Why did Luke win over Vader in Ep6?

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DarthKris

Ushgarak
Several reasons:

1. Vader is not the sabre Master he was since his crippling injuries
2. Luke was getting better and better
3. Vader's feelings were dangerously conflicted at the time
4. The final push is when Luke started to give into his anger, which made him STRONG (note, I think the lesson is that you don't NEED anget to be strong but it is much easier that way).

All this together led to Luke's climatic victory.

ToMacco
Plus, Vader was drunk, so he couldn't respond as well.

King Jedi
laughing out loud

I remember a while ago, that question was asked somewhere (maybe the official site) and Lucas(I think) said one reason was who they were fighting for. At the end, Luke was fighting for his sister as he was trying to protect her. That was more powerfull than Vader fighting for the Emperor.

ToMacco
These are questions we may never have answers to. sad

King Jedi
They are all the right answer. Apart from Vader being drunk.

Ushgarak
A bit of luck, or in this case dramatic appropriateness, doesn't go amiss, of course.

DarthKris
well, thanks for the answers cause I only saw the romantic side of all this...
guess I really need to see ep2!
so anakin is the chosen one, right? big grin

yerssot
uhuh!!!!!

DarthKris
no? rolling on floor laughing
was simply a guess, read it on some sites...
luke is the chosen one?
why the heck...? his father is so much cooler... smokin'

yerssot
actually, GL said it himself that "He (anakin) is the chosen one, you must see it!"

DarthKris
well, I found out... big grin
thanks anyway smile

Gundark
I used to think Luke was the chosen one, but I have no doubt now that it is Anakin.

DarthKris
yep, anakin is cool, no doubt!
luke is, well, to say it in a smoothing way, not like his father. cool

JediOasis
Luke defeated his father because he was the better fighter and it was his destiny. Yoda and Obi-Wan knew Luke could do it, so apparently he was ment to beat Anakin/Vader. For all we know Luke could be stronger in the Force, but Anakin could still be the Choosen One. Lucas is big on that whole destiny thing, so we won't know for sure until EP III.

DarthKris
actually I can't really believe luke is stronger than anakin.
maybe stronger than vader cause he wears this armour thing which must be indeed very heavy and luke that little whatever can move without any extra-weight.
I think that Anakin is the greatest Jedi ever.

Mujaffa
Luke and Leia are the chosen ones. the legend of so long was wrong. there's always two of them.... a jedi and his padawan

Ushgarak
Err... (backs away slowly)

finti
laughing out loud laughing out loud sorry cant be serious about this one

JediOasis
Luke and Leia may not be the Choosen One's but there is no rule saying they can't be stronger in the Force. That question won't be answered until EP III.

ToMacco
Jesus Christ.

Anakin was the chosen one. Luke couldn't do a damn thing, either could Leia.

All Luke was capable of doing was reminding Vader that he was once Anakin. His pleas while dying was enough for Vader to reolize he once loved, not hated.

DarthKris
true...
luke or leia choosen ones??? nope
remember ep1: he is the one who will bring balance to the force
he destroyed the jedi order, because there were too many good jedis and too few sith
then luke had to build up a new order, but the galaxy was in balance- that is

Ushgarak
That's wrong, I am afraid.

Anakin is indeed the Chosen One but destroying the Jedi has nothing to do with bringing balance to the Force; this has always been a very odd idea that some people hold.

As GL has made clear, it is the SITH who unbalance the Force. It is the destructiion of the Sith that restored the Balance.

But the corruption of Anakin meant that he failed, at first, in his destiny and wiped out the Jedi first.

Luke pulled off a blinder by allowing Anakin, as GL put it, to 'reflect on his life' and destroy the Emperor.

If Anakin had wiped out the Sith without destroying the Jedi, then balance would have been created with far fewer problems. But the story would have been far less interesting.

I've never understood the view that the Jedi had to be wiped out to restore balance; it's a very over-literal interpretation of the word. But are we meant to think that Luke will now create an equal amount of dark side and light side Jedi? Of course not!

The Light Side brings balance, the dark side destroys it. Only the evil Sith abuse the Force so. It is only they wo create the imbalance.

Captain REX
I agree with Ush.

JediOasis
Does that mean that after Anakin there could never again be Sith? Since he is the Choosen One and its his destiny to rid the galaxy of the Sith, then what happens when he is gone and another Sith comes around? The whole prophecy thing seems shady to me.

Ushgarak
Well, the Prophecy simply speaks of this specifc time when the Force will be unbalanced.

Anything that happens after that is someone else's problem. But it is not as if Anakin removed all the evil from the Universe!

jedi fernando

JediOasis
Well, thats my point. Once Anakin is gone what happens when a new Sith comes around? I'm not referring to ressurected Emperors or anything like that, but what if another Count Dooku were to come along? Would they take over everything without any interferance since the Choosen One is dead?

