Tournament Round #2

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ScarletSpider
It is now time for Round #2. Close for much of the battle, seemingly overnight Scroobless' vote inflated and he defeated the noble Crazyspinz 10 to 5.

Now it is Khellendros vs. Quick Freeze

Khellendros:
- Mr. Majestic
- Dragon Man
- Black Bolt
- Jack Hawksmoor
- Jenny Sparks
- Midnighter
- Daredevil

Quick Freeze:
- Superman
- Spawn
- Hellboy
- Dark Claw
- Spider-Man
- Nightwing
- Voodoo

Scoobless
there's no "R" in Scoobless man............ ok when these guys start i'd like to find out who Mr. Majestic, Jack Hawksmoor, Jenny Sparks and Voodoo are ...... and a little more clarification on midnighter and Hellboy .................. and Spawn lol ............. ok, pretty much everyone

Khellendros
Wow, I didn't think our turn would be up so soon. Oh well, good thing I had most of this written up already.


----
Here's what I see happening. Majestic spends his three hours prep time reviewing what everyone knows about their opponents and getting to know his teams' powers. Jenny also befriends the rather slow-witted artificial lifeform Dragon Man. Majestic knowns no one else but he can take on Superman, so he tells them he will take supes while Jenny is left to direct the rest of the forces. Since many of the opponents are unknowns, Jenny tells the team she'll take on the demon with the big hand and Dragon Man will take the guy in a mask and cape wearing chains.

As soon as the fight starts, Majestic slams full force and full speed into Superman, using the full force of his strength to draw them both up and away from the battlefield. Hawksmoor sinks into the street immediately. Since they are fighting among low buildings Dark Claw, Nightwing and Spiderman are all basically grounded.

Meanwhile, Dragon Man flies at Spawn with animalistic ferocity, and though he's class 100 and has a tougher hide than the Thing, he and Spawn still go at it for a while, trading blows and energy blasts/fire breath. At the same time, Jenny runs up to Hellboy. He starts to take a swing at her when Jenny turns to her pure energy form and electrocutes him. She isn't sure if it will work, but she knows she's harder to hurt in that form. Since Hellboy CAN be hurt by the electricity it takes to power only one large building, he spasms and goes down under enough voltage to bring down a fleet of alien ships.

Midnighter flings some shuriken at Grifter just to get his attention and runs off between the houses while Daredevil, who has been tracking Nightwing, attacks, dodging almost every punch and kick Nightwing can throw at him. Blackbolt, meanwhile, stands there calmly while Spider Man and Dark claw both run at him. Just before they reach him, Hawksmoor liquefies the street under and all around them so that both fall in to their shoulders and instantly solidifies it around them. Black Bolt leans down and whispers at them, knocking both of them out. Midnighter is waiting in the shadows for Grifter, throws more shuriken at him and disables his guns. The two fight, and although Grifter uses his TK to slam Midnighter all over, he gets tired quickly. Midnighter staggers to his feet, lunges in faster than the human eye can follow and caves in grifters skull with his staff.

So, Black Bolt is fresh. Hawksmoor is still safe underground. Midnighter is battered but walking. Jenny is tired, but draws in power from the power grid to recharge. Daredevil and Nightwing are still going at it, so Jenny takes Nightwing out with a lightning bolt. They look for Dragon Man and Majestic, but neither can be seen. Just then, Dragon Man roars in pain and falls to the ground, badly beaten and unable to move. Spawn comes down like a force of nature. He takes Daredevil and Midnighter out of the game with blasts of energy. Jenny converts to electricity just before she can get hit, and Black Bolt tells him to stop in normal speaking tone. As soon as the blast from BB's voice hits Spawn, Jenny empties the rest of the power grid's electricity into him, angry that he hurt the childlike Dragon Man.

Up above, Superman and Majestic trade super speed blows that would have demolished the buildings below by now if they had fought on the street. Unfortunately for Superman, Majestic is a cold and calculating warrior with thousands of years experience killing his enemies. Add to that the fact that his power level is closer to pre-crisis supes, and Superman goes down. Majestic flies back to check on his team, and sees Black Bolt and Jenny hitting Spawn with everything they can. Majestic joins the fight, and eventually Spawn goes down from Black Bolt's speaking voice, Majestic's sheer physical power, and Jenny's lightning combined with expending too much of his own power.

Khellendros
BTW, Scarlet told me this would be taking place in some suburbs, hence me saying there are only low lying buildings around.

ScarletSpider
Sorry about that, man. I'll rectify that in future dealings.

norrin radd

Khellendros
Scarlet said i had to tone blackbolt down. I assumed that meant no screaming. If you notice, I say he only whispers and speaks normally. He never once uses his full scream.

Scoobless
first off......... who is "grifter"? i didn't see his name posted on the team sheet at the top secondly, could someone please address my earlier question about who half these guys are......... maybe give me a site to check out
spider-man's spidey sense would make it easy for him to avoid such a simple trap
ok, now i want the other guys scenario

Khellendros
Oh well damnit, I was using an old version of QF's team. Meh, just replace Voodoo with Grifter and ignore the comment about the guns. She's a psi, right?

EDIT: ill post bios for as many characters as i can find.

Superman you better know. Majesitc is basically Superman but with pre-crisis level powers.

