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I looked but did not see this anywhere so why not ask it!Anyway I think that they have a soul but don't go to heaven,
What are your thoughts on this?Any thoughts or anything you want to share?
See you around!JM

Jackie, you win the prize!

For what?JM

You win the prize!

Ok what ever you say!JM

yeah, they probably go to heaven where god eats them, and hunts them. If God diddnt hunt, what else would he do with his safari hat?

yes animals do go to heaven when they die because they have soul but have no sin so they go to heaven and will be back on this earth when god makes a new heaven and a new earth along with the dinosaurs and all others. Don't believe me then get jack van impe video animals in heaven he explains everything.

hahaha

I diddnt buy that crap when i was 5 and forced to go to sunday school, and i am not buying it now, but if jack van impe says it's so. I may have to re think this one.

haha... Dick Van Impe is a pimp.

err Jack Van Impe... havent seen his show in long ass time.

This is an interesting debate that may never be solved unless our animals can talk to us and explain their thoughts... But they can't so we can only interpret what they're saying by the noises they make. And in answering your question, I don't believe animals have the mental ideal of heaven. They live for such a short time and live for the moment. They don't have a concept of death. Humans are the only "animals" on this planet that have any concept of death.

Personally I just think they do. If not then I will be sad.

Of course animals go to heaven! They are alive right? Plants too! I bet I'm going to see that rose I picked last week in heaven when I die. But that daisy is going to hell. Its a weed.

hey wheres choice"stfu JM because youve had too much mental trauma to be posting on kmc"?

No, they do not go to heaven, well at least that's what I believe.

Animals seem to be the best and purest existentialists in the world. I tip my hat to them.

Animals have no souls-

so sad because I wont see my pet cat, Days, in Heaven

i guess when they die- they just turn to dirt

also sad - cause I won't see this bunny - that is in my sig - in Heaven--

actually this bunny is probably already a gonner...

If there is a Heaven, which is open to debate, and animals aren't allowed, which would be the most unfair thing imaginable, then I don't wanna go.

However, you are obviously asking from a Christian point of view. Most other beliefs have a closer relationship with animals, it is only the Christian belief system that encourages the belief that humans are so much more superior than animals.

True that DreamPanther. It may crush a few egos to know that humans are still animals too. We may be the dominant species on earth but we're no more 'special' or immortal than a cat or dog.

You are talking about new age right?I know that religon believes that there indeed are human spirts in animals.This I am not sure to belive but it is reather interesting.
There fore if this is true then animals do go to heaven when they die.JM

Every generation has their own idea of Heaven. We don't know if animals understand the concept of death. But I remember when my dog died 7 mnts ago -- she knew something. She hide behind a wishing well in the farest corner of the back yard. When animals know their time has come they want to be alone. But I'm not sure if she knew she was going to die or she knew something was different. In the end Dakota just laid down and died. She was still alive when we took her to the vet, but she couldn't move and her bowels were fulled with blood. And in the end she kissed me on the lips, as if to say good-bye.

Did she know the concept of Death? I don't know.

The bible is unspecific about whether animals have souls or not. May fundamentalists say "no" - many wishy washy liberal interpretation-ists say "yes"

Bottom line - if animals do have souls and dont have free will - they are far more likely to get into heaven than you are under gods strict law.

Heaven is probably like a pet store with several thousand million animals and half a dozen people.

Who says animals don't have Free Will?

Read a bible.

when animals die, do you think they go to heaven?
yes or no:

no, because I don't believe in heaven
no, because they are not allowed

yes, they are allowed
--
if you want to go religious on this (which the question states that it should be with the assumption there is a heaven) there can be only one clear answer... that or you can consider yourself a heretic from deviating from your religion ()

by coincidence, I'm currently working on the interaction philosophers had with the church and it subjects in the southern lowcountries at the prelude of the french revolution

taking into account that their vision has not changed from that point till now, the answer would be : yes

In the letter archbishop van Franckenberg wrote in 1782, he claims philosophers have as intention to make the humans like animals; with being voluptuous and amusement of senses.
Then he goes into explaining it more, and states further on:
"that these animals should not fear Judgement for they have no sins"
he was refering to "real" animals here (dog, cat, ... not persons "infected" with philosohpy)
so, taking that phrase, yes.. they do go to heaven and are sin-less.

