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David Koresh claimed to be the reincarnation of Jesus Christ (which is promised by Jesus in the bible, that he would return) and that god spoke to him. We all see what kind of reception he recieved..........yet he claimed nothing more fantastic than the authors of the bible.......his statements actually lended creedence to the ramblings of the bible......that he was physical proof of what had only existed as prophecy before him.

People followed Jesus........they were labeled holy men who formed a religion. People followed his reincarnation David Koresh and were labeled nutjobs and a cult.

since nobody knows for sure or not if David Koresh was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ......or if the big J.C. ever even existed at all.......his claims merit the same regard as those made in the bible.......with one exception. Koresh was a modern man who was knowledgable about the world we live in.........those who wrote the bible were primitives who didn't even know why the grass was green and the sky was blue......I believe his greater knowledge in and of itself merits his claims be taken more seriously than thosed proposed by the primitives who wrote the bible.

why the hypocricy? Why does the word of men who had the intelligence of a 10 year old child relative to today's standards hold more weight with the Christian population than a well informed, knowledgable modern man?


P.S. The Koresh post above is merely an example of the hypocricy......I do not believe David Koresh was the reincarnation of anybody.......I do not believe in reincarnation nor the existance of some magical being born without a father 2000 years ago.

What do you mean "why the hypocrisy"? Are you insinuating that Christians should believe any man who claims hes Jesus?

You know how many people claim to be jesus?

Jesus isnt coming back to be born as a kid again, when he does come back people will know.

how do you know? Your own faith states that he was the embodyment of god on earth........and was born a child and raised to be a man the first time around. Why not the second?

There is nothing left of a 2000 year old body.......it turned to dust long ago. The only way Jesus could physically return is through rebirth. Unless you're now stating that Jesus isn't really a physical person, he's more of a metaphysical being like God.........which would pretty much undermine the core of your religion as it states he was a physical person who taught the word of god.....and died a physical death for all of us.



Doesn't matter. When Jesus returns (ofcourse completely hypothetical given the fictional nature of this entire topic) he will just be one more cat claiming to be Jesus.........and you are going to lump him in with all those false prophets and label him a nutjob.

Call me crazy with my off the wall logic but wouldn't it be better for the Christians to accept all people who claim to be Jesus as just that until proven otherwise? Sure......you may go through 1 million false prophets before reaching the real one........but it sure beats the hell out of ignoring the real J.C. when he returns. Isn't the ol' saying something like, "it's better to be safe than to be sorry".



pretty self evident. Christians except the word of primitive men who've they've never even met......or that the men ever really existed.........but refuse to acknowledge or believe the word of men who aren't primitive....who have a greater deal of knowledge....who we know for sure do exist.

If men are to be taken at their word (as with the bible).......why not all men until proven otherwise? That is hypocricy. Kind of like the ol' Christian "love thy brother"........unless your brother happens to have a redish-brown tint to their skin........in that case you must slaughter them for being savages unless they accept the lord Jesus Christ as their saviour. hypocricy again.........we could go on all day about the hypocricy of Christianity.

not just christianity, all religions

yeah a bunch of nutcases just like that dude long ago who claimed to be the son of god.

Jesus' second coming will be a big massive event, a sort of 'angels with trumpets' sort of thing.

glory glory hallelujah

If it wern't for your other posts, Finti, I would never guess you were being sarcastic.

Jesus was born a child the first time but it will not happen a second time.

Jesus has both a divine and a human nature.



That is incorrect and it simply amounts to your speculation. Given the descriptions in the bible I believe Jesus will come back as a Metaphysical being, there will be no mistaking it.

No it wouldnt be better at all, it would be nonsesical. When Jesus returns, it will not be mistaken.



You insist they were primitive, I disagree.