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/h/hawkmoor.htm
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/m/midnghtr.htm
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/j/jsparks.htm
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/v/voodoo.htm (no daemonite form)
http://www.dcuguide.com/Who/Nightwing_Bio.php
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/terrigenmist/BlackBolt.html
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/s/spawn.htm

norrin radd

Khellendros
O_o

He is able to speak, he just has trained himself not to. All forms of his speech carry some power, the louder his voice is, the more power it carries. Read the bio I posted.

EDIT: One more bio.
http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/d/dragonman.htm

norrin radd

norrin radd

Khellendros
Oh, well, maybe I'm wrong. I know they said no daemonite form, I don't remember about the psi powers though.

norrin radd

Krissy Von Doom
Psylocke was disallowed on Spiderman level however I think if the character was allowed in the draft, as Voodoo was, it should be valid now.

ScarletSpider
I never said Psylocke wasn't allowed. Maybe there was some miscommunication, and if you want to put her on your team in place of someone else, you may Krissy.

No speaking for Black Bolt, or Whispers, because even those can destroy cities.

No psy for Voodoo or Grifter.

The battle takes place in...Portland, Maine. Big enough to be considered a "city", and thus keep Hawksmoor healthy, but small enough where it doesn't give him an unfair advantage and power up over the other fighters.

Khellendros
Whaaat?? You said WATER DOWN his voice. His whisper barely even rocks a battleship. It would take a full blown scream to destroy a whole city.

crazyspinz
i dontn know who majestic is so i cant realy comment on him vs supes, but they seem similar,

Quick Freeze
ok ok. kell has a whole bunch of wildstorm characters, luckily i know a little about them. and mr. majestic can beat superman embarrasment , i know who he is. but anything that black bolt does will totally mess up dragon man. he's sensitive to noise if i remember correctly. and kell was right the first time, I SWITCHED VOODOO WITH GRIFTER RIGHT BEFORE DRAFTS ENDED. and i think even if grifter was alowed to use telekenisis he wouldn't use it very much, as i said in the drafts, it weekens him. and since spider-man has beaten electro and shocker on many occasions theres no reason for him not to beat sparks. i didn't know the fight would be so soon so i'll be back with more later. this is a great match.

Khellendros
Well, Black Bolts voice is called quasi-sonic. It's not really the sound that does the damage so much as it is the energy created by the speech centers of his brain. But, just in case it was successfully argued that way, I sent Dragon Man off to fight Spawn while BB only whispered to minimize the damage done. Spider Man dodging Electro is interesting, because it depends on how Jenny uses her power. If she creates a negative charge in her target, that would attract the electrons from a lightning bolt, meaning it wouldnt matter where they ran. If it's just aim and shoot, like Electro, then he would have a chance if he could move faster than she can aim. I haven't read anything that answers this question, so I guess its up to voting and debating to decide.

Quick Freeze
there were some spelling errors i wanted to correct in the next post and it posted one before i realized so just ignore this

Quick Freeze
and i believe sparks would be busy with the opponants on her level. how would she know to attack hellboy right away. technically any of the heros can use a power on another and it might defeat them but you have to take into account that the other side is actually fighting. thats why its a team match up. hellboy is as durable as the hulk, posses healing powers like woverine, the hand of doom is as powerful as the thing (stronger than black bolt), he has an arsonal as big as the punisher's but as cool as james bond's, he has a mind like batman, and he jumps much like the hulk as well. another attribute of his is that fire makes him stronger. if necissary, spawn can basically "reboost" him every once in a while if he's not too busy with his own thing. and i change my mind about supes and majestic. they have pretty much the same powers. i dont see how one can prevail over the other. and dark claw could totally take on hawksmore. hawksmore is a great fighter with great durability, dark claw is woverine AND batman, nuff said. as for daredevil and midnighter vs nightwing and grifter, there's not muchto talk about. they all have pretty much the same abilities and its hard to prove who is better. and spawn can take out dragonman pretty quickly. dragon man is a lot like the demons spawn fights regularly

Khellendros
WOW. You are giving Hellboy WAY too much credit, for one thing. His hand is strong, sure, but it's not as strong as the Thing. AS durable as the Hulk?? What? He can take a beating, but he is no Hulk, sir. Mind like Batman? That's just... I almost don't want to comment on that. I love Hellboy, have read everything I could get my hands on, but he is NOT close to Bruce Wayne in the intelligence area. Jump high as the Hulk? Show me ONE TIME he has demonstrated that. He heals fast, but not like Wolverine. It just seems that way because he's really hard to hurt in the first place and even harder to kill. His arsenal consists of one large gun with lots of bullets, and a bunch of magical talismans and stuff. Fire doesn't make him stronger, it just can't hurt him.

Jenny would take Hellboy on because she knows she has the best chance of surviving a fight with an unknown in her pure energy form. And there is precedent that Hellboy can be knocked down by a lot less voltage than she can bring to bear. She'd sic Dragon Man on Spawn, knowing he's a big brawny powerhouse, also good for taking on an unknown. If you notice, I know DM can't beat Spawn, but he could keep him busy. DM is class 100, he is literally tougher than the Thing in both impact resistance and resistance to temperature. He can eat anything and turn it into fuel (except flesh, which he hasn't tried yet). And he breathes fire! I know that's not useful against Spawn, but it's just cool!

