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I posted a poll before as to who would win in a fight between Count Dooku and Mace Windu, needless to say Mace won by a wide margin (2 to 13) so I decided to up the ante in Darth Vader.

Well, are we talking human Vader, because I think we all know that does happen...
Or Mech Vader, which would be a better balanced fight.

Oh sorry mech. Would you be so kind as to type out the battle again?

lol, Nefarus is pretty damn good at those battles!
And, Arsenal, keep up the duel threads, they're pretty cool.

I was planning on it. I figured if it were to occur, it would happen at the end of an alternate Episode 3. Mace would be aiding Bail, Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Luke escape. Mace secures them into their escape pods and seals them tight.

"Master Windu! What are you doing?" Obi-Wan screamed through the thick glass between the two of them.

"The force will guide you in protecting those children, as it will guide me in protecting you," Mace replied. "Now you must go."

Master Yoda and Mace locked eyes for a moment. It was the first time Obi-Wan had ever seen so much emotion between the two Masters. Mace bowed, to which Yoda returned the bow as Mace's eyes began to sparkle from the pent up tears.

All of his life Master Yoda had been there to guide him, to teach him, and now, at the end, he couldn't be more honored to have learned under anyone else.

Yoda's feelings were quite similar. For over eight centuries Yoda had seen Jedi live and die; be it natural or at the hands of an enemy. Out of everyone he knew and all the Jedi that served him and the republic on the Jedi council, he believed Mace to be his favorite.

"May the force be with you," Master Yoda said, turning his head away to hide from Mace, who turned away as well, knowing what he had to do.

Obi-Wan had never felt so helpless or lost. Worse yet, he believed it to all be his fault, if he had only trained Anakin better, had he listened more and not tried to be better than Yoda.

"Made your padawan's decision, you did not. Sidious was the influence he followed."

Yoda was right. Anakin chose poorly, but he was also manipulated. And there would be no way Obi-Wan would allow that to happen to Anakin's son. This time would be different.

Master Windu watched until the ships were out of range. A tremendous surge of power and unrivaled hatred permeated through the air as the dark figure approached him. He was accompanied by a small band of clone troopers, to which Mace readied his saber and met them with a cold stare.

The mechanical figure put his left hand up, and ushered the clones aside, his deep voice booming, "Leave us,"

Mace could not understand why, buy something about this was not right here. Here stood a large mechanical droid looking creature, that still hosted an incredible amount of force power.

It was then a red humming blade was in the dark figure's hand as the left beckoned Master Windu to come forward. Mace prepared his blade and went in swinging. Down, left, across the shoulder and down, every angle and every unpredictable maneuver his form 7 had taught him he used.

Yet the monster responded with an unchallenged fury.

With one hand he began slicing downward repeatedly, the force of his massive frame and power from the force knocked Mace back several times. After the seventh swing Mace dropped to a knee to duck under the next swing, and brought his saber up to the dark ones shoulder. The swing was parried downward, and Mace's throat was suddenly being crushed by the large mechanical arm not wielding a lightsaber.

Mace swung wildly and kicked at the dark warrior, scoring a scraping swing on his attacker's right arm. With and incredible surge of power Mace was launched across the room, smashing into the glass the protected them from the dark cold of space.

Mace was flung through the vacuum of the cold space and jolted backward suddenly by an anknown force. The unkown force actually was the force as the dark warrior was actually able to hold onto the wall, and use the force to bring Master Windu's body toward him.

The incredible force of the vacuum, the fact that his body was beaten and being pulled by someone through the force left Master Windu virtually helpless. Finally he came within reach of the dark warrior who was raising the hilt of his lightsaber.

"What are you?" Mace asked, trying to see through the strong current of the vacuum.

"THI AM DARTH VADER, THE CHOSEN ONE" the dark and echoed in Mace's head, which was now flying out of the window, followed shortly by the rest of his body.

Another great battle.

good job man

Yeah except I think Mace would kick his ass. Honestly, all these Vader vs. whoever always end up with a majority saying that Vader would lose. Don't you think we get it by now?