The bible will not get new additions, it covers from begining to end. Christinaty already has its message, the word of God according to the bible. Beyond that people still do study the bible and try to explain further or what have you God's message. Try to relate things better to today.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds anything to these words, God will add to that person the disasters about in this book.
Revalation 22v18 NCV

So yeah, the bible won't get any new additions.

the bible simply amouts to speculation, so Evil Deads speculation is as good as the biblical

just their way to close it off, it had to end somehow..........

Well anybody could just write that if they wanted no new additions but im pretty sure he was speaking specifically about revelations. None the less, begining to end is covered.



In his own or your own opinion perhaps but it is obviously not in accordance with the Christian faith. It also nonsensical to do what hes suggesting, if you are a Christian.

just as the chrisitan faith is nonsensical to us

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

all u need to know really haha

*sight*

People just have issues with the Christian religion. Not gonna waste my precious time in another antiprocess thread.

That guy is a real nutcase

Thats kinda irrelevant to the point here though. What he is suggesting is simply not in accordance with the Christian teachings so the suggestions are simlpy nonsesical if you are a Christian.

That is alittle crazy to think that a guy could actly be the reincration of JC when it is not possible.And why people believe that he was is just plain stupid.JM

doesnt change the fact that the bible is nonsensical to us

I have never read revelations.. but I thought that according to the bible when the end of the world comes, the Anti Christ and Jesus Christ would both walk the earth and you would have to choose which one to follow, not knowing who is who or something like that. Correct me if I'm wrong.. I'm not exactly a Bible whiz.

Which doesnt change the fact that your statement is simply irrelevant to the point that was being discussed.

I understand that you dont understand/believe whatever. This thread was about Christianity though.

as stupid as beleiving sum1 was the son of god the first time round?

Why is it stupid to believe that somebody could be the son of God?

so?

if it isnt stupid then why is it stupid to beleive that this guy is the son of god aswell then?

why is it that those with the same claim today are considered to be a fraud

So it was unnecessary.



Because it is not in accordance with the Christian Religion.

Some jewish people dont believe that Jesus was the son of God but rather a profit and thats why they remain jews.

Im not going to say something is or isnt stupid, I wouldnt describe it that way. Im just going to tell you that its not in accordance with the Christian faith and therefore it shouldnt be believed by Christians.

but theyre happy to beleive that the original guy was the son of god? with no actual proof, selective and hypocritical surely?

Its simply in accordance with their belief. Their belief is not such that they are supposed to believe any man who claims to be the son of God. Their belief tells them that the son of God has lived and died on earth but will return from heaven. He will be a metaphysical being that will be seen by all.

The whole thing is a belief, they believe want they want just as you do. Christians simply arent supposed to believe that joe schmoe on the street corner is jesus.

so what are they expecting....a big flash of lightning and then he appears where every1 can see him? (just to be picky ill state that the earth is round and there couldnt be a place he could appear where every1 would see him )

basically, what im saying is...what IS the difference between how the original jesus preached and what this guy is doing? Jesus appeared out of nowhere with completely ridiculous claims about being the son of god, with NO proof. exactly the same as this guy is doing

btw u can ignore the first paragraph, that was just to rile a reaction out of u

profit as in an economical gain or a prophet as in a divine inspirational predictor
.............knowing the ways of the jews I guess it is the first one

well the bible is the biggest selling book of all time isnt it?
not bad for a work of fiction eh?

all best selling books are work of fictions

woulda thought the dictionary woulda been up there sumwhere...

click click...........I grew up a Christian........I went to church......I went to bible study........I have read the bible numerous times..........that is why I must point out that you are stating things that are not stated in the Christian faith. You are stating things you believe.......that is in no way supported by the Christian faith.......and is not found in the bible. I shall list a few.







which leads me to this next quote.........a quote from YOU.....talking about others doing exactly what you are doing.



you are adding your own ideas that simply are not stated in the bible........these ideas are what YOU believe, not what the Christian faith believes.

and just so I'm not singling anybody out.......a quote from Jackie Malfoy



unless I missed something in all my years of religion.......Jesus Christ himself was a man.......flesh and blood just as you and me.......and he promised to return. How exactly is it stupid to believe that a man is the reincarnation of Jesus Christ........when it's exactly what he promised.

