Walfare a good thing or a bad thing?

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Jackie Malfoy
Sure being on walfare helps alot of poor people but it is also our tax money and we have the right to know where our money goes too.
Some of our money goes to people who will not get a job and depends on our money to support them.I mean this is america!No one is dieing in the streets here or serving!
So what do you think is a good view on this and a bad review on Walfare?JM confused mad

furryman
Welfare?

pr1983
depends on whos getting it, some people rely on it to survive because they are simply unable to work, but others just exploit the government, which is stupid.

Silver Stardust
Wow, we can really tell your age from this post.

Number one, it's welfare. There's a spell checker, PLEASE use it.

Number two, apparently you know nothing about welfare or the state of the poor in the US. Yes, there are people dying in the streets and/or starving here. And the majority of people on welfare try very very hard to find a good job and get off it, but it is very hard to do.

PVS
welfare can be good and bad.

its good in the fact that it helps families get back on their feet after job loss, assuming they intend to do just that...get back on their feet. my mother was on welfare when i was a small child due to a brutal divorce and financial problems a plenty. she found well paying full-time work, was able to make ends meet, and thus was able to go off of welfare. thats how welfare is SUPPOSED to work.

now, you also have the bad side, where people collect and have no intention of finding a job.

perhaps our welfare system needs reformation, but it must not be eliminated...that would be a disaster and many families would needlessly suffer.

Tptmanno1
YEa, I thought it said warfare.....
so I voted no..
But yes welfare is a good system and people either misenterpret it or are jsut too attached to their money.

PVS
the want to eliminate welfare is just an example of greed in america.
sure, i dont want my tax dollars to be spent on those who are lazy and decide to spend their lives hitching a free ride, at our expense. but i would like to know that those dollars go to families who NEED it.

Jackie Malfoy
Ok how old am I?This has nothering to do with my age!No one is serving name some people that actly dead in the states?No one.
Yes it may be hard for people to get jobs and that is fine if the money goes to them but others don't need it at all like you said.
Thanks for the spelling check through I will remember that.JM roll eyes (sarcastic)

Silver Stardust
You're coming off as very ignorant, JM. Look up some facts before you start asking questions. No, I can't name anyone because I don't personally know anyone. But I hear about it a lot. But it DOES happen, whether you want to believe it or not.

WindDancer
Welfare is a good thing in developing countries. But unfortunally there is abuse of the welfare system. I remenber in one my social science clases in high school our teacher show us a video of a guy using food stamps to buy alcohol in a liquor store. I couldn't believe that people would stoop to those levels! Even worse the liquor store owners allow this to happen! I just think that the welfare system should be moderated and not abuse.

PVS
"No one is serving name some people that actly dead in the states?No one."

please make this question legible

Jackie Malfoy
I am not ignorant and my name is Jackie or Jacks!Anyway are you sure you are not thinking of other countrys?How can people die in the streets for no food in a place like america?
It can not happen.Are you sure you are not confuse about something else?jm roll eyes (sarcastic) Happy Dance

PVS
wow...you are painfully ignorant if you think there are no starving families in america.

Silver Stardust
It can happen, it has happened, and it does happen. Look up some statistics. Sorry to bust your bubble, but the US is not some perfect utopia.

Jackie Malfoy
If you think of other countrys where people are serving and then think of america then you say we are not as worst as that country.
Which is my point.Are we worst in other countrys no!Because we don't have people actly dieing in any state.Which state are you talking about anyway?
Name the state if you don't remember then yu have no proof.The usa may not be perfect in anyway but that does not mean people are actlly dieing in the streets here.Does it/NO!jm roll eyes (sarcastic) Happy Dance

PVS
now you are avoiding your own ignorance.

OF COARSE other countries have it worse, but how does that come up?
how does that justify us throwing away our welfare system? your logic it warped.

and just because you dont see people dying in your pretty little neighborhood doesnt mean its not happening. will you please get a clue?

Jackie Malfoy
All I need a prove you must had heard about this somewhere but yet would not give me any prove or what state you are talking about,There is poor neighoods like the projects and all but those people have a house and are not in fact serving!
Your threads is missing one thing and that is prove!You get a clue!Anyway I live in a neighood that is not full of rich people infact it is lower middle class!
Not that is any of your bee waxs!See you around!JM

PVS
yeah, im sure.

Silver Stardust
It's STARVING. Not serving. GET IT RIGHT.

shellie
JM there are tons of homeless people who DIE in the streets every night...dont say it doesnt happen...it does . they are homeless and starving . i live in North Carolina...last time i checked we were part of the USA....it happens here all the time .

Jackie Malfoy
Yea I am sure too!Anyway back to the topic!Another question you guys might want to think about is in what way has welfare helped this country?JM (This is for the people beside the two jerks here to answear btw)JM

Silver Stardust
Okay, so I'm a jerk because I'm pointing out how you're wrong. Excuse me.

shellie
they are not jerks...they are discussing this issue...isnt that what you wanted ?

PVS
and im a jerk because i come from a welfare family and am living proof of its benefits. but what say do i have, right?

Shadow_King
i have no comment.

