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Who do you think would win.

I am going with Thor on this

Apocalypse 100%

A Asgardian God versus a shapeshifting mutant. The suspense is tingling.
Thor wins this by a mile.

Apocalypse can augment his strength by psionically drawing on outside energy sources. Apocalypse can alter the atomic structure of his body at will in order to change his form. He can even increase his size by taking on additional mass from a presumably extra-dimensional source. Through his ability to alter his form, Apocalypse can give himself virtually any superhuman physical power. He can levitate himself telekinetically he can change his hand into a hudge cannon if he wanted. He has a basic ability to teleport as well. He has thousands of years of experience. This will not be a mile victory experience is the key to winning, Then power

Hes not just a shapeshifter

difficult one... but id still say thor. apocalypse is a very powerful mutant no doubt, but now that thor has his runes and everything, i think he'll pretty much own apoc.

Blast! I hate it when someone has superior knowledge about a comic book character I know nothing about. Never liked AP anyway. Still say Thor

hahaha not supose to tell people that

Apoc, because he's more than a pretty face.

To elaborate: Apoc has demonstrated the ability to acquire and use celestial technology. Thor, rune shmune and all that odin jazz included, is simply outclassed here in the brains department. He'll need help from his hero buddies.

affirmative

Classic Thor?He would have to fight with all he has, GodForce included.
Actual Thor?
Odin's Power
Mastery over Asgardian Rune
Mjolnir
He's strong as he has never been.
Apocalypse Celestial hi-tech devices doesn't count.It's like giving prep time to Batman.Anyway, Thor would be able to put down him anyway.
Why?Cause he has more powers, and Apocalypse without technology cannot reach his strenght and resistance level sufficiently fast before he gets knocked down.

Apocalypse has tabs on everone he keeps track of ever thing everone can do. How do you think he took over the world in aoa and he is about to do it again there is about to be a new aoa.

I go with Apoc on this one.

Originally posted by Mainstream
I go with Apoc on this one. Thor.

depends which thor actually

Originally posted by bigbran
Thor.

Originally posted by spidey-dude
depends which thor actually Classic Thor wins... go from there...

thor

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Classic Thor wins... go from there... I can see Apocalypse taking some wins from Classic Thor, however I wouldn't give Apoc a strong majority, or a majority at all against the current Thor. I'd like to see it, though.

Thor wins.


Ult Apoc imo would make a better fight.

Originally posted by bigbran
Classic Thor wins... go from there... Was I wrong?

Probably

Probably.

Thor, but Apocalypse will put up a fight and then some.

Really depends IMO. Brute force isn't really going to work to Thor's benefit, Apocalypse can make himself stronger than Thor and give himself extra limbs to grapple with and restrain Thor while he pummels and blasts him, and he has the tools to own Thor (shields, teleportation, morphing around attacks, energy absorption). KMC's Anti-Apoc meme not withstanding, I think Apoc might have what it takes for at least a 5:5 split, if not a 6/10 swing either way. Apoc was shown as a peer (or superior, depending on one's point of view) of High Evolutionary at one point. He's never been weak, just a plotting villain archetype who gets his schemes thwarted.

Apocalypse runs at Thor, and axe hugs him. Now what

lots of love for poccy. I wonder how long it'll last

Originally posted by 753
lots of love for poccy. I wonder how long it'll last Delph's always been a huge Apoc fan.

I've always liked him, but only just discussed things about him, Xplosive is like the original Apoc fan on this site.

It also helps that he got a monster strength feat

Remender's doing a good job of making everyone look good in his books.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Delph's always been a huge Apoc fan.

I've always liked him, but only just discussed things about him, Xplosive is like the original Apoc fan on this site.

It also helps that he got a monster strength feat yeah psycho gundam is also a big fan. I suppose more fans will come out of the closte now that he's packed enough feats to be taken seriously again

Thor beats him up. No more Celestial Armor to hide in.

Seriously what a little b*tch: "You cheated."

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor beats him up. No more Celestial Armor to hide in.

Seriously what a little b*tch: "You cheated." what a little thorbag you are

apoc never utilized his full repertoire against thor...he could simply grow to the size of a skyscraper and grab thor with one hand and step on him

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Thor beats him up. No more Celestial Armor to hide in.

Seriously what a little b*tch: "You cheated." You say this while Thor ran away in the same comic to enchant his weapon...

At least he didn't run like a b1tch after getting whooped, lol.

thor got beat so bad he had to go crying to his daddy

Yeah, the characterization there was pretty lame, honestly. That sequence made no sense. I realize Apocalypse is arrogant, but just standing there and letting Thor have a free shot, then crying foul when the anti-Celestial spell cut through him. He should have just blocked the damn blow.

Originally posted by Starscream M
what a little thorbag you are

apoc never utilized his full repertoire against thor...he could simply grow to the size of a skyscraper and grab thor with one hand and step on him

Are you talking about young Thor or current Thor?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Are you talking about young Thor or current Thor? I don't see why it couldnt be effective in both

Originally posted by Starscream M
I don't see why it couldnt be effective in both

Well, there's a staggering difference between a Mjolnir-less younger Thor and current Thor with Mjolnir and what they can do offensively and defensively.

Yeah, let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Adult Thor with Mjolnir is a different beast. I don't believe Mjolnir has been enchanted with that Odin anti-Celestial spell given his interactions with Celestials and Stellaris, so Apocalypse should still have the tools to split. Young Thor with his axe almost got one-shotted, but that's a different Thor.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, there's a staggering difference between a Mjolnir-less younger Thor and current Thor with Mjolnir and what they can do offensively and defensively.
Apocalypse has more than likely evolved his body since that encounter as well.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, there's a staggering difference between a Mjolnir-less younger Thor and current Thor with Mjolnir and what they can do offensively and defensively. young thor's durability is no different than adult thor's

Originally posted by Starscream M
young thor's durability is no different than adult thor's

Would you care to do a feat comparison between the two?

Yeah, Young Thor staggered the dick out of Gorr, and his sharp hammer was likely not enchanted back then

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Apocalypse has more than likely evolved his body since that encounter as well.

If Apocalypse used a forcefield or teleports the axe away Thor dies that day.

Split or edge to Thor.

What I don't get is, WTF does "young" Thor mean in the context of this fight? He's THOUSANDS (millions?) of years old. What possible difference would 800 or so years make (between this showing vs Apoc and his current self) in his physical prowess? He was just missing Mjolnir, that's it. Everything else should be more or less equal to "current" Thor.

