John Connor - General Discussion

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Tevesh
Was John Conner really born in The Terminator?

Now, i'm basing this off the first 2 movies, not the third one Arnold decided to be in to get more money. And, originally there were supposed to be only two. after all, james cameron refused to direct the third one.

Anyways, the way I see it, Kyle was sent back in time to protect Sarah Conner, and in that, he became the father to John Conner, the guy who sent him back.

In Terminator 2, they destroy the company responsible for the building of Skynet, the AI that started the nuclear war against the humans, on August 29, 1997 (another reason why the third one is not gonna make much sense). If that company was destroyed, that means that skynet was never really built. If Skynet was never really built, there was never a nuclear attack on that date, meaning that there was not a war. If there was not a war, and skynet was not built, how would skynet be able to send back in time the two terminators? It wouldn't be able to because it hadn't been built.

So now, Kyle would never have been sent back in time to protect Sarah from the first terminator because there would be no first terminator to begin with.

I know it's a time paradox, but let me know what you guys think!

GordonSkywalker
You are describing a temporal paradox. There is no clear cut answer to such a thing. And Arnold convinced Cameon to do T2 as well. Cameron only envisioned the original version.

Thomas H
good work from arnie then!

GordonSkywalker
Yes he deserves the credit for them making another one!

Thomas H
t3 will suck!

GordonSkywalker
Uh...I was talking about 2 not 3. And we can never tell-T3 might become a suprise hit! cool

Thomas H
Well, I change my mind, after seeing the international trailer for T3, I think this movie will be good!

GordonSkywalker
Sure it will! Let's give it a chance! I am sure people thought the same thing back when T2 came out.

Tevesh
i'm gonna go watch it this one. all the terminators have been hella awesome so far, i hope this holds up as well

ToMacco
All I know is that that little Final Fantasy dude is cool.

Thomas H
ehehe...

Tevesh
hehe...thanks tomacco

Ushgarak
Of course, the interesting thing is that without Skynet ever happening, Connor's father is not going to die... so technically John could find him... weird as it would be to have a father who is roughly your age.

GordonSkywalker
Yes that would be a bit weird. Like I said, once you start that sort of paradox anything could happen. big grin

Captain REX
I never saw the first one, so some of this is gibberish to me.

glenn
This is the answer to Fevesh question. I know sky ney was destroyed but if you were to log onto the T3 website then you will see that the government rebuilds sky net and that Arnie is a new T800 machine.

diegocala
go see/rent the first.

SpikeSpiegel
The Temperal Paradox theory is only one theoryin time travel. So, if Kyle was sent back in time to protect Sarah Conner, he then got it on with her and thus John was born. Then in T2 Arnie went to protect john and destroyed skynet and all of the data & chips etc. needed to create the terminaters. This would therefore stop kyle from needing to go back in time and would stop john from being born which would stop arnie from needing to go back in time. This would mean that skynet would be made and would repeat the cycle. This is the temperal paradox theory.

If that wasn't too clear then an easier example would be I go back in time and tell myself not to go back in time. That would mean that I wouldn't go back in time and wouldn't tell myself to not go back in time. This would mean that i would go back in time etc etc. (maybe not so much easier after all.

Now the other theory is called the many worlds theory. In this theory if i go back in time and tell myself not to go back in time it will create another dimention in which i don't go back while keeping the dimention in which I did. A new dimention is created for every minor thing i change.

Now in the terminator world this would mean that when arnie went back to protect john he created another world where there was no skynet and no destroyed future. Likewise there could be a dimenion with no john conner. Now what they could do is to time travel to the new dimentions where skynet was destroyed or something similar. This would show why there is a skynet.

santiago79
you have a solid knowledge of temporal mechanics, but maybe you should invest in a spell checker spike.......

SpikeSpiegel
i know im going 2 fail my english exam aren't i?

xKaBuKix
I've always been confused about this. I know that kyle reese went back in time to make john connor. And it is a set future or whatever and it loops, BUT! How did john connor get born for the first timE!? He has to be born before he can be in the future to send kyle reese back in time to be his father? How was john connor first born? CAn someone please help! Thanks!

Ushgarak
Oh, standard sci-fi time loop. There was not a distinctive 'first' time, he always WAS Kyle's son, a self-fulfilling sequence of events.

Remember, if you think too hard about ANY form of time travel it ceases to make logical sense so best hang the logic of it and go with the flow for the sake of the film.

Saberist
The basis of Temporality is that all things are linear. The basis of causality is that all things are reactionary.

The prospective notion behind Terminator's use of a time portal is a combination of the two.

Thus 'once' you have a future war where a rogue computer takes over the world and 'the last of humanity objects' you will always have that timeline (and indeed as Skynet loses in either one it doesn't matter in an ultimate last-mand-standing sense for the humans, we've done worse to ourselves before).

