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You have pressed many keys to make many letters to make many words to make many sentences to make many posts, but let me break it down for the Zen-proles amoungst us...

God? No. Me? Yes. You? Probably not.

What you mean by "You? Probably not."?

My concept of 'you' is neglible as 'you' are intangible.

Now it makes sense - I share your opinion. Just a pitty that you are, by implication of your above argument, non-existent and vice versa.

When talking about philosophy, surely you should use hypothetical situations. You shouldn't point out a crazy guy and say, "This human is crazy, and therefore all humans are crazy". You shouldn't say "he says that the world revolves around pie, and therefore all humanity is stupid for saying that."

First, the Adam and Eve thing. I might say, humans choose to live a life outside God's direct protection, when they used God's power to lie to God. That's freewill. Mind matter, what God claims we are in true form, doesn't always go left if you push it on the right. Only matter does that. God cursed Adam to live with pain and pleasure. This was because Adam choose it (by eating the fruit, and using his freewill to twist it to evil). God's just, so he would never do something against a person's will.
My view differs from that of him. I think that we chose to have God remove us from a position of ease, of our own free will.

Only till we came. We can change the preset course of events.

Your daughter clung to you because you were a being who had done her kindness, and who was willing to go to great lengths to please her (i.e. to remove the scary thing or to make it not scary). You feed her id (Freud stuff) and so she responded. When humanity advanced, they put out Gods to govern the world, so that they could live longer. This is the Ego God (you forget to donate, you get thunder bolted).

What you're saying is that some people made a superegoistic God. People don't do this. They might make a Super god that can deal out divine justice, but they always throw in a God of mischief to counter it. People don't like worshiping invisible powerless forces, which might hell them if they don't obey the law. Look at Sikhs; you get as many tries as you want to connect with God (Waheguru). Your daughter wouldn't imagine an invisible friend who told her that if she didn't obey all her rules, she would be locked up in a dungeon.

That's one view. It's wrong of course. For a start, you cannot have endless time; infinity is impossible as then you cannot ever reach the present (Have you read "The Phantom Tolboune"? Imagine an infinite stairway, each step being an event. You can never reach the top.) Also, your daughter looks up to you as the exalted father figure, and you find that perfectly acceptable. Don't put what could be reality as foolish if it isn't. Your daughter would be a fool to imagine that daddy would talk to those boys who called her names, parents, according to you, whilst in truth it's only maybe. It's very likely that she's right as well.

In part three you get obscenely rude. Your daughter doesn't want to face a world without guidance, so when she asks you if it's right to ignore happy laughie bulling by popular kids, you can equip her with your superior wisdom. It's not weakness to ask for help. An stupid person would be one who doesn't know what to do. I need a person to help me. I need my French teacher to explain the imperfect tense, my friends to make me laugh. A soldier has weapon specialists, communication specialists, tactic specialists, and much on every step to help them. Only a fool takes on the world alone.

You are really annoying me. We work best together, we think best together, we live best together.

Now were to begin on this very long passage.......ill respond to the god one, ok..... now you say that human beings are just expirenceing as harsh, but that is not the truth peopel put in the minds what they want to belive so if that is what they choose then that is what they will get, also about god creaating the universe out of nothing is surtainly true of what i have learned and that the reason he put us "human beings" cursed is that he gave us the choice od freewill and humans dicied to put him out of there lives and not respon to him and not belive in him , all becuase they chose to.He porbably did know how we were going to turn out but he had promised not to drawn the peopel of earth ever agin so he let us be and could not break his promise.Now i ask that question all the time if he created us or if we created him becuase people mind are influinced and diceved so easily that someone could have easily made that up, look at the Romans back during the Troy Centerys they belived in many gods that some fool made up, i belive we (human) crate gods that are supior to us because we have "HOPE" so we have somthing to look up too and ecnolage and worship so we are not alone in liife at our loneniess time of our misurable liitel live, i say missurable becuase this world has become so curapted and destroyed peopel do not know what to belive any more so they dont belive in anything, so when they die they dont die in peace. ( please excuse my spelling ) but im done for right now becuase im tired....

I'll admit when I say this is a subject I have not given a considerable ammount of thought to. Mostly because I don't rightly care. Somewhere in me I believe in a God, simply because the existence and miracle of life is something inconcievable to me. I understand that God must ahve his own creator, but that is something I doubt anyone will understand.

