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I'm sure this is a much discussed topic, but I wanted to see if opinions have changed and take a poll of current opinions.

and if you take I don't know I'd say you ought to think about the issue anyway.

I'm all for it.

um. . what is it

Depends. My Grandmother is 86, she's still got an incredibly smart and coherent mind. But she can't feed herself, bathe herself, go to the toilet herself, walk, move or see properly.

So I think it's tragic that she's still around. It's like the reverse of being braindead, which I think is much worse.

-AC

isnt that the stuff they give you to go to sleep at the dentist's office?

Euthanasia is the technical name for mercy killing, that is purposefully ending a person's life to end their suffering.

ie. elderly, cancer patients, terminally ill etc

Hmmm perhaps I should have added a few more poll slots for leaning one way or another...as I belive I lean towards for but stand against becuase the legislation and regulation and decision making processes involved in actually implementing a euthanasia program are not practically possible as things stand in the world today.

Also, my mum has to go around and care for my grandmother (her mother) full time and do all kinds of shit. Emotionally it's tragic, physically it's the most draining and it's not the best of sights either, some of the stuff she sees.

Now, she's been doing that for her mother for 16 years..........16 years. That's longer than some of the forum members here have been alive and there have been EASILY under 50 days when she has not done that work. Under 50 days off in 16 years.

As much as I love my grandmother I would welcome her death. Because it's almost brought on the emotional death of my mother and our family has nearly been broken up due to the amount of sheer stress she gets under from it. The worst part is, she never complains.

So yeah, Euthanasia in for the most part gets my vote and unless you've been through what my mother has first hand or been around someone like it, I don't think you can speak on it logically.

-AC

if they are beyond all hope or repair, but still have a working mind, then no i dont have a problem with it.

Well, if a person has no chance of getting better, and is in pain then I say yes

why dont they put her in a nursing home, or get her a care taker.

Only if I can decide for MYSELF. To do this to someone else simply because they are old or infirm is wrong IMHO and smacks of Big Brother. Now if a family member has requested this while still lucid then Id support it.

"why dont they put her in a nursing home, or get her a care taker"

A care taker? She's not a lawn that you go to, mow and then go home. She's a human being.

It's a little thing my mother does, called loving her mother and wanting to be there for her until the day she leaves this planet. Which is why I'd rather it be sooner than later (although isn't near 17 years too late?) and why I approve of Euthansia is certain situations.

-AC

ah the issue gets tricky real quick...therein lies the rub....euthanasia can be the means to ending much suffering and pain, but the potential for system abuse is phenominal....who gets to make the decisions? Does MR. Filthy stinkin rich's greedy son get to decide whether dear old dad is ready to be offed??? Where is the line between able and unable drawn

sorry but that just cracked me up

"Does MR. Filthy stinkin rich's greedy son get to decide whether dear old dad is ready to be offed??? Where is the line between able and unable drawn"

I think you just answered that. I think there should be a form, similar to a release form, "in the event of zero quality of life that so and so be allowed to terminate my life." Obviously way more specific but with that essence.

-AC

AGAINST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because:
1. it is murder (ev. as goes official term help with comiting suicide)
2. how can anyone know that the next day the person is killed they won't make a cure for that disease? (i know that the possibility of that is not very high, but still there is some)

I am for it in very, very controlled cases, and I think its very important that the person in question be the one to make the decision, after all there are states of life that are so terrible that it is a preferable to die, and it be your decision, then live on in remarkable pain. And I don't support the argument "but what if they find a cure the next day?" It is pretty much unheard of that one day a researcher just fines a cure, in fact I have never heard of such a case. And when there is a prospective cure which, may, say cure cancer, it wont hit the shelves over night. With all prospective medicines there is usually months of testing, if not, as is more common, years. Tested on animals. The limited tests on special human groups. Long periods of analysis of results. If a person is at a stage where euthanasia is a desired option, then the promise of a cure years of is of little comfort.

"2. how can anyone know that the next day the person is killed they won't make a cure for that disease? (i know that the possibility of that is not very high, but still there is some)"

More of a personal con of Euthanasia than a logical one, isn't it? To each their own.

-AC

It should be entirely the persons own choice and there should be a legal document for each person stating under what conditions they would wish to die, to live little or no margin of error.

