Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

This is mostly for the females out here.....

Does anyone else have this problem that when debating with males they look down upon you?

This is mostly from a school point of view, but we have a debate team and it seems that everytime we practise the males just assume they are right, and are never able to concede defeat to a female. It's like that's the most shameful thing in society, to be outsmarted by a female

Even here I see it all the time....

It's like " Oh she's just a girl, what could she know about anything?" ranting

Oh, I'd concede to a girl. Under...certain conditions.

By "certain conditions" I mean a blanket.

Hilarious as always

No way...Omega shuts guys and women up all the time.


But I know what you're talking about, I'm probably guilty of it...

God I love being me!

Off with you're head Link! giljotiini

Take away my right to be sexist and you're taking away my humanity!

g'night Irene! wavey

Toodles darling winkiss

Link is right, Omega kicks ass. This is an indisputable fact.

Chill out. Guys can be assholes, and I know so because I'm a guy. So don't worry about. Guys have a certain thing about losing to a girl because men have rule strongly over the world for centuries.

Don't worry. Be happy.

Omega can kick anyone's ass in a debate.

But yeah, I've had that problem before...and it really pisses me off because I'm a good debater (I was on the debate team in high school and took a debate class) and I love debating.

I do too, and I'm not even exaggerating, but it especially infuriates me when guys talk down to you even though your I.Q ia like 40 points higher than theres

Get over yourselves

*just can't get over himself*

*stands*Hi, I'm Arachnoidfreak, and I have a problem...

Oh god I know...I hate that so much...'specially since my IQ IS about 40 points higher than most people's, yet so many people act like I don't know what I'm talking about and talk down to me...err, yeah, apparently if I'm in the top 1% of students my age in the US I have SOME brains, yeah?

(I'm not saying those things to brag or exaggerate...just to state a fact that supports how it infuriates me to be talked down to...)

One more word and you get it just like Link death

no. women are inferior.

I like muffins, and girls

who cares if they think they're right, because half the time they are.

I'm not ashamed to admit it. we're all human, and its not fair to look down on women for this reason.

maybe its just me but i very seldem see sexism in my everyday life, i didnt think it was still an issue!

maybe some women are just over-reacting (then again maybe not...but you probably are)

Hey, I have NO problem with women telling me what to do or that they're 100% correct, as long as 1. they actually are correct, and 2. it's in the right context. And by "right context" I mean bed. Oh, I used that joke already didn't I? Well, it's good to recycle.

Old jokes are laaame.

I can beat all women in a debate.

There, fuel for your fire. Enjoy.

You do realize the major contradiction in this post, right? You do realize you are insinuating that YOU in some way are superior to them because you have a higher IQ, but then you say that they should "get over themselves".

Also, I.Q. has very little, if anything, to do with debate skill. Actually it has very little to do with anything of any importance.

All IQ means is that if you ask someone with a high IQ the question "if 2 trains are going towards eachother at 69 miles an hour, and they started off 2,346 miles apart, how long will it take for them to meet" they'll answer it more quickly then someone with a low IQ. Nothing more. It's a number so people with low selfesteem can feel better about themselves.

I'd imagine someone with an IQ of 140 (40 points higher than the average) - which places you in the top half of a percent of the population - IE the most intelligent group on the planet ) - would be a little smarter in her debating skills.

I dont say that because you are female - I say that because you said something dumb as dirt.

I'm a rubbish debater, I've never once had the inclination to join in a discussion of any sort...

Anyway in my vast and ancient experience women can be just as much up themselves as men when it comes to debating. Infact I love to let them roll with it on purpose when I know full well they're wrong because it's so funny watching them fall flat on their faces. However I'm not sexist I let men do exactly the same thing when they're convinced they're right when they're not!

Trust me - If a guy hates to be proved wrong by a female - chances are he will hate to be proved wrong by a male also: It's just that Thanks to alpha male hierarchy you can't show your displeasure when bested by another guy - but with a female you can make a lot of noise to distract from the fact that you were mistaken about something.

