Magneto | X-Man

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HarmonicFlo88
Nate Grey : Full control over powers.

Erik Magnus Lenshierr : Full potential. to balance it out, lets acknoledge Magneto's experience.




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manjaro
i dont think there is nearly as much fun to have with this as was the magneto vs hulk thread. when you think about it mags would be immune to psi attacks cuz of his helmet. and techinically the way magneto wraps objects in electromagnetic bubbles(even nonmetals) mimic telekiniesis so it would boil down to who can lift heavier stuff to drop on each other.

but X-man does have that reality warping thing going for him tho, but on the other hand unless he shileds himself with a teke-field mags would have free reign on his blood. but i know that someone will say yes he sheilds himself with a teke-field

but alas this one goes to xman

Paptimus
Magneto may be able to protect himself from low-level telepaths, but he's not wearing Juggernaut's helmet here, and Nate Grey is the single most powerful psi in the entire Marvel pantheon. Needless to say, the Master of Magnetism is quite outclassed. There's a first time for everything.

Nathaniel Grey
Magneto isn't " immune " to psionic attacks. He merely has degree of resistance against it due to his helmet. It shields him from most psionic attacks. But we're talking about X-Man here. He's way more potent than the Dark Phoenix and Xavier combined. He'd have little trouble ripping through Magnus' mind and having his way with him. It's a long battle and I've got to take some time to think about it. Magneto is NEVER one to be taken lightly. I don't care who you are.

Nataku8188
Not more then Dark pheonix. Your underating D.P.

Nathaniel Grey
Yes, more than the Dark Phoenix. It's confirmed in Cable issue #29. Read and understand. Moira Mactaggart states that Nate Grey's energy levels are more than likely above those of the Dark Phoenix.

Nataku8188
Moira mctaggart is wrong. A lot.

Dark pheonix = feared throughout galaxy.

X-man = feared throughout earth.

YourBiggestFan
read on one comic that magneto can further more protect himself from psi attack with his Force Field, nothing is going thru.

norrin radd

leonheartmm
first of all , nate IS more powerful than dark pheonix, secondly, nate and franklin richards are the two most powerful mutants in the world, and magneto probably is like somewhere in the top 5, so, after a hard fight{maybe}, nate shoves magneto's own helmet up his ass.

MERCILOUS
Nate can destroy the entire universe? If not then how is he more powerful than Pheonix?

Either way the thread does say Magneto at "full potential." So if his magnetism can afford him some psychic protection then it's reasonable to assume that a "full potential" Magneto could do something in his defense.

leonheartmm
yea he could, infact he might even be able to do something about most of the telepaths but not against nate fer heaven's sake, and dark pheonix was given SOME power of the PHEONIX FORCE, and it was the pheonix force that was a threat to all of existance, not dark pheonix, dark pheonix was just a manifestation of that force with only a hint of its powers. any way, even without telepathy nate can produce destructive psionic spikes, generate illusions, create extremely destructive reactions in matter, and even rip a mino paradox in time{and he could do all this when he wasnt even able to control, let alone, master his powers}, hes also a great telekenetic. hell he destroyed half a state with a single large scale psionic burst, not to ,mention that he FORCED XAVIER, XAVIER! out of the astral plane, something that xavier had belived, was impossible.

leonheartmm
and this he did WITHOUT even having enough control over his power to keep his own powers from harming him, just imagine what he would become when he had FULL control over his powers.

leonheartmm
neway, even without the control of his power, he beat the living crap out of apoaclypse until his submission and he wouldv killed him if cyclops hadnt talked him out of it.

norrin radd
nate is one of the most powrful mutants in earth, dark pheonix is one of the most powerful beings in the universe.

nate would beat regular magneto, we would have to make an update on magneto character, making him god-level like nate, so he would be able to beat him or at least make a fight that would last for ever.

