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pre or post crisis supes (like it makes a difference)

Post Crisis. I'm not done yet, give me a minute

kay sorry

duuuude...that was in depth...well done......u've made a believer outa me....i think this was probably the most realistic battle for the two teams....with each character on their normal respective levels....however..i dun realy lke how easily cyclops was taken down....but still good....n e wayz...with the characters u have chosen...i would have gone for the JLA

I'll give you some props for the effort, but you still should've kept this topic in it's original thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28659&highlight=XMen+vs+JLA

Fair warning, Paola might end up merging this one with the original.

Oh, and the debate won't end. Everyone will always see this battle in one way or another. Although, I still give to win to the JLA, as I always have.

dont mess with the fan boys, they will rip this thread apart

first of all its really well written, props dude...

i always believe the jla would triumph given those line-ups...

cyclops taken down so easily, and supes absorbing his blasts? i'm a huge fan of both, and that would never happen...

Cyclops was taken down in retrospect to what he is capable of and what his usual attack pattern consists of. He usually attacks from a distance, and strategically that would be perfectly sound with the powerhouses running around on the other team. Also Cyclops is a solar battery. His optic blasts come from solar energy. Superman is a solar battery. Thus Superman can absorb Cyclops optic blasts since the energy is solar in nature.

i know what his usual attack patterns consist of. but i believe the energy patterns they absorb are too different because they are channelled so differently, so i dont believe supes could do it...

This conjecture is noted and valid. Even if Superman was unable to absorb Cyclops' blast, they wouldn't do that much harm to any of the JLA. Unless he unleashes a supremely powerful attack like one you have at the bottom of your thread, The JLA would topple him. Even he did unleash an ultimate attack, there are various ways the JLA could protect themselves, an exhausted Slim would be taken out thusly.

i have no doubt even with a blast like the one in my sig (which hurt onslaught), the man of steel would get up, brush himself off and take out cyclops.

ive always said the jla would win, because they're simply more powerful...

Anyone else

yeah dude, jla is a cadre of powerhouses. J'onn is now slouch in the psychic depot. he's more than a match for a non-cosmically enhanced jean. i mean, we're talking about a guy who brainwashed over 70 other powerful psychics in one fell swoop.

I worship marvel and all, but in my heart I know the JLA would kick the Xmen a$$. Side note. Their was no Gambit in the matchup. That just plain wrong.

Sorry I forgot Gambit. I mean c'mon there's like a hundred of them. I can't remember them all.

Dude Gambit is Xmen 3 movie bound! How could you forget him. It be like forgeting Piccolo in a Dragonball Z brawl....sorry about getting off topic and all.

Even if I added Gambit, the result would be same. Gambit would have probably got his behind handed to him by Wonder Woman AND Rogue, after he came on to the well-endowed Warrior Princess

there are alot of xmen, if you mean just the gold and red teams then i think JLA would win, but if you mean anyone under the roof of the mansion or with "xmen" under their affiliation then i would have to say that JLA wont have a for sure win, but it would be probable

If it were the entire school, the JLA would have their hands full. But for this thread its just the selected members

so then its the red and gold teams?

its really hard to pinpoint since the team does have alot of character changes

The team selected is pretty original. I don't know. They change teams like Madonna changes her wardrobe during a dinner party.

people come and go, its realistic

Interesting theory.

its not a theory though, cannonball was part of the xmen, then he left.....can you remember any friends you used to hang out with and now you dont know whats happened to them? thats because people come and go

That's true...sad yet so true. I miss my buddies I met at Daycamp when I was 13.... sorry about getting off topic and all.

first of all there will never be an "End debate" about anything on thim forum, these threads decided nothing.

and secondly, the telepaths on the JLA are no where near as powerful as jean, and AM is only telepathic to sea creatures.

Jean could neuteralized MM in a matter of minutes, then the rest of the team would be ripe for picking. supes would go first, jean would know that he is the strongest and he is weak in the mind.

colossus is strong enough to last a long enough against super man for jean to take out his mind.

storm would be able to zap the water that aqua man was in, or ice man could freeze it either would do fine.

wolverine would run around chasing batman the whole time, neither of them making progress.

rouge would destroy WW, Wonder woman would not know that touching rouge would make her weak.

flash slips on ice via iceman knocked unconciaus

the only problem would be GL, but after like an hour of fighting, he would be the only one left on his team.

cyke wouldnt do mutch. (no offence pr)

JLA are very power ful physicaly, but they are mentaly weak, and there are few teams, if any that can compare to the Xmens amazing team work and training.

'nuff said

I wish they fight for real... be cool as F##Kin Hell!!!

cyke wouldnt do much? he's the leader, he'd tell all of them what to do lol, and you forgot green arrow

ya cyke will lead them, my bad.

and i did forget green arrow, but does it realy matter? wuts some guy with a bow gonna do?.

cyke can fight him

lol, he's got good range and so does cyke so it'd be a decent match up

buts is arrows.. ARROWS!

cyke could blast them before they even come close to him

heh, i dont know much about green arrow, they're just normal arrows? no explosive heads or anything

CrazySpinz, your argument is valid but ripe with inaccuracies.

Martian Manhunter is NOT weaker than Jean Grey. Martian Manhunter has been raised and taught in a society of telepaths. Thousands of years of knowledge on telepathy was instantly transmitted to MM. MM is stronger psychically than Jean Grey. MM once had a telepathic link with every person on the globe. He also altered the minds of 70 different people scattered across the world. Jean Grey would need, and always has needed, Cerebra to do this.

Although, its not common knowledge Aquaman is a telepath who can do more than talk to fish. He once gave a stroke to foe.

Colossus would not "last long enough" for Superman to take him out. Heat vision, vastly superior strength, superspeed, ice breath, etc. Colossus goes down in seconds.

Storm would not "zap"anything because there is no water in the "completely featureless environment". Besides, Aquaman is immune to electricity.

One on One, Wolverine would defeat Batman. But against the Entire JLA, not likely.

Rogue is inferior in strength, speed, and fighting ability. Since Wonder Woman is magical, she is resistant (but not immune) to Rogue's absorption powers as it has been in the past with prior X-Men foes.

