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Who would win? Remember to vote.

Mace Would totally kick Dooku's old decrepid *censored*

Dooku would put up a fight, but I think Mace would take this one. Heck, he CREATED the 7th Form of lightsabre combat.

Yup, it's gotsta be Mace here.

err...the 7th for of combat is strictly EU, i;m afraid. that has no bearing on a potential fight between the two, in rots

This is a match-up that I've been thinking of ever since I saw EP2 but I have no idea who would win. I would think that Dooku's force lightning would give him the edge, but Mace would probably absorb it with his lightsaber like how OB1 did in EP2. I don't know if Mace could redirect it or absorb it with his bare hands like Yoda did, I hafta see EP3 to make an accurate prediction, assuming Mace has a lightsaber duel and shows his force skills more. I'm also beginning to see that Mace has a bigger fanbase then dooku.

We haven't seen Mace face another saber bearer. Dooku took care of Obi Wan AND Anakin without too much of a problem. I can't say one way or another until I've seen Windu face someone with a saber, but I'd have to say Mace would win this.

I don't even know if seeing EP3 would help me with this because even from the cartoon I still can't decide.

Dooku and Windu fight with power , serenity and not hurry. I think they are approximately of same level.

But cause i like the bad guy , i voted Dooku.

Dexx: No offence, but the different forms of lightsabre combat (there are 7 altogether) are not EU. They are from AotC: The Visual Dictionary.

Dooku's style is Form 2. Mace's is Form 7.

Arsenal: Don't worry, I'm pretty sure we'll see Mace duel someone in Ep 3. In the meantime, check out the comics. There is an issue in which Mace fights Assajj Ventress (a Dark Jedi who gave Anakin trouble in the Clone Wars cartoon) and easily beats her.

Mace Windu, all the way... the man is a legend with the lightsaber.... no one can best him.....

This is difficult indeed.

One hand, there is Dooku. A student of the force for over 80 years and now a promising Sith Lord. His form 2 style of lightsabre combat is made to go against other lightsabres which definately gives him an advantage. The darkside is strong in him, and as such you could argue he is more powerful than Mace, but either way the darkside does make him supremely more awesome.

Other hand is Mace Windu, Jedi Master. Viewed as Yoda's equal, and considered a legend throughout the galaxy for his bravery, incredible power, and his miraculous combat skills. I once read that Mace invented form 7 himself at the age of 12. Never the less, Mace, being a force sensitive human, is in far better physical shape than the count, creating a tremendous advantage.

Thus, in AOTC where Mace holds his sabre to Dooku's throat it could have been....

Mace deflected the incoming blaster shots andused a force push to dispose of his attackers as they were sent through the air, crashing into the wall and into several pieces. As he turned back he met Dooku's humming red blade and his ever confidant eyes.

"Master Windu, are you surprised that you still cannot defeat me?" Dooku teased as he easily twisted the Jedi's blade around harmlessly, using only one hand and keeping his feet firmly in the ground.
With a very cold stare shadowed by anger, Mace replied, "You've joined the darkside, you are already defeated."
Dooku's smile dropped to seriousness as Mace rushed forward and flipped over the Sith, slicing downward as he twisted over the top of Dooku's head. Dooku's feet were still planted, but as time increased, and Mace's energy never seemed to decrease, Dooku parried his opponent's blade aside and force pushed his former Jedi brother backward.
Mace brought his elbows to his chest as his fists clenched near his mouth. His eyes were shut and his lightsabre was in front of him. Dooku was an oppurtunist and thrusted forward, using the full extent of his powers to pierce through Master Windu's heart.
Mace did not need to see the blow now, he could feel it, completely attuned to the force he felt the incoming attacks, and the increasing anger inside Dooku.
Dooku began hacking madly, losing his composure which was essential to his stance. Mace was counting on that, he was hoping for that, and he was waiting for...
"Look at me when I am killing you!" the Sith screamed as he raised his other hand and fired a volley of force lightning at Mace, who stood firm, allowing his blade to absorb the dark energy.
Dooku increased the power from his anger and continuously fired volley after volley, until Mace finally opened his eyes.
Dooku's eyes revealed worry and that was when Mace made his move. Ducking, and rolling underneat Dooku's blade and lightning. As he came up he allowed Dooku to block the swing so he could plant a solid side kick into the Sith Lord's stomach.
Dooku immediately fired another current of lightning toward his former ally, but this time it was Mace's hand that was blocking the lightning, infuriating the count as to why his powers were failing him. Mace began slashing forward from several upward angles, crossing back with swings to the side. Dooku continuously parried aside the shots, using every ounce the darkside could fill his body, and soul. His eyes began glowing in a dark and strange yellow-orange blend, burning through his own pupils and into Mace's face.
Mace was now on the defensive, having to block swings from his upper left, while darting or blocking the lightning on his right. Dooku halted long enough to take his stance, his right foot forward, his left behind him and turned to the side. Mace locked his blade to Dooku's and planted his feet similarly, using all of his force abilities to keep Dooku locked in the stalemate with him.
The struggle was continuing for several moments, the blades being pushed back between the combatants faces repeatedly as Dooku could feel his opponent begin to weaken.
The lightning was now becoming too much for Mace, and he knew it. He moved his right hand slowly toward his sabre as Dooku's lightning followed. Dooku was unsure what he was doing, and immediately swithed the lightning to attack the sabre hand, hitting the blade, but still managing to course into his arm. Mace's other hand reached his hilt as his blade managed to hold off both Dooku's sabre and force lightning, long enough for the lightning to travel down Dooku's own sabre.
Before Dooku realized it, he was being scorched by his own dark powers and propelled though the air by an incredible force push from master Windu released.
Dooku was against the wall and leaning against it, trying to get up when Mace jumped forward bringing his sabre into a colossal downward swing aimed for the Count's head. Dooku attempted a parry as Mace knew he would. Which is why at the last moment he changed his focus and when he landed on the ground the two halves that once made Dooku's lightsabre were lying next to the fallen Sith.
Mace's blade rested an inch away from Dooku's chin as Dooku stared up in awe.
"It is over, Count," Mace said as he went backward half of a step, singaling for Dooku to rise, which he did obediently.
Before the glory would be his, Master Windu reacted to the oncoming blaster shots from a vessel floating above them. Several droids along with a dark cloaked figure watched on.
"Come Lord Tyrannus," the figure said as Dooku immediately used his last bit of strength to hover to the ship.
Mace attempted to grab Dooku, but the shadowy figure waved his hand and suddenly Mace could not use his legs.
"Your time will come soon enough, Master Windu," a dried out, yet strangely familiar voice echoed in the Jedi Master's mind.
Mace struggled to free his legs as the ship began to fly away, but it was no use.
"The Dark Lord of the Sith, no doubt," Mace thought outloud as the ship dissapeared from sight, along with the grip over his legs.
"The Sith Master is nearly in our reach. I hope the chosen one is ready."

