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I'll wait for answers, but for me, it is clearly more than simple jewels who have captured the light of the trees of Valinor.

For me they represent a light a little too light for Middle-earth or just power in the wrong hands
I don't like allegories too much as they always contradict each other and are still monotypes ... but the silmarils are imo just the perfect example for Power, Might... in the beginning it's used to serve the people, in a constructive, positive way, and everything works well, until a single person gets the power and wants to use it for their own good &c, until in the end it just makes everyone who has/had anything to do with it unhappy even for example for the sons of Feanor whom they rightfully belonged to, but they lost their right on it by claiming it back by force

Yeah, like George Bush.

SHINIES

The shiniiiiiies
My shinies

That reminds me of this toilet story in Tig1 laughing




why does 'shinies' sound like a french saying 'chinese'

LOL that was the first night i came to tig and i helped save the day

I must disaggree with you, exabyte. The Silmarils were useless. Feanor made those jewels only by greed, to have the light of the trees for himself. If you had read the book, and I'm sure you did, you'd discover that. Those jewels only brought trouble. Nobody ever gain anything with them. They were only SHINIES!!! They represent greed, and how greed can destroy a world.

Oohhhhhhh Mandos is going to get it

They apparently burn those of evil intent that handled them.
A Silmaril was able to pierce the shadows and enchantments that surrounded Valinor and allow Earendil to come thither. Second, (and I'm sorry I can't provide a reference for this at the moment) it is said that the Elves at the Mouths of Sirion prospered for a time due to the Silmaril.
The Silmarils are so important because they contain the last bit of light from the Two Trees. And they essentially had the same powers that the light of the trees had; to pierce shadow and cause growth, beauty, and prosperity.
Didn't the the Chapter "Of Beren and Luthien" state that when Mablung placed the Silmaril on Beren's hand, he came out of the swoon he was in after bearing the full blunt of Carcharoth's attack on Thingol? Perhaps the Silmaril did have some healing properties. Otherwise Beren would have died.


As for the Silmarils causing more harm then good, well it wasn't the jewels themselves that caused grief; it was the envy and want of them.

The reason that the Silmarils caused so much sorrow and grief was because of the Oath that Feanor and his son's took. That oath and the curse of Mandos doomed them to throw away all in the pursuit of the Silmaril.

It wasn't the Silmaril's fault. Everything happened because of the characters' actions.

*applauds*

droolio

Nicely said Exa.

drooliodroolio

LMAO!

-First, I never said the Silmarils were evil. They represent purity and that's why no evil can touch it. But everyone wants those pure things to themselves; GREED.
-Second, if there were no Silmarils, there would not be any Noldor on Arda. That means no Sirion elves and no Earendil. What he did was amazing because of the Silmarils (I am not saying that it was bad) but the war was brought by the Silmarils(Melkor stole them; GREED). The Silamrils helped Earendil, but without the Silmarils comming to Arda and the following of the Noldor, there wouldn't be an Earendil because there would be no war of the jewels.
-Third, it is true the elves at the Sirion prospered...for a time. Read the book to see what happened to them after. Because of the Silmarils.
-Fourth,(it's useless but I'm putting it there for the greed idea) the story of the death of Elwe killed by the dwarfes of Nargothrond was because they both wanted to keep the Silmarils; GREED. It is the principle reason why, even in LotR, elves and dwarfes don't like eachother.
-Fifth: It was true that, at one time, the Silmarils were important. But now, there's one in the sky, in the sea and in the ground. NOW, they are useless and the war over the jewels has brought more pain that happiness. Yes, they had the lights of the trees of the Valar inside but, if we look at it, it didn't do much difference (maybe except for Earendil who still navigates in the sky with one). No, I'm sorry, at the end, they were not very important, except for Mahedros and Maglor who had a serment to fullfill.
-As for the Silmarils causing more harm then good, well it wasn't the jewels themselves that caused grief; it was the envy and want of them.(GREED) You said it!

Look at it this way. Beleriand was better of with the Silmarils after all.
Yes it's the character's actions that changed things. But do you suppose, like the ring controls the ringbearer with its ideas of power, that the Silmarils did the same with its ideas of beauty?

In your reply, you said alot of things I didn't mention that were, and I'm not insulting you, out of the subject. I only said the Silmarils brought...

greed and that at the end, it was useless. And to that I hold. I'm mot saying that the Silmarils were bad, but that they bring not evil, but close to it.