Flash doesn't "slip" on any ice that Iceman manages to conjure before being reduced to a puddle courtesy of Superman's heat vison. At hyper-velocity, friction has no meaning. Flash has battled far more competent foes with ice powers (i.e Captain Cold, Frostbite). So an ice patch isn't going to anything.

Even if Green Lantern was the last one standing, he would defeat the X-Men anyway. His ring protects him from telepathy. Lighting Bolts, optic blasts, rock fists blows are useless against his forcefield. They're not going to break through. GL once contained a supernova. One giant army of green winged-monkeys and its over.

Green Arrow isn't in this. Read original post!

if iceman gets turned into a puddle, he'll be part of the air and the puddle, the JLA wont know that, it doesnt many any sort of advancement im just saying it

theres NOTHING that says wonder woman is immune to rogues touch

You're right nothing does say that WW is immune to Rogue's touch. Or Superman, or Green Lantern. It's all theoretical with the basis being that Rogue has not been able to absorb some foes who were of magical nature. Like WW. And I never said she was immune, I said she was resistant.

well "smart ass" (couldnt help it) no water in the envoirment aqua man dies any way he needs water every once and a while to survive.

superman is no stronger than current colossus, they both operate at the maximum level of strength for there universe, and long ago in this forum we decided that anyone who operated at that level of strength is equil. and colossus can withstand heat tempatures higher than that of the suface of the sun, read a good bio on him ull see that, heat vision wont do much, but still supes is faster, he would win, bot not easily.


and when is the last time u read anything about iceman? i highly doubt anyone in the DCU has as mutch ice power as him, juggernaut said that iceman was more powerfull than him, (a toned down juggy but still JUGGERNAUT) an ice wall would do just fine against flash also,

rouge would just need to hold on to WW for abit longer than normal, because she is magical, but not al magic, correct me if i am wrong but isnt WW an Amazon, and amazons strength and speed are natural, therefore rouge can drain here.

storm would be a competent foe for GL, and she could block out the sun making both cyke, and supes rather usless, but cyke wasnt doing mutch anyway.

and Jean is stronger telepathicaly than MM, marvels telepaths have mutch greater power than the DC ones. ever since the pheonix posseded jean she has been much more powerfull, even after the cosmic entity left here she was still like 10xs stronger than she used to be.

and GL would have no chance at beating all the Xmen at once

what xmen foes? i cant think of anyone except colossus who's resistant against rogues touch

Immune - When a human or animal body is able to resist infectious disease because of either previous infection, immunization/vaccination, or contact with the immunogen/antigen, then the human or animal is immune to this disease.

being immune is the same as being resistant to something

acualy, rouge used colossus's power with a mix of night crawlers to rip of nimrods arm, so he isnt even resistant to it, but that doesnt matter.

and back to the fight, the xmen also have another advantige, they arent all do gooders like the JLA, they will fight dirty if they need to.

and if u look at it like that iceman could kill all the jla (exept maybe MM) in a second, by freezing all the water and cells in there body, and no gls sheild would not stop that.

iceman owns

Heres a scenario, Rouge pulls off her glove and grabs Superman's face. She holds on for about fifteen seconds. She uses his powers in addition to her own immense strength and speed to kick the crap out of superman colleauges. Any questions?

she took his power when he was in flesh mode i think, if not then it was horrible writing because its been said in comics quite a few times

ok

*Sigh* If you want to go all Webster's Dictionary on me fine. By immune I meant "no effect". When you throw a snowball at Iceman it would have no effect because he's immune to it. Everyone but Superman is immune to Kryponite. Resistant meant that it affects Wonder Woman but not to great effect as it would have normally been.

And yes there have numerous X-Men foes, that Rogue could not absorb. Silver Surfer, a demi-god once forgot his name. Rogue absorb things at a genetic level. She absorbs their memories through a kind of telepathic vampirism. Wonder Woman is (theoretically, because they never met) resistant because she is magically endowed. WW has faced foes like the Parasite who have tried to absorb her powers but failed because her power is Greek God Magic. Either way when you involve magic in something, things kinda go crazy.

lol, im not going websters dictionary, its just that having an immunity to something would be showing resistance to it

but anyway i understand what you mean, i just dont know what leads you to believe that rogues touch would effect WW less than anyone else

Draco, enlighten me. Is Rouge bound to fighting only wonder woman?

Nah. She can fight anyone. Superman? She'd lose. MM? Can't touch what you can't see. GL? Yeah, right. The Flash? Good luck catching him. The only two people she's capable of fighting and defeating one on one is Batman and Aquaman (provided he dosen't do the stroke-giving attack)

Why wouldn't Rouge be able to take superman's abilities?

it really wouldnt happen at the start, rogue never uses her stealing ability at the start of a battle, its like a last resort kind of thing

He's an alien. It's hard to say. Humans and mutants are no problem. But aliens and magical beings are more complicated. Rogue has come up against many aliens she could not absorb because they were too...well, alien. Superman has fought the Parasite, who's powers are pretty much the same, and still came up on top.

I beg to differ. Rouge can fly, just as Superman can. She also is significantly stronger than her colleauges, argueably stronger than Wonder Woman. He would have to spend the entire fight avoiding her.

which aliens did rogue confront that she couldnt use her ability on?

Depending on which GL we are talking about.

Response to Havoc: Silver Surfer, Wonder Man, Some of the Shiar, Gladiator. etc.

Response to Mainstream: It doesn't matter if its Hal, John or Kyle. His entire body is coated by a green plasma forcefield. He would be completely protected from her absorption powers.

The only being strong enough to resist Rouge's touch WHILE UNPROTECTED was the cosmic Phoenix. Gladiator, Silver Surfer, and Wonder Man are all protected by one means or another. Superman would be unprotected. I'm sure that you are not suggesting that Superman is more powerful than the Phoenix.

rogue took her flight and superhuman strength, durability, endurance, and reflexes from a kree which is an alien being and she has skrull DNA in her genes

theres are very few alien beings that rogue cant absorb from, but implying she cant take anything away from superman or wonder woman is just total speculation, which is sort of the basis of this battle, i mean after all they are from different universes and theres two many character confrontations to have an actual resolution

Response to Supessucks: Jeez Louise where did your post come from?