Sorry, lame ending, but I just wanted to cover the fight

Cool battle Nefarus, you should consider writing for star wars comics or something.

Thanks dude. I'm working on some stories of my own that revolve around young Yoda, like in his prime and whatnot.
The other is about Mace Windu when he was younger, and Dooku will be in it, along with padawan Qui-Gonn and a pretty sweet adventure involving them and Yoda.

Darth Nefarus: That was really cool. It would have been a fine alternative ending to Ep 2.

Yeah. Damn George Lucas.

well, he had to have anikin loose his hand to a sith lord in a battle...

OB1 could have been drunk one day and decided to chop it off.

How about a compromise. Have it happen same as it did on-screen, but instead of Yoda, it's Mace Windu who shows up to save Anakin & Obi-Wan's arses. The fight would then happen much as Darth Nefarus described.

I agree. Not just because I like the idea of Mace and Dooku fighting, but it makes you wait until the last movie they have ever made to see Yoda get down and jiggy with his lightsabre.

It would add more to the scene where Anakin destroys Windu. He would be jealous of how Windu was able to fend off Dooku while Anakin could not.

Darth_Nefarus,

I agree with Arsenal's comment about you writing some Star Wars comics. Perhaps you've heard of the Infinites comics, they have to do with alternation versions of the Original Trilogy, none have been made for the Prequel Trilogy yet; but I am sure that after the release of Return Of The Sith they will be in the works. You should consider contacting LucasBooks and perhaps seeing if you could write an Infinities Comic Trilogy for Attacks Of The Clones.

As for the topic at hand, I vote Mace Windu. Mace is considered Yoda's equal, his form of Lightsaber combat (known as Vapaad or Vaapad if I remember correctly) is the closest to the Dark Side that is used by the Jedi Knights. Mace's style is just as aggressive as Dooku's, I believe he could take Dooku easily.

Mace: "Yo Count, yo boot's untied mother*censor*"





Mace: "You stupid *censor*, you fell for the dumbest *censor* trick in the god *censor* book of Jedi tricks!"

Sorry...

Mace would own Dooku

In the 'Power of the Jedi Source book' it states that only two people have ever beaten Mace Windu in combat. 1.) Yoda 2.) Dooku. However, it the Starwars Roleplaying Game Rulebook, it also states that Mace Windu is considered to be Yoda's equal in the Council so ...

Equal on the council has nothing to do with lightsaber combat.
Truth be told, once Dooku joined the darkside, he and Mace are forever equalled. The raw power of the darkside compensates Dooku's age, and Mace's youth provides the force to easily flow through him.

Oh, also look at their forms. Dooku is a stylish, poised defensive master of the darkside, while Windu is an in your face light sider.
EQUAL

I'd go with Mace on this one.

I voted for Mace Windu (I may have spelled that wrong... sue me) simply because of his impressive skills with Form VII. Masters of Form VII must learn and excel in other forms of combat, mostly those others except for perhaps II. And this provides the younger Jedi with an amazing advantage because he has not given too much energy to any one style, while still being a master in at least one.

Count Dooku, being the old fashioned aristocrat he is, probably spent all his bets on mastering Form II, which is still a considerable achievement. For straight dueling he may be ahead... but Form VII is anything but straight combat. It's based on unpredictability and raw emotion. Given the proper situation, Mace could easily defeat Dooku if he played his cards right.

That's a good rationalization.
Go Mace.

Actually, forget I ever said that.

Mace and Dooku would be one of the best duels ever. Like most of the other people have said, Mace will probably get the edge in pure skills with a lightsaber, but Dooku's Dark Side powers will compensate for that tiny deficit. Lucas definitely should have made Mace take on Dooku in AOTC instead of Yoda. It would have made much more sense because ever since Mace confronted Dooku on the balcony, it looked more like Mace, rather that Yoda, was going after Dooku.

I think Mace will wind up on top after a LONG, HARD-FOUGHT, TOE-TO-TOE nail-biter.

Dooku has been trained by Sidious, and Yoda.....Both of which have beaten Mace Windu. So how do you get Mace Windu would win?

I guess it's how much you chalk up training. Maul was trained by Sidious, who could probably slaughter Dooku and Mace at the same time. And yet he died at the hands of a padawan.

Don't assume that training means all the proper lessons have been drawn. And certainly, no real master ever allows his pupil to perfect and improve on the knowledge so that the master ceases to be the master. That would be foolish.

But one thing to consider is that Mace is self-taught and fights like no one else in the Order. His form reaches intensity of almost Sith-like proporations, and dark side or no, I doubt Dooku could have defeated Windu. There is no evidence suggesting otherwise, to be sure.

ok Maul is my favorite SW character, and i'll defend him to the end, but he would not have the closest chance of beating Windu and Dooku at the same time.....Maybe his raw lightsaber skills are better, but there's no way, you're talking crazy talk, lol

here's proof.....obi wan beats anakin.....anakin beats mace windu.......dooku beat anakin and obi wan. tah-dah

I think you read that too fast. I said that Sidious could probably defeat Mace and Dooku at the same time.