God exists to the extent that an individual needs Him. I myself have no need for God. I find that whether or not I believe in him, my life will go on with no change. Some people need the influence of the church and other religions to find solace in life. To them, God is very real. This isn't so much of a topic about whether or not anything exists but in a persons mind. Its more of a topic that should be left alone in my opinion. Some people need God in their lives, don't ask me why. If he were to not exist, a lot of peopel would be crushed. To you, Philo, he does not exist, because you don't need him. To me, he exists almost as a matter of explanation, but I havent bothered examining the issue further because as I stated before, it makes no difference to me whether he exists or not.

If this damns me to hell, so be it. I doubt it would though. Just because someone doesnt believe in a set religion, or in God in general does not make them amoral, or bad people. In fact, one of the reasons that I am vehemently against organized religions is their all or nothing approach. How is it that God could make so many religions possible, and have so many people choose these varieties, and then damn them to hell because the correct religion was some tribal function off the coast of western africa.

I realise my thoughts on this subject jump around a great deal. I appolagize. But really, the question of God isnt whether he exists, it is whether you need him or not. A friend of mine who was depressed recently found God and is now a lot happier. I, have not found God. Oh well, no biggie there. He can keep himself hidden or show himself to me, I'm not going to take the hours out of my life to find him or prove him. Why should I, its not necessary.

So if a person finds happiness in a belief in 'god', then people should commend it even if it eventually proves to be totally incorrect? Strange...

I agree to an extent. I agree there is no God but I don't know about the universe having no beginning. That's always something I've struggled to understand.. either the Universe was started in some big bang out of no where and any time before that event there was no time or space and everything was compressed into a moment of "singularity," or the universe has just always been here. Neither one really makes sense to me.. I mean how can time be never ending?

If the universe is infinite, then time is infinite.

YTaker: "When talking about philosophy, surely you should use hypothetical situations. You shouldn't point out a crazy guy and say, "This human is crazy, and therefore all humans are crazy". You shouldn't say "he says that the world revolves around pie, and therefore all humanity is stupid for saying that."

First, the Adam and Eve thing. I might say, humans choose to live a life outside God's direct protection, when they used God's power to lie to God. That's freewill."

I never took a specific trait of one human being and then extend it in a generalising approach onto the whole of mankind.

Freewill? If God really gives us freewill, then he must give iot to us unconditionally, in other words, if we choose not to believe in him or to act evil, we are exercising freewill and then God is not allowed to send us to hell, for that would be a violation of our freewill and also the opposite of unconditional love, as it is an act of hate.

Infinity? Existence must be infinite - how can it be finite, then there must be something beyond that finite edge, by logical implication. Being cannot simply stop somewhere with an edge rounding of its finite form and then there's just nothing beyond that. Existence is infinite Being. Scientists believing in the general theory of relativity always try to say that the space and time was started by the big bang, but what do they suppose was before that? Space-time is not the whole of Existence, but only a part of it, if it did indeed start with a big bang. Quantum theory suggests that space-time is infinite - no beginning, middle or end. It is a mind bender to grasp this concept, but infinity is still the most 'logical' answer.

LOL
The classic "god gave you a freewill" phrase that every Christian repeats. If you did not have freedom with your "will", you would not even have a "will" at all.

I wrote this
"Make it appear "good", and people will want to try it. Only by trying it will you "personally" know if it is "good" or "bad" for you. With your choice you will receive consquences and you will "personally" know the truth and whos telling it. It is possible to know something beforehand, but you will never really know for sure if what you know is true. People must ultimatly decide to make those choices. By restraining others from making a choice, you may actually cause them to desire to try that choice."

One goal of Christianity and Catholicism is to restrain the will of the people. (this statement is bias because I have knowledge of entities who may have created these religions, I also refer to these entities as Demons/Angels/Aliens)

Philosophicus, I've been through some of the the same thoughts you have written here. I'm not sure how far you have come, but keep going. People like us are getting really close to the truth.