That's like me saying it was a "young" Apocalypse that took on "young" Thor.

Originally posted by Starscream M
young thor's durability is no different than adult thor's

Yes, it is.

Young Thor hasn't reached his peak strength and raw physical power. If you think Apocalypse could do the same thing he did to young Thor to current Thor and get the same results, I'd suggest looking at everything Thor's endured since he first came to Earth in modern times. And I'm talking about his averages, not his ridiculous high end feats.

Originally posted by Starscream M
young thor's durability is no different than adult thor's

Mjolnir's energy soak and ability to generate shielding are a big factor.

Originally posted by zopzop
Split or edge to Thor.

What I don't get is, WTF does "young" Thor mean in the context of this fight? He's THOUSANDS (millions?) of years old. What possible difference would 800 or so years make (between this showing vs Apoc and his current self) in his physical prowess? He was just missing Mjolnir, that's it. Everything else should be more or less equal to "current" Thor.

That's like me saying it was a "young" Apocalypse that took on "young" Thor.

Feats, really. Also the fact that when we've seen flashbacks to Thor in ancient times, we've gotten narration of Thor not having yet reached his physical peak.

Unless you want to take that feat of Apocalypse and think the same thing would happen to a guy who, chronologically speaking in universe, has endured some ridiculous stuff since then.

Originally posted by zopzop
Split or edge to Thor.

What I don't get is, WTF does "young" Thor mean in the context of this fight? He's THOUSANDS (millions?) of years old. What possible difference would 800 or so years make (between this showing vs Apoc and his current self) in his physical prowess? He was just missing Mjolnir, that's it. Everything else should be more or less equal to "current" Thor.

That's like me saying it was a "young" Apocalypse that took on "young" Thor.
You said what I wanted to say. Thor is probably way older than Apocalypse, so Apocalypse was "young" as well.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Mjolnir's energy soak and ability to generate shielding are a big factor. yes, thats true...but that doesn't change the fact that thor's actual durability is no differnt

The Apocalypse fight happened like 120 years apart from the Gorr fights

Originally posted by Starscream M
yes, thats true...but that doesn't change the fact that thor's actual durability is no differnt

It is. And it's supported by feats and statements.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Yes, it is.

Young Thor hasn't reached his peak strength and raw physical power. If you think Apocalypse could do the same thing he did to young Thor to current Thor and get the same results, I'd suggest looking at everything Thor's endured since he first came to Earth in modern times. And I'm talking about his averages, not his ridiculous high end feats.

Fight took place in 1100 AD per the comic. That wasn't teenage Thor, but it was pre-Mjolnir worthy Thor. I don't think Thor waited until the 1900s to 'bloom'.

Originally posted by Starscream M
yes, thats true...but that doesn't change the fact that thor's actual durability is no differnt

Then you'll have no trouble posting durability feats for "young Thor" that match those of classic/current Thor.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Fight took place in 1100 AD per the comic. That wasn't teenage Thor, but it was pre-Mjolnir worthy Thor. I don't think Thor waited until the 1900s to 'bloom'.

By feats, Thor from the modern age is physically superior to Thor from flashbacks, even when he has Mjolnir. Plus we have multiple instances where Thor actually wields Mjolnir as a teenager and he didn't have anything close to the feats as he does in the modern era.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then you'll have no trouble posting durability feats for "young Thor" that match those of classic/current Thor. durability does not change as one ages

as much as you'd like to give that attribute to thor, he has the same durability as he did centuries ago

Originally posted by Starscream M
durability does not change as one ages

as much as you'd like to give that attribute to thor, he has the same durability as he did centuries ago

Then you'll have no trouble posting durability feats for "young Thor" that match those of classic/current Thor.

Originally posted by Starscream M
what a little thorbag you are

apoc never utilized his full repertoire against thor...he could simply grow to the size of a skyscraper and grab thor with one hand and step on him

Yea, that's what will happen. Shut up.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
You say this while Thor ran away in the same comic to enchant his weapon...

Yea, Thor retreated to even the odds. I didn't berate him for fleeing from Thor, I mocked him because he was whining like a *** the moment he lost the advantage.

The Apocalypse fight reminds me heavily of the hype behind Bor and the whole "Had he not had Odinforce, he would be kill!!!!"

But now the narration is being ignored, and suddenly Thor was doing spells to harden his durability apparently.

Thor fans, amirite Bruce?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Fight took place in 1100 AD per the comic. That wasn't teenage Thor, but it was pre-Mjolnir worthy Thor. I don't think Thor waited until the 1900s to 'bloom'.

I actually have no idea how old this version of Thor is. He's directly referred as young and is obviously no grown-up Thor but he looks like a pretty grown man despite him only receiving Mjolnir in his mid-late teens classically.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
The Apocalypse fight reminds me heavily of the hype behind Bor and the whole "Had he not had Odinforce, he would be kill!!!!"

But now the narration is being ignored, and suddenly Thor was doing spells to harden his durability apparently.

Thor fans, amirite Bruce?

Who's ignoring the narration?

No one denied that Apocalypse was a beast in that fight. He was obviously noticeably stronger than Thor.

That being said, Apocalypse lost the Death-Seed powered up Celestial Armor no?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
The Apocalypse fight reminds me heavily of the hype behind Bor and the whole "Had he not had Odinforce, he would be kill!!!!"

But now the narration is being ignored, and suddenly Thor was doing spells to harden his durability apparently.

Thor fans, amirite Bruce?

Not really the same thing considering Bor was more durable than Mjolnir itself and there was a stark difference between how Thor faced the Destroyer Armor and how he fared against Bor. DA killed Thor outright with the disintegration beams without the OF. OF Thor conversely tanks the attack with charred armor and some burns.

I honestly don't see how young Thor being severely hurt by Apocalypse means that current Thor would fare the exact same, especially when Thor's feats are grossly superior since the whole Donald Blake finding the cane in Norway bringing him to the "modern" Marvel age. We also have comics where a Thor pre-banishment have been stated not to have reached his peak strength.

Originally posted by Starscream M
durability does not change as one ages

as much as you'd like to give that attribute to thor, he has the same durability as he did centuries ago

Not for humans, no. But most comic characters are typically still growing in all aspects as they age. Same holds true for Thor.

