Wachowskis = Thieves?

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I posted this in another thread, but was curious if anyone else ever read this? Pretty damning evidence, if you ask me. May even change the way you feel about the franchise.

Don't really care,
I like the matrix, DOn't care who wrote it,
If Steward wrote it, then she should get money, simple as that,
But if she's jsut trying to get money off its sucess, she should rot in hell..

Silver Stardust
The Wachowski's took a LOT of their inspiration for the Matrix from Ghost in the Shell.

Frankly, this won't make me like the Matrix any less, it'll still remain among my top favorite movies.

Oh, her case is pretty legit. There was just always something suspicious about those two, having scene pictures of them. They look like a couple of Chicago Bears fans, circa 1989.

Doesn't really bother me, either. Sad that they abused the ladies material like that, but I doubt she would have presented it the way they did, which is what hooked me.

The word "Thieves" maybe a little harsh there Cinema. There is a thread regarding Ms. Stewart claims.


As many of you know I'm a huge QT fan and I know how it feels when someone accuses them of plagarism. But until all the facts have been gather and a court of law has a rule decision......nothing can be certain. Documents can be falsified and normally this only happens when something makes lots of money. In this case the Matrix is the target. Hopefully everything can be resolved before things do get out of hand.

The fact She is also suing for "the Terminator" raises some questions about her cedibility as well.

She won over a billion dollars. Does that not say something?

The information I have is that she hasn't won a thing yet- all that has happened is that the case is going ahead. That article is inaccurate (hardly bloody surprising when the only site reporting it is a University student rag).

So until anything is proven, it is early to judge.

Well, you can see the case for both Terminator and the Matrix. Is basically the same premise. Machines take over the world. Humanity is oppress by the machines etc...etc..

But THAT premise existed in sci-fi long before any of her work as well, so that doesn't exactly track.

I'm guessing that whoever heard her case assumed that her literary work served as the frame for the movies. Has anyone actually read into the book, being able to pull direct correlations with characters?

No, though from what I hear it has a lot of the same self-questioning ethos as The Matrix, though from a Biblical point of view. I really can't get the Terminator link.

Terminator backstory - Machines over run humanity and take over the world.

Matrix backstory- Machines over run humanity and take over the world.

Obviously there is a similarity in these backstories, but it's pretty well known that most everything in the matrix was done already before, all the film did was combine numerous aspects of other films with some shallow philisophical references thrown into the mix (references that arent' all that uniqe themselves, pretty much the same notions that have been hidden in numerous other films for decades. The Matrix just made them more obvious then other films have.)

Plus the idea of machiens taking over the world was around before the Terminator, so that's kinda moot.

First of all, I'm not saying she is right or not but there are three things I wanna say about that story:

1) She says is not about the money...but she wants to receive tons of money...

2) Terminator came out in 1984, then she only filed the lawsuit after the original Matrix came out in 1999... (very strange..)

3) U Know what? I really don't care...! The Matrix was one of the most visionary and mind blowing trilogies..nothing will change that.


In this day and age, you can connect anything with something else. The Matrix also has similarities to Ghost in the Shell and Lain.

Has anyone read this story? I'd like to know really how much this relates to The Matrix and The Terminator.

Whatever, I enjoyed the movies and that's all that matters.

No she hasn't! Like I said, this was incorrect info. No payment has been made, she has not won anything.

And BF... kinda what myself and WD said already, that! The Terminator link cannot be built on that principle. Meanwhile, I still find your analysis of the Matrix the most incorrect thing I have ever seen you do here...

Ushgarak you cannot deny the similarities between the two films. The Matrix has Neo and the Terminator has John Connor. What's the similarities? Both are the chosen ones to stop the machines from total domination. Both are frequently hunted by machines that want to kill them. If they die then humanity is doom. Heck, even the villains have similar features. Look at Agent Smith and the T-1000 they both have the same objective....to destroy the one being that is threating their power. Both Agent Smith and the T-1000 are stiffed wooden characters with no expressions. My point is that I don't want to sound like the Matrix rip-off stuff from the terminator......but there is defenetly certain mirror images in both storylines.

Gah... I wasn't doubting the similarities between the two films! Why would you think that?

