why isnt carnage the best villain?!
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diamondust
ok guys i only got to get on this spiderman-venom-carnage craze a few days ago when i played maximum carnage, i know its an old game but interesting, too challenging i couldnt complete it. so i was wondering why so many people think that venom is the best villian? i think carnage is the strongest ever. being the offspring of venom, carnage has added abilities like turning his fist into weapons, he has all attributes that venom has like agility, speed, flexibility. no doubt venom is very strong but carnage is actually faster than venom since venom is more massive and carnage is more ruthless in hand to hand combating. it is clearly stated in many sites that carnage is stronger than venom and spiderman thats why in maximum carnage, venom has to team up with spiderman to defeat carnage because they cant do it on their own. also, the being that carnage has possessed is cletus kasady, a sick mental patient. i cant find any ways that carnage is weaker than spiderman and venom. carnage anticipates spiderman and venom's moves. like i said, carnage has all of venom's attributes, he is not weakened by intense sound wherelse venom is, and can dampen spiderman's spider sense. can someone tell me why people prefer venom in spiderman 3 movie instead of carnage?
fever red
Venom comes before Carnage, as he is the origin of Carnage. Also, Venom's history is more personally intertwined with Spidey's history, and it's a Spiderman movie, in an excellent movie series that concentrates, and rightly so, on Peter's personal evolution, not his physical feats. Further, Carnage is dark, very dark, and movie Peter's not there yet- not set in his values yet, sufficiently to face that kind of darkness and assume personal responsibility for confronting it. That's a Mother Teresa level of selflessness, which I think comics Peter has achieved at various points. Movie Peter is still not in that neighborhood of friendly Spiderman-ness.
Red Superfly
Carnage = ultimate fanboy fantasy.
Carnage is great, but when people think he's something greater than the likes of Venom, they are just kidding themselves.
Dazzler619
Fever Red makes a good point. Venom came 1st and we got to see how the whole symbiote saga happen. Carnage is a great villain but he's just too violent than Venom.
Symbiotica
A good question to ask here would be, what exactly is it that makes Venom so much *better* than Carnage?
His symbiote is not more powerful - in fact, it has more vulnerabilities.
Venom is not any smarter than Kasady - I'd say their IQ levels are about equal. It's not like Venom is some Level 9 intelligence or something.
He's not as strong as Carnage.
The only reason we should see him forst is because as others have remarked, he actually DID come first; without Venom there can be no Carnage. As far as his being somehow "better," no.
I'm kinda tired of hearing about how Carnage is "violent" so we shouldn't see him. What Spidey villain is NOT violent?! They're all violent!
Red Superfly
I never said Venom was better.
I said that Carnage isn't greater than Venom. Meaning I consider them about equal.
Nothing wrong with Carnage, it's just that Venom came first.
badsymbiote
Well, obviously, it's a matter of taste. I thought we had all agreed to disagree here, people. I know for a fact that Superfly has no love affair with Venom, so don't read too much into what he's saying--he isn't hostile or anything.
I encourage all of you Carnage fans out there to dote and drone about your boy Kasady-- so, I hope you would reciprocate and allow me to go on and on about why I love Brock and his "other" so much...
Without all the negativity, that is...
fever red
No negativity- and I enjoy Venom, there's a BIG place for him in my heart. He's NOT better than Carnage, nor worse.
__He IS better for the movie series, at this point. The movies are about Peter's process of fully becoming his inner hero, right?
__Peter has more basis/impetus to engage Venom, and Venom more basis/impetus to engage him. They're an issue for one another even in civilian life before the whole super-powered conflict begins. Eddie, as an extremist, an obsessive, someone going a bit postal from inner and outer stress, is a bit of human darkness that is deeper-to-the-bone than Ock and GG, IMO. Why? Because he was less exceptional than either, more representative of your every man. Therefore, he has wider implications. How many people have GG's powerlust, or Doc Ock's megalomania? How many more have Eddie's feelings of disenfranchisement and punitive wrath?
__Facing Venom takes Peter one step deeper into the dark.
__Drop Carnage in first, killing hundreds, and it's awfully abrupt. Peter could, at this point, be fairly expected to throw up his hands and say, this is SO far beyond my ability and is asking too much. Call in the Guard, I'm home to my wife.
diamondust
ahh ic.. thanks fever red
i like eggs
one reason. he sucks ass
fever red
Somebody's a jealous, sexually repressed li'l fellow- scrambled up, I'd say.
