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I was looking through my local paper this morning and there was an article on the new 'Band Aid' single, not only are Busted partaking in it (thats a laugh) but one of 'em was wearing a Tool t-shirt. I'm not a Tool fan in the slightest but it made me laugh.

Busted ( the british boy band, right) they have a single called "Band-Aide"

I just saw on MTV2 their "why I go to school" video (or whatever it is called) -- anways it made me gag!

You got it in one, i've seen it all boy bands trying to hang (even duet) with rock groups, tv presenters wearing rock band tops. Where will this madness end.

anyways Busted looks gay

How ironic. A tool wearing a Tool shirt.

Given the situation that guy is in, I don't let it bother me that he listens to Tool coz he blatantly doesn't understand them.

It's so funny, you have Thom Yorke, Jonny Greenwood, The Darkness and Paul McCartney then out of nowhere Dizzee Rascal comes in and just sound so out of place and crap that it actually removes the focus off the Busted guy wearing a Tool shirt.

-AC

It doesn't bother me what he wears, just wanted to see all the Tool fans get 'up in arms', lol.

Why would we be up in arms? I feel safe in the knowledge that music is accessible to anyone, just not anyone can get it. He can listen to Tool all he wants but I doubt he appreciates them as much as me and other Tool fans like myself.

-AC

Yes but you made the comment that he was a tool on the basis of him being in a boy band, for all you know he could be their biggest fan. Indeed not everyone gets their music but in all fairness not everyone gets Eminems music, or Oasis or whatever. Different music appeals to different people just 'cos you listein to Tool means nothing.

"Yes but you made the comment that he was a tool on the basis of him being in a boy band, for all you know he could get the music. Indeed not everyone gets their music but in all fairness not everyone gets Eminems music, or Oasis or whatever. Different music appeals to different people just 'cos you listein to Tool means nothing."

I don't believe he does on the basis that someone with that kinda of perception wouldn't be in Busted anyway. He is a tool being used by his record company, as are the rest of the band. Even if he did get some of the music, it wouldn't bother me because at the end of it all I know how big a fan I am of Tool and they know who their real fans are.

-AC

And what 'cos someone doesn't like Tool. Thry are automatically deemed of poor music taste or 'don't get it', newsflash maybe its because that person doesn't like the music simple as that.

If someone doesn't like Tool, great. You seem to have drawn your own conclusions as to what my views are.

I don't want everyone to like Tool for the simple reasons:

A) They're either too lazy to go out and find their own music instead of having it spoon fed to them. So why do they DESERVE to have something as great as a Tool album fed to them? Answer: They don't.

B) If everyone is gonna like Tool and just appreciate them on what's right infront of them and not delve any deeper, which most would do, then again, they should just stick to music being made for the docile masses.

But like you said in the other thread, to you "it's only music". Which leads me to believe you have a strange perception of how valuable music is or our appreciation of it are worlds apart.

-AC

And if we are drawing to conclusions, then you sir are an elitist who i hold little or no respect for. And if you ACTUALLY knew me, then you'd see what type of music i like but instead you'd rather go on stupid interpretations over me liking one band and not another, its called difference of opinions and respecting others tastes, look it up sometime.

"And if we are drawing to conclusions, then you sir are an elitist who i hold little or no respect for. And if you ACTUALLY knew me, then you'd see what type of music i like but instead you'd rather go on stupid interpretations over me liking one band and not another, its called difference of opinions and respecting others tastes, look it up sometime."

I know I'm an elitist, I don't need to be told. But you just showed me your view of what elitism is and that's not how I view it as I explained. My approach to musical elitism is extremely different.

Secondly, I couldn't really care less what bands you like so where you got the assumption that I've been guessing what bands you like, I don't know. But it seems throughout threads you keep TRYING to pick some kind of arguement up with me.

-AC

No mate thats you i've never had a problem with anyone on this site, and i've argued with many - Backfire being one of them, at the end of the day its a healthy debate no more no less, its only a problem when its made one, and quite frankly i don't see it as that.

Good.

Just make sure you don't change it from healthy debate to a problem when it suits you or when things don't go your way and we won't have a problem.

-AC

And the same to you, i've been on here for a long time and if i had that kinda attitude don't you think i'd have been kicked off ages ago ?

I don't know, haven't been here for that. Like you said, best not to assume.

Regardless of our musical disagreements you are smart, I mean that in the least patronising way possible. So I don't intend the words either of us say to be taken as hostile. We're both very passionate about putting our views across is all. Perhaps now that has come to light we will know how to interpret each other better.

-AC

I'd not say I'm smart, i'd argue a point if i feel strongly for it. I can admit defeat and do not like to 'bask' in glory. Life's to short to hold grudges, you are obviously a very passionate individual who has a 'smart head on his shoulders' I'm not afraid to admit that, i can swallow my pride and acknowledge the plight of others - i to mean that not in an unpatronising way and more a form of respect.

