Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I have a friend who celebrates advant and I was wondering why this is celebrated?
When I was told that Christmas is a pagan hoilday and not a Christen one!Is this true?
Anyone care to post there thoughts on this?JM

many cultures celebrated that the sun turns, around 22 december.
christians looked at these cultures as pagan.
Advant is a thing celebrated by many of the chrisitan churches and it is the waiting period for the birth of christ. Advant is from the latin adventus domini, comming of the lord

Cool thanks for telling me Finti!jm

i don't understand the question cry
i've really tried, but i can't.
sowwie,
can someone tell it in my language?


coz i don't understand why christmas should be pagan holiday

read my earlier reply, it might help you to comprehend that bit

i understand your reply, but i still don't get that part.

ok many cultures(pre christian period) celebrated the turning of the sun around 22 of december, it is kind of close to the date the chrisitan choose to celebrate the birth of thier alleged saviour. It is called pagan cause christianity have labeled these culture as so.

many cultures celebrated that the sun turns, around 22 december.
christians looked at these cultures as pagan.
Advant is a thing celebrated by many of the chrisitan churches and it is the waiting period for the birth of christ. Advant is from the latin adventus domini, comming of the lord

What I am trying to ask is two questions.The first one is what is Advant?and the second is why is Christmas really a pagan hoilday.And Finsi had answeared both of my qeustions.
So what are your thoughts on this question?JM

it is clear

but it doesn't explain my quary (sp?)

this been bugging me, not just from u.... but why do ppl put the initials of their name at the bottom of their post? every1 can see who you are by ur screenname neway

this period of the year was celebrated by other mythologies and cultures before the chrisitans started to celebrate it, of course the other cultures had other names for it than christmas though. christmas is the chrisitan celebration.

I put my intals because it is my trademark.Sorry if it brothers you.JM

fair enough, was just curious since it has no real benefit

No you are right it does not.But every site as long I remember I always did that so I got use to it and now can't stop.JM

at last. thank you

JM: Yule is the most common name given to the old pre Christian tradition of celebration the wonder solstice on/near the 22nd of December. Its the shortest day of the year and so meant that Spring was "on its way" back. The resturn of the sun, the rebirth of the gods who died at the onset of winter. People would celebrate by getting together, making a huge fire and feasting.

When the Christian Church was trying to spread its word, it knew it would have real trouble getting all the pagan (non Christian) people to gie up the traditions they already had - so they placed Christian holidays "over" the pagans ones so they could say "keep on celebrating as you always have, but in the name of christ rather than your old gods"

Clever stuff.

actually the Norwegian name for christmas is JUL

Yea it is interesting stuff zero!Thanks for telling me this stuff I had learn something new today.JM

when the baptizers and preachers entered europe, they couldn't just destruct the entire religion that was here and needed things to build on to convert people, hence christmas become a christian holiday on the 25th

There's a similar sort of history for the Christmas Tree as well. Numerous races felt the days getting smaller near Christmas time, and feared that the sun would eventually vanish. But evergreen trees seemed to have magical powers that enabled them to withstand the tyranny of winter.

The Greeks were the first, cutting down the trees for the Goddess Adonia (who was resurrected by Aessulapius, a doctor so good at his trade he could bring the dead back to life). The first Christian story was that St. Boniface(675?-755) cut down an oak, a deciduous tree, and a sacred item to the Pagans, which fell into four pieces. In the middle, an evergreen tree was growing, symbolising the death of Paganism, and the establishment of Christianity.

another tale of how christians stole a symbol of others to take it as their own

Due my sucky computer and my recent inability to read Jackie Malfoy's intitial post, im just going to have to go by the thread title and what came up in the preveiw box (which wasnt anything worth replying to)

ok, since when was Christmas a pagan holiday? Christmas (as far as i have heard...do quote me on this) came about as a holiday clebrating the birth of Christ Jesus. Advent (the four weeks before Christmas Day) and supposed to be a time of penance and preparation, preparing for Jesus's birthday.
see, there are four candles on an advent wreath:
purple -penance
purple -more penance
pink -oh ya! this is supposed to be a happy time! :^D
purple- ok, one more week...penance

the only reason i can think of as to why you might think christmas is a pagen holiday is because practicly everyone christian or not celebrates it. the giving present part of Christmas came about because of the three wise men when they game the baby Jesus insence and stuff. Athiest people may celebrate Christmas, you'll never here them admit it, but they're celebrating a Christian holiday.

