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Yeah ok I ripped this thread off of TFN, but it's a fairly new concept (I think) and we are getting desperate for spoilers.

Does anyone think its possible to turn Palpatine back to the light side? FI so, who would have the power or influence to do it? Was he ever even ON the light side? Assuming he's human he had to have been there to begin with one would think. And whil Im at it, Im wondering just what it was that made him chose the dark side? Discuss...

I reckon Qui Gon Jinn can only turn him to the light side.

Are being serious? I find that a little hard to believe seeing as he's rather dead.

JP, this is madness. Get your head out of the hypothetical clouds.

Yeah

It's a hypothetical question boys and requires you to think 3 dimensionally.

What if he was never to the light.

Ive wondered that, but that would mean he was never human wouldnt it?

I dont know, but if Lucas is using Anakin as a kind of quasi Jesus figure perhaps Palpatine represents the devil.

He probably started out as a neutral person and was introduced to the darkside. He's probably been with the darkside so long that it's all he knows.

I think it would be possible to turn him back, only very hard. In fact so hard that it would seem impossible, but everything is possible if u ask me. Unfortunately we will never know as we know how his life ends (if not the EU steps in and does something)

Ah but who has the power to turn him back? He hates Yoda & Mace.

Palpatine IS the Dark Side; He IS Evil. He can never be turned to the Light Side. Without Palpy, there is no evil in the galaxy and well, sadly, good and evil must exist for the universe to exist, otherwise BOOM!! the universe implodes on itself. And that would suck very much for us.

The only person who could turn him back would have to be someone, from his past for whom he cared for very much, for whom he probably lost in a horrific situation, prolly caused by the Jedi. That is prolly why he wanted revenge against them.

Nononononononononono.

No.

No.

No.

NO!

Absolutely not. NO revolving door policy. Anakin is the ONLY exception, and that is plot culmination of the whole of the entire story, the one-off totally impossible thing that happened because he is the centre of the whole piece, and even he died in the process.

Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny. One Way street, end of story.

Well Yoda was wrong about Anakin, so why not anyone else? If it forever dominates your destiny, then why did Vader go back? I think that as strong and powerful as Palps is, he's still weak minded to the force. I think the darkside actually controls him and wont let him be turned. From what ive heard, Palps was "bought" from his parents by a great Sith lord, after the Jedi tried to take him. His parents said no casue they had no money and werent about to give up their son. And when the sith lord came along, he tried sayin that the Jedi were kidnappers and gave his parents a lot of money, and thats why they agreed to let him take Palps.,...to eventually get even with the Jedi. BUT, i think if he were to talk with his parents or someone like that(who is prolly dead by now) they may be able to swerve him to the lightside...but no other way.

Except for that parents thing. This brings up a good point. Perhaps Count Dooku has no choice in losing to Anakin. He is commanded by Palpatine to fight him and he cannot go against his master.

Now see Palpatine cant have been forever evil as apparently he is human native of Naboo, and somehow I doubt he was born this evil. And what I wonder caused him to turn to the dark side?

The big question for me is, "How long has he been with the dark side?"

I mean, the question is : Exactly how old is Palpatine? Perhaps the answer to that question could reveal how he came to the dark side.

corn

I'd like that answer as well.

Wouldn't we all?

Palpatine, however he was introduced to the force, managed to cloud the entire light side, allowing him to forsee everything. His powers are beyond measure. And they come from the heart of the darkside, no one and I mean no one could ever turn him to the lightside.
The only reason Anakin turned back because he wanted to save his son, and Anakin's downfall was always letting his personal feelings get in the way.

Found by the Sith of course! The Sith corrupt everything and everyone.

But no, Palpatine could never be turned back. What Ush just said is true for the entire Star Wars universe. Vader/Anakin was an exception because the movies are ALL about him.

So if you accept that then was he already with the dark side we we first see him in TPM?

Did u mean: "So if you accept that then was he already with the dark side WHEN we first saw him in TPM?" JP?

If u did then I can't understand why u asks, of course he was with the Dark Side in TPM. We saw that Sideous was there so that's proof enough (if u ain't one of those who says that Palps is not Sideous).

No, no at the very beginning he was still a Senator from Naboo. Was he a Sith even then?

Darth maul didn't train himself.

JP, did you mean Anakin or Palps as far as the TPM sentence? Aankin--no...Palps--yes,just like Morridini said. Hes been with the Sith or at least the Darkside for quite sometime. You remember him talking with Maul right?

sorry,im on a frame relay right now....those other posts werent up when i wrote mine.