What Skynet wants to do is prove that, once branched, time (or fate if you prefer) can be be _collapsed_ towards either a remerged or divergent third eventuality of it never having to fight John Connor at all.

They way it achieves this is to go back into a 'common past' and refuse to allow the diversity of fates events to happen.

Given that there may indeed be some 'Cosmic DNA Strand of Conscience' based on some kind of super physics that refuses to allow such a massive rewrite, the method the Computer has chosen is in fact the hardest because, by attempting to shut down or isolate one fate path it is in fact supplying the recombinant energy that drives their unavoidable fission.

When looked at from this standpoint, 'success' for Sarah Connor is equally dicey because anything she does to eliminate the threat at the second stage of event sequence evolution again stretches not only forward but BACK to the point where causality broke open multiple destinies to begin with.

The key understanding however is that Sarah has a place in ALL these futures:

1. Never having met Kyle, she lives, dies and is buried.
2. Having met Kyle, she loves, reproduces and has HIS son before killing Kyle (as we know him) by destroying Cyberdines parallel array chip.
3. Having met Kyle, she loves, reproduces, hides and raises the future of humanity.

Death of Kyle or otherwise as long as she lives ALL THREE of the known futures survive.

And the most you can do is remove Kyle which removes Kyle's son.

While again, AS LONG AS she lives 'undisturbed' so does at least the potential of Skynet's baseline parallel array chip being first-designed.

This is where you have to wonder at what kinds of aggressive-resolution AI logic is present in a military computer systems 'orientation' towards a combat decisioning that it would seek to destroy rather than moderate the effects by which it's existance is put in jeopardy at a terminus point 'upstream' from the causal-temporal layer that assures it's basic creation.

If Skynet supplied itself with the data to exist before it existed (taking it's design formats if not software 'memories' back in time) it wouldn't matter if it had been 'unplugged' at point-X.

If Skynet supplied itself with the strategic outcomes of future wars by sending back a Terminator with a 'this is how it will be' set of datapoints WITHOUT altering Sarah's keystone (three way arch) fate split status then it could kill her AND Kyle with ease at a point later in sequence where fate meant less.

If (under similar Terminator-from-past warnings) Skynet allowed itself to be portrayed as the 'innocent victim' simply executing militaristic mission orders it had no control over (the HAL-9000 argument) it could present itself to humanity as a last-best-hope chance for BOTH 'species' to survive.

Skynet because of it's limited (though presumeably burgeoning) ability to complex-articulate itself through the ONE Terminator then being reverse engineered. Humanity because such basics as food, clean air and water, reliable longterm power and non-contaminated living areas would be _utterly_ dependant on heavy mechanical assets and the initial construction of an assembly line and production tooling by which they could be created.

The (ironic) compromise likely being the destruction of the T-800 line and the 'certification as man rated' codependent-by-design construction of heavy construction/demolition type machines in removing and burying _vast_ quantities of hard rad rubble and topsoil while planting hardy grasses and fast growth trees (and seeding the oceans with low light and cold tolerante microplankton) to help provide at least a baseline by which the environment could regenerate while living in bunkers with 'canned food' that would also have to be collected by radiation proofed drones.

It is simply amazing how rapidly man, without the specialist-skill leverage of other men, descends into a barbarian state. While this is not necessarily a 'bad thing', where the environment no longer supports the simple living styles possible with limited technology, a multi-PhD Super Computer with all the knowledge of every on-line library before the Apocalypse would become more than a God for it's ability to dispense 'higher learning' enhanced survivalism.

Now, for MY question:

In any organization but particularly a military one, The First Purpose of delegated authority is NOT efficiency but _survival_. Particularly in a Top Down command structure where there is very limited redundant damage control, the absolute divorcement of hand-from-mind is a NECESSITY to avoid ultimate decapitive disruption of focussed goal achievement.

Thus, IMO, John Connor is either exceptionally STUPID or /very selfish/ in demanding that his father's contribution to his grandiose life role be based on 'one night of passion' rather than a microfiche-under-fingernail (or any other orifice or crack) by which Sarah Connor could have access to all the lotteries, sporting events, stock reports etc. for the YEARS of interval by which she could prepare a series of _impersonal_ attacks upon Cyberdine.

From a position of hire-not-fire weaponed mercs.
Or lawyers.

In this way, even if Kyle dies (and my first response would have been to hire a private charter airplane, truck or train that would take me a thousand miles away from California) without impregnating her she can continue the battle from a position of isolated but empowered (multiple if need be) attacks without causal or temporal worries as SKYNET built the time portal and SKYNET exists, at least as a prototype idea, in the past wherein all that Sarah Connor's manifest wealth could be sub-timeline shielded by the reality of their dual existance.

Or even exclusive ownership.

And anything Sarah does to destroy or alter Skynets existance can only reverse cascade back to a point at which SHE still exists and all that Skynet does to stop her is foiled 'in between'.