The problem isn't so much about conceding defeat when wrong tho' - it's about the presumption that a man must be right if it's a women making the counter argument. Worst of all is that its not just men who make this mistake - women are far more likely to take men more seriously than other women.

The sad truth is that non-sexist women are just as much of a minority as non-sexist men. Our only chance is to breed a new race of smarter people and take over the world.

"Our only chance is to breed a new race of smarter people and take over the world."

But that would rule you out....

Dude - quit spoiling my pick-up lines.

Bah, I always spoil everything.

on our way dude, Im the first generation.
Norsemen will rule the world once again

I find that women are lacking a sense of logic reasoning and naive as hell smartass

"Does anyone else have this problem that when debating with males they look down upon you?"

From my experience, guys will mostly keep their mouths shut in a debate situation if they know nothing or not much.

Women tend to steam in all guns blazing.

As I said, my experience.

-AC

ive had the same experience, its not all women of course, but alot of them.

debating with women when they outnumber you mus t be how a cock has it in a hen house

all i gotta say is females win the males every year in our school exams

Our education system is totally wrecked though.

thats cos the guys are too busy staring at the girls (also see my second point)



thats true everywhere, its been said that the structure of the curriculum (here at least) suits girls more than boys

^ One of the teachers at school once mentioned that girls perform better in an all girls school, whole boys performed better in a co-ed.

i heard something similar to that also.

It is best to put pupils together with their own categories as far as it is possible to do so ie same abilities, same age, same gender etc.

"all i gotta say is females win the males every year in our school exams"

See now this probably isn't as stone cold a fact as the person would have you believe and if the person is a female, proving my point.

Women say things far too matter of factly according to how they feel. That's the most annoying thing.

-AC

I think the female psychiatrist was easier to handle than the first one

alpha, even i'll admit that women seem to do better than guys in school, its a fact in ireland. there are a couple of guys who do really well, but the majority of high scorers are female, and ive read its pretty much the same everywhere else... unfortunately

what?

Of course, schoolastic achievments is not a valid measurement of ones intelegence. It simply means they applied themselves more then the other students.

exactly, some people just arent academically minded, myself included.

never been a fact in the schools I have attended nad that is after all these years of education quite many

i said in ireland, where it is a proven fact. Ive read the same is in most european countries.

^ Depends on the areas of study/school/subject

to be honest imo its the fact that there are so many subjects to take in school. most girls seem to be better at doing many different subjects, while boys are better when they specialise in only a few subjects. its not all, but most i think.

This is a generalisation but women do better in humanities subjects while men do better in mathematics/science.

well im shit at maths, but yeah, i think for the most part your right.

do better in economics too

men or women?

men off course .........................................

^ Mathematics!

i was good at biology, french, history and art, is that normal for a guy?

^ Erm, you talkin' to me?

history is a typical guy subject, the others though no that are chick things

thx...

hyde what do you think?

Didn't want to answer "chick things"

History is a typical guy subject because of all those wars (makes the computer games more fun to play)

very funny hyde

Complaining that women make rash "factual" exaggerated statements to excuse a sexist attitude - by making a rash "factual" exaggerated sexist statement.

If you have to contradict yourself so badly at least lose the sexism - your making us all look like cretins.

Guys specially in highschool thinks they are right all the time even if they are not.And try to play sports with them they just leave the girls out of the game altogether!
I don't mind that much I get too hurt anyway when I play hockey with guys they are too rough.Anyway no the guys never looked down at me.
When I debate againt them we go back and forth but they ever say you are just a stupid girl and don't anything.
If I did say that to me I would say I may be a girl but I have the same knowledge as you and I attend to use it!Thank goodies we could vote now!jm

yeah thats because most girls suck at sports

sorry couldnt resist

schmoll

i think at early teen ages girls arent really great at sports unless theyve been playing for a few years, most guys are more natural at that age. as for being rough, thats because guys are more prone to rough behaviour at that age, they are also more comfortable in contact sports at that age. there are a lot of great female athletes though.

