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I think most of you guys are going to say yes and that is right.But at my highschool the coach there says no and no girls are allowed to try out for the team.
Becaue of this my friend who is a tom boy is starting a protest againt the coach.
Do you think she is right no doing this?And what are your thoughts on this?
As for me I think it is unfair I hate football but there are some girls at my school who would be good at it.
.But they are not even given a change,And that is unfair.JM

depends what football we're talking about here
the ORIGINAL football (which for no apparent reason the US changed to soccer....even tho it uses the foot alot more than American football)
or American Football (which should have a different name but the US cba to think up their own names for things. so they stick 'New' or 'American' infront of already existing names.....New York etc etc)

/rant

girls should be allowed to play whatever game they soo choose, however they shouldnt really expect to play against boys, because of the genetic physical superiority (even tho its becoming less and less apparent)

Your coach is breaking the law there's some law in the US stating that anyone is allowed to try out for any sport regardless of gender.

I say no.
We have seen what women have done to soccer, to watch a female game of soccer is just 90 min of torture. It will be even worse with American Football, I dont see why women/females have to take up all the sport the men do. You dont see men wanting to be a part of synchronized swimming.
I agree with the caoch, football is a men`s sport

What about in highschool?Do you really think the coach there is being fair to us?JM

football(soccer)? no, because quite simply the standard isn't high enough. I've watched womens world cup football, it doesnt compare. mia hamm is the only exception and shes average compared to the ronaldo's and zidane's of this world.

american football? are u kidding me? against women yes, against men? no way, unless they have a deathwish.

i think girls should be alowed to play if they want to all he has to do is not pick them saves the trouble ive played against many girls and some were ok better than some guys ive played against really lol

of course, but how many all women teams would genuinely compete to the standard of the men?

We should play what ever we want !!!!!

u can, just not against guys at football.

Indeed. Women playing football (US style) with men is the single most asinine thing thats happened with the women's movement.

Altho, I personally think it would be hysterical if some gal got out there thinking she was all big and bad and got her ass planted 2 feet into the ground.

Contrary to popular belief women are not equal to men in every single aspect. Part of the reason men dont open doors etc anymore is due to the feminist movement and I for one long for the days of chivalry.

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sure, they could play...until the first meeting with an 6-2, 255 pound inside linebacker.

Sure, I think girls should be able to try out for any sport at any level. All depends on how good they are. There was a girl named Michelle that played pop warner football, and of course it was a big deal the first couple years...but then when she made the Freshmen football team, people started taking her serious. She played all 4 years of High School and she was pretty good. She didn't start, but she didn't stand on the sidelines the whole game either. She was usually on kickoff/punt/punt return and certain run plays.

So I think it's fine for girls to tryout/play every sport. But they better be ready to be treated equal...and I mean COMPLETELY equal. Michelle got her ass kicked but she had the heart and turned out to be a damn good player.

i still open doors and pull out chairs.



i agree, if there good enough, then fine, but they can't expect to be treated differently because they're women. Hard tackles n all.

just ask the principle or what ever to talk to the coach and point him out that he's, as silver said, breaking the law.

if then the coach doesn't change, ask to create a girls-team

Here is the current NFL Injury Report. This list is huge, some teams have lost about 1/4 of their opening day roster.

Keep in mind that these men have trained their whole lives for what they're doing now, so they're in excellent shape.

I can remember when my son was growing up he was wrestling and there was this girl from another town that wrestled as well. She got out there and wrestled with the boys, but alot of the boys never gave her everything they had either and I know that too for a fact. I dont know but I do remember standing there thinking "It would be a cold day in hell before my daughter got out there and wrestled."

she is good for the level women are at, she wouldnt have made the local team here and they are in the 4th division.

I stoped watching women sport, to be frank they suck at sport

Yes, of course they should, why the hell not?

If you dont like watching women play football heres a solution for you -dont watch it!

I hate football - bunch of men running after one ball for 90 minutes. Oh how fun.
Football is just like any other sport - it requers fitness - women are playing all other sports, so whats so damn different about football? (apart from being boring)

I support female hockey

As long as women can accept the fact that unless a miracle happens, men are always going to be better at Football and not use equality as an excuse when they get whooped, then sure, they can play.