Again, it should not be understated that the inherent capability behind a Skynet or even Terminator type system is not evil. Indeed, it may be less corrupt and ultimately short-sighted (say mortal) than our present 'all too human' governing and capitalistic labour enforcement socialization styles.

But the difference between a strategic-AI counselor and a defense system with a deliberate doberman 'personality conflict' of intellect lies in the software by which it is taught it's function.

And thus whether you destroy the hardware or the designer if the INTENT is retained, you will only face another reiterative misuse of technology idiocy a few years down the road.

But if you rewrite the function, then you can still invest in everything from medicine to sociology to enduring power sources while providing an 'endpoint continuance through symbiotic enhancement' of BOTH artificial and biologic lifeforms.


Saberist.

CoCooN
alien

skule
All right boys i am gonna say this once, "Its a movie" no need for advance physics or temporal paradox theories!! Incidently didnt einstein himself say going back in time is impossible due to the paradox thing?

fini
I agree with Ushgarak, there is no back and forth in time travel and its resulting consequences, the future can affect the past and the past makes the future, lol its reallllllyy screwy to explain, THATS WHY TIME TRavel is STILL theory , toooooooooo many events and results to prove or disprove

Leobrn12
I know in t3 arnie tells him y he dies, but i wasent paying much attention during that time, so will someone tell me y the t-800 kills him in the future?

02blur
I think it was the part in T3 when he did almost kill him because the TX corrupted his system. I'm not sure though, thats a little bit of a "gray area." Actually, that wouldn't make any sense, because if he killed him there, then Kate reprogrammed him to go back and save them, then she would know what have happened.... CRAP! I don't know! All I know is that on July 4th, he killed him. Did they say what the date was? I sure don't remember.

Leobrn12
I'm pretty sure the date arnie says john dies was in 2037 or something like that.

JRatT12

CoCooN
John Connor was born in 1985, when in 1984 slept with man, who protect her for T-101.

jzemaitis
The year was 2032. July 4.

jzemaitis
I'm very confused after hearing from T3 that John was 13 years old when "the second terminator" came after him. If I did the math right... 1985(Johns birth via the police cruiser computer in T2) + 13 = 1998. Now thats one year after Sarah Conner died. To further confuse me... John said he lived with his mother for 3 years in Baja Mexico while she was sick with Cancer. She certainly was not sick with Cancer in T2 (when John was supposidly 13 from what he said in T3).

Is that clear as mud?

Can someone help me figure out what is going on here...

JRatT12
Aggg we have been tryin to figuer this one out of a long time. he looked like he was 13 in T2 but he must have been 10 because he was born in late 84 erly 85. if T2 takes place in 1994 this still give Sarah time to to get sick and John and her to spend 3 year in Baha Mexico until her death right after Jugment day (august 29 1997)

but in T3 all this gets f-ed up beuacue he said he was 13 in T2

CoCooN
That is all so complicated its unbolivable....John Connor was born in 1985

JRatT12
this is what makes time traving movies soo damn cool because we can have great talkes like this. I think i'm going to go watch some of those star treak the next generation I like there thores on Temperal Paradox's and things like that..

skule
heheh yeah i love the whoe temporal paradox thing, although to be honest, the time thing doesnt really come into much play with in the terminator story itself does it, just us fans that wanna know more and more.

chica16
the terminator movies are ones you can drive yourself insane trying to over analyze

skule
yeah thats true.