Promised you a miracle
Belief is a beauty thing
Promises promises - Simple Minds

To have no proof or anything and just to say yes he is the son of god and he came to this world as human is being stupid.It means you could believe in anything sillly like that.JM

I'd like to point out that Jesus also had no proof the first time around............which is why he was only accepted by a few, those who followed him and not everybody. If Jesus had proof to be the son of god everybody would have believed him and he wouldn't have found himself on a cross.

He might not have had physical evidence but he did perform miracles according to those who believed him. So obviously he had something to sway people.

Im not actually adding my own ideas, though I am expanding on ideas.

It says in the bible that Jesus will come from heaven, why would he be reborn as a kid again? It certainly doesnt state such. It does say that Jesus will be seen by all, which my interpretation of that is that he will be metaphyiscal. The descriptions seem to be that of a metaphysical being aswell. Angels coming and such.

I have not changed anything.

1. it wasn't really a miracle if it was only believed by those who already believed him. Any actions he performed was already within the realm of reason for his followers because they already believed him to be the son of god and capable of doing such actions. It would only be miraculous to those who didn't believe him and didn't find those actions possible.............so your last post is kind of moot.

2. please reply to the post I made earlier (5 posts up)

They (including the apostles) believed him after witnessing his miracles.

And if Jesus hadn't gone on the cross, there would have been no point for him coming down.

People believed him to be the saviour because a saviour was being expected at that time, as foretold in the old testament prophecies. He proved who he was through miracles, and he came to die on the cross so that all others may be forgiven of their sins through him.

comming down from the cross?

didnt prove it to the jews

well ED i appreciate your post and i think you raise a good question. How will christians know if they are passing up christs second coming after it comes??
well here is some things jesus said himself as to clarify what to look for and to beware of people that say they are him and are not.
"For there shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and show great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall devieve the very elect...."

an about the true second coming.

"For as lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west, so shall the coming of the son of man be,"
then it says shortly afterwards
"And then shall apear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the on of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory"

So this is a heads up to people of the christian faith what to look for and what to be weary of. He is not making his people play a guessing game.
And just how jesus fullfilled the prophecy about his coming the first time, the second coming will go alongside these prophecies.
On a side note as well i find it very interesting that one of the prophecies about jesus' first coming said that he would he hung on a tree. why did it say a tree and not a crucifix? That sort of execution of the crucifix was not existent yet, so when the prophet siad "tree" it was probably his best way of describing the things he was shown. It is quite fascinating.

Its quite funny you said "didn't prove it to the jews" as well on this note too finti considering that part of the "proof" and prophecie fulfilled is that jesus' WAS rejected by the specific jewish people that killed him. take note as well though that many of jesus' followers were jewish.

Anyway interesting post EDand i respect of your use of logic

From heaven

Because when he returns he will be a metaphysical being, there will be no mistaking it. It talks about his return in the bible and it doesnt have to do with being reborn.



I wouldnt know about evidence as to where or not Jesus existed. Ill check up on that one.

Jesus as we see it today did not exist. It could have been a movement, revolution, prophet, or nutjob that is the real "jesus".

However, I believe he was the son of God. But the Bible... ugh the Bible pisses me off.

the Bible is pretty much the only source for a god the christians belive in.

That's what I somewhat understand about the Christian belief. Certain Christian sects believe JC will not return as a preacher or as teacher. Instead he will return as a Judge and executioner who will trial both the living and the dead. I don't recall anywhere saying something about JC being reborn and coming back to preach. But I'm not Christian follower or have issues with the Christian faith or its followers. So pretty much I'm must wild guessing.

thats all of what the followers of the christian faith do to

?? if u believe he's the son of god, then y does the bible piss u off?

He disagrees with what he sees as hipocrsy and negative views. I think.

so he agrees with parts of thebible but wiht others not? May I say WTF.