Of course he was a sith already then. He had to been training Maul for years (as tpaquin said), and remember that the whole blockade was his and we didn't see him prior to the blockade.

Ok I accept that, argh, having a difficult time making my point.........what I am getting at is WHEN did Palpatine turn to the darkside? Surely he wasnt born that way?

I refer you back to my original post in this thread. This is my 2 cents anyways...

The only person who could turn him back would have to be someone, from his past for whom he cared for very much, for whom he probably lost in a horrific situation, prolly caused by the Jedi. Then he finds out about the Sith and the rest is history. why he wanted revenge against the Jedi.

I very much doubt that Palpatine could be converted back to the light side. I think the whole point, as stated above, was that you cannot come back from the dark side, and that the only reason Anakin did is because he was the Chosen One, the prophecy had to be fulfilled, the will of the Force was behind him, and his love for Luke was too big as was his original feelings and his good intentions. I think Palpatine's character is meant to be so evil that there is no person in the galaxy that is more evil than him, therefore he would never want to turn back even if he could be saved.

Finally, a thread WORTH discussing!!!

As far as being born evil or not, I think each individual answer will reflect each individual's view on humanity. Some believe in original sin, others dont. I personally dont. I think Palps was probably born and raised (for a while) with normal human attributes (compassion, love, empathy, etc...). His own personal knowledge of such things would only serve him better as a darkside follower. I mean, you dont expect a priest to understand what its like to cheat on your wife do you? Its much more logical to ask a man who's 'been there done that' about such things. That's why Palps is so good at turning people. He understands their conflict and twists it to be used for his own personal gain. As to when exactly he turned, my guess would be adolesence. Isn't that when most of us get in trouble? You have no real fix on your values, beliefs, pasions & prejudices. It makes one extremely vulnerable to dark forces (exuse the pun). Just look at Anakin. He was a great kid & turned into a whiny teenager convinced that nooone understood him and eventually is turned. And the only one he felt did 'get' him, Palps. How convienient. I have no doubt that a different Sith Lord was waiting in the wings ready to turn Palps in much the same way. And yes, he was DEFINITELY already evil by TPM......

Oh, and I think Palps Could be turned, I just dont think he WANTS to be...big difference.

I don't think we have a thread anymore, I think you pretty much shut the book with that one lol

Why, thank you NoFate... You are most gracious!!!!

now we are going to have to go scrounging for another new idea WTG Bilb!

You'd rather I come up with some stupid fanboy BS?

oh HELL no

I thought as much. Sorry for spamming your precious thread with a well thought out and logical post. I'll try not to do it again, milady....

No chance in hell they can turn Palpy back. He is like the god of evil, and he'll always be just that.

Well, now he is SMX. But I'm sure that at some point during his very long life span it could have happened.

Its Sidious that needs to be turned not Palpatine. Palpatine does not exist except in the form the people of naboo percieve him as Senator (former).

Sidious is driven by personal power, and not a principled attachment to the ideals of the Old Republic. Think of him at the Stars Wars version of Caesar, or any number of aspiring presidential hopefuls. As a Sith ideologst sidious cannot be turned.

To me the names Sidious and Palpatine are interchangeable (seeing as how its the same person & all)

Frankly, I think the hows and whys of Palpatine are spectacularly irrelevant.

And again... he cannot be turned back. Hell, all Vader actually did was kill someone to save his son- as if that undoes all his evil thoughts and deeds in one moment? All Vader really managed to do was properly achieve his destiny, which gives him a good death and nothing else. And that was, as has been said, the one-off amazing climax-of-the-saga plot twist, and if people start applying this concept to the Dark Side in general they have equally spectacularly missed the point of that.

Again- 100% certain on this. No way back.

In a few words, "No, not really no!"

Nope not at all he is the leader of the sith.

One Word IMPOSSIBLE! He's Born With Evil Thats All

Somebody wondered how old Palps must be.....
According to the Episode1 Encyclopedia (on cd-rom) Palpatine is 50 years old in that episode, so in episode2 he must be 60, in episode3....well....count for yourselves peeps!
In episode 6 he is around 86....and very much a crumpy old Sith-geezer.
Don't think there is any possible way he could be turned, man, the guy rather gets successed by the ones who are going to kill him.
He wasn't born evil I hope....would be weard, force-lightning coming out of his moms ******-hole, while she screamingly gives birth to a molten ET with gleaming yellow eyes!
There is even stated somewhere(book/encyclopedia or something)...he was taken from his parents to be trained by a mysterious person!
The reason that he became a politician we'll find out very soon...actually, we all know!!!!!