__And it isn't Carnage! Hahaheh.
orangepoindexte
Are you joking? Carnage might have more raw power then Venom, and be more dangerous then most of Spideys "normal" villains because of his lunacy... but in terms of "best" he falls well short.
In Venoms case, (orginally anyways), the guy was nothing but a bent-on-revenge machine who would stop at nothing to get even with Spiderman...(though I've long thought Brock should have THANKED Spidey for not wanting the costume himself...but that's another story...) His appearances early on meant that you were in for a treat storywise... there was always suspense in his character and mood that he set when interacting with Spidey; you knew that Spidey was afraid of him.
Are we supposed to get all worked up because the loser shows up in a book every now and then and goes on a mass killing spree killing tons of "nobodys" for no reason? Until the guy kills some kind of superhero he's just a lame Venom rip-off.
I've also always thought that the way the Marvel Universe handled Carnage was very un-realistic... I mean, the guy commits mass murder and DOESN'T get some kind of death sentence and/or his symbiote killed for it? Venom had the jury track him down... how come Carnage doesn't have some kind of renegade force out for his sorry ass?
Seriously... if I was writing I'd have the government contact Reed Richards or develop their own kind of sonic ray gun to kill symbiotes... especially if it meant that as long as he was around there could be countless lives in danger. I've never understood folks' fascination with Carnage...just put the damn gun to the losers head and lets be done with him already.
diamondust
lolol u cant understand y people like carnage. lmao put the sonic gun at his face and he is done. come on man, do u hv the ability to put it infront of him? i think people like carnage for the same reason as i do. not because i am a bad guy but because i aint bad, never been bad, wish so much to be bad. like how much the fken world did to me and i cant do a shit back. carnage can do what he likes and even spiderman needs venom help to take carnage down. sometimes i wish i could be a lunatic, kill those fken people who did me wrong and those people cant do a shit back at me and carnage is fken cool, how much power he has in his hands. he can do what he wants.
orangepoindexte
Maybe... but in that regard he is very 1 dimensional as a character. There is nothing "behind" how he acts... he just mindlessly slaughters people.
Venom killed people because he was after Spidey and they got in his way, Carnage killed people because the writers thought it'd be cool to make an "overpowered" and "unethical" version of Venom.
Do people piss me off in real life? Sure, all the time. Do I sometimes have homicidal thoughts about a choice few of them... without a doubt... I'm human after all.
When evaluating a villain, especially in terms of being the "best", you have to take both what drives them AND how they are handled story wise. Just giving someone powers and letting them kill scores and scores of nobody's doesn't make them great, imo.
I think villains like the Vulture, Hobgoblin, ... hell even Mysterio are 10x better then Carnage. They ALWAYS have some kinds of ulterior motives behind what they are doing, and aren't just depicted as indiscrimant losers out to "ace lots of folks 4 the fun of it!!!1".
If Marvel took the Carnage symbiote away from Cassady and gave it to someone else I don't think many people would complain. I know that I wouldn't.
orangepoindexte
Bah I forgot to address the "sonic gun in his face" part of your response...
Carnage has been captured multiple times in the books, remember. He was defeated by Venom and Spidey in his first appearance... after which the writers felt that he was all cheesy and sh*t enough in those first 3 issues he was in to feature him as the head of a Masters of Evil super-villain type group with Shriek and the rest of the B list villains of spidey at that time.
If I were Spiderman I would have very little problem ending the Carnage symbiotes life if it meant I could ensure peoples' well being in the long run. As I recall the Carnage symbiotes' mass discorporated at the end of Amazing 363... so Spidey assumed that it had died then and there. If he had known it would reform and make Cassady carnage again I've got a hunch he would have 1. either killed Cassady himself 2. let Venom kill him .
I've long wondered what would have happened if the Carnage symbiote had inhereted all it's parents' memories along with it's powers? Meaning what if Carnage had known Spidey's secret identity thanks to the symbiote?
Once Carnage killed one of Spideys relatives he himself would have been put out of his lame ass misery thanks to Parker methinks.
Symbiotica
.... Anyone thinking sonic guns bother Carnage in the least little bit these days obviously has not read Maximum Carnage.
eggs: "bullshit, he is stronger, he is smart, he came first,and he can whip carnages ass. and carnage uses axes and knifes now don't tell me he isn't more violent. that is why he is better."
