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Most people agree that Batman is DC's top normal guy. But, I was curious to everybody's opinion on Marvel's. Let me give you a few specifications before you answer. When I say top hero, I don't mean in sales or popularity. I mean the best guy to get the job done. When I say normal Superhero, I am being pretty strict. Any hero that has any type of powers or physical enhancements is disqualified. Any hero that consistently uses equipment that can not be realistically made or technology that does not exist is disqualified. For example, Iron Man. I really can't think of anybody that can compete with Punisher in this category. Let me know if I am forgetting somebody or if you know of a Marvel hero that may not be as famous, but still gets her done.

The Punisher, By far, or Eddie Brock without Venom helping.

Howard The Duck is normal, hes just from another dimension, hes from Duckworld... which is Earth in the other dimension... So technically hes normal, hes pretty wicked also.

Normal? Hmm............Daredevil

According to Matches stipulations Daredevil is disqualified. He's got " powers " that are beyond ordinary and obviously Venom does as well. I think he's looking for characters more along the lines of Black Widow and the Punisher. People who have NOTHING particularly enhanced. The same going for their weapons or equipment -- though Batman HARDLY qualifies since he has some gadgets that just wouldn't be conceivable, realistically. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyway. Elektra and Black Widow are definitely top tier UN-enhanced heroes. Everything they do is based in their inherent human skills and abilities.

captain america{hes had the serum but he's still human}, black panther,
shang chi, master, punisher, electra,

Eddie Brock without Venom helping...
Hes an upper class guy that can bench press almost 1000 pounds, hes really strong and has fought spiderman without the symbiote before.

How the heck is Captain America a normal hero? He was in the super soldier project!

Wouldn't Batman fall into this category? And being the master of a dozen forms of martial arts is quite a stretch.

Elektra has her kung fu variety ESP.

I see there is a little confusion. Nathaniel Grey, you got the picture. Let me give everybody "some" of the names that are disqualified.

Daredevil- Radar sense and other heightened senses.

Black Panther- Physical enhancements, Vibranium suit and claws, energy dagger, and heightened senses

Captain America- He's definitely out. Unbreakable adamantium/vibranium shield. With the serum, he is slightly stronger and faster than any person can train to be. Without the serum, his 98 pound body couldn't beat up my neighbor.

Howard the Duck- He is out. He's not close to any normal duck I have seen.

Non heroes are out- Can't be background characters.

Krissy, I think you missed my point. Batman knows more than a dozen forms of martial arts. That's definitely a stretch. The point is that it is still possible. With enough motivation, any one of us can master multiple fighting forms. Also, just like the quote you have says, he does "consistently" use equipment that can be realistically made. Batman has used technology that does not exist, especially when he is in JLA issues and crossovers where he is teamed with powerful allies, such as Superman, but that is not what he consistently uses. His usual arsenal consists of gas pellets, tear gas, night lenses, batarang, rope, gas mask, a bullet proof kevlar suit, and other gear like that. He doesn't use stuff like the "mother box" in his solo comics when he is facing Joker or Riddler.

You can take away any impossible equipment that Batman has used in his entire life and you will still have the same character. Take a look at the heroes I have disqualified and the reasons that I disqualified them. If you take away the powers or equipment that disqualified them, they would not be the same character. For example, Daredevil with regular senses or a Cap that is weaker than your sister.

When you are considering a hero, try to think of it like this. Can I make a movie about this character and have the audience believe that it is possible. You can do that with Batman and Punisher. You can't do that with Iron Man or Panther because of his vibranium suit. They'll see Panther run up walls and sap the momentum from bullets and know thats not possible. That doesn't mean Batman is relatable. He is very unrelatable because he is so good at everything and has a crap load of money to fund his gear. Daredevil is far more relatable because he has no money and has less advantages than Batman. But, he is not possible and Batman is. I hope that I have helped clear some things up. I probably didn't, because I am not good at expressing points.

Nathaniel Grey, You seem to have the idea down. In one hour I am leaving for a couple days. I would appreciate it if you could help out with any confusion people have. By the way, I have noticed that you have had quite the struggle in a Batman/Panther thread. Just want you to know that I think Panther should be able to defeat Batman. I don't even think it would be as close as you have expressed. He should take Batman pretty easily.