It's my opinion that Majestic is stronger, but whatever. The fact is, in battle he is cold, calculating, and does not hesitate to put down an enemy at all costs. And, he has thousands of years of battle experience. Ruthlessness will always make the difference when two fighters are evenly matched.

Dark Claw could take on Hawksmoor? Maybe. They are matched on speed, with Jack maybe getting a slight edge. Jack is stronger (10-15 tons it was decided in the drafting thread), and incredibly hard to injure (how often have you seen him even bloody in Authority?). DC would have the advantage with his healing, but they would be even on sheer ferocity. The first time DC tried to use a gadget, though, Hawksmoor would just be like screw this and phase him into the concrete.

Midnighter can move, in short bursts, faster than the human eye can follow. He can see every advatage his opponent has, and find the easiest way to take him down. He heals fast and has redundant bodily systems (like a backup heart). Daredevil was trained by the same man who trained Elektra. He can dodge bullets. 'Nuff said.

Nightwing is an exceptional acrobat, who was trained under Batman, but he isn;t as good a fighter as Batman. He carries a couple Escrima fighting sticks, which makes me think it would be cool to see him go up against DD with his billy clubs. You are right, though, they are very evenly matched. DD has a slight edge with his enhanced senses and radar sense. Man, it would be fun to get into their different fighting styles, but I won't bother right now.

Grifter was trained in the fighting art of Coda by Zealot, so we can assume he's somewhat pimp in hand-to-hand. Other than that, though, he's a human with guns and good aim. Midnighter has advantages in speed, strength and tactics.

Spawn is the only one on your team no one on mine has a clear advantage over. But, I'm sorry, I can't see him standing up to combined might of those of mine who survive fights with the rest of your team.

ScarletSpider
Alright, so he can whisper or hiccup, which, for this tournament, will carry the force of an level 80 blow, but with a wider area of effect.

Scoobless
what kind of range does this 80 level blow carry over? i take it it weakens with distance....... how far is absolute safe zone for a regular human? does it only affect those in front of him or all around? will it smack his own team mates down if they're above or behind him?

norrin radd

Khellendros
Well, in my strategy, he was fighting alongside someone who was pure electricity and someone who who is at LEASt as strong as Superman. So, even if he did accidentally catch one of them, it wouldn't do much good. I'm really not sure how far it carries over though. Anyways, his scream isn't his only weapon. He can amp himself up to level 60 strength and super speed, create forcefields and generate blasts of energy.

ScarletSpider
He's encountered enough of human culture to have a small immunity, and Inhumans take specialized drugs to give them an immunization to human germs and pollution.

Scoobless
i know about BB's other abilities cos i looked up a bio, and i know about his scream under normal situations but i'm talking about just for the tourney, maybe the moderator can help out by defining the "watered down" scream limits as per my earlier questions..... obviously i'm asking more about the effect he'll have on the more succeptable as well as whatever impact it could have on superman

Khellendros
Well, look back and you'll see he allowed whispering and hiccuping. Since a hiccup is about as loud as normal speaking voice, I assume this means he can use his speaking voice for very short bursts. IT carries an impact equivalent to a level 80 blow, but the energy itself is destructive. I would assume this to mean any matter that can't withstand a full strength punch from a level 80 character would be badly damaged. I don't see this doing any permanent damage to Superman, but I think most other characters on Quick Freeze's team would be in trouble. I'll let Scarlet decide how much are is effected by each whisper without comment.

ScarletSpider
3 characters are affected per whisper. By hiccup, I meant no sustained sounds, so quick bursts. So he can whisper a few words here and there, but no full sentences or monologues. It can't surpass an 80 level punch damage, and every 100 feet it loses part of it's strength. 100 feet away it's the equivalent of 60 level, 200 is 40 level, etc.

Quick Freeze
just because hawksmore is stronger than dark claw doesnt mean much. we're talking about the fighting skills and intellignece of batman (who btw is very very quick with his gadgets) which has defeated beings much more powerful and stronger than he (including the JLA) and the strength, ruthlessness, healing power, etc etc etc of wolverine who has come close to defeating the hulk. now he can help nightwing and grifter with dd and midnighter. as for dragon man, i know he can breath fire, but is he fire-proof? and from what i know about him he is easily distracted and could be lead to his own demise, something spawn is capable of doing to something with the intelligence of a dog

Khellendros
What is Spawn going to do to distract a class 100 character punching him in the face?? Don't tell me Dark Claw is more ruthless than Hawksmoor. This is a man who has torn the head off of an enemy and told a teammate he planned to beat the guy's friends to death with it. He can walk through walls without pause and can phase into the streets, letting the buildings around him act as his eyes. Dark Claw won't be helping anyone out when he's busy getting his ass handed to him by a guy who is stong as Spiderman and has no qualms tearing his arms off.

Dragon Man can resists temperatures above 1000 degrees farenheit. Spawn has no guns that can pierce DMs hide and will have to resort to using his powers. If the Thing can stand up to the Hulk's punches, then Dragon Man can stand up to any physical attack Spawn throws at him, meanwhile pounding on him with arms that can lift over 100 tons and a tail that can shatter three feet of stone wall.