Anyway, Rogue is not stronger than Wonder Woman. Rogue's max is 50 tons while WW is an excess of 100 tons.

The X-Men aren't killers. Wolverine sure. But certainly not the X-Men.

As I said before, Superman has faced far more competent absorbers and has prevailed.

Gladiator was not protected. Beast said his alien physiology made him immune. Same thing with Silver Surfer. Wonder Man was immune because hes an ionic being.

To Supessucks and crazyspinz, you guys are clutching at straws. Clearly, you're blinded by your love for X-Men. I'm an X-Men lover, I like them better than JLA. But you kidding youselves if you think the X-Men can defeat the JLA. It''s not possible.

Im sorry, I've never seen a strength level chart for Wonder Woman, or any DC character for that matter. Besides, I said 'arguably.'

All you've stated is what the X-Men can't do, not what The Justice League can do.

Perhaps you are merely a Justice League lover.

During the phoenix saga, rouge never attempted to steal gladiator's power, she knocked him around using her own. I don't recall any other confrontations.

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=56&page=11

rogues absorption list

The X-Men have saved the world dozens of times and saved the universe once. The JLA's feats are legend. They went against a apocalyptic superstar that would have destroyed an entire galaxy. They went against entire army of White Martians and won. It's not what they can do, but what they can't. Anything the X-Men have accomplished, the JLA could do quicker and more efficently.

I love both teams but the X-Men is my favorite child. The X-Men are human. The JLA are Gods of a Pantheon. I can relate to Wolverine's past better than Superman's. What many people find unappealing about the JLA is that they are so sickenly powerful, that they don't seem to possess humanity. The X-Men have lost just as many battles as they have won. The world hates them. I understand your need to stand by the X-Men no matter what. But I can't do that. I'm too rational and logical no to. On a final note, a "strength level chart" for any of the DC heroes does not simply exist. I don't know why.

their different universes, a whole army of white martians could be weaker than certain xmen foes, theres no way of telling which is stronger than the other

by the way, pheonix is a universal entity heheh, and she saved the universe with a few other characters in xmen: forever against the stranger and his ship prosh

How do you know Wonder woman has class 100 strength, then?

Response to Havo470 : The White Martians had Superman-level strength, martian vison, invulnerabilty, intangibilty, the ability to turn invisible, telepathy, telekinesis, shapeshifting and finally superspeed. There were 400 of them. If the X-Men went up against them, they'd lose hands down. You also neglected the other feats I mentioned. As for the Phoenix, the X-Men lost when they went against her. It took Prof. X and Jean to break the Phoenix's hold. The Phoenix saved the universe from the M'krann crystal with the help of the X-Men. That was the "ONCE" I mentioned. As for the absorption list, I admit I was wrong about Rogue absorbing Gladiator (must have confused with an alternate reality or that Saturday morning cartoon).

and how did you find wonder woman's strength level?

Response to Supessucks: I didn't. The DC Comics Corporation does not release the official handbooks like Marvel. So I judged her strength on expert opinions and past feats. (i.e. supporting the moon, pulling the Earth back to its normal orbit with the help of SM and MM, supporting a celestial craft the size of a city).

I'm sure all of those massive objects weigh much more than 100 tons

the list wasnt meant to prove you wrong though, i just found it and this site is good so i thought it would be useful to put it up

in xmen:forever it wasnt even the xmen she saved the universe with, it was iceman, mystique, juggernaut, toad, and herself, the other memebers against pheonix doesnt really prove much as pheonix is part of the team

what i was trying to say is that these two teams are of different universes, where as avengers members are weaker than the JLA characters (solely in power) the avengers also go up against hordes of enemies and through the translation of these two different universes it would only be fair to keep the xmen and JLA at an even amount of substance

I too am logical, so let us speak logically. I have no loyalty to the X-Men, rather a disdain for fanatical ignorance, hence I leave my personal preferences out of this debate. I am willing to look at both sides of the coin. I have seen the members of the X-men defeated just as I have seen members the Justice League defeated. I only asked that you be more specific than the routine "Ahh, the Justice League would win."

very well put

More specific?! Look at the first page! The seven paragraph battle was by me! (*sob* no one appreciates my work)

Thank you havoc.

Draco, I do appreciate your work, however all I have seen is your constant effort, to prove the X-men's inferiority, not the Leagues supremacy.

Im sorry, was looking at the rest of the forum Draco, my apologies.

In terms of strength, skill, speed, and pure power, yes the X-Men are vastly inferior. This isn't a popularity contest. It's a battle. Superman would beat Collosus, WW would beat Rogue, GL would beat Storm and so on. There's no skipping around the issue. Wolverine, however, would be the living snot out of Batman. I put the battle together as it was. In terms of courage, compassion and virtue the X-Men are equal if not more than the JLA. The X-Men fight for a dream. JLA fight for...something. The X-Men is equal to the JLA. It's just that the JLA would wipe the floor with X-Men if they ever got into a fight.

...Wonderwoman...lol.(I'm drunk..sorry)

I have already read your story, and it is very biased in the favor of superman. In your story he defeats over 50% of the X-Men.

How does he defeat Iceman while grappling with colossus.

Whobdamondog, The characters listed for the X-Men are in fact some the most powerful members of the X-Men. Cable was an option, but he's not integral to the X-Men. X-Man was an X-Man for like a day. I can't think of any other powerful members that would give the JLA a run for their money.

The JLA members listed is final. They ARE the JLA. I'm not going to add Vixen or Huntress to make things easier for the X-Men. You seem to object having Superman, GL, WWa and for some reason Aquaman on the team. What would be left? The Outsiders? And if you've read any of the previous threads. I like the X-Men BETTER than the JLA. I'm just mature enough to recognize that they would lose against the JLA.

Your story is full of weaknesses. What happened to wonder woman while rouge had her power? You skipped that part.

sorry, they're referred to as typographical errors, hope I'm not arousing any anger. Depending on how long rouge touched WW, she would be without her power, for a time exactly 60 seconds times longer than she was touched.