Who on earth said Carnage wasn't more violent....? He's WAY more violent! This is what makes him fun! Carny has a kill-count numbering in the thousands now, does he not? Rhetorical question only, since obviously Maximum Carnage got past you unread.
Also, as for Venom "whipping Carnage's ass" please post the issue number and the book this happens in. Methinks you cannot, because Venom cannot take Carnage alone. Nor can Spidey.
orange: "Maybe... but in that regard he is very 1 dimensional as a character. There is nothing "behind" how he acts... he just mindlessly slaughters people."
This statement just lets serious Carnage-fans know you have not read all that much about him
Just to make this very plain: I am in no way dissing Venom, or desiring to post hostile sentiments about him - I like Venom a lot. But this kind of thing, it just gets on my nerves: people posting this kind of thing when they know nothing whatsoever about the character. Carnage laughs at sonic guns, and he pretty much laughs at both Spidey and Venom too. Anyone desirous of claiming otherwise, please be prepared to post the book and issue-numbers proving your point; and I will do some checking because I own almost all Carnage appearances, & don't mind research.
Symbiotica
... In fact, here's pictoral proof of my sonic-gun point: nyahnyahNYAH
http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL17/812957/5809649/77890677.jpg
MornGlory
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/mc101.gif
Blaque Cell
Y'know, alot of people don't know this, but I actually like Venom better than Carnage.
Nemo, all we got was a red X. But, if what you said is true, than I am truly ashamed of myself as a Carnage fan, because I completely forgot that Sonic rays don't work on him! Gotta reread Maximum Carnage, I suppose.
Now, as for who is better, it's arguable. I can see why some people find Carnage to be one-dimensional. Of course, stories like "Mind Bomb" add some dimension to the character. I find both he and Venom to be very interesting. I think the reason he's not Spidey's top villain is because they have no personal attachment. Look at the Green Goblin. He and Spidey truly hate each other on a personal level and have dragged each others' families into their feud. Doc Ock and Spidey respect each other on an intellectual level. Spidey was indirectly responsible for screwing up Venom's personal life, not to mention the fact that his family has been personally threatened and frightened by Venom. Carnage doesn't really have any attachment to Peter. Not even mutual respect or hatred. Truth be told, I think Carnage is pretty indifferent to Spider-Man's existence in general. This is not to say that he's not a good villain. He's just not "The Bad Guy". Personally, I'd love to see Norman Osborn step down and have someone else take his place. Maybe Venom, or Electro, another villain who, like Carnage, really hasn't gotten his due.
Dazzler619
Now you know why most people like Venom more
orangepoindexte
Carnage is a great example of what happens to a character who has the writers' on his side. The writers wanted to capitalize on Venoms popularity SOOO they created a "cool ass killing machine!" Venom rip-off that, as Blaque Cell wrote, fails to have much of an impact on long-term story arcs. Love Venom or hate him, you knew that as long as he was out there somewhere he was going to make a beeline for Spidey. Carnage obviously doesn't care who he "frags!!11"... as long as he is mindlessly killing it's all good.
Oh and I have read both Mind Bomb and the entire run of Maximum Carnage... all the stumbling and trifling about by the various later writers who handled the character still couldn't make him a "worthy" villain in my eyes.
An insane over-powered lunatic is still going to be an insane over-powered lunatic even if he has had a troubled childhood/past.
Blaque Cell
You know what's weird about Carnage? He's got a kill count that's somewhere near the thousands, and he's definitely one of Spidey's more powerful villains, but it's still hard to see him as a real threat. I get the feeling that he'll never kill anyone significant. Also, he's been pretty static for the 10+ years that he's been around. I think that changed with the recent Venom/Carnage series, though. What he needs is a goal. At first it was cool for him to just be a killing machine that chose people at random, but after ten years real time, which I assume translates roughly into 2 or 3 years comic book time, the guy's got to have a goal that he's trying to achieve. There's alot of potential to the character. It just hasn't been tapped yet.
Reckoning
Carnage is very one dimensional. The best Spiderman villians had pretexts with his identity; whereas Cassidy was just a random insane lunatic who had a penchant for bloodlust. People don't respond well to these types; there is no complexity and personality attraction in Cassidy.
orangepoindexte
Exactly Blaque... the character was created to be this ubah killing machine and that is what he has been for 10+ years... an ubah killing machine... except when he goes against superheroes.
