What is real?

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The Omega

forumcrew
ill be a ***** and answer with a question lol

would it really matter or change my life in anyway if i did or did not know it was?

The Omega

forumcrew
well i didnt mean in terms of really having a matrix exsist i mean more along the lines of i cant prove that the earth is real or not.. but it doesnt matter that i cant..

now if i could or could not.. i would care.. if take the red pill

but to simply answer your question... I dont know that it is or isnt

The Omega

neo2
if the world was fake, a good majority of the world would've figured it out by now....then we would all be free minds

AliasNeo15
if i had a choice and i knew it was fake, i would try to get out. Now if i knew wut was going on in the real world, i may reconsider. If i was the one, there's no question i would get out and fulfill my fatethumb up

Metamorphisis
Omega

I would answer as follows:

I can only ascertain the existence of the world I know through my own individualistic experiences. So, while I may never know THE truth, I know MY truth. Until a teacher comes to show me a knew manner of which to gain experience I have no choice but to accept what I see and judge it upon my own experiences.

Neo2

If the world was a false reality like the Matrix - just how would half the world realize it's fake exactly?! That's the whole paradox of this situation - it would not be possible.

AliasNeo15
someone could jack in and tell the important people and get them outthumb up

Metamorphisis
AliasNeo15

LlaughingL Yeah, but who's to say that there really is somebody outside of this false reality if it really is a false reality? Also, who's to say that it's a computer program that we are plugged into? Hence the problem. We don't know anything for sure.

neo2
well, i said that assuming that people in that fake reality had seen The Matrix and tried to figure out if that's what was really happening, then they would put two and two together, but u know, I have no idea what I'm talking about so if you don't understand this reply, disregard it....

AliasNeo15
well, wut can i say. if i somone actually came up to me and gave me the info, id prolly think they were insanelaughing out loud

eleveninches
A quote that I adopted a while back:
PERCEPTION IS REALITY!!!

Metamorphisis
Psssst...AliasNeo15 - you're living in a dream world while your body is held in a miniature fusion reactor feeding man made machines with electricity to live.... big grin

forumcrew
because i can tuch it and its all that makes sense.. but i dont know its real maybe when i dream i just step into the real reality.. either way this is the world i live in so i accept it whetever i belive in it or not

Mordecai
It all comes back to belief, its only as real as you make it, my dreams are real, even though they technically hold no physical existence, ofcourse for something to be real, it doesn't have to exist physically, but you should get my jist, whats real all comes back to belief (true belief) which all comes back to the sub-conscious which comes back to suggestion, everything exists within you.

Metamorphisis
Simplistically:

Reality is the perception of self through experience, meditation, and understanding. You make your reality.

Mordecai
Exactly.

The Alpha
Well it is nearly impossible to give a 100% accurate definition of "Real". Everyone will have his own opinions but I hold with meta's saying,

"Reality is the perception of self through experience, meditation, and understanding. You make your reality."

((The_Anomaly))

((The_Anomaly))
we cant know anything.....and thats what makes the matrix so amazing..

dave123
I don't know for sure it's real confused there is no way to prove it

but SOMETHING must be real, if this world isn't, to create the illusion of this world. Even if it is only an illusion creating this world, then something, somewhere, MUST be 'real' in order to give this world.

confused I've confused myself, never mind

Korri
its funny boy!

Numo
Short answer is that you don't.

You think a dream is real only until you wake from it. Whilst in it however your brain tells you that it's real. Applying that logic to the so-called real world, it's real only for as long as your in it. I think i have heard that a religion (but i can't remember which) states that this is a world of illusion and not real at all.

I've said this before but if your brain believes that while your dreaming that it's real life, then perhaps we are equally wrong to believe the world is real whilst were in it.

shaber
What exactly was the 'bug?'

Korri
^ KEANU HATER!

The Omega

Ushgarak
I could be a right pain and introduce a load of Putnam into this and point out that none of you can coherently express the idea that this world is not real...

