** The MISUNDERSTOOD Religon **

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



room #99
Hello, the misunderstood religon is islam :

"Islam" which comes from the word "Salam" which means in english " Peace"

peace of mind
peace of soul
peace in the afterlife

You might have heard that islam is the religon of terroists, well that why they call it the misunderstood religon. and to found why you have to discover islam smile

Here are some sites that can get you to know about Islam and its Ethics (Peace)

http://www.discoverislam.com/

www.islam-qa.com

http://www.islamworld.net/

http://www.islam101.com/

ARC Trooper 117
No offense, but this might acquate itself with SPAM.....

Beastro
Islam is nowhere near a peaceful religion.There opposed to anyone who doesnt follow them and in some nations people are beheaded for not following them.There against peace and freedom and thats why there fighting the United States because its what we stand for.

finti
thats extremists that abuse the religion of islam, even chrisitains have extremist that will kill for their cause. The Davidians as an example

Jackie Malfoy
WHy do you think it is misunderstood?I know what it is and so does other people,I also respect different kind of religon even if I don't argee with it or not.JM

clickclick
Why dont you?

Celestialgirl
Not all people who follow the religion of Islam are bad. The religion is not evil, it is the people who mutated the religion into what it is today. It does say in one of their books that all men and women are equal-yet you can't see that in places like Iraq.

Beastro
Not only extremist.Islams in other countries behead christians for teaching what they believe.How is that a peaceful religion?

Adam_PoE
Christians in this country want to prevent same-sex couples from being able to visit one another in the hospital. How is that a peaceful religion?

finti
examples please....................
What I love is when christians do hideous crimes the excuse is that they aint real christians so it aint about the religion at all. When someone from a different religion does the same it is the entire religion that is evil and not the single person. What a bunch of hypocrites

MC Mike
Ok, I'm glad many people are being respectful - but some comments are over the top.

Islam is a very peaceful religion. Did you know the original reason women were veiled was to prevent abuse?

SamiKismet
I completely agree in saying that Islam as the most misunderstood religion.

What about the anti-Christ rule in Christianity? From another christian, not a written source, I was informed that all who believe christ's nonexistance should be ... how can I put it nicely, killed?

Extremist are in every religion, like it or not. One person's false act should not be accounted to judge a whole population. If you look at the most prominent example, Hitler, we can not say that the people of his faith are likely to go around killing anybody in their path.

And what of the crusades? Should I say that all Christians are this way?

Darth Revan
Obviously you know NOTHING about Islam. You've just swallowed everything the media has been telling you about Islam, which is absolutely false. The word "Jihad" doesn't mean "holy war" as you may have been told, it means "conflict". Jihad is any kind of conflict, and under the religious context, it is a conflict in the name of God. More often than not, it is an internal conflict. People who use Jihad as an excuse to commit terrorist acts are extremists who are misusing their religion. In the Qu'ran it says that actual war is only acceptible if someone is preventing you from practicing your religion. Not even oppressing you in another sense, they must be stopping you from being a Muslim. Islam teaches peace and tolerance towards all people more than anything else.

Islam also teaches that Jews and Christians are "people of the book" who basically have the right idea about religion and are treated as fellow Muslims, but who follow outdated and misinterpreted versions of the truth. How nice of Christianity to return the favor.

debbiejo
We're not beheading them, though! That's peaceful

debbiejo
I never said that. I know there are peaceful Muslims. There are extremests in almost every group.

Adam_PoE

debbiejo
I don't see anything wrong with them visiting in the hospital, living together, working where I do. I have had gay friends where I work, but I don't believe they should be legally married and have married benefits.

It's Just my opinion

Adam_PoE
Because a relationship of two people of the same-sex is undeserving of the the benefits of a relationship of two people of the opposite-sex how?

Napalm
no adam gays can visit people in hospitals anybody can vists someone in a hospital dont worry no one is gonna stop you from visting your little friend

Adam_PoE
No, only immediate family members have the automatic right to visit one another in the hospital or to make medical decisions for a loved one. Same-sex couples can be denied the right to visit a sick or injured loved one in the hospital. Next time, refrain from posting unless you know what you are talking about.

debbiejo
Then....I don't think that's right. You should be able to visit.

moviejunkie23
"People who use Jihad as an excuse to commit terrorist acts are extremists who are misusing their religion. "
"In the Qu'ran it says that actual war is only acceptible if someone is preventing you from practicing your religion."

this is from the koran.....
"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

looks like your not just going to kill people that hinder your practice of religeon according to the koran. It appears that they are instructed to seek you out and murder you. "slay them wherever you find them", this means not as a act of defense but rather when you find them kill them. These are directions from the koran.

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

I thought you said that they teach that christians and jews "have the right idea of religeon," it appears you are also misguided in this. How much more point blank can you take this quote other than islam is the only way.

here you need more for that point?
"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18)
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

that is from the koran
you say
"Islam also teaches that Jews and Christians are "people of the book" who basically have the right idea about religion and are treated as fellow Muslims,"

sounds like you are grossly misrepresenting islam in the very least

does not sound like that great respect you have described.

you have also said "Islam teaches peace and tolerance towards all people more than anything else."

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)- koran
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

This is from their own koran. They are directed to behave this way. Sure there are good muslims that don't go around and slaughter people and are hate mongers of other people, BUT, is this what the koran teaches?? You have the peacefull muslims out there but the question is What does the Koran teach. Well according to the koran probably 95 percent of us in these threads( saying for the sake of argument 5 percent of us are islamic) should be killed. Don't try to water down what is written in the Koran. It teaches to slaughter those who are not islamic. People that kill in the name of islam are doing as they are instructed by there book.

SamiKismet
All I will say is that any book of God, whether the Bible, Torah or Qur'an, can be misinterprated to mean many different things.