Also, no one seems to keep in mind that since Dooku and Yoda showed Mace the lingering taste of defeat, -time- has passed. in other words, this prodigy has had a chance to reevaluate his style and perfect it moreso. He could easily reinvent himself.

oh oh.....yea sidious would destroy them both, your right. I like Mace Windu better than i like count dooku, so i wouldnt say he'd lose, if i didnt think he would. Its just common sense though. idk, maybe they tie.....Mace does have a chane though

chance**

If Mace is nearly able to best Sidious in combat, how can Dooku even compare?

only way dooku could beat mace is if mace was dead

the fight could go either way, dooku most likely winning. since it says in the sw databank that dooku has beaten mace in combat

True, and he's only gotten more powerful due to the darkside.
However, Mace nearly kills Sidious(unless Sidious lets him win) so it's possible Mace could win.

Was Mace a jedi master yet when Dooku defeated him? cuz if he wasn't then Mace doubtlessly got more powerful.

Well, I have no information that would answer your question, but from everything I've read, Dooku is better.

From starwars.com
"In his day, Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. It was said only two opponents ever bested him -- Yoda, and Dooku."

Dooku wins.

lol
you're crazy mace pwns dooku

it says ever bested him. that means beat him atleast once. mace might have beaten Dooku hundreds of times since then.

totally,,lol

well dooku has bested mace in combat, and is more powerful.........but i guess that all gets thrown out the window when ur using vapaad

Mace almost kills Palpatine when he is using pure vapaad

and because palps is holdin back.

I dont think he would have purposly let his face melt, and in the book it says Mace was very close to killing him. I dont think Palpatine would put himself in a position like that.

agree

but he could have killed him. he wanted anakin to help him and secure his turn to the dark side.

we can't know that,,,we'll see in19 days

no you will see!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

lol

lol

Meh. I still think Dooku could win, but I will admit that Mace has had time to improve and could possibly get the edge too. Depends on the environment.

ok,,setting my room (14m2)lol

Then Dooku Mace needs more room

lollololololololl


LOL

Well, although Dooku has already bested him and is more powerful via darkside, Mace has been fighting in the clone wars. he's had time to polish his skills significantly, so I change my vote to Windu

Dooku was very powerful. When he left the order he was second only to Yoda. I think this is because Mace was still training and Mace has gotten stronger at a faster rate than Dooku. Mace wins.

Yeah, he is a Jedi weapon master for a reason

BUMP

Although I am very much pro-sith, I think Mace would win.
Mace is a psycho duelist and would cut through Dooku's defensive moves!

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Dooku was very powerful. When he left the order he was second only to Yoda. I think this is because Mace was still training and Mace has gotten stronger at a faster rate than Dooku. Mace wins.

I remember this. No one ever did prove how or why Mace would grow rapidly in ten to thirteen years to overcome a lightsaber and jedi master and Dooku would somehow not. And considering that Dooku is pretty uber with a lightsaber and certainly appears much better in-movie, I never did follow this line of thought. I believe Dooku trounces Mace.

Originally posted by Dexx
err...the 7th for of combat is strictly EU, i;m afraid. that has no bearing on a potential fight between the two, in rots

Will you just shut up, you deranged fanboy! The Lightsabre forms are approved by Lucas and are canon, they were made by Nick Gillard, so shut up!

Originally posted by Deus Ex
I remember this. No one ever did prove how or why Mace would grow rapidly in ten to thirteen years to overcome a lightsaber and jedi master and Dooku would somehow not. And considering that Dooku is pretty uber with a lightsaber and certainly appears much better in-movie, I never did follow this line of thought. I believe Dooku trounces Mace.

Dooku had already mastered Makashi while Mace was still learning Vapaad. Mace would therefor have a greater amount ot learn and thus advance faster.

What time does this fight take place anyway?

Yeah, but Makashi > Vaapad in saber to saber combat. Makashi is MADE to duel with sabers. Vaapad neccessarily isn't. I mean, it's good, but Dooku is a Makashi master. Also, looking in film, Dooku is much more impressive in Force powers and saber ability.

Originally posted by Darth Traya
Will you just shut up, you deranged fanboy! The Lightsabre forms are approved by Lucas and are canon, they were made by Nick Gillard, so shut up! Er.... Dexx is a Mod, Traya.

Originally posted by Sorgo


I love how people mention the fact that Mace apparently gained this horseload of Experience of "fighting" throughout the years from their fight, but one of the only Lightsaber fights he had was with Sidious? Let us begin: AOTC, he kills a shitload of droids and decapitates a Bounty Hunter. In the CW cartoons, he lands on top of ship and disables a couple, he then kills more droids. The books: He has a few training fights with his pupils and then gets into two or three fights that last less than a few seconds for the fact that the are not going all out on each other. Now, over the years, Mace has been the only one sword training and has an overall margin of some superior power that he suddenly gained from a few years.
By the end of TPM, Dooku had swayed over to the Dark side, where he had learned a newer technique of the Force, which can prove to be a far more devastating power than the Light side (Proven when the Jedi basically get f*cked over on ROTS and the Dark side virtually wins, besides Anakin getting his shizzle all fizzled). Dooku has been able to fully administer and unleash the raw power of his form my applying emotion and infuriation. He has also had an Experience Margin in his older age. I can imagine all the Dark side Practice he had to go through for people to argue that he was better than Sidious. He would have had to train damn hard to already have such a dangerous and powerful knowledge of usage of the force, correct? Well, maybe he ALSO gained a grand canyon full of experience while Mace did. I am sure he didn't sit around in an office not practicing, or he wouldn't be as good as he is.

Only fought with Sidious?

He fought Grevious, Depa, Asajj, Quinlan, Sora(I think). Those are just the ones that immediatly come to mind.

The POINT is that Mace supporters are relying on the UNSUPPORTED assumption that Mace grew in strength more than Dooku did AND that he capped off higher than Dooku.

Actually the first one I have supported before and would now, but I'm going out for dinner.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Only fought with Sidious?