In the end, though, none of that matters. The fact is, my everyman WILL beat yours. You even admitted it yourself at first and then changed your mind when you realized that meant you were basically forfeiting your match. So, even if the rest of my team is defeated, I still have Jenny Sparks who in pure energy form can't be hurt by your team, I have Majestic who is stronger and more ruthless than Superman and I have Black Bolt whose forcefields can stand up to anything your team can do to him.

Quick Freeze
we actually haven't specified the limitations to spawn's powers. . .

Khellendros
Well, you specified both Spawn and Hellboy this way:

"Spawn (in earlier issues) and Hellboy (cant go crazy)"

So, one assumes earlier issues means gun-toting, power limited Spawn.

Scoobless
how much of a pounding can black bolts force field take?

Khellendros
It says it can withstand an MX rocket going at full speed. I looked up MX rockets and this is what I found:

"Peacekeeper missile also called MX, U.S. intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) that entered service in 1986.Under development from 1971, the MX (for "missile experimental"wink evolved into a 71-foot (22-metre) ICBM with a "bus," or fourth stage, located in its front end that carried 10 or 12 independently targetable thermonuclear warheads."

Primary function: Intercontinental ballistic missile
Length: 71 feet (21.8 meters)
Weight: 198,000 pounds (87,750 kilograms) including re-entry vehicles
Diameter: 7 feet, 8 inches (2.3 meters)
Range: Greater than 6,000 miles (5,217 nautical miles)
Speed: Approximately 15,000 miles per hour at burnout (Mach 20 at sea level)

Lord-of-Dreams
Quickfreeze all the way!!!!

Yo, nightwing don't have to worry about the dumbdevil. Blackbolt screams, Devil down. But nightwing has earplugs so... I doubt if Bolt will wanna scream.
I apologise if this has already been said. I didn't read all the posts...

Khellendros
Maybe you should have before posting. You would have seen that I have three characters no one on his team can touch.

Lord-of-Dreams
Oh, should I?? Are you sure? So what did I apologise for???
I did read the characters list. I just didn't read the second page. Anyway, I don't know youre guys. But still... go Supes/Spawn!!

Khellendros
Can the two people who just voted for Quick Freeze say why they voted that way? I've got the stronger team, better arguments... I just want to know what people are basing this on.

Quick Freeze
the only reason why you might have better arguments is because i dont know that much about wildstorm. i dont read wildstorm comics. and i think people are voting for me because they know my team better. they know my heros' track record. they've read the stories where superman and spider-man and batman and wolverine win against impossible odds and "people they can't touch." why shouldnt they vote for my team? your team is a bunch of heros with powers any schmo could have come up with that might as well be my heros' common villans. people here know that batman single handedly took out the entire jla, so combined with all of wolverine's powers, why cant he take out anyone else? did hawksmore ever do something like that? if he did, give an example. no one will know what you are talking about. i can give so many instances where my heros should have died but still came out victorious. why not this time? why not against this group that includes "3 heros i cant touch"?
i mean i could still keep pulling scenerios out of my ass like spidey's webbing is lightening proof (which is true, he made gloves out of his webbing to hit electro) so he could make a websuit for hellboy with his advanced webbing skills, but i think that no matter whats stats are thrown around in this tournament, my team can win.

. . . unless i'm fighting a hardcore telepath. . . then i might have a problem. . . .

Khellendros
Oh please, Batman took out the entire JLA because he had ungodly amounts of prep time spent earning their trust. We're talking about three hours of prep time here against enemies he knows next to nothing about.



The Authority #16. Every major city in the world is under attack, so each member of the team has to split up and defend whole cities by themselves. Hawsmoor goes to France and takes out an entire fighting force by himself. Midnighter does the same thing, taking on a group of characters that are basically Wildstorms versions of the x-men and x-factor.



Same here. The Authority walked into the country of Gammora, fougth and army of soldiers who basically had copies of superman's powers, and won. Jenny Sparks has enough power to take out a FLEET of alien battle ships. Majestic has fought wars for thousands of years. My team is better than yours, and their powers can exploit weaknesses on your team.

Spidey could make a suit of webbing for Hellboy? Jenny could jump inside his mouth, since he still needs to breathe. I don't care how smart or resourceful he is, Dark Claw can't do anything when he's sunk up to his shoulders in concrete. Spawn, as powerful as he is, will die if he uses too much power.

You have yet to name a scenario in which your team can beat mine. I layed out an entire strategy, exploited weaknesses, allowed for wins on your side, and still came out on top. You have yet to do the same.

Quick Freeze
you asked why people were voting for me and then i told you. and you've just done nothing but prove me right

Corlock Striker
Well, if Majestic is as ruthless and has millenia of experience under his belt, and has all the powers of Superman, I can see him taking out Spawn easy. Sure they have trouble taking out Spawn for a while, but then Majestic with thousands of years of experience, and the knowledge that if you can't kill something, but haven't decapitated it yet, try it. Would take off Spawns head with heat vision in a matter of seconds, or just rip it off with his bare hands. Bye bye Spawn as decapitation truly kills him.

Dare Devil takes out Nightwing. I don't care how good Dick Grayson is, Dare Devil has skills that are just as good, plus enhanced senses and that nifty radar sense, he can preform acrobatics Nightwing can only drool over. Dare Devil takes that fight.