we got arguments against the existence of god in other threads, based on physical theories...
in this case i mean mainly the quarks theory...
its been said that the singularity of sub-atomically gravitation would prove the big bang and so the evolution (what would be in contradiction to the bible), and that its proven by the existence of quarks... we discussed that already and it just resulted to be not correct, cause the the singularity cant be adopted to physics and sub-atomically physics here...
now ive read a sience report in school which said either the theory of quarks or the theory of relativity has to be wrong because they cant be both right cause theyre contradicting each other...
while thinking about which theory i'd prefer i thought about what the big bang is supposed to have been...
an energy conversion from an in one point compressed mass into a young universe...... the creation of matter and anti-matter!?!
....
i think the quarks theory cant help in any way in finding out if there is a god or not...
if quarks will be proven wrong in future i dont see any effect on any religion with it.
i guess many people think, if it will be proven right, it was another step to disprove gods existence...
but if they exist i dont see any problem either.
- if god is almighty he could acutally create the world in 7 days... the word almighty includes that
thats possible because of quarks and matter and anti-matter. what would an almighty being detain to create the universe of matter and anti-matter exactly in the way the universe should work and works today? why should an almighty being make it just more complicated with putting a big bang and the evolution before its intent? you cant say its less elaborate to create it with a big bang and an evolution of everything. just imagine how many things that almighty being had to think through additionally to go sure that it all happens the way its supposed to...?
just was an idea i had, so... post your opinion

No, you tried to disprove God with an example of some guy you met in a pub. Others may disagree with that philosophy.

It's my freewill whether to ignore the law. Regardless of my freewill, and the fact that I love it, there's also justice. God, in reality, has his love enslaved to his sense of justice. If you choose to attempt murder, you can be stopped. If you choose to not believe in God, you go to hell. It's not hate, it's justice for sinning. We also have a conscience, and that must be used to moderate our free will.

No there doesn't. Space/time is curved at the edges, according to most, and isn't infinite. There's nothing. The laws of space/time are not active outside the universe. This means that instead of a sideways eight symbol, you'd put a 0 symbol to represent that. The only thing that's hard to grasp is outside the edge, where there are no dimensions. Onto some infinity stuff

1. I have infinity apples. I give you infinity.
2. I have infinity apples. I give you all the odd numbers
3. I have infinity apples. I give you all the ones higher than ten.

1. Infinity-Infinity= Zero
2. Infinity-Infinity= Infinity
3. Infinity-infinity= Ten

This makes it impossible. Anyway, here are some websites suggesting a finite universe

http://finitenature.com/finiteuniverse/
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/part_4_section_6.html
http://www.bigbang.org/

I like the second two best. One's scientific, one's philosophical.

OK TIME TO LEARN THAT CATHOLIC'S ARE CHRISTIANS AND THERE IS NO NEED TO SEPARATE THE TWO

Do Catholics call themselves Christians? Every Catholic I've ever talked to never said they were one.

they call themselves catholic to say what branch of chrisitaity they belong to. Like they dont wanna be identified with the othere branches of christianity.
Chrisitans are simply proclaim a belief in jesus as christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of jesus.

i wanted to read it. but tis too long bag

Somewhat of a contradiction there, considering you said earlier god was impossible because he/it had either existed forever or had been created by some superior being. Basically you're describing existence in the same way many people describe god. Therefore, you're saying existence itself is impossible, which I doubt is a point you're trying to make.

Incidently, if you put God in an infinite universe, he doesn't exist. He can only exist for a finite amount of time. Before he set up dimensions, there was no time. So he existed forever, otherwise known as about 14 billion years.

you dont know my plans so just hush

Create doesnt mean to create something new out of nothing but in this instance it does. As is implied by evolution, non life arising from life, singularity coming into existance sans cause and creating the universe sans cause. I dont believe persay that man was supposed to be perfect though, man was good in spirit (untainted). That is what it means. It also states in the bible that everything was created good etc but once since entered into the world things changed.

That was one of the weakest and I do mean weakest, attempts at arguing for evolution. I can only hope that that was a joke on your part. Oh btw, what new species are appearing constantly?




How would plan etc be a problem for God? Of course God didnt need to be created, the implication is silly. As we know in our universe, the cause of law and effect exists. For something to come into existence, it needs a cause. God is eternal.

Again, this was another one of the weakest arguments ive ever heard for evolution.

click click all though you bring a strong arguments this isnt about evolution but you cant see there isnt evolution because thats saying you dont believe things can adapt but your clinging to religious cliches
its understandble that he has not said the absolute truth because there is no absolute truth but he has hit the tip of the iceberg you cant just say hes wrong though his theory is just as plausible as yours yes iam saying god is a theory until ive seen legitimate proof and not some bible bullshit i will bow down and kiss gods ass

that post i made above was of another because philo brings a strong argument and i wanted to pass it along to others and that was just an answer i got.

also iam god for i can create and destroy just as you are god.
people are ever changing the natural hieght a long time ago was 5 foot it is now to 5'9-6 foot so you cant say evolution cannot be for we are ever changing ever adapting

the other post i meant is way up at the top not my opinion of click click so read that to understand

Well, I didnt say that microevolution doesn't exist, we know it does. However, there is another type of evolution that is theorized by evolutionists. It is known as macroevolution. It is not based on evidence, it is merely conjecture that is being used in an attempt to oppose creationism.