-AC

they really really suck at it

In my county, there was a girl who was the starting quaterback for her High School. Granted, they were a joke of a school...but it impressed me that she actually started at such a highly coveted position.

I say no, girls should not be allowed to play football. It is a male's sport, and any PC feminist she-males willing to argue better be able to explain why a male can't play on the field hockey team if a girl can play on the football team before they send their hatred this direction.

Also, once you get past high school....a girl would be utterly crippled by a college level or professional level athlete. Regardless of the female's build, pain threshold, or any other thing you can think of.

Even the most masculine female....like Chyna from that WWEwould get ruined by most male athletes.

The older humans get, the larger the difference in their gender.

Whats one of them Link?

for a better explanation....you'd best ask BackFire.

but in short, one of those "tough girls" who feels that the politically correct thing to do is to let females do anything that males do because "we're all equal." Just because she wants to prove she's more masculine than a male.

something like that.

So, let me understand this - basically you used bunch of words you dont know what they mean?

And the explanation you have given me doesnt even touch upon what you wrote.

I was only wondering what group of people were you refering to, since i never heard of PC feminism...

Most feminists I've known live under the delusion of total equality which is never gonna happen coz females are not and never will be the physical equal of males. I'm all for equal pay, equal job opportunities in as many places as possible but when it gets to the point of playing football with guys, fine. Just don't complain when your spine is snapped like a toothpick.

-AC

ok then AC, what is femenism?

Girls should be able to play all sports they want.

Let them play whatever they want.. who really cares. Just don't give them any special treatment. If a girl wants to try out for a sport the coach should treat her the same way he treats all his newly recruited male players: like shit. If she can take it and is a good addition to the team I don't see a problem with it.

Me neither.

Politically Correct - Of, relating to, or supporting broad social, political, and educational change, especially to redress historical injustices in matters such as race, class, gender, and sexual orientation.

Feminism - Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.

pretty much fits the bill.

I've never heard of those two terms used together either...and I most certainly never have heard them used with "she-males" following them.

What you read above is called a "rant" Need I really go further?

You're wrong Link.

What you defined there is a first wave femenism which doesnt exist anymore. you could have defined femenism as that in 50s, but not today. Read up on it sometimes.

In your endless pursuit to prove me wrong....did you ever think that everyone else here got the message I was sending without having to critique every word with a fine toothed comb?

what i defined was the dictionary definition of the word Feminism. Not "first wave" feminism...not next generation feminism. It was a dictionary definition.

by all means...feel free to enlighten us as to what feminism means in these modern times...

If she wants to let her, but i played highschool football and I can tell you it's a heck of a lot rougher than some think, and more dangerous because you've got a bunch of kids running around trying to kill eachother and they have yet to master the physical skills to totally control their body, and the knowledge of how to take and give a hit properly. Alot of kids get hurt cause they don't know what they are doing, but it's her choice.

I would love to see some 6'2, 210 pound kid try out for the field hockey team though. That would be great!

What I can't stand is that recently in canada a woman took a men's only gym to court because they would not let her in. However, there are plenty of woman's only gyms that men can't attend, and no one is willing to even talk about how unfair that is because they are afraid of the back lash it may cause.

Oh well. C'est la vie.

You used the phrase ''she-male PC femenist'' and I was only wondering what exactly or whom exactly were you referring to, as you dont seem to know that.

What are you trying to prove - how can i possibly take into consideration what you said, if i can clearly see that the words you used, you have no idea what they mean?

think most ppl here did understand tho

she-male - was a joking reference to the masculinity the feminists would have to have in order to be the physical equals to male athletes

PC (politically correct) - a reference to the desire for equality between the genders

feminist - a person who strives for equality between the sexes... effectively the same as PC, but not as generalised

If it's any conciliation - i got the message you were sending right away. It was apparent when you say "let females do anything that males do".

When you talk about "letting" women do anything it doesn't matter if it's football, golf, munitions factory work or trying to take a piss standing up - you're immediately full of shit. (And I dont mean "you" link I mean morons in general.)

