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Opinions?

Hmmm....

I dont know how well thor could withstand a super-nova from Human torch... and the invisbile woman... crap I forgot her name, but her force-field's are like, level 7.

And im not sure, but maybe The Thing could duke it out with Thor?

True. And also consider that one of the main strong points of the FF is their team work. With it they have brought down exceedingly more powerful foes.
It would still be a great battle, but i would have to hand it to anyone who can face Galactus with a tangible hope of victory.
The FF.

Well....the FF do operate well as a team..but I think they'd be a little outclassed in a battle like this..with Tony's smarts...Cap's tactical skill ...and Thor and Hulk's sheer power....It would be very difficult for them to pull this off. Still they do have a chance... a very slim one at best..particularly if Reed were given enough time to think of a plan... but without one..they're pretty much going to be killed...

Thor would win in a straight up fist fight with the Thing. Ben's great and all, but Thor just owns. However Ben could provide a long enough distraction to allow one of the others to take goldilocks out.

Reed's super intellect should allow him to counter or evade anything Tony throws at him. With his energy dagger and simple knowledge of Tony's suit, T'Challa beat him mercilously. Then Tony came after him with a new, anti-vibranium suit. T'Challa proceeded to take out the garbage again. Reed could do the same.

And when in doubt, just have Sue expand an invisible bubble inside their skulls, or suffocate them.

Would be good point. would be. Only one thing makes it would be. it's not a good point. Thor and Hulk could hold their own vs. Galactus. And then we are adding Ironman and Cap.
Let's hit up an Dream-Dream fight...
Cap goes straight after stretchyman, they tangle... and in the end, Cap is untagling Stretch. No one likes to wake up in a knot!
Ironman just waits for Seethrough lady to become tangible, then he tanges her up!!! (and down)
Fireboy vs. Hulk... NOVA, NOVA, NOVA...CRASH!!!
Thing vs Thor... Thing gets punched in the face... goes oh GOD!! Thor goes... Yea, I kicked his ass too, biatch!!!
And there you have it folks! Oh, and next weeks episode: Thor and Hulk get at it, Cap. and Man watch like a pair of sissys.

i'd love to see the Invisible Women unleash. She could mount a defense and offense that would rip them apart. The other three are no slouches. It would give Thing time to pulverize Hulk.
Torch could burn Cap. and then lay into Thor.
Mr. Fantastic is indestructible. He could tear through Ironman at his leisure.shaun

This isn't even close. Cap's team wins by a mile.

There is now way Cap could hurt Reed. His body is elastic, Cap's shield, if he threw it, would just get caught in Reed. Mr. Fantastic could then smother Cap and suffocate him.

Thor with OdinForce. Enough said.

With Odinforce, I'd agree. Without, not so much.

Thor and the Hulk are two of the strongest and most powerful superheroes in the Marvel Universe. The only one above them is the Silver Surfer. Sue Richards is an incredibly powerful woman but she pales before them. The other FF4 members aren't even a factor. Any forcefield she creates would be shattered. Suffocation would be a fruitless tactic since Thor can go weeks without air and the Hulk can hold his breath for hours. It's no contest.

Weeks?!

He IS a god.

"It would give Thing time to pulverize Hulk."

Thing and Hulk have fought many times and )I may be wrong but i don't think so) Thing has NEVER beat the hulk.

"Torch could burn Cap. and then lay into Thor."

Torch is gonna take out Captain America AND Thor?

"Mr. Fantastic is indestructible."

I have never heard this before.


I am definatley not a FF expert, actually i don't really care for them at all. But hasn't it taken the Whole Team to stop the Hulk before? Add in Stark, Caps and the big Nordic guy and I think the FF are a little outgunned.

For those of you who saw that the FF are great as a team, I think the strategic mind of Caps would counter whatever advantage being a team would help the FF.

Mr. Fantastic is by no means indestrutible. He got half his face burned off by Dr. Doom. Plastic Man however is another story.

The Human Torch would never have a chance in hell to defeat Thor. His hammer can absorb and deflect practically anything that comes his way. Even a nova blast wouldn't do much damage to Thor. He can either use his hammer to deflect/absorb the attack or teleport behind him and play whack a mole with his hammer.

The Thing has gotten his ass kicked by the Hulk so many times I'm surprised ol' Jade Jaws doesn't own a copyright.

Thor could take out the Thing pretty handily. The Hulk has beaten Richards decisively before. If Reed tries to smother the Hulk, all the Hulk would have to do is inhale him like he did in a previous encounter. Cap could ostensibly beat the Torch and use his shield to protect himself. Sue wouldn't be able to suffocate Iron Man because he has his own oxygen supply within his suit.