Jesus will not come back as somebody else. He will come back as himself...period. He will return in the body He had when He was resurrected.

believe anything silly like believing there is a god

so he will come back in a wheel chair then

actually thats ****ed up poor guy. I think the first thing he should do is go to Mac Donalds and get soem fat and then see a doctor, you know since his knees are crushed and he got stabbed and all.

Oh anyway where in the bible does it ****king say that?

I didn't mean the body that was practically destroyed...the body he recieved when he was resurrected...

Plus in the Bible...when Jesus asended into Heaven, an Angel told the disciples who witnessed it..."He will return just as He has left you." Which means he will come from the sky, and everyone will know about it.

who said the disciples told the truth

Christianity is about faith and trust....The Disciples are telling the truth.

and proof of that are?

the standard answer finti: because they say so

Yerssot

Let it simply be said that we know more about the details of the hours immediately before and the actual death of Jesus, in and near Jerusalem, than we know about the death of any other one man in ALL the ancient world.

The disciples had nothing to gain by lying and starting a new religion. They faced hardship, ridicule, hostility, and martyr's death. In light of this, they could have never sustained such unwavering motivation if they knew what they were preaching was a lie.

Without belief in the resurrection the Christian faith could not have come in being. The disciples would have remained crushed and defeated men. Even had they continued to remember Jesus as their beloved teacher, his crucifixion would have forever silenced any hopes of his being the Messiah. The cross would have remained the sad and shameful end of his career. The origins of Christianity therefore hinges on the belief of the early disciples that God had raised Jesus from the dead.

When therefore the disciples began to preach the resurrection in Jerusalem and people responded, and when religious authorities stood helplessly by, the tomb must have been empty. The simple fact that the Christian fellowship, founded on belief in the resurrection, came into existence and flourished in the VERY CITY where he was executed and buried is powerful evidence for the historicity of the empty tomb.

Think about it! People in biblical times were just as skeptical as YOU. All they had to do to end Christianity was produce the dead body of Jesus Christ. But... it never happened! And so we talk about it 2,000 years later.

"Eighty and six years have I served Him, and He hath done me no wrong. How can I speak evil of my King who saved me?" - Polycarp (a disciple of John) just before being burned alive for his faith at age 86

it aint a problem to hide a dead body

Finti

Relevant comment, but it's absolutely weak. The tomb was guarded by Roman soldiers and there are other aspects to consider. You would know of these things if you studied. As a matter of fact, the most authoritive Atheists don't even argue about the tomb! It's a dead issue. And, you overlooked the resurrection, which confirms the deity of Jesus Christ. If it were not true, people would not subject themseleves to death and torment. Would you go to jail over a lie a friend told you? Would you die for it?

People naturally analyze things of this magnitude. Your not the only one. It's a healthy thing! Continue to do so. However, it's imperative to study the facts and not allow your own philosophy to corrupt thruths without considering ALL related issues.

Christianity is not a leap into the dark. It's factual. People as skeptical as you become believers all the time. I was one. As previously stated in other messages in different forums, every book I have about Christianity was written by Atheists that converted!

I don't know you. But, you seem to have a saucy attitude regarding religion in general. Don't you think something of this nature requires indepth study to make a more accurate assumption? Honestly, how much have you studied? Level with me. Buy the book "The Case for Christ".

I know according to the NT the tomb was guarded, doesnt mean its the truth though, and who are these so called most authorative atheist? The reason why atheist wouldnt argue about the tomb is they dont buy the story at all.
I didnt overlook the resurrection, I dont believe in any ressurection, to me that is just some thing the followers of jesus claimed to have happened. Some Elvis fans really believe Elvis to be alive so............
And people who really wanna believe and suppoert a cause do go to jail even if the cause ends up to be alie. Just look at what lengts the Branch Davidians went because of their beliefs, and look what happened in Jonestown in Guyana 1978, all because of belief. Was they right?, NO people with faith like yours become sceptics all teh time

Ive studied christianity for 9 years, in Norway it is mandatory to have it in school.

maybe thats because they needed to prove and understand their own convertion

Um ever hear of the anti-christ people can't trust everybody to be christ. Plus he's coming back at the end of the world.

