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"Holy mary mother of GOD.... .. " Well, how the frig can Mary be Mother of God when the earth was CREATED by God and Jesus is Mary's son? Im all confuzzled on this junk. If Mary was blessed with a child by God, how was Jesus <God> The one to be put into her stomach?

He's God ya know-he can be in more than one place at once. Yes he created Mary and gave her Jesus. He needed to be born in a human to have flesh. Have you heard of the Holy Trinity? It basically means that God is 3 in one-God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. They do exist I've experienced having the Holy Spirit on several occasions. He had to be born on earth so he could die for all the evil the human race has done.

Just remember, never take the bible too literally or you'll be killing gay people.

and I have experienced the lack of a divine trinity power my entire life

"Holy Mary, mother of God..."

Sorry, it can't be found in the Bible.

The only true God is Christ's God, who is the Father in heaven. According to Christ Himself.

Mary, according to herself, is none other than a servant of God.

And the Trinity doctrine is not a Biblical concept, according to the Trinitarians and Catholic theologians themselves.

Not to mention beating and enslaving your own daughters.

this thing should be merged into the other god/jesus thread

/\

HE ISNT GOD!!!



I AM!!!!

yes, it could be.

and since there are no gods you are reduced to what?

I am the god of my own world

la la land?

Dont lock yourself down to what we would conventionally see as a father, the concept of God alone, trying to grasp what he is what he looks like, etc. is enough to make your brain hurt, celestialgirl is exactly right, the Holy Trinity consists of God-The maker, Jesus-The earthly form "son" of God brought down to spread the word and die for our sins, and The Holy Spirit, that which fills our everyday lives. Hope this clears up some confusion, and hopefully doesent create more

Why?

That's probably because you do want to experience it and your looking for away to prove he doesn't exist because you think he should make your life happier if he did!

K some things you have to understand, the bible does not say to kill gays it says that being gay isn't right if you are a christian. I have nothing against gays-my uncle is and I have a few friends who are. and note to other peopledo not read and follow the old testament but the new one

God and Jesus are not the same. God is the father, Jesus is his Son.

no it is because I aint insane and fall for that big hoax

How is Jesus God?

If you are a Christian, and if you believe in the Bible... you wouldn't have asked such question.

Because the Bible never mentioned that Jesus is our God. Never.

our include who?

Christians

oh the fairy tale believers

yeah, at least for you.

Odin is god

I would say go read the bible and it may tell you.I am not sure how to answear that question!jm

Christ is god


Jn.1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Jn.1:14
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us."
Jn.8:58
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
Jn.10:30-31
"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him."
Jn.10:38-39
"The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him."


Christ is not god

Col.3:1
"Christ sitteth on the right hand of God."
1 Tim.2:5
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
Jn.14:28
"My Father is greater than I."

But Cathoilics belive in Trinity so why do they do that, but mean it doesn't disturb me a bit an omnipotent being can be Father son and holy ghost and whatever he wants I mean just think about it omnipotgence we wouldn't understand half thed stuff going on with that.

Odin is god

dude I know that tell them

have done so twice, so here we go again Odin is god

at least he is not omnipotent

Ah, Im understanding it more now.

test (nvm delete this PLZ)

Jn.1:1... the verse never claimed that Christ is God there.
Jn1:14... same no declarations of Christ being God.

I know i have posted this several times in the other thread.
Look, what is there in the beginning was the "Word" or Logos Logos as used by John implies the "thought" or "plan" of God concerning Christ. It's not yet Christ Himself who is there in the beginning, but the "plan". The "plan" which is in the mind of God or "with God" in the beginning as "promise". This "plan" of God is powerful since God's word is powerful and everything He proclaims should be fulfilled, thus, rendering a phrase "and the Word is God". It's not the same as saying "and the Word is the God". The Greek grammarians made several accounts regarding such thing. The "God" in the third phrase functions as adjective because of the absence of the definite article.

Now, in verse 14, what made "flesh" was the "Word" itself, not Christ. Remember, according to the Bible, there is only one God. And that God is the Father (not the Son). If you believe that the "Word" was Christ Himself as God and make Himself into flesh. Then it would result as God became Jesus Christ - this idea is biblically absurd. The Father and the Son are two distinct beings. No incarnation takes place. Now, by saying "the Word has made flesh", it means that the "plan" of God ceoncerning Christ was fulfilled. Meaning, the promise of God, since the beginning, about having Christ in the future has taken place.
-------

Jn 8:58:... before ABRAHAM, Christ said, "I am".
True, since the world was made through Jesus Christ. Christ was indeed before us all in the sense that God made a "plan" concerning Him. The Bible tells us that there is no pre-existent Christ. He was not there before He was born.
-------

Jn 10:30... read it again. Christ didn't say "I and my Father are one God." He only said "I and my Father are one." In what sense they are one? Read the previous verses, you will know that He was talking about the "caring of the flock." God and Jesus are one in accord of taking care of the flock. The people tried to stone Him because they thought Christ was claiming to be God. But Christ rebuked them because of what they have thought. Jesus was only proclaiming that He is the Son of God... not the God Himself. You can read that if you finish the verse.
-------

Jn 14:28, there's no wrong with the verse. Christ only proclaims that God is in Him. It is not the same as saying that He is God Himself. God is doing everything through Christ. The miracles, signs and wonders... everything was done only by God THROUGH Jesus Christ. For Christ Himself proclaimed that He can do nothing without God. In fact, the God Himself declared that He is everywhere. He can be in you, He can be in me.
-------

Now, I think I don't need to clarify the rest.