He fought Grevious, Depa, Asajj, Quinlan, Sora(I think). Those are just the ones that immediatly come to mind.

The Jedi he fought were holding back on him and he was holding back on them. He didn't even fight Grevious, he crushed his lungs.

You fail to explain him fighting Asajj, Depa, and Sora.

Originally posted by Sorgo
The Jedi he fought were holding back on him and he was holding back on them. He didn't even fight Grevious, he crushed his lungs.

And as for Asajj, Asajj is a pushover, so who cares.

And they fought for what? Like two minutes?

Asajj is about equal with ROTS Obi-wan. How do you call her a pushover? Still, you fail to mention Depa and Bulq.

Alright Mace has what? 3-4 decades of training and Dooku has 6-8 decades of training. Dooku defeated Mace before TPM and was pretty much point for point against Yoda in ATOC. Dooku would win this fight.

And Quinlan who according to you Sorgo stalemated Windu.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
I remember this. No one ever did prove how or why Mace would grow rapidly in ten to thirteen years to overcome a lightsaber and jedi master and Dooku would somehow not. And considering that Dooku is pretty uber with a lightsaber and certainly appears much better in-movie, I never did follow this line of thought. I believe Dooku trounces Mace.

Yeah, but you're assuming there was a lot of difference between Dooku and Mace to begin with. Dooku could have beaten Mace and then collapsed due to an aneurism. We only have that one line in the EU databank (which is suspect even for EU). Besides, it was also mentioned that Mace and Dooku would be a good fight.

Until this is elaborated, I'll say this is a coinflip.

I'm writing a large post on it currently. I'llpost it in a few minutes probably.

And simply because the databank says Mace was beaten by Dooku isn't conclusive either. They could have sparred 10 times and it be 5-5, but you could still word it as Mace was beaten by Dooku, because he was.

It mentioned the only two to ever beat him was Dooku and Yoda. That includes him as a 15 year old Padawan or a 10 year old youngling. That's a pretty impressive resume.

Regardless, I'm not going to say a name for sure, but to think this is a one way fight would be stupid.

Good point, Illustrious. I dunno. This is a very difficult battle, it seems. I do think, though, Dooku might just win it. If not through his impressive saber skills, perhaps through his usage of The Force, which we haven't seen much from Mace.

I dunno...

Alright. I'm ready to make the comparison.

First, let me state what I believe makes up a powerful Jedi fighter.

Training Time
Experience
Lightsaber Style
Knowledge of the Force
Mastery of a Lightsaber Form
Understanding of how to best utilize said form
Better Form for dueling
Dueling

Dooku had almost all of these over Mace the first time they fought, but this will probably not be so this time. Let me show you why.


Now, let us examen Training Time.

As of the first time they fought, Dooku had been training for 67 years. Mace had been training for 37 years. Dooku has almost double Mace's training time at this point. This is assuming, of course, that Dooku defeated Mace at the last possible moment before leaving the Order. It is more likely that they fought earlier than that, so let us go with five years before Dooku left the Order. Let me note that this is still very favorable for Dooku.

That means that the last time Dooku defeated Mace, Dooku was 63 and Mace was 33. Mace has just three years of from being doubled in training time.

Now, if we look at them as of ROTS, Dooku is 83 and Mace is 53. Dooku of course still has 30 years over Mace, but now their ages are closer proportionally.

In their first fight, Dooku had about 190% more training time. Now he has about 157% more. He still has an advantage here, but by how much?


Next, lets look at something most of you probably never considered.

Dooku believed in the Potentium. That is, for those who don't properly understand the Potentium view, he followed both the Lightside of the Force and the Dark. Potentium followers believe this is okay as long as they do not favor one side over the other. This was the reason Dooku, nor any of his students, were ever offered a seat on the Council.

So, seeing as Dooku already followed the Darkside to an extent, he didn't learn a lot under Sidious, or at least not as much as he would have normally or as much as you guys seem to believe.

Being a Jedi Master, he would have access to all of the Dark Side knowledge that the Temple held, which was a lot. They held at least one Sith Holocron, too.

Since he already knew a lot of what Sidious told him, he wouldn't have advanced as fast in this time. Lets say he only advanced a two thirds as fast as he normally would have. That gives him 73 year of training by their next fight.

That 190% that he had before is now just 138%. Just 38% more experince.

Remember, Dooku used the Dark Side even as a Jedi.


Now, lets look at experince. This is very similar to training time, except that we will weight actual events rather than regular training.

First, Dooku has done the following:
Killed a Jedi Master
Defeated a Master and Knight
Held off Yoda
Led the attack on Gilidrann
Trained six students

Mace has:
Stopped 14 Gank Killers
Killed Uda-Khalid
Was always on the top of his class
Trained two Padawans
Created his own lightsaber form
Killed Jango Fett
Led the Battle of Dantooine
Defeated a Jedi Master even with serious injuries
Survived a fist fight against Kar Vastor
Defeated Sidious


Mace seems to be a fair bit more experince by ROTS. Also, considering that Mace defeated Sidious without being extremely weak after(judging from facial expressions) he was a fair bit more powerful than Sidious.



Lightsaber Style: Dooku had a major advantage in lightsaber style when they first fought. Dooku will not have such an advantage this time.

Although it is not known exactly when Mace developed Vapaad, it was still very new when he lost to Dooku.

When Mace was 14, he still had not built a lightsaber. We know that Mace was a powerful form five user and that he had to learn Juyo before he could develop Vapaad.

If he learned both Juyo and Djem So in the time it took Obi-wan to master form three, the first time he and Dooku fought Vapaad didn't exist.

Mace also had to learn form 1.

So, Mace might have mastered Djem So and had some knowledge of form 1(cant remember the name) and Juyo, but Vapaad still didn't exist. In this fight, Mace will have finished learning Vapaad but he will also have Vapaad on his side.


Knowledge of the Force: Dooku has greater force attack skills than Mace even in ROTS. There is a major difference now though.