The Avengers win this one.

Good argument. Although I highly doubt that Cap could defeat the Torch. Even if he could deflect the flames with his shield. The heat and the oxygen deprivation would likely overwhelm him.

It takes more than pure power to beat the FF...the FF have had to fight whole teams of cosmics equally powerful to Thor or Hulk...Cap and Ironman simply rnt a factor...it would come down to Hulk and Thor...and oh yea, Thing has fought Thor twice.

Captain America, despite me thinking he's extremely cheap and annoying, is without doubt a great fighter and tactician. His team would be formidible but assuming they all work together, it'd come close.

I think, for reasons people have already stated, that the F4 could nail it. Could go either way though. The longer it goes on, the more chance Cap's team have to win.

-AC

The Hulk alone can give the FF some trouble. Throw in heavy hitters like Thor and Iron Man (and Captain America bossing everyone around) and the FF is done for.

thing and thor fought before wyndarr? when? who won?


anyway as to the thread:

reed richards is a genius, but so is tony plus you got the tactical genius of capt. america.

thor,hulk,and ironman all outclass torch.
sue would basically be playing defense here. she would be effective against ironman and cap, but there's no way she could stand up against thor or hulk.
the only one i think reed could beat here is capt a, and that's a BIG maybe. that fight could go either way.
thing is weaker than ironman,hulk,and thor.

all in all, the avengers win big time.

He's not weaker than Iron Man! Iron man can only sustain super-heavy weight levels of strength for like a few minutes before his suit craps out.

Either way it think Thor and Hulk alone would mash up on the FF 9 out of 10 so long as Thor kept saying "Be that as hard as though can smash? Thou hardly smashed him at all!"

come on guys. Aint no argument here. The Hulk has single handlely fought the FF. Throw in Thor and the contest is well won. Throw in cap and Iron man and it's a masacar! Thor is way stronger than the thing.

Yep I say cap would be easily dealt with by torch cuz the shield can't protect his whole body from the heat/fire. Sue would definitely use a forcefield, but since she feels the hits it would take by Thor, Iron Man, and Hulk she won't last long. Reed would be inhaled by hulk again. Hulk would use one of those claps that puts out torch, and if that didn't work, theres still the fact he has to deal with 2 fliers being Iron Man and Thor. Thing would last the longest imo, but that's still not long against Hulk Thor and Iron Man imo... If torch goes nova he would probably take out iron man and cap (if cap was still a factor), but the last time I checked going nova uses up all his power in one burst, so he's screwed after that.

the avengers style team

this is stupid should be more like HUlk vs FF4 , or Thor vs FF4 then we have a fight and even then hulk and thor will still win only person they have to fear is reed and his marbel(brain) , Other than that other are toast.

IM whould redirect super nova energy to his weapon system and will explode Human torch head with one punch, Thorn will turn Thing to dust with mjolnir, Hulk will do some knot of Richard and invisible woman should use his power to escape the combat place if she don't want to became invisible pieces like all the rest of his team.

This fight has 3 of the heaviest hitters Marvel and the Avengers have ever employed, PLUS the tactical strategy of Captain America directing the battle, going against some really nice heroes who are ALL outclassed in some way here.

Avengers all the way. I don't even see this as much of a contest.

Depends on the situation. Pre-knowledge of the battle, FF would have a chance. Random encounter they'd go down with ease.

You're probably right about that. If there's one guy in ANY comic universe who could take 15 minutes worth of prep-time and develop the perfect cosmic superduperflammerjamm ray to defeat these 4, it is Reed Richards. But walking in the door and throwing up dukes, there's no contest.

If you give 15 min on every side, Stark can handle Richard prep-plan.
So same issue.

what if thor joined the original defenders?
. . . just let that sink in. . .

Original defenders were one of the strongest teams in Marvel...

hmm you only need one of them to beat F4 and it any of them other than cap

I disagree with that. Black Panther beat FF all by himself, and Cap is a little better than Panther. I think any of these guys could beat FF if they had to.

Captain America would probably beat F4 on his own based on the fact that he hasn't lost one on one in years and years.

The F4 powers wise have enough to take out Capt easily. Also Iron-Man.

-AC

Above the Hulk maybe, but not above Thor.

I wouldn't count Sue out...true she would be playing defense, but it would be a strong one. Don't underestimate the strength of her forcefield...she was once able to protect all of Manhattan in space when Earth was under attack by Terrax the Destroyer. At one time she was also strong enough to keep Apocalypse at bay, using her forcefield, and he's no walk in the park either.