If an 8 year old boy wants to play football you dont switch on the NFL and point to a linebacker and tell him he can't because he's not as big and fat as the guy playing pro sports. Each to his own level, each to his own team - judged on merit, not gender.

The sad thing is not that girls want to play football and sometimes can't, the sad thing is not that some people thing that being civil & polite to your fellow man be he male or female has somehow been wiped out because of Susan Faludi, The sad thing is that this subject crops up at all.

Its a non-issue folks. Some men are stronger than some other men, thats got as much to do with the feminist argument as some men being stronger than some women. IE NOTHING whatsoever. We are equal in all things. ALL things.

Only one thing truly separates us, how we use our minds, and thats not a gender issue - thats ME vs the rest of you slugs.

I'm all for it, that's like saying "Should men be allowed to bake?"

Or like saying "white men can jump" eer

when Baking becomes a contact sport....then you can compare the two.

Of course, i must be wrong because Lil, Zero, and Silv have all actually played football. and I'm sure you all realize i mean the American version.

Right?


Like I said, lower level is fine...but when you step up to a professional level. The difference in stature amongst men and females DOES make a difference.

No, You must be wrong because your using a "we are mostly stronger so therefore" argument to paper over your fundamentally flawed supposition. And now you are back to "if you dont KNOW the game then STFU" argument... where have I heard that before?

Try to read what i'm saying and argue the point if you can, because i'm tired of trying to address your BS as if it's a reasoned argument rather than a long droning string of nothing that ultimately still adds up to nothing.

You dont tell a flyweight boxer he cant compete because of the heavyweights - It doesnt matter what damn sport you are talking about, the argument is nonsensical. You could say to any teenage kid "you failed the tryouts, you dont have what it takes to make this team" but not "No - because you are a woman."

If a girl can play on the same level as the males on the team, and has more skill then the men trying out for the position she is trying out for, then I don't see why not.

They should not get special treatment though. A woman should have to pass the same exact standards as a man if they wish to play, if not, then tough shit, they shouldn't be playing.

most definitely they can, what kind of a question is this

congrats! you're putting words in my mouth and accusing me of an arguement that I never made.

You know...somewhere in the world....political correctness doesn't fly.

On a football field....it doesn't fly.


You don't like it because i'm saying it "how it is." and all you're thinking about is "how it should be."

Yes, a woman should get all the rights that BackFire has just stated above. If she is better, more athletic, good enough...whatever way you want to put it....THEN she can play with the boys.

On a professional level...you AREN'T going to find a woman like that. Sorry the truth ruins your idea of a perfect politically correct world.

I flip the channel whenever females doing any kind of sport on tv, I just have no interest watching women sports, not even beach volleyball.

females can play football all they want, toward teams of their own gender. I know I aint gonna watch it.

well over here, football is split into men and women's division...

so i'm sure if you can find enough girls, then they HAVE to start up a girls side.

but i'm not sure if the regulations allow for mixed games?

women don't want equality....they want special treatment.

If women are equal, then why do they have women's sports? If we're the EXACT SAME then why not have one league with mixed genders?

right Zero? No difference? Please explain to me the point of having seperate leagues for females and males.

"We are equal in all things. ALL things."

only some are more equal than others right?

the only way to have it if females wanna do the same sports as men.

ok whos been reading "Animal Farm" lately

not lately....but that is where I got that comment from.

i'd like a source for that statement, please

because there was obviously some study done where 100% of women said that

the only reason why there are seperate leagues, imo, is that some guys are too afraid to find out that some women can be much better than them

I think your friend is cool for making an issue out of this.

Ok Zero I loves ya, you know I do, but if you think that men and women are equal in all things then I have to disagree. There is NO WAY women today can even BEGIN to compete in football at the Pro level unless maybe its as a place kicker, and even then, I've seen those guys get drilled into the field.

The whole women's movement, quite frankly, makes me want to puke sometimes. I am all for the equal pay for equal work, and voting rights etc., but there are some places women keep trying to ingratiate themselves in the male world that quite frankly that have no business being in.

I read an article a few years back about this womens spa that had a man try and join their ranks. Let me tell you these women screamed bloody murder. Now I ask you whats the difference between that and women trying to get into certain male places? Not a damn thing.