Snakes to dogs, elephants to people and so on. We have seen species become extinct and so on but where is the legitimate (non fraudulent) proof that macroevolution took place? People are and have been fed excessive amounts of mendacities. Students are being taught stuff that we know is fraudulent.

Anyway, for me the whole evolution vs creationism debate becomes tiresome, it is unfruitful. I find it more practical (in the interest of having a fruitful discussion) to have a philosiphical debate on the existence of morals and so on.

understandable both opinions are plausible and those are just two think of all the theories that havent been brought to the mainstream

oh and thanks for not acting like an ass philo and finti go beserk when they dont like what they hear
oh and the new species deal he doesnt mean entire new species just new adaptations of said species

Brandino and Arena host - you two seem to be the only ones here who correctly understand what I attempted to convey. For the rest who posted here - please think clearly about what I've written and think again before you make incorrect assumptions.

Last note on infinity - Existence has to be infinite, to suggest it isn't is simply irrational, because if you postulate a finite existence then what do you suppose is beyond that finite entity? - there must be something beyond it and that translates into infinity.

thanks im just starting to think about philosophy and iam very yound tell me do i have potential

Dont pat yourself on the back too hard there, you have no clue what you are talking about. Existence is infinite? The existence of what?

The universe? We know thats not the case. Ive read many theories on this one, truth is though that they all amount to illogical conclusions save for one.

the existance of time and space my confused friend

What dimension exactly is it that you are talking about? What you call another dimension, I will call a metaphyiscal realm. Now, this realm we then understand is not limited by the laws of physics or nature. As in, it can be eternal, just as God is. God needs not cause, he is eternal.

Seriously man.....

click click do you believe that all things have a beggining

Space time as we know it, scientifically speaking, is limited to the existence of the universe. Which I already addressed when I stated, what the universe?

The problem is that he wasnt specific enough in just stating existence. In a literal sense saying that existence is eternal is not descriptive enough. What does that mean? Eternality is existence without end.

answer my other question do you believe all things have a beggining?

No, I do not. I believe that all things that come into existence require a cause.

dont contradict yourself your saying god has a cause but if he has a cause like philo says he fails to be god anymore

Is this a joke? To accuse me of contradicting myself is absolutely ridiculous.

God is eternal, he has no cause for his existence. The universe however came into existence.

im so tired its like 1 am

But by saying that you do say god has a cause because he created us for a cause did he not therefore he has made his cause for creation
but if god created us a cause then god must have a god but then gods god must to have a god for creating that god to create us. so yes you did contradict yourself by saying that god created us because that would have to be a cause to create us therefore he has a cause.

That is simply not a logical conclusion that you have made.

Just reflect on what I am saying a little more.

Anything that is eternal, has no cause for its existence.

Anything that comes into existence, has a cause.

God is eternal, nothing caused his existence.

The universe is finite, it had a cause for its existence.

how so have i failed if he created us regardless of enternal being or not that was a cause REGARDLESS therfore giving him a cause so i fail to see where i have screwed up

maybe im to tired to think straight but thats ok

Get some rest.

If hes a professeur of philosophy I feel very sorry for his students.

damnit every time your post i like hearing your words but going to that is low even for aperson brave enough to go to a philosophy forum and your right i need to go to bed
he is a prof for reason....
think about it your hanging onto religion were here to explore the other

clickclick - if you say God is eternal, then we might as well take God out of the picture and just say that the universe is eternal, without God- God is superfluous in the argument. Anyway, you should rather go to the religion forum - One cannot philosophise if one already came to a conclusion that God is the answer for everything - Why do you want to philosophise if God is your answer - there's nothing for you to philosophise about.

We know the universe isnt eternal though, its finite. Beyond the fact that the mere suggestion is troublesome to say the least.

You made a thread about God, about creationism and then object when I respond about it?

OK, if the universe is not eternal, then the universe does not make up the whole infinity of existence or Being as such. The universe then, is just a small part of Existence as such, but in the end the whole of Being must be eternal to make sense.

The universe being finite or infinite is still debated - do you ever read QUANTUM theory? The leading trend at the moment is that the universe is indeed infinite - Stephen Hawking said that. There really is no consensus yet concerning the finite/infinite condition of the universe.