(The letter was received by the pope and van Franckenberg received congratst for his currage against this desease)

No, I dont think animals go to heaven; or any living being for that matter. The whole idea of going to heaven or hell is just fantasy. After u die, you become wormfood and slowly dissapear. Nothing else happens. Thats my oppinion.

If anybody gos to heaven you can bet your house animals do.If anything,animals are more deserving of it than the human race.The way the human race has screwed up this world,makes me ashamed of being a human at times.

I have come across some weeds in my time that have made me feel like i was in heaven. I bet those weeds are defaintly in heaven marked as God's sweet stash.

How can you say that? I mean, animals dont willingly choose to give their lives for another. Animals act on insticnt, they are not swayed by temtaptions of good and evil. for you non religous folk, good and bad. If their was anything that doesnt go to heaven, i would say it is animals. They are just here for our amuesment and appetite.

What are you talking about? Mr Parker was right, animals are much better than people. what person could be more faithful than a dog with its owner? none. Also, the man is the only animal who kills by pleasure or evilness, that is clear. So, if there are a heaven, animals should be there much more than humans. That is clear.

I had read somewhere in the bible that when one guy was taken to heaven he was flew up there with white horses.So if animals don't go to heaven then what were those white horses doing and how did they get there?
Anyone have any thoughts on this.Also if you know what I am talking about in the bible.What was the name of it and what was the name of the guy taken to heaven?JM

If animals had the same mental capacity as human beings, no one would be talking about the sanctity of animals. Yeah, Man is the only animal that kills in cold blood, but man is also the only other animal that will give it's life willingly for another, or risk everything to help a fellow human being. Animals dont act on choice, they act on instinct. Why should an animal get to heaven over a human when it is only acting on instinct. Sometimes people are faced with decesions that are heavily conflicted. The better decesion a person could make, may be a sin. A human beings behaviour isnt as black and white as many people make it out to be. By the way, Spot doesnt like you because your his master, he likes you becuase you bring him food, and stroke his belly.

Very interesting thought.And true too!But what about the white horses in the bible?Don't you think that proves that there are animals in heaven?JM

If i am going to get serious. I dont know if animals go to heaven. I dont see why they wouldnt. I know it says in the Bible that they dont, but the Bible says many things that contradicts itself. Animals sometimes resemble humans greatly. If infact we as humans did evovle from moneky's then i would have to say without a doubt that animals go to heaven, or atleast an animal heaven? I just dont think they should deserve a place in heaven because they act merely on instict and are praised as being more civilized as humans. Besides, many of the things in the Bible were written through interpertation, maybe what that person was seeing wasnt white horses,but could only be described at that time as white horses. then again who knows, maybe there really were giant grasshopers lined in iron romaing the world back then.

I don't agree. I have read numerous accounts of animals saving humans, when they could have turned away and hid and saved themselves.

Dismissing this as mere instinct is too simplistic an argument. As for "man is also the only other animal that will give it's life willingly for another, or risk everything to help a fellow human being", that is patently false. Frequently there are accounts of of animals jumping into rivers to save human beings, or storming into a burning building to save a human being.

As for "giving it's life willingly for another", do yourself a favour and watch a documentary about mothers protecting their young. This might be described as "mere instinct", or giving it's life to save a human as "mere loyalty", but then, give me some more of this "mere loyalty" and a little less of "human mental capacity".

In the end, if there should be a "Christian God", I would expect Him or Her to judge us not on intellect, but on loyalty, courage and steadfastness.

you DO all know that there is only one canon answer to this?

Animals don't have a soul. God created them so that we can eat them. Except the poisonus ones.

Because Arch Bishop Van Frackenburg said it doesn't mean that that is the truth... he is human, he could easily be wrong. What about the dogs that are just meaner than shit? I've seen some mean dogs before... what about the dogs that kill kids? pit bulls bite, kill toddler


I think if there is a heaven that not all animals go there.

Some animals may or may not go to heaven, but humans sure as hell don't. no2

The Bible is outdated by like 2,000 years. And this is strickly my opinion, but also a fraud. The stories are taken from countless other civilizations well before Christianity. That's not to say there isn't a higher power. I just believe the Bible isn't the true word but a representation of human knowledge put into a pretty compensation and then flawnted for those who can't comprehend the meaning of what human thought really means.