PVS
she only wants ignorant people to post in absolute agreement so she can wallow in her own ignorance. everyone else is just a jerk.

shellie
im 30 years old and i came from a family who was on welfare as well...too often we had to rely on it . its there for families like opurs to get help as needed....i dont know about other states but here we have the work first program..

its a system that insures the welfare recipients are indeed finding and getting work .

still i know its not a perfect system but its better then nothing . i personally dont mind that my tax $ is going to fed someones family . atleast i know someones child was able to go to sleep at night with a full belly cuz of our wefare system .

Tptmanno1
Yea, Its better than nothing.

JM, Just because you don't see something, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
I live in LA, this it the WORST place for that kinda stuff, People join gangs and commit violent acts because if they didn't they would be starving on the streests.

Turbo-Cajun
Maybe someone should point out to Jackie that living off of welfare sucks... its not some easy free-loading care free kind of living where the gov't pays for everything, your still ****ing poor.

I myself have never been on welfare, but many of my friends have been on food stamps and lived in housing projects. I've seen people around who arent getting enough to eat.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jackie when you start calling people jerks you make it so easy for the rest of us to point out how immature and ignorant you are... I know you hate that, but quit acting like such a kid! Don't name call, learn to spell, and don't assume that you are always correct... have a healthy amount of skepticism in your life. Since you have trouble spelling "welfare" it is probably necessary to provide you with definitions to words 3 syllables and over.Definition of Skepticism

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And if there are people taking advantage of the system, they should be more tightly regulated... but over all it is still an important program which is necessary for many poor people in America. No one else is really trying to help these people out... you Jackie don't want to even acknowledge that they exist. If the welfare system helps get people above the poverty line and on their feet, it is a good thing. And if your concern is about taxes... in America you don't pay shit in taxes when it comes to helping out the poor and the unemployed, if you get a chance ask Finti or someone else from Europe about this. America is tight fisted as hell when it comes to helping out the poor... if anything is wrong with welfare it is that it doesn't do enough to help those less fortunate to get ahead in life.

Mr Zero
know whats more important than walfare? Edjukayshun! becus if you get a good edjukayshun you mite not end up on walfare.

just my too cents

pr1983
education costs money zero, not everyone can afford it

BadKitty
shore enupgh! stick out tongue

PVS
its not as simple as education.
sometimes shit happens and you are left with kids,
broke, and without a job, regardless of what field you are in.
education does not automatically lead to success.

BadKitty
for the reasons you stated welfare is important..but as messed up as this country is once your on it...they offer a ton of ways for people to help them selves get off of it.

the only time I ever have a issue with welfare is when people abuse it and make it harder for people who really deserve to be on it. they have placed restrictions on it thats helps abuse,so honestly I have no problem with welfare as it is.

Mr Zero
Despite the fact that my post was in fact more of a disguised comment on how I find it difficult to respect the opinion of people who cant string together a coherent sentence - I have to say "education costs money" ... I'm bafled.

Since when?

shellie
being educated is no garentee that you will be poverty striken and need help .

PVS
im up to my neck in student debt. since when is it an odd notion for education to cost money?

Mr Zero
and before anyone else comments about my post - (tho I do believe that an education is a fine thing) My post was not entirely serious in this context.

Lets make it plainer by digging up my recent favourite idea.

Democracy - we live in something that resembles one and if you dont like the way your tax is being used, vote for someone who agrees with you.

But be warned - in my perfect world if you can't spell the word democracy then you dont get a ****ing vote.

pr1983
apologies for misunderstanding zero.

as for your question, since always, nowadays a high school diploma aint worth as much as it used to, and college does cost a lot of money.

PVS
a high school diploma is not worth the paper its printed on.

Mr Zero
You mean higher education ? Like degree level qualification - ? Much as I think its wrong that you should have to end up in debt to be educated, again thats not what i meant...

I'm from what you in the USA would call a welfare family, I left the education system at age 15 - and I can still express myself better than - say for instance - Jackie M : My point WAS that you cant expect anyone to take you seriously if your going to type like a drunken seven year old with hooks for hands....

Apologies if i offended anyone with hooks for hands.

BadKitty
I think she says she's 14..I don't think she'll grasp this untill she has to pay her own taxes and actually knows someone unforunate enough to have to be on welfare.

Mr Zero
Not necessary - I was being my usual sarcastic & obtuse self. I just assumed folks would know I wasnt using my "own" voice as my post had spelling errors in it. Doh!

pr1983
zero i guess im just not here long enough, suppose ill get used to it eventually

Mr Zero
She's 14? Ah crap... that explains the tone of



This isn't a discussion - shes milking us for some friggin essay project she has to write for school.

BadKitty
yes well the way this thread is going she'll get a big fat 'F'

~sorry JM thats the breaks

Fiery Eyes
For one thing, this IS NOT AN ENGLISH CLASS, so you peeps recommending spellcheck, and questioning ones spelling and grammar is wrong, YOU know what HE was saying, can't you just answer the question w/o the belittling?

anyways, I think welfare is good for those that Can't work, but there is alot out there that CAN and are just to lazy to work. I also think they Give wayyyy to much money for food stamps, thats ridiculous, I don't spend that much money a month in grocerys, they eat better than I do. I do know that it's good for those that don't abuse it.