The first time they fought, Mace didn't have Vapaad. Vapaad was what allows Mace to withstand Sidious' force attacks. He couldn't defend as well against Dooku's force attacks before beause he didn't have Vapaad, but now he does. Sidious was more tired after his fight with Mace than Mace was(judging from expressions) showing that it uses less energy for Mace to defend with the force than it does for someone else to attack him with it.


Mastery of a Lightsaber Form: The first time they fought, Dooku has been learning Makashi for over forty years. Mace had learned some of form 1, possibly mastered Sjem So, and learned some of Juyo. Those other forms are weaker than Makashi for saber vs. saber but the same doesn't not seem so for Vapaad. Mace has also shown himself to be a very skilled duelist, adding hand and foot techniques to his lightsaber skills.


Understanding how to best utilize said lightsaber form: Dooku had an advantage here that he will not have against Mace. Mace didn't know Vapaad nor had he been in as many conflicts that required use of a saber. By the time they rematch, Mace had discovered how to fully tap Vapaad without falling to the Darkside(his time on Harun Kal had a lot to do with this.).


Better form for dueling: The first time, Dooku had an advantage in that his form was better for dueling than Djem So. It seems that Vapaad's use of a lightsaber along with it's special focus of mind would give it an advantage, if only a minor one.

Dueling Skill: It is unknown how good Dooku was at dueling as of the last time they fought, such as being able to fight without a saber and incorporate that into his form, but we do know Mace is very good at it as of ROTS. He was able to fight effectively against Kar Vaster. It seems to me the Mace is better at dueling, but there isn't enough evidence at this time prove it to anyone.

Originally posted by Lord Simus
And Quinlan who according to you Sorgo stalemated Windu.

Oh yeah! That's right!

Actually, according to the pictures on the comic, Quinlan had a saber to Windu's throat.

Gotta love it. They should call this section "Feat Wars".

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Gotta love it. They should call this section "Feat Wars".

I'd take that over "Fanboy Wars" anyday.

Is there much of a difference?

Mace has:
Stopped 14 Gank Killers
Killed Uda-Khalid
Was always on the top of his class
Trained two Padawans
Created his own lightsaber form
Killed Jango Fett
Led the Battle of Dantooine
Defeated a Jedi Master even with serious injuries
Survived a fist fight against Kar Vastor
Defeated Sidious


Akward, you failed to mention what Dooku has:
Flattened Kenobi under a platform.
Slashed Anakin's arm off.
Trained Asajj, Quinlan, Grievous and Severance Tann.
Recruited Durge and Jango as his personal representative Bounty Hunters.
Completely mastered an ancient Form of Lightsaber combat that focuses on One on One dueling.
Basically owned an Army and had that Army kill hundreds of Jedi during a deadly arena fight.
A famous and well-respected Jedi of his time.
Trained a deadly cyborg who ruthlessly killed handfuls of Jedi.
Defeated Mace Windu.
Studied the Force for over eight decades, becoming one of the most deadly practitioners of the Force in his time.
A great and masterminded Political figurehead, settled various disputes among worlds across the Galaxy.

One thing struck me... "Dooku used the dark side even as a jedi".

More Glentract supposing? You can't take a guess and call it fact, Glentract.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Mace has:
Stopped 14 Gank Killers
Killed Uda-Khalid
Was always on the top of his class
Trained two Padawans
Created his own lightsaber form
Killed Jango Fett
Led the Battle of Dantooine
Defeated a Jedi Master even with serious injuries
Survived a fist fight against Kar Vastor
Defeated Sidious


Originally posted by Sorgo
Akward, you failed to mention what Dooku has:
Actually I did mention all of these that contribute to Dooku's fighting skill or were not mutual with Mace.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Flattened Kenobi under a platform.

"Defeated a Master and Knight"

Originally posted by Sorgo
Slashed Anakin's arm off.

"Defeated a Master and Knight"

Originally posted by Sorgo
Trained Asajj, Quinlan, Grievous and Severance Tann.

I said, "Trained six students". Asajj, Quinlan, Grevious, and Severance are part of that six.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Recruited Durge and Jango as his personal representative Bounty Hunters.

I didn't feel this matters much. Notice I also didn't mention that Mace did a lot of recruting either, but he did.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Completely mastered an ancient Form of Lightsaber combat that focuses on One on One dueling.

He didn't completly master it or else he would be better with a lightsaber than anyone ever. He did master it, but Mace also mastered Sjwn So and Juyo, which I didn't mention before either.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Basically owned an Army and had that Army kill hundreds of Jedi during a deadly arena fight.

Thing is this doesn't help Dooku in a fight.

Originally posted by Sorgo
A famous and well-respected Jedi of his time.

And Mace wasn't? Notice things that they had in common were not mentioned.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Trained a deadly cyborg who ruthlessly killed handfuls of Jedi.


This fits under "Trained six students".

Originally posted by Sorgo
Defeated Mace Windu.

I did mention this. It's what the entire post is about.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Studied the Force for over eight decades, becoming one of the most deadly practitioners of the Force in his time.

This is a mutual feat.

Originally posted by Sorgo
A great and masterminded Political figurehead, settled various disputes among worlds across the Galaxy.

Mace did the same thing. Who do you think ended the Summertime War?



And Janus, no, I didn't make up Dooku being a Pontentium user. It was mentioned in a book a while back. I'll find the source later. In otherwords, Dooku believed in the Unifying Force.

Originally posted by Deus Ex
Gotta love it. They should call this section "Feat Wars".

What do you suppose we compare instead of feats?

You might want to compare the bullshit you posted on the other thread about ROTJ Luke with fallacies. You might find a lot of similarities.

Stopped 14 Gank Killers

This wouldn't up his Saber skills. Unless Dooku uses a gun during their fight.

Killed Uda-Khalid

A crime lord? Okay then, Glentract.

Was always on the top of his class

Irrelevant. Proof?

Trained two Padawans

The two that fell to the darkside and died?

Created his own lightsaber form

With help. Don't forget that! Plus, he built it on another form. Don't forget that!

