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Just because these are fun....

We can probably all agree that Luke was at his peak ability in ROTJ (EU novels aside, this is movie-based) and we also know that Qui-Gon was an accomplished swordsman as well.

But who would win, Luke from ROTJ, or Qui-Gon from TPM?

Crap, posted this in the wrong spot. Could someone please move this to the EU section?

Sorry 'bout that.

Luke was more gifted, but Qui-Gonn had more skill. However, I go with Luke because I know Qui-Gonn would get man handled by Vader.

Qui-Gon by a MILE!

No OT combatant comes anywhere near the PT ones. Even in ROTJ, Luke is unprofessional and clumsy. Qui-Gon is slick and skilled.

This was specifically GL's point. Luke he calls a half-trained boy. ALL the combatants in the earlier films are superior, including Anakin to the diminished Vader.

There is simply no doubt on this; GL has made the point clear.

While I do agree that Luke Skywalker is far more gifted than Qui-Gon Jinn, Qui-Gon's skills as a swordsman are far superior to Luke's. Vader was easy on Luke because he didn't want to kill his own son, that is the ONLY reason Luke was able to go toe-to-toe with him.

No, Vader lost 'cause he was slow and not like he used to be. His peak was when he was Vader but not yet in the suit. After he gained the suit his skills lessened considerably, enough that even a half-trained boy like Luke could take him down. Luke's not all that powerful really, Vader was just weak by the time he faced Luke the 2nd time.

My vote goes for Qui-Gon, gotta go for the Master on this one.

Yeah 1 Qui Gon could defeat ROTJ luke easy! maybe not Jedi Master Luke

Slow mechanical Vader was, but weak he was far from.

it depends at what point in return of the jedi.i believe someone posted a quote by GL that said the events that took place in ROTJ made Luke the strongest force user ever so if that means right at the end Luke could take anyone but if he meant directly after than no he couldn't

Heck of a lot weaker than he was.

And no, that's not true, Jimmy- he has only just become a Jedi by that time!

Mm. Vader is only a master of evil. He would be, not he is at the moment. Sure, he took out Vader, but he got whooped by the Emperor, and he uses the force, too.

the quote i read was somethign along the lines of that experience with the emperor and his fathers salvation somehow enlightened him. he may not be the most powerful force user simply b/c he doesn't know much about the jedi order but i think he was supposedly opened more to the force after that experience

Well... since this is the eu, i'm going to bring the EU into this. When luke comes out, he's not a super jedi who can move spaceships with a flick of a wrist. he's an untrained farmboy who is making it up as he goes. I don't realy care what you guys say about "George lucas said". Its EU.

*Prepares to get flamed*

I think that Qui Gon has a definite chance against Vader, but Luke is far to acrobatic for him. All that jumpin' around would throw him off. Maybe Obi Wan could though.....

??? WTF? far to... what are you talking about? TO ACROBATIC? luke... farm boy

*Inneccesent jibbering*

Luke.

Uh-huh... even though GL says no, and so therefore anyone saying Luke is totally wrong.

Oh, "GL said it...".
Bleh. I don't really like the prequels, and I LOVE the OT.
Luke.

Ush, you're not a speculating type of person are you?

What;s the point of speculating on fact? Speculation is there to lay out possible options- but if something is a known fact, then there aren't any options! Speculate on things we don't know, not things we do!

Maybe he could get lucky. I dunno, I'm not saying I think Luke would win but you never know.

I agree with Vader going easy on Luke. In ESB, when Luke damaged Vader's shoulder Vader got angry and cut Luke's hand off. But in ROTJ the tables were flipped I think because Luke seemed to be in control but when Vader said that crack about Leia Luke got really angry and totally owned his ass. I think Luke would beat Qui Gon.

Well, anyone can get lucky against anyone! But that is magnificently not the point, is it? The point is, who is better? The actual answer, which is official and therefore can only be differed from if you are wrong, is Qui-Gon.

