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Lately there has been some things I've noticed that I need to get off my chest.

I've noticed that a large amount of people on this music forum have problems with referring to bands grammatically correct. I'm not going to name names, but 90% of the time I've read posts that are similar to the following:

"Metallica are awesome!"
"Tool are overrated!"
"Simple Plan are the worst band I've ever heard!"

This is grammatically incorrect. When referring to a band, though there are more than one member, the band itself is a single entity. Therefore it needs to be referred to as a single entity. Observe:
"Metallica is awesome!"
"Tool is overrated!"
"Simple Plan is the worst bands I've ever heard!"

When referring to a band name that is used in a sentence with an intransitive verb, it is referred to in the plural form, because it's also present tense. Observe:

Grammatically Incorrect Way:
"Dude, Pantera rock!"

Grammatically Correct Way:
"Dude, Pantera rocks!"

Now, there are some exceptions. When a band's names is in plural form (i.e. - The Hives, The Strokes, The Vines) it is referred to as multiple entities:

"The Hives are one of my favorite bands."
"The Strokes are potheads."
"The Vines are great live!"

NOT like this:

"The Hives is one of my favorite bands."
"The Strokes is potheads."
"The Vines is great live!"

Now I bet at this point some of you are saying that you really don't care about your grammar and spelling because it's just a forum, and I understand that, but most likely you really need to fix this before you make a grammatical mistake on something important. And plus it's really, really annoying to read. I have not flamed or bashed any particular members, or members in general for that matter, so don't bash me. Take my advice if you want. I meant no offense by it.

Thanks.

Factually it can be said both ways.

You can view them as a singular entity or not.

They have members therefore you can refer to them as such.

It's not grammatically incorrect to do either.

As for it being annoying to read, I think it's much more annoying when someone says "Tool is playing at New York" rather than "Tool are playing at New York."

For example. Marilyn Manson had a band. He still released albums under the name. Therefore people referred to him as "is" coz the man was the focal point and people singled him out. So while unconventional, you can say "Marilyn Manson are great" coz it was also the name of the collective at the time. A Tool is a singular thing in reality, multiples of that singular item are "Tools". However, the band are called Tool as a collective. So you can refer to them as one or as multiple. When the title of the band is in reality, a singular item (Tool/A Tool), you can obviously use the word "is" to label them. However, you can also use ARE because in the context use, they are a collective. The Hives as a band name is already a plural, therefore using "Is" would factually be gramatically incorrect. If they were called The Hive, you could refer to them as are AND is. Because a HIVE is a singular thing also made up of many things.

You prefer singular, I prefer plural/multiple.

It's preference. It's also a term used, from my experience, mainly in America. I've never met a British person who uses "is" to describe a band. Maybe that's because we can handle non-literal spellings.

If you are going to be so outrightly bold as to make judgement calls on something as precise as the English language, you should make sure you are 100% absolutely right before labelling something or someone, incorrect.

Just a thought.

-AC

No, it is not. My mom is an English & Literature graduate, I know the English language fine. When referring to an entity that is in singular form, verbs in the singular form are always used. When referring to an entity in plural form, verbs in the plural form are used.

Groups of people whose members aren't specified are always referred to as one entity.

Don't fight with AC-he always wins.

There's one problem: he doesn't know what he's talking about.

"No, it is not. My mom is an English & Literature graduate, I know the English language fine. When referring to an entity that is in singular form, verbs in the singular form are always used. When referring to an entity in plural form, verbs in the plural form are used.

Groups of people whose members aren't specified are always referred to as one entity."

I'm not saying you are wrong. You are not wrong.

Neither are those who refer to them as a multiple collective. Which is what a band is. I don't need to specify members because I always refer to a band as a multiple.

It's not wrong, it's preference. Just because your Mum graduated English it doesn't qualify you to come in here and tell people they're wrong when they're not.

I aced English so I know what I'm talking about and if that isn't good enough and you still have problems, I'm sure they'll be settled when Victor Von Doom and his English Masters/Bachelor degree come in and straighten things out.

Don't jump in the deep end if you can't swim unaided. It's down to preference.

-AC

AC always knows what he is talking about otherwise he wouldnt say anything at all

"AC always knows what he is talking about otherwise he wouldnt say anything at all"

Precisely.

People mistake arrogance for assurance. I don't make judgement calls on something as precise as this without knowing what I'm saying. That would be entirely foolish.

You are saying that it's wrong for a band to be referred to as a multiple entity. A band HAS to have multiple people, just because it doesn't have a plural name, does not constitute them having an iron-clad singular name.