dulobast25
Fraankly, i think there is a first time, otherwise the concept of time has no meaning. I think that human nature as it is now, gave rise to the machines. Not destiny the first time around, but cause and effect. and in that imeline john connor was born to someone likely before the war. Let's face it, cyberdiyne exisited before the skynet or terminator project.. before the chips..etc. Supposedly that was the factory sarah and kyle entered @ the end of t1. Well that makes sense thet it was located in LA because the story and war start in LA. Ok, we all know that Sarah was being modest when she said if John never sent reese, he could never be.. this is b.s. She is a good looking girls with transportation, and a job in L.A. with a roomate with a boyufriend and dating a giy with a porsche.. ang likely to dat other guys with sports cars. More likely than not, she would have met man or husband and had a child. As for the name, In 84, she hadn'e given it thought yet. John seemed surprsising for that reason, but she seemed to take to the name. If she didn't like the name, it woul dbe likely to had been different. The mother typically chooses the names. Anyway in the initial timeline i think she gets married and has a son and human beings start experimenting with Artificical intellegence just like matrix. approx 35 or 4o years from 84 which vaugely is 2024 or 2029 which is the date shown in the beginning althiugh we jsut see hks but nothing really happening when the time is shown. But it is not destiny..ai develops and in a period of time, skynet is developed, which kickstarted the war. In the war, many people 3 billion i think die. one of which is sarahs' lovers and the father of hers son. It is unclear if sarah dies before the war.. Legend has it that she went in hiding before the war. Father dies, maybe sarah does, in L.A. survisvors surface and of course kyle reeses' parents who are survivors have a chld, kyle who is born into poverty and becomes a soldier. Among the survivors @ the brink of extinction, sarah's gutsy offspring decides to take some action and thus begins a legend. Sarah, in any event has a child and a normal life with a boyfriend or husband, maybe starting a family. We dont' know if it is the 2nd or 3rd go around in t1, but we do know that skynet was unaware of the csm-101 failure and thus had to been the first attempt @ sendinf that particular termnator to that time to kill the mother of the resistance leader. If we assume it is the first time around? Sarah, Late for work and with a no show date takes a leave of absence for personal where she is to meet a guy who is johns' father. The picture of sarah in the future is sarah vacationing in mexico. John grows up nomal, until the war hits..and he is a survivor. In the future, he learns that skynet after loosing the war sent a cyborg back to kill sarah, and he decides to send not only one of his bset soldiers, but upon seeing her photo, falls in love with sarah, the mother of the legend, john connor. She is kyles young age and is sad in the photo, cause she has no one in her life and is ready to settle down. Kyle in love and well qualified and never having a relationship and never seeing a woman other than another soldier who is petite, somewhat happy go lucky and feminine and pretty, volunteers to go and upon kyles' departure @ the skynet facility, john connors destroys 2 the time diplacement equipment bays that the csm 101 and kyle used.. unaware of what he will find througout the rest of the cyberdine complex. Kyle goes in and joins in on the events that the csm-101 has disturbred...killing other sarah connors which convinces her to leave the pizza joint and upon seeing kyle tyies to loose him in the club. The rest is history. In the future, within moments, the war has been moved forward, thus resulting in a date of august 29 1997 and 2029 for the span of the war....Skynet somewhat aware @ the failure of csm101 being more advanced dut to the jumpstart provideb by the cpu from the first termiantor calculate to use the experiemental mimetic polyalloy under design @ the time just before the fall of skynet. With not time for full testing, skynet sends the prototype instead to kill the target itself, in a hope to imcrase the probablility of sucess.. with the target itself and a more deadly assassin. Reese aware that his father cannot stop the t-1000 discovers the time displacement bays @ the fallen skynet installation. John requests a thorough search of the facility for weapons and info to stop the t1000 .. finds some info downloaded from the computer and his team comes across the csm-101 assembly line. The units produce on the particluar conveyor are or the 101 sort with the arnold complexion and apperaance package. Ther are only 3 complete unit 2 programmed and 2 ready to be programmed:none activated. One is sent back downlooaed in it's port with somw info on the t-1000 and it's mission objectives. Kyle reese is told he must stay behind to help destory the remaining evidence of the skynet AI andAI reserech hoping the techlonlogy whould never be redeveloped, ever.
The t-1000 fails and during the process, judgement dayhad been delayed due to the efforts of john connor the t-101, miles dyson, and sarah. Skynet givnen more time, war moved later back becomes aware from the events of 1991 that john and t-800 became allies and uses this fact to assasinate john connor in the present fooling john connor to trust a t800 with the same apperance and familiar mannerisams as the one that john befriended at age 10. Meanwhile, roduced, but rather anothe experimental terminaor, designed to prevent interferance by other re programmed terminators. Skynet vaugely familiar with the statictially poor operation sucess percentage, the t-1000 is never mass produced, but better a unit that had the attributes of both the more sucessful unit t-800 and the complete shape shifting abilities of the t-1000..with a plasma cannon included...the tx. With John connor eliminated, brewster programs another of the completed terminators in the fallen skynet facility and sends it back to ensure johns survival as long as it is necessary to ensure john is alive just long enought to start and lead the resistance to the war. The rest is history! bring on t4!

skule
paragraphs people, use them for they are thre for a reason!! laughing

alic88
i think nick stahl did a good job, but i sure do miss eddie furlong. it really would've been cool if he were in t3 as john conner( nick stahl looks nothing like furlong) dont ya guyz agree with me that nick did a good job? i mean his acting wasn't bad. every time the terminator comes up with new characters and i think this guy has a future in hollywood

CoCooN
Look every think its so simple...Edward furlong had a great job in T2, he was the best 10yo actor ever. Nick Stahl he is playing in this movie just for money. OK - i dont say he is not good in doing that!

But the problem is all terminator fans waching T1 and T2 know the actors crew...and in T3 all changed. Arnie is the only one who act in all movies. And where is Edie, Linda, Robert a guy from Peskadero hospital, Judgment day, horror, Cyberdyne, Dyson's son?!

Edward Furlong is just one of them....