Anyone who has voted Luke is simply wrong. It is not a matter of opinion.

Exactly, I wasn't saying Luke could win, and certainly not that he was skilled enough to beat Qui-Gon. I absolutely think that Qui-Gon would beat Luke's sorry a$$. And he wouldn't let Luke tap into the Dark side, Arsenal, so Luke wouldn't go ballistic on him.

For those who voted for Luke...you just gotta ask yourselves one simple question:

"Would Luke hold up against Darth Maul as long as Qui-Gon did?"

The answer is an obvious NO.

Period.

Qui gon would win. They are very similiar in style and everything but lets put it this way.

Obi wan beats anakin in ROTS
Qui Gon was better than obi wan from ROTS. He was OB1s master earlier and simply was a jedi for longer and was therefore more knowledgable and powerful. Sure Qui gon lost to maul while obi wan beat maul but i think we can all admit that he wouldnt have beaten maul if he wasnt in an effort to avenge his master.
And Vader/Anakin was more powerful than luke (in the fights he was going easy on luke to try to turn him to the dark side).
So Qui gon is more powerful than Luke in my opinion

thats a matter of self control
Luke had better self control than Vader / Anakin thats what took Anakin down the path of the darkside, his lack of control of his emotions.

Qui had a lot more self control, better than Vader & son and he would have dissected a two year trained padawann that Luke was, with style.

how the hell Luke had the balls to call himself a Knight after 2 years of training is a joke.
even if he had his fathers powers, and was trained by Yoda himself and Obi's ghost,
to train as a Jedi takes years from the age of 4

Jabba was right
"he's no Jedi"

I change my mind as well. As the fight progressed Luke would gain the afvantage. But much like his father he would become enraged and Qui-Gonn would be wise enough to use that oppurtunity to his advantage and we'd see yet another skywalker hand sever.

*sigh of relief* Suddenly this thread looks alot prettier

eh don't care

Well, I just stumbled across this thread.

Qui-Gon will win for sure. Luke was indeed very powerful for a boy with only two years of training, but Qui-Gon was a Jedi Master with considerable lightsaber skills too. The only thing Luke beats Qui-Gon in is potential. Qui-Gon has him outclassed in everything else. It doesn't matter, Skywalker or not, Luke gets manhandled in this one.

Originally posted by bILLYgOAT
thats a matter of self control
Luke had better self control than Vader / Anakin thats what took Anakin down the path of the darkside, his lack of control of his emotions.

Qui had a lot more self control, better than Vader & son and he would have dissected a two year trained padawann that Luke was, with style.

how the hell Luke had the balls to call himself a Knight after 2 years of training is a joke.
even if he had his fathers powers, and was trained by Yoda himself and Obi's ghost,
to train as a Jedi takes years from the age of 4

Jabba was right
"he's no Jedi"

That last line especially hits the mark. Luke isn't worthy of being considered a Jedi padawan, let alone a Jedi knight. Considering Qui Gon held up as long as he did against Maul, mostly by himself and always on the offensive proves his worth.

Qui Gon would win this one easily, he would have absolutly no problem with it either.

Luke simply doesn't stand a chance against a fully trained Jedi Master, who could have been on the council if he wasn't so stubborn... Luke may have founded a council, but would he have been around earlier he would get man handled by every single Jedi he faced simply because they had training and he did not

Qui gon would have mopped the floor with Vader and Luke at the same time with total ease if he was transported to ROTJ times. Vader was far weaker then he was at the time of fighting obi wan, and Luke is nothing more then a mildly trained farm boy with a high mediclorian count and potential. Don't forget, that Qui Gon was the strongest swordfighter of all the Jedi at the time of his death, and there are SO many powerful jedi at TPM times.

Qui Gon would have man handled the father son skywalker team without breaking a sweat.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, anyone can get lucky against anyone! But that is magnificently not the point, is it? The point is, who is better? The actual answer, which is official and therefore can only be differed from if you are wrong, is Qui-Gon.