MERCILOUS
Again, the thread says "full potential." This is a "god-like" Magneto we're talking about. Please take this into consideration.

norrin radd
i did

leonheartmm
yea, but for all we know, nate was GOD LIKE, before he even had enough control to stop his powers from harming himself, he even beat apocalypse without havin much control of his powers{hell, do you remeber when he fought cable, cable managed to infuriate him too much and that made him OVERLOAD and lose conciousness, if it wasnt for cable's help, he might have been seriously hurt , or killed, thats just how little control he had over his power} so just imagine what he would become when he DID HAVE FULL CONTROL of his powers.

manjaro
i didnt take the full potential thing into consideration. that being said i think magneto wouldnt fall so quickly, bcuz remember mags has shown to have a very limited command of telepathy, so him at a godlike level would probably mean that his telepathy could possibly elevate to a "normal" jean grey level. which could further make him impervious to psi attacks.

however, when charcters have telekinesis like nate does, they basically have psionic control over all matter on all levels, but nate being the telekinetic supreme of the MU, im sure he surpasses the conventional levels of matter manipulation. so he would certainly have the same if not a more profound level of control over magnetism that magneto does. plus he could unmake anything mags can concoct.

as much as i like to argue for magneto, even with his godlike power level, i only see him convincingly defending himself for a very long time, perhaps even landing quite a few devastating blows along the way but he would just be merely delaying the inevitable. cuz nate with FULL control of his powers is unstoppable. he could proably F around and create life. at that level he's on par with any major cosmic being, without himself being cosmic.

HarmonicFlo88
Well said manjaro.

I was trying to make it equal but still have argumentable value by giving nate full control over his power and giving magneto a full potential. magneto may have protection from psi attacks but nate's powers' are too much to fully hold back. plus those psi attacks are only telepathic, nate is tha most powerfull telekinetic too - which itself is equal or aguably superior to a full potential magneto.

However magneto has tons more experience and genius. i know for a damn fact that he wont be easy to defeat, but in tha long run it will probably go to X-Man.

So, with that said ...wut do you guys think about a regular match-up? a nate grey with medium control over his vast powers and a magneto with medium power levels?

norrin radd

Nathaniel Grey
Achebe and his puppet would destroy them both. ( That was only a joke for those who don't recognize one. )

Wynndar
hmm...Im not sure the telepathy thing is going to be such a sure thing...Reed Richards easily neutralized X-man's telepathy with a relatively low tech solution by his standards...Magneto is no Richards but he is a genius and would more than likely have a powerful telepathy defense considering guys like Chuck r always around. a full potential Nate would certainly have an advatage in the category: focused, ultr powerful, concentrated telekinetic and pyro kinetic blasts...Magneto has demonstrated some pretty nasty focused destruction in his days but not like x-man, and not as easily...this is why i alsways go with Hulk in the Hulk vs Mag discussion. Mags is the better experienced and better strategist, this will be his most valuable weapon. using his brain and strategy to take down nate...magneto might be a little nastier.

leonheartmm
hmmm, actually, im not sure that using a long ass thought of plan is fair in a fight like this, anyway, the i dont think that nate's psionic power will just let nate die {i say this because something similar happened to cable when he was shot twice but wouldnt die because of his great psionic strength, and you all are forgetting one thing, apocalypse is more powerfull than mags, both at full potential or at recent potential, and nate beat the shit out of him quiet easily, so that means that nate even without his expirience is more powerful than mags. i believe that nate takes this one.

norrin radd

leonheartmm
he killed apocalypse, but he died himself too. in the aoa

norrin radd

YourBiggestFan
wrong, he killed apoc, magneto didnt die to that. So anyways I started to read some of the old Uncanny comics since I was pretty bored, and I noticed Magneto had telepathy! well could project himself like Xavier does.. and they said "the 2nd most powerful mind" behind Xavier... So im starting to read them all over again to see when he lost his telepathy. or maybe he doesnt bother using it anymore? dunno!.

leonheartmm
um im sure that powerful mind is referring to his intelligence and not psionic power, anyway nate is far more powerful a psionic than xavier.