Killed Jango Fett

And again: This wouldn't up his Saber skills. Unless Dooku uses a gun during their fight.

Led the Battle of Dantooine

That's...That's real nice, Glentract.


Defeated a Jedi Master even with serious injuries

Serious injuries from what, Glentract? You failed to mention that part.

Survived a fist fight against Kar Vastor

He barely survived that fist fight!

Defeated Sidious

And got shocked out of a window.

Originally posted by Sorgo
This wouldn't up his Saber skills. Unless Dooku uses a gun during their fight.

Was meant to show he was a respected Jedi. Respected Jedi are commonly powerful ones.

Originally posted by Sorgo
A crime lord? Okay then, Glentract.

The point was that he was able to kill him before he had built a lightsaber. I thought Uda was a murderer, but in anycase, how many padawans are strong enough to kill a crime lord without a lightsaber?

Originally posted by Sorgo
Irrelevant. Proof?

He was the second best of the Order. How is that irrelevant? It was mentioned in several places.

Originally posted by Sorgo
The two that fell to the darkside and died?

Excuse me, but Echuu never fell to the Darkside and survived the Purge.

Originally posted by Sorgo
With help. Don't forget that! Plus, he built it on another form. Don't forget that!

True. He invented the mental aspect of it though, basing it off of his Shatterpoint ability. Sora just helped him mix the mental and physical aspects.

Originally posted by Sorgo
And again: This wouldn't up his Saber skills. Unless Dooku uses a gun during their fight.

It shows prowless with a saber.

Originally posted by Sorgo
That's...That's real nice, Glentract.

You didn't have much of a problem when I mentioned Dooku leading the Battle of Gilidrann.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Serious injuries from what, Glentract? You failed to mention that part.

From fighting in the Summertime War.

Originally posted by Sorgo
He barely survived that fist fight!

The fact that he survived at all shines brightly for him.

Originally posted by Sorgo
And got shocked out of a window.

Reguardless he put Sidious on his ass.

B]Was meant to show he was a respected Jedi. Respected Jedi are commonly powerful ones.

That is a pathetic stereotype. I am sure Kit Fisto was respected, but he got punked.



The point was that he was able to kill him before he had built a lightsaber. I thought Uda was a murderer, but in anycase, how many padawans are strong enough to kill a crime lord without a lightsaber?

Uda was physically weak and incredibly cowardly. All Mace had to do was sneak in and finish him off.



He was the second best of the Order. How is that irrelevant? It was mentioned in several places.

Second best? Who told you that? The Movies? The Books? I haven't heard that nowhere!



Excuse me, but Echuu never fell to the Darkside and survived the Purge.

Echuu virtually didn't survive the purge. He was quickly killed by Darth Vader after the Purge. Decapitated, to be exact.



True. He invented the mental aspect of it though, basing it off of his Shatterpoint ability. Sora just helped him mix the mental and physical aspects.

If not for Sora or Depa, the form wouldn't be as good. They made it together. Don't put it all on him, because that is virtually ridiculous.



It shows prowless with a saber.

Not at all. Not with LS to LS.



You didn't have much of a problem when I mentioned Dooku leading the Battle of Gilidrann.

I don't have a problem here either. I said it was great. Don't make assumptions.




From fighting in the Summertime War.

Exactly, and he sustained heavy injury, which shows his skills are... Kinda shippy.... Sure, you are supposed to recieve injuries, but he is lucky he survived.


The fact that he survived at all shines brightly for him.

He *BARELY* survived.



Reguardless he put Sidious on his ass.

True, and I give him props for that, but who says Dooku couldn't put Sidious or Mace on their asses?

Originally posted by Sorgo
Uda was physically weak and incredibly cowardly. All Mace had to do was sneak in and finish him off.

Yeah sure. I mean we all know how easy it is to infiltrate a crime syndicate.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Second best? Who told you that? The Movies? The Books? I haven't heard that nowhere!

Starwars.com says that the only two who ever bested him was Dooku and Yoda. Dooku left the Order, so Mace is second.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Echuu virtually didn't survive the purge. He was quickly killed by Darth Vader after the Purge. Decapitated, to be exact.

He survived it for almost 20 years. Echuu led an assault on an Imperial Base after the Purge. He didn't not survive it. He did fight Vader, but where was it ever said that Vader killed him quickly or decapitated him? Proof please.

Originally posted by Sorgo
If not for Sora or Depa, the form wouldn't be as good. They made it together. Don't put it all on him, because that is virtually ridiculous.

Depa had no part in making the form. Sora helped incorporate the physical aspect. Mace is the one who is credited to making it, implying that Mace did most of the work.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Not at all. Not with LS to LS.

Whatever you say.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Exactly, and he sustained heavy injury, which shows his skills are... Kinda shippy.... Sure, you are supposed to recieve injuries, but he is lucky he survived.

He wasn't close to death until he fought Depa and even still he wasn't in a ton of danger of dying.

Originally posted by Sorgo
He *BARELY* survived.

No. He was injured, but he was far from dying.

True, and I give him props for that, but who says Dooku couldn't put Sidious or Mace on their asses?

The burden would of proof would lie on you to show that.

Wow Glentract. With all this Dooku would win going around here I actually changed my mind from Mace would beat Dooku to unknown but you changed my mind right back. I now have no doubt that Mace would win.

Yeah sure. I mean we all know how easy it is to infiltrate a crime syndicate.

Exactly.



Starwars.com says that the only two who ever bested him was Dooku and Yoda. Dooku left the Order, so Mace is second.

Dooku Bested him. Hear that?



He survived it for almost 20 years. Echuu led an assault on an Imperial Base after the Purge. He didn't not survive it. He did fight Vader, but where was it ever said that Vader killed him quickly or decapitated him? Proof please.

It was in some book. Search the net. Echuu was decapitated. By the way, Dooku had Quinlan as an apprentice and he survived the Purge without dying and Asajj potentially survived the purge. I don't think so, though. She probably died from that lame ass fall.