I'll peek in every so often to make sure people get the point. Sure. And Hawkeye, I believe, goes on the list. Nearly every aspect of the character is conceivable when applied to the real world. Save a few of his outrageous arrows. But I'm sure if someone wanted they could be duplicated.

Black Panther without the herbs and enhancements would still be very badass.

Baron Zemo--The jury's out on whether or not this guy is currently a hero or villian, but last time he appeared with the Thunderbolts he had very noble intentions, just somewhat wonky means to his end. He has access to advanced tech, and can create it, but he usually doesn't use it, being to proud to rely on technology when he's obviously a superior Aryan. And it's nothing more than what Batman has. Usually he carries a broad sword and guns. Also a Lueger or Walther, more sentimental than anything but he has had occasion to bust it out. Same with his dad.

Citizen V--Various Citizen V's have operated since WWII, all doing so without physical enhancements. Sometimes they have access to advanced tech that puts them out of this category though.

Swordsman--both I and II were very good fighters, especially with bladed weapons. Have to wait for more info on the new one (appearing in Thunderbolts! Check it out!)

Sans Redwing and flight harness, the Falcon is also a very good regular guy. A few issues of Priest's Cap and Falcon had him flightless as his harness had been destroyed (and Redwing's cool, but it's not like he adds that much) and he still kicked ass.

Most of the Union Jack's have operated, successfully, without powers at one point or another.

Just recently, seen in She-Hulk, The Challenger was somehow brought forth from WWII to present day. "Bill Waring is a meek and harmless law student who is a victim of bullies. He never does much about this, but when his father is killed for giving evidence to the D.A. about an alliance between the Mob and a prominent local politician, Bill swears vengeance. He travels around the world, learning the proper skills to avenge his father and kill criminals. (Capturing the bad guys is not a high priority for the Challenger, who is very much in the Killer Vigilante mode.) The Challenger learns jiu-jitsu in Japan. He learns chemistry in Tibet (Tibet???). He learns nerve control in India, so that he is immune to pain. He learns swordsmanship in Paris and marksmanship in Germany. He learns how to fly in England. He learns how to box. He learns every imaginable skill which might help him in the war against crime. And then he returns to America and avenges his father, after which he takes on various other criminals. " From http://www.geocities.com/ratmmjess/gaguide.html

Nighthawk--originally created as a Batman ripoff for the Squadron Supreme and Sinister. Very cool, our reality's Nighthawk later gained powers, broke from the Squadron Sinister and redeemed himself in the Defenders. The one in the Squadron Supreme's reality never gained powers but remained an influential hero.

As for a few villians, even though the thread doesn't ask for them, I find it's always good to give both sides of the coin.

Boomerang is just a normal guy, he used to have boot jets I think, but last time I saw him, he'd ditched those.

Batroc, the master of Savate. Goofy, for sure, but he has put up a few good fights.

Crossbones--no powers but usually gave Cap a run for his money.

Zaran--the weapon's master. Very good fighter, expert usage of pretty much any weapon.

Howard the Duck is out??!!

Well, he shouldnt be... cause he has no powers, hes a master at Quack Fu which makes him somewhat formiddable, he killed Dracula for crying out loud! They gave the gayness credit to blade in his dumb movies! Wheres howard the ducks new movie? Huh?! Huh??!

But really, Howard is normal he has no powers, hes just a different species of being.

What about Nick Fury! As far as i know he has no powers!

Oh, just remembered Tony stark! he just has a powerful suit as iron man

His advanced technology puts him out of this category.

Nick Fury has the Infinity Formula which retards his aging, he's in his 80's actually. So I don't think he fits.

Anyone with anything that is advanced or "super" or enhanced is out.

The Punisher

Moonkinght!?

Batman.

Moonknight is mystically enhanced 3/4ths of the time. Batman is DC, so he doesn't fit into this thread, Vic.

O.k, o.k here gose....how about conan!

Conan's now being licensed by Dark Horse, he was never a Marvel Property in the first place.

Is Hawkman o.k? or does he have powers?

he was a marvel property


hawkman is dc

why is fictional technology/equipment disqualified? batman has billions of 'em


good to know im not alone heheh

Nick Fury would probably be up there..Nomad would also be a contender..as would Shang Chi, Black Widow, and Silver Sable..to name a few...

