Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who is the greastest martial artist in all of DC.

slade ,shiva,batman

hmm...Is Karate Kid marvel? or DC? I don't remember.

Karate Kid is DC. and he is the greatest DC Martial Artist.

and yes, even Never will tell you that.

Lady Shiva's on the list. Richard Dragon, Batman, Deathstroke, Batgirl, and a few others I can't remember, lol.

Batgirl?

Yes Batgirl, the first person to cleanly beat Lady Shiva. Then again, someone said Batman recently beat Shiva, I don't know much about it though.

so, you just wanted to know who dc's greatest martial artists are?...or are you gonna make a thread of some dc martial artist versus a marvel martial artist??

Havoc470 always thinking ahead but for now lets just focus on the DC'S finest .

I see no body has mensioned Richard Dragon. Where does he fall?

Tron mentioned Richard Dragon.

Karate Kid is THE greatest martial artist in DC. Probably the greatest in both DC AND Marvel. I'll look for a site with information.

I think Cain IE Batgirl is number 1.

Number 2 mmmm I get back to you on that lol.

moving to comic discussion...

Really...


...Batgirl?

lol, i dont know anything about a dc karate kid, but i seriously doubt he's the best from either dc or marvel

yes. BATGIRL. THE CASSANDRA CAI, 5'2 BATGIRL

Nobody's mentioned Green Arrow (the young one) yet. I believe that he is well up there.



In the Batman/Superman Public Enemies story. It wasn't even much of a fight. But Lady Shiva is generally supposed to be better than Batman, so that might have just been bad writing (in an otherwise good storyline).

If you son't know anything about him, why would make a comment like that?

Karate Kid is the greatest martial artist, period. Never posts why here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=294413&highlight=karate+kid

and his bio is here: http://dccomics.com/secret_files/dc_character.html?sc_dc_itemCode=karatekid

Karate Kid is 1. Lady Shiva is 2. Batgirl II is 3. Batman is 4.

Lady Shiva and Batgirl II are arguably interchangable.

Karate Kid however, is the best. You can't hold your own against Superboy, and suck. Karate Kid doesn't have any actual superpowers by the way, which makes the feat that much more impressive.

Batman

Where do Azrael and Ra's Al Ghul fit in?

http://www.dccomics.com/secret_files/dc_character.html?sc_dc_itemCode=karatekid

Huntress, maybe, no?

uh i don't think Ra's Al Ghul fits anywhere in here...

Has Karate kid met any of the above-mentioned fighters? Shiva, Bats?

And again, BATGIRL-aka-Cassandra CAin is majorly kickass....stop thinking about Barbara Gordon-aka-former BATGIRL-now-ORACLE-strapped to wheelchair....:P

Others to think about : Connor Hawke (Green Arrow), Bronze Tiger, Deathstroke, Nightwing

Nightwing wasnt even a match for Azrael..... so I think Bats is way better than him

I think Ra Al Gul can hold his own. Just give him his sword.

Ask for batgirl (cassandra cain) being better than batman in martial arts does not hold any grounds for me.
If anything else batman is better than her. And maybe better or equal to shiva.

Shiva is pretty good... thats why batman hired her to train him before he went up against Azrael. I also dont agree on Batgirl being better than Shiva... after all shiva, being a vampire has other advantages

What? Who is a vampire?

Yea, are you implying that lady shiva is a vampire?

This is a thread of for martial artist, not who has the best powers that make them better at fighting. You can put superman in hear if your gonna base it on powers.

And Ras would be near the top if it was who was best with a sword. I might argue this one because it is martial skill (hardly anyone could do what he does with a sword.)

I still don't beleive batgirl deserves to be on this list.

If you put Lady shiva in hear then you should put Ras too. He's better with a sword.

Batman has his place up there too.

You can believe what you want about Batgirl, she's still one of the best, and I doubt that your disbelief is going to change that.

So lady shiva is a vampire? Can some please tell me!!

when did Shiva become a vampire?