I think it is wrong.And most of the time I heard that they just kill that old person who is suffering without asking him or her first.To me it is murder.
JM

Euthanasia is illegal in a lot of western countries, and in those it is legal I don't think it is permitted to just kill a person in such a way. Ultimately its about choice. A few years back it was legalised in Australia for a brief time, and it wasn't about getting rid of old people, ti was about giving the terminally ill the option to end the pain and indignity of what they were experienced. So I don't think it could be used to just remove old people.

Like Bill Maher said: "I'm for anything that gets the highway moving faster."

against IMO it is murder and that isnt good is it

If it was legalised it wouldn't be murder, and if it is someones choice it is more suicide then murder.

it isn't suicide cause they ain't doing it themselves

ye but if they've written down that they want to be killed under certain circumstances then it is indirect suicide.

True, and if they are still capable of articulating words and have possession of their mental faculties then they would also be making the decision to end their lives, in essence committing suicide with help, why its also know as assisted suicide.

yep. But suicides illegal in many countries (i think i said this somewhere else but its the stupidest law ever created cos how you gonna prosecute someone who's dead?) and as long as suicides illegal i guess euthenasia will be too...

I have often wondered that myself. And what would be the punishment? I mean obviously the death penalty is out.

lol precisely, i mean talk about a waste of a law! What did they discuss in parliament (or the senate)? Theres no way of punnishing anybody and nobodys going to think -"oh no im not going to commit suicide! its illegal!"

Indeed

i am for it

I'm always down to support the youth in Asia.

certain politicians should try it out

Come on.... are you serious?

I'm for euthanasia. Then again, I'm also suicidal.

I think euthanasia is wrong in some cases. For example, a person who is in a coma for months; someone who has very little control over their life. In that case, i dont think anyone has the right to decide whether that person will live or die, no matter if its the person's relatives
It's still murder.

I am for.If they ask for it themselves.

Euthanasia and abortion go hand in hand with how they are treated.

Both are always dependent on the situation at hand.

I'm all for euthinasia...

I think anyone who has lived w/ a loved one dieing from alzheimers would agree with me...

if you talk about people in tremendous pain and they can deceide for themselves, you should definitly go for it... murder or whatever crap people come up is bull since you do what they want and do them a favor by stopping the pain.

problem comes of course if they aren't capable or are in a coma and such... then again, the law provides the answer. We have a law for it over here, but I can't remember what's in it anymore

suicide is generally condemned correct???? I've chosen to cast my vote with those against euthanasia because I still believe the potential for abuse of the system is high.
Pain and suffering, emotionally are a part of life....they are entities that make a person or break a person. Chronic pain is horrible, add it to the long list of things gone wrong.
why is it that pain would be a factor in allowing someone to committ suicide?

If you were burned in a terribal car crash and all of you skin was almost burned off and you had to undergo many surgeries and years of physical therapy, and even then you would be bed ridden and imoble incapable of doing anything, would you rather be Euthanized and go peacfully and pain free, or go through a few more painfull and stressful years?

See here's what would most likely happen....either I'd completely flip and try to committ suicide on my own...or I'd keep my senses, write a book about my struggles, and pass my life the best way I know how....prayer lots of it

I don't really get why it's against the law to commit suicide... that seems a little over the top to me.

I don't really know exactly what Euthanasia is.. But I do have to say that if I was extremely elderly and in pain and just tired of living, I would want the option to be able to kill myself. I mean sure suffering is a "part of life" but if I don't want anything to do with life anymore than why should I still have to suffer?

buy you cant write or type, and your vocal cords blew up, then what would you do?

Ummm if my vocal cords "blew up" I'd probably be dead and this exchange would mean nothing. But for the sake of argument, I can't write, type, or speak....can I move??? I would use one of those special hospital thingies that allow people to answer yes and no and insist that someone else ie mom, dad, someone....read to me....I'd watch movies...I'd eat....er intraveneously....I'd do the best with what I have

No your paralized

At that point life becomes more of a nuisance than a gift.

true...but life can be a nuisance anyway:-) dang....well, can I see??? I'd still watch movies. I'd still listen to tapes, CDs, etc. I'd still have the world within my mind with which to self entertain. Strength of heart and mind are most apparent when pain is the order of the day

They wouldnt let you listen to music and your eyes were burned out

lol....well I'm in pretty sore shape then eh...who's this evil they...they'd need a good longue lashing...wait I can't speak...oh welll, hope my family will give it to 'em for me.

Seriously, I maintain my previous answers...I'd either flip and be beggin someone to off me....or I'd struggle through life, grumbling, complaining, perhaps cursing in my head, but I'd be alive....alive to dream, alive to think, alive.