All wild animals act on instict. There is no way around that. There is nothing anyone can say to disprove this fact. Yeah, i am sure there are accounts out there, where domesticated animals have done somthing to save their masters. Then again, is this instict or choice? When a gaurd dog protects it's owner, It is doing so from instict that has been impressed over years, and sometimes centuries of domesticated training. the point that matters though is that a wild animal acts on nothing but instinct. when a domesticated animal does somthing rash to protect it's owner, it is not using rationality, it is not weighing the pro's and cons of the situation. It does not know that it's life could possibly be on the line. Animals dont understand right from wrong, unless they are trained, even then it is only learning from repetition, and not by a conscious decesion.

As for animal mothers protecting it's young, yes this is instict. Yeah, there could be a bond between the two, but it is still instinct. an instinct that nature chose to give to the mother. The male counterpart does not protect it's young, atleast in many races of animals. What about the mother wolf who will sometimes eat it's young?

Two facts you must remember

1. We go on reflex too. I could be stopped from writing this piece, against all my conscious might, to get a galaxy out of the newsagents nearby if I see a wrapper. That's a sensory reflex. A way that "true love" is sparked, is when you smell another's biological signal and find they have an opposing immune system. If I put my life on the line to protect a person who's trapped in the middle of the road with a car approaching, I'm not "weighing the pro's and cons of the situation" but just acting on reflex that if a person's in danger, you protect them. Lucky too, or they'd have been hit by the car, due to the half second of thought required

2. There was an episode of Braniac where a scientist played a game of cards with a monkey, and cheated in an obvious way. The monkey went ballistic, and went even more ballistic when he did it again. That was a conscious decision. Just because humans train them, doesn't mean that animals cannot act on their minds. Wolfs, despite popular opinion, don't attack humans normally. Cats have a incredible capacity for manipulation that we don't train them in.

I like your style, Ytaker.
As for you ragesRemorse, so can I take it that your reasoning run as follows:
Animals act from instinct.
People act from rationality.
Therefore only people go to Heaven.

So, in essence, according to you, God created animals to be without thought, without reasoning, in fact, without a SINGLE redeeming feature that would allow them to go to heaven, because, according to you, they don't have courage, loyalty, or, in fact, love. Only instinct.

Man, that's a lot of effort to spend to create something that will just die and end, never to be heard of again. You'd think after He (or She) went to all that effort to save them from extinction, by making Noah build an ark and getting two from every species in order to keep them alive, S/He would allow at least SOME of them into Heaven. Or is S/He scared that S/He runs out of space in Heaven?

Since S/He is so all powerful and all mighty, and S/He didn't plan on letting them into heaven anyway, why didn't S/He just let them die out in the flood and create some new ones? Or something totally different?
Why go through all that effort to save them?

Like I said, I like your style.

I never said that animals dont have characteristics such as loyalty, courage and so on. I am just saying they act on insticnt rather than a conscious decesion of the world around them.

If you want to bring the Bible into your argument, the Bible says that animals do not have souls. Not that i bank on that statment. Infact i have said in previous posts, that i dont know if animals go to heaven, and infact i do not see why the wouldnt. I just dont see why an animal would get to heaven over a human being.

I don't see why they go to heaven OVER a human being, either. I just think it will be kind of empty without them, so why can't they go as well?
But, I guess in the end it comes down to your personal belief and religion,and there is really only one way to find out.

I never said that animals dont have characteristics such as loyalty, courage... a sense of justice (with the blackjack monkey), a recognition of greatness (or whatever reason the wolf doesn't attack us but does a bear), manipulativly evil but cute reactions to a new enviroment that their DNA didn't allow for...

I don't, it was a joke. But if we are going along that avenue, remember that there's more than enough space for animals. If a human needs one, then there's going to be no problems with any aspect of it. You've got the angels for cleaning up the mess, the cerubs for meat (the little tubs of lard) and fire swords for shaving. What's the problem with an animal going into heaven?

Look, I'm biased. I love animals (and please don't get all kinds of dirty thoughts). When I was a kid, I had three cats and two dogs and they all slept on my bed with me. When I was sad, they would listen without judging, When they thought we were threatened, they were ready to lay down their lives for us. When I was happy, they were more than ready to share in my joy.

I wish more people were like that.

Humans have a greater ability for these things, but your pets are almost always at a level higher than most humans. Read Issac Asimov's robot stories, and you'll see how humans treat things they regard as beneath them, and how those creatures always do the best for humans.