I honestly don't know how big the difference in stats is. It could be minimal or it could be huge. Speculation. Either way, he's an entirely different beast par Gor himself.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I actually have no idea how old this version of Thor is. He's directly referred as young and is obviously no grown-up Thor but he looks like a pretty grown man despite him only receiving Mjolnir in his mid-late teens classically. He's 120 years younger than the one who fought Gorr.

And he was a God of Thunder already, so there's that. Maybe there was a period where he was putting his penis in Mjolnir's strap and beating off with it. So Odin took it away.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Yeah, the characterization there was pretty lame, honestly. That sequence made no sense. I realize Apocalypse is arrogant, but just standing there and letting Thor have a free shot, then crying foul when the anti-Celestial spell cut through him. He should have just blocked the damn blow.

He foolishly thought that the axe-throw took out Thor and looked away (Pretty impressive feat for Thor to take that attack in stride). He just whooped the four horsemen effortlessly, and they were definitely valuable as he was pissed, shouldn't have let his guard down.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
He's 120 years younger than the one who fought Gorr.

And he was a God of Thunder already, so there's that. Maybe there was a period where he was putting his penis in Mjolnir's strap and beating off with it. So Odin took it away.

The Gorr fight was pretty impressive, particularly the lightning bolt packing enough punch to take him out.

Like I said, I have no idea. Definitely not going to go like their original fight.

The very first black Berserker Thor fought gave him a hell of a fight and now he's wading through an entire army of them. And that's within the current version alone.

He also took on modern Gorr (After he slew an Elder God), who he said must have gotten significantly more powerful since their last battle. So I think it's pretty safe to say that Thor is a lot tougher, just not completely conclusive.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Who's ignoring the narration?

No one denied that Apocalypse was a beast in that fight. He was obviously noticeably stronger than Thor.

That being said, Apocalypse lost the Death-Seed powered up Celestial Armor no? Just the whole "He would be dead had he not been drunk" or "Another one would break his spine" comments. Yet in Bor threads, all you see if "Thor dead without OF"

I don't think so, seeing as he had the Celestial ship all throughout his appearances.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not really the same thing considering Bor was more durable than Mjolnir itself and there was a stark difference between how Thor faced the Destroyer Armor and how he fared against Bor. DA killed Thor outright with the disintegration beams without the OF. OF Thor conversely tanks the attack with charred armor and some burns.

I honestly don't see how young Thor being severely hurt by Apocalypse means that current Thor would fare the exact same, especially when Thor's feats are grossly superior since the whole Donald Blake finding the cane in Norway bringing him to the "modern" Marvel age. We also have comics where a Thor pre-banishment have been stated not to have reached his peak strength. That still doesn't prove Bor would have killed Thor without the OF.

Of course they're going to be superior, that's what happens when you have an ongoing comic career. That's like saying Hulk was at his weakest ever in his first couple fights against Thor because he's had vastly better feats since then.

Naturally those would apply for any flashback... although I'm curious of these statements.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not really the same thing considering Bor was more durable than Mjolnir itself and there was a stark difference between how Thor faced the Destroyer Armor and how he fared against Bor. DA killed Thor outright with the disintegration beams without the OF. OF Thor conversely tanks the attack with charred armor and some burns.

I honestly don't see how young Thor being severely hurt by Apocalypse means that current Thor would fare the exact same, especially when Thor's feats are grossly superior since the whole Donald Blake finding the cane in Norway bringing him to the "modern" Marvel age. We also have comics where a Thor pre-banishment have been stated not to have reached his peak strength.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Just the whole "He would be dead had he not been drunk" or "Another one would break his spine" comments. Yet in Bor threads, all you see if "Thor dead without OF"

I don't think so, seeing as he had the Celestial ship all throughout his appearances.

I doubt it would have killed Thor, Odin Force or not. The intention was to indicate Bor was beyond Heralds in power, that Thor was facing a powerful foe. Further highlighted by him about to destroy the Earth when he was unleashing his power (Contrary to popular believe, Heralds rarely operate on this level).

Wait, so Apocalypse has his armor still? So this was a retroactive retcon then? Because I've seen the ship before but Apocalypse has never been this tough or rocking invincible armor from the Celestials to my knowledge. Keep in mind I haven't caught up with X-Force.

I'd guess he was in the Asgardian equivalent of his early to mid 20s, with current Thor being in his equivalent early to mid 30s (prime). That said, I don't think Thor was maxing on creatine from 12th to 21st century. That'd account for a strange maturation rate given that Thor, iirc, was an adult with Mjolnir in his posession when the 3rd Celestial Host came in the 10th century AD, and was active in the Fourth Host as well (tossing the Odinsword into Arishem). I think it's a matter of bad continuity.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
I'd guess he was in the Asgardian equivalent of his early to mid 20s, with current Thor being in his equivalent early to mid 30s (prime). That said, I don't think Thor was maxing on creatine from 12th to 21st century. That'd account for a strange maturation rate given that Thor, iirc, was an adult with Mjolnir in his posession when the 3rd Celestial Host came in the 10th century AD, and was active in the Fourth Host as well (tossing the Odinsword into Arishem). I think it's a matter of bad continuity.

Don't bother trying to come to a conclusion using dates, I doubt writers gave enough shit to try and fit it in perfectly. Personally, I'm treating these versions as completely new as Thor received Mjolnir in previous incarnations as a mid to late teen.

Thor is definitely far more formidable. How much so in terms of physical stats I'm unsure like I said. Still going to bet on a large gap contrary to a small one.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Just the whole "He would be dead had he not been drunk" or "Another one would break his spine" comments. Yet in Bor threads, all you see if "Thor dead without OF"

I don't think so, seeing as he had the Celestial ship all throughout his appearances.

That still doesn't prove Bor would have killed Thor without the OF.

Of course they're going to be superior, that's what happens when you have an ongoing comic career. That's like saying Hulk was at his weakest ever in his first couple fights against Thor because he's had vastly better feats since then.

Naturally those would apply for any flashback... although I'm curious of these statements.

The Apocalypse thing isn't the same as Bor, though. With Bor, and during that series, we saw that OF Thor was significantly superior to Classic Thor. And OF Thor, while hurt, endured an attack that once killed him outright. The fact that a stray axe blow broke his ribs and Bor taking everything he had up to Mjolnir breaking certainly lends more evidence to the idea that Bor could have one shot killed him. Given some of classic Thor's crazy feats, it's certainly possible he could have survived Bor's attack, but really, given the intent of JMS and the other comparisons and feats during that run, I'm more inclined to believe that at the least, Thor would have been severely FUBUR'd without the OF.