I am doubting that that is the grounds for her action, because the grounds on which her book seems to have inspired the Matrix are on the philosophical grounds which do not exist in the Terminator, and as I said before, simply the fact that both plots involve futures where robots control the Earth is not grounds for plagiarism!

So as of yet, I cannot see where her case fits with the Terminator. Her work does not appear to be similar from all I have seen of it.

And doubly so because that issue has already been settled as to respect to one Harlan Ellison, so unless she can prove her work pre-dates his- which she cannot- she has no case.

So basically the Terminator part of the suit is frivilous; the Matrix part is unresolved and may well be nonsense or not be; we shall see.

Currently she doesn't even have a case submitted ready to go as her original was rejected. If she corrects her errors and submits again, we can expect to see this become a major legal battle.

Anyone claiming victory for her, though, has spoken way too soon.

Silver Stardust
This thing is silly...

For one thing, the whole 'man vs. machines' thing is nothing new...neither the Matrix nor Terminator invented that idea. And someone mentioned similarities with Ghost in the Shell and Lain...well, a lot of the inspiration for the Matrix DID come from GITS, and anyone who has seen both movies will see this to be very obvious. I don't know about the Serial Experiments Lain similarities though as I haven't seen Lain.

And basically anything else I wanted to say TOH already covered.

After reading all of this, I remember hearing a rumor about this maybe a year ago, thought it was some quack trying to get money. But if there's evidence of this, then well... let the courts decide. The Matrix is one of my favorite movies, and I never "worshipped the Wachowskis" or felt the need to remain loyal. The movie is great, and nothing really can change that.

However, if she says that the Wachowskis did Reloaded and Revolutions by themselves, perhaps that would shed more light upon why the sequels weren't as popular. stick out tongue

Good point, lol. yes

But tell me, of all the books and references out there that have some of the same principles that the Matrix is based on and one that is even shown in the movie (Simulacra and Simulation), why would the Wachowski bros. choose this women's story that is a piece of crap compared to the other books that cover the same topics? This women is a complete nut job, I'm sorry. Some of you probably haven't read some of her statements telling other blacks to join her in her fight against whites in the entertainment business and says that that is the whole reason behind this. And I suggest you read her story once, and you will see how bad it is and how it doesn't come close to having the same story of the Matrix or Terminator.

She directly submitted the idea for the film to them in the early 80's. If they cared to make a film about it before then, they probably would have. But, it seems as if they aren't as ingenuitive as we once were led to believe.

If she's saying "blacks against whites", isn't THAT a little bit racist?

I think it should be noted that in her story there is absolutely nothing like The Matrix in it- the object, as opposed to the theme title. As in no virtual world, or anything like that.

Apparently she thought that part was silly. Mind you, I read that from a site, could just be rumour that she made that comment, because frankly there is a lot of nonsense floating around out there about this, from that first erroneous article onwards.

no, not if it's for equality

But that was never the case because it was widely known that they gained a lot of their ideas from material that had been around for hundreds of years, it's just the way they combined it all into one setting that made it so great.

One of her press releases: http://www.daghettotymz.com/matrix/ltrfromsophia.html

This is coming from her official site, and you tell me if you don't have some doubts about her after looking at her site. I mean she's charging money for CD's to hear her talking!!!! Please, can somebody shut this woman the hell up already.

Sounds like a bitter ex-Black Panther, lol. The thing is, she's apparently in line to win her case, if she hasn't already done so, that said, us being outsiders to the legal proceedings, know absolutely nothing as to what ultimately made the judges decision

So, our speculation is strcitly that, not to mention mostly biased, and unfairly prejudiced.

Yes, on the legal stuff it is speculation, but when you read the crap that are in those statements made directly by her, there is no speculation about it.

No, she has not already done so. The case has not even started, and no judgment based on anything she has been presented has yet been made, so there is no such judges decision.

Nor do I see any indications that she is in line to win; where did you get that from, CA?

o well people it happened that way and there is no way in changing it, I don't think there are rights or wrongs in this media excitement so.. they based their film on her story, they didn't do it exactly the same. And their point was to tell people that there is something else than just believing in god etc. her point was to get people to have faith in god again from what I read.


From slccglobelink.com (Source of Martha Carters article)


Good find TOH, when is that dated?

