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Yes I have a reason to ask this question.For one thing at my school which is public our headmaster has us take time in home room to quietly pray to ourselfs for about fifteen mins.
He actlly says ok students it is time to bow your heads and pray to god for a few mintunes.I am not lieing that is what he says.
Now I use this time to think of other stuff but some of my friends don't like it.Do you think it is wrong for this to be going on or not?JM

prayers is a personal matter

^yeah if u dont belive dont say them easy

There is nothing wrong with praying anywhere. If you believe that someone is listening to you, then sit in silence and talk away. I do think that 15 mins is a bit extreme, as 5 mins could suffice.

Setting aside prayer time in school? I have gone to both public and private religious schools... if its a religous school you go to, well you knew what you were getting yourself into... If its a state school, that is unacceptable. Religion doesnt need to be taught in the school... that falls under what the family needs to teach the child, it isn't neccessary to make school time in to prayer time. If the kid wants to pray at school, they should be allowed... but the teacher making 15 mins prayer time infringes the boundary between church and state.... If your not from the US Jackie disregard, and I don't know all the rules in other countries but this is pretty lame as far I am concerned. If they tried pulling that shit on me at my highschool I would have been at the very next school board meeting ready to raise hell.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.

(i paste this wherever applicable)

I think it is wrong.. as said above.. prayer is a personal matter.

I think it's good just to have a few minutes thought to yourself. Even if you're just thinking about how bad the persons dandruff is in front.

No I don't agree with prayer sessions during school. I wouldn't want to have to sit there bored every day for 15 minutes.

Nope, it's stupid. I don't agree with it, athiests and agnostics sit there for 15 minutes being bored and if the principal is religious, chances are he'll be biased against people that don't follow his religion

yeah my principal always say now bow ur heads and prey and im like no

Although I go to a catholic school, and we pray each morning, I don't think they should be mandatory ata public school
If you had wanted religion a part of your day, then why not go to a catholic school?

It is wrong to have "prayer time" in a public school, seeing as it seperates non believers from everyone else. Now, if people want to pray at recess or lunch that's their business. It has no place in a classroom.

School is for learning, not talking to an invisible man who lives in the sky.

hi hi so it is a man

That's it, I'm suing for that sexist remark

Well according to all scriptures and the bible it is a "he". So take that for what you want.

I know
I don't care either way, I mean calling god a person instead of a man doesn't change anything.

I thought the prayers were directed towards JC.

Catholics schools use the cross as their symbol.

If any principal tryed to do that to me there'd be hell to pay from me.
I don't take kind of arrogent people assuming that we all believe the same way they do.

SEPARATION of state and church!

Nonono! No prayers. State should be secular! There is no need to advance culturally accepted delusions.

If people have to talk to imaginary "friends" they can do so during lunch-break!

i reckon the students should have the choice of whether they pray or not

Yeah, obviously they do, but it's not fair to make the rest of the class sit there doing nothing for fifteen minutes while the religious kids pray.

Christ, that's the lamest thing I've heard in a long time. If a kid is religious and wants to pray, he can do so on his own time, during lunch or passing time or something. If my principal told the class to sit and pray for that long, I'd leave the room.

i dont see how its wrong, if america is a "free country", then why cant we pray to our gods? i'm a christian, who are people to deny us our rights?

In public schools it is against the Constitution to have organized prayer. In private schools they can do whatever the hell they want

We're denying you the "right" to force your religious beliefs on others (a right I'm damn sure you won't find in the Constitution).

" I don't believe in Beatles, Ijust believe inme, " John Lennon

I think that living in America means we have the freedom to do whatever we want. The first Amendment is freedom of speech...shouldn't that include prayer? Fifteen minutes is a long time, but every student in every school should be given the right to express themselves privately.

Ive always believed this, and I'll say it again. "State and church should be seperate!!!"

In my primary school, we were forced to sing religious hymn type songs and I still disagree with it. Kids should go to church for religion. THey go to school to be educated, not to have the beliefs of others forced upon them

Yes, state and church SHOULD be separate - but in America it seems like they are very much still together.