And whoever doens't know how deadly Batgirl (Cain) is are seriously behind the times...the NEW BATGIRL.

Mr. Famous, you have to tell us the deal on who the vampire is. You are killing us. Also, does anyone know if Batman and Batgirl(Cain) ever fought? If so, what happened?

Remember when Shiva started training Batman before he went up against Azrael? She went to one of the old martial arts masters and he kept saying that although she was a vampire, she had peverted this gift of immortality by fighting for the challenge or something like that. I'll post the page here soon so u guys can see for urself... It was part of the Knightsend series (mask of the bat, i think).

I cant find anything on the net that supports what I claim... but I'll post the page here so u can judge for yourself

I found what you are talking about. An "unarmed" master told Shiva "You are a vampire, perverting a gift which could make you immortal." I believed he used vampire only as an insult. He probably thinks she is a blood sucking b*tch. I think he was referring to her skills as a martial artist, when he said gift. By saying immortal, I think he was talking about how people will remember her after her death. I don't think any of it was literal and Shiva is just a person. Of course, I may be wrong. If you find anything let me know.

Irrelevant. Karate Kid has held his own against SUPERBOY in hand to hand combat.

Superboy can destroy any other martial artist in DC in hand to hand combat.

Let it go everyone. The argument now is about who is second best, Karate Kid holds the top position. Period. Don't make me start looking up issues and incredible feats of skill.

Second place probably goes to Cassandra, then Lady Shive, then Batman, then anyone else.

SpyCspider, looks like you won't be getting your answer from Aracknoidfreak.

Who's Cassandra?

Cassandra Cain--Batgirl. Raised by David Cain to be a perfect assassin, Cassandra never learned to speak, because Cain thought it would distract her from learning how to fight. However, she could read the body language of her opponents perfectly, allowing her to guess their moves before they themselves realized what they were. After her first kill, Cassandra ran away to Gotham, where she was recruited by Oracle (Barbera Gordan, the original Batgirl) durring No Man's Land.

let me weigh in.
a. no, Lady Shiva is not a vampire
b. while it has been generally accepted that she is premier martial artist it is really only from a global point of view.
c. being dubbed the World's greatest h2h combatant isnt all that cuz i read in the encyclopedia of batman the he has mastered every martial form known to man. so by that reasoning he should be her equal.
d. i recently read a very old issue of Birds of Prey and there was this guy who bested shiva, i cant remember his name but he has the power of precognition, thus enabling him to see her moves b4 she throws them.
e.Karate kid is the greatest martial artist cuz he roams GALAXIES seeking new techinques, AND MASTERED MOST OF THEM.

New List is as follows: in this particular order(at least in my opinion)
1. Karate Kid
2. Lady Shiva
3. Slade(especially due to his genetic enhancements)
3.5 Batman
4. Batgirl(Cain)
5. Cain himself
6. The Robins(All of them)
7. Connor Hawke(green arrow's son)
8. Black Canary
9. Catwoman
10. Huntress

R`as Alghul is up there but he's more of a swordsman so he would be in the swordsman category, and he can easily wipe the floor with half the list.

you can also make a case for Fatality, but she would more be in the ulitmate warrior category rather than Martial Artist, cuz she definitaely could wipe the floor with half the people on the list(look her up if you dont know who she is)

any other martial artist who isnt in the top ten is irrelevant. they just boil down to ppl who can hold thier own

If Lifeisaglitch is allowing Slade to be in this thread, then Slade should be able to beat everyone due to his enhancements and precognition. If I may ask, Does anyone know if Batgirl(Cain) and Batman have fought? If so, what happened?

It is ok for slade to be here because batman, shiva, batgirl, cain, and nightwing can still beat him. In hand to hand combat.

It is ok for slade to be here becasue batman, shiva, batgirl, cain, and nightwing can still beat him. In hand to hand combat. Whether he has enhancements or precognition.

sorry for the double post

Batman lost to Slade when they fought in Slade's series (and won when they fought in Batman's title; that's comics for you). I don't think Robin belongs on the list at all.