I guess thats the point, some people would go on, and be determined to hang on to life, no matter how terrible such a life is to them, while others would appreciate the chance to go out peacefully, and as they seem to believe, with dignity. And its true, pain and adversity are a part of life, but for most part not the pain on the level of an incurable, debilitating disease, and not the adversity of something you have no chance of over coming.

They gave you a Lobotomy and made it so you couldnt dream or think about pleasent things

Lol. Thats why u should have a legal document stating under what conditions you want to be euthanised. That way its a personal thing and if you dont want it noone can give it to u cos u put it in writing.

All depends on your value for human life I guess. In my opinion being alive doesn't mean you're living but some people get anal and think everything alive is important.

However I think if you're alive and have absolutely ZERO percent quality of life, you should be able to have that kind of release form.

-AC

Do you think its fair?!

I think that you shouldn't get arreseted for it, I think that it should be legal but may be someone should be there to witness the right of the person who wish's to die, to make sure someone isn't killing them off for their money.

Its different because people can kill themselves and theres no punishment of course, I think that if someone is so ill that they can't do it themselves, and there is no way of living then they should be able to end their life in their way, peacefully and not dying a painful death!

i think it was already discussed in GDF

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=315136

excessive pain is generally feared....with good reason. So in such cases, i understand why euthanasia is an attractive option. no one wants to hang around uselessly ....... the advances in tech have complicated things greatly

Yea, and some people might be dying painfully, and I really think that its their right to how they die! Doesn't everyone really?!

If I were to agree with that then I'd have to say suicide is okay,...and that I definately think is wrong...killing oneself is well, wrong

Why exactly is it "wrong" for someone to end their own life? I agree it's a sad thing but I don't see how it's wrong.

I really don't see any reason why someone who is on their deathbed and wants a quick death as oppose to a long, painful one should not be allow the right to do so. Yeah pain is a part of life but when somebody is about to die and doesn't wish to live anymore, the pain they suffer meanwhile is unnecessary suffering. They don't want to be here, the only reason they are in pain is because they are alive, what difference does it make for anyone other then themselves if they want to speed up the process?

Recently my step-aunt's 11 year old daughter died of cancer in the spine. She was complaining about backpains on Friday, got rushed to the hospital, the doctor diagnosed that the cancer has spread rapidly and it was only a matter of a few days. She was on an oxygen tank keeping her alive until sunday when she asked them to take her off the oxygen tank to let her die. Is it a sad thing? Of course, it's extremely sad. But when somebody gets to the point where they are on their death bed and know that life will be nothing but pain for the rest of their time here, they should have the right to end it all quickly. I don't know if that's the same situation as when euthanasia would be used but it's the closest thing I could think of that that's happen to someone I know personally.

I agree, I don't think that suicide is right, but in some cases people feel like its the only option left. Its not a choice sometimes, its a dieces. I've seen people do it, and they might regret after if they didn't manidge to kill themself that they did it! But This isn't like suicide, suicide you're normally not sick!!! This is for people who ARE going to die, no matter what....

LOL thats funny

and I think when they say its Illegal as in a cop goes walking down the street and sees a woman on the top of a building readi to kill her self, he can climb all the way to the top and then put her into custody

as for Euthnasia, if the person is in real pain I'd accept it

I think someone just randomly commiting suicide is wrong because it seems sorta selfish to leave your family and friends like that but euthenasia is different. If you are going to die slowly and horribly it is better to save yourself and your family that suffering.

Yeah why is killing yourself wrong? It's your life so why is it wrong? Hmm...yeah if you're in extreme pain and don't want to live like that then fine you should be able to choose if you want to die...or you can choose if you want to live so then it's fair both ways.

I'm for it in almost every condition

yup! and ooh i love your avvy Fire

I was against it until my grandma was in the hospital for 3 months with a breathing tube, and was told she would never get out after a heart surgery. She asked that it be done to her, she was slowly dieing.

And then what happened?

geez we should just condone abortion, euthanasia, death penalty for stealing, lying, cheating, etc, suicide...then the world pop might decline a bit *rolls eyes*

lol not the death penalty but all the others

geez carm dwn abit

If the person wan'ts to die and they have a shitty life I okey with it but I am against somebody saying there too old and just killing them

"geez we should just condone abortion, euthanasia, death penalty for stealing, lying, cheating, etc, suicide...then the world pop might decline a bit *rolls eyes*"

Abortion: Yes.
Euthanasia: Given the situation and proper agreement, Yes.
Death Penalty: No.