It just seems stupid to me personally to think that the same attacked that wrecked a young Thor would have the same effectiveness as a Thor who's faced guys like Hulk, Kurse, Juggernaut, etc.

I'm looking for the scans/issue numbers, but I strongly recall an instance where Thor or the narrator is telling a story about a younger Thor, pre-banishment and they specifically mention how his strength had not peaked in comparison to (then) today.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I doubt it would have killed Thor, Odin Force or not. The intention was to indicate Bor was beyond Heralds in power, that Thor was facing a powerful foe. Further highlighted by him about to destroy the Earth when he was unleashing his power (Contrary to popular believe, Heralds rarely operate on this level).

Wait, so Apocalypse has his armor still? So this was a retroactive retcon then? Because I've seen the ship before but Apocalypse has never been this tough or rocking invincible armor from the Celestials to my knowledge. Keep in mind I haven't caught up with X-Force.

Apocalypse armor has always been Celestial tech. It's integrated into his body via the Transmode virus. It's just being more emphasized in modern depictions (since Blood of Apocalypse arc).

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm looking for the scans/issue numbers, but I strongly recall an instance where Thor or the narrator is telling a story about a younger Thor, pre-banishment and they specifically mention how his strength had not peaked in comparison to (then) today.

Sounds familiar but don't bother.

I don't think anyone's denying that Thor is superior physically (Except Starscream but he's irrelevant) but trying to determine by how much so which with the current evidence is simply impossible imo.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Sounds familiar but don't bother.

I don't think anyone's denying that Thor is superior physically (Except Starscream but he's irrelevant) but trying to determine by how much so which with the current evidence is simply impossible imo.

Starscream's gonna Starscream.

And I totally agree that by all rights, Apocalypse should also be more formidable in a "current" setting, just like Thor is.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Apocalypse armor has always been Celestial tech. It's integrated into his body via the Transmode virus. It's just being more emphasized in modern depictions (since Blood of Apocalypse arc).

I know he's always rocked Celestial tech.

But in this issue he was actually wearing cosmic Celestial Armor. That's far different from him integrating some Celestial bits into his suit.

If he's wearing that shit again, I think even modern Thor would be significantly hard pressed to cause him any harm. Apocalypse would be wearing the same shit that Arishem's rocking etc.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Starscream's gonna Starscream.

And I totally agree that by all rights, Apocalypse should also be more formidable in a "current" setting, just like Thor is.

If he still has the armor, yes and imo, Thor and other herald level beings should lose to Apocalypse on average. The defense granted to him by the Celestial Death Seed is too great.

If he doesn't, his effectiveness drops significantly and Thor pummels him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The Gorr fight was pretty impressive, particularly the lightning bolt packing enough punch to take him out.

Like I said, I have no idea. Definitely not going to go like their original fight.

The very first black Berserker Thor fought gave him a hell of a fight and now he's wading through an entire army of them. And that's within the current version alone.

He also took on modern Gorr (After he slew an Elder God), who he said must have gotten significantly more powerful since their last battle. So I think it's pretty safe to say that Thor is a lot tougher, just not completely conclusive. Yeah, he took a beating too, and Gorr was easily Skyfather level then.

I don't either. But I find the notion that Thor's physical ability changed so drastically since then pretty silly.

Yeah, that's weird. That's like in the same week too. I guess you can chalk that one up to him learning how to fight it.

Both versions took on modern Gorr. Gorr cheapshotted Young Thor after he took out like 3 Beserkers easily, and as soon as he started fighting Current Thor, he beat him just as easily. So that doesn't really prove much. Though Current Thor doesn't have the implications that he was just raped like Young Thor did...

As an aside, isn't the best Thor has ever done against Odin as a "Young" Thor, while Odin had the Odin Sword and the Destroyer armor?

Apocalypse should also be mature enough to use a damn forcefield or just block a melee attack instead of arrogantly standing there and taking it to the chest. That was almost as bad as that "Die a thousand deaths Thunder God" line. Bad characterization.

Anyway, I say split, or 6/10 either way. Apocalypse is in Thor's weight class at the very least.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I doubt it would have killed Thor, Odin Force or not. The intention was to indicate Bor was beyond Heralds in power, that Thor was facing a powerful foe. Further highlighted by him about to destroy the Earth when he was unleashing his power (Contrary to popular believe, Heralds rarely operate on this level).

Wait, so Apocalypse has his armor still? So this was a retroactive retcon then? Because I've seen the ship before but Apocalypse has never been this tough or rocking invincible armor from the Celestials to my knowledge. Keep in mind I haven't caught up with X-Force. I agree.

He should. Seeing as the ship should be able to replicate any armor relatively easily.

If he doesn't however, he would have lost it due to his destruction at the Moon due to heart force.

Apoc armor seems to fluctuate however based on his strength at the time though. And he can manipulate it. So it's possible he can regen it like the Celestials.
It also accounts for like 100% of the showings where it's been damaged outside this Thor example.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yeah, he took a beating too, and Gorr was easily Skyfather level then.

I don't either. But I find the notion that Thor's physical ability changed so drastically since then pretty silly.

Yeah, that's weird. That's like in the same week too. I guess you can chalk that one up to him learning how to fight it.

Both versions took on modern Gorr. Gorr cheapshotted Young Thor after he took out like 3 Beserkers easily, and as soon as he started fighting Current Thor, he beat him just as easily. So that doesn't really prove much. Though Current Thor doesn't have the implications that he was just raped like Young Thor did...

As an aside, isn't the best Thor has ever done against Odin as a "Young" Thor, while Odin had the Odin Sword and the Destroyer armor?

I'm not jumping to any conclusion. Current Thor could be much stronger or not, neither revelation is illogical or that controversial. Not like Gods have to mature according to mortal standards. Heck, Apocalypse's axe throw should have killed Thor based on the message sent previously but that same issue.

Nah bro, mental blocks.

True, but that axe yo. He got beat up but the implication was that Thor was an entirely different beast as well.

Not the best, but one of his greatest showings. Fraction's mini. But he had Mjolnir and was pretty much a grown man. It's like when he gets Mjolnir, he levels up.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I agree.

He should. Seeing as the ship should be able to replicate any armor relatively easily.

If he doesn't however, he would have lost it due to his destruction at the Moon due to heart force.