Ushgarak
Not necessarily. But they might. Who knows what will come in the future?

You don't NEED a Chosen One to beat the Sith in all instances, you know. This whole story is a specific case.

jedi fernando

Ushgarak
Well, I'm not exactly a huge EU person.

But it is the principle of the thing. It's entirely possible that a thousnad years later the balance will slip again. Like I say, this is hardly the defeat of all evil!

JediOasis
So is the next Jedi who whipes out the new Sith that comes along also the Choosen One since they restored the balance?

Ushgarak
Errr... no. Why would you think that? What is balanced can become unbalanced again, of course. I doubt there will be a new Chosen One for every time that happens!

JediOasis
I know what you are saying and I kind of agree. Anakin Skywalker is the Choosen One as described in the prophecy. But the way Lucas talks about it, it seems as if there can be no other Sith after Anakin dies cause that would bring back the unbalanced galaxy that Anakin had balanced.

jedi fernando
agree with jedioasis, i do.

Ushgarak
I doubt that is MEANT to be the case. Not in the fullness of time, anyway.

Bantha Fodder
Anakin is the chosen one, because it is he who defeats Darth Sideous. Luke isn't powerful enough to waste the emperor, his role is to redeem his father. A very cool story if you think about it, because if Anakin had followed Jedi code and remained celibate, then the Emperor would never have been defeated. Anakin HAD to impregnate Padme, he had to turn to the dark side to "infiltrate" Palpatine's graces and earn his trust, without being so reckless and impulsive, Anakin would never have brought balance to the force.

Ushgarak
That is speculation. I don't think we currently have any reason to think that he could not just have done it anyway, if he had not fallen along the way.

Bantha Fodder
It's not speculation, it's what happened. It's the story.

You're the one speculating when you say that Anakin could have destroyed the Sith without falling to the dark side. That didn't happen and is thus speculation. Get it?

The interesting part I think is that only this "choosen one" would be powerful enough to destroy the Sith. But perhaps Anakin's problems arise because of his power. Is it because of his tremendous power that he cannot control his emotions, that he feels Obi-Wan is stunting his growth.? And because of his power, Palpatine takes interest in him and uses his power to turn him to the dark side...but could Anakin have destroyed Palpatine outright?

Perhaps the question should be, are ANY jedi powerful enough to detect Palpatine's use of the dark side of the force? It seems that he is so powerful that not even Yoda can sense what he truly is, and certainly Anakin cannot. The only way to fight his "insidiousness" is with an insidious strategy, and unknowingly, Anakin does this by becoming Palpatine's apprentice. It is only by earning Palpatine's trust that Anakin is able to destroy him, and the ONLY way to earn his trust is to actually turn to the dark side. Thus, it is essential that Luke redeem his father, and it is essential that Anakin have offspring.

Ushgarak
Don't be silly; you are being speculative, and I am merely saying so. Just because the film happened the way it did does not mean that was the only way it could happen; unless you can prove that from what was seen in the film it is purely speculation.

Unless it is specifally said that Palpatine could ONLY be defeated by Anakin turning to the dark side, that is PURE speculation. It also detracts from the drama of Anakin's fall; it's not even remotely tragic if it was actually necessary.

GordonSkywalker
When I first saw Return of the Jedi back in 1983, I got the impression that it was Luke who brought down Palpatine and the evil Empire, and not Anakin. My reason was that had Luke not confronted the evil that corrupted his father,nothing would have changed,and the Empire would have remained in place. Now I have seen and studied The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, I believe Anakin was the one mentioned in that obscure prophecy refered to in the two films. wink

Ushgarak
That and that GL has said so.

GordonSkywalker
Nobody here even knows what the exact wording of the ancient prophecy says. It might say Anakin's fall was neccessary to bring balance to the Force.It might even mention Palpatine. Who is to know? By the time of The Phantom Menace, it was considered to be a legend and not real. Obi-Wan did not give much credence to the prophecy at first. At least, not until after Qui-Gon was cut down by Maul. Yoda did not seem to know if Anakin was the one mentioned in the prophecy, but said either way, he feared for his training.

Ushgarak
Actually, no-one seems to doubt the genuine nature of the Prophecy- simply on whether it was actually happening then or not.

GordonSkywalker
Like how Mace Windu and Yoda responded to the announcement and claims made by Qui-Gon concerning Anakin and the vergence in the Force. They didn't appear to know what to think! And the whole matter was later put aside for the rest of the film, by sending Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan back to Naboo with the Queen. By Attack of the Clones, it is Obi-Wan who is unsure of Anakin, now his apprentice , being the Chosen One . While Yoda and Mace seem to be more at home with the idea, if you know what I mean.

Captain REX
Well, if some Jedi Master who thinks differently than you comes before you saying he has a boy who is the Prophecy, you wouldn't know what to think either, would ya?

GordonSkywalker
The point is taken.

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