I am in no way saying women belong in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, but they don't necessarily need to try and push their way into everything that is currently 99% male all in the rights of equality. I hate to admit this but I laughed my ass off when that gal left the Citadel and I don't for a minute buy her claims of horrible treatment. It was the freaking Citadel for god's sake what did she expect?

I'm just saying you cant be all butch and still expect to be treated as a lady and I for one prefer to be treated as a lady, which is what I am.



PS Milla:
FOOTBALL DOES NOT SUCK!!!! nono

Perugia was going to sign a female player

now THIS is what I really do disagree with

"I think most of you guys are going to say yes and that is right.But at my highschool the coach there says no and no girls are allowed to try out for the team.
Becaue of this my friend who is a tom boy is starting a protest againt the coach."

your friend isn't even doing it for her love of the sport she's just doing it so girls have the right to try it out... whats the point if she doesn't even WANT to play?

i mean, you don't see me arguing with the manager of La Senza to hire me, because it's obvious why they'll never take me (as in, no girls would buy their bras, just throw them at me )

i'm assuming you're talking about pigskin football. i'm gonna say yes at this one. since women want equality, so be it. but don't be bitchin' and moanin' when you get clobbered by a linebacker 2 times as big. you wanna stomp with the big dawgs, you gotta play with the big dawgs.

Let me ask you something. Have you ever been to a high school football game? If so, have you ever seen a single girl playing on the team? What your coach is doing is not uncommon. Girls don't play american football in schools. Whether or not this is "fair" is up to the individual, but I honestly have never heard of a girl playing tackle football with the boys. Again, I'm sure some girls are capable of doing so, but you act as if the coach is oppressing you. Your friend was stupid to think she could try out for the team in the first place.

So, I believe that if women/girls are just as capable and athletic as men/boys are, they should be allowed to play with the male teams. But I still don't understand why your friend is so upset that she couldn't try out. It's not just your school that does this, it's every public school in the country.

She just wants to play because seh loves football the only thing that is making her protest is that the coach wil not l et her try out.Thanks for responding guys.
Also I will let you know what happens.She and some other girls are going to the big man tomorrow for a meeting.Wish them luck!JM

Which is great, but EVERYBODY knows that football, at least as far as public schools go, is a guy's sport. That's just the way it is. If she wants to play football that badly, she should try to form a girl's league or something, but getting pissed at the coach for not letting her try out for the team is ridiculous.

Women should be given the opportunity to try out, but they should obviously be held to the same standards as men. The coach of a team is looking for the best players possible. If one of them happens to be a woman, then there's nothing wrong with that.

Looking at the world realistically, there are more physically strong men than there are women. However, there are plenty of women in this world who can make the grade. The opportunity to try-out is what should exist; Nothing more, nothing less.

We're not talking about "affirmative action" for sports. And of course, the reasonability of each individual's chances must be considered.

i wanted to be on the eighth grade football team, but A) coach wouldnt let me, and B) my dad wouldnt let me to begin with cause he thinks ill get killed.
but i didnt protest it because the boys arnt allowed to be on the volleyball team

if u can show me a woman whos good enough, then great. but this whole thing "we're equal in everything" is bollocks. pure and simple. if it was true you would have womens teams in the nfl. But there aren't. how many contact sports have womens teams at the same standard as the men?

as for equality. recently here in ireland there was a court case about a mens only golf club not allowing womens members.

of course thats wrong, but how many womens only clubs get away with not allowing men in? too f*ckin many. so a lot of women really need to think about equality before they start preaching.

gender equality is not a one way street.

Too many people misinterpret "feminism" as "women should get to do the same things as some men no matter their natural ability level." Really, feminism is equal rights for both sexes, which also means not setting a double standard. In other words, if women can keep up with men at something they are naturally better at, then great, and vice versa. But what's stupid is when women expect it to be easy for them to get onto a men's team or something.

true

let them try it out but the boys should be held back while tackling

I really see no reason why a girl shouldn't be allowed to play any sport a boy can. Of course it depends on the situation. If it is professional comp, then they should be allowed to try, and of course the most skilled should get first preference. But I see sport as something that is meant to be fun, and wrong if you have something where one can say "oh, this is a guys sport" or "no. only girls can do that. Here in Australia we have mens and womens netball, both professional and for fun. Four types of "football" (soccer, NRL, GridIron, and so on) and as far as I know if a girl was good enough she might be able to play professionally, or at least be part of a womens league. Personally I can't see the attraction of football, I am more of a fencer, and in that sport at least girls are often better.