Whoops, I thought you were referring to my spelling...

I still feel that the X-men are more powerful than the Justice league. The story is biased towards the Justice league.

*Sigh* Okay, that's your opinion

I'm the man dog...don't you forget it...

Anyway...In regards to your other statements...

The team you have created is powerful..no doubt about it..but for arguments sake..they still pale in comparison to the JLA team you have selected.

Post Crisis Supes has moved a freakin moon.. Aquaman has lifted an entire city, and lets not forget to include his telepathic ablities..

Now you say that these three are evenly matched with an ambigously gay russian, dwarf with an attitude, and a dude whose most monumental feat is banging Jean Gray? Riiiiiiiiightt buuudy...you keep dreaming...

Dude.. the only weak link you have on that team is Batman..but we all know about his extrodinary prep time abilities...so I bet you if he prepared before the battle..he could take both teams.

The only way this battle is going to be more evenly matched is if you let Jean fully utilize the Pheonix Force.

All right WD, what X-Team would you create to face the JLA?

Colossus is not gay. He's Ultimate version is.

Jean could utilize the Phoenix Force if it allowed her to. The Phoenix on the X-Men back in the 80s was not really Jean but a clone. The Phoenix during the Morrison run had the power to reshape time and space (and she did). Jean has never truly utilized the Phoenix Force in the comics, so adding it to the team would be fictitious. A cosmic entity with the power of creation would be completely unfair to JLA.

okay lets even things up a bit the..

and by the way I said "ambigously gay.." which means his sexuality is a mystery..lol

Anyway here goes

X-team consists of

Pheonix(Rachel Summers version can almost fully utilize pheonix force. Damb powerful IMO)

Nightcrawler

Rogue

Magneto...lol..He was a member for a while...

Storm

Iceman

Magneto? Okay, whatever. Judging the roster, the victory still goes to the JLA. Storm and Iceman are taken out the same way, I had before. Nightcrawler would teleport around, hitting the JLA at all angles. But his blows wouldn't do much. One good hit from any of them would take him out. Most likely the Flash. Magneto is one the most powerful beings in the Marvel Universe. But against GL, that means the big doughnut. The ring can generate any and all energies. That's why its the most powerful weapon in the universe. Rachel Summers is extremely powerful. But shes still does not know how to use the Phoenix Force to its full potential. Shes a teenager, and still vastly inexperienced compared to the JLA roster. She'd probably be the last one to go down.

P.S. From what I know about the current run with Claremont. Rachel no longer has access to the Phoenix Force. The eye tattoo and the fire is just fluff. She's still incredibly powerful with her TK and telepathy.

jla still win.

the only thing cyclops is good for is leading and organising the team.

if he actually cut loose he could be useful but he won't he'll be too busy trying to keep everyone alive and looked after.

green arrow is probably the weakest of all, he'd be knocked out in a second (pick almost any x-man to do it)

colossus is the only one who would physically last (if its current colossus), he could take down mm if he was kept out of piotr's mind, thereby handing an advantage to the x-men.

i dont think rogue would last against supes or ww.

still say jla...

I don't know Draco, It looks to me like your more of a JLA fanboy than you are a X-boy...

Anyway, I still think your cutting the JLA way too much slack. The Manhunter would go down rather quickly against Pheonix, due to his fire phobia. Batman would definately fall before Nightcrawler. Aquaman and Iceman would be a good matchup, and the battle could go either way.

The last two standing on the X team would probably be Magneto and Pheonix, and on the JLA side it would probably be Superman and Wonder Woman. If Phoenix were using her full power, I would probably favor her and Magneto over Wonder Woman Supes.

Jean doesn't KNOW MM is vulnerable to flame (and he isn't anymore). MM is a better telepath than Jean. He's been raised in a society of telepaths. He once connected telepathically with every person on Earth. He once mindwiped 70 different people all over the globe. Jean would need Cerebra to accomplish these feat

Whobdamondog, YOU are cutting the X-Men way too much slack. GL would neutralize Magneto. Why? His ring can do anything. Magneto is bound to one element. GL is bound by the power of his imagination and willpower. The Flash can travel at speeds exceeding light. He could take out most of the X-Men by himself. In actuality, I'm really counting the X-Men some slack. Rachel as the Phoenix, is just a teenager. She lacks experience. She put up a hell of fight but against a man wielding the most powerful weapon in any universe, a god-like alien, and a goddess reborn, she would lose. I don't know why you even added Nightcrawler. Sure he can teleport around, hitting and kicking every person he sees. But he would have to constantly teleport to avoid attack. Eventually he would be tagged. And no way is the Dark Knight losing to the Fuzzy Elf.

You've accused me of being a JLA fanboy. I'm not. I recognize the facts. I'm not going to go out of wing, and create a X-Men team that has never existed in order for my favorite team to win. Which perfectly describes you. I give facts, you give assumptions. You're a X-Men fanboy with an obvious bias against the JLA. I'm neutral.

You're deluding yourself. Anyway you put it the JLA would topple the X-Men. No amount of whining and badgering is going to change that.

well put it this way, the jla is essentially dc's best and brightest, the x-men is not. pit dc's best against marvels and thats a good fight. theres a huge list. jla beats x-men, its not a fair battle to begin with.

For the last damb time..I'm referring to the Rachel Summer's version of Pheonix..not Jean Freakin Gray ..That version went toe to toe with Necrom(a powerful wizard who had access to the Pheonix Force) and was moving MF'ing planets around with her power... She doesn't have to know that Martian Manhunter has a weakness to fire..Hell..most of her power consists of a pyrokenetic flame like aura..MM's toast as soon as he sees her power up..



Let me get this straight...You believe a mere mortal in a Holloween Costume...whose had his back broken by a steroid user.. is going to overcome a metahuman who can teleport at will and has fighting abilities on par with some of the greatest in comics?

BWAH HA HA HAH AHAHAHAH...what the hell have you been smoking boy?...Can I have some when your done?