The rest happen anyway and will continue to.

-AC

I'm with AC on this one

Depends on the situation. If the person is in constant pain, has no chance for recovery, is dying a slow and agonizing death, and more importantly WANTS to die, then yes I believe euthansia is acceptable.

abortion: sometimes if like the baby is deformed

death penelty: Yes

euthanasia: sometimes

My response would probably be deleted.

Napalm, why are you not totally for abortion, yet completely for the death penalty?

Illogical.

Abortion is necessary, the death penalty isn't. It's just a cop out for your shit prison system.

-AC

Some people just don't deserve to live

some "forfeit the right to life" by murdering others....

One question:

Who in the hell do you think you are to make the judgement call that some people forfeit the right to life?

Get down off the cloud. You, nor anyone else, has the right to make an official call on whether someone is worthy of living or not.

Some people don't deserve to live? True. Does that mean I have the right to go out and commit murder? No. Just coz idiots do it, doesn't mean it's any more right when the authorities do.

What if they're actually innocent? What then? If the prison system was better, the justice system too, the death penalty wouldn't be necessary.

-AC

Exactly AC.
But it will never be that way. It will never change.
People are Sadistic, and evil. All of us. The Death Penalty, Murder, Suicide, BDSM, everything including violence....will never stop, because the Human Race is flawed.
We'll end up killing ourselves out, eventually....if not sooner.....

(just to expand on your point considering the topic)

euthanasia can never be considered murder for the simple reason that when you murder someone your intention was to ...well... murder someone (see also the difference between murder and manslaughter)
euthanasia is ending a life with the intention to ease the pain for the person, it's a very utilistic view if you just look at the effects of the action... and kinda stupid to do, you rather want one to live in pain for the next umptheen years before he/she dies a, still, painful death compared to immediat death without any pain

Exactly.

Although a life comes to an end, there's a difference between taking it prematurely and ending it manually.

-AC

I'm all for euthanasia. If someone is terminally ill, knows they won't get better, and knows that their remaining days will be spent in pain, then they should be able to choose to end their lives on their terms.

Sometimes parents just dying, is a luxury not afforded to most.

Sounds weird but, I'd rather my parent/s be ill and pass on rather quickly than like....being drawn out.

My mother cares for her mother fulltime. Has done so for 16 years, every single day almost. Along the way, cared for two aunts.

If I could have put them to rest deservedly, I would have.

-AC

If they want it themselves or are braindead then yes. I am 100% for it.

Agree 100% too.

If Napalm is being carried to the Chair one day for a crime he didn't commit, I'm gonna be at the glass window holding up a sign saying, "Don't blame me, I thought barbarianism died out with the cavemen".

-AC

You are an evil human being.

Like I will write on the sign: "Don't blame me etc".

I'm not evil, just like irony. Evil? Evil is legalising murder by electrocution. That's evil. How barbaric do you wanna get? Some of the murders these guys GET the chair for aren't even as bad.

Imagine how it feels being a man with a family, sitting in the electric chair about to be killed, KNOWING you are innocent. Just imagine that. Just imagine what it must feel like, then tell me the Death Penalty is good. Or right.

-AC

Well...death penalty should be give only to horrific crimes...somebody like Hitler should be killed. Or somebody like Stalin.

And I just said that I agree that somepeople deserve death...not innocent people...

Yeah but innocent people have been given the death penalty.

-AC

Not even people like Hitler or Stalin deserve to be killed. Besides life in prisonment (without all the fancy luxury) is far more harsh

this is going to be a topic that will probly never be solved for the right answer and everyone is forever going to have different opinions about

what are peoples views on euthanasia? should it be made legal?

I think it should be made legal it always should be recognized that is more thenone type as well.

Not all times is it someone plugging you in like someone in jail who is on death row.

It can be as passive as stopping medication. Our system likes to force alot on the public especially whenever "medicine" is used in conjunction with the law. Like the mare fetus incubator laws!

Originally posted by Biscuit
what are peoples views on euthanasia? should it be made legal?

I live in Oregon, and I voted for the right to die law.

The strong survive. The weak die. It would be good to give a chance to strength be it mental or physical.

I am for the right to die laws.

If someone is suffering and asks to be euthanised, they should get their wish.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
If someone is suffering and asks to be euthanised, they should get their wish.