Yes I am familiar with Quatum theory. I assume you are talking about the universe expanding and collapsing, is that correct? Or perhaps you are talking about something else and I have assumed wrong in this regard. Ive read a number of theories.

However if it is that of which you speak, I reject it on the basis of logic.

I wouldnt know that the "leading trend is that is that the universe is infinite". We know that universe is not infinite, its expanding. There is more evidence of course that the universe is finite.

In a physical sense, the physical universe, there was no existence pre singularity.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore - you clearly are not familiar with Quantum theory and you clearly do not understand what I'm saying. I said the following: "if the universe is not eternal, then the universe does not make up the whole infinity of existence or Being as such. The universe then, is just a small part of Existence as such, but in the end the whole of Being must be eternal to make sense." Can't you read?

I am familiar with quatum theory. I was refering to a proposed
explanation for the existence of the universe using quatum theory.
There have been different explanations used for the existence of the universe, using quatum theory.

What would be the point of stating, "the whole of infinity"?

I read what you wrote and it is silly to say the least.

If the universe was all of existence and it was not eternal, then there would be no infinity of existence. There would be no eternity, it would just be a concept.

You like to draw conclusions that arent there. Familiarize yourself with non sequiturs. You have done it so many times that it is quite pathetic. Worst of which, I have barely been reading your stuff and already I have noticed this.

Nothing worse than an arrogant person, one who cant see the error of their ways.

I read what you wrote just now and it is silly to say the least.

I take that as a compliment coming from you, a guy who obviously has no clue what he is saying. The fact that you claim to be a genius is laughable.

For a guy who thinks there are no facts only opinions/interpretations, I find it bizzare that you would ever even argue with someone.

You are clearly, self contradictory and incredibly wrong much of the time.

Although I agree with your first statement, the second paragraph I posted somewhat confused me.


If you have not been reading Philo's theory properly, how can you claim that he is wrong?

the third is just there to show you something important

unfortunately I have been reading his theories correctly.

He is going from one point to another and acting as if one point concludes the next when it does not, at least not for one point specifically which makes the whole thing breakdown.

your so close minded ive given up hope on you
i thought that you would atleast accept it but your close minded Very close minded no one needs talking to you for god is your anwser and nothing else you fail to see what he types you are indeed a neo corporate fascist otherwise known as the norm

Are you a real person or just a robot/computer?

I cant believe the stuff you say. For one, he started a thread questioning God's existence, he started this all not me. The case that he made seemed like it was written up by a 2 year old, so no I do not respect it. I do not respect stuff that is illogical and Philo has stated things that are illogical. In his attempt to be deep about stuff, he comes off silly and contradictory. That is no way to be.

Secondly, I havent even spoken about God in the last couple of posts.

You seem like his drone.

Explain miracles and strings of bad luck or love or why humans are so advanced as a species and other animals are not even close. usually tha second most advanced is relatively close in intelligence to tha most advanced...yet there is so much seperation from us to any other animal.

All of you taht oppose God are simply dancing to tha well played tunes by satan. he is of course a super genius, to try to outsmart some of your sense making theories is for a human to try to outsmart satan herself.

Why not make it simple? why reject a simple idea? just because its "played out"? just because rebellion is cool? stop trying to be deep and sound intellectual and try being right and wise. God is real and Satan is real, he has a job and you guys are swayed by his work.

Did you mis-read the title of this area of the forum? It says 'Philosophy Forum', not 'Self-Righteous Sunday School Garbage Forum'...Don't worry, everyone makes mistakes...I'm the New Jesus - the old one was far too unbelievable - and I forgive you...

Surely when one walks through this life and witnesses death.. most of us might think "there must be a destination for all of us".. I just personally think the scientific view discredits things too quickly .. its like "Ok, he died.. cells died..no more activity etc" but, what happens after they die?.. do they go to heaven/hell? are they being reincarnated? has their soul become dormant?.. I think its a shame that more questions arent directed at ourselves, because we seem to be infinitely complex in our methods of thinking and being (not to mention the versatility of our bodies)...there are many mysterious things to find/understand/percieve

The mere belief in a God is illogical you blind mind!

That is incorrect young one but no matter, go on as you are.

If you say God is Logical then his subjected to logic!

Heh, the only way an answer can come to this is after someone figures out what happens after death... and kudos on finding that out

You rot after death.

so you dont believe that there is some kind of spiritual embodiment driving our life processes? we 'are' the shell as opposed to the more common spirit/shell belief?

No.

and...

Ah, apologies. It's just that your post implied otherwise, and I like to play devil's advocate

what would you suppose instead of a god that created the universe?

erm, nature?