Isn't that basically what all education is? To have the beliefs of your teachers and textbooks forced on you?

By the way, I'm all for voluntary prayer in schools.

How can you be anti-Woodrow Wilson? You do realize that there is more to th eworld beyond the borders of our country, right? Anti-Woodrow Wilson..that's just silly.

And yes, Education is the forcing of ideals upon people. But the difference is that education is the dispensing of facts. That's why there is a debate right now about evolution v. creationism. To teach evolution to a student that believes in creationism is infringing on the rights of that family. However, science is fact, just like mathematics. And to futher the point, history is written by the victor.

To address prayer in school, no it shouldn't be allowed. If you want to learn creationism vs evolution or to be allowed to take time away from the entire class to pray, then that student needs to be in private school.

It's a fact that Dinosaurs lived on this planet, that most of them died out at the end of the Cretaceous period, and that mammals eventually became the dominate species type on the planet. These mammals eventually evolved into us.

That's real. It's fact. To assume that the planet is only 6000 years old is crazy. I've heard people say that "god put those fossils there and they're meant to test us, to make sure we have faith!" So, what, dinosaurs existed to amuse the children of the world? It's assanine.

Eh, Woodrow's first year in office, 1913, radically changed the US government.

1. Income Tax Amendment
2. Executive Powers Act
3. Direct Election of Senators Act
4. Encouragement of Judical Activism with the Constitutional Resolves
5. Federal Reserve Act

And his League of Nations/Treaty of Versailles screwed up the 20th Century big time. It helped give us the World War 2, it procted the Bolshevik Revolution (Commies) in Russia, Screwed up the Balkans and the Middle East, etc.

The treaty of Versailles started WW2, the league of Nations didn't. The US voted not to join it and as such it never really gained any power. If the US decided not to join an organization it thought up, then why would the rest of the world have any faith in said organization? Then, after WW2, the whole world, including the US, decided it was an idea worth going for in the form of the UN. Then, President Bush decided that the last 60 years of progress needed to be done away with and thumbed his nose at the international community that makes up the UN.

Well in Scotland, we have this priest dude that sometimes comes into assembly, and I think its unfair cos theres muslim kids and loads of non-christians who aren't warned so they can skip it. they have to sit there and get talked to about the Bible and watch everyone around them pray!

No. Using "beliefs" in this context is desceptive; if your teacher or text-book is teaching "beliefs" that are not in accordance with facts (or the current scholarship), then they're bad teachers and text books. I remember having a lot of facts forced on me in school, but never anybody's beliefs (my civics teacher would offer his personal opinion on a subject, sometimes, but only has his opinion).



Among other things, Woodrow Wilson was an out-spoken racist.

And a sexist.

Religion in schools is wrong in my opinion. There should be no religious schools at all. People should decide if they believe in anything on their own. They should not be force fed religion by either state or parents.

Eh... I don't see anything wrong with private religious academies. You may not like religion but you shouldn't impose that on people who do.

not good.

not bad.


pointless.

As a religious person I don't personally think that prayer should be banned. However, five minutes sounds like a loong time, even for a religious person to be praying.

Oh and *Danni* Christians and Muslims have alot more in common than most people think.

Well I don't know what religion he is but I live next door to this convenient store, and I know the guy that owns it. He's from Bangladesh and one time I went over there and he asked me to watch the store while he prayed and he prayed for longer than 5 minutes. If you are going to have prayer time it would have to be long enough for kids of any religion to complete their rituals, and that's just not fair to those who don't wish to pray.

I was under the impression that it was a sort of 'personal' prayer time i.e. you pray the way you want to. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

No, your right, but if a certain religion's prayer takes longer than the given 5 minutes they would object.

But if their prayers took longer than that, that would seem to show they have structured prayers, like what Muslims have. In which case, they would probably have their own prayer time anyway (at home).
From a Christian point of view, prayers can take as long or as not long as I want them to be.

