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SPOILERS!!!



....wow

it was soo amazing seeing the reaction of Eomar when he found Eowyn half dead at Pellonor, the passion was emmense and I just loved it.

I got mine yesterday at 2pm and watched it all. Havnt got to the apendices yet but I will in due time (cant today due to work).

Yup, had my feet up, lots of munch, 6 pack of beer and i was all the way.

It was worth the wait I must say.

Sorry i cant comment much on it just now I am a bit busy,

Hmm he starts the post with "spoilers" yet doesn't use tags O.o

where...is...the...mouth...of....sauron?!?!?!?! cry

ITS THERE

http://iesb.net/movies2/rotkdvdclip3.php heres a clip of the mouth of sauron seen

Mouth of Sauron totally rules, "dear to thee" lol, spoken like a true twit!

Paths of The Dead totally kicked ass, and the taken of the black ships:
"you and what army"
".....this one"

I am watching the apendices and it is shit hot, the proposal of having "sauron vs aragorn" is in it. haha

I actually love it. Does anyone know the song that plays when Aragorn is healing Eowyn?

Btw, I am compelled by it. As always, the EEs are 10000000000000 (x 1000000000000) times better than the normals I think it actually made me superhuman - I was walking down the street and people were talking about it and I kept sticking it in their faces and going "HA HA" and then laughing like an eejit...

EDIT

come on duders, the EE has been out for a mere 2 days and this thread is going the true tradition KMC LOTR style......down-hill!!

The Apendices totally rule, Tolkien had 3 best friends at school and one of his best friends was named Christopher Wiseman

I have yet to watch the 6th apendice but dont worry its on the agenda.

LOL, I can totally agree with your statement Naredhel, it did make us all feel superhuman. Not even if some maniac came in and started stealing your stuff you wouldnmt care because you were watching EE (but if they tried to steal the EE box then its ass kicking time!)

Sorry duder, I have yet no idea what song was playing in the houses of healing.

Another great EE was Denethor in the great hall with faramir. It was sooo amazing to see Sean Bean again in the movie and it just lit up my heart when Denethor looked past Faramir and said "my son" and we see images of good old Boromir!

Also the part where Pippin told Boromir "the mightiest man may be slain by an arrow, but Boromir was slained by many". That aint the exac quote so dont go with me on that one lol.

Damn I cant believe thats it over *shrugs shoulders*, no more kick ass movies so I guess that will be the majority of the forum leaving now seing as they cant be "bothered" to read the awesome books *cough*fools*cough*.

Sorry Discos, did you say ass kicking?

*pulls out Kiranga*

Let's go hunt some orcses

Ha!

I've not watched any of the other features yet - no time at the second. But I just love the new footage. As always, the EE's have substantially more depth to them than the normal films. I just wish they'd release the 6 hour version of RotK:EE

If they did, I would buy it!

"peirced by many...."

sorry... i just thought it was important...
enough to be nitpicky...

i'm such a nerd...

there is no such thing as nerdy when it comes to lord of the rings.

I have yet to watch the 6th part of the apendices due to my EE circulating round my friends at the moment.

I never knew there was a 12 Disc EE Trilogy....lol damn

Well, my friends and I are already planning our end to end EE video session... FotR:EE, TTT:EE and then RotK:EE... I cannot wait. Should be next week! You know it's just over 11 hours?

Im not a big LOTR fan but i gotta say the EE of ROTK is awsome!!

I will return the favour....*cough*

I cant wait for ep III !!!!!!

yes episode 3 will be amazing!

Anakin vs OB1 youpi
Yoda Vs Sid

okok, sorry im off topic lol

HOLY SHIT, war of the worlds

bless you speilberg

DAMN YOU SPIELBERG

He is trying to upstage Lucas

I thought the paths of the dead was an awesome sequence when all those skulls came pouring out of the mountain I have to say it is my favorite out of the three extended edition movies and the pelanor fields was amazing battle this time round I watched the appendices this morning and it is kinda sad to see that these films have come to an end but they are fun to watch.

lol, its just coincidence

WOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY speilberg

mace Vs Sidious now thats something to wait for!!


loll i guess im off topic also!

a friend of mine has a projector with which we're doing that...