Exactly. You'd think that was obvious and undeniable.

hmm missed out what I really meant,

it should be
let them try it out, but the boys shouldnt!!!!!! be held back when tackling

They should only be allowed to play football if thy are willing to swap shirts at the end, hell i'd go and watch.

people should be able to do whatever they want - within reason

ALLOWED?
Sure, who's to disallow anyone to do sports?

BUT... let's face it ladies and gentlemen. There's a reason why we have male teams and female teams. Girls may have more stamina, but guys are stronger - generally.
Should I want to join a male football team, the coach should demand of me what he demands of the rest of the players.
Or some sports-experts should figure out what position would be best for men and which would be best for the women. I don't see the reason to not try mixed-gender teams. Some women are stronger than most men, some men have more endurance than most women.
It should be judged on a case by case basis. Our bodies are built differently, which is why I still sweat like a loon when doing push-ups, but not when I do sit-ups and "back-ups".

Equal rights - yes. But not special treatment. If a weak petite guy wants to join the football team the coach is just as likely to say "no" as if it was a weak petite girl or someone with no legs!

Oh but it does, it sucks with passion.

JP, sorry to do this to you, but what you said about is a lot like saying - well black people cannot do certain things because white people are better at it thereofre they shouldnt stick their noses there - obviously utter bullshit.

We are all equal - or at least we should be. What is really ironic is that you say you are all for equal pay, equal work and voting rights, when it is the ''Sisterhood''(the first feminist movement) that brought this for us in the first place.

women should be allowed to try out for the football - why shouldnt they? They should play it if they are capable of it - of course they should. And anything else a female wishes to try out - she should be able to.

Another note - femenism is about equality between women as well as men - not all women are equal, because not all women are same class, same sexuality, same colour..etc. Same goes for men. Its also about power relations between people and genders. Femenism is all of that and all other bits and pieces, not just ''women have to be equals'' - sorry for a rant, but it pisses me off when people talk about femenists and femenism without actually knowing what it is.

Wait a moment, are you trying to oppress me because I have no legs?

The only way we are ever going to breed out the keening howls of the tree swinging low-brows who think that it's perfectly acceptable to talk in terms of "letting women" do anything (as if it's something that anyone has a right to allow or disallow) is to take the first obvious steps.

No more male/female division at a pro-competitive level.
No more female/male world record.

Compete as an equal or dont compete at all, thats the only way that missing-link and his pack of monkeys is ever going to understand the difference between equality and mere "winning"

missing-link? woahhh!!!! cool guy.

The guy's point is so weak he has to resort to petty name calling.

If you break down the gender barriers, then there wouldn't be women in professional sports. YES, that is a general statement, and I'm sure there are acceptions to it, but IN GENERAL, sports teams will be comprised of almost entirely of males.

Then when women see how completely unfair it is for one team to have only one girl where the other team has none....you're going to get rules put in place requiring a mandatory number of female players per team. Just to be "equal."

good theory, difficult to practice.

lame, compete against your own sex or dont compete at all.
I like the women to be the feminine contribution on this planet, dont wanna ruin it with women competing togehter with men. I think women would loose their femininity if they had to compete on a male level.
As of today it couldnt be done in Football(soccer for you yanks) since the level they are at are lightyears appart.

i think that all genders should be able to play sport together the american ladies soccer team for example are an excellent team why not let them play against guys this isnt the 1950s people although there are some games that are to violent for guys to play against women like NFL, rugby but games like soccer is very little contact allowed nowadays anyway so let them play doubt they will get in the team before the likes of the zidanes and ronaldos as someone said earlier but hey give them a chance at least.