... but I'll stay simple instead, and go with the Matrix answer. This world is real- I know that by instinct, and I trust my instincts.

That this is a very Star Wars answer is completely coincidence- honest...

The Omega
Ush> There's nothing like a little noodle-baker - compliments of Yoda or not. So what's this Putnam?? (Or who)?

Ushgarak
Hilary Putnam, Mathematician, highly advanced linguistic expert, and modern day philosopher, who pointed out the flaws in the Descartes Evil Demon/Brain in a vat scenario by pointing out that logically speaking we are unable to coherently talk about such things. Unfortunately it gets rather complex from there, but it is based around the attachment between a concept and a peson referring to that concept- or more importing, 'failing to refer' to it, which is what we do whenever we try and talk about any reality outside our own without having experienced it.

Incidentally, this is a philosophy the Matrix esposes- hence "No-one can be told what the Matrix is." That line makes no sense in isolation- WHY can Neo not be told? This whole thing about referral is the explanation.

The Alpha
What if you trust wrong?

Mordecai
What kind of a question is that??

Its just a stupid "what if" question, if i trust my mother you could say the same thing, if i answer a instead of b in a multiple choice question you could say pretty much the same thing.

And there basically is no wrong about this, if he finds comfort and truth within his trust of instincts then there is no wrong.

Numo
Or worse yet you could actually be dead living in the after life and not know it? The usual argument would be that if you were dead you would remember dying. But then how many people remember being born, does mean you weren't?

But then even accepting that, does being dead mean being unreal? To be or not to be?

MovieKiller
If what you said was to be right, I don't think that many people would know... maybe the governments of the world know but I don't think they would be smart enough to tell the people and cause panic... instead they would use this for their advantage.

That is reflected with the similar question "Are we alone?" No one has yet answered that but people think powerful countries know the answer... but those governments won't tell the people.

You got me thinking deeply there buddy smokin'

MovieKiller
To me REAL means everything.

Everything means reality, dreams, and death.

Reality means everything we see, touch, smell, hear, and taste. It does not matter if it is fake, as someone said it before, someone has to know what real is in order to produce any illusion.

Dreams are not real to us, but as someone said it earlier too, it could be the real truth and we are only allowed to enter it when we are tired and sleep.

Death could even be real... it is but I mean the real world we live in. Maybe we are a dream world and in order to enter rthe real one we have to go through life and when we die we enter it.

If I confused you I'm sorry but that is all I can think of what real means. It, to me, means everything, either fake... or REAL.

"PERCEPTION IS 90% OF REALITY" smokin'

Korri
i think i am real confused

then again that may not be the case

Numo
I think therefore I am.

But machines did our thinking for us, would we cease to be real?

The Alpha
I am sorry but i am not satisfied with his answer or i was not able to understand that.

Numo
Hey you guys, Alpha's fighting Mordecai

sum1butno1
What if someone promised you the truth, and gave you some kind of hallucinogen? Would you be able to tell if what you were experiencing was real?

Mordecai
The hallucinogen is real, so is whatever it creates, it may not be the truth, but it is real.

The Omega
Only real for the one suffering from the hallucinations.

We need to define REAL: I don't know how, but it deals with a shared reality, that what I perceive will be perceived by others as well. How it's interpreted is up to the individual brain...

Ushgarak
It is very simple- your comment had no relevance. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. But that is still my answer to Omega's question. I do not think I am wrong, but it is possible I may be- and that is true of pretty much anything anyone says ever.

I say my instincts let me KNOW I am right. Feel free to not believe me- that really makes no difference to me.

Mordecai
So basically, majority rules. no expression

Er, sort of if you get what i mean, its not exactly the right term but hopefully you get what i'm saying.

Numo
Therein lies the problem - shared reality.

All you can be sure of is that you percieve, what you percieve however, even if that includes another person, must also be in doubt.

An example of this: You have a dream that you were talking to a friend. Later on that day you see your friend and you tell them about the dream you had, will that friend say "O'h yes i remember"? I think not.

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