Hey I'm broke and suffering. Will you grant my wish for a $ 1000 please ? Please ?

Bump

Originally posted by soleran30
Bump

What a seriously pointless Bump......

Anyways, I think everyone has the right to die when they want, and how they want, supposing it is not against the rights of others...

Originally posted by Bardock42
What a seriously pointless Bump......


*cough*

Direct and indirect euthanasia are legal here in Belgium.

We have Dr. Death (Kovorkian) sp?........here......

Originally posted by Bardock42
What a seriously pointless Bump......

Anyways, I think everyone has the right to die when they want, and how they want, supposing it is not against the rights of others...


lol gotta love when someone calls your bump lame then posts under their opinion of a bump


We have so many people here that are pro-life though it does coincide with abortion but at the other end of a time-line.


Suicide is against the law unless a doctor helps you lol

Originally posted by soleran30
lol gotta love when someone calls your bump lame then posts under their opinion of a bump


We have so many people here that are pro-life though it does coincide with abortion but at the other end of a time-line.


Suicide is against the law unless a doctor helps you lol

Well, it was pointless since it was only like twenty minutes...the other Euthanasia Thread was still on the top of the first page...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, it was pointless since it was only like twenty minutes...the other Euthanasia Thread was still on the top of the first page...


It was merged and moved so I bumped the merged thread..................

hey no blood no fool did I knock another important thread that was discussed off the forum



forget the bumps this is about euthanasia!

Originally posted by soleran30
It was merged and moved so I bumped the merged thread..................

hey no blood no fool did I knock another important thread that was discussed off the forum



forget the bumps this is about euthanasia!

That was my point...someone would have bumped it eventually AND contributed to it.

Anyways, it is of no matter...what is of matter is that it is outrageous that a human being may not choose when to die.

Originally posted by GCG
Hey I'm broke and suffering. Will you grant my wish for a $ 1000 please ? Please ?

That's not exactly the same as not being able to control your bodily functions, now is it?

Originally posted by GCG
Hey I'm broke and suffering. Will you grant my wish for a $ 1000 please ? Please ?

I would, it's against the law though. If it was legal, I'd do it for free.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
That's not exactly the same as not being able to control your bodily functions, now is it?

Not exactly, but if someone is suffering and asks to be aided economically, they should get their wish. Yes.

Originally posted by GCG
Not exactly, but if someone is suffering and asks to be aided economically, they should get their wish. Yes.

no, now describe your level of discomfort using your five senses throughout the description and how that would relate to euthanasia

Originally posted by Bardock42
I would, it's against the law though. If it was legal, I'd do it for free.

Wow, you are an idiot...aren't you....

Originally posted by soleran30
no, now describe your level of discomfort using your five senses throughout the description and how that would relate to euthanasia

You dont need to legalize a right to self-termination.

Are you fed up ? Jump off a building, take an overdose, run onto the tracks as the train speeds by, hang yourself from a noose, play chicken with an elephant, douse yourself in petrol and lighten up, get bitten by a viper, take a night tour to New York's suburbs, shoot yourself in the heart, stab yourself in the heart, cut open your arteries, piss off a grizzly bear, jump into the sea and swim to the ocean, jump into the propellor of a boat.

Are you a bed-ridden incapacite who cannot move from a hospital ward ?

Too bad. If you want to die, eventually you will. Dont eat, dont drink and die. You dont need to have it legalized. You dont care how you die. You dont care what your corpse will look like, and You dont care what others think.

A question I have is does it really matter if its legal or not ? What stops fatal self infliction and will it matter if you succeed or fail ?

I am refering to the personal aspect of the situation and not where third parties are involved and have a decision taken from someone else's behalf.

Originally posted by GCG

Are you a bed-ridden incapacite who cannot move from a hospital ward ?

Too bad. If you want to die, eventually you will. Dont eat, dont drink and die. You dont need to have it legalized.

And if you have a feeding tube down your throat and attached to a life support machine?

Originally posted by GCG
The strong survive. The weak die. It would be good to give a chance to strength be it mental or physical.


Hell yes.

Euthanasia is a very tricky subject. I agree with it in certain instances, but I think it is something which could very easily be abused. That's where the whole trouble lies. One of my uncles was in a coma for about a year - after a motorbike accident - before he died. My mother was sure she would ocasionally see some sort of recognition, which would imply an ability to recover, but ultimately he never did. I can totally understand the wishes of someone who is terminally ill and in a lot of pain, but I think it is much harder to judge the case of someone who is in a coma/vegetative state. Almost perversely, I supported what happened in the Terri Schiavo case. It seemed correct.