It seems to me that the main argument is that girls suck at sports. If women are really all that bad and men are better, then why not let the league be open to everyone? Then when women try out for the team they won't make it because they suck, not because they are women. If males are really so much better at sports, then we don't need a rule saying females can't compete. Let them try all they want, and then if don't make the team it is a personal failure instead of the dismissing of a gender from certain activities. Then if they do make the team, they are obviously good enough to compete on the same level as men are, and they won't be a weak link. If they are a weak link, they get cut from the team. Simple as that. That way there is no discrimination and no "affirmative action" in sports.

maybe it would be stupid question..
but why do girls want to play football?
to get bruises? or what?

he he

but then the equal right laws strike in, they have to have females on the team because of yaketi ya. .........No keep them separate, women keep to theirs and men to theirs just as it is today.

Women belong in Football......as long as they are Cheerleaders.

yeah, thats the equivalent to not letting guys be cheerleaders there's a reason for it

there are guy cheerleaders

That is an extreamly sexist thing to say WD. Frankly I never expected it to come from you. Weak and dissapointing.

Maybe for the same reason boys want to play it?

as are there female football players... but no one cares about the ones not doing what society sets out for them to do

No one pays attention to them.

and what is their reason?
to get bruises?

sports are fun and keep you fit

but there are more safe sports

Maybe the love of that sport? Because they enjoy playing that sport, because they enjoy competing?

Its a silly question - why does anyone play sport.

should have been safer bag


myabe the thing is that i don't like those kind of sport, games and so on

Maybe they want to be millionaires. Maybe they want a scholarship to college. Maybe they want to boost their own ego.

yeah, because women can earn million playing football, can't they?

...or is it that women being as good as them frightens and threatens some men?

I doubt highly there are very few women as good as men at American football...

.Lil thats not what I meant at all. Look if some gal wants to go out and get her ass drilled in the ground than fine.....but she'd better be able to pick her ass up out of the ground and be set for the next play. I am speaking PHYSICALLY, women arent built to handle this type of punishment. Its a matter of genetics for the most part. I used the term feminists because the word I generally use isnt very nice. I dont go by political correct terms, hell I dont even KNOW the politically correct term is, but I DO know that even tho I stand by what I said, that shouldnt make you think less of me any more than it allows me not to think less of you because you feel very differently than I.

There is no current professional women's football(american) league right?

not one with a salary anywhere that of men's, no....

Exactly! When I say "Football" that means NFL. Now, if you're talking "Football" as in "Soccer" that's a different story. Soccer is a sport for both sexes. Even if you play Professional. But as far as Football.......no.

A good salary for sporting events comes with the popularity of said sports, the reason women atheletes are paid less is because their are very few people who are into womens sports.

The most popular one is probably womens basketball, and that's just used as a substitute for the NBA when it's not available.

BF> yeah, sponsors wont pay big bucks if no one watches it

WD> In England, no one cares about women's football (soccer, to you yanks) and its the men that get the money useful fact: the women's FA cup was women by arsenal last year

Sorry, Zero, I don't quite get the coherency of your logic there. We all agree, I hope, that equality is mostly about equality of opportunity- which is to say, all females should have the same opportunities as all males. Both genders should have the same opportunities to try out for, for example, a football team, and it is merely biology that gives more men the chance to fulfill that opportunity, as opposed to sexism.

So following on from that, as you say, we don't tell featherweight boxers they cannot box becuase there are heavyweights. That would be silly.

So surely by extension of that logic, why would be possibly deny the opportunity for women to compete in their own relevant areas in sport? As Link says, lump it all together and that will simply lead to the removal of women from nearly all competitive events that require physicality. As we know, biological fact is that they don't have the same potential as men do in these things.

It strikes me that to deny them this opportunity to compete at the appropriate level will simply destroy the deserved aspirations and hopes of many skilled and talented people. Look at tennis- who wants to deny that Navratilova, Graf, Seles, the Williams sisters etc. are just as skilled in their disciplines as McEnroe, Becker, Lendl, Sampras etc. Their games are very entertaining- heck, some of the woman's games are WAY more fun than the over-powered men's game. And sometimes not. But only this gender seperation- again, an inevitable result of biology- makes it possible for anyone to be interested in Women's Tennis at all, and watching these skills- because as we know from mixed games, men tend to destroy more skilled female opposition.