As far as Magneto goes..Do some Science Homework son. Magneto has control over everything in the electromagnetic spectrum..The key emphasis is on the word "electro-MAGNETIC." This includes light..electricity..shit just about everything. And we've seen what Magneto can do when he get's pissed..Iron from the blood..contolling electrical impulses in the brain...I don't really think that GL would have an easy time with him.....



The X-Team that I've used is very similar to the 80's version. I believe it consisted of Pheonix(Rachel Summer's Version..Don't say Jean Gray anymore..:mad, Magneto, Shadowcat, Colussus, Wolverine...and Storm..I could be wrong however..but I know the lineup was very similar.

Neutral? Puhleaase... I know the X-men would probably loose..but come on..You've given the JLA huge advantages. I mean everything in your scenario points to one conclusive fact..get ready for this..duh..duh.duuuh..daaah..
YOUR A FREAKING JLA FANBOY..AND YOU KNOW IT...BWHAHHAHAHAHAHA...ER..UM.HA..HA...

Whodamondog, why I'm arguing with drunken illiterate Jack Black wannabe like you is beyond me. Now I know how John Kerry felt during his debate with George Bush.

First, I'm well aware the facially tattooed Rachel Summers. Her using the Phoenix Force was considered during the fight. Her power is unimaginable, and MM doesn't likely stand much of chance against her alone. That's why I said she would be the last of the X-Men standing. And her pyrokinetic aura (use the spellcheck tab) is not fire. It's cosmic aura that simply looks like fire. When the original Phoenix was holding the White Queen in her talons, Emma wasn't burnt to crisp. The fire is a metaphor for the fire that creates life and thusly destroys it.

I'm a triple major at Drew University (BY THE WAY, EVERYONE: YAY I GOT ACCEPTED AS A TRANSFER TO CORNELL. I'M SO HAPPY! I JUST GOT IT TODAY. COMPARED TO THE $40,000 I HAD TO PAY AT DREW NOW I ONLY HAVE TO PAY $6000 AFTER FINANCIAL AID TO CORNELL. WE ARE GOING TO PARTY TONIGHT!) and science is one of them. The electromagnetic spectrum is misnomer. It applies to the different types of radiation. It has little to do magnetism at all in fact. The electromagnetic spectrum consists of gamma waves, radio waves, visible light waves, microwaves, infrared waves, and x-rays . That's the middle school version. The electromagnetic spectrum is just a dialect of wavelengths and energies that translate to radiation. Now Magneto has stated many times he has complete control of the entire electromagnetic spectrum. This may or may not be a mistake made by the writer who lacks scientific knowledge. If Magneto had complete control over the entire electromagnetic spectrum, he would have displayed control over microwaves, and would have used in fashion like the Avenger Firestar. If he had control over gamma rays, why not create an army of Hulks? Gamma rays are incredibly volatile. It's often used to create nuclear warheads. Why not use them to destroy his enemies? Magneto has never used his powers to control light, so we can assume he doesn't have it. Same thing with x-rays. Magneto's powers match his namesake. He has magnetic powers. Control over metallic proprieties. He also has access to the electromagnetic field that surrounds our planet. He can disrupt radio waves and electrical energies because it travels through the electromagnetic field. The others don't (not conventionally anyway, it's more complicated than that, but I won't get into that..your head may explode if it hasn't already)

Nightcrawler is a very good fighter. He wields a very unique style of fighting that many comic book readers enjoy. But his teleporting takes a lot out of him. Dodging a speed demon, rapid-fire heat vision, dozens of batarangs, and green plasma teletubbies would require continuous teleporting. Eventually he would be taken out. If Batman were to face him, the battle would at first favor Nightcrawler. But if his prior feats show anything, they show that Batman is an iceman ( a calculated fighter) who eventually detect a pattern in his teleportation. Sonic weapons, tear gas and any other scary crap Brucie has in his utility belt would be sufficient to take Kurt out. Batman's a master tactician who's survived hell and worse. A teleporter is just old news to him.

Give it up Whodamondog, cause you're not "the man". Just a dog. You have nothing to offer but a blatant inferiority complex and a bitter taste of poor grammer. I can tell you don't read my arguments, that in itself would be a miracle, so you make annoying jargon that's completely devoid of facts and just full of stupidity. Give it up, and just bow before your intellectual superior. (Yeah, I know I'm arrogant bastard sometimes

I totally agree with you. (not about the fanboy part.) Using his magnetic fields, Magneto could manipulate any metal that anyone was wearing, (e.g.:Wonder Woman's Bracelets, Green Lantern's RING.) or any other form of energy. Rachel's powers far exceed Martian Manhunters, (The girl moved planets with her mind.) She could easily use her telepathic powers on Superman. Nightcrawler could definately take down Flash (teleport in front of him, crushing kick to the face, bye-bye, Barry,) or Batman, (Need I explain? He can't fight half as well as Nightcrawler. Against Nightcrawler's teleportation and agility, Batman would never land a punch! Nightcrawler dodges close range bullets for Christ's sake!) Nightcrawler's spatial awareness would make his teleportation combos lethal to the human JLA members. Good team Whobdamandog, justice league would get their asses handed to them.

*Sigh* Read the thread after Whodamondog. You'll see that I refuted everything.

ok

Yay! I converted one! (clasps hands in a very Mr. Burns fashion)

lol...this thread is funny.........

Wow, Draco, such passion! You are a worthy opponent. (no matter how sarcastic that sounds, I mean it.).

However I still disagree.

Magneto's power is the manipulation of magnetic fields. Magnetic fields, if powerful enough, can control any form of electromagnetic radiation. (you and I both know what that is.) In fact physicists hypothesize using magnetic fields as a means of controlling a fusion reaction. As you might imagine, it takes a hell of a magnetic field to control such a reaction, as it would require a hell of a magnetic field to control any form of high frequency electromagnetic radiation. Magneto is very powerful, and has the ability to manipulate the lower frequency electromagnetic waves(radio waves, infrared light). He is not yet powerful enough to (or hasn't found a way to,) manipulate visible light, or gamma rays or x-rays, or microwaves, or any other high energy waves. However he is capable of controlling matter such as plasma, which is a state of matter, not energy. He could possibly dispel any of Green Lantern's plasma devices or simply remove his ring.

