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YODA: Do not underestimate the powers of the emperor, or suffer your fathers faith you will...


When Yoda says this to Luke, Anakin must have attacked Palpatine at one time and got his butt handed to him, right? So far all the spoilers suggests Anakin just going along, never challenging or underestimating him. Anakin thinks Palpatine is just powerful and wants to be like him. Or is YODA a liar? Or will Lucas edit the OT in the future and delete this line?

well since Yoda duels Palps in ROTS*Confirmed* i guess he has first hand experience not to underestimate him

Can't wait for that showdown.

um... do you think by "fathers fate" he could possibly have ment.... TURNING TO THE DARK SIDE? dunno just a thought, before you all go jumping to conclusions.

When darth sidious/palpatine fights yoda he must use that lighting and it got to be more powerful than count Dooku light from attack of the clones so the he must findout in the bad way.

Your reading to much into the line, Yoda is speaking in reference to Luke, YOU must not under estimate the Emporer or you will suffer your fathers fate, which was turning to the darkside, he doesnt say Vader ever underetimated the emporer.

^^^^^^^ what he said....

What is power? Deceit, or Truth. Truth lives longer than Deceit.
Yoda lasts longer, truth is stronger.

Before you go and say Yoda died.... whatever, his word lived in Luke.

Luke seeks the truth, and Vader hasn't dropped from part of the truth/lightside of the force.

Sidious represents the belief in nothing. It is the never ending story.
Even in real life, if you believe in nothing, you will die from not having a direction. So I really think Yoda knows that over time, believing in nothing shows that death awaits you. Only at the end do you understand this, sidious tells luke.

If someone said to me, Don't underestimate that particular guy, or you will suffer your father's fate... I'd logically think, hmmm my father must have been beaten because he underestimated that particular guy. It's not "reading too much" or "jumping to conclusions" because that's what was SAID. Now supposing that Yoda meant that it was really the Dark Side of which Luke should be weary, then why didn't he just say that? Now if Yoda underestimated the Emperor and lost, then Yoda would have said, "Don't underestimate him or suffer the same fate as I."

I'm still hoping that this line does carry a little weight in Ep III... I'm hoping that Anakin tries to kill Palpatine but realizes that he is totally unmatched. I'm hoping Anakin just doesn't give in right away and slices away on Mace without having tried to take down Palpatine first. If he did take a shot at Palpatine, it would go a long ways for me to show that at least there was "good" in Anakin, some sort of conflict, anguish.

There is some good in anakin, even if it is the 2nd to the last hope, his son. Anakin's problem is that he falls into hate, losing communication with the light side of the force and falls to the darkside.

The point is, Yoda means that you shouldn't judge palpatine. Luke should focus on what he himself is thinking to do the right thing for the lightside of the force.

When Yoda tells Luke not to underestimate the powers of the Emperor, he's telling him that Palpatine is very good at the art of persuasion.

Palpatine is seen as fatherly and grandfatherly with his smiles to Luke and Anakin. Looks can be deceiving. In an old ROTJ book, Palpatine is described as such but that Luke shouldn't fall for it.

Further, he is being told that Palpatine has has exceptional powers in the Force that Luke has never seen. While he may look harmless and weak because he's old, Palpatine is quite a skilled fighter and force-wielder.

When Luke does focus on what really matters, his father's life, he basically does what is right.

Another word for persuasion is slavery. You are doing something because someone else told you and you do it without finding why, what, or how, or for what reason.

did yoda also underestimate the powers of the emperor

The power that Yoda is speaking of is the powers of persuasion. Anakin has fallen under the spell of Palps. He has been under his control from the beginning whether he knew it or not.

sorry. I just realized that this has already been said.

Interesting points all...
I myself had always read it most, that the psychological games that Palpatine had employed to goad Luke into anger and therefore onto a path to the darkside were the key to Yoda's warning....
Like the whole "Your hate has made you powerful" thing.
I think that while Anakin is fighting Dooku at the beginning, we will see Anakin receiving similar instruction from Palps possibly contributing to Anakin's beheading/dismembering of Dooku.(While the Jedi probably wanted him stopped and taken alive...)
The tactic of appealing to Anakins ego and impatience will almost certainly be brought out like we saw in AOTC..
Anakin was also most likely to be pretty impatient to save his friend Palps in the same way that Luke was to save Han, Leia etc in TESB...
Basically the whole scene at the time of the Dooku battle is gonna be eerily similar to the conclusion to ROTJ, except that the 'rescuer' character will fall for the tricks that Luke didn't fall for.
Luke threw down his 'saber where as Anakin will lose it and throw his right down Dooku's throat...!

Yoda'll know about how good Palps is at, as mentioned earlier, dueling: No win for Luke...
Corrupting/Convincing... Again,no win.
The old "It is the only way you can save your friends" one that Vader used may have been learned from that encounter where Anakin chose to save Palps with use of violence/Darkside which had corrupted him further as it would Luke...( Only Luke's compassion for his father kind of screwed the pooch on that one.
Dooku didn't have the luxury of the being Anakin's dad to save him from being killed, and It probably also didn't help having cut off Anakins arm in AOTC either... So it was probably real easy for Palps to get that hate flowing...)