Finti

We are finally communicating! Thank you.

I understood everything that you said. Regarding the empty tomb, atheists and skeptics alike, no longer bring up the issue as substantial evidence to support their views; NOT because they know without a doubt that they are right, but because they know they are wrong. Why try and convince someone that 2005 Corvettes do not come stock with 400 horsepower?

In response to your comment about people simply stealing or hiding the boby of Jesus Christ creating a hoax, simply carries no weight. Jesus Christ was a superstar (for lack of a better word), and anyone or persons hiding his body would have been identified in the long run.

Try stealing the body of President Reagon, sure you could pull a stunt like that off with time and preperation, but you'd eventualy be caught and identified. You can't just simply hide the body of someone as famous as President Reagon or Jesus Christ for the matter. People gossip, including persons that could commit such actions. They would tell at least one person!

During the Golf War, CNN News crews were on the battle field with U. S. soldiers. Saddom Husseins's own troops were surrendering to camera men! What? How could CNN crews get information as to the where abouts of U. S. soldiers; information that Saddom Hussein would love to have? Gossip. It all starts with one person telling another, and the news begins to snow ball. Government information leaks ALL the time, and it's due to gossip.

Think about all the gossip you heard of in highschool. So and so is dating her or him, so and so and going to fight after school, so and so got suspended from school today for whatever, so and so has an STD, so and so is pregnant, the list goes on. Look at Micheal Jackson's trial. Secret confessions and court details are now avaliable to view on the internet!

As for the resurrection? If a man came forth and stated that he was President Reagon, after being dead all this time, would be considered mentally unstable and that he obviously has problems. But, if it actually was President Reagon, people would be AMAZED! The impact would be so great, that future generations would know about it. The story would NEVER die.

Elvis? Who STILL believes that Elvis is still alive? I'll entertain this and say that a thousand believe. Well, what kind of impact have they had on the world? Virtually none. As new generations are birthed, he will be forgotten, because there is no substance behind the notion; no eyewitness accounts or anything, just true fans believing that he his. Today, nobody talks about Elvis in the context that he is still alive, they talk about his music. And that's that.

Tell the cashier at the local 7-11 that you saw Elvis in the mall the other day and you will be laughed at and labeled strange. Try getting people to support you in your efforts in building a religious team of some sort in belief that Elvis is alive. It would NEVER happen! Impossible!

But 2,000 years later, people ALL over the world worship Jesus Christ, and you think this is due to ridiculous stories and idiotic lies that people casually talked about and excepted? People are not that naive and stupid.

in those days it wasnt all that hard to get away from stuff like that dont compare it with todays situation cause the investigation scene today carries tools that uncovers lead found around the scene.

actually people are that naive, because they want to believe it cause it makes such a good story.
You say gossip spread the word, somehow they have been unable to detect the body of Jimmy Hoffa, event prominent Nazi was able to flee into hiding. So the fact that Jesus just showed himself to the people that was "his" people raise certain suspicions, if it really would be something he would have shown himself to the likes of the Roman leaders like Pilate and the elders of the Jewish leaders that condemned him, but when it only was to his followers and just a few of them as well it smells hoax a long way.

How do you know people were that naive? Are you applying your own philosophy?

easy, cause people blindly accept things as they are just because they said so on the news

Finti

If someone informed you of a vision or experience they had, and it was incredibly idiotic (like a man rising from the dead), you would either ignore it, or look further into those claims. You would not however, except those visions or experiences without ground evidence or eyewitness accounts. Why? Because you would be smart and intelligent in doing so.