Exactly so what I am saying is that the given prayer time would cater to Christians and other religions who's prayers could fit but might exclude a religion who's prayers aren't quite that short. Also I saw the guy Ishmael pray.. kid's would get made fun of if they did that in the classroom.

I think her point is that "free time" isn't what you have when you are at school.

This depends on the soceity. In some soceities, almost every person may follow the same religion, or even just the majority. In others, the main religious stance may Atheism or Agnosticm.

You go to school to learn facts. Then you can decide what you believe. They should be taught about the pros and cons of all religions and left to decide on their own

"God has no place between these walls as ..."
I don't remember the rest of the quote, but it's from The Simpsons when Ned Flanders becomes the principle

Surely at least part of being taught about religion is learning about prayer.
What age are the children in this school at? It would really help for the argument.

The eight-to-one U.S. Supreme Court decision in Abington v. Schempp established that, even in the absence of comments, student-led Bible reading and recitation of the Lord's Prayer during school time and under the supervision of public school teachers violated the establishment clause of the First Amendment, as applied to the states through the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Granted, this is not student-led Bible reading, but this is absolutley outrageous. "It is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties."

So in a soceity where all the parents are of one religion, you would say i is stll unacceptable to have prayer in school. I ask again: what age are the children?
Im imagining a scenario where the children are aged 5 to 10ish

i used to go to a primary school where we had to sing prayers everyday, sing?!?! this was not a religious school, yet we all had to sing prayers.

i am not religious in the slightest, i was known as "the bad boy" because i refused to sing prayers.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. I know a Chrisitian freind, who is also a teacher. He says that a short prayer at the end can help to calm the kids down.

no, there is no problem if you go to a private religious school but NOT in a public school. That's the entire point! this is pure discrimination for those that are not religious

There's nothing wrong with a student praying in school, that is THEIR choice to pray or not to pray, however It is not suppose to be an Adult lead prayer only STUDENT lead. You can pray anytime you want in school, but a teacher can NOT make someone pray.

The problem in the UK is that a lot of state schools are church of England or run by a religious denomination. I dont have a prob wit schools having like a minute silence where you can say your own prayers if you want but it should be up to the individual not everybody standing there saying the Lords Prayer.

Then we don't need a moment of silence set aside for prayer. They can do it whenever they want.

^That was the sort of prayers I was promoting.

I remember hearing that in american schools, prayer is banned. Alot of my Chrisitian freinds are just as horrified at that as I am.

oh no, now you'll definitly go to hell

do it when and where you want, but don't bother people with it and not during schooltime

it's also quite discriminating against other religions... they can pray, but what about a muslim? they can't do anything? or non-believes, they get set aside in this cause they have their own views?

K i dont think its right for just a regular school they have religious schools ment for that. Like i went to a catholic school, where catholics go we all followed the same beliefs and religion. i dont think its fair at a regular school, where all different religions go to, and everyone has different believes, have to pray to someone they might not even believe in.

(Especially with secondary education)Why should someone go to a different school because of your beliefs?

Not in public schools. It's in direct violation of seperation of church and state.

It's as simple as that.

thats what personal matter means, noone can deny someone to pray inside of them, out load though is a total different matter alltogether

Perhaps rather than being 'Prayer time', it should be 'Quiet time'?

hmm they shouldnt set of time for it at all, you always find time to pray if you really want do it.
what I wish is that those damn churches got silent church bells

in a public school, it should better be "no time at all", and if you for some bizar reason can't hold it up till you're home, go somewhere during break

You make it sound like going to the toilet.

I go back to my earlier point. Quiet time at the end of a lesson calms down the children.

well, some ideas that religions have, should get flushed down

prayer under any form should not be used to calm children down, society battled for many centuries to seperate state and church, lets NOT mix them yet again

Frodo: Perhaps rather than being 'Prayer time', it should be 'Quiet time'?