This all would back up Obiwan's "I dont want to lose you to the Emporer the way I lost Vader" line to.... Not neccesarily 'cause of the force lightning torture bit, but 'cause of the potential in Luke to be manipulated in the same way Anakin was/will be....

Arragh..! Pipped to the post...! Sorry JediJunky... I didn't see you there as I was writing at time of your post....
Well said, that man...!

"persuasion is slavery."

what the hell are talking about!? so if youre wife or girlfriend "persuade" you to go to the bedroom with sweet talk or just an outfit, then she's enslaving you?

oh wait ok, so if you go t a Radio Shack and are "just looking" at cell phones, and someone shows you all the benifits of having a cell phone, then youre the salesman's slave cause you bought something that he suggested?...whatever.....

i think Anakin underestimates him, and thats what yoda meant. Why would Anakin, someone who DOESNT want to be controlled, want to jump right in to be yet another persons apprentice when he just recently became a full Jedi knight?...youre the one reading "to in to it", start talking about slavery is persuasion,...he never even mentioned anything remotely close to that.

I don't see how Anakin underestimates Palpatine in Episode III. (Unless Anakin actually attacks him.)
He and every other Jedi certainly didn't know Palpatine was a Sith until Palpatine revealed it himself(if you believe the spoilers) and when Palpatine does show Anakin the awesome powers of the Dark Side, Anakin wanted that. Then Anakin goes on the slaughter for Palpatine. He didn't needed to be persuaded since that's how he felt about power all along since Episode II. A greedy person doesn't need to be persuaded to take more money for free.

well all i can say is that none of us have seen the movie yet, so we dont know if he trys t attack, and fails, hence joining out of fear,...or if he just goes along for the ride.....but we will see in may wont we?

Do not underestimate the powers of the emperor, or suffer your fathers faith you will...

Yoda could mean, that Anankin underestimated the luring powers and the exploitive powers of the Emperor and his magnetism and thus faced the consequence of becoming a nastier, darker person, out of his own desire for power and his lack of patience, which in turn makes him turn to the Dark Side and transgress into becoming Lord Vader.

Power hungry,Greed, being impatient, destrutive, Seeking Recognition, all these traits are Anakin's demons and all these traits are answered and handed to Anakin by The Emperor and his manipulation of Anakin's weaknesses.

I also do think Yoda will face the emperor and I believe will have no choice but to flee, especially if it is 'not' a tete a tete.

"persuasion is slavery" I meant in the light of when someone wants you to do something and they have not seen exactly the terrible concequence it will bring by persuading that someone.

Persuasion isn't something the darkside should be doing, because the whole purpose is to lead death and destruction. So I mean "Dark side persuasion into death and destruction" is slavery.
The light side of the force shows their points informational, not persuasive. Yoda speaks from experiencing all the information.

Darkart99 that was the first explanation that made a whole lot of sense in that Yoda line -- without "reading too much into it." I would love to see Anakin get so angry at Palpy and get zapped. If Anakin does this, in my opinion, little sympathy can be built. It ties in beautifully with Jedi in which nobody was around to help Anakin when he was getting zapped. Man, hope that happens in ROTS....

sorry, but i agree with everyone else, penguiner.....suffer your father's fate refers to being fooled into turning to the darkside, the don't underestimate bit is like a seperate thought, aimed just at luke and not anything to do with a luke/anakin comparison.....

but if rumours are true there are other things that should provide the echo in rotj that you are looking for.....

really like that fan art poster arniehira, and i usually don't go much for fan art.....is it your work?.....

you saw all that emotion through his black mask? lol, just kiddin. anyways, i don't understand why everyone thinks vader had to be tortured into the darkside. its obvious even in the OT that cross over to the darkside was his choice, besides the fact that obi and yoda said so too. anakin was just naive and like alot of impatient people he hurried to make the wrong decision which makes his downfall more tragic because its was his own fault.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, jedi90. If it was Anakin's choice, though, I don't see how many people can also say that Vader is not Anakin anymore once he turned to the dark side. It's like saying if someone made a bad choice, he or she is not the same person they used to know. Anyhow, we'll just have to see Ep III if our speculations are true. It may be possible that Anakin does get tortured or it may not...

Yoda was referring to every one of the emperor's powers. The way he can manipulate you, and make you believe him, and earn his trust. Afterall, he was Chancellor and gave the Jedi many assignments over the years of the clone wars. Some of them probably trusted, or thought well of Palpatine during those times.

If Anakin were to have attacked Palpatine, he would have defeated Palpatine, because that is his destiny, the very reason the force conceived him and it is a destiny he cannot escaped even after becoming the terrifying Darth Vader. His purge against the Jedi, and killing the only thing close enough he could call father, (Obi-Wan) killing countless officers, still did not stop his destiny. Palpatine would have no chance if Anakin went after him in episode 3.

Anakin and Vader are two different people. The darkside absorbs your very soul, and gives you a surge of force power. Why else would Sidious look so disgusting? The darkside takes a huge toll on your physical body. You become evil, twisted and filled with a hate for everyone. When Anakin, the Star Wars Jesus, goes to the darkside, the amount of power flowing through him would be incredible and frightening and it will show that Anakin is dead, and Darth Vader is very much alive.