No you don't I could understand that very interesting!Thanks!JM

No prob, I guess.

Jesus is Gods Son!!!

Yes, according to the Bible.

^How else are you going to get evidence about Jesus/holy trinity?

well you could just make some up


Oh wait I forgot its called the Bible

Oh, I honestly don't get it. Can you please make it clear, if you won't mind?

If you are asking about the evidence for Jesus... well it's the Bible, of course.

But for the holy trinity... sorry... the Bible don't mention about it... It doesn't even have any idea of God-in-three-persons.

bible aint evidence

At least for people like you.

Intensive scholars say it is... according to Encarta.

For Judaism and Christianism... it is.

strange thing that the bible contradict itself in the new testament, how can it be evidence if the book cant agree uppon what really happen

Well, for non-Christians, it is.

But not for me and for my religion.

then how did Judas Iscariot die?, there are two different versions how he died in the NT which is right?

Two different versions? Doesn't the Bible have a LOT of versions?

Anyway, let me think about it.

Or... let me know first what you consider contradicting in Judas' death.

Still, I don't see there is.

Judas is cool he is my favorite person in the bibkle. Well maybe Cain too.

I have heard theories that Jesus chose Judas.

JEsus is a fun guy, but Judas too

Bardock, I smiled when I read your last 2 posts on this thread.

Thats good. Making people smile is hard work.

And what's the use of those posts on this thread, Bardock?

They make people smile, since everyone knows there is no logic involved in topics with god anyway.

So don't post here. That's so simple.

The KMC Forum Rule says: Post in Relevant Forums
Also sounds like "posting in the right place".

The rule is so simple to be understood by a child of seven, right?

Indeed but I just responded to Frodo, anyway do you have any new ideas aboot God being Jesus or why do you post here? Just to teach me? That is kind of against the rules.

Responding to Frodo?



And a reasonable reminder is some kind of against the rules?
Ok, so be it.

Have a nice day anyway.

I will,
But sure you are right that post was off-topic, so well kille me I don'T know, I am sorry.
And yes because of you and me this thread has now 10 insteqad of 5 off topic posts.
I think here is no more reasonable tsalking possible if no one can come back on topic.

Now, that sounds better.

I think you ignored a lot of my post, but indeed I killed this thread.

Well, as for my case, I am waiting for a response for my post last day.
It doesn't matter to me if whatever happens to this thread. But I will always be here to let everyone follow the rules. That is what I call "responsible posting".

See you around anyway.

Sure. What is contradicting in Judas Death?

Well, if you really are reading my posts... it's not me who said that there's any contradiction in the Bible concerning Juda's Death, right?

Ask the one who is telling that. I'm asking the same thing, anyway.

And, btw... it's not off-topic. Finti and I were having discussion about evidences regarding Jesus in the Bible.

I know it was your question I wanted to repeat it so that the person can read it again and answer it since we were of topic for sometime now.
And I never said that was off-topic, its rather interesting actually.

Yeah, right. And thanks for that.

But I really have to go now.
See yah!

Originally posted by DanieLs_4_Ever
"Holy mary mother of GOD.... .. " Well, how the frig can Mary be Mother of God when the earth was CREATED by God and Jesus is Mary's son? Im all confuzzled on this junk. If Mary was blessed with a child by God, how was Jesus <God> The one to be put into her stomach? It's a mistery. I don't belive God is a mistery and I don't believe in the trinity. I'm not saying jesus can't be god, but if he is then who is the hoy ghost. If jesus is god then I'm god and every born again believer is god.

Originally posted by Jury
"Holy Mary, mother of God..."

Sorry, it can't be found in the Bible.

The only true God is Christ's God, who is the Father in heaven. According to Christ Himself.

Mary, according to herself, is none other than a servant of God.

And the Trinity doctrine is not a Biblical concept, according to the Trinitarians and Catholic theologians themselves.

If it's not a biblical concept and they know that why do they teach it?

The closest thing he said to being god is I and my father are one. The bible has a lot of idioms and the jews knew that.He was using a metaphor but they wanted to kill him anyway and they were looking for an excuse so they said you being a man make yourself a god. He said is it not written in your law I have made you gods, but the trinitarians don't read that part.

Jesus is God. one of the people asked where they can see the father, Jesus said you are looking at him now. Jesus before Abraham I was. This made the Jews mad and they almost stoned him, but he got away..

Originally posted by DanieLs_4_Ever
"Holy mary mother of GOD.... .. " Well, how the frig can Mary be Mother of God when the earth was CREATED by God and Jesus is Mary's son? Im all confuzzled on this junk. If Mary was blessed with a child by God, how was Jesus <God> The one to be put into her stomach?

well if ur a muslim then u don't hav 2 worry abt that cuz v blieve that there is 1 God only 1 with no son or daughter or watever n v do blieve in Jesus n Mary but not that they r God's relatives

and if you are a non believer you dont have to worry about any divine stuff

Originally posted by finti
and if you are a non believer you dont have to worry about any divine stuff

Because we all are.......That's why we're so creative.....NOW Satan, which is just a (wrong persecuting thinking) has tricked us into believing we are not WHO we really are......