finti, I can go and look up my prof middle-ages to give a complete rundown on what they stole

nazzie > it is because it's NOT originally the birth of jezus, they just changed it to fit the pagan holiday

no, the egyptians were first.

im confused now.
what was Christmas originally used for then?

From the previous page...

In a very vague nutshell:

Yule is the most common name given to the old pre Christian tradition of celebrating the winter solstice on/near the 22nd of December. Its the shortest day of the year and so meant that Spring was "on its way" back. The return of the sun, the rebirth of the gods who died at the onset of winter. People would celebrate by getting together, making a huge fire and feasting.

When the Christian Church was trying to spread its word, it knew it would have real trouble getting all the pagan (non Christian) people to gie up the traditions they already had - so they placed Christian holidays "over" the pagans ones so they could say "keep on celebrating as you always have, but in the name of christ rather than your old gods"

it was at first a pagan celebration, celebrating the shortest day of the year (I don't know the correct english term)
when the preachers came to europe, they couldn't totally destroy that religion because no one would accept it like that.
So they went and incorporated certain elements of that pagan religion into christianity and they picked that celebration to get changed into christmas

oh ok, that makes more sense

Think about it, what does burning a log, eating, kissing under mistletoe, decorating a tree and Santa have to do with Jesus?

They are all non-christian traditions that the big C has overlaid with a veneer of Jesus worship. Fr instance - You put decorations on the tree to symbolise the fruit and bloom that will return in spring and summer, its sympathetic magic, calling to the old gods to bring back the sun for another year.

We heathens tend to stick with the romans on this - "Saturnalia,"

sorry, didn't see your post Zero

ah well, I'm too tired to think much about this at all

the yule log...i have no idea what that is for, im not even sure thats a Christian thing, its not a Catholic thing, I know that
Santa is an adaption of St. Nicholas who supposedly left presents in childrens shoes that were by the front door on christmas. the coming down the chimney thing i beleive came about because he would throw sacks of gold through an open window and they would land next to the fire place. somthing like that...
mistle toe i think is a recent commercial thing made up by super markets...i dont think it has anythign to do with Jesus...could be wrong though...probably am wrong

I thought the only 'official' legend of him was that this guy killed three girls, cut them in pieces and hid them and that Nicolas revived them?

and another that he gave money to the poor or something? have to recheck

Strange but some parents will not tell the kids about santa because they are afraid that then the kids will not believe the reason is that Jesus was born.
I think that is someting to do with Santa and jesus.But I too could be wrong about that too.JM I never was told about santa as a kid.My parents did not want to lie to me so I never believe in him.JM

Coincidentally - my parents were the same with me about Jesus.

Now Finti... Just about every modern religion has done this at some point or another. As un-Christian as I am, it's not really fair to be angry at them for doing that when it's a very common thing.

you're right, every politician uses lies

aint angry at them at all, just telling the facts

Christ wasnt even born in December.

what does a fat man in a red suit with a white beard who delivers presents to good little boys and girls in a flying sleigh have to do with Christ?

dont know, this christ due mess up xmas

Easter is like that, too. A pagan holiday converted into a christian one.....

easter was celebreted by the jews as passover (commemorating the freedom and exodus of the Israelites)

Didn't they use a deciduous tree? A palm tree to be precise? It's not very Christmas tree like unless the tree can resist winter. They're a borderline case. The Greeks were the first to do what I talked about, find a tree that could resist winter, and celebrate with it.