It's moment of silence, not prayer time. You have the choice to pray at that time, or just think, sit there in silence. NOthing wrong w/that, it's not making anyone pray. In public school as long as it's student lead, they can pray out loud, but a teacher can not lead it, they also have "See You at the Pole", all the kids meet at the flag pole, normally before school and a student speaks, and then a student leads them in prayer.

Why should they set a special time for kids to pray in class? I just don't see the need. How many times do you suddenly feel the need to pray in the middle of class.. I mean come on. Why not pray at lunch time? Or during free time a teacher assigns.. since prayer would be something the kid does in their head and not out loud, why should everyone else have to shut up so they can pray?

It's NOT prayer time, it's a moment of silence, YOU can use that time however you want. It does quiet the kids down if they are rowdy, they don't have to pray, they can just sit there, and it's only a MOMENT, not long at all.

the government is going overboard trying to rid of religion in their context already. can't they concentrate on better things!?

Agree w/you Miahera

OK but you can't really use that time however you want because you're not allowed to talk. And I still don't understand why the kids need a designated moment of silence if they are just going to pray in their heads. What's stopping them from doing it at lunch or any other free time when they are free to do what they want? And I'm still going to think of it as prayer time if they are going to have a mandatory moment of silence as a substitute for school prayer.

You can think of it anyway you want, but it's still just a "moment of silence", which in alot of cases it does calm the kids down if they are rowdy. They can think about their behavior, work, just rest, or pray, but any way you look at it, it does calm kids down.

We have the pledge of allegiance every day... doesn't calm anybody down just shuts them up for 30 seconds.. sometimes. But we only shut up so the pledge can be said. We either shut up or say the pledge. Just like in this "moment of silence," we would either only shut up so others can pray. And I still want to know what is stopping these kids from praying anytime they want? If they really want to pray that bad are they seriously going to wait for us to assign them a moment of silence? They could pray in their heads in the middle of class.. nobody would know the difference.

I hate the pledge and "Moment of Silence". I have no problem with respecting my country but people go ballisitic if you decide not to do it one day. And the latter is an excuse for praying where I live (Texas). Just get rid of it, it wastes time.

They actually made it law here in Illinois that in high school you're required to say the pledge everyday...total BS, I think. I NEVER once said it in the two years I was in high school after that law was made. Why? Because mindlessly repeating words doesn't make you patriotic, it makes you a mindless drone.

This "moment of silence" at the end of a class thing is crap, too. Why waste a minute or two to "calm the kids down" when it could be used productively to finish up a lesson or answer questions?

Prayer has no place in a public school. If you want to pray, do it before or after school, or during lunch or between classes. Don't make everyone else waste their class time while you pray.

Thats interesting. We have nothing like that in Australia, although theoretically I have no problem of prayer in schools, except if its forced on those that don't wish to.

here, in catholic schools, there are barely any prayers anymore... a good thing luckily... but to get those conservative americans to chance their ways you need more than just patience

Chance their ways? What do you need then? And will it work on the conservatives in Europe, as well?

I don't mind the pledge. Here you aren't required to say it by law but they expect you to at least shut up during it.... which a lot of people don't anyways. Most people just stand up and don't say anything... that's what I do. I don't think it makes me a mindless drone I think it makes me respectful.

I'm not going to say that I'm against praying in public schools. But seriously it all depends. If you strongly believe in God, then yes it's fine for you to pray, but no one has the right to force you into praying if you don't believe.

no one has the right either to tell that they can go spend time DURING class for praying! certainly not in a public school

just the traditional thing of world power and such

I don't mind if kids pray on there own terms... how are you gonna stop them? You can't tell them not to pray.. but I just don't see the need for a certain time that pray will be allowed. Let them pray whenever they want as long as they do it in their head.

its a moment of silence lol not prayer time

Why do we need a moment of silence then if not for prayer?

it calms kids down for starters.

So they should have a mandatory moment of silence for the whole school to "calm kids down?" I don't think so. Each teacher should be in charge of when their students are/aren't allowed to talk, so they can "calm them down" whenever they want. Besides, a moment of silence doesn't really calm people down.. just pauses their conversations. Like I said.. the pledge never calms people down in any of my classes.