I looked up a website and it uses biblical evidence to say he is god anyway, listen to this.


who and what was Jesus Christ. The Roman governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate, faced a difficult situation when Jesus was brought before him. apprehensively, he attempted to dismiss the picture that was emerging in front of him. when Pilate heard the accusation, it struck fear into his heart. "He has claim to be the son of god" (John 19:7) Pilate's next question betrayed his fear that he was not dealing with an ordinary man. he had just been given a message from his wife, who received a warning in a dream not to have anything to do with this innocent man. (Matthew 27:19). Pilate himself knew that Jesus had been delivered to him because the chief priests were jealous of and despised him (verse 18). Yet Pilate couldn't avoid his date with destiny.

He next asked Jesus, "Where are you from?" (john 19:9). Pilate already knew he was a Galilean. But what geographical area this Jewish teacher came from was not the question. Where are you really from is what Pilate wanted to know. Jesus was silent. his claim to be the son of god had already answered this question. but Pilate did not have the courage to deal with this answer.

Accepting the real answer would have made all the difference. The apostle Paul said that none of the rulers of this world knew who Jesus was, where he came from and his purpose for coming, "for had they known, they would not have crucified the lord of glory" (1 Corinthians 2:8).

Pilate could not face this issue. he knew what was right in this instance, but he feared losing power. he feared Caesar's reaction if it were reported that he did not deal with someone who posed a threat to roman control in the region (john 19:12). He feared a popular uprising if he did not agree to the Jewish leaders' political demands. He also feared Jesus, because he was not quite sure with whom he was dealing.

AVOIDING A DIFFICULT CHOICE
in the end political expediency won out. the stage was set to both indict all mankind of guilt and make provision for their forgiveness. Pilate gave the order for Jesus to be crucified. the reality was denied, left for all to confront at a later time.

most of us tend to ignore unpleasant realities and make choices that we think are beneficial to us. confronted with evidence as to who Jesus really was, would you face a reality that is too difficult for you to accept? deep down, maybe we intuitively realize it would change life as we know it. So perhaps it's better, we reason, not to look into this matter too deeply to leave ourselves an out. That's the route Pilate took.

but this is where we have to begin. who, really was Jesus of Nazareth? where did he really come from? if we understand that, it explains everything he did and said.

most see Jesus as a teacher, a wise man, a Jewish sage who died an unjust and horrible death and founded a great religion.

is there more to it than that? one of the most controversial topics is the true identity of Christ-and at the same time it is perhaps the most crucial. it lies at the Christian faith. what this entails is the understanding that Jesus was not simply an extraordinary human being, but that Jesus was actually god in human flesh.

but if he was god in the flesh, how was he god? this is the part that is often neglected in many explanations-and, as a result, many have difficulty grasping how this could be.

jesus certainly regarded himself as much more than only a man, prophet or teacher.

some say jesus made no claims to be god. some scholars even insist that, years later, leaders of the christian church concocted and edited into the record the titles jesus used, the miracles and his claims and actions that showed he believed he was god. in other words, the argument is that the record has been fabricated and the jesus portrayed in the new testament is a legend, theological product of the early church.

However, this is historically impossible for several reason's the least of which is that immediately after the death and resurrection of jesus, the church grew explosively based on the conviction that he was god. there was no time for a legend to develop around exaggerated claims of who jesus might be.

peter immediately preached jesus had been resurrected from the dead and that he was indeed the christ and lord and equated him with god (acts 2:27, 34-35). the disciples and the church knew jesus was, as the powerful growth of the church shows.

the fact of the matter, staggering through, it is, is that jesus of nazareth was good in the flesh. this fact, which will further explore, is what makes Christianity unique and authoritative. if jesus was not god, then the christian faith doesn't differ in kind from other religions. if jesus was not god, those in the early christian church would have had no basis for their beliefs-beliefs that, in the words of their enemies, "turned the world upside down" (acts 17:6).

JESUS, THE I AM

perhaps the boldest claim jesus made about his identity was the statement, "most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (john 8:58). translated into English, his statement may appear or sound confusing. but in Aramaic or Hebrew language in which he spoke, he was making a claim that immediately led people to try and stone him for blasphemy.

which was going on here? jesus was revealing his identity as the actual one whom the Jews knew as god in the old testament. he was saying in one breath that he existed before Abraham and that he was the same being as the god of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

anciently when the great god first revealed himself to moses in exodus 3:13-14, moses asked him what his name was. "I AM WHO I AM," was the awesome reply. "thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.

jesus clearly claimed to be the same being's "I AM" of exodus 3:14, the god of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (verse 15).

"I AM" is related to the personal name of god in the old testament, the Hebrew name YAHWEH. when this name appears i our English bibles, it is commonly rendered using small capital letters as LORD. it is transliterated as "Jehovah" in some bible versions.

when jesus made this startling statement, the Jews knew exactly what he meant. they picked up stones to kill him because they thought he was guilty of blasphemy.

"I AM" and the related YAHWEH are the names of god that infer absolute timeless self-existence. although impossible to translate accurately and directly into English, YAHWEH conveys meaning of "the eternal one," "the one who always exists" or "the one who was, is always will be." These distinctions can apply only to god, whose existence is eternal and everlasting.

in Isaiah 42:8 this same being says, "I am the lord , that is my name; and my glory I will not give to another, nor my praise to carved images." a few chapters later he says: "thus says the lord , the king of Israel, and his redeemer, the lord of hosts: 'I am the first and the last; besides me there is no god" (Isaiah 44:6).

to the Jews, there was no mistaking who jesus claimed to be. He said he was the one the nation of Israel understood to be the one true god. by jesus making claim to the name "I AM," he was saying that he was god whom the Hebrews knew as YAHWEH. this name was considered holy that a devout Jew would not pronounce it. this was a special name for god that only can refer to the one true god.

