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Many are going to say Original Beyonder & Living Tribunal win hands down but when its all said and don Lucifer Morningstar & Archangels Michael win..

Well, living tribunal is in charge of the marvel multiverse, whereas lucifer and michael are 2 of the most powerful in the DCU (a multiverse consolidated into one universe). However, lucifer has been present at the start of 3 universes in total (DCU, lucifers universe, and elaine's universe).

The (true) beyonder, however, is outside of both the marvel and DC multiverses and is powerful throughout the megaverse, so he could probably beat the other 3 by himself

original beyonder is the same beyonder after the retcon.


he isnt that powerful, and he never was that powerful. he would be a non factor.

* is that the true beyonder who was from outside the marvel multiverse?

yes, the original beyonder was retconned into a much less powerful being. the same one that landed on the celestial "home world" and humbled the entire celestial host.


he later encountered a single celestial and kubik was deathly afraid of it, and said that he and the beyonder should move on before it irradicated them.

but if we are talkin about the original beyonder, then that doesnt matter

the original beyonder had the same amount of power/abilities as he did after the retcon...



he was merely creating illusions to make himself look that powerful

That's what the reckon did. When "Original" Beyonder is used, what's meant by that was before he was reckoned. The Beyonder that was all powerful and no one could match...BEFORE Marvel decided to lower his statis and make his SW I & II feats into merely illusions.

It's basically how does the Original (the first intended) Beyonder and LT do against Michael & Lucifer.

the reason I think Lucifer & Michael could win is because together there power is on another level. the Lt and the sw beyonder were powerful but they never should the power to effect a whole multiverse at once. I know Lt and the sw beyonder can destroy may universes with ease but the have never shown ther power on a multiversely level

lucifer and micheal can win against the tribunal with ease, but the problem arises with the beyonder{for simplicity's sake lets just refer to him as not the beyonder of secret wars but as one of the TRUE BEYONDERS that live in the beyond realm}
because the beyonder is neither boound nor affected or is under any of the physical or mystical rules, concepts or boundries of the universe or multiverese, his nature is BEYOND everything, and he did have the power to destroy an entire multiverse{but hasnt shown the power to CREATE one, but its possible}, so its kinda confusing

but lucifer stood on ground zero of the demiurgic explosion, the explosion that could wipe out a multiverse, and didn't even get a tan.

yea, but the MULTIVERSE itself is ruled by a definate set of concepts{the endless}, and other things, but the beyond realm is said to be beyond the comprehension of nethin or ne 1 to understand

so in other beyonder may or maynot be able to defeat lucifer

Guys do you know what the two angels can do? on there own they can create and distroy universes and together they can create multiverses. Lucifer Morningstar stood right in front of the demiurgic explosion and didnt even flinch and for your info the two angels are also beyond the laws of time and space they can actually create the concepts of time and space themselves. Lucifer Morningstar has been seen beyond the boundaries of existance. The beyonders powers were described in the end of secret wars II as being 300 times more powerful then the multiverse now for guys who can whip up a multiverse i dont think there is a contest.

y do people always make these threads like this its stupid. there is no way to tell who would win because both of them could kill each other as easily as lifting a finger

no way to tell who would win? cosmic versus angelic power? ANGELIC WINS why did anyone even argue the point. Dont you people read about these guys? Micheal and Lucifer Morningstar are like LT times 2 EACH.

not exactly, as i understand, lucifer and micheal can create time and existance but nothing really outside of that, the beyond realm is beyond anthing and everything, laws, rules concepts, u name it, it is incomprehensible, plus micheal and lucifer TOGETHER can create a multiverse, not alone, and if just one of the beyonder race has 300 times more power then the entire marvel multiverse then id say that puts the beyonders on a position which is only second to the mysterious, THE ONE ABOVE ALL.

Beyonder and Tribunal win this easily. Lucifer and Michael are really powerful, but Tribunal still technically has domain over them if you really think about it.

Tribunal has power of judgment over all creations of "The One Above All". That's his sole purpose. His purpose isn't really to go to battle or anything like that, he simply keeps order in all creation and existence and has the means to do so when necessary. There really is no power greater than his other than that of the the creator because his power comes from the power that created all power and all existence, if you get me, and his sole purpose, granted by the power that created all power and all existence, is to govern all power and all existence, at all levels.