Holy f*ck, Batman beat a guy who has precognition and moves alot faster and stronger than normal men, due to his enhancements? I heard Batman has already beat Shiva as well. So, somebody tell me, has Batman and Batgirl(Cain) ever fought?

To my knowledge, they have never fought for real. They've sparred, but I don't know how it turned out.

From what I have heard they say that batgirl beat batman when they were fighting hand to hand during the beginning of the sparring. But I also that batman recovered and beat batgirl in hand to hand towards the end of the sparring.

Thanks for the info, Lifeisaglich. If anybody knows about an actual fight, let me know. Also, does anybody know if Batman has ever beaten by a non enhanced, non superpowered human?

Like Joker?

Really guys, don't count enhancements.

And none of the Robins deserve to be on this list, well maybe Dick but he wouldn't be very near the top.

I mean lost to an non enhanced, non superpowered human in a fight. Ofcourse, I haven't read a Batman comic in a long while. Maybe, Joker learn some new moves.

Oh, you wrote "beaten" not "was beaten." There was some confusion.

I meant to type "if Batman has ever been beaten". My fault with the typos. Sorry for any confusion.

Do swords count?

Isn't swords considered to be a form of martial arts. And if it is then it should strongly be concidered.

lifieisaglich, you started this thread. You tell us if you are allowing a sword expert for contender of best martial artist.

Ok there will be no sword play becasue there are not enough people who play with swords in dc. So no swords.

Well it's your thread so by your standard Ras doesn't get to be on this list.

Still about Batgirl, a sparring match shouldn't be considered as evidence that Batgirl is on par with Batman. There are too many factors to take into account. No one can say for sure that both or either was fighting there hardest. As for perfectly reading your opponents movements this isn't as big a deal as the writers made it seem. It's something every serious fighter learns as is how to be unreadable.

Also I might argue that Batman needs to be higher on this list. Deathstroke himself said something to the effect, that if it were not for his enhancements he would have never bested Batman (in his own book.) And Batman beats deathstroke in his own book.

Ok, Lady Shiva is better than Batman. That's fact. Cain kicked Shiva's ass. Therefore she is better than Shiva. Batgirl>Lady Shiva>Batman.

Karate Kid> Batgirl, Shiva, Batman put together.

Batgirl is not better than Lady Shiva, even after that first win because lady shiva can still teach her how to fight with her eyes closed.

And I do not think that batgirl is above batman because batman knows how to control his fights, and can also read is opponents.

And who the heck is Karate Kid?

If I may ask, why would Lady shiva be considered better than Batman if she got beat by him? lifeisaglich, a link about Karate Kid is provided in the first page of this thread by Arachnoidfreak.

Why? Because Lady Shiva kicks Batman's ass 8 out of 10 times, that's why. Batman winning once out of like, the 10 times they have met doesn't make him better than her.

And yea, Batgirl is arguably better than Shiva. They fought once(i think) and she won. Learning new tricks on top of that just makes her that much more skilled than Shiva.

Karate Kid is a member of the Legion of Superheroes. He travels with them from galazy to galaxy. He has mastered martial arts from several galaxies. That alone would make him the greatest on earth, but he also has the innate ability to spot anything/anyone's weak spot almost instantly. He's fought Superboy and held his own.

If your 8 of 10 is how you rank them Lady Shiva 10 and batman 8 then I agree with you. But if it is something else then we are on different pages. By implying that Lady Shiva as beaten batman 8 of 10 times.

Isn't Karate kid from the future?

And Batgirl is not better than Lady Shiva. Just like you said, Just becasue batman beat her once does not mean he is better than her. The same thing applies in this case. Batgirl being better than Lady Shiva is so not true.

Yes, but batgirl and shiva haven't fought more than once. therefore you have to rate them on only that fight. Whereas, Batman and Shiva have fought several times, and Batman beat her only once.