Dr. Norman Geisler, in his book Christan apologetics, concludes: "in the view of the fact that Jehovah of the jewish old testament would not give his name, honor, or glory to another, it is little wonder that the words and deeds of jesus of nazareth drew stones and cries of blasphemy from first century Jews. the very things that Jehovah of the old testament claimed for himself jesus of nazareth also claimed.

JESUS IDENTIFIED WITH YAHWEH

Dr. Geisler goes on to list some of the ways jesus equated himself with YAHWEH of the old testament.

Jesus said of himself, "I am the good Shepherd" (john 10:11). David, in the first verse of the famous 23rd psalm, declared that the "The lord is my shepherd." Jesus claimed to be the judge of all men and nations (john 5:22,27). yet Joel 3:12 says the Lord is my light."

Jesus said, "I am the light of the world" (John 8:12). Isaiah 60:19 says, "the lord will be to you an everlasting light, and your God your glory." Also, David says in psalm 27:1, "The LORD is my light."

jesus asked in prayer that the father would share his eternal glory: "O father, glorify me together with yourself, with the glory which I had with yourself, with the glory which I had with you father before we world was" (john 17:5). yet Isaiah 42:8 says, "I am the lord, that is my name; and my glory I will not give to another."

Jesus spoke of himself as the coming bridegroom (matthew24:1). which is exactly how YAHWEH is characterized in Isaiah 62:5 and Hosea 2:16.

In revelations 1:17 jesus says he is the first and the last, which is identical to what YAHWEH says of himself in Isaiah 44:6 "I am the first and the last."

There is no question that jesus understood himself as the lord (YAHWEH) of the old testament.

I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE

The Jews confronted jesus on another occasion, asking him, '' How long do you keep us in doubt? If you are the christ, tell us plainly" (john 10:24). jesus' answer is quite revealing: "I told you, and you don't believe" (verse 25). The works he did were miracles that only god could do. they could not refute the miraculous works jesus did.

He made another statement that incensed them: "I and my father are one" (verse 30). that is, The father and jesus were both divine. Again

there was no mistaking the intent of what he said, because "then the Jews took up stones again to Son him" (verse 31).

Jesus countered, "many good works I have shown you from my father. For which of those works do you stone me?" The Jews responded, "for a good work we do not stone you, but for blasphemy, and because you, bing a man, make yourself God" (verses 32-33).

The Jews understood perfectly well what Jesus meant. He was telling them plainly of his divinity.

The gospel of john records yet another instance in which Jesus infuriated the Jews with his claims of divinity. It happened just after Jesus had healed a crippled man at the pool of Bethesda on the sabbath. The Jews sought to kill him because he did this on the sabbath, a day on which the law of God had stated no work was to be done (which the misinterpreted to include what Jesus was doing).

Jesus made then made a statement that the Jews could take in oly one way: "my father has been working until now, and I have been working." Their response to his works? "Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath , but also said that God was His father, making him equal with God" (john 5:1-18).

Jesus was equating his works with God's works and claiming God as his father in a special way.

I have alot more information on this but it is long and I'm running out of time and I have to go to work soon, I will write more about this after work.

I concur.

i have four more pages to write about this. I will do some tonight and tomorrow, I can't do it now it is too long and I have to go to work soon.

looking forward to it

Originally posted by cking
i have four more pages to write about this. I will do some tonight and tomorrow, I can't do it now it is too long and I have to go to work soon.

I know you're just writing so you can count all the words and add them to my "look how many words I can write list."

no, not exactly, I got if off a website and I was trying to sum this tread up. I was trying to make the Webster's point. I could have written four more pages.

I bet you could too....but some stuff is just toooooooo long...hard to read really long stuff.

Originally posted by DanieLs_4_Ever
"Holy mary mother of GOD.... .. " Well, how the frig can Mary be Mother of God when the earth was CREATED by God and Jesus is Mary's son? Im all confuzzled on this junk. If Mary was blessed with a child by God, how was Jesus <God> The one to be put into her stomach? I used to think they had four of them, and then some people think mary magdalene is included that makes five. If you start dividing god into gods you can come up with a whole bunch of them but god is one god and I don't think he has a split personality.

HAHAHA...a split personaility.......that would be us....people....

Originally posted by markie
I used to think they had four of them, and then some people think mary magdalene is included that makes five. If you start dividing god into gods you can come up with a whole bunch of them but god is one god and I don't think he has a split personality.

The reason because we have one god not many gods, is political for me. In the past they had one god for each tribe, so a way to unify the tribes to create a single nation would be to create a single religion, after all religions was always associated with politics. Thats because we have only monotheisms today, is more probable that a monotheism survived as there would be a strong nation, than a polytheist politicaly divided nation. But thats only my opinion.

