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The goverment to me controls alot of stuff and is pretty powerful!So is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Would it be better if the goverment did not control so much stuff in our lifes?Would we be more free?
What do you guys think?and don't forget to vote!JM

Yeah... Things like narcotics should not be controlled by the government. It is a person's own choice what they do to their body, no matter how stupid what they're doing is. Same with abortion. I also don't like how the government can watch me literally 24/7 if they want to.

One simple question:

What kind of Government are you referring to? Communist? Democratic? Totalitarian?

The US government. Whatever it is.

Yes, of course they do. They control us more than we like to believe, and some people like to tell themselfs that they are free!! Weeeee!

No, not really. Government takes a lot of freedom away from us, and the rest of freedom we have left, the society takes away.

yes, the government controls too much. but we, as a society, are too stoopid to practice whatever freedom is. if you even take away the slightes technicality in a law, it wil be exploited to the extreme. imagine what we could do with "freedom"

I get it now. Well, as an honest answer...no. The U.S. Government might restrict certain things. But in reality is the Interests Groups (that's right kiddies go check Political Science and search for them) and certain organizations do want to control everything I read, watch, and listen to.

Do I have freedom? to a certain extend yeah, I do! This morning I went to buy a cup of coffee and no one stop me from buying it. The other day I walk into a porn shop and no one stop me from entering (I did had to show I.D.). Last Week I was reading some aphorisms by Engels and no one stop me from reading. So is that freedom? For me it is.

Its interests are money.

Bravo WindDancer i agree with you.

Number one government has the power because we gave them the power we elected them do you think you could do a better job.


Lil if you want to see a country where no freedom is allowed go to North Korea. Like i said in this country we are allowed to protest but in other countries we can't.

Also Lil what are you doing to make society better please tell us!!!!!

Thats utter bullshit, and anyone can see that just by reading it. But yeah id do a better job.

When i rule the world....hmmm...it doesnt look very good for the most of you!




OMG!

You couldn't get a clue during clue-mating season in a field full of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the clue mating dance!!

What in the hell are you talking about?! You are allowed to protest, is that how far your freedom goes?

I agree with Lil... And the other thing is, at least here, there have been several incidents in which people were arrested for virtually no reason at all during totally peaceful protests.

The only freedom we have is the "illusion of choice"... we may have small freedoms in our day to day living, but as soon as we try change anything we get things like this

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And that thing about the Gov't having power comes from comes from Locke's view of man in the state of nature and the role of gov't... The government only has power because we give it to them.

We enter a social contract with those who govern us, and while we haven't signed a "contract" we implicitly accept the contract because we haven't left. Anyway, in this Lockean view the government has this power that we gave it, but no extra powers that exceed this idea of Man in the state of nature, meaning that we are not allowed to shoot someone because they steal from us... so the gov't isnt allowed to either, etc.

Basically when we enter this contract we know that we won't be completely free, we know that in order to give the gov't power, we actually have to give up certain rights... ie: not shooting someone who steals from me, but giving up that right to defend myself in order to allow the gov't the power to police and apprehend criminals and punish them for us.

The problem with gov'ts now though is that they are over stepping this power that we have allowed them. Fighting unpopular wars, limiting freedoms of speech and rights to freedom of assembly, rights to privacy, etc.

*exhales*

Or... this:

http://www.freesherman.org/Zac%20Speach002.mp3

^Zack de la Rocha talking about a guy who got arrested for having something on his website... Interesting stuff

Everyone thinks the goverment control the country well let me tell you somethig thay dont, the goverment are only puppets to a more powerful organisation, polotitians are payed by this higher power to deniy everything but i know the truth, this higher power controle everything you do including live or die if you become a threat you all of a sudden go missing........

Wow, sounds like a certain somebody is a little paranoid

Uhh is this a trick question? thats like asking is the color of grass green.

I know this is kind of off-topic, but did you know that they internet watches you while you sleep?

yeah they control the taxes on alcohol so yes they control too much

Yes i am paranoid but its true, the goverment controle nothing, nothing i tell you!

They control the laws....that's just about it.