Well, I admit Mace is in better shape for this type of combat, but based on how Anakin has to bring balance to the force, that's why he survives the lava bath. I mean he's still 20% less powerful than the Emperor which basically says that only Yoda and Luke would have a chance.
IMHO

I'd go for Darth he is just better. I think he can kill pretty much any Jedi.

I agree.

Yup. Vader would kill Mace, IMO. I reckon that it will be Vader who kills him in Ep.III.

Before lava pit bath ... Probably Vader
After laval pit bath ... definitely Windu

Before Vader had his bath in the lava pit...Vader would probably come out on top

But after the lava pit bath, Mace would wax the floor with Vader's @$$

Before Vader had his bath in the lava pit...Vader would probably come out on top

But after the lava pit bath, Mace would wax the floor with Vader's @$$, because Vader in the suit lacks the agility and physical shape that a skillful swordsman requires.

We get it now, you can stop.

HUH?????

Where did the first two posts come from?? I never typed them! I swear!

:P

Mace would be dancin' on Vader's grave 'cause Vaders old, slow, and has no concept of how to dress like a COOL sith lord.

Don't make fun of Vader's inability to dance.

He can do the robot

WELL!!? ITS TRUE ISN'T IT?!

Mecha Vader is strong with the Force. Only he can successfully defeat ancient British actor Alec Guiness in distracted mortal combat -and- do the robot afterwards to celebrate!

I still am waiting for the overwhelming proof that old mecha Vader could act anything on the level of Mace, Dooku, Yoda, or young Obi Wan. I believe even Maul could whip him around. It's not cuz I'm a blatant Vader basher (Although I will confess he is my least favorite Sith of all time) it's because I honestly feel he lacks as a fighter.

Mace hands down. Or rather, all human hands down.

Why do u hate Vader so much?

If you're meaning me, I don't hate Vader. I'm not overly fond of him. I find Anakin to be annoying, and old Vader is too lackluster to me. I actually prefer the ancient Sith Lords in their glory. As for current Sith, I'd have to elect Count Dooku, who has a touch of class.

Overwhelming proof I don't have, but I think there's enough logic from the films to tie it together.
Vader/Anakin was created by the force itself, meaning no one has a connection to the force like him. Then he joins the darkside, which further tips the balance in the darkside's favor, and makes Anakin much more powerful.
He survives a lava pit, how does that not make you incredible?
You know, the whole Jesus analogy alone should make it pretty obvious.
Only Sidious and/or Luke had what it took to take on Vader.

Why Sidious? I can try and rationalize for Luke, being his son and all, by Sidious? He's nothing overly special.

Darth Vader will win since he is more famous and powerful than Mace.

Oh, definately popularity wins all matches. Yes, true logic there.

More Famous, indeed.

More powerful, complete and utter nonsense.

Mace will waste Vader so quickly that no one will know the fight (or in this case, SLAUGHTER) took place.

Why Sidious? I can try and rationalize for Luke, being his son and all, by Sidious? He's nothing overly special.

SAY WHAT?!

Sidious is the MOST powerful Sith Lord of all time. he defeats Yoda, clouds the entire other half of the force with his presence, and he slays three Jedi masters in an instant. Episode 3 will make you all realize the Emperor is near god status.

I'm just trying to follow the logic of Anakin/Vader being such a badass and so in tune with the Force if someone like Sidious exists who doesn't have the same blessed genes.

Kinda puts a spin on the whole chosen one theory... that's all.

Well yes, Anakin is supposed to reach a level of power above Sidious, but he doesn't because of his little lava bath. He's like 20% less powerful after the injuries.

Besides, how can you really say Sidious is nothing special? Look at how well he orchestrates the saga. from the attacks on Naboo, to the ordering of the clones, to the wars, to Anakin's seduction to the darkside. I mean, Sidious is the reason Anakin was created; it's his destiny to destroy the evil known as Sidious.