Apoc armor seems to fluctuate however based on his strength at the time though. And he can manipulate it. So it's possible he can regen it like the Celestials.
It also accounts for like 100% of the showings where it's been damaged outside this Thor example.

Wait, what? I thought Apocalype's armor was a special, one-time blessing granted to him by the Death Seed. It was treated like some big shit in the ritual with Arishem that's granted to the Celestial Evolutionary care-taker:
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/e75ec7cb61e3ab82b537a8b1505d9189.jpg?h=8bf4cfe6ab31b20f157afce4ab39f0a0
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/649b3245f3c8123ccde18543618211d3.jpg?h=3914b6f2986308cb01e32a6bfcf6cb3d
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/9972415faac4b81da706941ce85ebe65.jpg?h=2105ef9918994a3be990813e62242a9b

Doesn't seem like the intent is that it's something that can be casually mass-produced.

Heart Force?

I don't know, too much speculation overall here for me.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


I'm looking for the scans/issue numbers, but I strongly recall an instance where Thor or the narrator is telling a story about a younger Thor, pre-banishment and they specifically mention how his strength had not peaked in comparison to (then) today. I like that subtle strawman jake

I never said thor did not grow stronger as he matured...Im sure he did. My point was his durability did not change with age once he reached young adulthood

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The Apocalypse thing isn't the same as Bor, though. With Bor, and during that series, we saw that OF Thor was significantly superior to Classic Thor. And OF Thor, while hurt, endured an attack that once killed him outright. The fact that a stray axe blow broke his ribs and Bor taking everything he had up to Mjolnir breaking certainly lends more evidence to the idea that Bor could have one shot killed him. Given some of classic Thor's crazy feats, it's certainly possible he could have survived Bor's attack, but really, given the intent of JMS and the other comparisons and feats during that run, I'm more inclined to believe that at the least, Thor would have been severely FUBUR'd without the OF.

It just seems stupid to me personally to think that the same attacked that wrecked a young Thor would have the same effectiveness as a Thor who's faced guys like Hulk, Kurse, Juggernaut, etc.

I'm looking for the scans/issue numbers, but I strongly recall an instance where Thor or the narrator is telling a story about a younger Thor, pre-banishment and they specifically mention how his strength had not peaked in comparison to (then) today. And Thor was worried his neck was going to snap had he taken another headbutt that sent shockwaves for 100s of miles. Which is ridiculous seeing as headbutts have never caused shockwaves in comics before to my knowledge...

And I highly doubt it would have killed him, just really doubt that. It's one shotting a Thor level being to death when he's resisted way superior forces. I just suspected the Apoc hype would be waved off while still backing Bor's. Even though Bor was hitting lesser beings in the same comic...
And the wirter's intent was for Apoc to be nigh unbeatable without a cosmic level killing axe...

Didn't Apoc like two panel double universe Hulk?

ok

Originally posted by Starscream M
I like that subtle strawman jake

I never said thor did not grow stronger as he matured...Im sure he did. My point was his durability did not change with age once he reached young adulthood

Why would he grow stronger, but not tougher? Keeping in mind this is a being that's even less restricted by logic than other non-magical or non-deity characters in comics.

Originally posted by Starscream M
I like that subtle strawman jake

I never said thor did not grow stronger as he matured...Im sure he did. My point was his durability did not change with age once he reached young adulthood

Then you'll have no trouble posting durability feats for "young Thor" that match those of classic/current Thor.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then you'll have no trouble posting durability feats for "young Thor" that match those of classic/current Thor. um I can post feats of thor's from the 70s/80s that current thor hasn't come close to matching

by your logic, does that mean thor got a lot weaker over the years then?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Apocalypse should also be mature enough to use a damn forcefield or just block a melee attack instead of arrogantly standing there and taking it to the chest. That was almost as bad as that "Die a thousand deaths Thunder God" line. Bad characterization.

Anyway, I say split, or 6/10 either way. Apocalypse is in Thor's weight class at the very least.

Nah, Apocalypse beats up even modern Thor 7/10 in that Celestial Armor.

On average, nothing short of Trans will be even able to tickle him if he's rocking the same durability as a Celestial.

Originally posted by Starscream M
um I can post feats of thor's from the 70s/80s that current thor hasn't come close to matching

by your logic, does that mean thor got a lot weaker over the years then?

facepalm

I'm not saying I agree with Silent Master's line of reasoning but damn, that's some dumb shit.

Originally posted by Starscream M
um I can post feats of thor's from the 70s/80s that current thor hasn't come close to matching

by your logic, does that mean thor got a lot weaker over the years then?

That's still "modern" Thor as far as Marvel's in-universe time scale goes.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm not jumping to any conclusion. Current Thor could be much stronger or not, neither revelation is illogical or that controversial. Not like Gods have to mature according to mortal standards. Heck, Apocalypse's axe throw should have killed Thor based on the message sent previously but that same issue.

Nah bro, mental blocks.

True, but that axe yo. He got beat up but the implication was that Thor was an entirely different beast as well.

Not the best, but one of his greatest showings. Fraction's mini. But he had Mjolnir and was pretty much a grown man. It's like when he gets Mjolnir, he levels up. Yeah, him resisting that axe was pretty crazy considering Wolverine kills Thor on these forums.

The implication just seemed that Gorr was a different beast to me.

Do you know the timeline of that one?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wait, what? I thought Apocalype's armor was a special, one-time blessing granted to him by the Death Seed. It was treated like some big shit in the ritual with Arishem that's granted to the Celestial Evolutionary care-taker:
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/e75ec7cb61e3ab82b537a8b1505d9189.jpg?h=8bf4cfe6ab31b20f157afce4ab39f0a0
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/649b3245f3c8123ccde18543618211d3.jpg?h=3914b6f2986308cb01e32a6bfcf6cb3d
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/9972415faac4b81da706941ce85ebe65.jpg?h=2105ef9918994a3be990813e62242a9b

Doesn't seem like the intent is that it's something that can be casually mass-produced.

Heart Force?

I don't know, too much speculation overall here for me. See, Holo would have only received the seed and the armor.
Apoc received an actual Celestial ship that literally built itself. I'd imagine a Celestial ship that can build itself can replicate armor.

Yeah, Cyke tapped into love and destroyed Apoc.