No, I wasn't rating Shiva and Batman. If I were to rate them, Batgirl would be a 10, Shiva would be 9.5 and Batman would be a 9.

Karate Kid would be a 15.

IF that is the case, in Superman/Batman why was batman wondering which one of them is the better martial artist.
If what you said holds any ground prove.

Which one of who?

I didn't read the first storyarc of Superman/Batman. I picked up where Micheal Turner took over. Ed McGuiness isn't exactly my favorite artist. His work on Deadpool was his best.

Lady Shiva I think is the better martial artist, but not the better fighter. I'll take your word on Karate Kid though, so my list goes.

Karate Kid
Batman
Lady Shiva
Batgirl
Nightwing?

lady shiva is better than batman. batgirl is not better than shiva if you remember after batgirl put in that unexpected blow shiva basically said in a nutshell that the girl got chops and offered to train her when she was ready. with regards to my list i put bats below slade cuz slade IS a better fighter. why? beucase he's had arguably the same amount of rigorous training bats has but the fact that he's genetically enhanced that makes the difference.

a few folks were wondering if that should count and i say yeah, cuz DC comics wuz the one who made him an enhanced warrior not me. also, you might have also noticed that i put batman just slightly below him. slade is what batman would be if batman was enhanced as well. the only reason anybody stands a chance of beating slade is becuase just like Cap America he likes to lecture ppl while he kicks ass, and he relies on his weapons just as much as his hands and feet. in fact he only uses h2h is when som'body gets close. this extra distraction is what could realistically give bats the edge. especially if its a good writer.

also i think that the robins, especially nightwing hold a legitmate place on anyone's list. after all they were trained rigorously by bats himself. that gotta count for something

batman did defeat lady shiva in Superman/Batman

Batman defeated lady shiva but Lady Shiva has also defeated Batman.

After wondering what all this Batgirl talk was about I went out and found some comics. Batgirl may have been the best fighter in the world at one time but she forgot all her training do to that guy who rearranges her brain (forgot the name already.) She fights Lady Shiva hoping to get it back but it's not certain how much she actually got back, and the way I read it, it wasn't 100%.

As for Slade, enhancements really shouldn't count man. This is a martial artist thread not a who uses they're powers the best.

So my revised list goes

Karate Kid (on Arachnoidfreak's word, he seems to know what he's talking about)
Lady Shiva
Batman
Nightwing (Jason todd was never ready as Batman says in "Death in the Family' and Tim Drake's too young for me)
Slade even without enhancements (I couldn't decide wether to put slade over Nightwing here or not.)
Batgirl
Lobo

there's people missing but this is the right order in my opinion.

Hahaha! Lobo a martial artist?

That's the funniest thing I've read all week. Don't get me wrong, I love Lobo, but surely you're not seriously suggesting he's a martial artist? He's more a slice 'em, dice 'em, rip their entrails out and eat them and then go for a beer and a smoke kind of guy.

Not all martial arts is form and grace.

He is on the bottom of the list. And I said there are some people missing (although I failed to disclose how many somewhat on porpuse.) Also you should not how many people he's beat that are stronger, faster, and more durable than him on his fighting ability alone.

No, not the a great martial artist, but a great fighter. If that's the case then he doens't go on the list. If it's a measure of fighting ability, martial or otherwise, then yes.

I may have misunderstood the forum, but certainly not Lobo's capabilities.

Have you seen my pic that I posted on the pic thread? Just for you, the Main Man himself:

ok so i withdraw slade from the list, but there is no way slade w/out enhancements is below nightwing, and there is absolutely no way batgirl is below nightwing. if you remember whenever she spars w/batman she holds her own quite nicely, also in Wardrums when she fought that other female who also fought shiva and lived to tell about it, i believe like shiva she was also a member of the league of assassins, she also held her own.

and if you rememer in Batman:Murderer? when he was framed by cain after he escaped from jail, nightwing was trying to prevent him from leaving and he started to raise up on bats but couldnt even land a blow.

