Tolerance

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Silver Stardust
Now this was an interesting discussion we had in my philosophy class the other day, and I wanted to see what other people thought of it.

We were talking about how there are people out there who say that they are tolerant of everything. But once they come across someone who isn't, they get all defensive and say how the other person is wrong for being intolerant -- in other words, they're being intolerant themselves. So my question is, is it possible for someone to be TRULY tolerant?

BackFire
You can't be tolerant of everything. Some opinions are just plain wrong and should NOT have to be tolerated. Such as Skinheads, or other racist ideas.

However, there's a difference between being intolerant because of someones skin color or sexual orientation and not liking certain ideas that are blatantly wrong.

Darth Revan
I agree with BackFire--being intolerent for stupid, petty reasons like race is stupid. But there are some pretty damn stupid people out there who have opinions that don't even deserve my time.

D-Double
Good point.

I used to really not like the term "Tolerance" because I thought it implied separation between the tolerator and the toleratee. It seemed to me that if those who simply tolerated people would take the time and effort to except and understand others point of view, it would raise our collective state of consciousness. As I get older, this seems very idealistic...but still a beautiful thought.

eleveninches
If people have to be tolerant, then they must also be tolerant of your intolerance towards some of their actions.

People can be tolerant, but that does not mean that they can't have opinions about things.

Phoenix
It depends how you describe 'tolerance' or 'intolerance'. Do disregard the thoughts and opinions of anyone you meet who is black/female/disabled simply because they are black/female/disabled is intolerance. But if there is a black female disabled person who you know has stupid opinions, is it still intolerance when you dismiss what she has to say?

I say intolerance is when you dimiss what someone has to say before you even listened to them.

eleveninches
The way i've always looked at it is this:

If a gay person has the right to be gay, then a homophobic person has a right to be homophobic

Turbo-Cajun
"I am non-violent with those who are non-violent with me" - Malcolm X

Very similar to this quote...

"I am tolerant of those who are willing to tolerate others" - Turbo-Cajun

If people have an open mind, act peacefully, and are willing to coexist with those who disagree with them I don't care what you believe, really... (common sense rule applies here)

If you cant accept others who are different from you... your an ignorant piece of shit, its not worth my time talking to you.

Turbo-Cajun
The difference between a gay person and a homophobic is that the gay person does not infringe upon anyone else rights... a homophobe does.

eleveninches
I dont see how having their own opinion infringes upon the rights of others. They cant help it if they feel that way

wicker_man
I can see your point there. We wouldn't be human if we didn't display or at least feel emotions (i.e. feelings) its just each person will display their emotions/feelings differently from the next, for instance a gay couple kiss in public and a homophobic takes offense to this and kicks up a scene who is in the wrong ?

eleveninches
THey dont have to kick up a scene to believe that it is wrong. They might not have a right to do anything about it, but that doesn't mean that they dont have a right to think that it is wrong or to refuse to accept it.

wicker_man
In my personal opinion everyone has a right to their own thoughts and feelings, its just becomes a taboo subject when certain of those thoughts/feelings are brought out in public, thats what most people are brinking on in this topic.

Alpha Centauri
I think what's important is that you are tolerant of the RIGHT things.

No one is asking that a man SHOULD be tolerant if another man is for example, racist to him. Although some people can be tolerant, it's a bit of a stretch to ask for tolerance there.

If someone is just being a bit mouthy or annoying, it's easy in my opinion to be tolerant with them or at least find ways of shutting them up.

-AC

Cipher
Tolerance of opinions is possible. But I don't think certain actions should be tolerated like attacking people who are different in some way than you (race, religion, etc.).

Turbo-Cajun
thumbup

eleveninches
So are you saying that you should be only tolerant of people that you agree with or find aceptable.

What you are saying is that you can tolerate anybody except for those that are intolerable.

You contradict yourself.

Alpha Centauri
I'm saying tolerance applies differently to each person and there are things that I accept, are intolerable to some, yet may not be intolerable to me.

For example, if someone was racist to a white guy, that white guy may go nuts. Rightly so, racism is intolerable. However, if someone was racist to me, I can shrug it off. Coz as intolerable a thing that it is, I deal with it differently. Kinda difficult to explain but by no means a contradiction.

-AC

Turbo-Cajun
11inches -

To use your earlier example or tolerance/intolerance:

Homophobes = hate gays because they exist

Homosexuals = wants to exist with out discrimination


There is a major difference in the validity of these opinions... if you cant see the difference between these two positions, I can try again later.

naybean
Yea but as long as someone isnt openly homophobic and doesnt act upon their feelings, i dont see a problem with a person being homophobic. Its only when someone starts discriminating against other people because of something that they are unable to control that i find them intolerable.