"Mother of the Matrix" Victorious Published: Thursday, October 28, 2004

Correction Regarding 'Matrix' Story Published: Thursday, October 28, 2004


Silver Stardust
Looks like even the people writing the story didn't get the facts straight at first....

(and TOH I love that sig)

if this lady is suing over the terminator and the matrix. she is just insane. the wachowski brothers have always been open to reveal that many different japanese anime's inspired the matrix. I am sure this lady just wrote a story similar to the matrix and is pissed off that she never had her stuff publised before the brothers made it into a billion dollar franchise. The fact of the terminator is ridiculous. James cameron dremt about the machine when he was borke and living in his car. Creative minds think alike. this chik is just crazy and delusional.

Id be pretty damned happy if one of my ideas became a movie franchise with an online game and everything even if credit wasnt given to me.

I already TOLD you guys that the original article was inaccurate. That correction is to be found everywhere.

So it might have been nice if people had read that...

So I repeat, there are no indications anywhere that she is in line to win, or even that her case is credible. There was a legal argument that the RICO element of her case was inadmissable, but that has not transpired; that is ALL that has happened, that her case has not been derailed on a technicality.

Some more fact checking would benefit you, CA.

I guess I'll actually post one of the sites I have been sourcing from... from The Hot Blog:

"December 07, 2004
More on Terminator/Matrix v Sophia Stewart
On October 28, a student newspaper at Salt Lake Community College printed an erroneous story on Sophia Stewart's RICO lawsuit against The Wachowskis, Jim Cameron, Gale Anne Hurd, Fox and Warner Bros and others.

Poorly reported by one Martha Carter, the story says that "Monday, October 4th 2004 ended a six-year dispute" and that Ms. Stewart has " will recover damages" and that "she will soon receive one of the biggest payoffs in the history of Hollywood, as the gross receipts of both films and their sequels total over 2.5 billion dollars."

None of that is true. What is true is that on September 27, 2004, US District Court Judge Margaret M. Morrow made a preliminary ruling that the RICO element of the suit would not be thrown out on purely legal grounds, though some of the charges were dropped against Warner Bros. and 20th Century Fox. There was no finding of fact emerging from this hearing and not even the glimmer of a trial that would find guilt or innocence.

The story ran on the community college website, was picked up by Manhunt.com, which bills itself as "The digital resource for blazin' urban news." Eventually their story was passed to and published by Ain't It Cool News. By the time I was alerted to the posting and went to AICN, the link was gone. Presumably, someone explained just how inaccurate the story was and AICN did the responsible thing at that point."

Please feel free to look at the ruling:


You will noe that seven of her claims were dismissed outright, unless she re-submits them, just as I mentioned earlier.

good work Ush but.. who does really cares? everybody still likes the matrix movies anyways roll eyes (sarcastic)

Theres a twilight zone episode exactly like the matrix.

yay tell us where to find it eek!

hmm this is interesting but i find it hard to believe that james cameron would copy the story from some1 and make a movie out of it. james cameron was a genious, and he told how he made the story of terminator in the special edtion dvd. and it was convincing.

and the timeline is also a question. she wrote the book in 1981 and then gave it to I DONT KNOW WHO in mid 1983. james cameron had almost certainly started production of THE TERMINATOR by then because the movie got released in early 1984. so there's her lie caught i guess

"I am ashamed of my own people's belief system. They used to have faith and they used to believe in God, but now they have become like the same fat ass arrogant White counterpart who only believe in the all might dollar! "

This is the women who's claming to be all amazing!?

what the hell is that?

she can lick my balls as far as im concerned

You know this chick was lying. She just wanted her fifteen minutes of fame, and wanted some money.

i am worried that she did get the money. i certainly hope that didnt happen

I don't think she got any money at all.

I dunno if this got reported elsewhere, but this case got dismissed in June, after no evidence was offered.

Happy Dance

I mean if she had actual evidence that the Wachowskis stole the matrix, i might take into consideration her claim that she wrote, but you know she was lying when she sued James Caremon also.

The case is old news its been around for some time now. The fact that she finally got WB in court is amazing to me. I hope she gets nothing from tihs. Stupid old woman just wanted some camera time. And btw i would like to see that Twilight Episode about the matrix, Links please.
I agree with others, no matter who wrote or directed or acted in the matrix movies i will still be interested in the story and will be my all time favorite movie trilogy.

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