Arachnoidfreak
Fiery, what is it with you and capitalizing random words? That's just annoying. You're right. It isn't English class. But someone should be able to spell correctly enough for others to understand. A few typos here and there don't matter, but HER spelling is shit, and you know it. I question your spelling too.

Mr. Zero: I have laughed at every single one of your posts that I've come across. I was very surprised to see that you left the education system at 15. Congratulations for not turning out like an illiterate douche! Which is more than I can say for most that are still in school.

Mr Zero
"No one is serving name some people that actly dead in the states?"

CAN you TELL me what the HELL THIS means because I HAVE seriously no IDEA...

Shadow_King
nope cant decipher that.

PVS
it means something like 'all your base are belong to us' laughing out loud

Arachnoidfreak
I'll take a crack at it. I'm fluent in "****ing Idiot" as well as English.

"No one is serving" should probably be "No one is starving" and "name some people that actly dead in the states" should be "Name some people that actually died in the United States"

Really, that ****ed up sentence should read, "No one is starving. Name some people that have actually died in the United States." Of course it doesn't because Jackie is 14 and illiterate.

Unless I'm completely off base here. Which I could be.

BadKitty
well I know I will catch hell for this but but your wrong...I had a hard time trying to figure out what she was asking.

I don't think it's belittling that people are recommending she ask her questions properly especially in the GDF.

PVS
damn...you're good...you're REALLY good!!! eek!
did you take a class in jibberish? laughing out loud

anyway, thanks for clearing that up.

Nazgulinthedark
I think you misunderstand some people who dont have jobs. My extended family is very very poor. My grandmom on my mom's side live in a trailer, and couldn't pay for my grandpa's funeral, my mom and the veteran's of the US commitee...whatever they're called, had to pay for it. My grandma doesn't have a job because she's too old, and part of Louisiana's tax money is paying for her social security.
My cousin had a 3.98 GPA in highschool, but she doesn't have enough money to afford the cheapest college in Louisiana. She works 9 hours a day, and she still has to rely on goverment taxes so she can finish college and make something of herself.
Don't tell me that poor people are too lazy to find jobs, because both of my parents worked their ways through college with out a cent of state tax money, and no money from their parents, because their parents were to poor to afford any of it.

Nazgulinthedark
People actually do die here! Take Alabama for instance, families have childran that die for malnutrition all the time there! In New Orleans, there are just inder 400 deaths a year, and not all of those are murders. There are lots of poor, half starved people in New Orleans and Alabama, and that example is just one state, and a single city! There are 50 states in the this country, and thousands more cities!

Jedi Priestess
Yet another thread that supports my belief that people should have to be here a certain time before they can open a thread.

Jackie, the reason you caught so much grief is because you posted and responded in a way that makes you appear to be around the age of 13-14. Just because someone disagrees with you doesnt make them a jerk. If you want to open a thread like this in the future, then at least have some ammunition to back up your claims.

Jedi Priestess
Thats a she, and you havent had the pleasure of reading the majority of her threads. Which pretty much all lean towards the....well I wont say but it's not nice. And she did her fair share of name calling.

ragesRemorse
the concept of welfare is defenantly a good thing. The use of welfare in America though, is defenantly a bad thing. I mean when you are working two jobs just to keep your electricity on and pay school tuition, and you have to watch al these friggin babies momma's flaunt $50 hair style's, jewlery i could only dream to dream of owning, use food stamps at grocery stores which get them better groceries than ones you can afford, and then hear them ***** and moan about how shitty this country treats them, well That kind of shit is enough to seriously drive you to hurting people. (sorry for the run on)

I think the total abuse of welfare has proven that it is more of a bad thing than a postive thing. Many people on welfare dont have to have jobs to be on welfare. Maybe if you had to make a certain income rather than making less than a certain income to get on the program. It would actually inspire peopl to get off their asses and do somthing with their lives rather than spitting out a couple kids every year. The program defenantly needs to be more closely regualted and have enforced guidlines. you should have to have a job while being on welfare. I hate seeing these people, whose food and clothes i pay for ***** about how bad they have it.


I know there are people who seriously need welfare, and use it to their advantage so they can get back on their feet. I am not referring to any of these people. Only the hogs who take advantage of it.

Nazgulinthedark
see, now you, ragesremorse, can tell me the same thing, about the same people, that jackie malfoy was trying to say. (or i think she was trying to say, i cant actually read her posts that well) But you can tell me it in a nice, respectful manner, and spell words right, and use correct grammar, and give acknowledge to people who use the welfare system correctly.
see, now jackie malfoy, you would me much more greatly respected on this forum if you could do the same thing rages did. Present your argument in a nice way, give credit to those who deserve it, and spell and use grammar correctly. smile

Darth Revan
You aren't very bright, are you? Have you never seen a hobo? no expression

finti
There will always be someone who try to abuse the system cant get around it. We have the same problems here in Norway and we are one of the richest country on this globe, yet we have our share of pople on welfare. It is not that they cant work, there is no jobs for them. And the Norwegian authorities being the only one in Europe that dont protect its own industry thats what you get.