I agree with you Kurnk'd, that is the problem, the giant possibility of abuse in some situations. It's a topic that's hard to have a real set-in-stone opinion on because it would be so situational.

I guess bottom line for me is, why go on like a burden? And not only a burden, but a burden that responds like a vegitable? Burdens are one thing, we all have them. Be it an overly protective mother that kept you from being able to go to the bathroom anywhere but at home, or a father that raised you to believe that family is the number one obligation, a persistant vegitative state is not good. And, especially for those who ascribe religion to the situation, when the body is done for, why make the mind suffer away from god? If the person lives on, then aren't you doing the best thing for the soul?

I support euthansia. I think it's cruel to make people suffer, if they are dying, they should be able to make the decision to end their lives. After all, they are in control of their life, and no one else can make decisions for them.

AC writes: You, nor anyone else, has the right to make an official call on whether someone is worthy of living or not.

This could bring us straight back to the abortion debate. You think I'm hypocritical? Look at your own comments? The death penalty isn't neccesary but abortion is? 90% of the time abortion is NOT neccesary. Neccesary should mean life or death, not convienence.

AC writes: Evil is legalising murder by electrocution. That's evil. How barbaric do you wanna get?

Barbaric is stabbing an unborn baby in the head and sucking it's brains out. Don't forget that death row inmates have the option of the chair or injection, and they always opt for injection because they're afraid of the pain of being zapped.



Anyway. With the Teri Shivio case, I don't think the case should ever have gotten that far. Michael was Teri's next of kin, so he should have had the right to pull the plug. Teri was never going to get better, her parents, IMO, were a bunch of religious freaks who were too selfish to look past their own beliefs and consider for just a second what their daughter may have wanted.

AC, I know whats it's like having a grandparent like that. Although I don't know yet, my great aunt has Alziemers, and will lose the ability to eat, go to the bathroom, feed herself etc. I feel so bad knowing that will happen to her, and she knows it too, it must be so scary for her. My aunt isn't the type to want to end her life, but I often wonder if she'll change her mind down the track. I really don't want to see her suffer.
It's hard to know what the person would want if they can't soeak for themselves, that's why everyone should make a living will as soon as they can, and tell your family of your wishes.

Originally posted by Makedde
This could bring us straight back to the abortion debate. You think I'm hypocritical?

No, I've/you've proven you are. There's no "think" about it. Go on, though...

Originally posted by Makedde
Look at your own comments? The death penalty isn't neccesary but abortion is? 90% of the time abortion is NOT neccesary. Neccesary should mean life or death, not convienence.

You view me as a pro-abortion though, that's not what I am. I'm pro-whatever the hell she wants to do with her own body and her own creation. I don't agree with certain abortions, but then again, I don't agree with a lot of things that are none of my business. So I do what anyone should do and keep my nose out.

The death penalty isn't necessary in any case, it's just around because the governments (and people) think the prisons are too far gone to have any complete reform and use the death penalty as a sweep-it-under-the-rug solution. There are abortions that are necessary, even you admit. So that puts your case right out of the window. Moreover, this is euthanasia, not abortion.

Originally posted by Makedde
AC writes: Evil is legalising murder by electrocution. That's evil. How barbaric do you wanna get?

Barbaric is stabbing an unborn baby in the head and sucking it's brains out. Don't forget that death row inmates have the option of the chair or injection, and they always opt for injection because they're afraid of the pain of being zapped.

You miss the point, as per usual.

Don't lecture someone on why they're dangerous and barbaric, then kill them in a way that is devised to be barbaric. It doesn't make you look good, it makes you looks as bad and hypocritical.

-AC

You said electrocution was barbaric, I say stabbing a baby's head and sucking it's brains out is also barbaric. You think it isn't?

I don't agree with certain abortions, but then again, I don't agree with a lot of things that are none of my business.

The death penalty is none of your business, so why so against it?

Originally posted by Makedde
You said electrocution was barbaric, I say stabbing a baby's head and sucking it's brains out is also barbaric. You think it isn't?

I don't agree with certain abortions, but then again, I don't agree with a lot of things that are none of my business.

The death penalty is none of your business, so why so against it? The Death Penalty is our business though....it could be you or AC or me that gets killed by it...and it is a REAL Human that gets killed....that being said, I don't care for the Death Penalty, kill them if you feel like it....