The only one above Tribunal is the Creator, period.

There are other unimaginably powerful beings out there, but if it becomes necessary for the Tribunal to step in and stop them, he has all the power and means necessary to do it.

.

As for the original Beyonder, he's simply half the power of a cosmic cube that became sentient, so he's powerful, but really not all that powerful. He's still a part of existence, even if from a incomprehendable dimension beyond the 'multiverse' they are still below the Creator (they wouldn't exist if The Creator didn't create them), and therefore below the Tribunal, and therefore Tribunal still has domain over him and every being from that dimension when and if it becomes necessary. The One Above All (or the Highest GOD) created everything on every level and plane of existence and gave Tribunal domain and judgement over it all. All those "Cosmic" items and "Infinity" items get their power from the source of all power, and Tribunal was granted domain over all power by the source of all power. I really don't see a reason to place Tribunal in battles. Unless you make him fight The Creator he has no equal or superior, that is the way The Creator set things in order, and that's simply how it is.

Umm you havent read the Lucifer comics have you? Or even the bio's they both existed before creation and yes they can create the concepts of time and space. The tribunal and the beyonder cant come close to beings who existed before creation itself and Lucifer Morningstar has been seen living beyond the boundaries of reality thats his way of getting out of his former masters universe. To Micheal and Lucifer Morningstar time and space are play things and even when he is not an angel Lucifer Morningstar has beaten gods what are you people talking about the LT and Beyonder are above or equal to? Lucifer Morningstar survived a explosion that could have whiped out a multiverse and he wasnt even scrathed. The LT cant even defeat the time twisters who can use time against there enemies. There power over time is so great that not even the LT can judge them cause they exist at the end of the time line when the multiverse will be destroyed and a new one will come to be they were made to educate the new multiverse of the mistakes of the old one to prevent the same fate they were created by HE WHO REMAINS. They almost distroyed all the time streams before HE WHO REMAINS stoped them from ever even being born. The LT doesnt even have controll over the time keeprers who are like the time twisters except basically there just time janitors and dont have the same power.

Umm, you obviously don't understand the logic of my point. Michael and Lucifer may have existed before life (creation), but they were still created by The Higher Power. The fact that the Tribunal came after them is irrelevent. The Tribunal was created with the sole purpose of having domain over all things below The Creator itself, it's that simple. It's not even a hard concept to comprehend.

Just because the key was created after the door doesn't change the fact that the key is the only means of opening the door.

As for the Time Twister's storyline, it makes no logical sense. Anything The One Above All brought into existence the Living Tribunal has domain over except for the Creator himself.

It's not logical, even for a comic book. They're going against their own premise.

Oh, and "He Who Remains" and "The One Above All" are one and the same. He's the only true constant.

His name is Stan Lee...

Well there you go now you know why the time twisters are more powerful then LT cause TOAA wanted them to be since you say HE WHO REMAINS is one in the same. You also proved another point HE WHO REMAINS exists in two time lines there are TWO time lines in marvel universe and i remeber him stopping the time twisters in one but not the other. And what does TOAA have to do with Micheal and Lucifer Morningstar he didnt make them, the creation from DC made them TOAA and The Creator from DC arent even on the same page and are totally diffrent entities.

God is God and Supreme Being is Supreme Being, regardless of whether it's DC or Marvel.

If Lucifer and Michael get to keep the purpose of their creations, so does the Tribunal, and his purpose is to keep all levels of existence in order, and Lucifer and Michael would happen to fall under that.

If the Time Twisters purpose from the Creator is solely to end the Universe chronology, then it would make sense that LT wouldn't have jurisdiction to stop them (not power, but jurisdiction) because they are simply fulfilling their purpose.

Living Tribunal can do anything within the bounds of his purpose.

Look dude this isnt the real world this is comic books i dont remeber reading anywere in the bible about time twisters or eternity or galactus or a living tribunal. TOAA is not the same as the DC Creator and if you dont understand that you need to stop posting about it and let people who have read the comics and understand what this thread is for use it.