Nomad's a sooper soldier. And Nick's got the infinity formula. There is also some conjecture that Black Widow must be a recipient of the Infinity Formula or something akin to it, as her background story is so deeply rooted in WWII and the Soviet Union she should be over 60.

How about Night Thrasher... no powers, rich, martial arts, weapons

Yeah. Forgot about him.

They should give Batroc his own series.

According to Scarlet Spider's info, Black widow may not be normal after all. If anybody would post info on her exact details, I would appreciate it.

Eddie Brock, Daredevil, and Black Panther may be bad mother f***ers without their advantages, but you still would not be able to take away their fantasy element without completely altering the character that everybody knows. Howard may not have powers, but he is still too much of a fantasy character. I think Shang Chi is specifically a back ground character. If he is a legitimate superhero and has had his own comic title, let me know. Batman can't be picked, he's not Marvel.

Nate, thanks for reminding me about Hawkeye. I forgot all about him. I almost wavered my opinion and was going to change my pick to Hawkeye. But, I decided to stick with Punisher for my choice.

Havoc, fictional equipment in a hero's usual arsenal is not allowed because it is too much of a fantasy. It would be hard to consider the hero that uses the fake equipment somebody that we can become if we had the motivation, dedication, and free time. Also, it would be difficult to say "Iron Man is not super powered" with a straight face.

I am going to list the qualifying heroes that have been nominated for Marvel's top normal superhero at this point. If I missed somebody's post or their pick, let me know. If one of these heroes are not normal, please state the info that disqualifies them.

Nathaniel Grey- Electra, Hawkeye- Pick your top choice, please.

IRTUM Dragon- Punisher

Snake Eyes- Punisher

Scarlet Spider- You gave props to a whole bunch of people. Can you narrow it down and give me your top choice for a hero?

Krissy- Night Thrasher

Whobdamandog- You mentioned that you could name a few people. Would you state who is your number one pick at getting things done?

The info I gave on Black Widow was mostly fan conjecture. Her history and origin is highly steeped in WWII and the Soviet Union, and there haven't been any aims to correct or modernize this. She was born in WWII, and looks like she's in her 30's. Hmm...okay, whatever. Also, that Widow's Bite is a bit high-tech.



I probably misconstruued what I meant. He was never owned by Marvel, only leased out by the Robert E. Howard estate for their use up until he quit being profitable for them.

With Hawkeye dead, the Challenger having made only one cameo apperance in modern continuity, most of the others I named having some wild tech, or being villians, the Black Widow enjoying senior citizen discounts and Night Thrasher and Shang Chi (who did have his own series, titled--Shang Chi: Master of Kung Fu) being relegated to obscurity, I find I must go with the Punisher.

PASTE POT PETE DAMMIT!!!..NUFF SAID..

Punisher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who is Paste Pot Pete?

the "Trapster" is his real name..."Paste Pot Pete" is the name that the Human torch mockingly calls him..he ain't a superhero though..he's a villian..and his main weapon is a glue cannon..lol..

a glue cannon is a fictional weapon though.....right?

anyway, i think the "rules" should be changed, batman has a ton of fictional technology/equipment, i mean he is a comic book character and he survived being shot in the right rib cage, stabbed multiple times in the stomach and then made an insane escape...not to mention he's in his 50's at that time (the dark knight returns)

I know somebody that was shot at least four times and he survived that incident. I know there are people that I do not personally know that have survived a great deal worse. Batman does not have imaginary equipment in his usual arsenal. The guy didn't even use kevlar armor until the mid 90's. Its pretty fair to say that when he gets into fights with normal street thugs, he uses his martial art skills and one batarang in most of those fights. Just out of curiosity, is "The Dark Knight Returns" part of DC's main continuity?

Havoc, let me see if I have this correctly. You want fantasy technology in? I am not totally against changing the rules that I have set, if that is what everybody wants. More than likely, Iron Man would dominate this thread even more than Punisher does now.

How many people think that somebody like Iron Man should be considered Marvel's top normal Superhero?

How many people think that somebody with existing technology should be considered Marvel's top normal Superhero?

Spiderman. He's a college student. Has problems like girls, and school..and so on.

He seems very down to earth until you get to his power.

Yes, but sadly the focus of this thread is to find the top super-hero without powers.