Agreed.

Yes, thank you.

If I may ask, how many times have Batman and Shiva fought?

what about deathstroke?

Slade. Deathstroke is too long to type. Please read above.

at my count i think its three
1. when they first met
2 when she trained him to go up against azrael(even tho that wasnt a real fight
3. when she was mind controlled by grodd in Batman/Superman run

I agree with manjaro is talking about I have not found anything that would say that the batman has fought lady shiva 10 times.

Didn't he also have a run in with her during "Death in the Family?"

IDK about that but at the very least it would be 4 not 10 as others have claimed

Well the way I remember it, and forgive me for being lazy it's just that all my books are stored, Batman says he'll have to be careful and then has a brush with her in wich neither clearly win, but Batman does accomplish his goal.

I think the battle between shiva and batman was so unclear because of robin?

Is that question mark suppose to be there? I hate to be grammer police but it confused me a little. It was pretty unclear, the only reason I consider it a victory is because Bat's completed his objective, and Shiva did not.

I put the question mark because I think robin interfered thats all. Or are you talking about a different incounter if so please share.

And does Richard dragon stand up to lady shiva and new batgirl?

Yeah it just confused me is all.

But remember the way that Bat's was talking about it. All like "she's dangerous so i'll have to be careful." which in itself makes Shiva worthy, but is he saying that in manner that would imply he "just" has to be careful, or he'd better be careful?

10 was an exaggeration, I though someone would have picked that up. Do I have to use 800 or some ridiculous number next time?

Yea, Shiva and Batman faced off in "Death in the Family". I have to read it again to refresh my memory, but I think even with Batman being careful she handed him his ass for the better part of the fight.

You're all forgetting Richard Dragon! Sure, Bats and Shiva, Karate Kid, Deathstroke, Azrael... but isnt Richard Dragon supposed to be the best in DC?

In Marvel i'd say Elektra/Iron Fist.

Shiva holds some sort of unofficial title as the world's greatest martial artist. Most people in the universe seem to agree.

Is lady shiva human?????

yes

lady shiva is without doubt the best martial artist in DC but if given enough time the new green arrow, i think would most definatley surpass her. ( he has a metahuman ability to add any new move he sees to his ever growing repetoire)

I read the post linked in the first page by Arachnoidfreak, and i read that Karate Kid defeat Thor, i mean Thor.How can a martial artist put down someone that can withstand with nuclear energy blasts or go head to head with Hulk?

Karate Kid is more than just a martial artist. He can increase his speed and strength. He can damage a tank with a chop. He has stamped on the ground, forcing a street to shake and knocking soldiers off their feet. I don't know anything about the specific fight between him and Thor, but hopefully this info helps you.

K3VIL, got any scans of the comic?

Okie dokie. Time to put a cap on the moron-factor going on in this forum. First and foremost, I must respond to Mr. Sandman, for his fallacious and inflammatory remarks have attracted my ire. Karate Kid is NOT the DCU's best martial artist. For all of you who may not know, Karate Kid is one of the LAMEST characters in DC and is basically this all-powerful retard from the future. However, due to this fact, Karate Kid must be stricken from any talks regarding the best martial artist in the DCU as he is merely a "what-if" kind of character and has 0 fanbase due to his stupidity and poor-writing. Therefore, I will compose my list of the best martial artists in DC (at present), and they are as follows:

1. Lady Shiva

Lady Shiva is, and will always be, the best martial artist in the DCU. She is peerless in her skill, has a deep background and history in DC, and has never been unquestionably defeated. Furthermore, it's important to bear in mind, that Shiva is in no-small-part responsible for the training and skill of many of the other MA's who occupy this list. She pioneered the art of reading an opponent's body language to predict their next actions (a skill often-times attributed to Batgirl, undeservingly so, for she is the 2nd to utilize this technique). Shiva is the only martial artist, that I am aware of, with a patented "One-hit kill" maneuver which she has affectionately coined the "Leopard Blow." Her penchant is for traveling the world and "culling the weak," so to speak, by challenging others who would call themselves masters to a fight to the death. Thus, make no mistake, she is the best - bar none (this statement has even been pondered by Batman himself).