He will never amount to anywhere near as much as Venom has.
fever red
You don't see the potential? It's because he's so under-developed that he is an excellent charactor to write...also, what we have in canon points to a very interesting direction...
__What's possible with Carnage is a subtle complexity. Yes, subtle...
__A lot of people miss how the charactor lends himself to an exploration of human nature. We are all generally opaque to ourselves in our true motivations...like Carnage, we seize on, or construct, a conscious rationale for behavior we would indulge in anyway. For him, it's "Chaos- I follow/use Choas to free myself."
__He came upon that quite a bit later in life than his first killings, however. So, what motivated them? Fear/anger- he was without a sense of control over his early environment, which he felt threatened by...which made him fearful, which leads to anger. I think he's past this original motivation now but locked into an end battle with the world. It's interesting to me because so many people exibit reflexive behaviors- just not reflexive mass-homicidal behaviors.
Symbiotica
orange: "Carnage obviously doesn't care who he "frags!!11"... as long as he is mindlessly killing it's all good."
Wrong, wrong wrong! While it is true Carnage has nothing against "staying in practice" by killing random people here and there, this is far from always true... this is what makes him dangerous: unlike Venom, it is very difficult to predict exactly what Carnage will do next. He may kill innocent bystanders. He may let someone escape who he really should have killed. You never know.... Carnage is the embodiment of Chaos in the Marvel U. No one should expect much of what he does to make sense.
As far as I am concerned, it really does not matter whether or not Carnage's every waking moment is devoted to an obsessive hunt for Spidey: we already have one person doing that, aka Venom. Why do we need TWO Venoms? We dont: we need Venom, and then we need Carnage to keep everybody else on thier toes and to give Venom absolute Hell. No one takes Venom down a notch or two better than Carny
Carnage interacts with Spidey because usually Spidey insists on seeking him out and trying to corner him; Carnage rarely chases him down to begin with. Is this bad? Depends on your viewpoint... personally I think expecting Spidey to have a deeply personal interaction with every one of his antagonists is unrealistic. Do cops only arrest criminals they've known from childhood IRL? Hell, no they dont! Some people draw the attention of law-enforcement because they are evil and do evil things. Just that.
fever: "I think he's past this original motivation now but locked into an end battle with the world."
Very true.
I think a lot of people here have their minds totally closed to the possibilities here, their loss. The point here is, What is Chaos really, and what does it end up doing/creating/causing? You either "get" Carnage, or you don't.
Symbiotica
orange: "Exactly Blaque... the character was created to be this ubah killing machine and that is what he has been for 10+ years... an ubah killing machine... except when he goes against superheroes."
It's hard to get much done as an "uber-killing-machine" when you're incarcerated for what? About 10 years?
Well, he's out now and we shall see what happens.
Marvel almost NEVER lets the bad guys win; in fact I cannot think of a single instance where that has happened, even when it would fit the story better if it did, a recent example being Norman Osborn's defeat at the hands of... Luke Cage?! Uh, right, that could happen. Anyhoo, I am not sure if this counts as an argument against just Carnage: nobody wins against the heroes.
This stance kind of bores me, but there you go.
fever red
That, plus he's a good-lookin' S.O.B.
Symbiotica
He is indeed.
You know, I would have told you he totally wasn't my type... but for him, I make an exception... the sight of that man makes my knees go weak... why is he so compelling? He is, though.
Dazzler619
Who is? Sorry to interupt the conversation
Red Superfly
Good points, really good points.
As it stands, Venom imo is the best character. Carnage is a load of rubbish.
HOWEVER, I do feel pity for Carnage because he has shed-loads of possibilities, and he is never given his due in the writers eyes. This guy could easily become just as interestingas the likes of the big boys Venom, Green Goblin, Dock Ock etc.
The main problem is the lack of a personal touch. Everyone loves a villain that can rip the hero's life apart, torment Peter Parker as well as Spider-Man. All the greatest villains fight Peter Parker. Carnage doesn't really fall into that stable of the "taken to the next level" villains.
It's a shame. Carnage has long been a favourite of mine, but my interest is waning, badly. The writers STILL haven't found a decent hook with him yet and would rather create contrived rubbish rather than the simple genius of the classic villains.
Carnage is still a by-the-numbers villain.