02blur
I don't think Nick was in it for the money. Do you think they picked him because he is a rotten actor? Of course not. He did a great job. I always have high respect for new actors and I always look for the good qualities in them, unlike some people who just cannot help themselves but say horrible things about them.

alic88
from what i saw i think NICK STAHL IS A GREAT ACTOR. i mean it is a big deal being the leader of the HUMAN RESISTance in terminator! that is something very big for some1 no 1 noz

CoCooN
But if you change all actors crew, its not that much realistic...you are not watching destiny of the same person...like we did in T1 and T2...

CoCooN
Would you go watching Terminator if Arnie would not act in it?

dulobast25
this isn't an english course

dulobast25
Yeah, I agree that whoever is in here who hasn't seen t1 needs to see it.. you are missing out. Frankly the more i see t2 the better t1 was.. and the more i see t1 the bettert t1 is. And when i saw t3 i lked t1 and t3 better. Anyways, i think there is one timeline that is jumped back an forth along and when things chage earlier in the line, it make chages later in the line, BUT for instance things that have been remove from exitance that don't , have not been overted. We know this becasue if kyle is john's father, kyle would not be sent back and john would have disappeared and sarah would be warped to someplce else and the factory would be repaired and all t1 and t2 results would be undone. This clealy does not happen thus we know skynet still gets built. You see john connor and the human victory go hand in hand. If the humans lost the war, there would be non neeed to wipe out john connor, thus no reese not sex no john, maybe no victory. The questions really are could not have someone else stepped up to lead the resisitCNE IF THERE WERE NO JOHN CONNER also why not send back 3 terminators like 20 years back when john conner organized the resitance and kill him. And if t-101 failed in t1, why not send one further back in time when sarah was a child and kill her rather than later, when they are aware that a war is coming .

alic88
that would b interesting, good question. but if they make t4 there is no need for arnie unless he will KILL JOHN CONNER on july4,2032

CoCooN
Because if they send it when she was a child, T-101 would easily killed her and we wouldnt see T2 and T3. That things makes the movie. But cunfusing is that, how can be John Connor(22), leader of the human resistance if he havent been in army yet.

alic88
IT IS A MOVIE, END OF STORY. JOHN CONNER'S AGE IS ALL SCREWED UP, THEY GOT IT WRONG!

skule
nick stahl seems decent however i did not see him as john conner of the future, he look to short for be one (dont know why i feel that) Perhaps subconciously i still remeber the john conner actor of the first terminator,his look symbolized a hardned smart warrior, stahl reminded me of kevin spacey dont ask me why, in the begning of T3 as they showed a "old" nick stahl as john conner, it ruined it for me, from then on i didnt belive he could be john conner.
Decent actor definatly, just dont know who casted him and why him, but anyways as always thats just my opnion big grin

CoCooN
Yeah...I guess you're right!

alic88
lol!

skule
at the rate its going it should be!!! laughing out loud

alic88
john conner rules!

CoCooN
OK...John Connor's fans. Tell me: Why did John Connor send back in time Reese and T-101 to protect him if he survived that years (1985 - 1994) with no problems?...If he know that the Skynet send back terminator to kill him, how did he know the time and Hour?!

alic88
I DIDN'T MAKE TERMINATOR, JUST A FAN messed

JRatT12

dulobast25
this isn't an english course

dulobast25
already answered it.. and skule.. i agree the future scene with john connor ruined it for me too, althught he looks nothing like kyle reese john kid or jihn adukt from the first films or doesn't even have sarahs eyes. But anyway msotow made many chioces that ended up bieing wrong. Any nick stahl to me i just not that great of an actor in this case. I think casting (other thann arine, tx and dr silberman sucked) as did the script. Action was excellent.

dulobast25
this is a message post for opinions... in the fall of society, i think a militia was created.. instituions of the army no longer existed.. he stepped up and others followed, thus, a leader

CoCooN
But he's so scary when he think about judgment day....and when T-101 appear in front of his eyes...

CoCooN
He should be like Reese....

JTp8ntballer12
john has to send 2 termnators back before hand though, so someone/thing must get that head (as we saw at the end of T3) and reprogram it and send it to kill John.

LiQuiD
the terminator wasnt sent with the memories of the one from t2... it was chosen because of John's memories of this terminator. They would make him an easier target.

dulobast25
t3 arnie could not have learned the visor thing because that occured in the history of this timeline not another, john has not grown old yet nor is aware of the events of t2 all he knows in the future that skynet made atttempts and they failed. I still don't know how skynet could get memeories from a melted terminator

skule
dudes the visor thing was obviously mostow just blindly putting that in as a refrence or connection to T2 but not realising how to explain it properly. I saw an interview of Mostow talking about T3, his own words were "i was sitting in the theathre watchint T1 and T2 never thinking i would someday direct T3 as a fan telling the story my way or words to that effect"

He also said how he wondered ppl would critic the movie etc but said in the end he has to do his way as a fan who can tell the story etc etc.