Well, just because I'm not impressed with the guy doesn't mean there's something wrong with me. I just don't have a lot of esteem for some wrinkly old ex-Senator who got chucked over a rail despite his amazing intellect and Force mastery. I don't recall the list of other Sith lords meeting pitiful ends, and they were every bit as ambitious and powerful as Sidious, if ot moreso.

Vader would win for sure. Mace vs. Vader would be an incredible dual, but Vader would come out on top. While Mace is no doubt a very powerful Jedi Master, Anakin was created by the force itself, and like Darth Nefarus said, he was destined to destroy Sidious. When Anakin goes to the dark side it makes him that much more powerful in the force. Since Jedi Knights are not just swordsman because they use the force in lightsaber combat, Vader would win because he is more powerful in the force. The only one's who stand a chance with Vader are Luke and Yoda. By the way, anyone else think it's ironic that even though Vader goes to the dark side and joins Sidious, he still ends up destroying him? Just a thought.

That's kinda goes into a deeper discussion of the force. I mean, did the force have a backup plan in case Anakin turned? Did it know along? Ahhh, so many questions!

Darth_Janus, I agree that Sidious' demise is sad, but he really had no idea Vader would turn on him. He thought it was impossible and that cost him.

But there's no way you can say (IMHO) that other Sith lords were more ambitious or powerful. If any of them had the powers Sidious had, wouldn't they have become Emperor instead? NO one else could cloud the force like he did. No one.

Hm. Well, I've been stubborn long enough. Since I'm not as well versed in the books as others may be, and haven't been up to date on any spoilers, I really shouldn't be arguing too much.

But I still think it's funny that the destiny of the chosen one ends with him chucking an old man over a rail. Just... the imagery, I guess.

Yeah, you'd expect something more from a chosen one huh!
He at least could have called Luke's saber to him, then killed Sidious with that as he got zapped by lightning.

Vader seems less agile and not as good at lightsaber-skills as anakin (pre-vader)

Seems that way. But spoilers indicate that Vader is created in the same place as Grievous, and Grievous has NO force powers. Therefore, you could argue that Anakin's rage and mech body would permit him to fight well still. Sure he couldn't flip around and he would be grounded more, but the skill would remain.
IMHO

What!? when did this happen we all know shimi was a hooker thats why his father is unkown sike nah

but is Anakin like Starwars' Jesus

Yea I hate the idea of this force creating shit, I bet Shmi just slept around and didnt want to tell Qui-Gon
Anyhow Vader could kill him, Anakin nope, no way.

Darth Vader since he's more important to the series.

What if this was taken out of the series and we would just look at there abilitys, what then Quan.

I'd like to say that the relevance of the versus matches become moot if you keep tying this destiny/prophecy/he's more popular/ he's important to the series crap in with your answers, guys. No wonder Mace Windu is losing even though I am very certain of his superiority in this match. Vader could be the chosen one, he could be Darth Christ, and he's still a rather lackluster and substandard fighter with minimal experience as opposed to Jedi -Master- Windu who is an amazing badass.

Despite how much I agreed with the post previous by Jedi Master, no doubt those from the other camp will protest. What fun...

lol, how right you are...

A thought occured to me. If Vader was so techinically inclined, would he not be able to modify his suit to make himself a more effecient warrior? I mean, we all know that there's still many Jedi he had to hunt down between episodes 3 and 4. According to the words of Yoda, Luke is the last of the Jedi in ROTJ, therefore I am assuming(as many others have and it kinds says so) that Vader hunted most of them down. So in all reality I think vader would win, but he would definately get hit a few times to make him angry, then he would finally finish Windu off.

Luke was never the last of the Jedi, he was the first of the new. But that is an interesting point... Vader could work with machines very well. Why did he have such a crappy suit?

Well, we can just suspend all logic(like you have to for Star Wars anyway) and just assume that Vader is still reasonably hardass. I mean, I have always argued that although Luke is not as trained, he could still hold his own(for a while at least) against more trained and skilled warriors.