Back at my high school its interesting, our Public speakers were brillient, truly brillient, and 95% were girls, in fact most of the debating teams were made up of girls, who in Australia at least appear to be the best public speakers in the schools. As one of the few males on a team I had upmost respect for their skills and oppinions. Although they could be scary sometimes when they got going.

i'd rather watch a debate then be in one....the few times ive been in a debate i didnt have this problem . im not a good debater nor do i try to be . i just put my 2 cents in and go from there .

I've only actively participated in all male debates.

Online debating is one thing, but I'm an especially excellent formal debater. Man, woman, child, it doesn't matter. Regardless of your gender, you will all fall under the might of my massive ego.. erm...intellect...

it exists


but eg i like when guys open doors in front of me, and carry heavy stuff for me.

nice to see there are some women like that still around.

question: is chivalry sexist?

what is 'chivalry'?

opening doors, pulling out chairs, carrying things for a woman, stuff like that.

nope - wrong.

about what?

The Art of Courtly Love

Marriage is no real excuse for not loving.
He who is not jealous cannot love.
No one can be bound by a double love.
It is well known that love is always increasing or decreasing.
That which a lover takes against the will of his beloved has no relish.
Boys do not love until they reach the age of maturity.
When one lover dies, a widowhood of two years is required of the survivor.
No one should be deprived of love without the very best of reasons.
No one can love unless he is propelled by the persuasion of love.
Love is always a stranger in the home of avarice.
It is not proper to love any woman whom one would be ashamed to seek to marry.
A true lover does not desire to embrace in love anyone except his beloved.
When made public love rarely endures.
The easy attainment of love makes it of little value: difficulty of attainment makes it prized.
Every lover regularly turns pale in the presence of his beloved.
When a lover suddenly catches sight of his beloved his heart palpitates.
A new love puts an old one to flight.
Good character alone makes any man worthy of love.
If love diminishes, it quickly fails and rarely revives.
A man in love is always apprehensive.
Real jealousy always increases the feeling of love.
Jealousy increases when one suspects his beloved.
He whom the thought of love vexes eats and sleeps very little.
Every act of a lover ends in the thought of his beloved.
A true lover considers nothing good except what he thinks will please his beloved.
Love can deny nothing to love.
A lover can never have enough of the solaces of his beloved.
A slight presumption causes a lover to suspect his beloved.
A man who is vexed by too much passion usually does not love.
A true lover is constantly and without intermission possessed by the thought of his beloved.
Nothing forbids one woman being loved by two men or one man by two women.

cool zero, very cool, but what did i do wrong?

feminists consider that as sexist
i like these stuff

your definition of chivalry - i posted the "art of courtly love" side of chivalric action - there is a fighty side also but its not so relevant.

its not sexist, its called being a gentleman, but if it is, then in that case im sexist

k zero, but i dont think my definition was wrong

i know it is being a gentleman

i said that some feminists consider that this way.
you know it is against that equality thing

i know, but i dont see a problem in being couteous to a woman

neithe do i.
i like it. and it is very comfortable to be honest

If you're comparing my debating skills with what how I debate on here, then yeah, I know that I don't come off as the best debater. When it comes to formal debates, though, which I have been doing for years (like I said, I was on the debate team in high school and have taken debate classes), I am very good and rarely lost a debate. Too bad it's been ages since I've been able to participate in one...

I'm actually very good at science, it was my best subject in school. If I wasn't so set on studying art I'd probably be studying physics right now in college. I am crap at most sports, though...

I think your a Master debater.

That is SUCH a lame joke.

Silver Tears> “Does anyone else have this problem that when debating with males they look down upon you?”

Actually, I’ve come to the following conclusion.
The guys who look “down” on me for being female are not the kind of guys I even WANT to debate with. Their views are stifled and conservative, they’re terrified of strong independent women – and easily scared away

The guys I CAN debate with treat me – and I treat them – with equal amounts of respect.

GODDAMNIT, I was going to say that.