And if you're referring to Tower of Babble story line as your reference of Batman beating the whole JLA, Batman didn't do any of that. Yeah, he came up with the means, but Ra's al Ghul enacted those plans, with teams and teams of assassins. Batman didn't enact such plans, created them, yes. But did not implement them.

As for Dark Claw, I refuse to acknowledge him as he's from Amaglam. So he goes down. And even with all those powers and gagdets, Black Bolts voice would still take him out as ear plugs really wouldn't doo much to protect one against soud of that level. 'Nuff said.

I'm fairly certain Spidey's webbing is only insulated when he uses specially prepared web cartridges, ie he knows he's going to be fighting Electro or some other electric based villian. And he doesn't carry a supply of his special senario webbing with him everywhere he goes, he only mixes that up when he needs it, otehr wise, he's got standard webbing. But if this assumption of mine is incorrect, someone is more than welcome to correct my mistaken belief.

Blackbolt just speaking in short bursts at a normal speaking level would take out anything below a Superman level, hence why he just doesn't speak at all in the comics, ever, unless the very survival of all the Inhumans depends on him using his voice power to save them.

Hellboy I honestly don't know much about. But if it's a proven fact that he's vulnerable to electricity seems he's going down, to me.

Majestic vs. Supes, don't know how to call it. But Supes alone versus the entirity of Khell's team, or it's three really powerful members? I call in favor of Khell's team.

Picking the more popular, well-known heroes does not automatically make it the better team. What makes it the better team is putting forth well reasoned and thought out explanations of why they would win, instead of just relying on the popularity of the characters on the team to win the battle for you. It's all about quality, both of the team and the poster's explanations. And the popularity of the characters does not equate to either type of quality.

Quick Freeze
yeah heat vision will do a lot to spawn. and if you read the posts, then you'll see blackbolt is not allowed to speak over a whisper or hiccup so that rules out that theory. and you're right, popularity doesnt make it a better team, it makes it a more popular team. everybody knows what almost all of my team members accomplished which gives them an edge in the votes. and how can you tell me that the better team is the team with the better quality and poster's explainations when you completely dismiss a character just because you dont like amalgam? and if jenny sparks can really just fly into someones mouth in some kind of energy form and kill them then she does not belong at spider-man's level.
you wanna hear a scenerio?
superman attacks sparks and super speed and super strength and pummels her into a pulp before anybody knows what happened because during the prep time dark claw told him that she committed some intergalactic crime. spidey webs up midnighter and hawksmore for spidey and darky to finish off while nightwing and grifter double team dd. now it's my whole team vs majestic, black bolt and dragonman. both batman and spider-man are more than capable of defeating people more powerful than them as long as they are stupider, with the help of spawn, spidey and darky take out dragon man while supes keeps majestc busy and blackbolt is dealing with grifter, nightwing, and hellboy. now its my whole team vs majestic and black bolt. dark claw throws some kind of gas and since bb has terrible immunity he reacts to it very poorly which leaves dark claw, spider-man, spawn and hellboy to overpower him, again while supes and majestic are duking it out. so my whole team vs majestic, you decide.

DarkCrawler
Oh, yeah the yare just probably going to stand there when he webs them up. right.



I think he could kill them all with one whisper. No one of them can take an Class 80 force and survive.



How they take out an Class 100 character? Explain me.



Majestic, with same powers and more experience, plus him being more ruthless, is better then Superman.



He could take out Dark Claw, Spider-Man, and Hellboy in matter of seconds unless the wouldn't have been killed by Black Bolt earlier.

Scoobless
the problem i keep seeing with black bolt is that as soon as he uses a class 80 whisper it takes out most people on both teams - Jack Hawksmoor, Jenny Sparks, Midnighter, Daredevil, Spawn, Hellboy, Dark Claw, Spider-Man, Nightwing and Voodoo ok i'm not sure about spawn and jenny sparks as i'm not that familiar with them but i assume as black bolts scream is energy it will affect an electrical opponent and i read the batman spawn crossover where batman wears some time of metal energy gloves and beats the crap out of spawn so it doesn't look like he can take an 80 level, dragon man superman and majestic can all take it and BB doesn't hurt himself with it (i assume) but i have trouble believing he would use something that'll take out his own team unless it get's to the point where they are down already
if he uses it it looks like a superman V's majestic dragonman and black bolt (actualy dark claw could take it as wolverine has proven on many occasions he can go toe to toe with the hulk)
does using the scream...... or whisper or whatever we're calling it drain BB?
and darkcrawler asked how spidey and dark claw could take out dragonman, spidey has fought him before and knows he's pretty simple minded and easy to distract and could easily set him up for dark claw to slice him open
unless i'm wrong about spawn's resiliance this could come down to supes and dark claw against majestic and black bolt (after dragon man is sliced) and we all know wolverine can take a hell of a lot of punishment and could possably take out BB, i think it's agreed that in one on one majestic would eventualy beat superman but may end up exhausted doing it so (in this scenario) it would be dark claw v's tired majestic and in that case, with these who are 2 of the most ruthless in this line up i may have to go with the claw if he has all batmans gadgets and all wolverines abilities which would let him take a direct hit from this guy and by the sound of him majestic would overestimate his invulnerability to adamantium claws and come in to close
sorry khell - it's 6 each and i'm going to use my vote for freeze

ScarletSpider
This bout will be put to rest tomorrow at 5 standard eastern time. Just a forewarning.