Replied to Makedde in Abortion thread.

-AC

Originally posted by Makedde
I say stabbing a baby's head and sucking it's brains out is also barbaric. You think it isn't?

Sucking baby brains isn't barbaric! It's delicious!

Mmmm, 'baby brains'...

Capt> Define "burden".

I am in favour of euthanasia... if I could be absolutely certain that those who chose it, did it completely freely and willingly. I guess it depends on what country you live and who has to pay, say, hospital-bills.

I've made an arrangement with my family, that in the case I get in an accident and goes in coma, with no chance of recovering as more than a vegetable, they should pull the plug. This has nothing to do with me thinking I'd be a burden as hospitals are free in Denmark. It has to do with ME not wanting to live like that.
Or if I, at an old age, become ill and in terrible pain, I may want it to be over with.

But in countries where there's a hospital-bill to pay this becomes trickier, I think. If old grandpa Jones' family has to pay for his hospital-bill, would they eventually try to convince him to euthanasia??

And what about the doctors? Euthanasia is assisted suicide... Suicide is illegal (yes, ironic in a way, if I were to try and take my own life and fail, I'd be prosecuted). And where, then, do we draw the line? Would it only be doctors who could perform euthanasia? Would it be ethical of them?

Makkede> "The death penalty is none of your business, so why so against it?"
We're talking about someones sister/brother, mother/father, daughter/son or friend. Not to mention the fact that it's become obvious a lot of those killed by the state were in fact innocent of the crime of which they were being punished...
And even if you're 100 % certain someone committed murder, why then use the crime he's being sentenced for as punishment? Is it ok for the state to murder?

Technically the state wouldn't be murdering, as the death penalty isn't unlawful.

That just adds to the hypocricy however. "You murdered, you killed, so we're going to do the same."

-AC

It is a natural course that should be chosen since it is your own life affected only. But this goes partly into philosphy and religion. The fact is, we (humanity in general) has developed too far and overstretched the boundaries of the natural world. If we had never developed such an unshakeable healthcare system, anyone in the medical state that this pertains to would have already been dead. Its natural that since we have so much stuff to make us live longer and all, we need something to cancel it out to a small extent. The decision should be made by the person who is affected and no others though, unless condition is beyond help. Life support is torture and something we shouldnt need.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Technically the state wouldn't be murdering, as the death penalty isn't unlawful.

That just adds to the hypocricy however. "You murdered, you killed, so we're going to do the same."

-AC

Well, it's not the Government that is killing the person, a society decides to have the Death Penalty for certain crimes, and if you choose to go against the will of society (which is undoubtedly quite a powerful "person" you will be punished accordingly, tough shit, don't kill someone the Society is protecting.

If someone should feel the need to answer, just quote me in the Death Penalty thread (I think we have one) I will respond if someone wishes me to.

A persons wishes should be written in a living will.

Originally posted by The Black Ghost
unshakeable healthcare system


It would actually be more appropriate to call it an unshakeable sickcare system.

There are several types of euthanasia anyway. Its part of the Hippocritic Oath..................Hippocratic Oath that also gets in the way for practicing medicine and the law regarding medicine. However that doesn't cover all aspects of euthanasia.

When its all said and done we are a society afraid of death.................from beggining to end. One man's fears dictate another man's laws


Go eithanasia, big time go living will ..................that was a good catch there Debbiejo.

Originally posted by Arachnoidfreak
And if you have a feeding tube down your throat and attached to a life support machine?

I'm guessing it a paralysed person; like Terry Schiavo's case. Personally I think, if the patient doesn't have the mental capacity to be in a consciences state, yet has the physical ability to remain alive with the tubes that have been provided, then allowance should be made to live. After all, that person cannot decide for them-self and no-one should be in their stead to decide.

Some decades ago, it wouldnt have been possible to retain life in these cases. There was not today's means to support them to live. Today we do. Even if keeping them alive might mean that they may never be able to move, medicine may profit off these cases to help understand how to better treatments for future patients.

Perhaps one day, the consequences of the 'hiccup' that led them to that state may be reversed.

Originally posted by The Omega
Capt> Define "burden".

I am in favour of euthanasia... if I could be absolutely certain that those who chose it, did it completely freely and willingly. I guess it depends on what country you live and who has to pay, say, hospital-bills.


That sounded like you are putting a price tag on those patients.

Originally posted by GCG
That sounded like you are putting a price tag on those patients.



I would to a certain extent.