Thay do not watch us throught the internet thay use satilits and "biometrics" (hope its spelt right) but thay moniter what we do on the internet somewhere someone is reading what i am writing.

I beg to differ!

I thought it was a very common knowledge that in order for government to ''protect you'' on the law bases, it needs to take some of your feedom away.

Second of all, what is Government?

Freedom is just an illusion pulled over your eyes to blind you from the corruption

Notice the way that getting a fishing licence is long and boring (i know i have tyred) this higher power makes it that way so they can fine you when you quite rightly can't be bothered waiting like 7 days for your licence to come throught the post, so you think what the hell i wont get cought then the higher power sends someone to fine you.

Notice when you "Illegally" park a car even though there is no warden around one always seems to appear this is how the higher power makes money as they can see you

The only freedom you have is the freedom within the social prison. Thats it. You are deluded, just like most people are - brought up thinking that they can do whatever they like.

Your government can arrest you and take your supposed freedom away from you on a ''suspition'' of you doing something wrong - bam - no freedom for you anymore.

Lil Bitchiness is right what is this world coming to when you can be arrested on ''suspition'' you could be accused of a crime and be arrested weather guilty or not

You said it "suspect" if you're not then you don't get arrested. Any government will arrest a person under suspicion of a crime. That doesn't mean you actually did it! Unlike in Dictatorships, here you get a lawyer to represent you in a court of law. Freedom is taken away if you are guilty of the crime. Here is where lawyers step in and defend the individual. Try and get some one to represent you in a totaliratian government.

Social Prison? wrong way of putting it here is the proper way; Social Contract. We are all under a social contract in which we all agree that certain liberties are wrong. For example: Stealing, Killing, Torturing, etc..etc.

I guess some people are deluded others are just plain paranoid.

Exactly, any governemtn can - therefore we are not free...are we?

Dicatorship is marely a openly restricting of your freedom as opposed to telling you that you have the freedom of democracy and some kind of freedom. Dictatorship is clear - you have no choice - if you dont like it, tough shit.

Could a persident cheat on an elections where supposedly democrasy is the one of the governemnt policies? I think not.

And yes, social prison - you are brought up one way, and that way you will act and if you do ANYTHING thats out of your normal socialisation its called 'anti-social behaiviour' or deviance.

If a goverment can take away your freedom at any given time - then you are evidently not free. You are as free as a prisoner is free to walk around his cell, or when hes released in the field for a walk - he can walk about anywhere, but that doesnt mean hes free.

Dictatorship? I think America today is a great example of it.

i think more of a mafia run state.

Controll is what the goverment is there for. If you are talking about a democratic goverment then the people have the last say in things. Laws can be made and broken with the peoples voice in a democratic goverment. It may be hard, but is still possible. you cant really blame the goverment for the state of a country, unless of course it is a dictatorship. the people are the ones that decide the state of a country. Sounds like there is to many conspiracy theorists out there.

this has to be THE single funniest post in all my time at KMC hysterical hysterical

If your referring to Public Defenders like here in the US, you are mistaken if you think that they give the defendant a decent chance of proving innocence... granted better than no publice defender, but barely. If you think that America's criminal justice system is founded on Equality and Equal Rights you are wrong. You only get adequate representation if you have the money to afford a fancy lawyer... everyone else gets screwed.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OMG, did you make that up lil b.?

either way, i love it, so consider it stolen

beat you too it! its in my sig now

Dictatorship? I think America today is a great example of it.

Exactly.I could not have said it better myself.Thats something I have always noticed we see eye to eye on Lil.We dont got any freedoms here in the U.S.People who believe that,are just fooling themselves.

Exactly.Very well said Turbo.

lmfao! You put it in your sig! Thats hilarious!!

Two people have quoted me in their sigs JP and Mr Zero.

hah.

I dont remember where that came from.... i must have heard something similar somewhere and just added my own ''clue'' additions.

Sometimes i just say stuff, and sometimes they come out so stupid, and sometimes they make people laugh.

If by freedom you mean I could do ANYTHING I want......then the answer is no. Why? because if we give people freedom to do anything they want then murderers and rapist will go wild and no one will stop them. We are all under the law simply because humans can never act socially without laws.