Obi Vs ANAKIN!!!!

i can't wait!...sorry

oh yes the paths of the dead wiz pipping shit hot....however, I am glad they kept that to the EE. When I was watching the theatrical version in the cinema the hype and sheer excitement of seeing aragorn,gimli and legolas jump from the corsair ships and running into the orcs and gthe army of the dead appearing....

...now seeing the EE didnt really give you that hype, it pretty much did that scene of how the boarded and took over the ships,
"you and what army"
"this army...."
I am glad for it being in the EE,

even still - I dont think the "this army..." is such a good hype either.

ach bloody star wars off topic nonsence, I am a huge fan of star wars but damn this is the EE thread

I did the FOTR:EE + TTT:EE + ROTK(normal) once back in summer and damn my ass did hurt. i think I had 2 chineses delivered, 6 beers, 2 litres of cola, 2 pints of milk and god knows how much packets of crisps.

The EE marathon should be fun, I would like to do it with one or more of my friends but no one would be interested, its hard to find LOTR fans round my parts, it saddens me

mmm.....maybe during the Xmas holidays if I can be bothered to set aside 11hrs, if not it will be my new years resolutions

Discos - my ass trembles at the thought

yeap yeap yeap obi1 vs anakin is like a 20 year wait for some peeps lol

LOL Discos... what are you doing to the EEs that makes your ass hurt O_O

Joking

You could come over to my mates and watch it with us Get a plane to the SW UK and you'll be welcome!!

Since I made vehement points about the EE on other occasions, I thought it'd be fitting for me to post here, in good spirits, with my newly purchased copy of the Extended Edition, and report.

Many of you may know that Saruman and Grima Wormtongue are two of my favorite characters in The Lord of the Rings, nay, in all of Tolkien's works.

You may be surprised, then, to learn that I loved the added "Voice of Saruman" sequence.

Christopher Lee is magnificent as usual, and I have only one minor gripe. Far more good points to make than bad. The editing was sketchy, for one. Saruman popping up worked, because he is supposed to be crafty, and that implies a certain wizardly stealth, but when Saruman was dead and the camera cut back to Treebeard, it didn't work as well. That's my only annoyance about the scene. The whispering of characters seemed reasonable to me. Firstly, it is explained that none of the actors realized how high up Saruman was, so their confusion is understandable.

Saruman's voice was perfectly melodious and sinister. When I heard Lee utter those fabulous words ("Gibbets and crows! Dotard!" I felt a surge of joy. I knew the whole speech would not be there, but I knew that its feeling was, and that was good enough. It is the feeling of that near-multiple-personality tirade of Saruman's that is essential. The voice was sickeningly sweet and tempting, tantalizing, and Theoden, despite other comments, seemed momentarily tempted by the prospect of alliance. And, finally, I found a bit of amusement and interest in hearing about Saruman's accurate delivery of his post-mortem grunt (C. Lee explains, in the 'Cameras in M-E' Documentary, that he had some clandestine knowledge of what sound a person made when a person was stabbed in the back multiple times).

The additions contributed to Legolas and Gimli were also interesting, considering the fact that, as is revealed, John Rhys-Davies actually ad-libbed all those corny/hilarious lines of Gimli. This, I think, is a redeeming trait. It's not easy to create a line in context that is funny enough to still cause a chorus of laughter in global theaters. Kudos to the Dwarf! Similarly, I found little wrong with the drinking game, although it did not strike my humerus, as did some other Dwarven prodigies. I liked the Corsair bit, although the corsair captain's lines sounded even more modern than most of Legolas and Gimli's pop-culture jokes (do people in Middle-Earth really say "You and what army"?).

Denethor was not redeemed, he was explored, and I liked that - a lot. I thought that the EE added quite a bit to Denethor. His conversation with Faramir was average, but the single addition of his few lines during "The Pyre of Denethor" were enlightening in some respect. In the moment before he casts the torch, to sow his own doom, upon the fire, he did give some insight into his reasons and his madness (in essence, summing up a lot of thoughts that the book-verse palantir shoved into his weakened mind). John Noble, during the commentaries and documentaries, does speak about the palantir at length, which means that it was not forgotten...nor was it, really, left out of Denethor's character. I still think that the movie's depiction of him is slanderous to a great character, but I smile to know that some of my love for Denethor as a character is shared, and that PJ did understand that this was not a villain, not an abusive cad, but a fallen monarch...

That's all for now.

I don't know what came to my head when I said that the drinking game wasn't hilarious.

Take that back..LOL. I just remembered how much I was laughing my head off while watching that scene.