I hope they go to heaven because a small dog I had when I was six saved my life I think she would deserve to go to heaven

And by the way anybody that makes fun of JM sucks

Yeah, but there are people who devote and dedicate their lives to animals, and nature. Not a few, but many. Just becuase some humans are blinded by the power they are given doesnt mean you can black ball the entire race as being a dominant power driven tyrant. How can we say what animals would be like if they held the same kind of mental capacity of humans. I believe some animals can remind us of what is really important about living. There is no reaosn to stigmatize the entire human race on how some people treat animals though. We as humans have been given great power when compared to all other living creatures. This power can be used righteously or terribly.

Hunting is not inmoral because it is a natural part of life if it is all preadators such as Lions and wolves are evil.

of course hunting is not inmoral. Now hunting for pure enjoyment, that is another story. I dont know, that is entirely another dicussion right there though.

Humans are naturally immoral though. They turn natural things into evil things, like germs into plague bombs, arsenic into a posionous compound, and hunting into mass slaughters like with the dodo.

yeah, but they can also do the opposite. Making ordinary things into beautifull, and life saving contributons.

I know, but they always start with immorality. First they flung plagued cows over the walls of cities, then they developed penicillin.

No, they go to Oprahs fridge.

What IS it with you and Oprah?

I just don't like her, and I take every oportunity to make fun of her or associate her with something bad (like dead animals).

i'm glad i'm not on your shit list.

I read somewhere that animals have souls but unlike humans it is a different kind of soul.One that does not make them go to heaven when they die unlike us humans.
What do you guys think of this?JM

I think that's retarded. If they don't have an afterlife, they don't have a soul, just a body and a mind

Heaven is not a place, it's a concept created in the mind of Human beings.

Animals are not capable of creating such complex concepts in their mind.

Contrary to you people who believed Fifel when he said there were no cats in America and the streets were filled with cheese.

A useful idea originally put foward by Feuerbach, in a more possible way, useful but useless in it's own way, requiring the non existence of Heaven to be a self evident law.

You mean a good place where somebody cares for all their needs? They could easily have a primitive concept of heaven, the more advanced ones.

Who's Fifel?

yeah she will.

It is funny that BF a mod would be a mod if he does notherig but make fun of people!You must had brid someone real good to be a mod.JM

I do not believe animals go to heaven when they die. That would imply that they could also go to hell. Animals do not have the ability to discern what is right and wrong. Therefore, they would neither be rewarded nor punished for their actions.

They rot in the ground...or in something's stomach.

What faceman?Can't hear you!You are on my list man!Well goodnight everyone!JM

That was unnecessary Jackie.. he didn't even say anything to you.

YES! I made it onto her list! *Throws a sexy party.*

Sorry!JM

We are judged on our faith alone, not on anything else.

Where does it say there is a specific size to hevean? I was under the impression that it was of unlimited size.

Are humans the only creatures to kill for pleasure? Have you been doing interviews of the animals?


I personally think that there are animals in heavan. Not animals which have ascended, but animals that are there.

Congratulations.

You made my list a long time ago.I am very surprise that you had not even noted.JM

JM... no one gives a damn about your list! just ignore who the heck you want, but just don't say it to them and show you're bigger by posting something ontopic

*Gets his power fix from Jackie's feelings of inadequacy and her subsequent need to ignore those who can outwit her.*

This whole debate depends on three major factors.

Religion - Not everyone believes in a "heaven" in the first place, or a God, although I myself do.
Soul - Does an animal have a "soul". Some people don't believe there is even such a thing as a "soul".
Domination - Are humans the "best" organisms on the planet? I don't believe there is a "best" organism, but if there is, the ones who destroy their own planet are the worst.

But, do I believe that animals go to heaven? Yes, if they have a different version of a "soul" and did "good", then yes.

Yes they go to heaven, it says so in the Bible (Revelations if i'm correct). "And all the animals fell down and worshipped god before his throne." Something like that

Originally posted by Falconer
Yes they go to heaven, it says so in the Bible (Revelations if i'm correct). "And all the animals fell down and worshipped god before his throne." Something like that

I think it says living creatures......It's symbolic..

Is this the verse....?

.Revelation 19
4The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God, who was seated on the throne. And they cried:
"Amen, Hallelujah!"

Or...

Revelation 7:11

All the angels were standing around the throne, the elders, and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before his throne, and worshiped God, (WEB)

The Bible has no mention of literal animals worshipping God in heaven. The Bible has no mention that these creatures have also place in heaven. These creatures were not created to worship God anyway.