Nonsense! If that is the case what is the point of education? That's why you educate yourself and learn the truths about government and everyting else in the world! If it was a social prison there wouldn't be ANY form of education. But obviously there is freedom to learn. In a social system you are only taught to be what the government wants you to be. If the government needs more brick layers then that's the only thing they will teach in schools bricks and cement

Oh no! The American Government wants me to only learn a certain profession! BS! I learn what I want to learn and educate myself without any censorship from the government! Gee weez! I guess that since the government is capitalistic they will banned any type of Communist literature.......NEWSFLASH visit any library and you can learn everything you want to know about Communism or any form of anti-capitalism literature!



By taking away my freedom would be to impose so many laws on the citizens that it will make it harder for anyone to live. That's not happening here! There is no law agaisn't walking into a porn shop and buy dvd. There is no law agains't reading anarchist literature. There is no law agaisn't listening to political rock bands. But guess what? Interest groups DO want to take that away from us! Not the government but those people who think what is right for society.



Oh yeah right! If this is a dictatorship then those rich folks at Beverly Hills and 5th avenue in New York are sure under a goverment restrictions. This is a Capitalist nation not a dictatorship try to tell them apart.



Not everybody gets a fair trial there loop holes in the system. But that doesn't mean that every inmate in prison has been trial unfairly. Sorry, but crime does happen and someone did it. To claim that you don't get a fair trial has been used by murderers many times.

Yeah but its suppose to be a government controlled by the people and for the people but its not,its controlled by big businesses and corporations.Thats WHY its NOT a democratic government we have because the people are suppose to have a voice in the government but they DONT because plain and simple,we do have a dictatership government here in the states.Im not a conspiracy theorist,Im just telling it like it is.

There is only one kind of ''freedom'', so lets play your game and look at the dictinary, shall we -

# he condition of being free of restraints.
# Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.
#

1. Political independence.
2. Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly.

# Exemption from an unpleasant or onerous condition: freedom from want.
# The capacity to exercise choice; free will: We have the freedom to do as we please all afternoon.
# A right or the power to engage in certain actions without control or interference






Hmm..are you saying that people in dictatorships dont have education? Are you saying that people in Third reich never had an education?

You ''know'' how much they allow you to know. Please! Do you onestly think that you know something ultra secret about your goverment? (evidently you cant see whats in front of your face, but its just an example)

What did ducation have to do with this, i dont know. I dont even see why you brought it up to be honest...

Do you understand the notion of 'anti-social behaiviour' and 'devience' and 'deliquency'?? Because if you dont, i suggest you look it up, sicne all those terms DO exist and are used in sociology at least.

Still your point is rather silly, since i dont get where the hell did education come in from my point.

And lastly, its rather egoistical for you to constantly talk about what YOU do in AMERICA. Noone cares! America is not the only nation in the world, and even though it might be rather powerfull now - soon it aint gonna be anymore - so get over it, and look at the society or the general point of veiw, or dont bore me with America and what you do there - not interested.






What the hell does going into a porn shop have to do with any fecking thing? Please explain it to me - id love to know.

Is it because you so free that your presied restricted people outside USA to view his website? Oh no, there are people who are engaging their brains - must restrict anyone who thinks for himself!

Oh yeah right! If this is a dictatorship then those rich folks at Beverly Hills and 5th avenue in New York are sure under a goverment restrictions. This is a Capitalist nation not a dictatorship try to tell them apart.





So tell me then, if a leader steals an election and goes into a war in which majority of Americans protested to, is in your book called democrasy?
If your leader watches the books you read and is passing laws such as a ''patroitc act' which restrics your freedom to protect you - thats called democrasy?

You are no safer now than you were 50 years ago - thinking otherwise is rediculous.

No, I said that they teach what they want you to learn. That's what I meant with the brick layer example. Sure the Third Reich had education! They certainly didn't allowed everyone to have it! Right? Jews or anyother person that wasn't Aryan descent wasn't allowed to learn! Here your race doesn't matter!



My example of education is to prove that no matter how tyranical a government might be there will be those that will be aware of the corruption. In a Dictatorship there can only educated people that support the government. If America was a dictatorship then there wouldn't be Doctors that are democrats or Libertarians or even Republicans.



