cerebral revelations in the course of studying the brain patterns of certain people with epilepsy. Epileptics who suffer a particular type of seizure are often intensely religious, and are known to report an unusual number of spiritually-oriented visions and obsessions.




I personally know epileptics who are very relgious... maybe your relatives are the exceptions? It doesnt say all epileptics have this. You know 2 people with epilepsy... not a sufficient number to say that being highly religous is not something experienced by a large number of epileptics. Just not experienced by two. Not a scientific study... 2 people.

Scientists, philosophers and atheists have long argued that God and spirituality are constructs of the human mind



If your immagination doesnt originate from your brain, where does it come from then? The "God Module" is not really a "module" as its name impies, but rather a part of the brain that becomes more active when experiencing religion. Just as parts of your brain become more active while experiencing pain or remembering something from your childhood.

Their findings tentatively suggest that we as a species are genetically programmed to believe in God.



If we have a part of our brain that makes us think that we are talking to God how does that make us not predisposed to have some religious thought? I dont think your comment directly contradicts that statement. Religion was created to answer questions like "where did we come from?" "why are we here?" etc... These answers that Religion gave them, regardless of whether they are true or not, makes them more secure because they "have faith in something"... Religion helps a lot of people more comfortably, not me, but alot of people.

"There may be dedicated neural machinery in the temporal lobes concerned with religion," the research team announced at a conference for the Society for Neuroscience. "This may have evolved to impose order and stability on society."



I dont really get what you were saying here.



Anyway... If you read a little deeper, you would see that the "God Module" did not just encourage Christianity, which we both dont believe in, but also it says that it caused visions in those who believe in Aliens that are typical of those who believe they are abducted by extraterrestrials... meaning that it doesnt mean that we are going to have to be religious because we have this part of our brain, we might just believe really hard in aliens. But, if people have this part of their brain that makes them prone to have these visions or these beliefs... people are more likely to accept stories about God and Jesus, because "they feel like them working within themselves" and they "feel god working through them, etc..." So yeah, I think if that part of the brain does create these feelings of God within us we are more likely to believe in that, than if we didnt feel the presence of god in us... it has nothing really to do with whether he really exists or if it is just how we percieve him. It just affects i guess whether we are more or less likely to believe it.

The quote says people with a certain type of epilepsy who experience a certain type of seizure. That would be a fairly limited number of people, so Syren's family members would be the norm not the exception.

The mind is capable of many things and can be our greatest strength or weakness. So its possible, but I don't think its a physical part of the brain, more like thought processes.

the epileptic I know aint religious at all and that amount up to 3 persons

Thought processes take part in different areas of the brain.


The religious thought supposedly take part in the "God Module"

Every other function has its own physical area which corresponds to a function... i dont find it to surprising that religion has its own area... I dont get why you guys have such a big problem with this idea. Well i guess i do get why... but still. Because its religion it cant have a physical part to it... thats bs. There is an area in your brain that goes off everytime you do or think of something... each kind of though or action uses a diff part.... is it impossible that part of your brain goes off when you think your talking to god?

sounds as far fetched as the idea of a god

be the same as saying that you dont understand why people have such a big problem with the idea of christianity

Hmmmm.....
Part of a person's brain may turn off when they talk to god?

There are some who will take exception to that......

If you were put on a deserted island as an infant and raised by wolves, would God exist in your mind? How would you know about God? What would your brain do then?

I'm actually being more serious than you might think.

Good qeustion. Probably not.....

and that would be different from being raised religiously how?

Hmm, do you mean to ask; what is the difference between being raised by wolves and being raised religiously, as to say, only 'wolves' i.e. 'bad people' would raise their child religiously? That is interesting.

no i just dont see the diffrence, they both howl at the sky

I guess my question is, would believing in God exist in the mind if the world were a perfect place? Not that being raised by wolves is the ideal living situation or anything.

Your mind would probably be wondering why the coconut god has been so cruel or good to you

How do more primitive cultures on islands worship volcanos and stuff.