HarmonicFlo88
Magneto and Xavier are brothers. Their relationship of closeness since early childhood is fishy. Magneto also changed his name, its not Erik Magnus Lensherr. Some guy knew tha real name but mags killed him. I think xavier knows his real name. It would also explain why Magneto has telepathy and has a brotherly relationship with Charles.

clickclick
Nate is more powerful than Dark Phoenix? What evidence have you seen of such a thing?

Anyway, I think this is a close fight that could go either way. Just depends who could outlast who.

leonheartmm
ok ill try to explain just how powerful nate is. in reality nate is very near in potential power to the celestials and let me tell u y. when apocalypse planned to syphon off the power of the 12 mutants of incredible power, he was actually tryin to recreate the lost power source of the celestials, and he needed the twelve mutants to gain enough power to be able to partially overcome the psionic power of nate grey and to GAIN the body of nate grey. if he was actually able to get the body of nate, he would be able to use nate's powers and would hence finally be as powerful as the celestials. so u see nate is just way too powerful for mags to defeat{need i remind u that mags was also just ONE of the twelve mutants whose combined powers would combine with those of the powerful apocalypse, just to create enough power to ENTER, apocalypse in the body of x man.}

Molecule man
Nate was never meant to be close to the celestials in term of power-levels no human can reach that.

picoico
There's no reason to think that a "full potential" Magneto would be all that powerful to begin with.

DP is a cosmic being, so comparisons to her are absurd.

X-Man, although not on par with DP, certainly outclasses Mags simply on the basis of the fact that he can alter reality (and hence physical laws) to such an extent that Magneto's powers become useless...

HarmonicFlo88
Nate Grey with full control is the most powerfull mutant on marvel earth 616, second to franklin richards. in regular terms magneto is feeble in comparison.

Nates own powers being so great, created a misplacement in X-titles since writers had a ***** time pitting him against worthy rivals. that is why his story started to direct in ways of abnormal paths like those "shaman" days where regular X-title characters were rarely mentions. this is part of tha reason why he was cancelled, his last damn comic had nothing to do with any x-character yet his name is X-Man. it is really sad...but not tha point. my point is that Nate Grey's powers should never be underestimated or misjudged. tha question is could magneto with more experience and full potential take him based on those 2 offerings.

clickclick
Never heard of Franklin huh?

Im still a little unsure as to where a Full powered full control nate would rank. Ive read many of his comics but am still unsure.

Adam_PoE
A battle between Magneto and X-Man comes down to "magnetism vs. psychokenesis". While the principles of magentism are fairly well understood, there is no widely accepted theory or proposed mechanism that explains how psychokenesis occurs. Because the mechanics and limitations of psychokenesis are not known, there is no way to determine who would win.

Mainstream
Nate Grey is like a god like teenage Cable minus that Techno virus bullSh#t. He'd beat Magneto with ease.

HarmonicFlo88
In reality Adam_PoE, u are right.

But this is Marvel, we KNOW wut kind of things x-man can do. except hes not limited to only metalic objects and magnetic field related tricks.

X-man has more powers in terms of strength and also quantity. He has both 1st order Telepathy and Telekinetics. his telekinesis even allows him molecular conversion. if he wanted he could mind control 50 other mutants against magneto.

He is almost a pure psionic being that can resurrect madelyne pryor out of ****ing thin air, rip xavier out of tha astral place, etc and that was not at his max potential/control. his death saved every organism on earth. in essence he didn't save just humanity, but all of LIFE on earth. that is to show how significant and powerfull he could be if his story ever allowed him a full life such as magneto's.

Nathaniel Grey
This is X-Man easily. His powers are on such a scale that Magneto wouldn't even know how to apprach him let alone deal with the concept of actually dealing with a immensely powerful telepath/telekinetic.

Adam_PoE
HarmonicFlo88>

One theory of psychokenesis is that PK brainwaves utilize magnetic fields to manipulate material objects, etc. If this is the working mechanism behind psychokenesis than it becomes a battle of who has greater control over magnetism.