I wish you had.

Hmm, not really with the debate point of view. I have won arguments with males before.

Id like to debate with people who have brains, as opposed to dumbasses who try to sell me their philosophy aout something they know next to nothing about.

As for the sexism, yes i do have major problems when it comes to that. I, as a woman have to run faster and jump further in order to be considered anywhere near as equal as a guy.

"Me, as a woman have to run faster and jump further in order to be considered anywhere near as equal as a guy."


And wear revealing clothing.

I don't look down on women or men in debates. I try to tear my opponents apart equally.

-AC

that depends. it's a left over from a time when women were considered rather helpless, so in that aspect it's not particularly charming, and if a guy's 'chivalrous' to me in a patronizing, babysitter sort of way, I won't enjoy it.
on the other hand, it can be a great way of flirting since it clearly indicates that 'me tarzan, you jane', and if both are aware of this and takes advantage of it in a respectful manner, it can be great.

yes you do, you try to look down their blouse

*beats on chest and lets out Tarzan scream*

I skimmed the things here... but I have missed the part were someone would say that from time to time certain girls will say "you're sexist"
don't get me wrong, to me there is absolutely no reason to see that men or women are not equal to eachother
BUT I do want to say that certain women quickly jump to the conclusion someone is sexist... a bit too soon from time to time

(and note that I say "certain" I don't say "all" or "everyone on kmc"

I say the same about other things of course, like ...Forgot the word... against jews... that some jump to that too, to get emotional support from people

again, I don't say all do this, it's a really small group

oh dear! with all that working out you do, that chest of yours's gonna be pretty colorfull now

*crumbles to the floor and takes deep breaths*
it huuuuuuuuurts, it huuuuuuuuurts ussesssssssss

*tries to figure out word*
rasism?

no, it's not that ... not important anyway

Anti-Sematic?

yup, but not important

i've tried cry

trying is the first step to failure

Is chivalry sexist?
It depends. We’re living in a time-period were the gender-roles we’ve had for the last couple of hundred years are changing – stuff like “mum+dad+2½” kid is not what everyone strives for. Not every girl sees man+marriage+kids as the meaning of her life, just as not every guy thinks it’s the epitome of life to support a family and watch football.
But we’re in a transition period, and some stuff sticks. I like polite gentlemen, but as Destiny’s Child sang in the theme from Charlies Angles… “I depend on me.”

As I said, I've held open doors for women and been bitched at for thinking they "Can't do it themselves." Then I've tried letting them do it alone and I get "Wow what a true gentleman you are."

Strange.

-AC

i know. it is better to resignate without even trying

i've had exactly the same experience, but ill keep opening doors

damn TO... I have had some talks with girls about that already

I'm raised in a family where hospitality to guests is VERY important... Normally, if you are my guest... say, at home, on a date, or just going out, I am taught to pay for everything the guest has to pay for (but not the extras, so if you're in the zoo, you pay for that gigantic stuffed animal, but I'll buy the ticket, drink, food, ...)

Some girls I dated don't mind that at all, they see it as chivalry
Some girls I dated mind it a lot since "I take away their (financial) independance".

But do I have the intend to be sexist?
not at all
I see opening doors and such as a normal curtosy which I give to everyone... I also see taking care of guests as an important thing I have to do, no matter what the sex is of the guest.

I.e. Corran was here a few months ago, I talked with the others and stressed that I did not like him (Corran) to pay for anything since it's insulting my hospitality (so I have been taught)... is that sexist? no, it's how you're raised ... and ok ... I would have loved to have gone down with him (j/k)

If I get called a 'gentleman' for holding a door open I usually disagree and say I'm just being polite. As Yerssot said it depends how you're brought up. I was brought up in what appears to be a very similar fashion - even down to my love of food and all things chocolate...

you must be belgian

yeeeaaaah...

I feel terrible for you

Dont I'm just an old english dog who probably has some great grandparent belgian person relative thing.

sheppard from mechelen perhaps?

well I've eaten shepphards pie, maybe that's where I get it from!

you hold doors open? marry me cry

you ate your family?