You are asking the age ole question actually...How did religion start?

Humans need a higher power I think mostly because we think of ourselves above all other creatures because we have the highest intelligence. We are smarter so we have a purpose or something.

Look at the picture! Vision takes part in a certain area of you brain. Sound affects another. Taste and smell take place in another.

This is not only some opinion... or something completely fabricated by athiests to make christians not believe in god.

It is widely accepted by Psychologists that different areas of the brain do different things. They think they found a part of the brain which becomes active when experiencing religious visions... I dont think that idea is nearly as crazy as some guy performing miracles, dying and raising from the dead. I'm sorry. Not even close to as crazy an idea.

And while i wasn't very clear i did say:



I can understand why people dont want to believe religion takes place in a certain part of the brain... I just dont understand why they can accept the fact that every other function happens in different areas of the brain but religion cant. THAT seems hypocritical.

Tired Hiker- I dont know. Some people have twisted interpretations on what exactly those scientific findings mean. I dont agree with everything they say in that article... but I dont understand why it is not possible for there to be some physical part of you connected to religion. That seems to be where a lot of the disagreement is here. Its not "well what does this mean?" its more like "Nope cant be phyisically part of you only in your thoughts..." and I'm saying that I think it could take part in a specific area of the brain. Thats basically what is being said in those studies. The interpretation of it... you cant really interpret anything meaningful from it. Except that it takes place in a certain area and we know where that is. Thats the only conclusion I can really accept based on what I've read. I dont know what that kid would do, Im guessing he would grow up like wolves and do wolve things... maybe he would be spiritual in some way, but who knows.

Real life to religion is like a analog to digital signal

That doesnt really contribute anything to the conversation. If you want to go talk about how great god is, go hang out at youth group or something. If you are trying to make a point that fits in some how to how religion and the anatomy of the human mind, I dont see how. I hate how all the philosphy threads get blown into the atheists verses the church crowd. Please try keep yourself on topic.

Unless your trying to say that Religion is mass produced by Chinese child sweatshop labor, in which case I am just confused.

But I don't. I don't think I need a higher power and I am human. Sure, I needed my mom and dad to raise me, at least someone to bring me up, feed me, clothe me, etc. But now that I'm old enough, I am able to take care of myself. When I'm down, I don't go to God, I talk to my friends or hang out on KMC.

I don't think of myself as being above other creatures either. I don't know why many people do. I never understood that. I don't understand why many people feel they need a leader as well, or to be more powerful than someone else. Sure, if someone is a threat to me physically, I will use whatever power it takes to free myself of their threat toward me. But I don't feel I am smarter just because I do so. I just want to survive and be happy and not put others in harm's way. I don't need God, as harsh as it may sound to some.

I see what you mean. Also, though I may not believe in God, I never cancelled out the idea that God may exist, and I may be wrong. I am comfortible with the fact that I may never know. Maybe I excercise the same part of my brain when I 'hope' for something. In essence, 'hope' is having 'faith' and 'faith' is the basis for believing in God, therefore, me hoping is the same as others believing in God. I see how that part of the brain could be triggered whether it's faith in God, or faith that my car will make it up a steep hill.

dont by french cars then

Persinger has tickled the temporal lobes of more than 900 people before me and has concluded, among other things, that different subjects label this ghostly perception with the names that their cultures have trained them to use - Elijah, Jesus, the Virgin Mary, Mohammed, the Sky Spirit. Some subjects have emerged with Freudian interpretations - describing the presence as one's grandfather, for instance - while others, agnostics with more than a passing faith in UFOs, tell something that sounds more like a standard alien-abduction story.

That was what was said in one of those articles (This is your brain on God) where they were stimulating that area of the brain in test subjects... kind of what you were saying TH. We are all going to interpret this differently... Im not sure exactly how I interpret this, but I find this kind of stuff interesting. Its stuff worth thinking about, especially in the philosphy forum where there are a lot of different arguements going about "does god exist?" or "Bible: fact or fiction?"... its nothing conclusive for either arguement, just something that might need to be taken into account when people are forming their opinions.

french cars...