I was talking to shadowy blue

droolio
You go there, boyfriend!

very unlike the ring...which does cause people to do bad things...which might stir another topic...

You spent a lot of time on that, I perceive.

But those things that you mentioned still don't change the idea that...it was the characters' thoughts and actions that drove them to be greedy and do all those terrible things that they did. All the events that you posted about pointed out that it was the characters' dealings that made things end up the way they did.

I'll say it one more time: It's not the Silmarils' fault.

People are responsible with their own actions. Greed and evil things are everywhere, they're in everything, but it depends on the person on how to retort to them. Putting all the blame in three little shinies is erroneus, IMO.

Exa and I have already emphasized that a lot of times already.


Yes, I said it. It's the envy and want of them. Yes, it was greed. But it was the PEOPLE's greed. It came from their own thoughts, their own judgments. You can't blame the Silmarils for how the people wanted to use them.

The Silmarils and The One Ring are two very different things both in their outcome and in the well-meaning individuals who miscalculated their actions as well as those who were corrupted. In the beginning, the Silmarils were created out of light and goodness. Even after all the tragedy, one Silmaril was set upon Earendil's mast so the people of Arda could see it sailing through the sky. It would still light their way, though from very far away. And a tiny splinter of that light actually became the phial of Galadriel which certainly had something to do with the defeat of Sauron. (and this goes against your sentiment that the Silmarils are useless NOW. No, they're not, because one of them had a radical part in the defeat of evil during the War of the Ring.)

All this is in sharp contrast to the Master Ring which was hurled into the Cracks of Doom to be utterly destroyed. This is because it was, through and through, a thing of evil.

In some ways, the tale of the Silmarils was more tragic because these jewels started out as a thing of light and goodness. In my mind, the tale of Beleriand was the story of how the light became shattered and broken into many fragments. With the central light gone, each of us must cling to the little slivers that are left. Frodo actually became himself like the phial of Galadriel--a little sliver of light in a world of darkness.

So, while there are similarites between these objects, the differences are even more striking: one was an object of goodness that became perverted and shattered, while the other was evil from its first creation.


No, they were not out of the subject. They were actually relevant. You were saying that the Silmarils were useless, only brought trouble, and didn't do anything for anyone. I just merely countered your post by giving specific examples of their uses in context of the book. You said they were useless, and I said otherwise. Does that make me out of the subject? No.

Oh well, now that it comes down to it, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, just so long as they don't push it on others. Just remember that my opinions are my own and that you don't have to agree with me, although it would be nice. droolio

Good post s-b
The obsession and greed for the jewels rose in the heart of the beholder rather than being generated by the object itself.

^brilliant.

droolio

Thanks.

I don't have time to write anything now (school) but don't worry... I'LL BACKFIRE!!!!!!!!! MUAHAHAHAHA! I'll proove to you that I'm right. IS THERE ANY PEOPLE HERE HAT THINKS MY WAY ABOUT THOSE DAMNED JEWELS?

I used the word DAMNED not as an insult, but because at the very first moment Feanor created them, it was their destiny. Well, not at the beginning but you know what I mean.

No, you're not.

No one is right or wrong in this matter, it's all a matter of perspective.

Everyone's post in this thread are all opinions, so just sit down, be quiet, and accept the fact that not everyone will agree with you.

You're right. I didn't open much for other suggestions. I'm sorry.
But the fact is that, if its the beholder of the jewels that gets his heart corrupted by them, it doesn't changed the fact that it brought chaos to Beleriand.

This should be good.

*pops popcorn*

Oh yeah

That's more I like it.

Finally, we understand each other.


*LOL..Smodden, sorry to disappoint*

aww..no fight?

no mile long rant???

erm...ok.

Am I forgiven?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FIGHTTTTTTTTTTT

Right, but I enjoyed the conversation I had with you. We can do it again anytime you want. Don't worry, next time I'll... just sit down, be quiet, and accept the fact that not everyone will agree with me.
lol
Your friendly adversary, Mandos.

Right be more open-minded that's what my philosophy teacher tells me...
Right thanks for the advice (and I'm not joking when I say it, and it's hard to believe when we are communicating by Internet. Also, I just wanted to say that when I said If you have read the book blablabla, it sounds obmoxious on the internet but I didn't mean it that way. Haaaaaaaa problems with the chatting I got...