If I told you that an alien asked me for 10 dollars to put gas in his spaceship, you'd think I was out of my mind! You wouldn't except it for face value! It would be foolish to do so. However, if I showed you substantial evidence that it did occur, you'd soon believe me. Believing things of this magnitude without evidence goes against reason and human nature. The same applies to the risen Jesus Christ. "Hey... Jesus rose from the dead!" "Oh really... how do you know?" "Well, because I said so!" "Oh, okay, I belive you then, thanks." People in those time has commen sense too.

I don't understand how you think people just gave into some "supernatural" story because a couple of people said it was true and those thousands of people committed intellectual suicide and just believed for the heck of it?

As for the news, they report stories on war, economy, buisness, government, science, local crime, lottery winners, etc. They DO NOT report stories about green goblins and witches! In short, someone believing the news on TV does not require intellectual suicide, even though it may be wrong. They are not talking about the "supernatural". Understand?

If I told you that I won a million dollars, you might just believe me? Why? Because there is nothing ridiculous about that. People win the lottery. No big deal. If I told you that God gave me a million dollars, that definately put's a spin on things doesn't it? How about seeing the risen Jesus? Yes? Right?

For people to believe in the risen Jesus, there must have been substantial evidence or eyewitness accounts! Again, you can't just make claims like that and expect it to live for future generations if it were not true. LIES HAVE A SHORT LIFE SPAN! And further more, why would you make such claims knowing thay you could possibly die for it?

TRY STARTING YOUR OWN RELIGION AND WATCH WHAT HAPPENS. GRAB A FEW FRIENDS AND HAVE THEM ASSIST YOU. YOUR AMBITIONS WILL DESTROYED BY PEOPLE WHO KNOW BETTER. YOU WILL WIND UP IN A ROOM WITH PADDED WALLS.

If I told you, that an alian told me that it was going to destroy the world in the year 2007, would you believe me? Why or why not?

Substantial?
No.
There is NO evidence.
There was no immediate enormous upsurge of Christianity after Jesus' death.

People only began writing about him decades after his crucifixion.

strange that jesus didnt show himself before some one with more authority than his own followers

Tex

As a matter of fact, scriptures were written 30 to 50 years after Jesus' death. In ancient times, that's extremely fast in comparison to other historical figures like Alexander the Great or Buddah, which were written 500 to 1,000 years after death. In short, when scriptures were written about Jesus, the people who saw Him were still alive! Again, people need tangible (substantial) evidence to have faith in anything. Simply writing a book (however many years after) or making a few claims of inspiration will NOT win hearts.

People have more intelligence than cows, and so do YOU. You only lack faith because you have not studied science, archeology and secular history. People who were alive in the times of Jesus "actually" saw and touched Him, spoke and ate with Him. Again, for the 3rd or 4th time... LIES HAVE A SHORT LIFE SPAN.

Finti

You never answered my question. If I told you that an Alien TOLD ME that it was going to destroy the world in 2007, would you believe me? Why or why not?

and how, ushomefree, do you know it's not one big fairytale? cause you certainly need to have a big faith to believe this

I dont believe in aliens so no I wouldnt have believed you

I just dont have faith because I do not believe, has nothing to so with either of the subject mentioned

believed to be , but they aint certain of the time the scriptures were written.

Finti

You are absolutely correct. The EXACT date as to when scriptures were written about Jesus are unknown, and perhaps always will be. Historians however, agree that they originated 30 to 50 years after the death of Jesus. And some even state that they were written 60 to 80 years after death. It's true, no one knows for sure. Does that surprise you? We are not talking about yesterday's newspaper. Remember... that historians argue as to when the scriptures were written, not over authenticity! How they make decisions on when they were written is unknown to me? Ask a historian or read a book about it. Perhaps in my later studies I will learn?

Stating that you wouldn't believe in the notion that I attained future knowledge of the world through an Alien does not surprise me. Your smarter than that. No one would. Maybe children, but not mentally stable adults. It would be silly to do so, for it goes against logic and common sense thinking. But, if I brought an Alien to your house, you might have a change of thought on the issue.