Darth Surgent
14..........

shellie
Jackie....a lil "proof" that people are starving in America....


http://www.secondharvest.org/site_content.asp?s=62

http://www.secondharvest.org/site_content.asp?s=63


get informed

Syren

Syren
Bless her, she's young guys. Shouldn't we be trying to educate rather than simply crush her opinion? confused Just a suggestion. Again ninja

Jackie Malfoy
Don't worry no one is crushing my spirt!and never will!Again age does not mean not that you are not smart!Sure I have learning promblems but that does not mean I am dumb does it?NO it does not!
Yes I seen a hibo but what does that have to do with people dieing in the streets?Trying to change the subject is not going to answear your question for you!
Yes I am fourteen!JM

Nazgulinthedark
....do you need glasses? because I dont think you can see the keyboard very well.


sorry stick out tongue

but yes, hobos have alot to do with people dieing on the streets! they ARE the ones dieing on the street!

PVS
hobo: politically incorrect term for a homeless person

homeless person: a person with no home and no income, other than what the charity of some will offer.

homeless people die in the streets constantly. they die of hunger, they die from freezing to death, they die of sickness that SHOULD be easily cured.

it has EVERYTHING to do with people dying in the streets in that THEY ARE people dying in the streets.
unless you dont consider them to be real people?

your ignorance seems boundless

Darth Revan
Thank you...

MC Mike
32 million Americans (11.8%) live at or below the federal poverty level - an annual income of $14,630 for a family of three (U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, October 2000).

Syren
Goddamn guys!!! Open your mind to her, she's the one who's created most of the threads we are dicussing at the moment! I'm ashamed of most of you.

Jackie Malfoy
(And your own ignorance is wasted on yourself!)Also it makes me laugh!

Again I say one more time and this is the last time.Geting back to the welfare talk is that if it wasted on the people who don't need it why not have it wasted on people who does need it?
Anyone care to answear this question?JM roll eyes (sarcastic) laughing

PVS
yeah, poverty and death are not only irrelivent, but funny as well huh? no expression

its PRECISELY on target, but not on YOUR target.

YOUR target seems to be that there is no poverty in america, and that nobody really needs welfare. anyone who debates that is off topic. any related points are off topic.

its on topic because poverty in america is REAL and without our welfare system, MORE families would die of starvation, disease, from the elements, etc.

exponentially more.

Nazgulinthedark
"who does need it?" ...confused...maybe it is supposed to be, "who do need it?"

and you question doesnt make sense..."if it wasted on the people who don't need it why not have it wasted on people who does need it?"

correct me if im wrong, but ithink one is supposed to decipher it like this... "if is wasted on the people who don't need it, why have wasted on people who do need it?"

um...if you spend money for welfare on people who do need it, you arn't wasting it roll eyes (sarcastic)

Syren
It's pointless of me to continue asking you isn't it? I think it's cool the way you argue against her points as most of them are ridiculously naive, but to correct her spelling for her and tell her she is ignorant CONSTANTLY is taking it to a lower level. Surely all you 'intelligent', 'informed' and 'mature' members are capable of correcting her innocent misconceptions without demeaning her unnecessarily? It's quite saddening erm

shellie
im not trying to "squash" her ....what ive posted ive done so hopefull to inform her that she is wrong about people not dieing of starvation here in America....i know she is thinking of certain countries like the ones shown in the Save the Children Christain fund commericials....

the fact remains ...we do have starving people in the USA who have died from malnutrition....its why i posted those 2 links...as a way of informing....

Welfare is a very good thing....dispite the small handful here and there who take advantage of it....if we didnt have it all....more children would be dieing of starving or they would be in foster care cuz their parents couldnt feed them .

i see no reason why its a bad thing .

Syren
I never said your name shellie, but there have been a fair few who have tried to simply make her feel small, I just think it's really sad. I don't pity her, far from it, I actually appreciate her determination, I know that had I had the reaction she's received upon my initiation here I don't think I would have returned erm It seems to charge her up laughing out loud

shellie
yes ive noticed the same thing....spunky is the word that comes to mind when i think of JM laughing out loud

Mr Zero
Syren does have a valid point here with regards attitude (and I hope she will at least back me up when I say) i also have thought that the question may be phrased badly and the politics behind the attitude may disagree with mine but props to JM for bringing the issue up and arguing her corner. The grammar sucks, but the grammar is here rather than fawning over orlando in LOTR. Time to cut the slack and get back to the issue at hand...


If you could choose where your Tax dollar went - i'd be putting a huge mofo tick in the welfare and student grants box and leaving the military to be paid for by the arms manufacturers and the monarchy to be paid for by... NOBODY!

Mr Zero
Thats the word that comes to mind when i think about her friend.

PVS
determinations is a good think when it comes to what you BELIEVE in.

to say there is no poverty in america makes about as much sense as saying there is no poverty at all.

there is belief and there is fact.

im sorry, but i cant respect determined ignorance.
a diehard approach to avoiding fact by putting your head in the sand.
it should not be encouraged at all.

belief is belief, and fact is fact.

saying that nobody has died in america from poverty is like saying nobody has died in america from a terrorist attack. i find it nerveracking.

Syren
toot Finally!! Cheers buuuuddy wink

And I agree, the monarchy need no wage, nada.