ANother flip side of the coin is that CAN Carnage be any better? I think he can, but maybe the reason he ISN'T up there with Venom and Ock and Gobby is for a good reason - we all need the chaotic lunatic archetype in these sort of things. Would MORE people complain if Carnage WAS taken to the next level, made more personal beef with Spidey, and so on?
Carnage is a bit of an enigma. Something needs to be done with him, but I for sure don't know what the hell it is.
Constant tagging along in Venom's storylines IS NOT the best way to develop it. He really needs to stand alone without Venom, and as of right now, his character cannot seem to do that. That, to me, is NOT a classic villain.
BloodBird
OH HE IS HE IS BTW IN CASE NO ONE KNEW HE WAS CREATED BY AN EVIL SCIENTIST WHO WHEN CAPTURED SPIDERMAN AND VENOM SPLIT THIER DNA AND MIXED IT WITH A SYMBIOTE CREATED A MONSTER THAT WAS CARNIAGE
orangepoindexte
Well the person posting this thread asked "Why ISN'T Carnage the best villain?" ... and I did my best to answer it.
I like to think I'm a fairly open minded individual; (hell I do write and think up some twisted stuff by most "normal" folks' standards...). To that, I will willingly admit that Carnage has some possibilities both as a villain and a character for future writers to delve into.
HOWEVER, the real stamp of a GREAT villain isn't the total CHAOS factor that you pointed out Cassady possesses in abundance. Instead, villains that have lasting appeal and overall impact on a heroe's life are usually the "thinking" and "calculating" kind... the kind with something driving them other then sheer lunacy.
The only reason Carnage gets by in the books is BECAUSE of his powers, not because of the character himself. In other words if Cassady was equally powered to Venom/Spiderman, (in terms of abilities, strength, etc), he'd be beaten within the span of a page. Instead the writers jacked up his costumes powers to compensate for his lack of forethought as a villain... which gives him a dubious distinction of being a one trick, (albeit supremely chaotic) pony.
Blaque Cell
Sad thing is, I believe Carnage was originally conceived solely for the purpose of capitalizing on Venom's popularity. That's largely part of why his potential hasn't been fully tapped.
Nemo, off the top of my head I can think of two villains who have had definitve victories. Well, arguably two.
First, Green Goblin 2. The whole "Lifetheft" and "Pursuit" ordeal that he orchestrated. That was a deep blow to Spidey, and Spidey couldn't do a thing about it because Harry was already dead. That one's arguable, though.
The second one is Kraven. I seriously saw "Kraven's Last Hunt" as a victory on his part. Of course, that raises the argument that the only way for the villain to win is to kill himself either before or after achieving victory. I'm wracking my brain to see if I can think of any other examples of the villains winning.
fever red
Red, I don't want him to have a personal issue with Parker- I'm with Nemo. Carnage should just be doing HIS thing, with Spidey trying to stop him. To me, that's fresh. It's exciting.
__To take him to the next level, all he needs is more development of his own needs and drives. I thought he was interesting when he kidnapped his child-hood friend, to kill him, and prove that such relationships are unnecessary once you "wake up" to Chaos. There was definitely a suggestion there, of a dissonance between Kasady's memories/conceptions of himself, and reality. Expanded on, that would have entertained me! I'd like to see more of him as the man who wants to divest himself of all weakness- and can't quite break away from his human self, even when a symbiote drops into his lap and makes him virtually unstoppable.
__At the same time, it's impressive to me that he persists. It's fantastic that he takes what he wants- and still isn't satisfied. He's so...human. I love it.
Blaque Cell
Reading that, I kind of think of Kasady as the Agent Smith of Spider-Man's rogues gallery. It's like, Smith takes over the whole Matrix, but it's still not enough. Carnage starts a riot and kills thousands of people, but it just ain't enough. And no matter what, those two evil bastards just won't die.
Which, of course, is why they're two of my favorite villains.
Red Superfly
No Fever, that's what I meant. I was saying that Carnage has his place as the chaotic archetype, and maybe adding more to his character isn't what he needs at all.
I don't really think Carnage was born totally from Venoms popularity either. It's a mix of Venoms popularity and Venoms direction as a villain. As we know, Carnage was brought in as a clear-cut villain, just as Venom was starting to soften up and tread the "neutral" line.
I think Cranage has his place, he's great. What I don't like is these new symbiotes, we alreday have two, and that's borderring on too many. Two feels just right. The likes of Scream are totally pointless and are born out of Carnage and Venoms popularity.