So yeah, it tickled my funny bone.

Hey, yeah.....How come when theoden was speaking to grima, he was whispering....?
He shouted to saruman....but then he lowered his voice to a barly audible whisper to speak to grima who was perched WAY on top of orthanc...

LOL..yeah, I know. Bernard Hill got carried away with his acting. But it's a minor point.

can't wait for that either, it comes out the day before my birthday...

ok
rotk:ee

i absolutely loved the part in 'the voice of saruman' when theoden had his 'there shall be peace...' speech...so good, so tolkienesque, i've watched that part severaly times in a row now, i appreciate it more and more

i'm glad saruman is back in it, christopher lee is the man, his death scene was good

alright, since i didn't read through this whole thread, shadowy has probably responded in legnth to this, but here goes my opinion...eowyn and faramir...of all the stuff that they put back in the movie, that should have been one of the longest, but it was not. now don't get me wrong, i LOVE the scene between them, they have excellent chemistry (more than another certain m-e couple) but there needs to be more. i wanted that kiss between them, it would have been perfect...but, you can't have everything in life

on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the highest, i'd give the ee a 9.5

i've watched the 1st disk and so far i'm pretty impressed. some times i have to admit it got boring, but i really enjoyed the scenes added to the Paths of the Dead, and when gimli and legolas try to see who could drink the most was funny as hell.

I just finished up the first disk of rotk:ee and so far im pretty disappointed, the only part right now i like is when gimli trys to blow away the floating hands, and the drinking game, that was pretty funny

on to the second disk!

about have way through the 2nd disk now, so far i lke it better than the first, liked the extra footage on denethor trying to burn faramir, liked witchy talkin to gandalf, cept for he wasnt on the horse. have yet to see the houses of healing and the moth of sauron...and the scoarging of the shire. like the extra battle footage with the elephant things and eowyn fighting with the pink-eye-problem-dude, he got on my nerves alot

just finished disk 2, and over all i am VERY dissapointed with the rotk:ee film. i probably would have liked it a lot better if i hadnt read the book.
reasons why im mad at peter jackson:

1) not enough houses of healing
2) what happened to witchy being on a horse and talking to gandalf? why was pippin there? why did witchy all of a sudden leave?
3) mouth of sauron
...a) whats with his teeth?
...b) why is he constanly smiling?
...c) what happened to negotiating and settleing things peacefully?
...d) wtf? aragorn cut off his head?!?
4) the shire is perfect! why is it perfect!?
5) no scorging of the shire
6) saruman deserved a better death. come on? falling off a tower (he wasnt even on his balcany) and stabbing himself? what was the spikey wheel there for anyway?

the witchking left because theoden arrived, and witchy is a netorious regicidal maniac...

the mouth of sauron smiled alot cause he had cut off his lips (another psycho)... he was a scorceror... so the flank decpaitation by Aragorn was his best bet...

wait... why am i answering all these... listen to the comontaries and watch disc 3 and 4...

there... i just saved myself an hour of typing...

i am impressed with the EE still not as good as FOTR but awesome none the less , the thing with the skulls in the paths of the dead sequence didnt make a whole lot of sense to me tho , agree that the houses of healing shouldve been a bit longer , and i thought the gandalf VS witchking was 2 damn short , i thought they were going to have a huge stoush , pity they didnt but apart from that the EE is simply spectacular but it still doesnt beat FOTR for mine , AND it was good to see boromir again

the house of healing should have been longer.
It should have been about Aragorn and the athelas, not Eowyn dreaming away bout loss.

but mind you i loved the cross roads, exactly how the book was described.

i know i like to differentiate between the movies and the book but EE is made for us the book lovers. Plain and simple.

I still have yet to see it! I just don't have the money right know.

plain and simple indeed fin. mmm.....your right again with the description of the crossroads. There is a part in the two towers where it describes the crossroads (this is earlier in the book round about the black gate time) and i didnt think that description was very good at all.

I LOVE IT!

the Saruman scene was excellent. i totally loved it, esp. Theoden's speech. i recognized it from the book, although it was much shorter.

i loved all the extra parts with Pippin, and Merry as well.

the mouth of sauron is one of the FREAKIEST things i ever saw in a movie. he's cool, but FREAKY.

i cried during some parts of disc 4.

i love the cast commentary. esp. Dom and Billy. hehehe...



um well they did think of a name for it but i don't remember it. Fran Walsh wrote it and Liv Tyler sung it. originally it was supposed to play when Arwen sees the vision of her son but they thought it would be too weird to have a scene with Liv and hear her voice singing.

lol yup the mouth of sauron part is freaky-ish, looks like he needs some lip bam or something haha.