HarmonicFlo88
If that is so, then simply ...X-Man powers use some form of magnetism and that is all. it doesn't make him any less powerfull though. magneto controls magnetism itself while x-man controls psionic power which as u say uses magnetism.

X-man still demonstrates more power in his field than magneto does in magneto's field. not to mention that telepathy/telekinesis>magnetism since there is a much broader spectrum in his powers for x-man to take advantage of. in comparison magneto's powers are very very limited...his object control, his flight are all meager compared to x-mans molecular control and true flight of self and anything/anyone else he wishes. not to mention multitaskingly purging brains clean or mind searching for a single brain pattern or visiting the astral plane.

Its like tha difference between flying a plane vs driving a ferrari . both use gas as the same means of fuel but one travels thru air ignoring all sorts of liquid collections while tha car runs in to lakes, rivers, oceans, and gets flat tires. tha car is one dimensional compared to the plane.

Adam_PoE
A more accurate example of the relationship between psychokenesis and magnetism according to the theory in question is the transmission of sound waves through water. While water is the medium through which sound energy is transmitted, its temperature, salinity, and pressure affect the velocity of the transmission. In the case of Magneto, his ability to control the medium through which X-Man transmits his powers may have a similar affect.

Molecule man
X-man is dead so Magneto wins laughing

leonheartmm
nate shoves magnus's helmet psionically up magnus's ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nathaniel Grey
Magneto is undoubtedly one of the most formidable warriors known to mutant kind but he just can't compare with the super telepath & telekinetic that X-Man was. Even in Age of Apocalypse Grey was considered the end all be all when it came to pure unadulterated power and potential. How can Magneto deal with that? When X-Man arrived in the 616 Universe he sent a ripple through the minds and physical bodies of EVERY living psionic on the planet and though they didn't show Magneto ... I'm sure he felt it at the time. He bested Xavier without even a concious effort and this is the man who EASILY wiped Magneto's mind clear during Fatal Attractions. X-Man is just too much of a beast for Magneto. The best Magnus could hope for is that he physically dominates Nathan before he even knows that Magneto is around him. Otherwise it's Magnus' ass.

HarmonicFlo88
I think physically Nate Grey is far superior than mags. he is a hell of a lot younger and knows how to fight. and he would know that magneto is around him thanks to his telepathy. even if mags has some helmet or some baseball cap or even a brown bag over his head...nates telepathy is too strong to not sence thru it.

But if you, yes i'm talking to YOU, tell me that they're making a new X-Men movie where characters and stories aren't "mainstream". and you asked me wut match-up i'd like to see, this would be number 2. after X-Man VS Cable .

Nathaniel Grey
Man. There's no chance in hell that in a physical altercation that X-Man could take on Magneto. He just doesn't have the experience in hand to hand combat or the strength that Magneto has developed over the years. X-Man is a young man, granted but Magnus is a warrior in his prime and there's no way X-Man without his powers could take Magneto without his. Perhaps if it was Telekinesis vs Magnetic force, maybe. Of course Magneto is not Shang Chi but still, he's got his bases covered when it comes to physical superiority. He's at the top of his game and is hardly the frail man that Ian McKellen displayed him to be. Anyway, Magneto can't match Grey in raw power whatsoever.

Heh. Anything is possible but I doubt they'd ever make a movie concerning X-Man or Cable anytime soon. Neither character is notably popular as say Wolverine or even Captain America. They just don't score the numbers. But I'm a bit skeptical as to whether they should bring X-Man back to Mainstream 616. He's got no real purpose there, you know? We already have two reality and time placed Summers children ( Nathan & Rachel ) and a third would be redundant. You should petition to have him put in Exiles or something. At least there he'd have some possible rhyme and reason.

HarmonicFlo88
Cable can have a brother, that wont hurt anything or anyone. just one brother in 616 time-line. i dont think thats much, thats below much and reasonable.

They forced a purpose for cable with his Jesus-like goals. with that same kind of stretch, x-man could be molded a great life.