My biggest problem was that apparently Apoc ever or currently does have actual Celestial armor. Seems odd to give to a herald level being.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Why would he grow stronger, but not tougher? through training and experience, he grows stronger

but one can't get more durable through experience

not a hard concept to grasp

thor's not a blank canvass that you thorbags can throw any attribute you like onto with proof

Originally posted by Starscream M
through training and experience, he grows stronger

but one can't get more durable through experience

not a hard concept to grasp

thor's not a blank canvass that you thorbags can throw any attribute you like onto with proof

....

Do you not know how muscles work? Or comics, for that matter?

Originally posted by Starscream M
um I can post feats of thor's from the 70s/80s that current thor hasn't come close to matching

by your logic, does that mean thor got a lot weaker over the years then?

Those feats would count for current Thor, so basically you're saying that you have zero proof that young Thor is just as durable as Classic Thor.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yeah, him resisting that axe was pretty crazy considering Wolverine kills Thor on these forums.

The implication just seemed that Gorr was a different beast to me.

Do you know the timeline of that one?

Wolverine fans make no sense.

IIRC he also commented that Thor grew up nicely, that's why I said what I did.

What do you mean? When? Can't remember the exact date but it was the typical early A.D era. Thor actually had a crazy showing where he created that Blood Golem.

It should be noted that was a previous Ragnarok Cycle I believe.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
See, Holo would have only received the seed and the armor.
Apoc received an actual Celestial ship that literally built itself. I'd imagine a Celestial ship that can build itself can replicate armor.

Yeah, Cyke tapped into love and destroyed Apoc.

My biggest problem was that apparently Apoc ever or currently does have actual Celestial armor. Seems odd to give to a herald level being.

Celestial Ships can just spit out Celestial Armor? I'm not saying it's not possible but when I read that scene, the Death Seed and Armor seemed to be like really important shit that a Celestial directly hands out to a single trusted servant. Again, not saying you're wrong, but it just feels, wrong you know. That it can be mass produced.

Oh okay.

Well, I don't consider him a Herald level being tbh. Not if he's walking around as durable as a Celestial. Even someone like Thanos would be hard pressed to scratch him.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wait, what? I thought Apocalype's armor was a special, one-time blessing granted to him by the Death Seed. It was treated like some big shit in the ritual with Arishem that's granted to the Celestial Evolutionary care-taker:
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/e75ec7cb61e3ab82b537a8b1505d9189.jpg?h=8bf4cfe6ab31b20f157afce4ab39f0a0
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/649b3245f3c8123ccde18543618211d3.jpg?h=3914b6f2986308cb01e32a6bfcf6cb3d
https://annihilusssl.sslcs.cdngc.net/i/8688/39745/9972415faac4b81da706941ce85ebe65.jpg?h=2105ef9918994a3be990813e62242a9b

Doesn't seem like the intent is that it's something that can be casually mass-produced.

Heart Force?

I don't know, too much speculation overall here for me.

The Death Seed amps are new additions. Originally Apocalypse crafted the Celestial Armor after interfacing with Ship and being infected with the Transmode virus. That was later retconned into the Celestials giving Ship to Apocalypse as their agent, and further altered in recent times to include the Death and Life Seeds given to Celestial Agents in various timelines/universes. The armor in of itself isn't the source of all of Apocalyse's powers. He was worshipped as a god all over Earth prior to finding Ship and upgrading himself with Celestial tech.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Those feats would count for current Thor, so basically you're saying that you have zero proof that young Thor is just as durable as Classic Thor. do you have any proof young thor is less durable than classic thor?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
The Death Seed amps are new additions. Originally Apocalypse crafted the Celestial Armor after interfacing with Ship and being infected with the Transmode virus. That was later retconned into the Celestials giving Ship to Apocalypse as their agent, and further altered in recent times to include the Death and Life Seeds given to Celestial Agents in various timelines/universes. The armor in of itself isn't the source of all of Apocalyse's powers. He was worshipped as a god all over Earth prior to finding Ship and upgrading himself with Celestial tech.

Fair enough but without that Armor he stops being an above Top Tier Celestial Herald and a tough mutant with Celestial technology. Thor's odds change significantly depending if it's present or not to me.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the Celestial amps were the source of the majority of his power in the current interpretation but that's just my personal opinion from the vibe I got.

Originally posted by Starscream M
do you have any proof young thor is less durable than classic thor?

You made the claim, which means the burden is on you.

But if it'll make you feel better, I'm willing to do a feat comparison.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Fair enough but without that Armor he stops being an above Top Tier Celestial Herald and a tough mutant with Celestial technology. Thor's odds change significantly depending if it's present or not to me.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the Celestial amps were the source of the majority of his power in the current interpretation but that's just my personal opinion from the vibe I got.

Modern Apocalypse always has the armor. The only time he wouldn't have the armor would be prior to finding Ship or fresh out of his Rejuvenation Chamber (in some depictions). It was shown in Messiah War that all he needs to do is interface with his Celestial Tech and he can power up and form the armor (which is why Stryfe and Bishop had to to get the drop on him during one of his hibernation cycles to try and take him out). The Transmode in him is able to create it once he interfaces. It's literally part of him once he gained it. It's not typically depicted as a special suit of armor he sometimes wears like a special Ironman suit. He's always in his Celestial Armor.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Modern Apocalypse always has the armor. The only time he wouldn't have the armor would be prior to finding Ship or fresh out of his Rejuvenation Chamber (in some depictions). It was shown in Messiah War that all he needs to do is interface with his Celestial Tech and he can power up and form the armor (which is why Stryfe and Bishop had to to get the drop on him during one of his hibernation cycles to try and take him out). The Transmode in him is able to create it once he interfaces. It's literally part of him once he gained it. It's not typically depicted as a special suit of armor he sometimes wears like a special Ironman suit. He's always in his Celestial Armor.

Yes, I understand that Apocalypse always has armor on.

What I'm saying is that he's never until recently had cosmic Celestial Armor on. And I'm not talking about some cheap knock-off he whipped up, but armor equivalent to that of Celestials granted to him by the Host (Along with the Death Seed I'm guessing).

Armor that has him walking around as durable as a Celestial. This isn't hard to understand. There's Celestial Armor, then there's Celestial Armor. Apocalypse (Others like Stellaris) had the former in the past, now he has the latter.