I made this statement according to the Bible ...

"If God didn't create nature, or God isn't nature itself, then God does not exist"....

so if god doesnt exist, who/what do you suppose to have made our universe?

read the post before the quote you made...

lol.. nature made our universe?.. then what is nature?

nature made our universe? nice.

nature also makes rain, flowers and so on...

wtf?

If the universe is infinite, then there are an infinite number of ways that certain chemicals, gases and particles could come together...one such way resulted in this place we call 'home'.

thats nice but the universe is not infinite, there is a finite amount of energy and matter, ever heard of entropy? Don't even get me started on the mere idea of an infinite universe.

The universe maybe finite, but the whole of existence - Being as such is infinite. What do you suppose is at the edge of the finite?

At last someone seems to be in the right direction on the topic of the non-existence of god.

Mmmhmm... hello again philosophicus..

originally posted by HarmoNiC FLo


Advanced meaning forward improving progress? So you are saying we have made better progress than animals? In what, all areas? If you are a christian you might believe our advancement is leading to our ultimate doom. Animals seem to get along quite well with nature. Why even ask someone to confirm your belief that humans are superior to animals when the word "advanced" seems to "explain" it already.
I also need to know if you are a christian who actually believes in "strings of bad luck".



Hmm funny, I actually think that you christians are dancing the well played tunes of the devil. If you are a christian, then you probably beleive that your god is protecting you from it. I think you give the devil too much credit. Here they are talking about the question of god, looking into something to find wisdom and knowledge about this subject. If your god exists, then why would he withold any knowledge from those who truly seek his existence? Where is your faith in your god? Are you using fear tactics to try and scare them into getting off of this subject? Doesn't your devil use fear to get people to do something? I think the devil speaks through your mind, wake up and realize what you just said to them. Your own bible says "seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened".



Rebellion huh? Trying to be deep, trying to sound intellectual?
How about they are deep and they are intellectual. I know I'm in open rebellion, but most of these people here are not. They have only been seeking the truth. How can you call that rebellion?
You make your own god sound like a tyrant:
"Obey me or I'll sic my devil on you. Oh, but I'm a god of love, you have freedom of choice."

You sound like a mind controlled slave. WAKE UP, and pay attention you fool.

Mind=Philophicus=Chain Smoker

What you say is nice too, but my understanding of the word 'infinite' is based on a belief that if something has no boundary, then it proves to be infinite. The idea of entropy is also nice, but to believe that everything will ultimately evolve towards a unity, a HUGE suspension of disbelief is required as the time frame for that to happen would be beyond comprehension. Therefore, it is ultimately futile even discussing such an absurdity.

Oh, so everytime someone agree's with me, he is me!? There are people out there who believe in me, besides myself.

in this case yes ,mind and chainsmokers were socks you created.

tHIS IS CHAIN SMOKER HERE, OFF-COURSE UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME BECAUSE I WAS BANNED. I'M NO SOCK OF ANYONE. I JUST HAPPEN TO BE USING A PUBLIC COMPUTER IN AN INTERNET CAFFEE, SO IT'S VERY POSSIBLE THAT TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE CAN USE THE SAME COMPUTER AND HENCE HAVE THE SAME IP, BUT THESE IDIOT MODERATORS DON'T GET THAT!

Oi, beanbag...cool yer bootz, yeah...I is all for a lill' of de ole' tomfoolary, but it don't take a blind maaan to see dat you are in cahoots wid dee ole Philo...And Philo, me ole mucker, believin' in wat you say ain't de same as believin in you...No wot I mean, maaate? Nows, lets get back to talkin 'bout me ole man again...

Ohhhh, and beany...don't stray too far 'OFF-COURSE'! Ha...nice.

Hey, new Jesus, nice talkin to ya again - always a pleasure mate! Have we got a schezo-multiple-dude-complex here o what! What's the latest news on God - is he still dead?

yeah right

I love smokin! one after the other!

yeah real ingenious

Thanks!

sure

Yeah, yeah, Philo..."Praise the Lord" an' all dat...but don't be takin me name in vain, yer hear! I ave to do a press-up every time one of my flock does that un' - I tell ya for free, I got a six-pack like no tomorrow!

Anyway, me dad is jus' avin a nap...tis all. He's had a lotta work to do recently...attending Dubya's inauguration, for instance...but he'll be right as rain in a few sixpences...

But just to 'clarify the butter', as it were...The uni' is infini and the end ain't nigh, so carry on party-people, make sum noise!