Somebody else with thoughts on this?
THX and The force is with us! JM

Turning Palpy back to the light side would be the same as Yoda falling to the dark side. It just wouldn't happen.

Yoda turning to the darkside! Now that would be intersting!! Even if only in a luke sort of way like in rotj. But we know that can never happen as yoda os sort of the living embodiment of the light side of the force>

Wayne...

??????????


you're killing me JP!!!!

think three dimensional huh?.....yeah right this isnt the matrix you know!

turning sidious to the lightside would be like trying to turn Hitler into a Jew

Hitler was half jew........

You guys are getting a we bit pi$$y about this. It was meant to be a discussion not a 'get a clue' thread.
Yes, Sids is the embodiment of evil in the SW world. And all things considered it is highly unlikely that he could be turned back. However, dismissing the concept so quickly is narrow minded.
Wanna use Hitler as an example? OK.... ALOT of people believe had he been admitted to art school he never would have risen to power. Maybe, maybe not. The point is that there was a time where a man that most everyone would consider evil to the core might have avoided leading the world in war & committing such horrible atrocities had circumstances been different.

so....had palps been admitted to art school...there would be no empire?

All opinion with no facts but here is what i feel makes the most sense:

-Palps is human and ages 50-90 throughout the series
-Pals was not born evil but taken as a Sith Aprentice at a young age
-His evil is, but not irreversable, however why switch sides??? to gain something, and palps would have nothing to gain by becoming good, in fact he would have everything to lose!, same goes for Yoda becoming evil, nothing to gain everything to lose.

If Anakin was fathered by the Force, Why then couldn't Palps be fathered by the Dark side? I think he could have been born evil and his destiny is to die trying to destroy good forever.

do you think palpatine became a sith before he became a senator? or after?

What if he isn't human? He could just be "the sith" or something so purely evil like that. Just my two cents

way before
he was a sith apprentice as a child, much as the Jedi do with younglings

hahaha...my sig looks soooo cheesey!!!! oh well.....thanks PVS for the tip

did he train on naboo? dont you think they would hear about that?

My money would be on he was taken from Naboo when he was young, By whom? your guess is as good as mine. Then he was trained similar to how luke was trained on Degobah, one on one.

i hope he reveals all in the theater scene.

I think that would prolly be better done in the privacy of his office.

yeah, but what the hell is the theater scene gonna be about?

I agree in the office is when most will be told. I can see a full confesion to a soon to die Windu, leaving nobody to be the wiser, but the audience of course, perfect time for Lucas to reveal all that he wants, he may show restraint or he could reveal a world of information at this point. and of course this is the point where the Darth Moniker is given,,,,,, but thats a whole different thread

Oh Hush you smart @ss!!

Well everyone wants a well rounded Emporer. Who just wants one that kills everyone? pshhh...id rather have one that kills you, then paints a beautiful murel (spelling) of you for your funeral.

I have NO idea what you are talking about....

it was a joke sweetie.....art school....murels(if thats how you spell it)...emporer killing people....nm. but yea i was joking

just as long as sidious has his spinny chair he'll be happy.

LMAO Space!!!

"Hitler was half jew........"

whoa did not know...... what a hippocrit.

not to get off the SW subject, but hitler's mom left when he was young and he thought she didnt love him, and he had other people telling him stories like that(that all jews are bad and evil) which eventually led up to his jew slaughtering. So the same in Anakin's case, its sad the influence that other people have on you, can lead to measures like that.

so ani is a nazi....

yeah ok I'd rather we not take the thread in that direction even as a comparison please...

IT.....WAS.....A.....JOKE!

NO WAY!!! Palpatine can never be turned to the light side!!!

If Palpatine should represent something, he should represent Azag-Thoth or Kingu (leader of the hordes), 'cause these are great and powerful and Dark Creatures...

88 PALPATINE!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

If Lucas wanted a story about "trying to understand evil" and how "evil" can start out good, then Palpy must be given the same creds; therefore, Palpy must have a chance at redemption too. Geesh, if Vader can kill kids and be redeemed, why not Palpy?

Here's how:

If Obi could wait for years for Luke to grow up and have millions of death go on, why couldn't Obi wait another 10 years and have Luke truly master the force to a degree that's unheard of. If Luke was strong enough to beat the geriatric Vader and beat a near death Palpy with one finger, Palpy would have respected that... Cause Palpy only respects power. Luke would then use the mind trick and, pardon the expression, mind rape Palpy and find out why he turned evil and change the evil of his ways. Palpy would cry and say how sorry he was, and then he could be a force ghost and stand next to Yoda at the end.