Extended Edition has got to be my greatest DVD purchased yet. I own many dvds but damn this one is so....precious

I hope you all enjoyed it to the same extend of it as me, I am proud to say it was worth every penny. It would out equivilant of me working 5 and a half hours at my work (where I actually bought it haha)....I would gladly work an extra 5 and a half hours again to see it

~~~~~~~~Spoilers!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`



Just saw this the other day! and may I say OMGGGGGG!!! It was so great! and when saurman (sp?) fell and hit the thing, me and my friends were all like jawdrop and then treebead said his line and were like "wooow" and then the part with sam and frodo when sam says " Look the King has a crown again" All of the guys were like "Its forshadowing!!!!!!" and they got all excited. It was cute.

And the mouth of sauron. . .. wow thats happiest smile i've ever seen an evil guy have!


over all I love it and I want it

i watched the stuff on disc and 3 and 4 and neither gave an explination as to why they decided to chop off his head!

just watched it again last night...

bloody hell... how great are those battles...
the EEs allways pull through on the battle front..


he he he the battle front...

discos i did enjoy it to the same extent as you. i saved for it for months, i was sooooo incredibly happy to finally have a copy in my hands. it's my single favorite DVD.

The whole thread... all for myself

hehe cheeky storm.

Good stuff szhismine *thumbs up*. Glad you enjoyed it.

The MoS has the most kick ass voice ever "i see it was dear to thee" - Yes!

ANGELFLAMES - glad to see you watched it with a group, I aint allowed to watch LOTR with friends because i get too carried away. A running commentary from "Discs" if you will.

meh, saruman falling onto the turnwheel thing was sort of....weird.

back to the MoS, I was like "no way would aragorn would have done that" when he chopped off his head.....but the dude did push Aragorn to the extend of pissing him off.

ok spoilers, but did u guys see the part in the Appendices where Sauron " appeared" on the battle field.

He was in his Maiar form, omg that would have looked incredible, although very wrong since it wasn't in the book. It would have been ok to just see Sauron, not have him be there Physically. Sauron in his original form, was meant to be angelic kinda way. Makes you wonder what Gandalf would lok like in HIS Maiar FORM.

Yeah, in a way I wish they put that in. It's an amazing concept... although it didn't go with the book.

I just wish they'd release the 6 hour version of RotK and any other un-cut versions of LotR!!!!!

(I would buy them...)

I just watched it last night, and the extra stuff, I saw that they had shoot a cool scene with Aragorn fighing Sauron, and they cut it it was awsome it showed sauron as he looked when he desived the elves with the rings, and then suddently he was all in armor and had a coool sword, but they had to cut it, dumb idiots, this really bothers me, they said some shit about it would do no good, because they needed to show that aragorn would risk his life and shit, but didint he just do that when he marched for the black gate? bah I'm just very glad Saruman was in there, and that he mentioned the 5 wizards

WHERE CAN I FIND THAT EXTRA
TELL ME DAMN IT

what extra sauron?

----I saw that they had shoot a cool scene with Aragorn fighing Sauron, and they cut it it was awsome it showed sauron as he looked when he desived the elves with the rings, and then suddently he was all in armor and had a coool sword----

lol

yeah that reallllly good

yeah yeah all the pruist would have cried bloody murder for PJ, but that scene would have been awesome. Couldn't they have put that as a vision or something??

welll thank god for the appendices, cause we did see it.

WHERE
WHAT DISK
WHAT OPTION
WHAT WERE WHEN HOW WHY TELL ME PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OG GOD CHRIST BUDDHA HINDU GISHNU PLEASE TELL ME

Ok its deffently on the first disc, but I pressed that play all bottun, so I really dont know, but it was quite early, just press play all, and watch it..

First disc?
First actual disck, or first appendice?

first appendice ofcourse

was great when you saw sauron, how come when you see him, he is in armour and then lifts up another palantir.
odd man.

Yeah its the same, but look in his hand, no ring but a palantir, cheap PJ

Thank ya adres, will look for it now, soon as the ee finishes, Frodo is hugging sam bye bye.

so, that battle with the troll, what happened in that is actually what was supposed to happen with sauron.

and how come narsil can cut saurons finger off, but cant kill him even though he has been stabbed right through the stomach with it

hang on, i'm looking now

ah ha, its in the first Appendix and u go to "From Book to Script"
the scene u want is about half way in that section

and to be evil, here's a peek.