Tron
Alrighty, just let me know when you're ready to have it closed.

ScarletSpider
Thanks, Tron. And congrats on the promotion to mod smile

Khellendros
You're right, he wouldn't use it until most of the battlefield was cleared. That's why, in the strategy I had up, he used only a whisper, directed downwards, so that his two opponents and the street would have absorbed the impact. The thing is, Majestic is an excellent leader and strategist. He could easily come up with a plan that put his Black Bolt's voice to use without hurting his team. If anything, BB could act as a rallying point. If things start going badly, the team could fall back behind him, and let him clear the field with an extended whisper and protect them with a force field.

I know Wolverine can take hits from Hulk, but those are physical blows. This is destructive energy, it doesnt transfer kinetic energy it just destroys matter.




Not noticeably. One assumes after a solid hour he would get tired, but just a few minutes of whipsering shouldn't drain him very much.



The thing abut Majestic, is that most of his battles have been against Daemonites. These are aliens who can possess people, so that even some unassuming shmuck could be a deadly enemy. Majestic is not in the habit of underestimating people. Even if he was tired out, he could still hit DC ten times at superpseed before he even knew what hit him. And, when hitting him didn't work, he could use Black Bolt to strip the flesh off his bones. Even if he heals back, I think that still counts as incapacitation. See, Black Bolt still has his forcefields. No way is he letting anything that looks like Wolverine get close to him with those claws.



Oh well, thanks for at least telling me why you voted. I appreciate that. And hey, it's tied up again so maybe I still have a chance?

Lord-of-Dreams
Yep, Khell. I say it goes either way. Like Quickfreeze said, I know nothing about your team, so I trust his more. From what I've read, it's pretty damn close. Two great stategens, two Supermen... But I think that Quick's team is probably just plain better. Supes can take advantage of your screaming guy (sorry, I forget his name... sad) Anyway, I actually prefer your strategy, but...

Tron
Word.wink

Quick Freeze
i just want to say that however it turns out, this round is going to be twice as long as the scoob/crazy round, with 14 votes ours is tied 7-7 while at 14 votes theirs was 9-5, and that i am fine with however it turns out, no hard feelings either way ok khell?

now back to the show:
darkcrawler: midnighter and hawksmoor have no way of knowing what webbing is, i'm not saying they'll let spidey web them up im just saying they wont expect it, which puts them at a disadvantage. hellboy is more than capable of taking a class 80 force, even so, i dont think bb has the accuracy to to take all three of them out with a whisper with out getting everybody else on his team who cant take it either. you took the spidey and darky taking out dragon man out of context, i said they could do it with the help of spawn, which they can. and even if majestic is better (which i dont think is provable) all i said is that supes would keep him busy which you cant deny, besides you only said he was more experienced and ruthless than superman, superman is more than capable of keeping somone like that busy even with similar powers and everybody know that. finally, maybe bb can take them all out in a matter of seconds, but darkclaw can throw somekind of poison gas at any moment of the battle, i was just building up to khell's bests because its more dramatic.

scoobs: i know i have your vote now anyway (thanks) but for the sake of future debates, dont base spawn on what you read in either of the 2 horrible batman crossovers. anyone will tell you it's crap and spawn is capable of everything khell and i said he is in previous posts.

khell: i think if my team saw everybody on your team get behind bb they'd know something is up and do the same, non of them are dummies and in fact most of them have great instincts notably superman with his ability to think faster than most people and spidey's spider sence, they can place my entire team to join your behind bb to avoid the whisper. (which they wouldnt even have to do for most of my team is able to do the same on their own). and scoobs was talking about a final one on one between dark claw and an exhausted majestic, after the everyone else has been takin out so he couldnt have bb do anything to him.

crazyspinz
all cross overs have a really bad habbit of sucking

Khellendros
They wouldn't have to keep running. Once the team is behind him, Black Bolt can use his voice. I don't see them having to fall back anyways. And, I know he was talking about one on one versus Dark Claw, but I gave him a reason why BB would have survived Dak Claw, thus ithe scenario changed from one on one to two on one.

Draco69
Isn't Spawn god-like powerful these days? I heard he was from somebody in the Versus forums. The Superman vs. Spawn forum to be exact.

Khellendros
Yes, these days he is. But we're talking about the old Spawn, minus the Godly powers.

Quick Freeze
yeah but that's his scenerio not mine. and i meant that as soon as my team begin to even see your team go behind bb we would only be a split second after you. in order to get behind bb, you team would have to momentarily stop the combat in which they were engaged in with my team and it wouldnt be hard you catch on in an instance like that, again, espicially with batman the ability of hellboy, dark claw, and nightwing to study what their opponents are doing, supes hightened sences and superspeed reaction and what not, spidey's sence yada yada yada

Draco69
Thanks for info.

Khellendros
The thing is, Supes and Majestic aren't going to be a factor in this fight until the other one is down for the count. Neither one can afford to attack anyone else and leave the other one free to destroy their team. And, after they win, that means a huge advantage for the winners team.