What books are you talking about?



What I do? I wasn't the only entering the place! there was line in order to enter so that means quite a lot people out there shared my taste. That means they also would not like the idea of some interest group trying to censor what we like!




First let me clear something here. I didn't voted for Bush in 2000. In my view he didn't steal the election. Even Democrats and other Independs I talked to don't believe he did. What we agreed is that it was all a political scheme started by Al Gore. Second, as I said many times there are things I agree and don't agree with the President. For me the war should have been about removing Saddam and give a Iraq independence. That wasn't the case so I disagree with the President. He can passed any laws he wants! People will opposed them. At least we can protest in the streets and not get shot! Try that in Communist China! Ever heard of Tiannem Square?



Safer from what? What's so ridicolous to you?

It was wrong of me to get into this debaite because - i'll be away or a week so i cant answer....basically, i'll um this up - super qucikly.

Whats rediculous to me is that you are no saer now than you were 40, 50 years ago when a misile could have been launched and destroyed some of bigger American cities.

Bush telling people that they are not safe and god knows when they'll be, is just rediculous, because hes passing some stupid laws for Amerian people based on something thats not entiraly true.

the question should be...who controls the goverement

Originally posted by Jackie Malfoy
The goverment to me controls alot of stuff and is pretty powerful!So is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Would it be better if the goverment did not control so much stuff in our lifes?Would we be more free?
What do you guys think?and don't forget to vote!JM

Bad news, folks: The last post on KMC by Jackie Malfoy was on 9/27/05. PVS, since you live near her I think you should go try to find her.

Originally posted by botankus
Bad news, folks: The last post on KMC by Jackie Malfoy was on 9/27/05. PVS, since you live near her I think you should go try to find her.

she must have given the dissertation.
so no more use for kmc

Well I am not sure if they control too much...but they certainly do too much and maybe have to muvh power. In my opinion the Governments should only make sure that every citizen survives, one can maybe say that they can also make sure that people live relatively good (Infrastructure and such) ....but not much more....I think everyone should have as much control over their own live as possible....at least the freedom shouldn't be cut beyongd some laws (Murder, Stealing and that like) ...

Originally posted by PVS
she must have given the dissertation.
so no more use for kmc
Welll if her "list" is true...she can't really have worked on a disertation...I mean she probably only saw half of this thread....

She either saw everything or nothing, which is a valid building block for the solid theory that she was either KMC's smartest user or most brainless.

If you think the goverment controls too much you have to ask yourself "what is it I want?"

What do you want to do that you currently can't? The longer you think about that question, the sooner you'll realize either

A) It's probably something criminal.
or B) It's probably something you can do anyway and never thought about it.

The American goverment is one of the most leniant care-free goverments in the world! Hell, we're TOO soft on our people! That's why they're so whiney and panzy waste..

Well, where do you get your 'information' what leads you to reach conclusions about yourself and the world? Who decides what time you get up every workday? Who decides where you go and what you do when you get there? Who decides how you do it? If you are like the overwhelming majority of people currently resident in this dreamworld, those decisions are not made by you at all; they are imposed by the 'system' the spiders web of control that dictates its will upon your ''life''.

You get your 'information' from the mainstream media that sells you the daily falsehoods on which you decide what to think and believe. You have to get up at a certain time because you have to report to work and you cant be late. You go where your bosses tell you to go and you do what they say. If you rebel you get fired and if you dont get paid you cant afford a home or enough to eat. And its not only you. What about your family and others dependent upon you? if you dont serve the system what are the consequences for them? To meet all these percieved needs and responsibilities, you have to spend every day keeping other people happy.

Most people kid themselves that they are free by never testing the theory for real.They are like flies caught in a web and so long as they dont move they can convince themselves that they could if they wanted to. Its just they they dont want to right now. If they tryed they would have to face the fact that their arse is superglued to someone elses control system with dinner about to be served - them. They keep doing what the goverment dictatorships tell them to do, without question or challenge, and perpetuate the illusion that they have free choice by never even making one. Having my wings stuck to this web suits me fine because i am choosing not to fly. As the Orwellian global state emerges rapidly from the shadows, this self deception about a 'free world' is becoming far more difficult to sustain. But instead of staring th eplight in the face, most people try harder to look the other way. Most people are quick to complain about what is happening in their lives and the wider world, yet they are cast in stone when it comes to doing anything about it. Far better it seems to avoid your own responsiblity by blaming someone else.