bastards should have include this, oh wait(it wasint in tolkien) but was gandalf hiting denethor in tolkien? how about the whole sarumans death scene? or elfs at helms, man this scene is what was needed in the black gate sequens, i felt the MoS rather weak, so this should have been included

i saw it, but how come mine was just drawings,a nd hers is some big green man.

oh you have to watch the 'from book to scrip forging the final chapter' not press aragorn vs sauron, but press 'from book to scrip forging the final chapter' and watch for 10mins, but by now I'm sure you've watached it..

No, not yet, will now though.

found it yet InnKeeper?

Hehe, I have more time to review the other scenes, LOL.

I enjoyed the EE very much. I've watched it several times now, and at the end, I always have a wonderfully satisfied feeling. However, I did have some disappointments.

I'll mention only the scenes that had the greatest impact, so to speak, on me.

The Voice of Saruman. The actors were so brilliant...they were delivering their lines beautifully, and it was if I was sitting within the pages of the battered old book that I've read long ago. Christopher Lee really nailed The Voice. And Theoden's speech, jeez...I had all my neckhair standing upon hearing that, lol. "We shall have peace. We shall have peace when you answer for the burning of the Westfold, and the children that lie dead there! We shall have peace when the lives of the soldiers, whose bodies were hewn even as they lay dead against the gates of the Hornburg, are avenged! When you hang from a gibbet for the sport of your own crows...we shall have peace." Also, the "rods of the Five Wizards" line was a nice nod to the fans.

The death of Grima bothered me though. While it didn't really disturb me that his death was at the wrong time and place, because that would be very nitpicky, my main disgust is for what took place after the stabbing. The fact that Legolas shoots Grima was bothersome to me. He just notched his arrow and did what was, in my mind, completely not right. My mom who didn't even read the book (and thus doesn't have any book-based sensibilities) was bewildered by the scene too. I was watching it with her and she said that the lines and acting were very powerful, but when Legolas shot Grima, I remember her saying, "Woah! Why did he kill the guy?!". It was more shocking because in that scene, they presented Grima as a very pitiable and tragic character, a good man in origin, and worthy of redemption, (Theoden even asked him to come down) and Saruman didn't even reveal the fact that it was Grima who killed Theodred by poisoning his wound. Now, if they did reveal that fact, then I think it will be more understandable for everyone why Grima should be killed the way he was. Going on a different point, I've already heard of the "Legolas-shooting-Grima" rumor even before the EE came out. Unfortunately, the scene in the EE wasn't what I expected. I thought Legolas was going to shoot Grima upon seeing that he would stab Saruman (basically, before Grima does the stabbing, and I didn't think they would show Grima to be so very worthy of sympathy so his death will be justified) because they needed some information (but Grima ends up succeeding with the stabbing anyway, albeit the arrow on his chest, ala Boromir), but I didn't expect him to shoot Grima after the fact that the guy already stabbed Saruman twice. It just didn't make sense. I dunno, just a personal gripe, because it didn't look right to me. Just making a point clear though: I have no problem that they killed Grima, because it was necessary for him to be killed, I just didn't like the way they killed him, and the way they balanced Grima's pitiable nature with his detestable faults, making his death scene "wtf?-able" and unnecessary in the film. I loved The Voice of Saruman, but not The Death of Grima Wormtongue.

While the drinking contest between Legolas and Gimli wasn't from the book, it was great fun, and I thought Gimli was immensely funny. (see here, I'm not just talking about my disappointments, LOL. I'm talking about everything: scenes that I enjoyed and scenes that I was indifferent to. )

The scene where Merry offers his allegiance to Theoden was short, but very wonderful. He spoke just like a hobbit, without any fancy and flowerly lines, but his honesty and loyalty were absolutely grand. In just this brief little scene, I recalled why Merry has been my favourite Hobbit since childhood (though I have to admit that it was quite changing. There are times when my heart was being pulled by Sam or Frodo or Pippin or by the light-heartedness of Bilbo, but Merry still wins overall. )