Nightcrawler is faster, much more agile, and a better fighter than Batman. He grew up fighting for his life. And I'm sorry, teleporting does not take a lot out of Nightcrawler, he does it quite effortlessly. He could disarm Batman fairly easily using his superspeed and teleportation. Batman would never know what hit him.

Sorry to dissapoint.

heh.....

Ah yes, physics. A "science" based on nothing but unproven hypothesis. I think you're pertaining to the theoritcal foundations of the electromagnetic field. Maxwell's equations on the limitations and potentials of wavelength energy, 'far-field' radiation and the subsequent geometrical theory of diffraction make up this foundation. (one might also argue that the the duality, uniqueness, image, reciprocity, equivalence theorem also apply but its methods of equation tend to make it tenative) Electric fields are created by differences in voltage: the higher the voltage, the stronger will be the resultant field. Magnetic fields are created when electric current flows: the greater the current, the stronger the magnetic field. An electric field will exist even when there is no current flowing. If current does flow, the strength of the magnetic field will vary with power consumption but the electric field strength will be constant. One of the main characteristics which defines an electromagnetic field (EMF) is its frequency or its corresponding wavelength. Fields of different frequencies interact with the body in different ways. One can imagine electromagnetic waves as series of very regular waves that travel at an enormous speed, the speed of light. The frequency simply describes the number of oscillations or cycles per second, while the term wavelength describes the distance between one wave and the next. Hence wavelength and frequency are inseparably intertwined: the higher the frequency the shorter the wavelength.

These key facts make up the bedrock that springs into electomagnetic field theory. (which I admit, I just got into). Magento may or may not be capable of manipulating the elecromagnetic spectrum, but prior events show that he may not be able to because, as you said, it requires a greater amount of energy to make the output convert from non-ionizing to ionizing. Non-ionizing electromagnetic radiation applies to radiation at at lower frequencies, such as radio frequencies. Short fat radiation frequencies require ionizing radiation which Magneto has not yet demostrated.

I just realized something. Why are we debating a comic book character written by people who don't know about electromagnetic fields? Magneto's fiction! For God's Sake, the Marvel Universe has a giant purple giant who has taste for planets! The laws of physics are useless in their world. I feel soooo stupid.

I am impressed with you knowledge of physics. However most of what you said was irrelevant to the arguement. Magneto has no source of electricity (aside from himself) from which to draw upon thus the Electric Field theorum is is extraneous to the arguement. I daresay you are throwing unimportant unrelated facts at me. It sounds as though you picked up a physics book and started hurling vocabulary terms.

Like I said in the my WW vs. Hulk, Physics is not my cake. I yielded already, give me break And no I'm not that psychotic to pick up a physics book and "hurl vocabulary terms", it was all at the top of my head. I don't like this site THAT much.

Once again, science has destroyed the bylaws of sticking to the original topic.

Oh... Sorry.

Yay, Whodamondog is here! Read pg. 5 thread

Someone give this man an A++...That's a pretty decent thesis you wrote there.....

I think you better do a little more studying kiddo..or else you would know that Mangetism plays a huge part in manipulating different wavelengths and frequencies within the spectrum.

If we were to look at Magento's power from a scientific perspective
let us first break this argument down to a level that everyone can understand.

As you so humbly stated...Magnetism in essence, is essentially generated by the differences in wavelengths between two types of matter that reside within the spectrum. It doesn't just have to do with just metal my friends... but the various wavelengths we all resonate from our bodies(which are also composed of matter)

Magneto has been seen to lift human up into the air, create force fields..and even fire electrical bolts a more than one occasion..

Now in order to do this..he'd have to be controlling more than one wavelength on the spectrum...But then again these are comic books..no one really gives damb..It doesn't make logical sense for a dude to have superpower's now does it...Comic book are a fictional medium..lol..and when you try to add realism to to the unreal you kind of just end up with.duh..duh..duh..duh..scientific wannabe jargon..or in laman terms..BULLSHIT..LOL



WTF? Come now laddy..Please answer me on logical question? Is the topic of this thread NIGHTCRAWLER VS THE JLA?

Uhhh..did we forget about Pheonix, Magneto, Storm, and the others..

It would seem so. Once again my man..let me reiterrate..your stacking up the cards for your (as tweety bird would say) "faayvwoite" comic team...In the scenario that you just mentioned above, you have multiple people attacking the "furry elf." I don't believe the JLA's going to swarm around Nightcrawler because of their fear of him defeating Batman..No my friend..I believe they'll have their hands full with the other members of the X-Team.

Answer just a couple more question for me puuuhlease..(sarcastic)

Is Bruce Wayne a freaking psychic?

How the hell is he going to detect where Nightcrawler is going to teleport? Please explain...

Does Bruce Wayne have an unlimited supply of tear gas and batarangs?

Can Bruce Wayne withstand a kick to the head from a legs that can lift approximately a ton of weight?




I agree I am a dog.(at least that's what my gal tells me..)

LOL..POOR GRAMMAR..LOL..go back thru your posts and do a spell and grammar check Draco...a scientist you may be..but an english teacher you ain't.. But then again we're just debating comic books not physics/science..lol.....it's all in good fun..at least one of us is smart enought to know that(not yourself mind you..)

keep it cool you two

Just joking Paola...lol..don't take offense to my posts please people..

This has been a damb fun debate..Okay Draco I'm waitiiiiiinn..lol

Oh one more thing..I thought MM's vulnerability to fire was based on a "fire phobia" rather than the fire actually physically hurting him. If this is true..than the fire wouldn't really have to burn in order for Pheonix to manage a defeat..

It's nice to be wanted.