Syren
You're hanging onto one thing she said, which she probably worded wrong if her other posts are anything to go by. Let it go hun, you'll feel better stick out tongue

PVS
ok, then i will give her the opportunity to reword that and correct herself..


*ahem*

Syren
laughing

That's it.....be flexible.... good job wink

Tkdgurl
Welfare is good and bad.

If you're a single parent already working a job but still can't afford to pay the rent at your home, welfare is a good thing.

But if you're very much capible of going out and finding a GOOD job but are ust too lazy then i believe that welfare is a bad thng.

Anything can be either good or bad.

Syren
Amen to that wink

finti
sometimes there aint no job to find

Jackie Malfoy
Coughs to herself cough it is better if you just stop correcting mecough!Anyway yes that is true and that is when the welfare comes but what I am saying is why waste the money on people who don't need it?
Why are these people even allowed to do this?There should be some kind of protion going on so people who need the money can get it and the people who don't can't get it.
Am I right?Or does this already exist?Any comments?JM

Syren
*whacks you on the back*

Nasty cough you got there m'dear. So, you want people to quit correcting you? Therefore I assume you'd also like me to stop defending you every time someone puts you down, right?

phinney6
I think it depends. I believe it is a good thing bu more investigation needs to be made on WHO we give it too. Here in Maine, there was a certain group of minorites, who moved here, Did NOT EVEN TRY TO WORK, and all got on the welfare system, they moved here because of better welfare, now that town's economy is getting pretty bad, he asked them not to bring all their relatives because the town just couldn't afford it. He was branded by some as a racist. SO yes I think its gotten to the point in American were we will give it to anybody, and a ALOT of them do not need it. They are just unwilling to TRY to succeed, I think welfare should be a last resort

Jackie Malfoy
It is ok Syren I got rid of that cough!Anyway no I am happy you are saying those nice things about me!Thanks.I am sorry if you thought I was talking to you.
I was not I was talking to PVS and not to anyone personally!Sorry about the misunderstanding!JM

Afro Cheese
Welfare was meant to help but it is often abused. I know kids who's parents are drug dealers but still collect a welfare check. My friends aunt actually avoids getting a job because if you don't have a job you get a bigger welfare check. Welfare is outdated and they need to come up with something new. They need to improve inner city schools and give poor kids more of a fair chance at succeeding, and help adults get their GED if they don't have it and get a steady job. Just simply giving people a check isn't motivating anybody, it's helping some and giving others something to exploit. But, until they come up with something better, welfare is at least some positive reinforcement for poor families.

PVS
QUOTE: "No one is dieing in the streets here or serving!"

utter nonsense, proven wrong, yet you choos to ignore those facts. that is what it means to be ignorant. people try to set you straight by informing you that there is are always homeless people dying...(hobos as some refered to them as) you refuse to believe the BLATENT truth.

QUOTE:"Anyway are you sure you are not thinking of other countrys?How can people die in the streets for no food in a place like america?
It can not happen.Are you sure you are not confuse about something else?"

homeless people die in the streets all the time. you need to understand that you are flat out wrong, bottom line. we dont even have to get into families, you say there are NO deaths in the street, no extreem poverty...its nonesense.

QUOTE: "Yes I seen a hibo but what does that have to do with people dieing in the streets?Trying to change the subject is not going to answear your question for you!"

so you mean people dying in poverty has NOTHING TO DO with people dying in poverty. either that or homeless people are not real humans or they dont deserve to live....shit you lost me here...and yet you are proudly defiant against the objective truth:

PEOPLE DIE IN THE STREETS IN AMERICA

why cant you see that you are wrong here?
why is it that you will ignore the entirety of this post?

and being young is no exuse. spelling and grammar aside (which i dont think matter, so long as its understandable) you are stomping over a major american issue with boots shitted up with ignorance and fabricated fake-facts.
THINK of the issue, survey the facts, ACCEPT the facts, swallow your pride, accept that you were wrong in preaching false figures, and THEN and ONLY THEN will you be ready to have an educated opinion...and you will earn the respect of your peers, regardless of that opinion.

and no, i dont want to see you crushed, i want to see you THINK.

Silver Stardust
Oh honey, I think you misread my post. What I meant was that it's very hard these days to find a good job. I think welfare's a good thing, too. My family was on it for a while back when my parents divorced while my mom was looking for a job.

Jackie Malfoy
I have no idea why you are bring this up again PVS.When I can bet you have other things to do.(hint hint!)I had made a thread in the off topic section that I bet you would like to read.
It may interest you.Go read it and let me know!JM Again I exclaimed about my learning promblem to everyone.Everyone is ok with it so why are you not ok wiht it?JM
Anyway go to the off topic section!JM

PVS
learning problems have nothing to do with it JM.

the ability to get straight a's in school have nothing to do with the
ability to see a fact, and accept a fact, and not make up false facts.

im not trying to attack you as a person, but i cant help but speak up
when i see someone attack the truth. its beyond the issue of welfare
in that you wont accept that extreme poverty even exists in america.

can you AT LEAST give me that???