Claims of this caliber reflect those of early Christians stating the resurrection of Jesus Christ. If it were not true, the vast majority of people would not believe in such idiotic claims. So, there really must have been a resurrection. If not, Christianity would have died, and we wouldn't be talking about it today, some 2,000 years later. No one would care. Lies and fabricated stories surrounding Jesus would have been rejected like Enquirer magazine headlines. Jesus walks after death (ha ha ha)! What fools!

But, people DID believe in this unnatural act. I doubt such believers were mentally dead or were looking for kicks in joining a new cult, only to pay the ultimate price... death.

one clue is to search for mentioning of or lack of mentioning events that they know the more or less exact date for. Example the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem year 70 a.d.
If they mentioned the destruction of as an event , the scripture dates to after year 70.
If they described the destruction as a prophecy they are dated to before 70 a.d.
Now it aint a trick to have written the scriptures after the destruction but yet tell the tell as it hasent happened yet and thus a prophecy. Many historians argue whether this is the case for at least two of the gospels.

that would have been a substantial evidence

the jews believe in the old testament which is much older than the NT, yet there is no hard fact evidence for any events of the OT, yet they still believe

people believe what they see Roy and Siegfried and Gregory & Kristi Gleason do too

Finti

Thank you for pointing out the obvious in stating that the Old Testament is older than the New Testament and that people held it to be true. And again, it's obvious you haven't learned much in your studies. The Old Testament is nothing to be quarreled with, due to it's massive amount of prophecy and scientific knowledge.

How important is prophecy? Some people might believe that prophecy is interesting, but is not especially important. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Prophecy is a key standard the Bible tells us to use to "test" whether something is trully from God (Deuteronomy 18:19-22).

This standard is obviously critical. It means that words spoken, writings, and information of all types that are claimed to be from God should be judged based on any prophecies made. If a holy books is supposed to be inspired by God, it must be 100 percent accurate regarding all prophecies. This is a big problem for the holy books of some religions.

ONLY the Bible commands its readers to "test everything" (1 Thessalonians 5:21). ONLY the Bible is 100 percent accurate in hundreds of specific prophecies!

Here is just one example: Look at the 2,500 year old prophecy which was fulfilled on December 11, 1917: The Turks of the Ottoman Empire controlled the Middle East for 400 years. There were powerful warriors; nobody could defeat them. But something miraculous happened. Isaiah 60:8 predicts that the airplane would come into existence: "Who are these that fly like birds to their windows?" Then Isaiah 31:5 says, "As the birds flying, so will the Lord defend Jerusalem." What could that have meant? On December 11, 1917, General Allenby - leading troops in the Middle East - sent two pilots over the land. The fierce Ottoman warriors saw these planes flying like birds and they were petrified; they dropped their guns and fled the land. It was one of the few wars ever to be won without a single bullet! God's prophecy had been fulfilled - and it was preparing the way for the return of the Jews, which happened on May 14, 1948.

The account of creation alone makes the Bible unique among holy books and reveals a fingerprint of God. Genesis 1 provides an amazing, accurate account of creation that has recently been fully confirmed by the scientific world. Some highlights of the lastest evidence include:

The order of creation events, in precise agreement
with science.

The implication of the beginning of time
(Genesis 1:1; see also 2 Timothy 1:9;
Titus 1:2; 1 Corinthians 2:7) now confirmed
by the general theory of relativity.

Obviously, Moses had to have divine revelation just to KNOW the events of creation. No other holy book contains that information. But even if the creation events were common knowledge then, (which is impossible, because people were just plain stupid in those times right Finti) the odds of his guessing the correct order was about 1 in 4 million - simular to the odds of winning a state lottery.

so lets here thiese so called prohecys and scientific knowledge.
Lets see as an example, noahs ark, the exodus two major parts of the OT that there is no evidence for besides the writings in the OT.

the jews dont call it the old testament, I wrote that because some dont always understand what its all about. glad to know you were able to see the difference.