In this case, I don't think Majestic will be that exhausted after beating Supes. Superman just slugs it out with an opponent until they fall over. He'll block a few punches, sure, but for the most part his focus is knocking his opponent down. Majestic is different, he doesn't hesitate to use every advantage he has. He goes straight to super speed, hits his opponent with enough strength to take them down in the first few blows.

Majestic is the better and stronger fighter. Even if he is tired after beating Superman, an slightly weakened Majestic is better than almost anyone else on your team. Hellboy's stone hand only does extra damage to supernatural creatures, since Majestic isn't supernatural that hand isn't going to do any damage. Spawn is strong, but like Corlock said, Majestic would not hesitate to decapitate him.

Mignighter has fought dozens of super powered opponents at a time, he could probably take Nightwing and Grifter on by himself. With Daredevil backing him up, he would be almost unstoppable.

Hawksmoor versus Spider man woudl be interesting. But, since Jack can tell the buildings not to cooperate with Spiderman and can phase through the streets and walls, I think he wins eventually. Jenny versus Dark Claw would be ridiculous. It would just be an endless cycle of shocking him, waiting in pure energy form until he gets up, and shocking him again until Jack could phase him into the street.

Either way, Black Bolt and Jenny could both move between your team and mine, and hit the other team with voice and lightning right as the fight starts while the two everymen are duking it out up above. Those who survive that first blast could be mopped up by the rest of the team.

Quick Freeze
again, you cant prove majestic is stronger or a better fighter. all you've said is that he would initially use his powers to their full extent, first of all that doesnt stop supes from doing the same and why wouldnt he be able to counter everything majestic does? if majestic comes at supes with superspeed, supes can just get up to the same level of speed making superspeed irrelavant. how can you say one would triumph over the other when they're virtually the same character? does majestic have experience fighting himself?

Corlock Striker
Okay, here we go. Majestic being the insanely experienced fighter he is, decides while fighting Supes to get Supes's own team to take him down for him, effective strategy often enough. He notices that Spawn fires some green energy from his hands. Perfect, ranged attacker. Power dives towards Spawn, Supes follows suit, unable to see what's in front of Majestic. Spawn powers up his hell fire blasts and shoots them towards Majestic, who at the last moment gets out of the way. Supes having been unable to see that, because why would he use his x-ray vision he doesn't keep it on all the time, has no time to dodge, and gets hit by the hell fire. As it is magical in nature, Supes is down for the count, and Majestic is still standing. There you go.

Lord-of-Dreams
You are using the stupidest logic EVER (not including Countquan wink). Supes is not that stupid. If he was, would he still be alive?? For the second time... Why wouldn't Supes just move?? HE HAS SUPERHUMAN REFLEXES, YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!! Decent logic otherwise.

Quick Freeze
if we said that spawn cant take down majestic why can he take out supes? and spawn wouldnt waiste his time trying to take down majestic even if he "power dives" towards him, he's too busy whoopin everyone else. yeah and lord's right, supes isnt dumb enough to "fallow suit" either.

Khellendros
So, if he sees a guy more powerful as he is diving towards the battlefield where the rest of his team is fighting, Superman isn't going to try and catch him? I find that doubtful.

EDIT: And Spawn's blasts would be more effective against Superman because he has a definite weakness to magic. Majestic has no such weakness.

Quick Freeze
he wont fallow suit, he never has, he always comes around. besides, i would think if majestic missed spawn's blast supes would too even if he did fallow suit and spawn wouldnt just try to blast majestic either, like i said, he'd have his hands full whoopin the rest of your team.

Corlock Striker
Spawn sees some guy diving towards him, his reaction would be to blast him with Hellfire. He lets off the blast, he's in front of Superman, blocking Superman's line of sight to the hellfire, Supes has it's no idea its there, just before the hellfire hits Majestic, he gets out of the way, as in millimeters before it touches him. Superman flying as fast as he is would be upon the hellfire within nano-seconds, too quickly to effectively react to its presence and get out of the way.

Quick Freeze
ok im getting tired of this. . . if you keep telling me the same story, i'm going to give you the same agruments. have you EVER seen superman fallow someone step for step??? you guys are not giving the man of steel nearly enough credit. and supes could do the samething with sparks

laydiiplayette
It is more likely that Superman instead of following Majestic, would go off somewhere, and then do the cliche, save spawn in the nick of time thing.

Khellendros
When have you ever seen Superman taken down by lightning? If it can't hurt him it can't hurt Majestic. And, if Majestic dives at the battlefield at top speed what is Superman going to do? He can't outrun him, so Supes choices are chase after him or let Majestic wreak havoc on the battlefield.

Quick Freeze
even if majestic flies at the battle field like that the only way spawn could get him is if and only if supes is right on his tail, if thats the case why cant supes just grab his legs to slow him down or throw him using majestic's momentum or punch him to throw him off course.

Khellendros
As fast as both of them would be moving, Superman could be four feet behind Majestic and still not have time to dodge. The only reason Majestic would be able to move in time is because he would be looking for the attack from Spawn.

Quick Freeze
if they're four feet apart there's no way supes wouldnt be able to see spawn

Khellendros
It doesn't matter if he could see Majestic heading for Spawn, All Majestic would have to do is slow down just the tiniest bit right before he got to Spawn. Superman gets closer, focused on catching the guy hes chasing, then Majestic blurs to the right and Supes gets a face full of Hellfire.