He represents many things Cable does not. it is arguable whether he's stronger than cable potentially...but even if they are actually equal, x-man has many like-able qualities of youth, free spirit, hot headed, loner, etc along with his vast power that leaves Marvel with a hole without him. not to mention he was one of tha coolest looking .

Since Marvel likes to keep characters in a limited range of age, X-man's introduction of a teen/early 20's would forever exist. All of this, is irreplaceable.

But my opinion must be shared for it to count. who would sign my petition?

Nathaniel Grey
I would.

HarmonicFlo88
So, lol...how do i make one? can i get some help?

Wynndar
Look at Peter Parker, and Johnny Storm...some teens just had to grow up.

HarmonicFlo88
Well i was on Marvel.com and saw "cup o' joe" where you can email Marvel's editor-in-chief Joe Quasada. I decided to let him know how i felt about Marvel bringing X-Man back. i wrote in tha email that a team up with his brother Cable would be nice and that millions of fans would be happy to see it.

Aside from myself being a fan, i also see on this very forum numerous mentions of X-Man or Nate Grey. i know that his resurrection would be a welcomed one for tha most part. and for those who dont care, i'm sure if it was done well..it would sure as hell be interesting since he IS one of the most powerfull mutants to ever live.

If anyone has any other ideas, please post.

leonheartmm
um nathanial grey, u say that nate cant keep his own against mas in hand to hand because of mags beeing physically stronger and beeing able to boost his strength to class 100 with his powers, but lets not forget that against holocast , nate put a psionic armour around himself and defeated holocast in hand to hand combat, and holocast is said to have no upper strength level{kinda like the hulk}, this tells me that nate could very well keep his own against magnus in hand to hand, also nate isnt exactly a hopeless fighter either he also has knowledge of basic martial arts{like magneto}, so neway, no matter what mags does, nate kicks his ass

Nathaniel Grey
Perhaps my comment wasn't as clear as it should have been. Yes, I believe that Magneto would beat the snot out of Nate in a hand to hand fight without powers. It's quite obvious that Nate has unrivaled telepathy and telekinesis but without them he's somewhat defenseless. Grey since his conception has relied on the durability and wherewithal of his unfettered power to get him out of scrapes. He's never had to build up his physical prowess which is why Magnus would whoop him. Magneto is a seasoned vet who's learned that depending solely on your powers will get you killed. He's had to make due without them before and therein lies his advantage. Not to mention the fact that Magnus is a man in his prime who I believe is way stronger and more skilled than a youth like Nate. Basic martial arts? I've got the entire X-Man series from -1, 1-75 and I've never seen him whip out any Karate, Gung Fu or Tae Kwon Do. Nate Grey has always depended on street fighting to get what he needs to get done. But yeah, I agree on one point. No matter what in terms of sheer unfettered power -- Nate Grey would dominate this battle.

HarmonicFlo88
But Magneto isn't in his prime Nathaniel..hes like in his late 50's. i know hes not as weak as Ian McKellen protrayed him to be but he is much much older than nate grey. and an 18-21 year old male is obviously superior than someone in their late 50's.

And wut kind of fighting does magneto know? I'd find it very strange to see mags defeat nate grey hand-to-hand. magneto was never portrayed as an awesome fighter like say cable was. even if nate grey uses street fighting...due to his age i doubt mags has a chance.

leonheartmm
but mags is not physically 50 years old nemore though, he was completely rejuvinated by the rays from the mutant alpha. so hes much younger now{physically}, isnt he{i got all this from his official bio btw}

HarmonicFlo88
Official bio? u mean marvel.com? link me

leonheartmm
this was around four months ago at marvel. com., havent visited since then and marvel does seem to be changing its webpage a lot, u could give it a try at marvel.com but i dont have ne link {neway, id be surprised if they havent added more stuff there, i LOVED the old marvel bios page from like two years ago, they had bios of over 400 characters or something,}

HarmonicFlo88
Yeah, Marvel gets worse and worse. back in 1996, marvel comics was way cooler than now.

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