You can say it's to calm kids down all you want, if it wasn't for a lack of prayer in public schools this "moment of silence" wouldn't even be an issue.

who said the pledge calmed people down?
If there's ever been a need for calming down kids in our schools systems, now is the time. There's more violence, school shootings.... and how exactly is a moment of silence hurting anyone?

It's not.. but it sure as hell isn't going to stop school shootings. Just because it wont hurt anyone doesn't make it a good thing. I feel it's just pointless and so far I haven't seen a single reason why it's necessary. And nobody said the pledge calmed people down but that's basically the same thing.. stop talking for 30 seconds (or say the pledge.) If that doesn't calm kids down, why would a moment of silence? And we have had moments of silence in school... we had one a few weeks ago but we only have them when a tragedy occurs.. having them everyday is just pointless.

which is still a lot of bull

you need to silence kids down at the END of a lesson? why? a minute or two later they have a break of something so they won't be silent there...
a teacher has to spend his/her time wisely, as silver said, by answering questions, going over a difficult thing one more time etc.
NOT losing time by giving "silent time" which is just the same as praying-time no matter how you turn it. It is called that cause if it was called praying, it would be illegal

I wonder what the kids think about during "silent time?"

You can't deny such a thing, but you can't lawfully impose it, either. That's all I meant.

I talk. **** silent time. Its only purpose is for prayer, anyone can see that.

In my school we had a moment of silence when one of the students died.

thats being very respectful to do that

THAT is silent time. That is when there should be a silent time. Only then.

having a moment of silence doesn't hurt anyone, so why is so many having a prblem w/it?

Where I live, in Texas, the reason for this silent time is to pray. No one ever says that, but they have the silent time to pray. In my first-hand experience, it does not calm any kids down, although we have good kids around here. And living in the "Bible Belt", you can tell when something is influenced by the majority. The majority are Catholic, and the silent time is there to pray. Ah hell, I'm Christian, and I pray sometimes during silent time. But I hate it because it directly favors the Catholic population, and no one else. It also wastes school time, and school time is not pray time when you are in a public school.

nothing to add there, MC Mike, good recap of the general objection

It's not like I object to silence.. I just don't see the necessity for a mandatory moment of silence in all schools.. I've yet to hear one good reason for it.

^To be honest, I'm starting to lean towards the viewpoint some people have : prayers arn't necessary during school time. But I still strongly object to prayer being banned in school.

I don't see how they could ban it. It's already restricted that you can't discuss religion in school.. but that doesn't mean if the kid wants to pray in their head they aren't allowed to... I just don't see why they need a designated time to do that. But doing it out loud is just out of the question. Although I bet if we had free time and some kid started praying nobody would object.. maybe look at them a little weird but I can't see the teacher telling them to shut up if it's during free time.

Free time? In high school?

Yeah.. like when the teacher doesn't feel like teaching and the students don't feel like learning.. and we sort of just sit there and get dumber.

I've heard about American kids who cannot pray out loud in school. You're not allowed to discuss religion in shcool? What sort of Nazis are teachers these days?

not discussing religion makes you a nazi?

then surely being a shortminded, one visioned religious nut makes you one too of course

Well in NC they have bible study as a optional elective.. and they still can't say God does/doesn't exist. You aren't allowed to discuss religion as in discussing your personal beliefs.. discussing the facts about religion in history or something is different. It's not being nazi.. it's called being respectful. The teachers don't personally choose it either.. it's the rules. And kids shouldn't be allowed to pray out loud in school.

There is strictly no religion in school. Outer electives, maybe, but you can't just have actual religious classes, that would defeat the purpose of religious freedom. Why? The trend would be for the majority, Catholics here, to go to that class, thereby outcasting other religions. If they have there own classes, the majority feels superior regardless.

Who sits in front of you???