And Master Yoda's direct words are, "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be."

This -is- the Expanded Universe section, right?

Yes, it is. I was browsing through the database the other night. It was listed there that Luke is later on informed that he is not the last of the old Jedi Order but rather the first of the new. It was there, in black text. Their words, not mine nor Yoda's.

Besides, Eu takes liberties with the storyline as does the games. Otherwise, Vader -would- be the strongest Jedi because he'd be the only one of his time.

Well, you're right is EU.
Still though, the fact is the force (both sides IMHO) are keeping Anakin/Vader alive to fufill his destiny, so unless Sidious was dead, I'm going to say Vader.

OOk lets just review a little, Vader killed: The Dark Woman
He killed Darth Maul
He kills at least 30 Bounty Hunters well with the Help of Boba but who cares.

He is strong, at least in the EU and this is the EU if I recall right isn'T it.

He could beat Windu. This is not for sure of course, since windu is one of the best sword fighters...but none the less it is more than just possible.

OK, how about this?

Those who think Vader will win, then so be it. Since they never actually fought, it is impossible to tell. All these are based solely on opinion and speculation.

No seriously, I never saw it that way...I always thought I was totally right

We all think we are right! And since we are unable to convince others, what's the point? I'm trying to provide some sort of a compromisation.

Compromise! BOOO!

Oi... Silence, you children. You'll wake baby Anakin in the next room. He has a battle with Samule L.... er... Windu in about twenty years.

NO SILENCE! VADER KILLS ALL!

Uh, actually he doesn't. He couldn't lift a finger to touch Grand Moff Tarkin. He sure wasn't able to Force crush Alderaan. And he can't even touch his toes in that suit. He's due for an AARP card in a few months, and he's forgotten just how hard it is to keep up in battle when you are artificially breathing. Poor bastard.

lol, noice.
Vader still wins though dude. He's made too much money for Lucas lol

Ah, I get it. Vader simply hires bounty hunters to do all his killing. Yeah, I change my bet in that case. Have every bounty hunter in Nar Shadaa after your ass because of ol' Vader and it's over.

OR he just hops into his custom tie fighter and beats ass in the sky.

Vader: The Force is strong with this one. Better use the target lock.

Mace: Man, where can a brother get him some duds around this backwater planet?

Vader: I have you now.

Mace: Is that a bird? A plane? No, it's an old man in a TIE fighter. Damn!

Dude, just picture the scene in pulp fiction where samuel l kills brett at the beginning, only imagine vader in the seat

What does MAster Yoda look like?

lmao... wow. Excelleny imagery.

obviously vader

wow i gotta say you persuaded me but EU Vader is made it to be better then orignal vader. EU vader in pics seems to be more agile.
SO
Mace Windu > Darth Vader
Mace Windu < EU Darth Vader

Oh, you were talking about EU Vader. Then I guess Vader stands a better chance. That would be a pretty cool fight, much better than the original Vader vd. Mace.

Dude, Vader had his ass handed to him by a half-trained boy, I don't think he will stand a chance if he fought a powerful, full-fledged Jedi Master.

Wrong. Anakin is the chosen one. He is very adept at using the force. When he taps into the dark side there are maybe only three people that could oppose him, Luke Skywalker, Obi Wan, and Sidious. Darth Vader is a good fighter and a person that obviously both sides wanted. Yoda wanted to train Anakin while Sidous wanted him as his sidekick. He must be good if Sidious wants him in the first place. In the movie, when Mace confronts the emperor spoiler* he fights the emperor who starts losing and anakin steps in and evens up the fight. Anakin then kills Mace. Mace is a powerful Jedi no doubt but could not fight Vader by himself and still win. IMO

The reason why I posted the really long thread was because I was annoyed by people saying Vader will win because he is cooler/he is more popular/he has a better reputation and other nonsense like that. Speiderman, you have a pretty good point, so I respect your opinion. But IMO, I think Mace has a chance of beating Vader. Won't be easy, but I still think he can.