2. Richard Dragon

Richard is a martial artist of the "oldschool" variety, having trained in the beginning with Shiva and Bronze Tiger by O-Sensei (arguably the greatest teacher of martial arts in DC). Richard Dragon has been around in DC for ages and is the master of many forms of martial arts - including his own! He is both directly and indirectly responsible for training many of DC's greatest heroes and is easily worthy of our #2 spot.

3. Deathstroke the Terminator

Slade is, well, a terminator. Hard to question this guy's skill. Beyond the years of training he has received in both martial arts as well as commando-fighting, Slade is the beneficiary of super-speed, strength, intellect, stamina, and reflexes. Due to his insane intelligence (yes, smarter than even Batman), Slade is possibly the best raw tactician DC has to offer - a skill he's used to defeat his foes many a time. Not to mention he's SOLO'ED the Justice League. 'Nuff said.

4. Batman

Need I say more? Read one of his bazillion titles, they speak for themselves, Batman's place as one of the best is irrefutable.

5. Bronze Tiger

A.k.a. Ben Turner. Bronze Tiger was another one of O-Sensei's original students. He has been a longtime friend and comrade to Richard Dragon and is one of the best.

6. Green Arrow (Connor Hawke)

The new Green Arrow is apparently a pretty good martial artist. I wouldn't really know, because I've never been a big fan of GA comics. However, the general consensus is that he's good because he's fought Shiva and not died, lol. Even still, he was defeated soundly.

7. Batgirl IV (Cassandra Cain)

Batgirl, I must begrudgingly put on this list although she will occupy my last and final spot for I absolutely detest this character. This character is the result of a poorly-crafted storyline, in which, the writer(s) conjured up some cheap gimmick of trying to make her the "best martial artist" with a shoddy, poorly-conceived backstory (which, btw, is a direct contradiction to pre-crisis canon and literally has the audacity to attempt and recreate backstories of several pre-existing characters so that they conform to this new upstart wannabe's past). Blah, blah, blah. Long story short, she's defeated Shiva once or twice, but only because Shiva held back in the hopes that her daughter (don't even get me started) could be the one person who could finally defeat and kill her and thus provide her the peace she seems to desire. Unfortunately, Batgirl was too incompetent to achieve even this feat, despite Shiva all but letting her. Anyway, Batgirl is supposedly good because some amateur writer decides to create a newbie and just cleverly write it into her backstory that she's that good. L-A-M-E. Fortunately her very short stint at having her own title was cancelled in 2006 after DC higher-ups realized how stupid it was. Not soon enough for me.


That's pretty much it, I know I'm forgetting some, others you may think I'm forgetting but rather I've chosen to exclude them. But the list I've created is the general consensus on the matter. Bear in mind, I've numbered them respectively.

Batman Karate Kid DeathStroke Nightwing Robin Lady Shiva etc.

I wasn't aware of KK existing Post crisis...

Yeah, apparently some "writers" decided to resurrect this antiquated relic in 94' and 04'. Not surprisingly, this version of the Legion of Super-Heroes didn't sell either. Maybe it was because he ran around in a generic white gi, had a villain named Nemesis Kid, and whose ultimate style he referred to as "Super Karate"......yeah, it really was that stupid. I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried. I honestly think, that if Ralph Macchio reprised his role as the Karate Kid today, he'd have more fans than this loser of a hero. Good riddance.

wonder woman,orion,karate kid ares etc

Karate Kid is the greatest DC Martial Artist, he is a level 12 meta human according to Superman (Which is really HIGH!) and he beat Batman

Actually Batman beat him.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Actually Batman beat him. No he didn't...