Thanks. That has explained alot about it.

i pray everyday for school to be over

Its bad, because there are so many religions, and it would take way to much time

It's fine to pray in a public school, as long as you don't go around spreading 'the word of god' around to other people. I mean, come on, if the bible was really the word of god, I would devote my life to it, but I'm not a retard who believes in a church which exists solely to control and extort people. It's fine if other people do it though, it's their life not mine. If you want to live a boring ass life and give all your money away, go ahead. I'll be partying my ass off!

I'd just like to add that that's what religious private schools are for. Religious people who want their kids to learn about religion.

Private religious schools are usually run by a denomination in order to teach their way and only their way, in other words really brainwash and drill the school student into the doctrine of the denomination

You cant discuss religion in school? dont you have religious studies or anything? Religious studies is how i learnt about other religions. Surely it would be better to inform everybodya about each others religion so you can understand it and respect it more than if you make up your mind based on opinions.

why should we respect a religion?

well you should respect the people who choose to be part of that religion. I just think its stupid that you're not allowed to discuss religion in school.

people devoted to a religion usually doesnt hold to much respect for those who have a different view than them.

if you want to discuss religion in school, go to a private one and get brainwashed there... leave the public schools alone, then there are at least some sensible persons left

well, we have religion at school and I go to a public one. Our teacher is a priest, and he's a total jerk, he is still living two centuries ago, he claims all crazy stuff like no sex before marriage, no divorces, that women shouldn't work etc. I think religion shouldn't be taught, cause it's a private matter of each person, why the feck do I have to sit exams saying God is good if I don't believe in God?

and for the record, I went to a private (non religion) school too, and there STILL was a class of religion there disgust

in the end I have managed to fight with all my religion teachers rolleyes1

cause they push up the average on your report card: just say that god is good, men evil and that we should worship him every damn second and get an A++

It's not that your not allow to talk to other students about it.. or that teachers can't mention a religion.. I think I worded it wrong. It's just that you can't have lesson plans about any religion's Gods and the teachers can't tell kids whether or not God exists.. stuff like that. They just tell us to keep our religious beliefs to ourselves to avoid conflicts over the issue. And they're right... people shouldn't be preaching their religious beliefs at school.

You can talk about religion in school, a teacher can NOT bring it up, but a student can, and a student can also pray anytime (No, not during a test LOL or during the teacher teaching, when they have free time or at lunch, or recess). It is respectful to show respect of other peoples beliefs, I've seen catholics do things, that I don't do or would do, and I've never thought anything about it, thats them doing it, we even had a foreign exchange catholic student and he came to our church and when he went to the altar to pray, he did (I don't know what it's called sorry) but He did the hand thing on his chest. No one in my church thought anything about it, cause that was his belief, everyone was very respectful.

Those stupid liberals need to leave those kids alone to practice ther faith.

The issue is not preventing students from practicing their faith, but preventing the school from forcing everyone else to practice it along with them.

yeah Adam said it, right on man

I'm utterly convinced that argument was only for Catholics.

it is also respectful to just shut it, swallow your pride and recognise that not everyone has a religion: it fires both ways (and this is a general comment, not aimed at you)
you want respect for them, then respect them back and realise that during class there is no time for a god to butt in... he waited a heck of a time to send his son, it won't kill him to wait two minutes more so the kid can "talk" to him during recess

i agree, but some schools are suspending students for even saying "merry christmas" to each other, because CHRISTmas is a "christian" holliday, yet those same schools are allowing kids to put up decorations dealing with jewish, buddhist, and islamic beliefs.... I could really care less what the government does when it comes form "limiting" religion (as long as it stays out of the churches, etc) but ONLY if it does so to EVERY religion....

no...obviously not everyones the same religion and not everyone even HAS a religion so why force them to pretty much practice something they dont believe?? all my school does is play the national anthem each morning..

Are you serious? Where exactly did that happen? That sounds absolutely ridiculous.. I just can't imagine a school suspending students for saying Merry Christmas.

i dont remember which school it was, but it was on the news.

then you have to look it up

Yes, sufficient proof is necessary to back this claim.