I hold doors open, pull out chairs etc. That's what I consider common courtesy.

-AC

same here, but some might dislike it

f*ck em, there are plenty of women who appreciate it, i know cos i do it all the time.

Yeah lets in an awful draft though...

Oh and and Sils anytime!

Sexellent

I rather not annoy a woman though... so if they have a problem, I'll slam the door shut

and the fact that guy is opening doors is not normal?

to some it is sexism

i've never understood feminists

I do... unless they push it too hard

Everyone holds doors open for ladies don't they? Even my young sons do, isn't this normal behaviour?

*clings to corran*
I don't know cry

ow, you've been working out

nah not really, just the usual bedroom aerobics

without me pissed

HOlding doors open is sexism? How dumb. I like having doors opened for me, I like having chairs pulled out for me, I don't reckon it's sexist at all, it's good manners!

I can think all this because men don't talk down to me. I've never had this problem. They look down at me though (because I'm 5'2 I reckon). Anyway, I think women invite that kind of thing (I'm not starting a fight here). It's just that if you can handle yourself and your debates clearly and logically, then there's no gap to be "spoken down" to. Also, maybe they're not talking down to you. Maybe certain women just think so because that's what they've been taught to think.

Who can say? Logic wins the day (damn that's cheesy)

well, I'll open doors for you moneypenny

Moneypenny is right.

Men look down on other men, it happens within genders also. Yet as she said, if you don't give anyone any room or reason to look down ON you then they wont be able to. I've had many older men try to silence me in a debate just because I'm 18 but I stood my ground and proved myself and you can't deny real knowledge, charisma, potential or confidence. Prove you've got these just as much as your supposed "superiors" and you'll be fine.

-AC

So that means you're not sexist! Good. I wonder who started all that crap about sexism and feminism anyway?

women

That's a fact! The one's who burnt their bras, through away their razors and wondered why they didn't have a date for the evening.

hysterical

i really don't understand them.


why did they fight about working in the mine and going to the army


i undertsnad the part about mini skirts

mind that those who fought hardest for their rights aint the one choosing to try the way they opened.

that's sad. and kinda unfair.

just say more about the movement

i mean that those ladys acting was unfair.
dunno maybe they were bored or sumthin

AC> Good point.
Age or gender shouldn’t be what we judge debate-partners from. I’ve discussed with 20-years olds who were far more mature and experienced than 40-year olds. I’ve met 16-year old girls who could out-debate anyone, and 50 year old men who sounded as dumb as a door.

But let’s face it: there is still is not equality in our society. Barring 3rd world countries were women are still treated as property (I can’t help wondering WHEN and HOW this happened), even the West is not equal – wage statistics show as much. The number of women-executives show as much.
And trust me: There are a lot of men (AND women) who still view women as inferior to men.
Then give the woman blue eyes and blond hair, and watch the astonished look on many men’s faces when she tells them she’s a physicist!

All>
I don’t view holding doors and pulling out chairs as sexist. It’s well-mannered.
BUT… Think about it. What does it signal? That the woman can’t open the door herself? Or even pull out a chair??
Don’t get me wrong – I feel comfortable in the company of a gentleman – but where should we draw the line?

Well, you've convinced me, I will no longer pull out chairs, open doors, or pay for the meals of my gf. And if she gives me any lip, I'll have her read this thread.

as long as she likes you doing it BF I'd continue doing it if she nags about you doing it I'd stop

BF> Ay, don’t misunderstand me.
We live in a society where gentlemanly behaviour is considered well-mannered. I like it, too. But I’ve been thinking about it.
What is “lady-like” behaviour?
I don’t want the two genders to become “the same”, we should enjoy our “differences” (NO, not fighting ), but how can we signal that without “Oh, heavy door”, “Oh, heavy chair” and “Oh, I can’t pay for my own food?”

(Doesn't want hate-mail from BF's girlfriend )