Three symbiotes pushes it into absurdity and ruins the initial setup. Why try and cheapen your own characters by diluting them with more clones? Thats why I never liked the clone saga much, it diluted Spider-Man as a character. Same thing goes for the syms.
Blaque Cell
Red, I'm inclined to agree, but at least Toxin was written as a real character, as opposed to Scream and the others, who were just Carnage clones. Toxin has a unique personality and is actually interesting. But there really shouldn't be any more symbiotes. That would be like making more Goblins.
Whoops, spoke too soon...
badsymbiote
All we need is another Goblin, right? HobGoblin, GreenGoblin, DemoGoblin, it's all done to death.
I agree, Blaque, that Toxin was maybe a bit deeper and more interesting than any of the other offspring, but after hyping up the stories, I've been so let down by the finished products Marvel has been releasing the past year or so.
The work always seems so hurried--they put so much effort into the art, and the stories are really lacking--and there is no really satisfying closure. It's as if they are in such a hurry to get the garbage onto the shelves that they cram what should be a 5-issue arc into three sloppy books.
Maybe I'm being a little harsh, but for me lately, it's the element that we, the readers add that makes buying the comics worthwhile. I like seeing how the Carnage fans will react to a certain book or frame--and interacting with people about the books has really become more enjoyable than the comics themselves, sadly.
orangepoindexte
It isn't the offsprings' fault that they weren't given a damn chance at developing beyond what they did. In my opinion, they developed MORE character in their very few appearances, (mostly in Seperation Anxiety) then Carnage ever has TOTAL. At least they had reasons behind what they did and how they acted.
Carl and Leslie, (the brown and female purple symbiote respectively) had very interesting dialogue in that series... the writer hinted that Leslie was some kind of "peace corps" type-woman whom chose to link with the alien in order to "help people"... and when she found out about the Life Foundations true motives for her linking with the creature, that, (along with the constant and ever present struggle she was in to maintain control over her costume), was made much more horrible for her to bear.
I think that if they had made the number 2 or 3 instead of 5 like they did... the offspring symbiotes would have more fans then detractors.
Nataku8188
And that is why Carnage IS the best Spider-man villain. Well done FR.
fever red
Where've you been? Take off your shirt and get your ruling @ss into the Fortress...BTW, haven't I waited long enough for more of your fic- the future one- or something else? If you've got any new role-play archived, please link us again in the Office.
Blaque Cell
It just occurred to me...I'm indirectly responsible for the no shirt rule...cool.
fever red
No, I hold you directly responsible!
Blaque Cell
Hm...well, I don't wanna see a bunch of guys running around with no shirt...but if Fever's happy, I'm happy.
Little do you all know that Fever and I are consolidating our power. Soon we will rule the KMC forums, and after that, the world!
Hm...Lord Blaque and Lady Red...that's got a very nice ring to it.
doctorstrongbad
Wow you guys are taking over, where do i sign up at? I want to help take over.
Linkalicious
Carnage's weakness isn't his physical strength or his speed....it's his weakness of character. He's a coward, when the going gets truly tough...Carnage gets running.
He can kill and do wanton slaughter to innocents with not a care in the world, but when he is challenged and the challenger proves to be a match for Carnage...then Carnage weakens up. He'd rather turn tail than take an ass whooping.
Venom is a solid character. His hatred for Spiderman is genuine whereas Carnage just hates Spiderman because he gets in the way. Venom is a better developed character with more of a back plot that Carnage...
Aside from that, there is a chronological order of events that needs to take place to accurately depict what happened in the comics....and thus far they have stuck with the comics with Green Goblin being the 1st villain and Doc Ock being the 2nd villain...even with the unmasking.
*Spiderman needs to get the symbiote
*Spiderman needs to reject the bonding of the symbiote
*Spiderman needs to get rid of the Symbiote
*Eddie Brock needs to pick up the symbiote to become Venom
*Venom and Spidey need to fight and Spidey needs to win to send Venom to jail
*Eddie needs to escape jail and leave a spawn of the symbiote in Cletus Kasady's cell making him Carnage
And in all the Venom hype i've heard...I have yet but to hear one plausible scenario involving Venom in the 3rd plot without completely and utterly degrading from the first 2 movies.
doctorstrongbad
That is a good point. I like the way you put a lot of thought into that.
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