And anyone who thinks that way is blatantly too poseur-elitist, judgemental, biased, bigoted and therefore too damn stupid to "understand" the nuances of a band like Tool.

I love to watch morons comit suicide, it's the highlight of my day.

"And anyone who thinks that way is blatantly too poseur-elitist, judgemental, biased, bigoted and therefore too damn stupid to "understand" the nuances of a band like Tool.

I love to watch morons comit suicide, it's the highlight of my day."

Let me know when you see it happen, I find it quite fun also. Love me or hate my guts, moron said to me can be nothing more than a disrespectful remark because I'm afraid that's a group I don't fall into.

But like I said, understand them fully or understand them to no degree whatsoever, the fact that he seems to like Tool doesn't "bother" me. Every band has shit fans. I know how much I like them and that's what matters to me. Everyone gets something out of music for themselves, he may get a little or he may get alot. Doesn't matter to me.

Bit presumptuous to call me bigoted and biased in with all those. I'm biased toward liking smart people, sorry. As for judgemental, I judge things that I have the right to judge. Him being a celebrity putting himself on TV for all to see, automatically gives me the right to judge what I see should I want to. But I'm not doing so wholly, like I said. Couldn't care less. I concentrate on me and certain others worth my time. The only reason this has gone as far as it has was because of my debating with Wicker Man.

-AC

how can you say that "every band has shit fans"? just because they dont like the band as much as you (well you seem to assume they don't) makes them a shit fan. each person has the right to be a fan of a band, and when you say the guy from busted isn't a real fan because of the band he's in, your looking like an elitist fool. and your version of elitism isn't what it is. the "elitism" you talk of "selecting music that is amazing" is simply that "selecting music." the elitism that you suffer from is where you take a stance of superiority over others because you think that through your opinion you are worth more than them and your opinion is more important and ultimatly correct over theirs, despite everyone being having their own opinion and their not being a "correct" one

You are generalising this far too much. I have repeatedly said everyone has the right to music and I couldn't care less if he listens to Tool or not. I'd prefer idiots not to listen to music they are quite clearly not capable of appreciating BUT I can't stop them so let them feel free to. They'll get bored soon enough if they can't handle it, and if they can then boom. Another smart fan of a great band is born (regardless of what band it is. Not necessarily Tool). The fact is, I know that the bands I love are the best of the best when compared to most bands that others like. So in the grand scheme of things, I couldn't give a shit about the masses. I don't dwell in them or their musical likings. I have an extremely high love, respect and admiration for music and therefore I have very clear views of what is and isn't shit inside of it.

"how can you say that "every band has shit fans?"

By saying it. In my opinion, with all the fans it's possible for any band to have, there will be morons in there somewhere. Law of averages. You say I'm looking like an elitist like it's something I've not admitted to. Elitism does not equal being a fool, maybe you should accept that. I'm not feeling threatened by your way of perceiving, don't feel the same about mine.

"your version of elitism isn't what it is. the "elitism" you talk of "selecting music that is amazing" is simply that "selecting music." the elitism that you suffer from is where you take a stance of superiority over others because you think that through your opinion you are worth more than them and your opinion is more important and ultimatly correct over theirs, despite everyone being having their own opinion and their not being a "correct" one"

Despite the fact that scientifically you cannot PROVE any band is better than any other, I believe that if you look at certain bands compared to other bands, some are undoubtably amazing and some are unquestionably rubbish. If anyone can actually look at Avril Lavigne and say "That's good music" their opinion isn't wrong, it just sucks. Everyone has the right to an opinion and if I choose to have an opinion of someone elses opinion, that's the way things go. If someone has an opinion that involves liking a band I hate or deem shit, I won't tell them they have a wrong opinion. Just a very very shit one, which I have the right to do. If of course you wanna hold true to everyone's right to an opinion.

YOU are the one picking up the wrong vibes here. Stop telling me what I think my opinions mean and how I think, if you feel that's how I act, go for it. Don't tell me how I think and act. Do you think my opinion puts me above others? Because that's not the impression I give off so you can only be adopting it on your own.

I honestly don't mind debating about music, I enjoy it very much. However if this is going to turn into an event where you try to pick up and debate anything I say in any thread purely because you don't like me (Tabby with random Go Wickerman, chants in the other thread) then quite frankly you can drop your petty childish attitudes at the door. Me and Wicker Man see far from eye to eye but at least he isn't contradicting himself at all. You come in here claiming I hold my opinion above others and believe it makes me more important when you believe elitism means I'm a fool undoubtedly, if your post is anything to go by. That's the impression I got, if you don't believe that then feel free to change your opinion.