So if you ask me, equality of opportunity demands gender seperation at the point at which it is simply not physically possible for women to compete with the men any more, else opportunity to play at the top level is being denied to women, and that is the same logic as different weight classes in boxing.

yeah, why don't we just mix the 7-9 year old sunday leagues with the 21+ year old adults, so everyone's equal

I'd would have welcomed females in our footy team; back in the days when I was still playing that is.

Bath-time would have been much more fun.

No, I don't think females mingling with male players in football would be appropriate. Perhaps females only football at most, but definitely not together.

This is a contact sport and although there is mixing in wrestling (at least from the high school level in some places), this will prove dangerous to women. I can see this leading to possible groping and other forms of conduct on and off the field.

Also, I remember hearing in the news about two female football players who got raped by players off the field. One was a kicker, but I can't rememeber the other one's position.

no

Same here. The only reason soccer became so famous here was because of Mia Hamm and the olympics. The so-called WNBA (Women's National Basketball Association) is doomed to fail. Very little fans or lack of interest.

So then whats the problem? Just because they prove to be as good at something as men it doesnt mean that they will turn into them...

Unless 6'2'' 250lbs women start sprouting up all over the place, women aren't going to get into (American)football. Sure, let them try out, but when they go home with a permanant limp, they can't complain, they're the ones that wanted equal treatment.

to match the men in sports they have to loose whatever left of their femininity thats the problem.
And in Football(soccer for the yanks ) they will never reach the level men are at in our lifetime.

femininity is not an absolute, it keeps changing. once trousers were terribly masculine, now they're worn by both women and men. once it was consider masculine to wear wigs and powder. now it isn't. what's to say a female football player's not to become feminine? as I see it, the only thing that defines femininity's that a big enough amount of women is doing it.

its not natural for woman to be seen phsically knocking the crap out of each other..still, if they wanna play the game then ive got no problem with it

Certainly if they're idiot enough to want to, I steer clear of sports though.

take a look at the female football players of today the way I define femininity is that woman actually look feminine and have feminine gestures/movement....the grace that surround women

and what is feminine gestures/movement? not the same as it was only some years ago. it changes.

They're probably sitting in front of their computers waiting for Mr Zero's rebuttal....

it is the graceful way women move

Male cheerleaders are all over the collegiate levels.

Guys get scholarships just for being the ones that throw the girls in the air and suspend them using only their hands.

In professional sports cheerleading isn't a competition....it's like a fashion show. Where there are only females and generally they are very attractive. It has almost nothing to do with their actual skill, and almost everything to do with their level of sex appeal.


And based on some of the marathons where those guys from Kenya and South Africa come in first place....I'm inclined to say that males are better, if not much better, marathon runners. Perhaps females bodies are better at handling the conditions and abuse of long distance running....but the males are generally faster.

dont see why men should have to deduct their level down to the level of women. It aint so much about the masculinity of men cause it is there naturally, it is about letting women be women.

what if the women is crippled or retarded

then they are crippled or retarded

Thats utter bullshit and you know it. Of course you need to have a skill to cheerlead - you even need to have a skill to do a fashion show, while we're at it.

I hope you are a. speaking from experience and b. have photos you will show me of yourself doing one there, Lil...

For purely academic purposes of course.

Thats because it was incoherent and inconsistent.

Boxing is a bad example because it already allows its "weaker / smaller" aficionados to avoid competing with the "best" boxers. I'm not saying i agree with that, it was just convenient to use it as an illustration. I still maintain that equality isn't going to be the norm 'till the notion of womens teams/mens teams is abolished. Not a popular POV - even amongst feminists.

However I maintain: If a sport can be won primarily because of greater body mass and muscle rather than skill - then it's not much of a sport. If having less women in professional sports is a result of that, but the effect is that the cause of sexual equality is furthered, so be it: I'm sure the WSPU would have thought the loss of the odd televised game of tennis rather a small price to pay.

DOWN to the level of women? Can you hear what you sound like?

I think your way might have better grounds with team sports than individual events.

With things being about physicality... well, it may be a shame, but in the end, when people go to see a long or high jump, they are after the people that jump the highest and longest! There is no real gender equality way around that one, and frankly I think it is of more harm to women to remove them from the equation so. As I say, equality of opportunity demands the segregation; I really don't see the equality cause being served by that idea, I am afraid.