I read your post. It was interesting. For some reason, you wanted to argue the validity of magnetism having greater control over wavelengths and frequencies, then suddenly you switched gears by saying that it was fruitless to argue about science when it concerns a fictional character. I agree with the latter statement (nice to know we agree on something). The former statement is iffy at best. If you really get in depth (no, I'm on my winter break, and I'm not gonna argue about a science that's purely theoretical.) you'll find that magnetism does not have that much of an affect on the electromagnetic spectrum. (like I said its a misnomer) You still don't seem to understand what it is about. For example, you mentioned that "Magnetism in essence, is essentially generated by the differences in wavelengths between two types of matter that reside within the spectrum. It doesn't just have to do with just metal my friends... but the various wavelengths we all resonate from our bodies" I don't know where you got this, but this completely wrong. A wavelength is not an actual energy. It's just a mathematical unit to measure electromagnetic radiation. Wavelengths are converted to meters, and frequencies is converted to cycles of a second. We don't have wavelengths resonating from our bodies, we have radiation resonating from our bodies. I think you got the two confused. You have bare aspects right, but not the entire concept as a whole.

Nightcrawler cannot lift 1 ton. The Official Marvel Handbook on the X-Men states that his max lifting strength is 800 lbs. One ton equals two-thousand pounds. Batman does not have telepathy, but he's a brilliant tactician. If Nightcrawler attacked Batman first and managed to teleport rapidly with a dozen punches and kicks, then yes NC would beat Batman. If Batman faced Nightcrawler in the latter portion of the battle, than no. Batman would have deduced a pattern or trend in Nightcrawler's attack (i.e. teleporting from behind) and the elements that come with his teleportation (i.e. brimstone smell, and a "bamf" smell). Batman would take him out with preptime. Nightcrawler's been beaten by lesser opponents. (i.e. the flamethrower guy in the London tunnels.

Green Lantern's ring is capable of anything. It cannot be taken off magnetically because its not made of metal. Its made of a element native to Oa. Green Lantern faced down Dr. Light (who actually controls the entire electromagnetic spectrum) and prevailed. Green Lantern's ring makes hard light plasma holograms that can imitate any and all energies. The plasma is like a elemental stem cell, it doesn't know what to be unless the ring bearer tells it what it wants to be. That's why it can become anything. Rock, gas, fire, water, metal, concussive energy, anything. Magneto may have incredibly powerful but hes bound to one energy type, one power. GL's ring has access to all energy types. It's only limit is the ring-bearer's imagination. The ring also houses a supercomputer that contains the knowledge and wisdom of past Green Lanterns. Whenever it encounters a new threat that it hasn't before, then the ring is automatically programmed to scan the opponent for any weaknesses. Magnetism is nothing new. The Guardians once said the laws of science yield to the green power ring. GL can do anything he's little heart desires as long as he has the willpower to back it. He once contained a giant supernova, an exploding supersun with the power of innumerable nuclear warheads. He literally can do anything. Magneto would put up a good fight. But his powers and limitations is old news to GL. GL once went up against a guy named Justice who wielded incredible electromagnetic powers and won. His ring has already developed strategies and defenses prior to that fight and subsequently this fight.

You're a good debater, WD. But you skip around the issues. I have consistently met all of your arguments head on. You haven't. You still haven't refuted my argument about MM. Or my argument about GL. As for the Phoenix, Rachel is a rookie plan and simple. The JLA faced down 400 white martians, an army of angels, an ancient sun that would destroy the entire universe, and even God himself. The Phoenix would give a good fight, but with Batman's ingenuity, Supes and WW's raw power, MM's telepathy and the most powerful weapon in any weapon. The Phoenix and the X-Men go down. Sorry for the lateness by the way. I was watching a football game with my dad.

my head hurts............to many.......big.......words...... brain..cant.......take......it

Sorry.

Draco, don't say the ring isn't metal if you can't prove it.

On the issue of Nightcrawler vs. Batman

Nightcrawler is not bound to a specific pattern of teleportation; he can teleport into the air, on the ground, or wherever he likes. He is also much stronger and faster than Batman by human standards, and is a more experienced fighter. Batman is a orphan rich-boy who has taken martial arts lessons and foiled numerous supervillians with his high tech gadgets. Nightcrawler is a mutant outcast who has had to fight since his early childhood to survive in a world that hates him. Nightcrawler is stronger, faster, more agile, and a better fighter than Batman. Strategy and weaponry simply isn't enough to save Batman in this fight. He doesn't stand a chance. Remember Draco, Batman is only human.

nightcrawler isnt half the fighter batman is, where the f*ck did u hear that he was?

Nightcrawler was born a fighter, Batman is a billionaire playboy with a couple of martial arts lessons. He hasn't experienced the hard knock life that Nightcrawler has lived.

Even if batman was a better fighter, Nightcrawler still beats him with his superior strength, speed, agility, and teleportation ability.

To Supessucks:

Quote: Draco, don't say the ring isn't metal if you can't prove it.

Response: It cannot be taken off magnetically because its not made of metal. Its made of a element native to Oa.

Batman has spent literally a third of his life going around the world learning and mastering every martial art known to man. He's met the best fighters in the world and bested them. Nightcrawler was raised by a gypsy family and was a performer at a circus for a third of his life. The people who saw him didn't know he was a mutant, but rather a heavily-disguised human with a costume. When he was found out, he didn't fight the village mobs. Case in point, he ran. He ran with his tail between his legs. Charles Xavier saved his sorry @$$ from the mob. Nightcrawler was never, and never will be, a better fighter than Batman. As I said before: " If Nightcrawler attacked Batman first and managed to teleport rapidly with a dozen punches and kicks, then yes NC would beat Batman. If Batman faced Nightcrawler in the latter portion of the battle, than no. Batman would have deduced a pattern or trend in Nightcrawler's attack (i.e. teleporting from behind) and the elements that come with his teleportation (i.e. brimstone smell, and a "bamf" smell). Batman would take him out with preptime. Nightcrawler's been beaten by lesser opponents. (i.e. the flamethrower guy in the London tunnels." Nightcrawler loses hands down. And please, do something about your obvious bias against anything that falls under the DC logo.

To Pr183: I agree

jesus f*cking christ

batman is trained in tons of martial arts, and is accomplished in all of them.

he beat lady shiva (the best martial artist in dc)

just so you know...

almost every x-man is human, they just have one or two extra abilities. their bodies are as vulnerable as ours in most cases.

cyclops, jean, storm, iceman, colossus (human form), professor x, magneto, nightcrawler...