Ok. I am willing to see other points. It would be a good fight nonetheless to witness. Imagine what objects would be force thrown!

I know eh? They should probably make a comic book dedicated to that fight.

I hate godamn spoilers

I think Mace would win but it wouldn't be an instant win. Ithink mech vader is being underestimated. i think he would hold his own for a while but mace ould eventually win.

Mace would lost a hard fought battle in my opinion. And Luke managed to win because Vader's heart was trying to tear him from the darkside, which made him grow weaker. And Luke was slashing at him pretty wildly.

VADER WINS EASILY
nuff said

He wins easily, huh? Just how easy we talking here?

2 minutes

IF that. Mace's style is all about wild unpredictable swings, but Vader would just choke him out, glove or via the force.
sorry mace, you rock the house and all, but no one can stand up to Vader

minus the force, only lightsaber skill, maul is the best

I agree Maul has talent, but I think Sidious or Yoda is the best with a saber. Besides, you admitted earlier that Maul is Sidious' underling and did lose to him.
Don't make me bring up the prophecy lol

If Vader used force choke, couldn't Mace just simply block it?

I don't know if he could block it necessarily, as opposed to just force pushing Anakin and escaping the grasp of it.

I doubt Mace was so weak in the Force as to be destroyed by a mere force choke. And I think two minutes is giving Vader WAY too much credit.

you're right
3 minutes

Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
I agree Maul has talent, but I think Sidious or Yoda is the best with a saber. Besides, you admitted earlier that Maul is Sidious' underling and did lose to him.
Don't make me bring up the prophecy lol



Yoda and Sidious wouldnt be good with lightsabers if they didnt have the force to guide them and keep them strong.......theyre bodies are fragile,all im saying is that WITHOUT THE FORCE Maul is best with a lightsaber.

and how can this be proven?
couldn't you argue Anakin or Obi-Wan could be better? they're not fragile or old

He's a Maul fan, and his personal bias shows in his avatar, pic, and his words. I really don't find any reason more to listen to him. He has little nice or constructive to say, and he has yet to persuade me of anything.

As for three minutes, that's a disgrace as well. Do try and realize that Vader is a fallible creature like the rest. If he was infallible, there would be no episodes four thru six, because Obi Wan wouldn't have won.

And also, without the Force, people are most likely to lop off limbs. The Force is what makes a lightsaber a Jedi's trademark weapon. Only with its subtle flows and guidance can a Jedi master the weapon without killing himself or harming himself. Without the Force, Maul's a Zabrak with a potential saberwound in the making.

You're right, Janus, The Vader fans are treating Vader like he's god or something. You must see that there is a possibility that Mace can win.

Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
and how can this be proven?
couldn't you argue Anakin or Obi-Wan could be better? they're not fragile or old


you're missing the point.....they are better. do you think that if yoda didnt use the force, and never had it, that he could do all those flips and live for that long? if none of them ever had the force, Maul is the best with a saber.

my personal bias is me speaking the truth....janus you can do me a favor and never talk down towards, or about me ever again, ever. im here about the facts, if maul was matched up against sumone he couldnt beat, i would admit it. i just happen to like him, doesnt make him the best. so dont try and say things about me that arent true, got it?

HA HAHAHAHAHA
banned

I was talking down to him, was I? I thought I was spewing more useless facts.

Am I the only one who thinks jackstain sits in his room masturbating to the Darth Maul fight scene every night?

Could be. He's a fan of double-enders, too.

I'll bet he goes both ways...

And the horns..? Think about it...

Dear God, I'm glad he was banned

So am I. I was getting tired of seeing posts with lower caps, omg, and Maul pics everywhere.

Yeah, that guy needs help.
btw, Vader would win

Nope. Mace would win. Old clunky Vader isn't quite the man he used to be. I don't see it happening.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Vader may be in a suit, but as we all know, Anakin/Vader is always trying to make himself better, and it seems to me that he would tinker with the suit to make himself more effective in combat. Mace would probably be one of the best fights Vader would ever have, but Vader would still take him down.