Anyone who has voted Luke is simply wrong. It is not a matter of opinion.

What the crap have you been hearing??? What official point are you talking about?!!

ahem, back on subject though, I can't believe how little respect ROTJ Luke gets on these boards. "He's no Jedi"? bull crap, he is to a Jedi. He trained for 4 years under Obi-Wan's ghost and had quite a bit of training as Yoda's SOLE student. Add that with his amazing potential and that Yoda SAYS he is a Jedi, I think he is. Next, if he's such a weakling like most of you think, how did he get so freakin powerful in the NJO? He didn't learn from anyone after ROTJ but he is referred to as a great Jedi Teacher.

Everyone seems to think Vader would beat Maul, so if Maul defeated Qui-Gon (easily I might add), and Luke beat Vader, why do you think Qui-Gon would beat Luke? Qui-Gon's good but it states several times in books that he was old and not as powerful as he once was.

And for all you "Vader is stronger than ROTJ Luke" people, why do you think the Emperor wanted Luke to be his apprentice instead of Vader? I think it might be because Luke is stronger. So when Vader realized this, do you really think he wanted to let his son destroy him so that Luke could take his spot? Luke was the one who didn't want to fight! And Vader says "he will join us or die." Vader can't even touch Luke in ROTJ. He got his @** handed to him within 40 seconds. And for the George Lucas believers, he says that Luke is stronger than Vader in ROTJ.

That being said, Luke would win easily over Qui-Gon.

Actually he learned a lot from Vodo Soisk(?) hlocron. (the one destroyed by Exar Kun). He also learned a lot from Joruus C'baoth. He fought many other force users to like the Jennsari(even if he killed five in a few seconds). Still, ROTJ beats Qui-gon.

ROTJ Luke sucks because it took him 40 seconds to beat Vader and Obi-wan killed Maul in 37. lol

I don't think he had much time to learn from Vodo, though he did a little bit. And I was under the impression that he didn't learn much from Joruus because he quickly realized what he was trying to do.

lol, I liked the last line and it's nice to have some others that agree with me.

Luke was in rage when he cut of Vaders hand. When Vader faced Luke the first time, Vader not only won but he won easily. Luke received no more training after that, at least not for as far as we know. He probably went to Tatooine with the rest of those idiots and tried to get Han free. After which he went back to Dagobah to find Yoda dying.

Now where the hell does it say he received training from Obi's ghost? He was surprised to see his ghost in ROTJ for the first time or at least for the time with out being out cold. He may have heard Obi's voice but he never saw him after Obi died. How much training could he received in the flight from Tatooine to Alderaan? Not more then a few days, weeks at most. Then he went to Dagobah and was trained by Yoda.

And that did a lot of good he could almost lift a X-wing out of the swamp, after which he rushed off to help his friends. To fight Vader...

If there is any indication for how a fight between the two of them would go if they faced fairly without emotion then that is the one to see. Luke would get his ass kicked by Vader if the two faced each other in a real fight. If Vader actually wanted to kill Luke.

And Qui-Gon could sure as hell beat somebody like Vader who was weaker then he was when he faced Obi. He was in a freaking suit against an agile and powerful Jedi Master. If Qui could beat him he could also beat Luke

Originally posted by Vanquish
Qui gon would have mopped the floor with Vader and Luke at the same time with total ease if he was transported to ROTJ times. Vader was far weaker then he was at the time of fighting obi wan, and Luke is nothing more then a mildly trained farm boy with a high mediclorian count and potential. Don't forget, that Qui Gon was the strongest swordfighter of all the Jedi at the time of his death, and there are SO many powerful jedi at TPM times.

Qui Gon would have man handled the father son skywalker team without breaking a sweat.

are you smokin rock?

yeah qui gon wuld whip luke's anus, but not both of em. he couldnt even take vader alone.