Quick Freeze
it does matter because he can he spawn about fire so he can move too

Khellendros
No, he can't because as he gets closer to Majestic, he would be focusing on trying to keep his opponent away from Spawn, not watching what Spawn is doing. Besides, as he gets closer to Majestic, he'll see less and less of what Spawn is doing.

Quick Freeze
superman wouldnt slow down just because majestic is, if majestic flies out of the way in time when their that close supes can too. spawn would miss them both. that's only if spawn even attempts to fire.

Khellendros
I know Superman wouldn't slow down, that's my whole point. He keeps going fast, trying to get Majestic.. Just before he can grab Majestic, he gets out of the way of the hellfire Spawn just unleashed. Superman, still going at top speed, wouldn't have time to dodge.

Quick Freeze
he would see that he's flying towards spawn in the beginning!!! you think superman's an idiot? this would only work if superman was drunk!

Khellendros
It would work. All Superman knows is that a very dangerous man is flying at his team memeber. If he lets Majestic go, he destroys Spawn. If he chases Majestic, he has to fly at top speed to even try and catch him. At those speeds, he isn't going to be paying attention on two things at once, he's going to be focused on trying to stop Majestic from killing Spawn. Once Majestic moves, though, it's too late and the hellfire is already in his face.

Quick Freeze
supes would only need to swerve upward as soon as sees majestic's head turn

Khellendros
Why would his head turn? He wouldn't be moving at full speed at that point, all he'd have to do is fly full speed to the side and let the hellfire hit supes.

Quick Freeze
ok then as soon as he sees majestics torso slighly bend then supes can do the same, maybe spawn would skim supe's foot but that wouldnt do much when he's flying full speed.

Khellendros
You aren't getting it. There's no seeing his torso bend. One second the guy he's chasing is right in front of him, the next second Majestic is gone and there's a blast of hellfire right in his face.

Quick Freeze
if majestic slows down a little supes has him, if majestic stays constant and shifts a second before spawn blasts, supes supes will continue to be on his tail regrdless of some kind of shift majestic makes

Khellendros
Not if he slows down right before getting to Spawn. All he has to do is slow down the tiniest bit, just to make supes think he's closing in. That causes supes to focus on Majestic instead of Spawn. They are both still flying at incredibly fast speeds, and the only reason Majestic is able to dodge Spawn's blast is that he had this all planned out. Spawn throws a blast at Majestic, Majestic dodges. It doesn't have to be a huge dodge, it just has to be a few inches to the side to let the hellfire by. Since superman has become focused on catching Majestic, he can't dodge the hellfire in time, even if he noticed him slip to the side a litle bit, because in the next split second the hellfire is in his face.

Quick Freeze
ive heard this story already. but super man doesnt have to think about cloing in on majestic. if majestic slows even the tiniest bit supes has him, whether he grabs him, tackles him whatver.

Khellendros
You still aren't getting it. Say one car is going 70 miles and hour, and the car behind it is going 70 too. If the car in front slows down to 69 miles an hour, the car behind will start catching up. But, because the car in front is only going one mile less, it will take time for the second car to catch up. It's the same thing here. Majestic just has to slow down enough to let Superman start getting close, but keep going fast enough to stay out of his reach for a little bit longer. After that it's all over.

Quick Freeze
they would be close enough for supes to catch him. and i still dont think supes would fallow right behind him anyway. if supes wants to stop somone from reaching somewhere, he would fly off a little to the side thinking he can catch up completely and stop his opponant, leaving spawn and superman in eachothers views the whole time.

Khellendros
The time it would take to fly to the side is just one more second Majestic has to get to Spawn first. It's either fly right after him or doom a teammate to getting his head ripped off. Superman knows he can't fly faster than Majestic, so he thinks his only choice is to get to majestic when he stops to grab Spawn and and try to separate them.

Quick Freeze
look khell, it should have ened over 2 hours ago, and we've been tied for pretty much the whole time. i think most of my votes came from people who dont know much about superheros and just picked their favorites. you obviously spent a lot of time and thinking coming up with all this, and i, personally am not having fun right now and that really is what the whole point of all this is. if im not having fun right now, i dont think i'd have fun in the next round. so, you win, goodluck. i hope you give the next guy hell and i'll be rooting for you.

Khellendros
LOL Holy crap, you weren't having fun?? I love this stuff, that's why I joined this forum in the first place. Why don't we just stop arguing, let it sit at a tie, and let Scarlet break the tie?

Quick Freeze
ok deal smile

ScarletSpider
Oh, crap! I've already voted, so if Tron could make the final decision before he closes the thread, that would be nice. Please, oh Glorious Moderator Tron?

Tron
It's very hard for me to say who has the advantage, so I'll have to remain neutral on this. But, I'll wait until someone breaks the tie before I officially close the poll and thread.

Quick Freeze
congradulations khell, looks like you won, like i said i'll be rooting for you

Khellendros
Awesome! Thanks Quick. This was pretty friggin fun. big grin

Quick Freeze
fo sho

Tron
Sorry I'm late. Anyways, Khellendros is the winner. I guess the next round will start when ScarletSpider starts it.

Closing

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