A true fan would have researched all the nitty gritty details, not once did John ever mention any refrence to the T1000 even when arnie is explaing the TX is liquid over a skeletal sctructure etc, the only connection John says to t2 is dont u remeber ..hastalavista etc do i have to teach u everything again.

I wonder where skynet would get the design for the terminators though, could it be the half damaged head from T3?
How does skynet begning production, it maybe software but its not easy geting an assembly line with out human counterparts, at that itme period there isnt a fully automated factory anywhere bringing in materials etc i would think. Unless the explain how the military had one already.

dulobast25
I think that skynet takes over computer opertated automated factorys and builds some of the parts and gets some humans to surrender for the purpose of 1

help them assemeble the infiltrators and hks for those items than cannot be produced

and 2 those same folk who were kept alive to help load bodies.. smewhere the machince convince humans to help them..likely in exchange for sparing thier life..(until a later terminaton date) i think t4 is so close to the beginning of the war and so close to t3 that there will be no more time travel..we may see kyle and 101 leaving, but we stay in the (present) future, which is where we alsways were..it's not liklely to send someone back in time for like 6 months.... I guess we will see. I think skynet will end up taking over companies than have parts and ability to produce militayr machinery, ammunition, lasers, alloys and robotics.. skynet then has contol over facilites which later become guarded by like the t-one million and the like....to protect the assembly lines of the csm 101's and t600s'

dulobast25
I agree. mostow should have been familiar with the detail like fans like we are and left the detailed part in and changed what was necessary or changed the window dressing only..he got rid of things that should have remained.. the music and action sequence in the film

alic88
well MOSTOW did a very risky job by directing t3

JRatT12

alic88
absolutely i agree. but still mostow did a good enough job

ToMacco
Jrat, I totally agree. The worst part of T3 was the lack of the Terminator themes.

dulobast25
theme and soundrack and placment of action was lacking..already listened to soundtrack..have 1 and 2 but won't buy 3 (soory ,i'm comparing again) it just lacked the intensity of t1..which is whay they just update t1 music and finessedit a little for t2 and brought back the (you are in deep crap) predatorial music from t1 when a terminaotr was aorund..in t2 they took it form t1 and again fineesed it and added a new type for the t-1000, vey good decidions..the were not her in t3 you see cameron realizes that both action and music are story telling devices and propely placed allows unesseary line to be trimmed out and keeps the plot focused.....my ears were looking for than music the whole movie and it never matched what my eyes saw....except for the beginning of the movie....(like a music video where the video is like unrelated at all to the song) these are the things that t3 lacked and shiuld have had

dulobast25
t1 and t2 rule i hpe t4 will be even better than t1 and t2

alic88
STOP COMPARING T3 WITH T2 AND T1

alic88
IF ARNOLD ISN'T IN IT that will really effect the worldwide sales of t4. most of people in asia like action heroes and arnie is one of their favourite along with stallone E.T.C

dulobast25
Sorry, this is a forum and I will continue to voice opinion

dulobast25
If there is no arnie, they need michael beihn , linda hamilton, and the (adult) john conner from t2. and I hope they use his likness or his stund double from a distance..but none of these would be likely to happen

fini
dulobast U NEED SOME COFFEE MAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no actually lay off the damn java

alic88
lol

CoCooN
:-)))))))))))

dulobast25
are you fini..yet? i'm just stating my detailed opinion... just because you are not detailed and becasue i choose to leave typos and indentations and the like in my post..c'mon lay off.

Catastrofic Luv
i'm so retarded... i havent seen this movie yet, but the "how does john die" like caught my attention. but few... good 2 see nobody rilly knows.. haha.

alic88
well go c the damn movie. it is a must c movie. one of the best of the summer. not as good as t2 but right behind it

dulobast25
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10845&item=3621349592

this isnt spam, please help

carnage713
http://www.t3rom.netfirms.com/images/nickold.jpg



i think this looks absolutly terriable. look at the blonde hair. it looks like shi*. i hope he doesnt look like this in t4

carnage713
http://www.t3rom.netfirms.com/main_page.htm

just type this in on ur adress bar

alic88
u've seen this for the first time? ya that does look stupid 2me but now i think john will alter the timeline ONCE AGAIN now that he knows what 2 expect

carnage713
ya he looks like shit. GET THE CONNER FROM T2 BACK.

vvvrulz
Holy crap he looks dumb. Yeah man, bring on Ed Furlong from T2. He'd replace that T3 cissy and the freakish future John Connor anyday.

alic88
ah well that would b 2 confusing. just do t4, nick is signed so no changing in john

carnage713
unfortunatly thats true. but please the need to change the future j.c's image

alic88
they will. nick said that he had 2 b on makeup for 10 hours for that and virtually couldnt move while filming the future scene

vvvrulz
Well he just needs to toughen up a little, not come across as a push over like he did in T3, to me that was no potential resistance leader.

carnage713
plus. hes a small dude how tall 5'10, 5'11?

vvvrulz
Hell im taller than that.

carnage713
ya i always pictured jon as a big tall powerfull leader not a small wimpy dude

alic88
hey c'mon carnage give nick a chance. afterall i think he played john well

carnage713
he did play jon well, sorta but sum 1 cud have done better in my opinion. plus that pic of him in the future sucked. he cant look like that in the restn of the term films

vvvrulz
Yeah agreed.

alic88
he wont i just know it

RossBond
Remember this shot is from a DREAM.