Turbo-Cajun
What about when they teach their kids about gay people? its going to come up sooner or later that their kids will ask them about it... if you teach others to hate, I would consider that acting upon their feelings.

I was taught as a child not to hate those who are different that me... but I also dont have to tolerate discrimination.

Alpha Centauri
"Yea but as long as someone isnt openly homophobic and doesnt act upon their feelings, i dont see a problem with a person being homophobic. Its only when someone starts discriminating against other people because of something that they are unable to control that i find them intolerable."

I know people who don't like homosexuality, yet they don't discriminate or act violent. Having a standpoint and acting wrongly upon it are two different things.

-AC

naybean
TC>I understand what you're saying cos theres a lot of people out there who are homophobic etc cos their parents were. But as long as those parents make sure their kids know its unacceptable to bully and harm people because of the way they are i have a lot less of a problem with them. Most people are prejudiced towards some faction/race/sexuality, just how extreme that prejudice is decides on whether i tolerate it or not.

Turbo-Cajun
I dont like homosexuality either, never tried homosexuality, never will... I dont discriminate against gays, and I dont act violent. I have friends who are gay, and thats not a big deal... that doesnt mean I'm homophobic, that means Im a heterosexual. There is a difference between disagreeing with something and hating someone for it. For example:



1) A fair statement for a gay person to make:

"I like being gay"

2) A fair statement for a heterosexual to make in response to #1:

"I like being straight, gay isn't my thing... doesnt sound like something I'd be into."

3) An unfair statement for a heterosexual to make in response to #1:

" I hate gay people"



There is most definately a difference between having a standpoint on an issue and acting wrongly on it. Option #2 disagrees with homosexuality, but does so respectfully. Option #3 disagrees with homosexuality, but hatefully.

Naybean- fair enough statement there i guess... we do all have some prejudices, but the thing is can we get past those prejudices? If we can we are not intolerant, if you cant get past them I think there is a problem.

Storm
Tolerance refers to an attitude of openness and respect for the differences that exist among people. Although originally used to refer to ethnic and religious differences, the concepts of diversity and tolerance can also be applied to gender, people with physical and intellectual disabilities and other differences too.

Tolerance means respecting and learning from others, valuing differences, bridging cultural gaps, rejecting unfair stereotypes, discovering common ground and creating new bonds. Tolerance, in many ways, is the opposite of prejudice.

Tolerance is about accepting people for who they are - not about accepting bad behavior.

finti
most people dont have fully tolerance, mainly because of the influence of the environment they have grown up in.

naybean
TC> 3) is crossing the mark. No question about it. But the person who thinks "i hate gay people" but does not say it or act on it is the kind of person i will tolerate. I'm not going to agree with them but as long as they dont go around stating that they dont like gay people, I will tolerate their opinions. If everyone could get past their prejudices we'd be living in a close to perfect world.

Alpha Centauri
I don't really have a problem them saying either really. Just as long as they don't try to drone it in or drone on about it. Also as long as they don't get hostile with it.

"I hate gay people." Fine. Your opinion. As long as it's not taken further than it needs to.

-AC

Ytaker
Things like hatred can easily grow. It's best to not allow them to be there, as they can really screw with your head if they contradict reality.

Alpha Centauri
We can't not allow hate in others, if they have it they'll have it. I get your point though.

-AC

eleveninches
NO.

Homophopes = dislike gays
Homosexuals = dislike homophobes.

It works both ways

BlackC@t
This subject of tolerance is turning into a subject of homophobes...

I really dis-like it when some people have a 0 tolerance level. They really need to grow up.

finti
so you have no tolerance for those?

Storm
Disliking something/someone doesn' t necessarily imply that you don' t tolerate it/him/her.

finti
but your tolerance for those are much lower though and in the end it ends up in no tolerance

The Omega

Storm
I disagree.

§nakehead
Im fairly tolerent of people of differnt races but I hardly tolerate sexual pervets such as :Furries, pedofiels and ect.

Alpha Centauri
You're fairly tolerant of people of different races?

-AC

§nakehead
yep, Ive dated a women of all the races

Alpha Centauri
So what does the "fairly" in that sentance mean? There are some races you can't tolerate?

-AC

§nakehead
No, But im inbetween bigiot and Jesse Jackson

Alpha Centauri
"No, But im inbetween bigiot and Jesse Jackson"

Yes....which was my point.

Some people really shouldn't be allowed out of their houses.

-AC

finti
laughing out loud

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