Originally posted by Bardock42
well you could just make some up


Oh wait I forgot its called the Bible Theu did, but it wasn't called the bible. It may have been called the Vedas which is the hindus holy book.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Judas is cool he is my favorite person in the bibkle. Well maybe Cain too. Judas was a good guy in a way. By turning christ over to the jews he helped in our salvation. I'm glad he did what he did or else we might still be unsaved.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I bet you could too....but some stuff is just toooooooo long...hard to read really long stuff. I just scroll down to the next post, I don't like to read long posts. Some ttimes I do but not very often, it seems like they can just come to there point without a long post.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
The reason because we have one god not many gods, is political for me. In the past they had one god for each tribe, so a way to unify the tribes to create a single nation would be to create a single religion, after all religions was always associated with politics. Thats because we have only monotheisms today, is more probable that a monotheism survived as there would be a strong nation, than a polytheist politicaly divided nation. But thats only my opinion. Do you think thet let the tribes keep their gods but made them part of the one god or included the other gods in the one god?

Originally posted by markie
Do you think thet let the tribes keep their gods but made them part of the one god or included the other gods in the one god?

Not that they included their gods in the 'one god', but I think that monotheism just is so common today because its politicaly more viable.

Judas wasn't a good guy at all. He was a thief like Barabbas and he was the money man for the disciples and stole some also. He rebuked Jesus for time for letting a woman scrub his feet with expensive perfume. but Jesus rebuke Judas because she was preparing him for his burial and what she did to Jesus would be honored. Judas was making excuses because he wanted that expensive perfume so he could sell it and have the money for himself.

I meant that god used him to turn jesus over to the jews, somebody had to.

Judas Priest?

not only Judas but Pilate also. even Jesus said the the greater sin was the one who turned me in, he was talking about Judas. Pilate was in the exact category also.

Originally posted by Kelly_LS
"Holy mary mother of GOD.... .. " Well, how the frig can Mary be Mother of God when the earth was CREATED by God and Jesus is Mary's son? Im all confuzzled on this junk. If Mary was blessed with a child by God, how was Jesus <God> The one to be put into her stomach?

Mary is just a woman whom God chose to bring His Son Jesus into the human experience (so that He could die for our sins). Jesus is the second Person among/within the Godhead (the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are divine).

YOu still didn't explain it.

From a hindu stand point Jesus was the second most recent incarnation of god here upon earth ( buddha being the most recent). WIth that logic Jesus is essentially God.

But from the christian stand point, they are adamant on saying that Jesus is the son of god, NOT god. Sooo why one earth do they keep going on bout worshipping Jesus....... yeah they should, but dont put alllllll the emphasis on just worshipping Jesus.

Originally posted by fini
YOu still didn't explain it.

From a hindu stand point Jesus was the second most recent incarnation of god here upon earth ( buddha being the most recent). WIth that logic Jesus is essentially God.

But from the christian stand point, they are adamant on saying that Jesus is the son of god, NOT god. Sooo why one earth do they keep going on bout worshipping Jesus....... yeah they should, but dont put alllllll the emphasis on just worshipping Jesus.

According to Hinduism isnt God everywhere? Therefore Jesus is God.

YEAH thats what I said

Originally posted by fini
YEAH thats what I said



Yeah I thought so im just making sure.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Jesus is God. There I said it.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God , and the Word was God.

Who was Jesus appealing to on the cross... himself? If God is eternal how could he have died? Even if it was for only three days.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Who was Jesus appealing to on the cross... himself? If God is eternal how could he have died? Even if it was for only three days.


I will answer this question with a previous post.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Did you fail to read this post too Regret? It is found in this thread:

How To Get To Heaven When You Die
Started by: scott_lefler


Show me where I said that Jesus is the Father. I said that Jesus and the Father are one. I furnished Scriptures that allude to Jesus and the Father's oneness but not their lack of individuality. Go back and read the posts entitled, "Jesus is God not a god" Part 1, 2, and 3. I have endeavored to show that Jesus is not a god. I surmise that what is throwing you off is the fact that I state that Jesus is God. I don't mean that Jesus is God the Father. Again go back and re-read my posts. The word "God" at times is used to refer to just the Father. Sometimes the term refers to the Son or the Holy Spirit individually. But the word "God" is singular (depending on the context) and can mean Father, Son or Holy Spirit. Look at the context to know Who or which One that it refers to. For example in the Book of Acts chapter 5 verse 3 Peters tells Ananias that he has lied to the Holy Spirit then in the very next verse Peter says that he (Ananias) has not lied to men but to God. Can you see what I mean now? The word "God" is singular and can refer to either Father, Son, or Holy Spirit because each One is God but they are God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit respectively. Furthermore, I believe that whenever I say that Jesus is God and not a god here is what you hear: "Jesus is the Father God." But that is not what I am teaching. I am teaching that Jesus is God (i.e., in and among the Three Who constitute the Godhead, Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Jesus confessed to being the Christ, the Son of the Blessed. The high priest, the chief priests, the elders, and the scribes knew what Jesus meant: that He and God--the Father--are equal. This is what drove the high priest into a rage. How dare Jesus affirm equality with God--they thought Jesus was just an ordinary Joe, Who managed to amass a following. But there Jesus stood before them declaring equality with God. That was the last straw. Jesus was condemned to die. He had to die for what He said because to them Jesus was speaking pure, unmitigated blasphemy. Folks, either Jesus is a liar, lunatic, or...He is Who He said that He is: the Son of God Who is equal with God--the Father. I think everytime that I say God I need to either say God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit. Because almost by default the term "God" refers to the Father. I think that is what tripped you up Regret. Lastly, I have already presented ample Scriptures where Jesus is called God. I just gave you one where the Holy Spirit is called God. Those Scriptures support my affirmation that Jesus is God--God the Son.