Well, assuming that the Celestials granted Apocalypse that armor when they gave him Ship per the current retcon which makes Apocalypse the Celestial's Caretaker, and given that the fight with Thor took place in 1100 AD, I think it's safe to assume that the armor is at this point considered one in the same. Apocalypse does not have multiple suits of armor like Ironman. The origin of the armor he's always worn has simply been retroactively changed. He originally gained it by interfacing with Ship without Celestial intervention at all but that has been changed.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Wolverine fans make no sense.

IIRC he also commented that Thor grew up nicely, that's why I said what I did.

What do you mean? When? Can't remember the exact date but it was the typical early A.D era. Thor actually had a crazy showing where he created that Blood Golem.

It should be noted that was a previous Ragnarok Cycle I believe.



Celestial Ships can just spit out Celestial Armor? I'm not saying it's not possible but when I read that scene, the Death Seed and Armor seemed to be like really important shit that a Celestial directly hands out to a single trusted servant. Again, not saying you're wrong, but it just feels, wrong you know. That it can be mass produced.

Oh okay.

Well, I don't consider him a Herald level being tbh. Not if he's walking around as durable as a Celestial. Even someone like Thanos would be hard pressed to scratch him. final nail in the coffin for that... maybe a thread needs bumping...

He could have been talking about maturity, or the hammer itself. It's not like he did much since he previously actually took Gorr out... twice.

Yeah, I'm curious as to how far the dates are away from the Apoc scene. Though the Ragnarok cycle is something I hadn't heard before.

What Delph said.
Apoc wouldn't mass produce the armor as it only bends to his will, and it'd be stupid to give a Gambit or Wolverine Celestial armor. Tech, yes.
And we've never actually seen Apoc get the Death seed. When Apoc first seen a Celestial in the latest telling of his background, it was after the ship was already built and Eson was promising him powa via telepathy. So the ship building his armor still stands. Plus it'd be really stupid to give out his actual Celestial armor and just not have it anymore.

I'm talking sheer power. In sheer power he's herald level. In durability he's near abstract level lol. I liked it better when it was just really tough Celestial tech, not actual armor.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Well, assuming that the Celestials granted Apocalypse that armor when they gave him Ship per the current retcon which makes Apocalypse the Celestial's Caretaker, and given that the fight with Thor took place in 1100 AD, I think it's safe to assume that the armor is at this point considered one in the same. Apocalypse does not have multiple suits of armor like Ironman. The origin of the armor he's always worn has simply been retroactively changed. He originally gained it by interfacing with Ship without Celestial intervention at all but that has been changed.

So you understand my point between the two? Okay.

If his ship can repair and allow him to rock that armor currently then I don't see how Thor has a much of a chance on average.

Even if I think Thor's more powerful, versatile and even stronger, he still would lose 90% of the time to a guy on his level who's as durable as a High End cosmic.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
final nail in the coffin for that... maybe a thread needs bumping...

He could have been talking about maturity, or the hammer itself. It's not like he did much since he previously actually took Gorr out... twice.

Yeah, I'm curious as to how far the dates are away from the Apoc scene. Though the Ragnarok cycle is something I hadn't heard before.

What Delph said.
Apoc wouldn't mass produce the armor as it only bends to his will, and it'd be stupid to give a Gambit or Wolverine Celestial armor. Tech, yes.
And we've never actually seen Apoc get the Death seed. When Apoc first seen a Celestial in the latest telling of his background, it was after the ship was already built and Eson was promising him powa via telepathy. So the ship building his armor still stands. Plus it'd be really stupid to give out.

I'm talking sheer power. In sheer power he's herald level. In durability he's near abstract level lol. I liked it better when it was just really tough Celestial tech, not actual armor.

Lol, go ahead. I'd enjoy it.

Fair enough, that's just what I took from it.

IIRC, yes, it was a previous Ragnarok cycle and you know how much of a mess that shit is.

Okay, so the ship built him the armor? I assumed it was given to him by Arishem. The same ritual we saw, my bad, it just seemed like a process they all expected.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Well, assuming that the Celestials granted Apocalypse that armor when they gave him Ship per the current retcon which makes Apocalypse the Celestial's Caretaker, and given that the fight with Thor took place in 1100 AD, I think it's safe to assume that the armor is at this point considered one in the same. Apocalypse does not have multiple suits of armor like Ironman. The origin of the armor he's always worn has simply been retroactively changed. He originally gained it by interfacing with Ship without Celestial intervention at all but that has been changed. how do his powers work with that suit on?

He's not fully covered, but yeah, that adds a lot

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol, go ahead. I'd enjoy it.

Fair enough, that's just what I took from it.

IIRC, yes, it was a previous Ragnarok cycle and you know how much of a mess that shit is.

Okay, so the ship built him the armor? I assumed it was given to him by Arishem. The same ritual we saw, my bad, it just seemed like a process they all expected.

Fair enough. Interesting. I don't recall reading about previous Ragnarok cycles.

I believe. If Delph has a panel, that'd help.
But I don't think Apoc's ever been shown in the same room as Celestials in canon, so idk.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Interesting. I don't recall reading about previous Ragnarok cycles.

I believe. If Delph has a panel, that'd help.
But I don't think Apoc's ever been shown in the same room as Celestials in canon, so idk.

End of the X-Men V2 Apocalypse is picked up by the Celestials as he's trying to suicide.

Yeah, I see your point. It's the confusion of altered continuity. Apocalypse's connection and relationship to the Celestials is being expanded upon and fleshed out post Blood of Apocalypse and Simonson's stand alones. Originally Apocalypse simply happened upon ship and, over several centuries, learned all of it's secrets and augmented himself via his Transmode infection. That's been retroactively changed twice now. He's now an agent of the Celestials that shepherds the progress of humanity's evolution. I wish they'd kept the original idea of Apocalypse being the mid-point of all Earth's humanoid species (a Human/Eternal/Deviant mutant hybrid).

But anyway, yeah, Cosmic Celestial Armor, plus all his other powers.

Originally posted by curryman
End of the X-Men V2 Apocalypse is picked up by the Celestials as he's trying to suicide. They were just flashes of light iirc.
Plus that's like his last appearance (though I still think he was the same Apoc who beat the dick out of Stryfe).

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
They were just flashes of light iirc.
Plus that's like his last appearance (though I still think he was the same Apoc who beat the dick out of Stryfe).

Yeah, I think you're right. Flash of light and some speech bubbles.

What about his origin-story when he first comes across the celestial tech?

i'm confused as hell about the character now

Originally posted by curryman
Yeah, I think you're right. Flash of light and some speech bubbles.

