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I thought this was a very interesting point as to why Dooku and Palps staged the whole kidnapping, when they knew perfectly well the Republic would win the Clone Wars. Was this a last ditch attempt?

plus i was wandering whether Dooku knew that Palpatine wanted replace him with Anakin. Did Dooku purposely loose? maybe Palps wanted to use Dooku as a pawn, to bring Anakin to the darkside?

your thoughts

they WANT the republic to win after all, the Republic turns into the Empire.

maybe it was an elaborate way to get the jedi to finish of Grievous? got me

I'm not sure that Palps and Dooku are on the same side at this point. I don't think Dooku has made the connection yet that Palps is Sidious. I do however believe that Sidious commands Dooku to kidnap Palpy. This is to set up the duel between Anakin and Dooku so that Anakin can kill off Dooku leaving the position of apprentice open for himself however unaware he may be.

Figure, Palpatine needed to find a way to get rid of Dooku, so Anakin could be set up to take his place, destroying much of the separatists in the process. Entice one of the Jedi to try to assasanate him (Mace), all the while luring Anakin closer to the dark side. Once Mace is dead, proclaim that the Jedi are traitors and need to be dealt with, but due to the huge security risks the republic needs to become an Empire with only one person in charge.....him.

OR He tells told Dooku that with this scheme, they could make like Palpatine was killed, throwing the republic in disarray, which in turn would give the separatists a huge advantage and probably victory over the Jedi and the republic. Out marches Sidious(who no one but Dooku knows is really Palpatine) who proclaimes himself emperor.

Either way, Palps wins this one.

But Dooku says "What if I were to tell you that the Senate was now in control of the dark lord of the Sith?" or something along those lines, in Episode II. So Dooku knows very well who Sidious is, and who Palpatine is.

As for the reason behind the kidnapping, I think this is how it stands:

Dooku and Sidious talked and Dooku thinks that with the ease of capturing Palpatine (since obviously he won't put up a fight if he's part of the plan), that'll create a crushing blow to the Republic, and will create disarray within their ranks and whatnot.

Palpatine on the other hand, knows that this will be foiled, and uses this as his chance to finish the war in certain senses, and test Anakin vs Dooku.

Grievous, has nothing to do with this. He's completely out of the inner plans.

He says that the senate is in control of the DLotS but he thinks that Sidious is Controlling Palps. IMHO of course.

maybe palps will talking to anakin to strike down dooku and all that jazz like he does to luke in rotj you know edging him on more

I think Grievous is part of this. Palpatine knows both Anakin And Obi Wan are going to come, but it would be very tricky to get Obi Wan away from Dooku to see if Anakin could defeat Dooku. So I think They gave Grievous a part to come in to get Obi Wan away from Dooku and let Anakin alone defeat him.

I'm sure Grievous has something to do with this. After all, Palpy is being held hostage on Grievous' ship in the first place.

LOL at thinking Dooku dosnt know Sidious is Palpatine

Hasn't it something too do with the fact that Yoda finds later in the movie finds out that if you kill the sith master the apprentice will die. Like the master gets somesort of life force from his apprentice. If Dooku kills pappy then he will die... Does he know this....

What! Is this some EU kind of thing?

I really hope he doesn't put that in the script, cause thats a horrible idea, and it'll make people think that whenever the master dies, the apprentice dies too and thats why Vader died in ROTJ...that's a horrible, horrible excuse.

What I meant by Grievous not having anything to do with it, isn't that he isn't involved at all, because that being his ship and him being the general of the droid army obviously means he is involved, but I mean Palpatine has no specific plan to backstab him or anything during this mission, its purely Dooku and Anakin.