And Black Lightning commented that Karate Kid was more like a level 25 afterwards, knowing that Batman was less than level 12.

bump

Originally posted by Existere
No he didn't...

And Black Lightning commented that Karate Kid was more like a level 25 afterwards, knowing that Batman was less than level 12.


Yeah Bats had help. But Batman did stalemate the other Karate Kid which was damn impressive.

Originally posted by goku-vs-superma
lady shiva is without doubt the best martial artist in DC


Sigh. The best don't lose to Cass twice. The best don't stalemate Batman 2 twice they win. The best don't lose to Prom in 3 seconds.

Plus Richard Dragon had the upperhand on her before her henchmen intervened then Dragon decided to lose IIRC.

Shiva stopped being number 1 a long time ago.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Sigh. The best don't lose to Cass twice. The best don't stalemate Batman 2 twice they win. The best don't lose to Prom in 3 seconds.

Plus Richard Dragon had the upperhand on her before her henchmen intervened then Dragon decided to lose IIRC.

Shiva stopped being number 1 a long time ago.

To be fair Shiva losses to Cass were attributed to CIS on panel by Cass herself, and Batman is physically superior across the board with like 80-100 pounds of muscle on Shiva. More than enough to equalize a slight skill disparity.

Chuck Dixon's Richard Dragon series is of "questionable" canonnicity.

We haven't seem him matched up against many of the MA big dogs in DC but the effortless one sided ass kicking that Tommy Jagger laid on Bane should put him in contention for the top spot among skilled DC streets.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
To be fair Shiva losses to Cass were attributed to CIS on panel by Cass herself, and Batman is physically superior across the board with like 80-100 pounds of muscle on Shiva. More than enough to equalize a slight skill disparity.



Stuff like that don't make any difference in comics.

Originally posted by Deadline
Stuff like that don't make any difference in comics.
yes it does. how does that not make a difference?

I wonder how formidable the new KK will be.

The way I am basing this list, is, in a fight to the death(tournament style) who would fare best. Granted, bats,wing,batgirl would never. Lady shiva and batman have never fought to this object. I believe that in this case, bats would clean up. Shiva is an assassin for hire, training only because its her job to kill. Batman trains because his parents were freaking killed in front of him. He trains, to beat up villains. To the death, in just hand to hand, batman would win. He's too unpredictable. You guys seem to fail to realize batman doesn't have substantial powers, not even like dick, who can at least rally his allies. That's why joker is the main batman villain. He's bat mans complete opposite. The only thing they share is the desire for change and unpredictability. Batman is so kingly villains who haven't met him, think he DOES have powers. Lady shiva doesnt have the will to win, because if she dies, nothing would change. Batman would die, and war would hit the streets. Shiva has nothing to fight for. And you guys don't account for experience. I think that early batman would get whooped every time, though not by much. But now? After fighting with four generations of robin, training with shiva, fighting with Richard dragon, I think he would step up. Same with early night wing. When nightwing fought bats it was with frustration, more venting, than actually wanting to hurt him, after all he has the closest bond with batman. But night wing now? After beating slade, hurting blockbuster, the teen titans and young justice situation. I'm not sure exactly how old batman was when he became batman, but dicks been fighting since he was kid, before that, he was a freaking circus performer, which honed his speed and acrobatics like none else. The only reason I bring acrobatics up, is because it ties in with dicks fighting. Dick is on the list because he's so individualistic. He doesn't want to be robin. He wants his own city his own life. I think batgirl II isn't on par because she was fighting her mom. She was probably giving her all shiva was probably holding back. She was a young girl at the time.
1. Karate kid 2. Batman 3. Lady shiva 4. Richard dragon 5. Night wing 6. Batgirl 7. Azrael thats the main ones.
Azrael is iffy for me because he wasnt really trained, he was implanted with knowledge. I'm not saying he's no good, I'm just saying it's hard to judge.