On paper this may look like a one-sided affair, but you have to remember that the Fantastic Four are the ultimate superhero team. They are what the Avengers and X-Men aspire to be. Eventually this team of Avengers would probably win...but it would be a hard fought victory, nowhere close to a cake walk.

This would be a awsome battle to see, I dont know who to lean towards just yet lets see some facts here though:

-Reed is by far the genious here, Tony is smart , but pales in comparison to Reed.
-Hulk has taken on the entire FF team before with excellent results
-Torch does have a extreamly powerful attack (probably the most powerful in the bunch) with his Nova blast. But can only use it once, then he's practicly powerless for some time
-Captain A is the best fighter of the bunch, and even though he might not be able to really harm Reed, a few smacks in Reeds kisser with his shield would sure daze him
-Invisible Woman is probably the most underated person here. She has a huge arsenal of abilities with her powers, and might get overlooked
-Thor's hammer has practlcly a unlimited amount tricks itself, not just call lighting and smack some heads.

So maybe I just might barely give this one to the avengers ..barely

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v34/USAgent/11.jpg
couldnt get Sue in the pic

Barely? What are you talking about? You said it yourself, Hulk on his own has done it. How are they suppose to beat him and Thor, a much bigger threat than the Hulk (because of his versatility.) Iron Man has an incredibally diverse arsenal. Cap may not be able to Hurt Reed but he could probably find a way to take out Hulk and Human torch, not to mention that he would rally this team to a 15 second victory (and i'm being generous.)

I mean, you heard yourself right? "Hulk has taken on the entire FF team before with excellent results"- USAgent. And that somehow means that they magically have a chance against these four?

yep , Barely

Im taking into account that Reed just isnt gonna be streaching around and trying to physically harm his opponents, Im sure if he knew that he was about to fight those 4 Avengers he would of created a gizmo or 2 to help his team to his advantage-like something that forceably turns the Hulk back into Banner or something like that.
And its not always "who has the biggest guns" that win fights either, ya gotta use your noodle and I'm prett sure we all agree Reed has the biggest one...um I mean noodle...er uh...brain of the bunch

Oh I did agree the Avengers would win out in the end, but BARELY.
And the Hulk did not beat the FF, but he gave them a good battle early on in their careers. Heck anymore Ben Grin can hold his own for awhile against the Hulk

Are you saying Stark is dumb. If one side gets prep then the other should to. They'd probably end up cancelling out reguardless of who has the bigger brain, if anyone can build anything as fast as Reed it's gotta Stark (ignoring doom and a few others here) but you get my point. FF prep time against these 4 no prep time, yeah they win barely like you said.

Tony is dumb compared to Reed. He doesnt have 1/2 the brain Richards has. But thats compared to Reed, Tony is a brilliant engineer, and Bruce sure isnt any slouch in the smarts department either (which I forgot about) So maybe if they both put their brains togeather they might be able to out think Slim.

SO prep time vs Prep time ....barely
no prep time vs no prep time....barely

No way, no prep vx. no prep, Thor does it by himself while the other three decide where to have there victory meal.

The FF need a edge hear to make it even.

Yeah with no prep time, sorry but the FF are a kind of no match here.

Ironman kills human torch
hulk kills thing
cap america kills mr fantastic
thor kills invisible lady

What are Cap and Iron Man doing here? lol!

We've got Thor a Norse god and the Hulk - arguably two of the most invincible characters in Marvel!

Thor will strike Torch down with lightning, then crack open Sue's forcefields like an egg with Mjolnir.

The Hulk will smash Thing into rubble then stretch Reed like a rubber band and catapult him into space lol!

Only jokijng. But seriously, F4 rock, but I think they're outclassed by these heavy hitters...

Indeed, Arguably, on the Hulks Part.

But in this battle, its not.
Hulk, alone, could trash these guys.

The Hulk would take down the thing Captain America would beat up Mr. Fantastic Thor would freakin Kill Humna Torch because I think he could just spina round his hammer to put him out and blah blah Invisible girl would be dead blah blah.

LOL... THIS IS A SLAUGHTER!!! Thor can take the entire FF by himself.

Add the strength of The Hulk, the arsenal of Iron-Man and the leadership of Captain America and you have a guaranteed loss for the Fantastic Four.

hmm, it might go something like this:

IM takes out torch
thor takes sue (but i'm not convinced it's THAT easy)
hulk takes thing
reed takes cap (suffocates by stretching over his face) but is left alone against the others . . .