Jackie Malfoy
Actly it does because of my bad spelling and such anyway we been through this and it is done,So please do me and everyone a favor and drop it.
and please go to the off topic thread.If you don't then fine.But it wil not be the same without you!JM Look for a thread called "Who is wiling to make a bet with me!"
Name again is Jackie.If you keep calling me JM I wil not respond to you anymore!JM

PVS
ummm...the topic is welfare

welfare centers around poverty in america

its on topic and DEAD ON TARGET

so...you want me to drop the topic and stay on topic...well i MUST be stupid then since i have no idea how to do that....a little help?

Jackie Malfoy
And so it is my good friend!Anyway got to go check real quick on something brb!JM

Afro Cheese
Hell yeah extreme poverty exists in America. The worst poverty I ever saw was in Miami. I was on an elevated train and there were homeless people everywhere on the streets below. There was an old abandoned store and it was completely surrounded by homeless haitian families. Seriously, people sleeping on the sidewalks and homeless mothers pushing homeless babies in baby carriages. Thinking it just doesn't exist because America is a rich nation is crazy. If you go to any big city you wont have to look very far to find starving people. And in extreme rural environments, poor white families live in old wooden houses in the mountains without alot of the things your used to and sometimes even without electricity. Hell, right here in my city we have a street a couple blocks from my house called Lake Ave, and if you go down that street on any weekday morning, you'll see hundreds of Guatemalan men standing around and drinking, waiting for any random truck to stop with work. Usually landscaping, painting, anything like that. It's sort of an illegal labor pool. All that just to feed their families and live in some tiny shit hole apartment. Just because America has a lot of money doesn't mean everybody in America has money.

Jackie Malfoy
I did not say that everyone had money I had said that there are alot worst courtrys then us.That are actly serving!That is what I said!Anyway your name remains me of cheese!
(runs to get some)anyway I better get to bed!See you around!JM

Darth Revan
True that there are worse countries than us, but how does this justify not having welfare? Our responsibility should be to our own people first and foremost. Not to mention the fact that the US has been contributing to the incredible poverty in other parts of the world. Two excellent examples of the US sponsoring such corrupt governments would be Nicaragua and the Congo... They were at first anyways.

Jackie Malfoy
I have to give you points for that one.But anyway what about people who gets it and dont need it?What can be done about those people?Any suggustions?JM Goodnight!

Afro Cheese
Nothing really. You try to do anything good or nice and people will find a way to exploit it. People robbed the salvation army for god's sake. But you can't take away welfare just because some people abuse it.

EOWYN3
I'm just tired of people who exploit the program. It's necessary for those who need it, but there are lazy people who don't want to work or those who don't want to work the jobs that are available. It's a tough call; how can you take it away now when so many people depend ot it?

Darth Revan
AC> Exactly.

shellie
one thing that isnt being realized here is that those who abuse the welfare system do get punished when they are caught . they have to pay back the money given to them and if its a great amount they serve time in jail , probation , ect....

the thing about it though....EVERYONE has a right to apply for assistance....you can drive a brand new sports car and you have the right to the same assistance that someone with no car has the right to . just cuz you look like you are well off doesnt mean you dont need help occassionally .

they arent able to discriminate agains you cuz you seem well off....how do you know who needs it and who doesnt...they have a system that helps them...you have to have papers to prove you need it . you wages stubs...utility bills...rent bills...i know this cuz ive been on welfare . i know how they operate .

there are more paople on the welfare system that need it then not....there are some who abuse it..i know that but if they have the right papers and #'s that show they need assistance....then they get it too .

i seen someone post before...you cant take away a good thing just cuz of few abusing it . id rather them continue the welfare program as i said before cuz i know some kids and their families wouldnt be able to eat otherwise .

PVS
just the nature of the poll says it all:

"No it is not good to pay our tax money on these people!"

now. 'these people' does not refer to those who abuse the system.
it refers to impoverished families who need assistance. a perfect example
of selfishness in america. its shameful to think i live in the same country as a few who would rather have families and children starve and die rather than give up some income to help them. charity is the most basic of human morals. all religions support the idea of helping those less fortunate. its a fundamental part of being a good person.

finti
in Norway they will say sell the car first.

Jackie Malfoy
I am talking about taking it all away I am saying beside what you said there should be a better punishment for thoses people who don't need welfare and still get it,
I mean these are the people that we are wasting our tax money on and still no reasonale punishment is given to them.
Maybe when they sign up on it or something they could have a back ground check or something like that done on them.Also anyone every read "Les MIsable"
In that book the main man gave those people jobs instead of money.Saying that they need jobs not money!Interesting thought I think.
See you aorund!JM wink

shellie
ok dear one...please tell me....

ive tried my best explaing it . im all out of explanations....you tell me...

how do they know who is cheating the system...who should be punished and how do they know who it is ? do you think they already know and is just giving "our" tax money to them ?

and what should this "better" punishment be ?

please be specific if you can sweetie cuz id like to know more about how you think they should deal with these people .

Jackie Malfoy
Well I guess you don't really know who is cheated it.Which is why I suggusted the back ground check before giving these people welfare.If there background check is ok then they can give it to them.
If not it can be deny or checked again. Sorry if this sounds confusing!Do you argee on what I am trying to say?JM Cool siggy picture!