And i told you already THE LIVING TRIBUNAL AND MICHEAL AND LUCIFER MORNINGSTAR COME FROM DIFFRENT COMPANIES IT DOESNT MATTER WHO TOAA IS THE DC gOD IS THE gOD OF MICHEAL AND LUCIFER MORNINGSTAR THEY DONT FALL UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE LIVING TRIBUNAL OR TOAA. Geez

Ok, so tell me the difference between a Supreme Being in Marvel and a Supreme Being in DC. How much more Supreme and omnipotent can you get? Please bless me with your knowledge on how a Supreme being is higher than a Supreme Being. Is it the ink DC uses?



Dude, there's no reason to even come at me like that. I read and enjoy my comic books just as you do. I'm simply articulating a valid point. My point is very logical. Given the premise each of these characters comes from, Tribunal is still the most powerful. Unless your saying that Omnipotent in DC has a different meaning than Omnipotent in Marvel.

How many degrees of the "Supreme, Most Powerful Being Period" can their be?

That's like saying something is more invincible than an invincible object or that you might have infinity, but I have infinity... plus 1. It doesn't work that way.

TOAA is simply put the Supreme Being, period.

That's why he's "above all".

And, the only person above Tribunal is The One above all.

You do the math.



It's funny, you coming at me on some cocky bullshit and bringing up the Bible when I just stated a point of logic. Really think about what I'm saying and you'll see not only that I'm right, but there's no need to get all defensive/offensive.

Chill homie.

illadelph12 is very wise listen to what he says i see his point , LT will win just cause he is in charge of all there is.

you people are retarded there is no single supreme being over all comics and if you think there is, you need to check into the mental hospital and you two really need to do that. You both dont even know what the hell your talking about. And yeah there is a diffrence between the supreme being of DC and marvel. Marvel DC is ruler of ONE multiverse not all multiverses DC and Marvel are two seprete universe how can TOAA have jurisdiction over The Creator? How can there be more then two supreme beings, hmmm ITS TWO DIFFRENT COMIC BOOKS, AND TWO DIFFRENT COMPANIES and by the way you might want to think about that mental hospital thing i mean i dont know were you saw the LT in real life were you heard him say he was number one in like the entire comic arena, witch is pretty stupid of you to say, DC has entities that are more powerful then the LT and not even just one Micheal and Lucifer Morningstar are one of them then there are others like the presance, the voice, the dark beast, the anti-life entity, the spectre, parallax, superman prime. LT might be the most powerful person in marvel but he doesnt come close in DC.

And were did you read about HE WHO REMAINS being TOAA cause you need proof not bull, witch is what your handing us, TOAA and The Creator (from DC) are not the same people two diffrent writers made them you said something about stan lee, ummm Stan Lee also didnt create the Angels oh and he doesnt work for DC. Im comming off with cocky bullshit? DC doesnt have a TOAA. And yes it does work that way there can be more then one omnipatent beings in there own realities. And if being the highest in one reality means not being omnipatent then there is no omnipatent entities in any comic. Chthon is a marvel character but he has his own universe The Beyonder had a universe that was apart from TOAA so what the hell are you talking about?

lol

Wow.

You're missing the whole point based on anger and bias Mider.

Typical.

It doesn't matter how many supreme beings there are, or whether it is Marvel, DC, Darkhorse, Image, etc., there's only one level of "supreme". There are no degrees of "supreme".

You can't get higher than highest.

Do you understand that logic?

There is only one level of invincible.

Infinite is Infinite, you can get no greater.

Supreme is supreme, you can get no greater.

Omnipotent is Omnipotent, you can get no greater.

You can not get greater than supreme.

With that being said, the premise of the Living Tribunal is that the only being in all conceivable conceptuality greater than him is The One Above All, the "Supreme Being".

Only TOAA is greater than Tribunal.

Last time I checked, even in DC, Lucifer and Micheal weren't "Above All". They are "Above Many", I'll give you that, but they aren't the supreme level of anything, and therefore aren't above Tribunal. All they are are high level archangels. They aren't "top dogs". Only the "top dog" is greater than Tribunal Mider.

What part of that is hard to understand?