Also remember that in the real future war they won't be eating nice meals everyday. So JOhn most likely won't be all big and buff...but hardy...they'll be eating other creatures for their sustanance.

This picture is actualy freakily realistic.

skydragons79
Napoleon was 5'6, so i don't think height has much bearing on ones skill as a leader, and a warrior.

skydragons79
He really had no reason to be tough because he believed there would be no war,in fact in a lot of cases warriors are forged on the battlefield while being not so tough before sgt york for example.

carnage713
ya but were all comparin him to the future jon conner in t2 and kyle reese. and he just doesnt come across or have the look as they did

alic88
ya the future john connor of t2 was AWESOME. t3 one looked like shi!. but i m sure this will change since john knowz what 2 expect

carnage713
i saw another movie w/ nick in it and it kinda changed my prospective on him. hes a good actor

vvvrulz
Which movie is this?

carnage713
bully

alic88
bully?what year

carnage713
this year. its a cinimax movie. its really great, except they pretty much show nick nude in it. eeew

SlickRick69
I think Nick Stahl did alright with the role, and that the 'future John' all messed up as he was, WAS after all just John having a dream, and he thought of himself as all [email protected]$*ed up in the head, so that's why he looked so bad... plus maybe the make-up people went a little crazy too!

any way, like has been said, it was a dream, and even if it was a premonition of some sort, now that John knows the future can be altered some simply by the fact of being aware of some future possibility, yeah, he can avoid getting so messed up...

alic88
lol

SlickRick69
yeah

carnage713
i jus hope he doesnt look like that

SlickRick69
he wont really look like that in the future , that was just a dream... they can make him look any way different now, since the time-lines change all the time... he will probably look more like the original Future John Connor, that rugged scarred dude, rather than just Nick Stahl in Future John make-up...

SlickRick69
John was born in 1985... he and his mom ran around Mexico and souther CA between T1 and T2, mostly hanging out around the Baja Peninsula... in 1994 Sarah heard something on the news about Cyberdine research, space technology, advanced metals, super-computer processors, and saw something (the missing arm from the T-101 in T1) so she and John headed back to the LA area, where Cyberdine Research lab was, to investigate... Sarah and her mercenary pals plotted to blow up the building, but Sarah got busted and sent to Pescadero Rehab Lockdown Facility, John got put into the foster care system and spent a few years with various familes, until late 1996, early 1997, when he was with Todd and Janell Voight. He was a rebellious punk, and snuck out all the time, including one night to party at Mike Cripkey's house, with the legendary make-out room in the basement. John kissed Katherine Brewster there, then the party ended and John got grounded... he stayed home the next day, working on his mini-bike with his buddy, but when Todd and Janelle yelled at him to clean his room, that was too much, so John and his buddy took off for the Galleria on his bike... then the rest of T2 happened... that was 1997... John was 12 or 13... (the only error that cant be explained is why the police car computer states John's age as 10 in T2...) after Cyberdine was destroyed, Sarah still wasnt convinced that it was all over, and her fears were all but confirmed when the story was almost completely covered up and glossed over on the nightly news; a building was blown up in LA!!! and the story only got 15 seconds between weather and sports!! This was because Cyberdine was secretly a governement-run front, and the g-men put the screws to the media to keep details quiet, so they could continue their work... Sarah gets her merc buddies to fabricate some medical reports that claim she got cancer in 1994, and she and John disappear from the grid...

T3 happens 10 years later, or 2007, John is 23 or so... Cyberdine is renamed. John knows his mom isn't really dead, and also now knows that the future can be altered some without 'destroying the world' in a paradox, so he figures it's best that he and his mom stay dead as long as possible, stay off the grid... then T3 happens, people die and John is rediscovered as a threat... any way, that explains it!

tada!

carnage713
ya model the future jon after the t2 conner

carnage713
huh ill go insane over this question

alic88
my theory is that when they blew up cyberdyne every thing got pushed 3 yearz. the humanz win in 2032 instead of 2029. john is 13 instead of 10

SlickRick69
I dont get part of your theory alic... if the timeline doesnt change until after John, Sarah, Dyson and T-800 blow up Cyberdine, then how does John magically become 13 from 10? He would have to have been 13 before too... Cyberdine blowing up doesnt alter the current timeline, magically aging John 3 years.