Why would your knowing religious epileptics constitute as my relatives being the exceptions? Perhaps the epileptics you know are the exceptions. I'm more than willing to accept that my relatives could be the ones who are perhaps a little different, my whole family are indeed quite odd, but why does it have to be this way just because you know epileptics who do believe? And I know perfectly well that knowing two people doesn't mean I have a scientific case, but should I ever need that pointing out again I'll be sure and see you.



We have, I believe, already had a thread that discussed imagination and its existence, where it stems from, how it works etc. Find that, read some other views and then tell me where its origins are.

Imagination, IMO, is made up of experiences we have, memories and images that do, admittedly, take effect inside our brains, but are more of an essence to each individual than a scientific element of the human body.



I was simply arguing against that statement implying that we were genetically programmed to believe in God. As you said, religion may have been specifically created to to answer such questions, and if that is the case then how could we have been programmed this way from the start? More likely we decided this for ourselves, no?

And with regard to the 'laboratory-cum-church' comment, I was really trying to say that I believe those particular researchers to be entirely religious, just an attempt at lightening the atmosphere



The more 'imaginative' people are perhaps the ones who are more likely to be swayed by different concepts of religion than those who are steadfastly straight and narrow, who don't hold much creativity in their minds? Well, I'm creative, I'm imaginative, but I don't believe in a religion personally. I do however have a deep interest in religion and culture that may one day lead to my being completely turned, until then I cannot say

God I love you.

Well, I guess I can't deny that I think I feel the same. And you just told everybody blushing

I...WOT? No, I was amazed at your diatribe.

But..umm...yeah...

As Kerry kicks ass...

And the thing about more imaginative people being more likely to be swayed by religion is such crap...

Did I scare you? Apologies

We know that for sure, being amazingly imaginative ourselves winkiss Twin that you are of mine hug

Yes, that we are...winkiss

No, I'm sure it was all just in my head...

*looks at the thread*

Yeah...must have been.

We'll never know until we die. That's it.

Mhmm, must have been

In an experiment with patients suffering from an unusual form of epilepsy, researchers at the UC San Diego brain and perception laboratory found that the parts of the brain's temporal lobe - which the scientists quickly dubbed the "God module" - may affect how intensely a person responds to religious beliefs.

This article wasn't talking about your family.



The site I found these articles on was www.atheistempire.com

If you think that this is just a bunch of religous scientists trying to justify thier beliefs and this is religiously biased, well I disagree...
If I thought it was advocating religion I would not have posted it

I myself am not religious, and I dont think that the idea of part of your brain controlling religous thought means that god exists... read some of my other posts and I think you will see that.

I think you are missinterpretting what I was trying to say earlier, and have a different interpretation on those scientific findings that I do... thats fine. Just I dont want to be missunderstood when voicing my opinions, it may not have been worded very clearly... I might have to try again.

Apologies TC, I think I must have gotten the wrong end of the stick

Its all good....


I must admit Im not used to being apologized to... I usually completely alienate the other person long before it gets to the apology stage. It feels funny...

but, you get what i was trying to say earlier now though, not that you agree, but you see where i was coming from?

I just want you to know that I printed out your signature and posted it on the wall behind my desk at work. I LOVE! that skit!

As I have stated many times before. It isn't what you hear, it's how loudly you hear it.

^ Capt. Fantastic

I THINK GOD IS IN YOUR HEAD,BECAUSE IF YOU WERE NEVER TOLD OF HIM,YOU WOULD NOT THINK OF HIM,BUT SINCE YOUR TOLD ABOUT HIM THEN HE IS IN YOUR HEAD AND YOU THINKOF HIM.

or drugs really sucks

If god only exists in my head, then if i shoot myself in the head, i have killed god. And hes not much of a powerful god if he can be killed by a bullet.

Try proving that. It might be a little difficult.