Yeah cause Egypt is such a snowresort

there is always a startpoint somewhere and some would place it with the greek and some with the egyptians

Actually, the concept of decorating a tree with lights came from Germany (at least with pine trees) as I recall.

guess the Egyptians and Greeks had difficult hanging their lights on the trees

1st of advent today

hmm 1st of advent was on last sunday here in Norway

???
I thought it was meant to be december 1st

here in Norway it is the last 4 sundays before xmas. To be able to make that happen one of the Sundays have to be in November unless xmas eve falls on a Sunday. We celebrete xmas at the 24th not the 25th.
So for Norway it starts on the 4th Sunday in advance of xmas eve, actually I thought that was the same for all western churches.

advent starts on dec 1st here (i think), as advent calenders start from dec 1st

Advent and advent calender aint really the same. Advent is the church thing for the waitng period while the calenders is for childrens.
I use to live in Arkansas and at least there they celebrated Advent the same way as in Norway

oops. sorry. you were right about it starting 4 sundays before christmas.
I just got confused because advent calenders start on dec 1st

Arkansas and Norway? You get around finti........

Well Jesus knows...

Not Philosophy...moving...

Damn Victorians, what have they ever done for us?

Of course, the Bible actually forbids the decorating of trees... (Jeremiah 10...) The Yule log must be of oak, must burn for 12 days, and the ashes should be saved to light the Yule fire with the next year.... Oak because that is Thor's tree, and Yule is his birthday, 12 days as in one for each of the major gods and goddesses.... Christ was almost certainly born between April and September, as those were the times when shepherds in Judaea would be "abiding in the fields with their sheep"... Father Christmas and Santa Claus, as any English child will tell you, are two different people... originally presents were given on St Nicholas day (6 December)... this became confounded with the tradition that a pagan god (Odin to us) rode through the skies on the night of Yule checking on the generosity of his people... this God became Father Christmas, who originally wore green robes trimmed with brown fur and gave gifts of health and meat... then Coca Cola got hold of it and gave him a hat to replace his hood, confused him with Santa and dressed him in their company colours of red and white... which the poor guy has worn ever since.... such is the power of advertising...

not odin, the scandinavian folklore said that the cariier for Tor(thor) was one of his goates, this was in Norse called Julebukk (meaning Yulegoat) later this goat was the carrier for the yule elf, in Norse JULENISSEN, who made his rounds delivering presents and receiving his offerings of porridge. Yule was a celebration of the winter solstice and they praised the evergreens as a symbol of rebirt and life in the midst of the dark gloom and white/snowy of the winter

Just to go a bit further with my county`s folklore. The idea of christmas peace, in Norway it was during Yule work had to be reduced to a minimum, no wheels had to be turned cause that would show impatciense with the sun(great wheel in the sky) they called this time Jule fred (Yule/christmas peace) Neither bird, beast or fish is trapped shot or netted to withold the jule fred

dont know where you got that Odin stuff from kirk, but around the 6th of december there is a thing for Odin him being the master of the wild hunt riding through the sky with reindeer followed by 42 supernatural huntsmen.

There is indeed... I'll agree about Thor, but here in England we had stories of odin riding through the land on sleipnir around Yule, after leaving his brothers in charge of Asgard.... that's Vili and ve of course... they weren't as generous as good old Odin, which is why we have autumn and winter, and Odin was worried that the hardship of winter especially would be too much to take... after punishing a couple of Kings and jarls for not showing him enough generosity when he arrived at their pads disguised as a beggar he was going to destroy everyone, but was stopped by the generosity of a poor farmer... taking to the skies to see whether generosity or grasping was inspired by winter, he had a good look around, and saw that most folk were gathering together and sharing their goods between them... so, instead of letting winter carry on, he went back to Asgard, kicked Ve off the throne, and became king again.... then he made sure to send winter every year, to encourage this generosity, riding out every Yule on sleipnir to check up on us... it is said that if odin once sees that the generosity has stopped, the sun will not begin to grow after Yule, but instead Odin will allow the Fimbulwinter, three years of sunless intense cold to begin... and with it, the Ragnarok....

yeah I got it a bit wrong I thought you ment Odin was the one delivering the presents, I didnt read your post good enough.

No worries, mate.... and in case I forget, Happy Yule from all us pagans over here...!!!

indeed so, God Jul.