The world is like it is because we have allowed the few to make it that way and just pointing the finger at those few is not enough. We are all involved in this.

Deano my man, you speak the truth. Society is like a bunchof flies, and the illummnati are like a couple of hungery spiders. Who wield webs of lies and elaborate planning to capture society in it's grasps..

Unfourtanately for myself, I am a fly, who wants so desperately to be a spider.. So I push people into the web, fool them into the web, or just beat the crap out of them.. Why can't I be a spider?! > _ <

so spelljammer, is it now the case that you have given up your
position as "self proclaimed king of the dipshits" and reverted
to nuthugging cheerleader?

My God...she spelled the title correctly (even though she capitalized government)...the end of times are upon us!

actually, many times the mods have corrected her thread title spelling errors.
i would imagine this is one

Originally posted by FeceMan
My God...she spelled the title correctly (even though she capitalized government)...the end of times are upon us!

actually she spelled government 'g-o-v-e-r-m-e-n-t'

Originally posted by PVS
actually, many times the mods have corrected her thread title spelling errors.
i would imagine this is one
Oh. Damnit.

Originally posted by FeceMan
My God...she spelled the title correctly (even though she capitalized government)...the end of times are upon us!

If she's talking aboot the US government, which in her opinion probably is the only government wouldn't capitalizes maybe be right....not sure....(now she misspelled it anyways, but just asking....)

Government is another word for mafia, you Have to pay your Taxes, you Have to work or go down due to lack of funds. If anyone messes with the government then they get locked up or shot by the secret service, or even worse invaded for oil.

Concidering they track EVYER SINGLE PRINT OUT ANYBODY DOES

yes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/18/AR2005101801663.html

Well really the Us is more free then Canada. Up here Liquor is still sold by govt controlled stores and the health care is run by the govt. It varies by province to province. Some are privatized while some are very public.

youd think he would...if he wasnt a dumbass

Originally posted by Filth
Everyone thinks the goverment control the country well let me tell you somethig thay dont, the goverment are only puppets to a more powerful organisation, polotitians are payed by this higher power to deniy everything but i know the truth, this higher power controle everything you do including live or die if you become a threat you all of a sudden go missing........

He's right!

Originally posted by Da preacher
He's right!
He's paranoid!

Why the hell did he get banned AGAIN?

Liberal-bashing?

I was just being ironic.

Originally posted by Da preacher
I was just being ironic.
Fair play. I don't think its in anyone's best interests to trust any authority, but thats maybe a bit far.

Don't ask me how I found this, but (PVS, you reading this?)....Happy Birthday Jackie Malfoy's Sister!

Originally posted by manny321
Well really the Us is more free then Canada. Up here Liquor is still sold by govt controlled stores and the health care is run by the govt. It varies by province to province. Some are privatized while some are very public.

The U.S. is more free then Canada? How does liquor distribution affect freedom? And you believe our health care system detracts from your freedom?

You often make comments about Canadian history, politics, policies or laws and they are either usually wrong or misunderstood. Before you make a comment, please first see if it is true, then get the facts, then see if it is relevant.

this thread is back again? sheesh.I really miss jackie.KMC has never been the same without her.

LOL freedom is all about perspective.......however I do laugh if people dispise this "freedom" allowed to us by any govt then go crawl into the forest and don't use the electricity, go hunt, fish, whatever and stop using the resources I use for your "freedom"

Yes, the true power of control over how we the people are to live our lives is in the hands of the people. The government is trying to do things that are really the responsibility of the people, which is why it is doing such a bad job at it.

Originally posted by Mr Parker
this thread is back again? sheesh.I really miss jackie.KMC has never been the same without her.
Did she leave or get banned?

No she left.If she was banned it would say restricted under her user name and you would not be able to send pm messages to her.