As for Beyonder, the source of his power is the source of all power, just as is Michael's and Lucifer's. I'll let you guess at what and who that is (it should be obvious). The ability to create and destroy a pocket or alternate reality is insignificant compared to the power to create or destroy all and everything anywhere. That is the power of the "Supreme Being".

The Stan Lee thing was a joke, how you couldn't get that is beyond me, but considering your posted little tantrums in here, I can ascertain why.

Now, I think you owe me and kgkg an apology. The fact that you can't grasp a concept as simple as the only thing being more powerful than Tribunal being the Supreme Being period is your shortcoming. It doesn't make either of us 'retarded'.

Maybe you should take a moment to let this concept absorb into your deductive reasoning process.

I know how hard it is for prideful people to accept when someone else is right and they are wrong.

I think more people would join in this discussion if half the posts weren't one solid block of rambling.

Anyway, I don't know much about any of these omnipotent characters or see how there's a difference in their omnipotence so I'll use my normal tie breaker technique.

DC is smelly and stupid. I vote Beyonder and Tribunal.

You odviously are to one dimensional to understand what your even posting about. Im not even kidding anymore when i say you need to be put in a mental ward you really do cause DC has its own living tribunal he is called the Spectre. You really need help im not even making fun anymore i dont know how anyone cannot understand the point of diffrent companies making diffrent storylines and thus being able to make up diffrent version of supreme beings i mean the world is full of this if it wasnt there wouldnt be diffrent religions. Your going against all logic of the world and insulting the minds of billions of people if you were to say YOUR version of an omnipatent entity was correct. The point is simple there is no LT and beyonder in DC so there is no possible way for the LT to have jurisdiction over angels since angels in DC are even higher then the LT, its not anymore simple then that i dont understand why you dont understand that its redicoulous. There is a celestial called the one above all does that mean he is the highest in the universe NO i know cause he has been defeated by thanos one on one when thanos had the IG TOAA is only ruler of what he created witch was one single multiverse other then that he has no jurisdiction, your going against your own point saying that the beyonder is beyond the multiverse and beyond time and space if TOAA created these concepts then why is the beyonder beyond them. Its you who doesnt make sense. TOAA is supposed to be invinbible in marvel thats it! The Creator is supposed to be invinbile in DC its that freaking simple if they go out of there jurisdictions then they have a change of being defeated by someone more powerful since if they were truly invincible they would have created everything INCLUDING the beyonder and entities like that. Now your going to say that The Creator from DC and TOAA are the same or that TOAA created both LT and Micheal and Lucifer Morningstar, and you know what it doesnt matter all this dribble your making the angels have power beyond LT's cause LT is bound by time at the least witch Micheal and Lucifer Morningstar are not even bound by realitiy why is this argument still going? The beyonder has a clear power level its 300 times that of one multiverse but the angels can make there own multiverses working together so how can the beyonder stand up to that?

lol

I'm one dimensional??

Dog, you still don't get it.

Let me write it out in crayon for you:

It doesn't matter if it's Marvel's God or DC's God, Supreme is Supreme.

There are no degrees or levels of Supreme.

If you are Above All, you are Supreme.

You are not "The One Above Many" or "The One Above Most" or "The One Above Everyone Except Chad, Darius, and Martin on Tuesday's after 3pm"

You are "Above All".

If the only one above you is "The One Above All", you only have One Superior.

That simple.

No one else is Above you, they could only be your equal or lower. That is the Living Tribunal's premise.

If Tribunal, as is, were in DC, the only one above him would be the Supreme Being. He wouldn't all of a sudden become Clayface.

Michael and Lucifer are not Supreme Beings. They are high level archangels. They aren't even top 3 in their own realm.

"I survive explosion and all I got is this damn T-Shirt".

Shit, Galactus survived the end of a previous exixtence.

Let some people tell it, the Hulk would survive it too. It would just piss him off.

I'm not drinking the Kool Aid.

Spectre is the "Wrath of God", that's his purpose.

Tribunal is the judge, jury, caretaker, parole officer, and if necessary, executioner, of anything below God, that's his purpose.

Is that hard to comprehend?