Even if it's not, Old Frankie boy takes more punishment than that on a regular basis, and he's in his 50's.

Stark shouldn't be considered Marvel's top normal super hero. He's invented and has access to technology far beyond that of mere mortal kin. Plus he's not technically normal anymore as he has a replacement mechanical heart. Not that it gives him any extra abilities, but it's something that nomral people just don't have.

Eddie Brock isn't a superhero he's a super killer and sociopath ^^ but anyway yes he's strong even without the symbiote, when the symbiotes generated by hiw own comes to free him from a governative lab, he knock down one of them with a single punch.

No its not fictional..it's for real..I actually have a glue cannon at home...and Batman's technology is not fictional....its just that becauz he has more money than other people..he can make more sophisticated weapons....

The punisher

Well, I have decided that I am going to be pretty dead set on having fictional equipment disqualifying heroes that always use them. They must be heroes that are actually possible. So, the original rules still stand.

Scarlet Spider, you mentioned that you might have picked Night Thrasher but he was relegated to obscurity. I know almost nothing about him, but I do have a Spiderman comic where he guest starred. Just basing it on that one appearance I saw, he looked like he could qualify. He looked like Marvel's version of Batman. Considering that you always have a load of comic knowledge, can you tell me the scoop on him and tell me why or why not you think he should qualify as a hero that is actually possible? I would appreciate it.

Night Thrasher is a partial Batman clone, though infused with the spirit of the 70's and 80's.

A member of the New Warriors, his parents, who happened to own a company and had command of a vast fortune (hmm...familiar) were killed. He vowed to punish criminals and trained in fighting, strategy, espionage, etc.. After awhile he built a suit to aid him. Nothing fancy, bullet proof, flame proof, super-skateboard, hydraulic boots for good jumping. He fought with and financed the New Warriors pretty much.

Last I saw him, was an appearance in New Warriors v2. He had given up the armor, and toured the world training, becoming more Batman/Nightwing-esque. He took on a horde of ninjas that were giving Iron Fist trouble, and helped out Fist a bit until the Warriors showed up and they all teamed up. Anyways, very good fighter, could be a great hero, just someone needs to use him.

Edit: Upon checking, they weren't just any ninjas, they were forces from The Hand. He was dispatching them with a modicum of ease.

impressive

For goodness sakes, is there anything that you don't know? Maybe you should change your name to Oracle. Anyway, Night Thrasher sounds bad as crap. Scarlet, would you say this is a hero that is actually possible?

the same could be said about ironman

if you have a fictional amount of money you have fictional weapons, if its not made then its fictional, the television was fictional before it was made and now it isnt, so i have to say the bat-mobile/plane would be fictional with the amount of doo-hickeys in/on it, and isnt the cape made out of titanium or something like that?

then comes batman in hush, did anyone see the amount of tech on his suit?

so i think if you wanna talk about top NORMAL heroes, we shouldnt only be searching for one in marvel, but also in DC

did he get shot close range in the rib cage, then run after someone as insane as Joker, then catch up with him and get stabbed several times in the stomach, then plant bombs on his body, then run away, then escape a whole swat team and a big group of police officers....not to mention they were shooting to kill heheh

dude..lol..I was joking..just to let you know...

Punisher in Marvel

I don't know exactly what he did, because I didn't shoot him. But, from what I was told, my friend that was shot four times was pretty much out of commission. But, I do know a police officer that was shot once and continued chasing a suspect. These are people I directly know and they are just regular guys. They didn't devote their lives to being physically and mentally perfect.

Please, don't compare Batman with Iron Man. They are both rich and neither have physical enhancements. But, they are so different, its not even funny. Bill Gates doesn't have the money to fund making Stark's gear. For crying out loud, there's not enough money in the world to fund Stark's gear. His equipment is pure fantasy. Its just not possible.

In his first guise, not so much. He had light armor, and some tech. But in his most recent one, he was pretty much just a regular guy. His suit was just a strong weave, most likely bullet proof, fabric. He didn't have the skateboard or hydraulic boots. His skills were attributed to lots and lots of training and study.

Yea, in the only appearance I have seen of him, his suit looked like it could be made. It looked like it was bullet proof and had a blade that could pop out of his wrist. That being said. You still going with Punisher? Or is there a chance Thrasher might be in your new top pick?