Oooh...the Mouth of Sauron. He was a truly annoying fellow. I've always detested him, ever since I knew of him in the book. I suppose that because he's the Mouth of Sauron, he won't do much besides talk, but I've always thought he talked a little too much. As for his unexpected end, I thought it was cool the first time I saw it, but after repated watching...*ducks tomatoes, and shoes, and whatever else* I thought Aragorn's action was not kingly and noble. It was not pleasant to think that one of the first things he did when he was placed at the head of his men, alongside the other leaders such as Eomer and Gandalf, was to cut off an enemy's head without warning of any kind. I know that the scene could be justified by the fact that he was outraged, for the ill words that MOS said, and the implication that Frodo is dead, but I still do feel twinges of disappointment when I think of it. But I'm not extremely angry as I appear to be, probably with a little help from the fact that I don't like MOS from the start. In all honesty, my thoughts were not: "Ah, Aragorn, you've ruined yourself!" when it happened, but rather: "Well...good! MOS was a detestable fellow anyway."

The Denethor scenes.. I did love some of his added lines, especially this one, so great: "Why do the fools fly? Better to die sooner than late... for die we must." I remember the first time I saw it, when he said Why do the fools fly?, I can't help saying to myself, "Because Gandalf said so."

Eomer finding Eowyn on the battlefield was short but perfect. It makes me wonder if perhaps he knew a little more than everyone else, and if his remark about how war was for men was made with a bit more purpose, as though he was afraid she might try something. Mere speculation, of course.

One thing I really enjoyed was another very small point: when Eowyn and Theoden were fighting near each other, and Eowyn is really giving it her all. Theoden looks over at her in surprise and respect, no doubt wondering who this impassioned young soldier is.

The Paths of the Dead was interesting. I got positively absolutely giddy upon hearing Malbeth the Seer's prophecy from Legolas outside the Paths, huzzah! "Who shall call them from the great twilight? The forgotten people. The heir of him to whom the oath they swore. From the north shall he come. Need shall drive him. He shall pass the door to the Paths of the Dead." Gimli blowing away the ghosts was hilarious, lol. The cascade of skulls made absolutely no sense to me at first, and I was saying to myself, "What the fork... PJ, you've gone off the deep end!" Then Aragorn and Friends emerged from the mountain, coming to the river. It seemed to me that perhaps the Dead were guiding them out, since the ships were fast approaching. Whether that's the intent or not is beyond me, but I think I'll stick with that idea to justify the sudden skull avalanche.

Greatness.

http://members.aol.com/Brumblepop/essays/essayimages/sn-smiles-sm.jpg

Look at the similarity in their faces. It's moments like this when I sit back, and say, "Wow PJ, that was great!"

Overall, even though I had some disappointments, I can't feel any resentment after watching this movie. The Grey Havens reconciles me to absolutely everything. Bringing that to mind, I can say honestly that this was a brilliant movie... absolutely brilliant.

* fini wonders if Shadowy knows how to type less than a 500 words in a post*

^

Girl you should be in the Fanatics plaza, where you get points for long posts.

I said that earlier, but i cant find where

probably in Tig Party.

i never noticed gandalf lost his staff in the original movie, lol, so that's how...

Same here! When I saw that I had to think if we ever saw gandalf with his staff after that point

Yeah omg me too! I was like omg did he really not have it after that *thinks* and then I watched the end bit and I was like oh yeah and he didn't! 'Cause when he tried saving Faramir and he takes that spear thing or whatever it was you would have thought he'd use his staff but obviously he doesn't!

Well at weathertop Aragorn had a torch and I think the nazzies are afraid of fire and its burns them or somthin but did gandalf think to bring a torch in the day time NO!

Hahaha yeah; that's their weakness.

Gandalf vs. The Witch King

While I find this scene rather spectacular as a set piece, I do share some of the reservations expressed.

First the positives. Given the timing of Grond's appearance and the breaking of the gates of Minas Tirith in the film, it would not have made sense to set this scene at the gates. The Trolls and Orcs had already broken through and Gandalf had ordered a retreat to the second level before his encounter with the Witch King takes place. (As an aside, I do wonder why the women and children had not been evacuated to a higher level earlier .) In terms of the chronology used in the film, therefore, it makes sense for the encounter to take place while Gandalf and Pippin are en route to prevent Denethor's little family bonfire.