I was never a cheerleader, no. I was the one playing the sport.

I meant the fashion show!!!

Oh right.

Never done that either - I always hated being praised for the way i looked. I preferred people loving the way I think.

about certain sports it is the truth regardless on how it sounds, maybe if you looked at what it was a reply too it might not sound all that"can you hear what you sound like".

You mean that big beautiful sexy brain of yours, huh?

(does that count as doing both at once?)

actually it's not utter bullsh!t.

At the college level there are all sorts of competition. There are actually events typically called competitions where large numbers of schools compete by performing their choreographed routines against other schools.

At the professional level, there are no such competitions. There aren't nearly as many high risk acrobatic maneuvers. Actually, during timeouts most cheerleaders perform dance oriented stuff as oppose to tossing and tumbling. Where as in college you are more likely to see girls being thrown into the air...and stuff like that.

I think there was a little misunderstanding in interpretation...no biggie. I would never say cheerleaders don't have skill or athleticism, because they most certainly do. There just, generally, isn't the degree of competition at the professional level in comparison to the collegiate level.

There is no reason females should not be able to play football. It is more tame then rugby and my high school had a female rugby team.

M'eh... it is their choice.

I think the best way to deal with women's sports is to have a strictly women's league, and if a woman is very, very good and able to compete on the same level as men, allow her to try out for a men's team. "Equal," maybe not, but at some point we have to realize that most women are not physical equals with men. Hence there are different levels at which professional male and female atheletes are expected to perform.

Not necessarily. The cheerleaders at my school suck. Apparently if you're a girl all you have to do to make the team is know how to do a cartwheel. Then again, most of the cheerleaders are also ugly rich girls who wear too much makeup. So cheerleading isn't always a fashion show, nor does it always require skill. Very often, it just sucks in every way imaginable.

http://files.bbboy.net/CoolBlonde/Mannequin-closeup.jpg Do any of them wear spraypaint?

I was not debating for a single moment that it was very skilled, Omega... I just want the pics...

Ush>

Sorry, I never got any - so here's one of me in a 1920's outfit instead.
(Nods slowly, the continuity should be obvious to anyone)

Hot damn, that'll do...

I don't think anyone disagrees with that, and its not really whats being discussed.

Fact is muscle/mass gives a huge advantage in a physical sport like Rugby or American football. And is something that is taken into account of when selecting a team.

If you think your going to distract us from our arguments with such an obvious cheap ploy then you are very much hot. I mean mistaken.

no I dont find women inferior to men but in football(soccer fo the yanks) there is a huge gap in skills. If you look at a womens game of the National teams. Lets just say Norway and Denmark since they are among top 6 in the world (the others are USA, Brasil, Sweden and Germany) the pace the technique the entire thing around the game even if they are some of the best teams in the world is just torture to watch compare to a mens game at the same level. For one who has been around the game as long as I have the level the woman are at are galaxies apart form the level of the men, and the females that makes up these teams have been playing al their lives, just as long as the men that makes up todays teams have . Dont get me wrong I dont see women as inferior to men as a whole just that in certain areas of sport there is a huge gap. The quote I had with men deducting their level down to women was kind of a joke though, just to turn the heat up a bit

eeh what I tried to say was that femininity of women are natural so let them be natural too hence let women be women. Some sports are very anti feminine sports, American Football, Boxing aint sports that bring forth the feminine features of its participants.

I am not against women doing sports, I just say I dont see the reason why it is a must that they move in and want to play football (both American and Soccer) with the men. They have a womens league of football so if they aint satisfied with that well then quit.

only as long as women move gracefully, will moving gracefully be regarded as feminine.

anyways, can't see why a woman moving perfectly gracefully shouldn't be allowed to go bunkers on a football field. if you don't like to watch her doing sports, just go out and meet her on a friday night instead.

Not all women are feminine.... in fact there are some very butch women out there

true.

besides, sports really ought to be about results, not looks ( I know it's not like that in real life, but one can always hope). how a woman looks while doing sports should be irrelevant.