I've read more Punisher and know more about the Punisher. Thrasher is cool, but most of my knoweldge of him isn't first hand really.

no offense but thats probably the stupidest thing i've ever read, batman has had more than one armored suit with an amazing amount of technology on it, he has a whole batcave full of technology that could rival s.h.i.e.l.d. and same goes for oracle (i dont know if she was funded by bruce wayne though) and again, Hush showed his normal suit to have a crap load of tech on it, from the whole suit acting as a tazer to keep enemies away to several different types of vision (heat vision and night vision) built into the mask, and theres a crapload of even more technology from his bat-mobile/plane/boat

I'm still pulling for the Batroc ongoing series.

Havoc, Batman has walked around in his tights for most of his career for god's sakes. He moved up to kevlar in the mid 90's, but he still can get beat up by several ninjas. Ironman can nuke a city and put up a good fist fight Wonder Woman. Either way, Batman is not Marvel.

Side note- Jeez, I am so sorry for the delayed response.

I was a big fan and reader of the New Warriors and the Night Thrasher solo series in the early 90s.

His suit was possible it was more like High tech riot armour than anything. Bengal ( An orphan from the Vietnam War turned Assassin) Pierced it with a Sai and Midnights Fire broke his helmet with his fist and neither of these guys had super strength they were just very skilled martial artist's.

He also took on Gideon (Anyone remember him?) Hand to hand and kicked his ass as he had no super powers for Gideon to copy so it came down to hand to hand and Thrasher was a lot more skilled.

Thrasher has also met the Punisher and they had a brief skirmish as Thrasher didn't want the Punisher to kill Bengal it was inconclusive but Thrasher held his own.

He designed a modified Armour which could shoot baton rounds from his wrists but again this isn't out of the realms of reality.

The armour in no way enhanced his physical abilities so I think hes a good choice and would be my pick.

If however your talking about Hero's who are more mainstream then I have to go with the Punisher.

I personally believe that as far as stories, powers, attitude, character and relatability goes, Spider-Man is the best.

Not respectively, I know he's not the most powerful.

Overall I just think he's the best character. I identify with and relate to The Silver Surfer alot, he's my favourite, but I just think Spider-Man is the best.

-AC

Black Cat? Punisher?

The Punisher is marvel's flagship non super powered hero. I also like Night Thrasher. They should bring him back, and give'm his own comic. Black Widow 1, Silver Sable, Shang Chi, and the late Hawkeye? They have no super powers. I'd say Bullseye as well, but he is a hired gun and ruthless mercenary.

well i'd say black widow, silver sable, elektra, black cat, maybe bullseye, hawkeye um... there are others but these are the top imo

Sentry and Stormfront13, Bullseye is a villain, so he wouldn't qualify.

Sentry, you are definitely correct in saying that Punisher is Marvel's flagship character in that category. That is why I was curious if there was a character that can get the job done better than him, but just was not as famous. Many of you guys have given me some really good names.

My personal pick is still Punisher, but I may be starting to lean towards Night Thrasher. Especially, the way Scarlet Spider and Heracles were describing him.

oh ha ha its just heroes?? lol k forgot

I'd have to go with batman, spiderman, nightwing, or huntress

this is marvel lol

...and heros w/out superpowers.

Originally posted by stormfront13
this is marvel lol

oops ..


In that case .....

I'm not sure

vote Punisher Diana! fighting19

Heres something to think about.

A lot of other heros and the police count Punisher as a mass murderer and a criminal so should he count? lol

sure....he's an anti hero....he kills bad guys and would never hurt law officals.

Punisher info, here:
"Most Descipable Act: Gunning down a couple for jay-walking, and another fellow for littering. Frank has since switched to de-caf."

http://www.geocities.com/marvel_terror/punisher/punisher.html

Nightrasher beats Punisher any day of the week

Actually they fought and it pretty much ended in a draw. Actually the fight was good until Punsher had to leave and he pulled out his machine gun and blasted Night Thrasher point blank with a barrage of bullets. He survived thanks to his armor, but from what I could tell Punisher had more experience, and had a slight edge over Night Thrasher. If they fought know though, it would be a different story. They should bring Tharsher.

That wasn't just for the hell of it though, there was something wrong with him, well more wrong than usual.