He could make himself a Mandalorian power suit and he'd still get pwned, man. There is no way old Vader could manage it.

And why not? Because Mace is seen as Yoda's equal?
The connection Anakin/Vader has to the force never leaves him, because the lightside created him. Even in his robot suit, only Luke or Sidious would be able to take him.

Again, you're quoting prophecy. And prophecy undermines the very idea of such a versus match. Assuming fate was different and Vader was to fight Mace Windu, he would almost certainyl lose.

Well, okay I'll agree with that, but the fact is the prophecy does exist, because they say it in the movies, and the movies are more credible than the books.
however, I still think robo Vader has more power, but Mace's saber skills would enable him to keep alive or possibly (only possibly IMHO) win.

Well, if you're giving your opinion based on how the movies went and the prophecy therein, it's not exactly an objective, informed opinion. Better to make a decision from an unbiased, outside viewpoint, taking all things into account. By dragging the movies into EU versus threads, and hanging the prophecy out there like a dame for all to see, it just undermines your validity.

But, by ignoring the prophecy, which is something you should take into consideration, doesn't that undermine your validity as well?

Not at all. The prophecy is set in stone, but what we have here is conjecture. It's fantasy, really. What if... what if... what if... If you hold the prophecy up as your sole reasoning, you remove the What if entirely, and you have the movies, again.

WHOA! Nefarus, you treat the prophecy the way Christians treat God! Release your grip on it! The prophecy only stated that the chosen one will bring balance to the force. Anakin did it by killing Sidious, but he certainly didn't do so by overpowering him. He completely caught Sidious off guard, there was nothing the old fart could have done to stop him. And besides, no where in the prophecy did it say "Anakin whips everyone's ass, no contest". Obi-Wan clearly proved that wrong in ROTS. He did so by defeating a much more powerful version of Vader. I think Mace can take this battle. Besides, if Vader could adjust his suit, why didn't he do so against Obi-Wan in ANH? He clearly had no conflict in him when he fought Obi-Wan. On the contrary, he was probably dying to kill the very man who made him lose half his body.

Well I regard the prophecy so highly because the fact is, Anakin was created by the force, he has more of a connection to it than ANYONE. And thus, when he joins the darkside he is more powerful than ANYONE.
I admit mech Vader isn't as strong, but he's still incredibly powerful(ask the Jedi who got purged)

And how do you know he never adjusted the suit? We can't fully know because back then(I've said this before) they didn't have the resources to make fights as visually exciting as they are in the PT.

I always used to think that the one of the reasons why they made ANH, ESB, and ROTJ first is because they probably realized that the Prequels will require a lot of highly-choreographed battles. Take Yoda vs. Dooku for example. So they decided to stick with the OT movies because the combatants aren't as skilled and considerably slower. It makes sense but then again I'm speculating.

It is NOT fact that Anakin was created by the Force, or else it would not have been worded so loosely in the database, of that I am certain. He may indeed be part of some prophecy (Which, the idea of entertaining a prophecy in a universe where the will of the Force is everywhere is ridiculous) but he is only considered to be born of the Force based on hearsay, not fact.

And assuming the prophecy is true (note that this is a premise in a logical deduction) than Anakin IS closer to the Force than any living being, he still isn't immortal, and certainly isn't the best fighter of all time.

And lastly, for the love of all that is holy, Vader's suit was far from tweaked with, so let's let it go.

Did you even watch Episode 1? Shmi Skywalker clearly indicates to Qui-Gonn that she couldn't explain Anakin's conception, THERE WAS NO FATHER. GL has even said before that Anakin was created by the force and therefore it is a FACT.
And I'll never let the issue of Vader tinkering with his suit go!
lol
I'm more stubborn than you know.

You certainly are. I'm about to ground you from TV or something else drastic.

And I'm aware of that, but I still think it's BS. Lucas probably doesn't think any deeper than the six movies when it comes to spouting stuff off, and Shmi is hardly a credible witness to anything... phew..