Why do you say that? Vader wasn't agile or fast enough to stand up against Qui gon... And i doubt the force alone would make him win that fight, actually i'm pretty sure it wouldn't

whatever you say, chief.

this coming from the guy who says George Lucas is wrong about his own story.

And you thought your points were logical?

Maul wins cause he's badass and i'm in love..

Anakin beats all except for Luke cause GL says so and he is holy...

How incredibly boring can a discussion become?

LUKE IS A FARMBOY AKA RATBOY

wow, you just cant admit being wrong, that sucks.

Actually in another thread Wanderer pretty much defeated your entire point about this... Meaning that its just absolute bullshit what you are saying

Here's the defense.

George Lucas says so, it's HIS story.

Alright, if its HIS story, why do YOu care, for one? Another, Lucas has obviously signed off on every bit of EU in one way or another. Where is it that he says specifically himself as recorded (Since that is the entire basis of your point) that no EU character shall ever be stronger or better than Luke, Sidious, Vader, etc? Where does it say Luke was able to beat Qui Gon Jinn by ROTJ?

And since we're using GL's words as fact, has he ever contradicted himself? Has he ever said things that were clearly off or not true? Anything?

Hmm Janus, no use to attack that point anymore.. Wanderer already showed a quote pretty much proving that GL never said Anakin Palp or Luke were the most powerful ever.

Well, I agree the point is made, but I wanted to leave something out there for others to consider before making the inevitable rebuttal.

How can he argue with the all holy word of GL if he is the one that considerst the word holy

It's like god making a rock so big he can't lift it.

i believe it would all be down to the moment, qui gon uses ataro whilst luke is an inexperianced swordsman. maybe if darkhorse releases a crappy comic like vader vs maul and luke vs maul, we will find out.

Qui-Gon focused heavily on the 'living force' and Luke would still be relatively unexperienced on things like that, and would only gain that kinda knowledge after ROTJ (again this should be EU). Qui-Gon's pretty good with a lightsaber though unless we remember that no one can actually kill Luke, it just never happens.

Luke would win hands down. Qui Gon is great but if Luke can beat Vader with only minumum training just imagine what he'll do to Qui Gon.
I think Qui Gon is supremem for knowledge and trusting in the force but when it comes to saber dueling he coudn't even beat Maul and you know Vader would have defeated Maul. And if Luke can beat Vader do the math

Your logic sucks.

Below is Darth Vader. Tell me how he's a bigger threat than Maul?

Pure lightsaber skill wise i'd say Maul is better than Vader. I really don't think Vader is the best swordsman ever. Plus, I have conceded to the fact that Vader was conflicted against Luke. If he wanted to, he could have easily obliterated Luke. I doubt Luke could have held off Maul the way Qui-Gon did.

He wouldn't stand a chance, Maul was far to aggresive, Luke had absolutly no experience in defending or attacking with a lightsaber. He would die fast.

maul defeated both qui-gon and obi wan.(yes, i know obi killed him, yet he was still defeated, since he lost his saber and was hangin from that stick or w/e). obi wan defeated anakin. anakin pre-lava bath was stronger then luke, that means obi wan was stronger then luke. qui-gon and obi wan are at least same level, maybe qui-gon is even better, following: Qui-gon wins.


P.S. if u understood what i just wrote, PM me and explain it to me. lol, no kiddn, but that is some complicated shit.

Qui-Gon Jinn is probably one of my favorite jedis, him and Obi-Wan were amazing together. Up againt 'Jedi' Luke, it's so hard to say. I mean Qui-Gon was more than accomplished. I think his nature alone would prevent a batte from even happening, but that's obviously to be excuse for the sake of the post. I think Luke did very well against Vader, but Qui-Gon was masterful all throughout EP I. Maybe like EP II OBI vs. 'Jedi; Luke would be a better fight. I may be biast though, the Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan duo has a special little place in my heart.

i wanna watch Maul fight ESB luke.

lmao.

Why? It wouldn't be a challenge? Maul would win as soon as he ignites his lightsaber

i know, it wuld be funny.