-AC

i can come in and state my opinion, as every person has the right to. i also have the right to support someone elses opinion, as i'm sure at some point you have done in this very forum.
and as i read you analysis and rebutle to my comment, you seem to miss the whole point in things i've said and simple said the equivilant of "because i can" for reasoning. thats not good argument, thats just childish. and as for "Stop telling me what I think my opinions mean" i never once told you that i understand EXACTLY what you think you opinions mean, i simply said that from what your saying, your looking like an elitist fool, and that the way you perceive elitism isn't the way the rest of the world does, which is really asking for mistakes from other people when reading your posts. which brings me to the "Elitism does not equal being a fool" thing. i never said being an elitist = being a fool. i said YOU were acting like an elitist fool, the two things were entirely different. i'm kinda amazed that someone like you who has taken the time to disect wickermans posts time and time again you couldn't simply differentiate between the two.

"as for "Stop telling me what I think my opinions mean" i never once told you that i understand EXACTLY what you think you opinions mean, i simply said that from what your saying, your looking like an elitist fool, and that the way you perceive elitism isn't the way the rest of the world does"

Oh....oh forgive me. You alone have now presented what is quite clearly a fact. The rest of this planet views elitism completely different to me just because you said so. Right, now I know that we're clear.....

The way I perceive musical elitism is how I explained it. That's how I view it and I'm not asking you or anyone else to share that opinion but realise that the way YOU view elitism is not how I use it. So therefore, arguing against me for being something that I'm not, is silly. Because the only reason YOU view me as being that certain type of elitist is purely down to how YOU view elitism. Doesn't make it fact. I don't look like a fool, but I thank you for feeling so passionate about my posts on these forums.

"i'm kinda amazed that someone like you who has taken the time to disect wickermans posts time and time again you couldn't simply differentiate between the two."

As I just showed you, differentiating between the two was never a problem at all. You are just doing what most people have tried and failed to do to be in arguements before and that's not explain themselves clearly enough. You gave such a vague arguement with the basic sum-up that I was an "elitist fool". Which in my opinion pretty much says that you view elitists.........as fools. So therefore, when I go by what very vague info you give me, don't come back saying I got it wrong. Come back and tell me what you meant in a clear way and maybe we can come to some kind of understanding.

Until then, I'm not afraid of your opinions, actions or mannerisms so don't feel threatened by mine. Not insinuating that you are, just letting you know. If my way of being is making me look like a "fool" to you, then ignore me. Don't take the time to post analysis on everything I write otherwise you're only letting me know that despite being an "elitist fool", I somewhat have you're undivided attention.

-AC

if you cant look at one word and then be able to seperate its meaning and the meaning from the next word in a list of words that are being used in a descriptive fashion (the "elitist fool" argument your persisting with) i'm obviously giving you much too much credit for being smart.

i cant believe how much you people type - who actually sits here and actually reads all that ...

some of you sound like 2 chics fighting over the same prom dress.
(its all nonsense) and in the end who cares

"if you cant look at one word and then be able to seperate its meaning and the meaning from the next word in a list of words that are being used in a descriptive fashion (the "elitist fool" argument your persisting with) i'm obviously giving you much too much credit for being smart."

Or maybe I'm given just enough credit, hence you picking me out.

Look, smart folk is a rarity on this forum and there are only a few who I'd at least like to try and get along with but if you're going to get anal about me being a certain way then fine, you've let me know how you feel, I've replied with my views. If you feel we can take this brick-waller debate further, go for it.

-AC

I have to agree with Morn Glory, nobody is gonna read that!

I don't get why people on this MESSAGE board, are so intimidated by reading messages longer than one paragraph.

-AC

Fair Enough, lets call the topic moot and move on.

the only stain on Tool is their elitist fans... they make music, with messages... messages that are a little bit more obscure than normal - just because you understand the message doesnt mean ur superior in any way to someone who enjoys the music regardless of meaning

I can't believe that you are so proud of your bone idle illiterate nature.

Translation - "Duh"

I don't think fans can stain a band. I have said I don't like idiots listening to Tool but at the same time it doesn't ultimately stain the band for me.

Also, when it comes to the point that people can't be bothered to read a message on a MESSAGE BOARD, it's a very sad day for humanity.

-AC

yes sir, I am very proud!

but still some of the post are novel lengths and very redundant

They aren't redundant to me, reading or posting them.

Then again I'm literate and have an attention span larger than that of a Barnyard Hen.

-AC

Come on guys (and gals) this thread was designed as a bit of light relief, and once again its been turned into another 'fight scene' lets just call it quits. There's enough threads on this particular argument as it is. Your all smart enough to argue your points but are you smart enough to call it quits ?