Now, there are designations (appelations, names, titles), if you would throughout the Bible that give the impression that Jesus is the Father such as in Isaiah 9:6-7 where Jesus is called "everlasting Father." But don't let my use of these verses discommode you. Read my lips (well in this case my words): Jesus is not the Father but Jesus is God. Did you get that? God doesn't mean that Jesus is the Father it just means that He too is among the Godhead.

Whew! I hope this justifies me and explains my position which I base on the Word of God.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I will answer this question with a previous post. Thus the Trinitarian deification of Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID).

Originally posted by Regret
Thus the Trinitarian deification of Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID).

Think of the Godhead (i.e. diety) as a fraternity (it is not but I am using an example that we can all relate to) and the benefits of this fraternity are omnipotence (all-power), omniscience (all-knowledge), and omnipresence (ubiquity). The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each in this fraternity if you would. Each Person has all three attributes respectively. So each One is God. Just as this God fraternity is singular so too is God. God is one but manifested in three distinct Persons.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Think of the Godhead (i.e. diety) as a fraternity (it is not but I am using an example that we can all relate to) and the benefits of this fraternity are omnipotence (all-power), omniscience (all-knowledge), and omnipresence (ubiquity). The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each in this fraternity if you would. Each Person has all three attributes respectively. So each One is God. Just as this God fraternity is singular so too is God. God is one but manifested in three distinct Persons. So, Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are entirely separate and distinct entities in your view? Not one distinct being? In the same manner that you and I are separate and distinct, yet men all the same?

This is not traditional Trinitarian Doctrine, unless of course you are mistaking the term singular and distinct.

Sounds like multiple man. One person, one mind, lots of bodies.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Sounds like multiple man. One person, one mind, lots of bodies. That is the traditional belief in Trinitarian Doctrine, it seems that JIA does not believe in this.

Originally posted by Regret
That is the traditional belief in Trinitarian Doctrine, it seems that JIA does not believe in this.

I don't think he actually knows what he believes.

Trinity
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Within Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is a single Being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a perichoresis of three persons (personae, prosopa): Father (the Source, the Eternal Majesty); the Son (the eternal Logos or Word, incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth); and the Holy Spirit (the Paraclete or advocate). Since the 4th Century, in both Eastern and Western Christianity, this doctrine has been stated as "One God in Three Persons," all three of whom, as distinct and co-eternal "persons" or "hypostases," share a single Divine essence, being, or nature. Supporting the doctrine of the Trinity is known as Trinitarianism, and is opposed to the positions of Binitarianism (two deities/persons/aspects), and Unitarianism (one deity/person/aspect), and Modalism (Oneness) which are held by some Christian groups.


That succinctly describes what I believe the Bible reveals and that is what I believe.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Trinity
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Within Christianity, the doctrine of the Trinity states that God is a single Being who exists, simultaneously and eternally, as a perichoresis of three persons (personae, prosopa): Father (the Source, the Eternal Majesty); the Son (the eternal Logos or Word, incarnate as Jesus of Nazareth); and the Holy Spirit (the Paraclete or advocate). Since the 4th Century, in both Eastern and Western Christianity, this doctrine has been stated as "One God in Three Persons," all three of whom, as distinct and co-eternal "persons" or "hypostases," share a single Divine essence, being, or nature. Supporting the doctrine of the Trinity is known as Trinitarianism, and is opposed to the positions of Binitarianism (two deities/persons/aspects), and Unitarianism (one deity/person/aspect), and Modalism (Oneness) which are held by some Christian groups.


That succinctly describes what I believe the Bible reveals and that is what I believe.

Then you do believe the Trinitarian Doctrine.

Which is one God, with separate manifestations that talk to each other frequently. This is termed Dissociative Identity Disorder. In some of my graduate work I was able to spend some time with a person believed to have such a disorder, I think it is a fiction, same as Trinitarian Doctrine.

Originally posted by Regret
Which is one God, with separate manifestations that talk to each other frequently. This is termed Dissociative Identity Disorder. In some of my graduate work I was able to spend some time with a person believed to have such a disorder, I think it is a fiction, same as Trinitarian Doctrine.

Who's report are you going to believe Regret, God's or man's. God's Word does not characterize the Godhead as Dissociative Identity Disorder so why are you doing so?

I think I am binitariarist then. I believe that, and have seen in the Bible, that the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit. Therefore, God would be pure Holy Spirit. Jesus would have been the Holy Spirit in a man. Therefore, Jesus would be God without being as great as God because of his flesh which is weak.

The Holy Spirit is His own Person. God the Father is a Spirit, God the Son is still in His flesh and bone body (albeit it is a glorified, immortal body now), and God the Holy Spirit is a Spirit. Jesus never once called the Holy Spirit His Father so I do not believe that the Holy Spirit is the Father per se. But I do believe that the Three are one God. The Holy Spirit proceeded from the Father but is still His own distinct Personage or Person.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Holy Spirit proceeded from the Father but is still His own distinct Personage or Person.
I sorta think that way too. However, I think the only important parts of Trinitarian theology is that Jesus is God.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Who's report are you going to believe Regret, God's or man's. God's Word does not characterize the Godhead as Dissociative Identity Disorder so why are you doing so? The Bible states that there are three entirely separate beings in the Godhead. It is a false doctrine that preaches that they are one single essence.