It makes sense to me that Palpy planned his kidnapping, in order to lure Anakin to come and rescue him. As they are close friends, Palpy knew that Ani would be entrusted with the rescue attempt. From Dooku's perspective, this kidnapping plot allows Anakin to come and for Dooku to battle and finally kill him. (ala Clone Wars cartoon where Dooku hires Ventress to chase and kill Ani, under the orders of Sidious And Yes I know this isnt canon info) Dooku is jealous of the stature of Ani, because of his "hero" status he adopted during the war and wants him dead. Dooku doesnt know that Palpy has planned to get rid of him, by using Ani. Dooku believes that Sidious wants him to kill Ani. Dooku's part in Palpy's plan is over and now he must be gotten rid of. In order for the threat of the separatists to be over, the leader must die. Palpy figures that if Dooku lives and figures out he is being deceived, that he will spill the beans on his master plan for galactic conquest. The Jedi would interrogate Dooku and eventually find out everything they will eventually find out about Palpy being a Sith Lord.

why not keep dooku alive a bit longer and smash coruscant first. THEN let anakin kill dooku. bah. im confused. *falls asleep waiting for new ep3 info*

what i want to know is that if in the cartoons they are gonna make it look like a kidnapping... or if Palps is voluntarily going to get kidnapped since it is after all part of his plan...

Grievous does not lure Obi-Wan away from the duel. Dooku injures Obi-Wan, he is knocked out during the battle. Anakin kills Dooku while Obi-Wan sleeps. He will be in the same chamber with the others.

so wheres grievous? hopefully something will be mentioned in the 5 part comic lead in (which I have just purchasd part 1 - OBSESSION) . come on baby....

I think he flees the ship.

wimp. i hope obi wan kicks his a$$ so hard for that. just like anakin kicks dookus a$$ for the geonosian fight.

Personally, i dont think Palps cares who wins out of Ani and Dooku, and heres why...real simple.

Whoever wins is obviously better, hence Palps is better off WITH them. I think he'd like Ani to win simply because of his youth, but if Dooku were to win, i think he'd be happy just the same. Just how he wanted Luke to take Vaders place, but everytime Vader did a good move, he would laugh, knowing that if Vader won...he wouldnt really lose anything, Luke is just younger.

Very well put...

Yup, I agree.

And of course Dooku knows Sidious is Palpatine.

And of course Dooku knows Sidious is Palpatine.


or not

I think its good how in episode 1 and 2, the rebellion is seen as the bad guys, and both palpatine and dooku make sure that systems which turn against the republic are seen as bad guys and subsequently defeated. Then all of a sudden in episode 3-4, the rebels are seen as the good guys, but the members of the old republic remember the clone wars and the crimes committed by the early rebellion, and therefore they are against the rebels when it comes to episode 3 and 4

it's clever how palpatine knew that declaring himself the emperor would cause a popular rebellion, so he orchestrated the rebellions against the republic in episodes 1 and 2 to make sure that the popular opinion of the people of the repubic would be that the rebels are the bad guys. Then palpy becomes emperor and he has loads of support to fight against the rebels. And he gets a massive army to support him as well.
He's one clever guy

Has the unusual way Obi-Wan kills Grievous been proven?

ok ok, the reason he wants to get kidnappedis that he cant stand to be around jar jar anymore. He feels that if he has to put up with him any longer, he would go ape shit and kill everyone ahead of schedual.

btw...j/k

i think the whole dookoo-sideous,clonetroopers ......wait stop me if you heard this one before but is the reason the clonetrooper says were out of missiles to obi and ani upon being ordered to destroy dookoo a lie?
are they programmed not to kill dookoo
i think the whole dookoo in with sideous and all the stuff in episode 2 regarding their ties is a mess!

has anyone ever thought that dooku was using the kidnapping as a way to get rid of his master and take the helm of the sith master? I mean isnt it sith nature to want to take out thier masters. hell, even vader wanted palps in ep. 5 when he tried talking his son into joining him in taking out the old man.

heck I didn't even know the chancellor was kidnapped....fancy that. I guess I'll wait and see and hope EP III is good.

well they wouldnt be much of a sith if they were always loyal and were not hungry for more power, or if they were unwilling to use deciet to get to the top.

Remember when Ani chops off Dookus hands and Palpatne says kill him, do it! I thought the look on Dookus face was not the fact he was about to die, but the fact Palpatine betrayed him. I do beleive Dooku new who Palpatine was. And remember like the Jedi the Sith can see into the future. Remmber what Sidious told Grievous, "Soon I will have a new apprentice, one far younger and more poweful. So the kidnapping was to a) get rid of Dooku and b) lure Ani that bit more to the Dark side.
I think.

Yes. Well, that is it. Clear as rain.

I just watched ROTS for the 464th consecutive day and never noticed this.

Some of the user names in this thread......memories.