Instead of thinking: John was born in1985, T2 was released in 1994, that must mean John was 10-11, you have to think: John was born in 1985, he looked around 12 or 13 in T2 (even though the stupid police car computer stated AGE:10 when it should have simply listed a BIRTHDATE, not an exact age, which was wrong any way!!)

So 1985 +12=1997, T2 took place in 1997, T3 10 years later, 2007...
T-850 in T3 says he came back 25 years, so from 2032, which fits, so part of 'your theory' about the date change +3 years actually fits. WOW! good job retard! LOL (please no more nonsense about the length of my posts... read slow, sound it out, try hooked on phonics... you can do it!)

carnage713
ya jus becuz cyberdine was destroyed doesnt mean conner magically become 13

alic88
hey dont call me retard. i m just n other fan so what if u look into things more carefully. it was just my theory nothing more than that IDIOT. u r right
but really, that thing in the computer in t2 was messed up. if v can forget bout that, i think ur explanation makes good sense

SlickRick69
WOW!! you made it thru a 'long post' to get to the insult!! YAY!! Everyone rejoice! alic CAN read!!! YAY!!!!

smile

And I know my idea is GENIUS!!

Orioles12_caz
ermmm, sarah connor could have had cancer during T2. just because you have cancer doesnt make you immobile or anything......

Evanescence
She may not have known it.

John was born Feb 28 1985, but that don't help much.

mook
the timeline for johns age has never made sense.

glenn
He should have been 10 during T2 because they have 3 years before skynet takes over. In T3 he must be 20, but on the back of the DVD case, it says he is 22 which would take T2 to 1996 in which he would have 12 not 10. This means T3 is in 2006.

alic88
but on the disc 2 of the t3 dvd it shows the timeline as 2003. so face it, john connor's age is messed up

MovieKiller
Yeah the timeline is messed up, but you can actually create one for yourselves like I did. geek

T1- Took place on 1984. ===== IN BETWEEN T1 & T2- John was born on early 1985. ===== T2- Took place on 1994 thus giving exact time (3 years) for Judgment to occur. John's age at this point is around, but not exactly, 10. ===== IN BETWEEN T2 & T3- Sarah gets leukemia just after T2 took place. She lived for three years just to see August 1997 come and go by. She dies right after August giving that "Everyday after this is a gift. John we made, we are free" speech. John is 13 years old by this time. ===== T3- 10 years had passed since Judgment Day was set to occur. John is around, but not exactly, 23 years old now. It is the late 2007. the T-X comes and kills most of John's future liutenants (sp). She tries to kill John but she gets 'Terminated' by the upgraded T-800, or T-850. Judgment Day is unevitable. The bombs fall and 3 Billion people die. ===== AFTER T3- The war with the machines was supposedly to end in 2029. The destruction of Cyberdine in T2 change the date to 2032. (I don't think this really helps in the timeline because we are talking about John's age in T3 mainly)

Well, this is the way I did my timeline. I understand it pretty well and I don't get confused. confused

I think the real problem wasn't on the police machine in T2 saying that he was 10, but instead in T3 when John stated that he was 13 when the T-1000 tried to kill him. That is what messed up the timeline. About the DVD... well just ignore it or it will make your head swell about thinking too much about it big grin. They did it wrong!!! Not even the guys working on T3 new the timeline. stick out tongue

I hope you understood my timeline and if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. wink

Be seeing you all around. smokin' cool

glenn
Totally messed up.

Ahnold
Indeed. I have myself brought this issue up in another thread - it's a head scratcher, no doubt...

glenn
It's camerons fault. He should have read the script again to double check if everything was OK.

Ahnold
Don't you mean Jonathan Mostow? HE directed T3...

But it seems like the screenwriter's fault to me...

glenn
Yeah i know that, All i'm saying is that Cameron got it wrong in T2, and so Mostow had to continue his age.

Ahnold
How did Cameron get it wrong? T2 was set in 1994, which would make John around 10 {alright give or take a year} - which was on the T-1000's police read out. Mostow really messed it up - saying John Connor was 13 in T2...

glenn
Yes we know that one

Ahnold
I know that you know - but someone before said that it was Cameron's fault that the timeline is messed up...

glenn
That someone is me embarrasment who said it was camerons fault. But i didn't say the timeline was messed up.

Ahnold
Sorry - I didn't mean it like that.

glenn
I know. Just telling the truth

Ahnold
I like the new sig, btw...

glenn
Thanks. Took ages.

Magch
John Connor WAS 10 in T2 but Mostow didn't read the script of T2 to well when he maked the third movie and thought he was 13, END OF STORY!

Ahnold
Indeed.

glenn
We have already discussed that

Ahnold
Sigh... I wish I was the mod of this forum so that I could close "completed" threads such as this... I'm still interested Raz, btw!

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