People that claim God spoke to himself, pleaded with himself, claimed that He had at least two separate differing wills ("Not my will, but thine be done", these claims support a diagnosis of Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). God's word identifies three distinct beings, and as such the Bible does not characterize the Godhead as DID, Trinitarian Doctrine, which you espouse, does that.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Who's report are you going to believe Regret, God's or man's. God's Word does not characterize the Godhead as Dissociative Identity Disorder so why are you doing so?

Technically we wouldn't be having the debate if God's word had actually been clear on the subject, but what do you know... it is vague and confusing, allowing wildly different interpretations.

You make it sound as if there is a chapter in the Bible that clarifies it perfectly.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Technically we wouldn't be having the debate if God's word had actually been clear on the subject, but what do you know... it is vague and confusing, allowing wildly different interpretations.

You make it sound as if there is a chapter in the Bible that clarifies it perfectly.

No offense I.S. but is Regret incapable of answering for himself? I see you repeatedly jumping in and responding for him. No offense though.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No offense I.S. but is Regret incapable of answering for himself? I see you repeatedly jumping in and responding for him. No offense though.

None taken.

Originally posted by Jury
How is Jesus God?

If you are a Christian, and if you believe in the Bible... you wouldn't have asked such question.

Because the Bible never mentioned that Jesus is our God. Never.

* well, maybe to you...

* but the Bible says that Jesus is a God of the Christians...

"Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,"
Titus 2:13

"Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:"
II Peter 1:1

* one is an apostle for the circumcised and one is for the Gentiles, but both of them believe that Christ is a God and Savior...

Originally posted by Loving_Daniel11
"Holy mary mother of GOD.... .. " Well, how the frig can Mary be Mother of God when the earth was CREATED by God and Jesus is Mary's son? Im all confuzzled on this junk. If Mary was blessed with a child by God, how was Jesus <God> The one to be put into her stomach?

It works on a Hindu principle of the birth of Krishna, the creator (plagerised later to incorporate Jesus, maybe)

Jesus was not created when he was born, he was incarneted, like Krishna is believed to be.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No offense I.S. but is Regret incapable of answering for himself? I see you repeatedly jumping in and responding for him. No offense though. Imperial Samura is merely participating in our discussion. I have answered. Imperial Samura is simply responding to your post, it is appropriate given the nature of the forum and thread structure and purpose. You have a much different view from the two of us, thus in this three-party discussion his statements should be welcomed.

Originally posted by Regret
The Bible states that there are three entirely separate beings in the Godhead. It is a false doctrine that preaches that they are one single essence.

People that claim God spoke to himself, pleaded with himself, claimed that He had at least two separate differing wills ("Not my will, but thine be done", these claims support a diagnosis of Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). God's word identifies three distinct beings, and as such the Bible does not characterize the Godhead as DID, Trinitarian Doctrine, which you espouse, does that.

(sighs with compassionate patience) Regret, God is not one Person He is one God. Each One is called God: God the Father, God the Son Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit. These three constitute one God, not one entity per se.

Originally posted by Regret
Thus the Trinitarian deification of Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID).

Think of the Godhead (i.e. diety) as a fraternity (it is not but I am using an example that we can all relate to) and the benefits of this fraternity are omnipotence (all-power), omniscience (all-knowledge), and omnipresence (ubiquity). The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each in this fraternity if you would. Each Person has all three attributes respectively. So each One is God. Just as this God fraternity is singular so too is God. God is one but manifested in three distinct Persons.

oh nooooooooo....Will you just stop it with all the verses.........I don't even read them anymore.....

Is it any coincidence that the original Christians though that jesus was simply a man? while the radical and rebel catholic branches (and thier protestant decendants) thought Jesus was a god.

Yep he was voted to be god........seriously.

By the Catholics correct?

Yes, the Holy Roman Catholic church......It was at a council meeting, around 324 AD.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
(sighs with compassionate patience) Regret, God is not one Person He is one God. Each One is called God: God the Father, God the Son Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit. These three constitute one God, not one entity per se.



Think of the Godhead (i.e. diety) as a fraternity (it is not but I am using an example that we can all relate to) and the benefits of this fraternity are omnipotence (all-power), omniscience (all-knowledge), and omnipresence (ubiquity). The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each in this fraternity if you would. Each Person has all three attributes respectively. So each One is God. Just as this God fraternity is singular so too is God. God is one but manifested in three distinct Persons.

This is not Trinitarian Doctrine, I am sorry, but this view is not what the Trinitarian view states. I understand what you are saying, but it is not Trinitarian. I have three friends (Catholic Deacon, Baptist Minister, and Methodist Minister) that have explained it to me, and they agree on what Trinitarian doctrine is, it is one entity that presents in one of three different forms. One unique personage three presentations.

Originally posted by Alliance
Is it any coincidence that the original Christians though that jesus was simply a man? while the radical and rebel catholic branches (and thier protestant decendants) thought Jesus was a god. Originally posted by debbiejo
Yep he was voted to be god........seriously. Originally posted by Alliance
By the Catholics correct? Originally posted by debbiejo
Yes, the Holy Roman Catholic church......It was at a council meeting, around 324 AD.