It would probably be easier than proving that religion is real... and I mean really prove it.

Might be a little more difficult.

I doubt it. The survying would be hard, as a random American might learn about God, in a non God learing place, and now live in a God learing place. The other just requires a couple books, and some intelligant people. Or, admittedly, a big club. That works too.

i didnt go that site, because honestly, im just too lazy. but to answer the title of this thread, id have to say that it would depend on who youre talking to, i believe that God is real and doesnt just exist only in my head, but youll probably get a totally different answer from the next person who posts in this thread

It helps put the question in context... there is some interesting evidence there on the Human brain and how our brains act to religious experiences

Try this link, the explanation kind of agrees its both

http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehost...georgefile.html

The link died on me.

god exists because u want him to exist, god exists in ur mind, nothing in this world is proof of the existance of god, it is much like relegion, or faith, he exists because people can not bare the thought of him not existing.

this thread looks kinda dead, but i was intrigued by the articles, especially the 3rd and longer one, and enjoyed reading the replies.

I know some of you thought the idea of a "God module" was a bit absurd, but my perspective is that it's at least a plausible explantion. My perspective is a little weird though... I was a pretty hardcore Christian for a number of years. In the third article it talks about how some of the people who's brain was highly active concerning words that are related to "God" and "faith" that section of their brain remained highly preoccupied with the idea even when they were no longer confronted my the words. And I was really frustrated after I stopped believing in Christianity, because logically I didn't have a single reason to believe in it, I mean not one, yet I was obsessed with it. And often times like months later I'd feel overly consumed with god or the idea of god or something, but then I'd be like but wait I have no reason to believe that... so why would I go with it. I was thinking I was just so brainwashed or something, I couldn't get over it, but the idea that there's some kind of religious activity rooted into our brains is at least something to think about.

I actually was talking to a Christian friend some time last year, because oh my gosh my soul's going to rot in hell so they all need to talk to me, but anyway, he was like why don't you believe in God, and bluntly I responded, because god feels like a mental disorder. (Which is interesting in light of the articles.) God to me feels like a bunch of weird head games. You go to church, and you learn more, read the Bible learn more, and you can add new characteristics to the the cool lil dude in your head to make him more real.... God's fully customizable, he's kinda like barbie like that.

By the way I don't recommend giving the same speech to any Christian, because it went over hilariously horrible. Bad. hah.

But back on track before this gets hellishly long. A good friend also went from Christian to Atheist more recently. She comes from a strong Christian home, and her complaint against God is people are always talking about these great experiences but she's never felt anything. ever. she's kind of the opposite of me. and she finds this article really interesting too. partly because she's a biology major and finds neuro science interesting in any aspect, but she feels as i do that hey it may be a bunch of complete b.s. but it is a viable explanation.

So there you go. Make of it what you may. or throw tomatoes, whatever works for you. I think even if they end up falling on their face proving or disproving the sensation of God to a part of the brain, it'll be interesting to see what comes of it.

First God isn't a Him or a Her. He doesn't have a gender. Neither do angels Also, if He's in youre head maybe He put Himself there.l

if the thought of god provides you comfort then by all means believe it doesnt provide me comfort id rather die and have no afterlife because if there is it would suck major ass

no. i'm an infidel. i have no relegious beliefs

If the idea and concept of God and religion has been hammered in to your brain since birth or whatever, it's unlikely that anyone else will ever push you to think otherwise. If you think for yourself, then maybe your faith in God will waver, unless you have credible proof that God exists. A religious experience that has happened to you, not to anyone else. My parents are religious but they didn't hammer religion into my brain like some people, so now I think for myself that there is no God.

A non religious person, raised by non religious people, would have no reason to believe in God. Simply because the idea hasn't been hammered into their head at all.

Sorry if I just made a huge fool of myself, I'm only 13 years old

You didn't make a fool of yourself what you said makes a lot of sense.

God being a figment of our imaginations is still the best explanation I've heard to date.

I made sense... wow...