What about his origin-story when he first comes across the celestial tech? It showed Eson, but he was visible via telepathy.

Unless there's another story I'm missing.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
how do his powers work with that suit on?

Originally when Apocalypse found Ship it's defenses infected Apocalypse with the Transmode Virus. Since Apocalypse's innate powers are complete control of his molecular structure he was able to control the virus and utilize it, essentially becoming a techno-organic being like a Technarch. With that virus he was able to directly interface with Ship, gained Technopathy, and used ship to create his original Celestial armor which he merged with (his techno-organic form merged with the Celestial Armor and he's able to manipulate it as he can his own form. He 'assimilated' the armor). In a later story Cable traveled to the past and infected Apocalypse in Ancient Egypt (after Apocalypse had infected Cable as a baby, causing a temporal paradox because Apocalypse was then techno-organic before finding Ship.

Originally posted by curryman
End of the X-Men V2 Apocalypse is picked up by the Celestials as he's trying to suicide.

That's the Blood of Apocalypse Arc. Post Decimation he tries to enact a plan in which he kills 90% of humanity while simultaneously infecting the remaining mutants with his blood (putting the human and mutant populations on equal footing after M Day to correct Scarlet Witch messing up his work as shepherd of mutantkind). When the plan fails he tried to commit suicide but the Celestials came and took him.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
That's the Blood of Apocalypse Arc. Post Decimation he tries to enact a plan in which he kills 90% of humanity while simultaneously infecting the remaining mutants with his blood (putting the human and mutant populations on equal footing after M Day to correct Scarlet Witch messing up his work as shepherd of mutantkind). When the plan fails he tried to commit suicide but the Celestials came and took him.

I remember the setting, was just answering Branlor's question

Originally posted by MF DELPH
That's the Blood of Apocalypse Arc. Post Decimation he tries to enact a plan in which he kills 90% of humanity while simultaneously infecting the remaining mutants with his blood (putting the human and mutant populations on equal footing after M Day to correct Scarlet Witch messing up his work as shepherd of mutantkind). When the plan fails he tried to commit suicide but the Celestials came and took him. My theory is that the Celestials sent him through time, where he eventually found Stryfe.

Most of that is based on the Archangel in that arc being his Archangel, and what he entered at the end of Blood of Apocalypse.

So if someone follows this thought, there's room for Apocalypse to just step into the current timeline, and stop with these fauxpocs. Though, I'm hoping he comes back in the next issue with the Celestial ship.

Yeah, Messiah War showed that the Celestials didn't kill Apocalypse, but it wasn't clear when he returned to Earth. Given that he's supposed to ensure that the strongest mutants evolve to their final Omega forms the Celestials probably just put him back to work after water boarding him for a couple centuries.

he was reincarnated in archangel, then reincarnated in a kid or something

Originally posted by psycho gundam
he was reincarnated in archangel, then reincarnated in a kid or something

First the original Genesis, then Archangel after Fantomex shot the kid.

I hope that's not what actually happened.

I hope the original is still out there

his original body died during x-cutioner's song

Originally posted by curryman
First the original Genesis, then Archangel after Fantomex shot the kid. there is a new kid.

apparently an apocalypse will generate like a queen bee/ant whenever the previous one dies

Talking about En Sabah Nur, not his body.

I want the original character back, not some boy with hair or Archangel.

I wouldn't mind a retcon.

To iron out some of the finer details

too bad they already made a series about his origin story

Originally posted by psycho gundam
too bad they already made a series about his origin story

I don't think it would take too much to align that with what Remender's writing. Only difference is that Remender's interpretation places Apocalypse a bit higher in the eyes of the celestials.

ghey

zopzop can start groaning anytime now

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
You say this while Thor ran away in the same comic to enchant his weapon...

And if Apocalypse would know he enchanted his weapon, Thor wouldn't even strike him.

Honestly power wise in their recent battle, Apocalypse was toying with Thor.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I know he's always rocked Celestial tech.

But in this issue he was actually wearing cosmic Celestial Armor. That's far different from him integrating some Celestial bits into his suit.

The suit was part of him, that is why he could manipulate it. He made a hammer with his hand in a fight with Thor. He always had a Celestial armor as part of his body when he got infected. His fight with Thor is after he got infected (look also what he did to Stryfe). He always has the armor.

It was his strengh and headbutt that sent Thor flying and Thor thinking that Apocalypse could actually kill him with his raw strenght. That's Apocalypse power.

Apocalypse strenght is enormous.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
he was reincarnated in archangel, then reincarnated in a kid or something

His blood (via Transmode virus) can recreate him or he can overwrite a host body. In Messiah War he takes Stryfe as his new host body after sonning him.

Originally posted by Xplosive
And if Apocalypse would know he enchanted his weapon, Thor wouldn't even strike him.

Honestly power wise in their recent battle, Apocalypse was toying with Thor.

Not that their battle was all that recent...

Originally posted by MF DELPH
His blood (via Transmode virus) can recreate him or he can overwrite a host body. In Messiah War he takes Stryfe as his new host body after sonning him. archangel was after that, then the kid(s) after that

Originally posted by psycho gundam
he was reincarnated in archangel, then reincarnated in a kid or something but unlike his previous remaking of a host into himself, he wasn't reincarnated in archangel. as the death horseman, arcangel was next in life of succession, so to speak. once the sit of evolution gardener was vacant and shadowking meddled with warren, the detah persona awakened to take over and later assume poccy's position and try to turn betsy into the next death, continuing the cycle.

neither the first clone that fantomex shot nor evan are reincarnations either. they're mere clones that did not inherit apocalyspes's personality and memories. ozymandias was aparently acting on his own when he created evan.

I do appreciate the new role and motivations they've given apocalypse. much better than the petty megalomaniac version.

Originally posted by Xplosive
And if Apocalypse would know he enchanted his weapon, Thor wouldn't even strike him.

Honestly power wise in their recent battle, Apocalypse was toying with Thor.



The suit was part of him, that is why he could manipulate it. He made a hammer with his hand in a fight with Thor. He always had a Celestial armor as part of his body when he got infected. His fight with Thor is after he got infected (look also what he did to Stryfe). He always has the armor.

It was his strengh and headbutt that sent Thor flying and Thor thinking that Apocalypse could actually kill him with his raw strenght. That's Apocalypse power.

Apocalypse strenght is enormous. X 100

"Mutants". They are Stupid.