PVS
what does a background check have to do with it?
how will that solve anything? if someone has cheated the system
it will be on their record regardless. so what would they be checking for?

finti
in Norway there are heavy background checks and they monitor the bank accounts so..............there aint all that easy to abuse the system.
But thats here in Norway

shellie
i understand what you are trying to say but you have to understand something here....


whats a background check gonna show...if they've abused and cheated the system in the past then yes...they shouldnt get assistance for that..

but are you saying if they have a criminal records for other things that they shouldnt be helped ? if so , i dont agree...people have made mistakes and done things to give themselves bad records . we cant hold that against them . they still pay taxes and have a right to be helped out too .

Jackie Malfoy
Yes not jail checks even through if they has been in jail for abusing the welfare before no they should not be geting any.Yes I also mean if they had been abusing it before and need it again because they had losed there jobs alot of time and for no good reason.
Those kind of people should not be granted welfare.I could be wrong but is it welfare used until these people find a job and don't need it anymore?
Is it why we even have it?JM

shellie
IF im understanding you right....

we have welfare to help people out when they dont have jobs OR there current job isnt paying enough.

while there are jobs out there sometimes people cant work for other reasons...such as health , disabilities ect...

yes its designed to help people get back on there feet and then they are off but some have a harder time getting back on there feet . its not that easy . especially when you have kids .

Jackie Malfoy
That is basicly what I am saying.Welfare is to help you get back on your feet again.And once you have a job then you don't need welfare anymore.
I think what we really need is for the goverment to find jobs for these people and get rid of the welfare alltogether.I mean what is better having a job or geting money?
I say we are helping them alot better if the goverment would step in and get jobs for these people.That way we don't need the welfare thing anymore.
Get what I am saying?JM

PVS
if the government could step in and get descent jobs for people,
we would not even need unemployment insurance. its a fantasy...sorry

Jackie Malfoy
It is a fantasy that could happen if there was more Republicans in charge of this.I bet they would do this.And it would be great if it could happen.
No more welfare.I wonder why no one thought of this before?I mean the goverment?JM

Turbo-Cajun
Republican don't create more jobs for working people, they create more wealth for those who dont really need it. Tax breaks for those who dont need it... etc. If they were serious about improving poor people's lives they would have a more progressive system of taxation and a higher minimum wage, something more resembling an actual living wage.

So far Republicans have denied many of the attempts to raise the minimum wage... they dont care about poor people. They care about winning elections. Poor people dont vote for them, poor people dont pay their campaign contributions. The republican's record when it comes to helping the poor sucks... before you go praising them too much you should check out what they have actually done for the poor... right now more people are unemployed than ever and college expenses keep rising while poor people are becoming more and more unlikely to acheive that because of the current administration's decision to not raise the amount of federal Pell grant awards.

PVS
IF???? IF REPUBLICANS WERE IN CHARGE!?!?!??

may i remind you that when bush was elected, republicans held the majority in the house, congress, and held the presidency....where are all these jobs???

and what about aids in africa? why dont we send republicans over there, that will solve everything.

polar icecaps melting? no problem!!! send in the republicans!!!

shit, i have an ingrown toenail and its KILLING me!!!! i wish i had my own republican to fix it for me... roll eyes (sarcastic)

phinney6
I disagree, the rate of unemployment would of been the same with ANY party involved because no one had a different plan, 9/11 destroyed our economy, but since hating bush is the "fad" then that who they blame. And the tax breaks actually DO help the middle class, but it also helps the wealthy, which is in my opinion only fair, the percentages are close to the same which is FAIR. the rich should not be penalized for being successful. And if they raised the federal pell, the taxes would also go up, which in your first paragraph you said was unfair. Rich and Middle class percentages for taxes are the same which is fair, unemployment WAS not the repulbicans faults, in fact the republicans DID LOWER TAXES for EVERYONE which is something the democrats are not wanting to do. We do not want to give away MORE FREE money by just raising taxes, we should find a way to NOT GIVE HANDOUTS but to HELP THEM GET BACK ON THIER FEET to the poor which is something that a lot of people want to do. And dont make the democrats out to be little angles, all THEY want to do is raise taxes to pay for more poor people. SO either A) you say to not give breaks to the wealthy which is unfair in my opinion since we are all paying the same percents or B) raise taxes to help poor people which totally contradicts what you say in the first paragraph. Poor spots in the economy happen, it would of happen even if ANYONE was president. He doesn't just think of poor people ya know, he gave EVEYONE a tax break which is FAIR. And what is the so called miracle plan the democrats have to better America, oh yeah right the good 'ole QUICK Fix by just making the middle class pay out money and the rich. yet Bush wants to cut taxes for the middle class and the rich which he DID DO!!! Tax cuts TAKE A LONG TIME to work, look at Reagan's cuts, it really started to take shape and make it better around 1992. We should not do the quick fix because if Kerry has his way, the middle class and the rich will shift out money and yet again the working people would be stiffed. In fact a lot of poor people are poor because of their own fault. And again you people wonder where these jobs are? Well the economy was going down the crapper at the end of the clinton year, and bush made it better, then came 9/11 which DID DESTROY IT, now we are in resession and if you look at the actual plans of bush, contributed NOTHING to this downfall. In fact since 9/11, we have been creating more jobs. why dont you guys actual research these facts, and see that bush did nothing to cause this, he has made it better, and i prefer that then the quick fix by kerry which WOULD NOT create jobs. Ressesions happen yet Bush gets blamed, even though he passed nothing that caused it too!