I know Lucifer is "cool" and has a top selling graphic novel and all, but when it comes down to it, he's just the Devil with his own series.

Do the logic man, it's very simple.

Dude your taking peoples creations and molding them to your perspective you cant just do that, and if you think thats logical your full of crap. And if you do think you can just do that well why are you arguing with me? Im doing the exact same thing im taking your stupid ass thread and molding it to what i think it is in my perspective, and in my perspective your to stupid to know the diffrent between one person work and anothers. Im gonna ask that you get shut down cause you really dont know what the hell your talking about anymore your so redicoulous its unreal, you make no real point. TOAA is supreme in marvel and the creator is supreme in DC thats all there is to it and if other comics want to make a teddy bear with magic butt hairs the most powerful character for them then they can make him supreme too.

Mider, why in the hell did you report illadelph12's post? Please don't waste moderator's time like that. As long as he's not blatantly bashing you or anything like that, he can pretty much say what he wants without getting too far off topic. It's his opinion.

I wonder how many people are gonna diss Mider for reporting now.

Although it was a shitty reason to report, is it right to plaster the fact that he reported, over the thread?

I'm unaware of mod rules, it's a genuine question.

-AC

lol

Mider, you reported me to the Moderator because my argument is logical?

Come on now homie. Wow.

The irony: you come in here, insult me and kgkg because you can't comprehend what I'm saying; make posts in all caps to express your anger because you can't logically dispute my point, calling me retarded and saying that I need to be psycologically evaluated, and then you report me to a moderator because your so disturbed by my posts?

Thanks. I needed a good laugh before I watched the Super Bowl.

I'm done with this thread and my argument with you. It's obvious this is getting way to personal for you if you would stoop so low as to attempt to get me banned simply because you can't counter my deductions.

I didn't insult you.

I didn't use any racial slurs or derogatory terms towards you or any of your family members.

I didn't threaten your life.

I didn't attempt to do anything malicious to your computer like send you a virus or the like.

All I did was pose an argument you couldn't logically dispute, and you want me banned.

You really need to think about that man.

Naw, I probably shouldn't have, I was in a "what the hell" moment when I did. Although it was still ridiculous that he did though.

Although, I could delete the posts on this and never mention it again.

The Supreme Being in DC is scared of Jesse Custer, how powerful could he be?

And he gets killed by a clint Eastwood rip-off

Originally posted by supremthor
Many are going to say Original Beyonder & Living Tribunal win hands down but when its all said and don Lucifer Morningstar & Archangels Michael win..

True Living Tribunal

Originally posted by KillAll
original beyonder is the same beyonder after the retcon.


he isnt that powerful, and he never was that powerful. he would be a non factor.


Wow, you are on crack and a half aren't u ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Wow, you are on crack and a half aren't u ?
He's completely right.

Originally posted by Mider
you people are retarded there is no single supreme being over all comics and if you think there is, you need to check into the mental hospital and you two really need to do that. You both dont even know what the hell your talking about. And yeah there is a diffrence between the supreme being of DC and marvel. Marvel DC is ruler of ONE multiverse not all multiverses DC and Marvel are two seprete universe how can TOAA have jurisdiction over The Creator? How can there be more then two supreme beings, hmmm ITS TWO DIFFRENT COMIC BOOKS, AND TWO DIFFRENT COMPANIES and by the way you might want to think about that mental hospital thing i mean i dont know were you saw the LT in real life were you heard him say he was number one in like the entire comic arena, witch is pretty stupid of you to say, DC has entities that are more powerful then the LT and not even just one Micheal and Lucifer Morningstar are one of them then there are others like the presance, the voice, the dark beast, the anti-life entity, the spectre, parallax, superman prime. LT might be the most powerful person in marvel but he doesnt come close in DC.



Mider you are very incorrect.....Marvel is an Omniverse, not just a multiverse...

TOAA rules over numerous multiverses and the Living Tribunal is his second in power....

Roma rules over the mainsteam Multiverse that consists of 616, and there are others like her...

Where have you been during Mr. Master's threads ????

Originally posted by King Kandy
He's completely right.






Lucifer and Micheal have done nothing that puts them on par with Classic Beyonder