The early Christians believed Christ was God, the Council of Nicaea only defined what that meant. They altered the belief that Christ and God were separate to accommodate their interpretation of the one Lord and no other God references in the Bible. The Council of Nicaea defined Trinitarian Doctrine.

I don't remember that being correct. Jesus was a man, the mortal sun of god.

He later became a god himself thorugh the Catholic church.

Originally posted by Alliance
I don't remember that being correct. Jesus was a man, the mortal sun of god.

He later became a god himself thorugh the Catholic church. No, he was believed to be a God. There is no reference to a belief aside from this. There is reference to him being a man, but being a man does not eliminate Godhood.

Since when are "mortal" and "god" NOT contradictory?

Originally posted by Alliance
Since when are "mortal" and "god" NOT contradictory? Mortal means capable of death, Christ was half mortal, and thus capable of dying. Christian belief holds that is God half made him able to break the bonds of the grave and thus resurrect of his own power.

Originally posted by debbiejo
oh nooooooooo....Will you just stop it with all the verses.........I don't even read them anymore.....

If you go to the top of my post you will discover Debbiejoe that all those verses that you take issue with were not for you. The entire post was addressed to mahasattva. He responded to my post and that post was my reply back to him.

Jesus is God only in the same way that we are all God.

Originally posted by Kelly_LS
"Holy mary mother of GOD.... .. " Well, how the frig can Mary be Mother of God when the earth was CREATED by God and Jesus is Mary's son? Im all confuzzled on this junk. If Mary was blessed with a child by God, how was Jesus <God> The one to be put into her stomach?

You have every right to be confused. The idea that the king is his own father is from the time of the Babylonians. It is not true, Jesus was just a human man.

Originally posted by Regret
Mortal means capable of death, Christ was half mortal, and thus capable of dying. Christian belief holds that is God half made him able to break the bonds of the grave and thus resurrect of his own power.

That can't be true.

1st. Christ was either all mortal or devine (or Herakles). Mary was not his "mother" she gave birth, but took no part in his creation.

2nd. If Christ could break the bonds of the grave, why dind't he rise the instant he was killed. Why wait three days? Was it not God that proke the bonds for CHrist and ascended him...(as in Herakles)

Originally posted by Alliance
That can't be true.

1st. Christ was either all mortal or devine (or Herakles). Mary was not his "mother" she gave birth, but took no part in his creation. Marry was his physical mother. Christ's genetic makeup was half contributed by Mary. Nothing refutes this.

Originally posted by Alliance
2nd. If Christ could break the bonds of the grave, why dind't he rise the instant he was killed. Why wait three days? Was it not God that proke the bonds for CHrist and ascended him...(as in Herakles) Christ went to preach to those in hell, purgatory, spirit prison, whatever title used to refer to it, breaking the hold it had over the dead. The three days were also meant for symbolic purposes. Christ broke the bonds of death, and ascended to God the Father.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
...No, buddha did not have a divine birth. There is no evidence that Buddha was divine in any respect. That is simply your belief. Buddha was/is a human being, and he was born a sinner just like every other human being. Buddha was/is not the master of anything except his own self-delusion...

No, Jesus did not have a divine birth. There is no evidence that Jesus was divine in any respect. That is simply your belief. Jesus was/is a human being, and he was born a sinner just like every other human being. Jesus was/is not the master of anything except his own self-delusion.


Funny how that work with just the names changed.

Funny how that shows that the statement is NOT true.

Originally posted by Alliance
Funny how that shows that the statement is NOT true.

Correct. I don't believe that Buddha was any more divine then Jesus or the rest of us. Buddha was just a human, just like Jesus. Now, I would bet they were smarter then the rest of us, but that's not divine.

"smarter" is a relative term. Neither would have succeded in my field.

But yes, your general point is right.

Originally posted by Kelly_LS
"Holy mary mother of GOD.... .. " Well, how the frig can Mary be Mother of God when the earth was CREATED by God and Jesus is Mary's son? Im all confuzzled on this junk. If Mary was blessed with a child by God, how was Jesus <God> The one to be put into her stomach?

Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ (in His humanity) because God the Father used her womb to bring His eternal Son (Who has always existed) into the world.

How did God this? God is omnipotent (all-powerful) and with God nothing shall be impossible. The Holy Spirit came upon Mary (who was a virgin at the time) and the power of the Highest (God Almighty) overshadowed her, instantly (by God's unlimited power) she was with Child of the Holy Spirit. It was an absolute miracle because Mary had never known a man (sexually). That which was conceived in her is/was of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God who has always existed prior to being conceived in Mary's womb. Jesus had to become human so that He could die for the sins of the world. The Bible states that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. It further states that the wages of sin is death. There are two kinds of death: spiritual death, which is separation from the life of God. Physical death is what we read about in obituaries. Those who are spiritually dead go to Hell. Those who have eternal life go to Heaven. All people are born spiritually dead and destined for Hell because all people--have sinned and are sinners--by nature. In order to set people free from their sins so that they could have eternal life instead of spiritual death someone must pay for man's sins. No human being was capable of doing this because every human being was already a sinner. So God sent His holy (sinless) Son into the world to be born as a human being so that He could step into man's shoes as it were, pay for his sins by giving up His life, thus releasing man from the consequences of his sins. Man is off the hook now but on one condition: He must still accept Christ death as payment for his sins. Once this is done man can receive eternal life and go to Heaven instead of suffer in Hell.