It also makes more sense than the book in one respect. It always struck me as rather strange that the Witch King would lead his army into battle on horseback when he had a Fell Beast at his disposal. It seems even more strange that, having confronted Gandalf on horseback, he would then exchange his horse for a Fell Beast halfway through the battle. In this regard, it makes more sense that the Witch King confronts Gandalf while mounted on his Fell Beast and then flies off to encounter Theoden, Eowyn et al on the same steed.

I do also think that, in film terms, it is more spectacular to have the Witch King slowly rise above the battlements for the encounter. The sight of him towering over Gandalf and Pippin on his Fell Beast looks good visually. I also love the shot in which his sword bursts into flames (mirroring, filmically, the text of the book, "And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade."--The Siege of Gondor). Although, I suppose this raises the question of why he swapped it for a huge mace/flail thingy in his encounter with Eowyn.

But now for the negatives. As others have said, it rather goes against the spirit of the books that the Witch King is able to get the better of Gandalf. But more problematic, for me, is the fact that it is inconsistent with Gandalf's portrayal elsewhere in the film. It has been pointed out that as Gandalf the Grey, he was able to defeat a Balrog, and that (as Gandalf the White) he had the better of Saruman. These are the two central villains of the first and second films, and two of the most powerful beings in Middle-earth. Why should the Witch King (who was driven off by Aragorn in the Weathertop and by Glorfindel/Arwen at the Ford) be able to get the better of him?

I appreciate that the Witch King was set up as the main "baddie" of the final film, and there is a suggestion that his power was enhanced when he assumed leadership of Sauron's Mordor armies (in the scene where he first appears, donning his armour, in Minas Morgul, accompanied by Gandalf's line to Pippin that Sauron had yet to reveal his deadliest servant). In film terms, Gandalf's bettering by the Witch King increases the desperation of the battle (if even Gandalf cannot save them), and enhances the accomplishment of Eowyn and Merry. But, to my mind, this doesn't get over the internal inconsistency in "power levels". Jackson could still have had the Witch King breaking Gandalf's staff (which is pretty spectacular, introduces a moment of tension and ties in with his line to Gothmog that he will "break" the wizard), but Gandalf should then have fought back. I would have preferred a "stand off" between them here, as in the book.

And this would also have made more sense of the Witch King's sudden departure with the arrival of the Rohirrim, since I agree that it seems tactically inept for him to forego finishing off his greatest foe if he has him at his mercy.

Well at weathertop Aragorn had a torch and I think the nazzies are afraid of fire and its burns them or somthin but did gandalf think to bring a torch in the day time NO!

Ya but he turned he sword into flaming sword y wasint he afraid then????

anyway the scene was clearly rushed I mean how long was it, 40secs? something like that, it should have been a fight and a whoopin, but a good ol captain vs captain fight, not some halfassed demigod vs junky, wich it was!

The problem is the movie didn't really take the time to emphasize/mention the fact that the Nazgul are afraid of fire and water, making them seem weak in the first film when Aragorn and Arwen drove them off, and thus making the scene where the Witch King was owning Gandalf a little inconsistent from what the movie has established power-wise.

As for the Witch King's blade flaming up, it came directly from the book, so I guess we should ask the good 'ole Professor why Wiki wasn't afraid, but alas, we can't do that now. As for me, I'm guessing that the flaming up could either be interpreted literally or metaphorically. The movie just made a visual interpretation of it.

aye good point shadowy, as usual.

perhaps it was a flame of the underworld, in which the witchking was accustomed too?

as for me, I am watching the EE tomorrow for a record 5th time, how cool am I?

I found the Mouth scene substandard. And the Saruman scene. Damn.

yeah I somewhat agree with you duder, the mouth of sauron scene did not satisfy me at all

Aragorn just didnt seem himself and when he killed the dude he took a mental ass rape on the others "I dont believe it"....ok we got that haha.

^^ I'm beginning to see a pattern

Me eat now?

yeees, I will go get you some nice crayons.

I was due to watch ROTK:EE on friday but didnt - how crazy a story is that.

I am working too much nowadays and too much homework comes in, I only have time for such a movie during holidays or a sunday where I am not hungover (which wont be so remote now since I started my 2005 campaign to quite the booze)

I watched it earlier.

^^ a whole day i am gone and all i come back to is this one wee post....no no no my friends, This is the bloody EE. I demand we discuss more!