-AC

I'm fully equipped to handle whatever you say. I'm right. Titles of literary works, works of art, organizations (bands), cities, and countries are usually singular even if they are plural in form.

I don't give a crap if he is good at arguing, he's not correct!

..and what makes you so perfect??

From Purdue:
"10. Collective nouns are words that imply more than one person but that are considered singular and take a singular verb, such as: group, team, committee, class, and family.

In very few cases, the plural verb is used if the individuals in the group are thought of and specifically referred to."

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/esl/eslsubverb.html

Go a Google search. Every entry proves my case.

Raise your hand everyone who gives a good god damn.

It's the internet, people are going to use bad grammar, get over it.

You didn't have to give your opinion if you don't care.

I'd love to know where the opinion in my previous post is. People use bad grammar on the internet, and that's a fact. I suggest you get over it, because a totally pointless and very soon to be forgotten thread in a forum which is (as you may have gathered by the title) is about music, not grammatical accuracy, is not going to change that.

edit

"I'm fully equipped to handle whatever you say. I'm right. Titles of literary works, works of art, organizations (bands), cities, and countries are usually singular even if they are plural in form."

You are right. I stated such.

I'm not wrong though. You are wrong for saying that bands cannot be referred to in the singular term.

Google searching? Comedic to say the very least.

"I don't give a crap if he is good at arguing, he's not correct!"

Yes, yes I am. So are you. It's down to preference. I'm so tragically sorry that you typed out all that in your first post expecting people to say "Oh well....sorry." and didn't have that come to pass.

You are wrong for thinking I am wrong.

The reason people refer to Tool as "is", would be because a TOOL in reality is a SINGULAR item. You don't say "Look how many Tool in that toolbox." However, in a band, there are multiple members. Having a name which relates to a singularly titled object, does NOT equate to BEING one and it most CERTAINLY does not render obsolete the ability to refer to them as a collective with a singular name. Get it right.

Tired of arguing? It was no argument. It was ease. Let this be a lesson to you of what happens when you try to nail down something half-truthful about the English language whilst in the same breath telling people such as myself, who aced English, that they are wrong.

-AC

I wasn't expecting anyone to say "Oh well....sorry."

I'm going to go eat soup. It are good. But I can say "are" because it has lots of different items in it, even though it has a singular name.

BTW, I aced English too.

Oh sorry, I take it all back. You were completely right, I never should've posted anything. You're obviously a better and more important person than me and should not be argued with.

Public forum buddy, you don't like people arguing with you, feel free to **** off anytime.

"BTW, I aced English too."

Apparently not if you actually believe that "are" is not applicable to bands.

That's really all there is to it. It IS down to preference regardless of what you wanna post.

Until everyone becomes a one-man band, ARE will apply.

Example: Soccer team entitled "Arsenal". Arsenal is a really good team or group of players?

Both are applicable. Singular and plural.

-AC

I wouldn't bother Acey, 'Mane' just made a big dramatic KMC exit

Apparently we suck too.

OK, here's my two cents on this:

If the band's name is singular (Weezer, Modest Mouse) you can use 'is'. Modest Mouse is awesome. Modest Mouse are awesome. Say those out loud. Which makes more sense?

The FBI is investigating a crime. The FBI are investigation a crime. Again, say it outloud.

But if the band's name is plural (The Beatles, Rolling Stones), then you use are. The Beatles is awesome. The Beatles are awesome.

It's acceptable to use both, that's because if you say 'Tool are excellent', it's not a collective noun in that case, what it is is a contracted sentence.

When somebody says Tool are awesome, they don't mean the singular entity which consists of members 'are' awesome, because that would be 'is'. They mean something like 'the guys in Tool' are awesome. If you wish to find a grammatical error, it's there.

"If the band's name is singular (Weezer, Modest Mouse) you can use 'is'. Modest Mouse is awesome. Modest Mouse are awesome. Say those out loud. Which makes more sense?

Both are applicable in the case of bands without "The" at the beginning, or plurals. Singular names do not equate to singular entity.

-AC

I kinda sorta agree with Mane.

He is right. He was never completely wrong besides telling everyone else they were.

Both are acceptable.

-AC

w00t! go us...DID YOU HEAR THAT WE SUCK!!

lets celebrate our misfortune kicking

when i was doing English language for A-level (many moons go) I was told that it was proper to use the singular for a group that is seen as a single entity, except where it was desirable to lay emphasis on the fact that such a group was itself made up of separate entities... and I was told that by a guy who helps edit the OED....

oh how I hate english classes