And for your info, prophecys are easy to say they were about after a event, yet the signifisence might not be true to the original prophecy

what scientific world has confirmed what exactly?

for your info the Ottoman empire had an airforce , it was founded in 1911 so planes wasn exactly new to the Ottoman forces, and the Ottoman soldiers who were under command of the German Erich von Falkenhayn had a low moral due to British succes in the battles around Jerusalem prior to december 11. Both General Allenby and General Von Falkenhayns had been instructed to avoid fighting in and around Jerusalem itself. So the Ottoman retreat out of Jerusalem was out of lack of success in their counter attack and being hammered by the Brits. The Ottomans suffered losses around 25 000 soldiers during the Allenby campaign. So the story of the Ottomans fleeing with the sight of some planes are a load of hogwash, Jerusalem fell cause the Ottomans took a hell of a beating so they retreaded to prepare a counter attack which they launched on december 26th which was unsuccessful.
But I aint surprised christians trying to claim that victory as a fulfilment of a prophecy, they have "stole" much of its religion from other mythologies so why not try to take the true events as well and make a it something out of their beliefs as well. as birds flying yeah what a laugh

just reading in, but the entire thing about the gospels being created between 30 and 50 A.D. is bull, the YOUNGEST gospel is estimated to be between those two.
The oldest, I believe, was estimated to be from 120 A.D.

between those two would be 40 ad or in other words sometime between 30 and 50 a.d.
Yersie you just said the exact same thing just in other words

if jesus was jewish then how come the people who call themselves the followers of jesus dislike jews? i want to know that i hate being jewish and having to explain that jesus was jewish it is so flipping anoying

well according to some book it was the jews who was responsible for his crusifixtion

jesus was soooooooo great!











...for a conman

ok.. so theres a thread with a plea to stop hating on satanism.. but then theres a thread devoted to bashing christianity... theres a hipocricy in itself

ohh great avvy and sig there, Clash rules loved them ever since my brother bought London Calling for me for xmas 1979

true but the one who made the thread (me ) Hasn't bashed christ at all. So nobody here is really being a hypocrit because nobody on that thread actually 100% agreed with me.

Jesus was Gods spirit in the flesh, in revelations John only sees ONE God on the throne, not 2, not 3. No you do not choose between the anti-christ and Christ when Jesus comes back, those already saved will be raptured before that, then Gods spirit will totally leave the world. At that point if you are still here and go against the anti-Christ you will have to die in order to be saved. Jesus does ome back againto make the earth anew, and rule for a thousand years. As for The Bible, it did not make sense to me until I got saved, now it is very clear. There are stilla lot of questions unanswered, but as humans we are not supposed to know everything, but lare supposed to live in faith. The Lord said ther would be no sign given to this generation, he does not owe us anything, He died for us.

I studied pre-trib. rapture, but did you know that is a new teaching from the last 200 years or so. I also studies mid-trib, and post-trib and if this thing happens, it will be post- trib. If you look at the verses carefully you'll see that you will see the Antichrist. I can't remember where it is at this moment. Some people were taught like I was that the Antichrist is a man, or pope even, but many believe it's a system, or belief. Some believe it the lawless (the ones that don't keep Gods 10 commandments), because the Antichrist changes times and laws and God would only be concerned with HIS laws. the changing of times would be the day of worship on the day that God said is holy, which is the Sabbath, not Sunday. That day was changed by a mere man, the pope in 325 ad.

There are just too many scenarios, so I'll just watch and see which one is right.

The anti-christ is also the person who will start a world government, denouncing all religion, and creating a false one, which will be world/self focused, and it will people away from God. I personally believe pre-trib is the most likely one.

Every religion that claims divine revelation from god and boasts a savior is a false religion.

God has never spoken to or through anyone.

Although that anti-christ you speak of above seems like a very smart person! The world would be a much better place if humanity was more self focused on improving itself.

which religion isnt?

well if this anti christ is able to do so , I guess I have to say that those so called faithful and devoted religious people probably aint so faithful and devoted religious people after all. They are just a sheep herd who will follow whatever and whoever