Depa had no part in making the form. Sora helped incorporate the physical aspect. Mace is the one who is credited to making it, implying that Mace did most of the work.

Sora had turned to the dark side. Mace would not credit a Dark Jedi/Sith.



Whatever you say.

Exactly.



He wasn't close to death until he fought Depa and even still he wasn't in a ton of danger of dying.

He was close to death.



No. He was injured, but he was far from dying.

Kar nearly killed him.



The burden would of proof would lie on you to show that.


Dooku has an easier chance of defeating Mace!

A) Dooku has beaten Mace before. Dooku and Mace BOTH gained considerable experience since then.
B) Dooku was one of the only other Jedi to Best Mace Windu.
C) Mace has alot of restrictions on his Lightsaber form, considering Dark side energies are used to fuel some of the moves. The form revolves around using the Dark side, so Mace must control it properly. The form ate Sora and Depa alive.
D) Dooku uses a form BASED ON DUELING AND LIGHTSABER TO LIGHTSABER COMBAT! Mace's is not a Form for dueling, but a mix between dueling and dodging laser shots. Dooku's form is a SOLID Dueling form in which he has COMPLETELY mastered to the highest degree.
E) Dooku's force is so strong, numerous people have argued it to be Sidious' level, or even beyond. From what we have seen with Mace, he has used a few force pushes and doesn't use the Force much, maybe because he isn't good with it.

Dooku's force is so strong, numerous people have argued it to be Sidious' level, or even beyond.

Yeah? Oh yeah? Well numerous people have argued that Plo Kloon would pwn all. schmoll

Originally posted by overlord
Dooku's force is so strong, numerous people have argued it to be Sidious' level, or even beyond.

Yeah? Oh yeah? Well numerous people have argued that Plo Kloon would pwn all. schmoll


People argue alot of things, Overlord.

You're back!

Originally posted by overlord
You're back!

I could never leave.

I must defend these Forums against the never ending Flood of newbs.


Tis me destiny.

Originally posted by Sorgo
I could never leave.

I must defend these Forums against the never ending Flood of newbs.


Tis me destiny.

This weeks KMC features:
Episode I: The newb menace
Episode II: Attack of the socks
Episode III: Revenge of the Sorgo
Episode IV: A new hope for the SW versus forum
Episode V: The newb empire strikes back
Episode VI: The Return of the NJO

Originally posted by Borbarad
This weeks KMC features:
Episode I: The newb menace
Episode II: Attack of the socks
Episode III: Revenge of the Sorgo
Episode IV: A new hope for the SW versus forum
Episode V: The newb empire strikes back
Episode VI: The Return of the NJO

lmao!

*Just began reading this thread and saw Sorgo's post*

Originally posted by Sorgo
Created his own lightsaber form

With help. Don't forget that! Plus, he built it on another form. Don't forget that!

But Dooku never created one, EVER!

Originally posted by Sorgo
Defeated Sidious

And got shocked out of a window.

Which probably would've happened to anyone who just had their dominant hand chopped off by someone they trusted and was standing over Sidious next to an open window miles above the surface of Coruscant.

Originally posted by Borbarad
This weeks KMC features:
Episode I: The newb menace
Episode II: Attack of the socks
Episode III: Revenge of the Sorgo
Episode IV: A new hope for the SW versus forum
Episode V: The newb empire strikes back
Episode VI: The Return of the NJO

I think someone's trying to make quotes for my profile.

*Steals this one*

Dooku could beat Mace Windu.
Just because Mace created his own form (with help) doesn't mean anything. Dooku perfected one of the most difficult forms of all that requires much focus and incase you haven't realized, Jedis hardly use the force in duels but the sith always have.
Maul: Force pushed Obi into the hole
Dooku: Force lighting
Dooku: Force chocked Obi and then threw him across the room and even used force push
Sidious: Lighting
Sidious: Lighting and throwing giant pods
Vader: Throwin debris at Luke
Vader: Lightsaber Throw

Originally posted by ESB- 1138
Dooku could beat Mace Windu.
Just because Mace created his own form (with help) doesn't mean anything. Dooku perfected one of the most difficult forms of all that requires much focus and incase you haven't realized, Jedis hardly use the force in duels but the sith always have.

Mace had to have knowledge of both Sjem So and Makashi to learn Juyo. After mastering Juyo he created Vapaad. Mace is a fair bit higher than Dooku in lightsaber mastery.

Originally posted by ESB- 1138
Maul: Force pushed Obi into the hole
Dooku: Force lighting
Dooku: Force chocked Obi and then threw him across the room and even used force push
Sidious: Lighting
Sidious: Lighting and throwing giant pods
Vader: Throwin debris at Luke
Vader: Lightsaber Throw

Not true that only Sith use the force in fights.
Obi-wan: Call lightsaber to him
Qui-gon: Force pushing droids
Yoda: Block lightning
Obi-wan: Block lightning
Kit: Force push droids
Luke: Choke Gamorreans
Yoda: Force Push Sidious
Yoda: Throw Guards against the wall
Yoda: Throwing a Pod back at Sidious
Obi-wan: Force Pushing Anakin/Vader
Mace: Crushing GG's lungs
Obi-wan: Force Push GG

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract

Not true that only Sith use the force in fights.
Obi-wan: Call lightsaber to him
Qui-gon: Force pushing droids
Yoda: Block lightning
Obi-wan: Block lightning
Kit: Force push droids
Luke: Choke Gamorreans
Yoda: Force Push Sidious
Yoda: Throw Guards against the wall
Yoda: Throwing a Pod back at Sidious
Obi-wan: Force Pushing Anakin/Vader
Mace: Crushing GG's lungs
Obi-wan: Force Push GG

Almost every single Jedi: Propelling themselves higher than a normal jump (Force Jump)
Almost every single Jedi: Using the Force to aid their reflexes
Yoda: Aiding his strength (he needs his cane otherwise)

Jedi hardly ever use offensive force moves. Let me put it like that.