OK, Nefarus, your theory of Anakin being concieved by the force is BELIEVABLE but your saying of Vader tinkering his suit IMO is just a wild conjecture.

I am the reborn white version of mace windu
and i can tell you in my past life i kicked his ass

lol, well there you have it

Originally posted by Uber_God
I am the reborn white version of mace windu
and i can tell you in my past life i kicked his ass

good for you...I think

so does your wallet still say bad mother f*ck*r?

mace would win no contest

dude, i'm sorry, mace would get his d*ck sliced, his ass handed to him and his balls thrown in his own mouth

windu i mean it would be a great fight but mace would take this one

mace has form seven he wins

VADER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vader loses. Hate to break it to you guys. Here's a tissue...

ya vader does lose....ROTJ, against luke, i saw it, good movie........but against windu....meh eh, never happen.

Mace takes this, easy.

Mace come very close to beating Sidious if it weren't for Anakin. If he can do that, he can destroy Darth Vader easily.

nah

Sidious let Mace win. He would have pwned him if Anakin wasn't a factor, but he was. He wanted Anakin to turn on Mace.

A question, maybe I missed the answer somewhere in the thread. Are we talking about mech Vader or pre-suit Vader?

i think mech vader

I'm not seeing how Mecha-Vader could own Mace Windu. Not at all.

same here

Originally posted by ArthasKnight
Sidious let Mace win. He would have pwned him if Anakin wasn't a factor, but he was. He wanted Anakin to turn on Mace.




A question, maybe I missed the answer somewhere in the thread. Are we talking about mech Vader or pre-suit Vader?

Sidious DID NOT LET Mace win.... Mace is the BEST fighter in the Jedi Order, the guy was a Jedi Master at age 28, and MADE his very own Jedi art in Vaapad (that uses the dark side, without being consumed by the dark side).

*SPOILER*



Sidious would have died, if it was not for Anakin.

Chosen One my ass. He prolonged the darkness and let Sidious live. Some prophecy.

Mace is badass. Wanna know why? Check out his lightsaber...

Mech Vader would stomp out mace so bad.

No, no he wouldn't. Mace damn near killed Sidious if he hadn't been betrayed by Anakin. And since Sidious could beat Mech vader around with one shriveled hand I think Mace takes this one.

Mace is exceptional, but he only "beat" Sidious because Sidious was setting a trap for Anakin.
Mace would lose to Vader, in a very, VERY close duel.

Originally posted by Darth_Nefarus
Mace is exceptional, but he only "beat" Sidious because Sidious was setting a trap for Anakin.
Mace would lose to Vader, in a very, VERY close duel.

Why do people always think that people never try as hard as they can. Is everyone a slacker? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sidious does lose to mace on purpose, so that anakin will turn to the dark side and kill mace.

if sidious wanted, he wuld have destroyed mace if wanted/needed to

Right. So let me get this straight...

Vader lost to Luke because he wasn't trying to win.

Obi Wan lost to Vader because he wasn't trying to win.

Sidious almost lost to Mace because he wasn't trying to win.

Did Qui Gon and Yoda throw their fights too?

Well the Vader luke thing might be true, he was probably conflicted and didn't really know what to do... He didn't want to lose either thats for sure otherwise he would have just killed himself, but i'd probably didn't do him any good that he was fighting his son.

we all know Obi one raised his lightsaber and closed his eyes, if that isn't a bulletproof way to lose then i don't know what is.... The rest probably didn't throw their fights they would have absolutly no reason too. Only Obi did, and Vader was just to confused about things to trully put himself in 100%

I'm just curious why Sidious would need to throw a fight with Mace. If he could have defeated Mace Windu in combat, and he seemingly DID defeat Yoda in combat, why did he need Anakin at all?

Oh wait... that's a plot loop that probably snuck up on GL. Silly director, prequels are for professionals.

I really wouldn't know... Don't think there is any reason for something stupid like that