PVS
"look at Reagan's cuts, it really started to take shape and make it better around 1992"

OH FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reagan left office in 88, but you give him credit for our economy in 92...which wasnt that great. our economy didnt start to kick in until like 93-94, partly thanks to the online boom.

trickle down economics does NOT work, it has NEVER worked and it WILL NEVER WORK.

Arachnoidfreak
http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html

Yes, it's a game. A very informative game. Uses facts. During the Clinton administration, the economy was up to 500 million dollars. During Bush, we were at -1 trillion. Wow.

Under Bush's plan, the rich get rewarded for being rich. Does that sound fair? Not to me.

PVS
oh i just cant wait for this damn election to be over

politics are so stressful

i think we all can at least agree on that

Jackie Malfoy
TOday is your lucky day.It is elecation day!Yea!Anyway this is about welfare through not poltics even through that is in everybody's mind these days.
Ok when Clintion was president did he do anything for the poor people or do this welfare plan?No he did not.Believe me if Bush is president again I am sure he would do something about it.
No reason not to after all!JM

PVS
that last post scored a negative 10 on the make-senseometer

Jedi Priestess
That would be because the author scores a 20 on the stupid-o-meter laughing out loud

Arachnoidfreak
um, if you didn't know JM, Clinton brought this county's economy to $500 million. Where is it with Bush? Trying to come back from -$1 trillion. That's alot of money that Bush basically flushed down the toilet.

finti
nah Clinton let them taste his weener, I would love to know how Bush would stick it to them

PVS
if only the special olympics hade a debating team

finti
they do it is called EU parliament

Turbo-Cajun
Blind folded and hand cuffed like the Abu Graib prisoners... hes into that deviant kind of shit. Guys all tied up and naked laying on top each other and shit... icky.

A vote for Bush is a vote naked hand cuffed men. Because hes into that kind of stuff.

PVS
LOL!!!!!! laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud

that point has just about as much logic as all those mudslinging adds laughing out loud

funny stuffbig grin

shellie
laughing out loud all of todays post has me cracking up here...omg...welfare is funny shit today...im dieing here....


JM you're 14 freaking years old...how the hell do you know what kind of president Clinton was...you were 6 when he was first brought into office and 10 when he left....

sounds like you get your info from convos you hear around you sweetie .

my personal opinion is that Clinton was a way better president then Bush...so what he had an affair and like dipping his cigars...he did his job . thats all that matters .







ok im done ranting off topic now....sorryerm

finti
ehh no she was 2 when he was elected for his first term

shellie
my goof ...she was 2

finti
well Clinton years was so fun that the 8 years flew away like they just were half of the time so you are excused, it is a common mistake

ragesRemorse
I so hope i hit the lottery and become a millionare one day. I would have a parade in new york city. I would hire 100 people to dress up in business suits. We would all parade down the streets, burning $100 bills in the faces of homeless people, spitting chewed up pizza in their faces and chucking nickles and pennies at them. I fu.ckin hate the homeless and bums. mad mad

Turbo-Cajun
I dont mean to especially mean here, but I really do hope that you loose absolutely everything that you own.

Arachnoidfreak
They hate you too! So, it's all good.

Jackie Malfoy
It is funny pvs.Your thread is what remains me that there is alot of stupid people in this world that acted and think just like you.Strange ha?Anyway annoring some reather imature posts from child.
Let me say that The Republicans don't give money to the rich I don't see where you guys are geting this information.It sounds like a thing a dem would say through!
Ok now lets get back to welfare shall we?Also pvs next time you think of responding to my thread I will report you.I stayed out of yours.Now stay out of mined.
It is inleast the mature thing that you could do.JM

PVS
thats just sadsad

i hope you are just posting this to ruffle feathers and that you dont really believe this in your heart.

and JM...REPORT ME...or shall i report myself for you?
just keep in mind that the mods do NOT appreciate it when people
manipulate their report function just to feed some vendetta.

Jackie Malfoy
I am willing to give you one last change,Since I am a nice person.Next time you do start posting here flaming me and what not then I will report you.
I hate to but you give me no choice.Don't worry about me.I dealed with mods with this sort of thing before and belive me they argee with me most of the time.JM

Spicy_Mchaggis
im just going to say one thing, this whole thread would make you look a hell of a lot more smarter if you had spelled welfare right.
down with bush!

PVS
im sorry, but isnt the topic on WELFARE?
your threats mean absolutely zero to me...so report me no expression

and there is no solid overwealming proof that democrats or republicans
give money to the poor or take it away.

however, bush's tax cuts have been proven to mostly benefit the 1% richest in america. the basis of his tax cuts are the idiotic concept of trickle down economics, which was attempted in the 80's and led to a defecit...surprise surprise.

Jackie Malfoy
Consider yourself reported!and I am not threating you.Yes this is about welfare let us go on with the discussing.It been nice knowing you.JM

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