*Just began reading this thread and saw Sorgo's post*


But Dooku never created one, EVER!

Oh, I apologized.... He completely mastered an Ancient Dueling Form, which could have been possibly used by some KOTOR Era characters or Sith Lords before that.


Which probably would've happened to anyone who just had their dominant hand chopped off by someone they trusted and was standing over Sidious next to an open window miles above the surface of Coruscant.

Mace trusted Anakin? GO AWAY! NOW!

Mace had to have knowledge of both Sjem So and Makashi to learn Juyo. After mastering Juyo he created Vapaad. Mace is a fair bit higher than Dooku in lightsaber mastery.


I want proof that he had to have knowledge of that to make the Form he did. PERFECT proof. And even if he did, What makes you think he automatically masters Dooku? Because he made his own Form? Please! That's ridiculous! All Theory.

Originally posted by ESB- 1138
Jedi hardly ever use offensive force moves. Let me put it like that.

Did you read what I posted?

"Qui-gon: Force pushing droids
Kit: Force push droids
Yoda: Force Push Sidious
Yoda: Throw Guards against the wall
Yoda: Throwing a Pod back at Sidious
Obi-wan: Force Pushing Anakin/Vader
Mace: Crushing GG's lungs
Obi-wan: Force Push GG
Luke: Choke Gamorreans"

Originally posted by ESB- 1138
Jedi hardly ever use offensive force moves. Let me put it like that.

"The Jedi are Guardians of the Peace. Not soldiers."

- Mace Windu

The Jedi don't use their Force powers offensively unless they are in the most dire of situations. It's against their code, against the ideals for which they have fought 25,000 years to uphold. But as is visible in their duels, when the Jedi use their powers in such a manner, the effects are devastating. Kenobi hurled Grievous several dozen feet through the air with a single Force push, and it was that attack, (which smashed a wall), that caused the General to flee. When Yoda used his 'quick-draw' Push, he tossed Sidious across the room. When the Red Guards attempted to sieze him, he carelessly waved his hand, and knocked the Emperor's best senseless. In his greatest display of power, he caught Sidious' own lightning at point-blank range, and condensed into an energy-filled orb, something we've never seen in either EU or the movies before. The purple sphere literally exploded, hurling a fully grown man over the edge of a pod, from one side to the other. Need I say more?

dooku wins. hes done it before according to the official site. lucas said the dark side is stronger but is destined to always be at odds with itself becuase of the apprentice kills master thing and the quest for power. so dooku is more powerful now that hes sith than when he faught mace.

dooku is supposedly one of the greates duelers around, and gillard said the difference between a level 8 and a level 9 in saber skill is the dark side, meaning the dark side gives you an edge as long as you dont let it turn you into an arrogant power hungry madman like anakin. dooku always had alot more self control. so presumably dookus saber skill is at the same level or higher than when he was a jedi.

mace made his own style. or rather completed one that was already around. that doesnt really mean that much. i could create my own style, it would suck, but id still have created it. doesnt mean im an awesome swordsman. dooku perfected the saber to saber style of combat. meaning against an army of droids mace might have an advantage, but saber to saber dooku had the edge again. dooku fights with enough self control that it wouldnt be massive amounts of offencive darkside energy for maces style to counter. it would just be dooku using it to enhance his own abilities rather than him attacking mace directly witht he dark side like sidious. (all that is eu anyway so doesnt really count)

so in the end, dooku has every advantage over mace. hes older, but sidious is old, yoda is old, it doesnt mean that much. hes just had more time to perfect his force powers. he has all his jedi training, he has new sith powers, hes the master at saber to saber and hes beaten mace before. dooku wins. (man i hate mace)

(all that is eu anyway so doesnt really count)

Notice that this is an EU forum? Didn't think so.

I'll pick apart whatever else of your, er, 'argument', Janus or Nai don't get to first.

ok, so its eu and does count. i think the vs forum is a bit of both seeing that there is no straight cannon vs forum. i dont mind arguing eu but at the end of the day cannons more important.

Originally posted by Decay
ok, so its eu and does count. i think the vs forum is a bit of both seeing that there is no straight cannon vs forum. i dont mind arguing eu but at the end of the day cannons more important.

Wow. Go to google and search "star wars canon policy" and you should see the official canon policy when it comes to Star Wars. It's different than most other things. In anycase, your typing is lacking.

Originally posted by Sorgo
Mace trusted Anakin? GO AWAY! NOW!

Mace said before he went off to fight Sidious that Anakin had gained his trust for telling him about Palpatine. Just go watch the movie again and you'll hear the quote.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
In his greatest display of power, he caught Sidious' own lightning at point-blank range, and condensed into an energy-filled orb, something we've never seen in either EU or the movies before.

We didn't see it at point blank range, but Yoda did almost the same against Dooku in AotC. The main difference is instead of the orb of energy exploding, Yoda shot lightning right back at Dooku.

Originally posted by KingDubya
Mace said before he went off to fight Sidious that Anakin had gained his trust for telling him about Palpatine. Just go watch the movie again and you'll hear the quote.


Actually I think he said that if he was right he would have gained his trust. And some seconds later he told Anakin to stay out of there because of his messed up feelings which I think is a clear sign that he didn't trust him in this matter.

Originally posted by KingDubya
Mace said before he went off to fight Sidious that Anakin had gained his trust for telling him about Palpatine. Just go watch the movie again and you'll hear the quote.

No, he says If what you've told me is true, then you will have gained my trust.

Originally posted by KingDubya
We didn't see it at point blank range, but Yoda did almost the same against Dooku in AotC. The main difference is instead of the orb of energy exploding, Yoda shot lightning right back at Dooku.

Your point? Its the same ability, but a lesser demonstration of it.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
No, he says If what you've told me is true, then you will have gained my trust.
Then I take back what I said about him trusting Anakin.
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
Your point? Its the same ability, but a lesser demonstration of it.
You said, "something we've never seen in either EU or the movies before." I proved you wrong on that account.

I'll pretend I didn't see the ignorance in that post.