First of all, Draco, Nightcrawler fought against the mob, but was obviously drastically outnumbered. Secondly, Batman has no power or superhuman abiltity. I like batman, however If he faces an opponent who possesses a superhuman abilities such as Nightcrawler he will surely lose. Nightcrawler teleports from one place to another instantaneously (mind you "instantaneously" means faster than the speed of light, as in immediately.) He is much more agile than any human, martial artist or not. He would hit Batman too many times and avoid too many of Batman's attacks. And finally, as I said Nightcrawler is not bound to a specific pattern of teleportation; he can teleport into the air, on the ground, or wherever he likes. There is no pattern for Batman to follow.

pr1893,

How about you tone down the language a bit? The debate really isn't that serious.

Batman can't hit what he can't see.

I resent that bias comment, Draco.

I happen to like just about every I know of DC Hero except for Superman. He's so... bland.

i didn't say it was... i just curse a lot

and batman can anticipate. even though nightcrawlers ability is random, his brain isn't. batman is the master at anticipating strategy. he'd figure him out sooner or later... but it won't be without injury by any means...

To supessucks:

Yes, I'm sure that the mob of farmers with pitchforks and obese housewives with butcher knives was quite the challenge for Kurt. Nightcrawler does teleport "instantaneously". Unfortunately, he has to think and react to teleport. By pattern, I did not mean dog-cat-cat-dog, but rather his fighting style. He can teleport anywhere he wants (provided that he sees where he's going). But his attacks are not instantaneous. Batman would get hit a lot, but eventually he would get his number. Batman would unload his utility belt releasing tear gas, sonic weapons, light flares, etc. Nightcrawler would be disoriented enough for Batman to take him out. Batman has faced numerous teleporters and has dispatched them all. Nightcrawler is faster, stronger and more agile. But Batman is a master tactician. He's outsmartted the best. All he needs is one good hit and Kurt's done. Batman is a better fighter, a lot smarter, and would prevail.

Who says that Nightcrawler would have to teleport for the entire fight? With his supreme agility, Nightcrawler could dodge all of Batman's attacks. Batman is Human. He gets tired. He would never be able to defeat Nightcrawler.

The Incredible Hulk could eventually anticipate Superman's movement, however in most arguements most people say Superman would instantly KO the green behemoth. Nightcrawler is stronger and faster than Batman. How do you know Nightcrawler wouldn't knock him out in the beginning?

that my friend is a fallacy...

and no hulk can't, he aint smart enough and doesnt think like a tactician, not even proffessor hulk does...

Whenever the JLA get into a battle, everybody else fights while Batman, the arrogant playboy he is, is waaaay in the back, completely hidden, sipping some Kool-aid, and ordering around the rest of JLA like they're cattle. I think Nightcrawler would be more concerned with the towering red and blue giant firing heat vision at the team.

that would probably be it....

batman would be similar to cyclops' role... keeping everyone organised and making sure nobody is exposed...

One hit from batman would definitely not take down Nightcrawler. Batman has the strength on an ordinary man. With his spatial awareness and reflexes, Nightcrawler could avoid all of Batman's weaponry. The fact of the matter is that Batman cannot defeat Nightcrawler as he would not be able to affect him with his weaponry. You say that Batman has beaten a teleporter before; I would have no knowledge of this, and it is an irellevant fact. Nightcrawler is not simply a teleporter. I doubt that Batman has fought anyone with Nightcrawler's degree of speed, strength, and agility, that Nightcrawler possesses with a teleporting ability.

Actually pr1983, professor Hulk is much smarter than Batman. Bruce banner is a genius

nightcrawler would be put by one good punch from batman. batman is olympic level human, nightcrawlers agility and teleportation don't make him stronger... he doesnt have enhanced strength.



a scientific genuius, not a tactical one, there is a difference...

To Supessucks:

Think of the aspects of Nightcrawler's teleportation. A sudden burst of purple and black gas. A very loud "bamf". And the sweet, pungent stench of rotten eggs. These aspects have been exploited before. If Nightcrawler teleported silently and without the fashionable entrance, than Nightcrawler would have a huge advantage. But he doesn't. Whenever he teleports, its loud, it stinks and is quite easy to spot. If Nightcrawler teleported behind Batman, ready to catch him by surprise with a spinning roundkick, Batman would parry the blow. Why? Because Batman would hear a very loud "Bamf", smell a disgusting scent of rotten eggs, and feel a rush of air that accompanies the teleportation.

I have already expressed the fact that Batman is outgunned. If fighting- ability and tactics are so absolute, why don't Batman and Captain America beat every other super hero.

Pr1983, all mutants possess strength levels superior to normal humans as their musculature and body systems are superior (hence the name Homo superior.)

The teleportation is instantaneous, as I said, Draco. When he teleports he is already in the midst of an attack.
And it's brimstone (aka sulfur), not rotten eggs.

first of all, i never said it did. the reason supes beats hulk is tactical thinking and strength combine to make him superior.

no they don't, homo superior simply means theyve evolved, they have new abilities. there are tons of mutants with strength levels the same as humans. being a mutant doesnt automatically improve your strength...

Please support arguements with facts, Draco. When was Nightcrawler's teleportation detected by a human, or more importantly by whom?

To Supessucks:

*Sigh* Sulfur SMELLS like rotten eggs. It doesn't matter if he's in the midst of an attack. With such a dramatic entrance, its all Batman needs to either parry the blow or hit him.

Whattya mean detect?! What's to detect?! Loud noise, bad smell, big burst of lavender and black air! Blind people could detect his teleportation.

Actually it does. http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/n/nightcrawler.htm
Notice that all mutants without superhuman strength possess strength of a human who engages in regular intensive exercise. Even the retired X-men.

yeah, olympic level supessucks, the guys been in a circus for years, bats is olympic level...

When I say detect, I mean detect and stop the attack. The recipient could detect the kick to the face.

When did Batman get the ability to react with superhuman speed? As I recall, Batman doesn't have any superhuman abilities.

pr1983, your point is invalid. Batman is too slow for Nightcrawler. He wouldn't land a punch.

Hello, I'm still here. Respond to previous thread