Originally posted by soleran30
I would to a certain extent.

Why ?

I'm all for euthanising anyone who's against euthanasia.

because past say a 2 million dollar medical bill whats the cost analysis on that? Who is going to pay it? Where could resources have been allocated to better utilize that facility? Whats the chance of say a person thats alive/functioning getting a 2 million dollar medical bill (hint its not highly probable.)

So its a waste of resources time, money, professionals etc etc a HUGE DRAIN in my opinion.

Originally posted by soleran30
because past say a 2 million dollar medical bill whats the cost analysis on that? Who is going to pay it? Where could resources have been allocated to better utilize that facility? Whats the chance of say a person thats alive/functioning getting a 2 million dollar medical bill (hint its not highly probable.)

So its a waste of resources time, money, professionals etc etc a HUGE DRAIN in my opinion.

Researching medically into the different types of these cases may one day bring an end to these bed ridden patients. You keep them alive and try to learn from whats wrong will help medicine progress to find cures. Thats how medicine works.

A lot of things that were thought to be impossible in the past are a reality today. Finding cures will reduce the time of the bed ridden patients in the future. I see what you mean but you are looking at the short term.

Originally posted by Wesker
I'm all for euthanising anyone who's against euthanasia.

I see, quite hypocritical, isn't it?

Originally posted by GCG
Researching medically into the different types of these cases may one day bring an end to these bed ridden patients. You keep them alive and try to learn from whats wrong will help medicine progress to find cures. Thats how medicine works.

A lot of things that were thought to be impossible in the past are a reality today. Finding cures will reduce the time of the bed ridden patients in the future. I see what you mean but you are looking at the short term.


If you want to keep someone alive to perform tests pay the family for the guinea pig, don't charge them to learn on their dime. Here's a quick cost piece for hosiptal stays at least in the Midwest USA...........average stay roughly 3 days average cost 10,000$ based off BCBS midwest statistics. For 3 days nothing exceptionally life threatening happening, take that into perspective(midwest is inexpensive as compared to the coasts too)

Once again though not all patients will ask for euthanasia either, just like all pregnant women don't have abortions. We need to allow certain freedoms to exist in my opinion.

Originally posted by soleran30
If you want to keep someone alive to perform tests pay the family for the guinea pig, don't charge them to learn on their dime. Here's a quick cost piece for hosiptal stays at least in the Midwest USA...........average stay roughly 3 days average cost 10,000$ based off BCBS midwest statistics. For 3 days nothing exceptionally life threatening happening, take that into perspective(midwest is inexpensive as compared to the coasts too)

'guniea pigs' (I had a feeling you would have said that).

Why does the family have to pay those amounts and what happens if they dont have the money ?

Originally posted by soleran30
Once again though not all patients will ask for euthanasia either, just like all pregnant women don't have abortions. We need to allow certain freedoms to exist in my opinion.

Where is the freedom, when the patient is incapable of choosing ?

Originally posted by GCG
'guniea pigs' (I had a feeling you would have said that).

Why does the family have to pay those amounts and what happens if they dont have the money ?

Where is the freedom, when the patient is incapable of choosing ?


Why does the family have to pay? Its expensive for the hospital therefore its expensive for you.

Say for instance your surviving spouse keeps you alive and you don't pay the bill they reposses your house, earnings, etc etc you go to the gutter. If they cannot pay well then the hospital itself cannot shut off the machine however they can help to "influence" your descision in that direction.

If the patient is incapable of choosing try a living will with no resusitation

Originally posted by soleran30
Why does the family have to pay? Its expensive for the hospital therefore its expensive for you.

Say for instance your surviving spouse keeps you alive and you don't pay the bill they reposses your house, earnings, etc etc you go to the gutter. If they cannot pay well then the hospital itself cannot shut off the machine however they can help to "influence" your descision in that direction.

If the patient is incapable of choosing try a living will with no resusitation

There is no connection between the Hospital and 'you', unless you have the money to Privatise it.

How does it influence you ? If you face bills, your spouse:dead or alive, it does not matter, since you will still face the bills.

Your lecture of keeping someone alive at $10,000 for 3 days, just to simply keep them alive in connection with offcosting the said bill to their family, is in pieces. The family does not pay a dime.

How do you know that there is no living will Oh-most-learned Dr. ?

If the person has a terminal disease or/and has great suffering, I'm all for it

I'm all for youth in Asia. They're the ones who are gonna bring democracy and capitalism to the region, wide-scale.