Isnt the theatre scene going to be a homage to the GODFATHER wedding scene where all the Corleones enemies are taken care of ?

an assasination attepmt will be in that scene

you think so?

Well I don't think anyone is born evil. I think that everyone has potential to be good or evil. We all have choice in our lives. There is some good and bad in everyone, even if it's only a small amount of one or the other.

We just don't know the origins of Palpatine. Perhaps a Sith found him when he was very young and poisoned his mind. Perhaps if the Jedi had gotten to him first, he would have been good.

By the time of ROTJ, he had been assimilated into the Dark Side entirely so that he didn't have a trace of humanity left. By that point, I doubt anyone could have saved him. But I doubt he was like that his entire life.

It was Palpatine's destiny to be evil. His path was already set before him. I believe, regardless of who got to him first, there was no escape from his destiny. It was meant to be.

I doubt he was a jedi originally, because he was obviously a well-known senator with ties and such. To be honest, when i first heard mentiopn of the prequels by lucas on the interviews for the THX soup-ups of the originals he said that the story would tell about Palpatine's back story. I wasn't so much interested in his rise to power, but his fall to the dark side. I suppose it's not really about him, though, is it?

"you think so?"

yeah...sidious will be sitting in a balcony and i wouldnt doubt it if there would be an assasination attempt on him resembling lincolns assin. if you notice how the prequel movies resemble the american civil war in alot of ways what with the "seperatists"="confederates"...blah blah blah/.
so it would make sense if he threw that in there.

I thought the assassanation "attempt" by mace(as he called it) was in his office.

Yeah, it's in the office and Anakin should walk in and be like WTF? That's Mace whoa shite! Palpatine is a bad ass!

Not only is that storyline appalling... but your basic point makes no sense. Just WHY does Paly therefore have to have a shot at redemption? He most certainly does not. Part of the moral tale is that some people are just bad- period (which is why it is ok to kill them in large numbers), Anakin's story is specifically why a GOOD person would turn bad; that does not follow that all bad people can therefore become good, or were ever good.

so youre saying he was born evil?

Well, we have no idea about that, but I was just saying Anakin proves nothing in that respect. The entire saga goes to show what HIS deal is; it's not going to be the same for everyone else, and most likely anyone else.

"Not only is that storyline appalling... but your basic point makes no sense. Just WHY does Paly therefore have to have a shot at redemption? He most certainly does not. Part of the moral tale is that some people are just bad- period (which is why it is ok to kill them in large numbers), Anakin's story is specifically why a GOOD person would turn bad; that does not follow that all bad people can therefore become good, or were ever good."

From your point then, Anakin was good and became evil.
Palpy was born evil; therefore not redeemable.

Then it begs the question, was Palpy when he was a toddler evil????

Again, if Anakin can kill kids and be redeemed... why not Palpy? I would think that that would be just as despicalbe....

He prolly can, just theres no reason for him to turn....if he were turned good....no movie. But i dont think he was born evil, i think he was at one point good. But as far as kids go...what about Tarkin and the operator that actually fired the Deathstar on Alderaan? Im sure they murdered more kids with one shot, than Anakin did younglings. Are they not able to ever be considered good? I know theyre all dead, but if they hadnt died....would they be forever evil? Or does that not apply since thyre not prominant force users?

Darned good point there, Darth Subjekt.

And by the way, my story about Palpy being turned by Luke, was a sarcastic one since the Saga is so vague on moral issues. How evil Vader could go to Force Heaven is beyond me. So will he see Padme too in the after life, too? And if the Saga is about how evil could be turned, well, like I said, Palpy deserves a turn, because as the Saga portrayed Anakin, no one is born evil.

I thought this was a great thread.
What if Anakin could have turned Palpy from all those times with him.
Palpy: Let's destroy planets with the Death Star.
Vader: You know, destruction of a planet is not all that great... Remember when you mother told you not to---
Palpy: Damn my mother!
Vader: Come on, Palpy, this evil thing is so getting old...

If Vader could have turned Palpy, he could still have fulfilled the prophesy of The Chosen One...

Because Anakin is different from Palpy. And again, I am not saying Palpy was definitely born evil. But even if he wasn't, it does not follow that he can become good again. I dunno why people think that.

And incidentally, yes, the Force DOES make a difference to the good/evil thing. That is part of its risk.

The saga does NOT say no-one is born evil. It only says Anakin wasn't. That is not meant to be a general lesson!

Anakin fulfilled his destiny, that is his get out clause. It is not forgiveness for everything he ever did.