Look at Jehova witnesses, don't they go around telling everyone of their religion? Don't they believe that it is the only religion that will lead to salvation? Again, you are forgetting the Crusades. It was a holy war in which christians were the wrong-doers. (no offense intended)

In Qur'an, (sorry I can not quote you a surah since any website you go to is forgery and provides false information to darken the religion by quoting a part of the whole, the part that will lead others to the wrong path) it says to attack the ones who attack you ONLY. Meaning that they come towards you with a sword with full intention of killing. During the many wars in the early years of Islam, Muhammad (the Prophet) strictly ordered his believers to slay whoever attacks you, leave the women and the children and do not force your religion upon others. Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammad and if you look at the correct historical texts, not the forged websites, you will see the truth.

moviejunkie23
"All I will say is that any book of God, whether the Bible, Torah or Qur'an, can be misinterprated to mean many different things. "

sure it is true anyone can manipulate anything they want to, but to incite violence the koran does not need to be manipulated, only followed.
On the other hand how can you mis read christ that says those who live by the sword die by the sword, also he says to love your enemyand pray for them, also he says not to cast stones.
The Koran on the otherhand you are justified in killing someone. I got these quotes from the koran, if you do not agree with them then go look them up were they are in the koran is written next to the quotes.
ok raven made the same point that is says only attack when you are attacked or if your religeon is in danger, ok here ....""Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)" this is stating to wage wars to unbelievers plain and simple, you do not need to misquote this to do harm to others. People that are islamic and do harmfull things to others are justified by the koran to do so. THIS IS NOT MANIPULATING THE KORAN!! it is following it.
IX. 5-6: " Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them."
"when you encounter those infedels who deny islam then strike their necks" (sura 47 verse 4)
so for instance all of those people that have had their heads cut off on camera, that was directed by the koran to any followers that took it literal. They are not taking anything out of context, they are following how their religeon is taught.
On the other hand when one of jesus disciples cut off a mans ear jesus rebuked him and healed the man and stated, "those that live by the sword die by the sword"
You must see there is a difference between the teachings. Its as plain as day. One religeon you are justified in killing a man the other one you are urged to love your enemies and to pray for those that persecute you.

Darth Revan
I will admit that I have not read the entire Qu'ran, but then neither have you. I noticed that the first passage isn't even complete. Where did you find these quotes? I don't doubt that they are there, but if you think such notions are unique to Islam you need to crack open your Bible and read some of the book of Leviticus, much of which, I will remind you, is not followed by Christians. Not all of the Bible is to be taken literally and not all of the Qu'ran or the Torah is to be taken literally either. The things I said were mostly things I've heard firsthand from Muslims.

If you want what I think is a very accurate representation of Islam as a whole, read some of this site. English obviously isn't the guy's first language, and the spelling/grammar is a little off in a lot of places, but it's still an interesting read.

http://www.islam-message.com/en/423.htm

moviejunkie23

DirectorFitz
finti, if a christian kills in the name of christian faith, then they have a false faith...it says everywhere in the bible that murder is a sin...

finti
murder and killing aint considered as the same, and it doesnt say it everywhere in the bible, and the same bible tells stories of a murdering god, the flood, Sodome and Gomorrah the exodus. What a confused bunch of followers you are, one day it is ok the next it aint.

this is what christians always hide behind, all other religion are brutal people buthcering in the name of their religion , but oh the crhistians that have doen it aint christians. Always trying to run away from their past.

Napalm
Guss what? No one gives a ****

finti
dont speak on behalf of others especially with ignorant crap like that

SamiKismet

moviejunkie23
so what keeps a muslim from excercising its violence whenever it feels its neccassary like for instance the twin towers. State what it says in the koran that would prevent a terrible act such as that. I quoted to you dozens of lines in the koran that back it up

((( "never would We destroy towns unless...." it is saying that God (Allah) will not do harm unless so and so, it is not in a Muslim's authority or power to punish whoever is not following the religion. Allah will take care of whatever has do be done. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed for voilence UNLESS it's a war. You need to make note of that.)))

You don't think that you can easily read the koran as promoting to help destroy those villages by it saying "slay them wherever you find them"
"Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah, oppressors and tyrants)"
those are the people that are stated are fair game to kill in that village that they are instructed are to destroy. look closley....wrong doers??? They consider homosexuality to be wrong. That means they have open reign to kill them if homosexuality is accepted. disbelivers in the oneness of allah??? so if your not islam you are in the group of people that are to be killed in this village as well.
Lets make this clear also and i will say it again "SLAY THEM WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM!!!"
The thing is you state that these things are only supposed to be followed when in war, well according to slay them wherever you find them and other wordage that would point towards being on the offensive and not defensive it is open game for a war anytime you feel its a good idea. Why do you think there are so many conflicts in the middle east?? maybe its because they are following the directions of the koran.
So yes Only do these natrasities against non muslims unless they repent in a time of war. How would you feel if a christian put someone to sword point and said repent or die, only during a time of war of course, is that ok or would you think that thats a bad behavior?
And i might add if a christiand DOES do that behavior he is going against the instruction from the teachings of jesus himself.
As opposed to a follower that can lop off your head if you refuse to become islamic according to the koran, only in war of course right?? that makes genocide and conversion by the sword ok??

"this is what christians always hide behind, all other religion are brutal people buthcering in the name of their religion , but oh the crhistians that have doen it aint christians. Always trying to run away from their past."- finti

christians that do terrible things are going agaisnt their teachings. There is something there to try to prevent it. What is in the koran that prevents these sort of terrible actions?? i have given you quotes from the koran that back it up.
what was in the viking belief system anyway that prevented vikings to butcher and rape people??? You are ready to point at the christians for past wrong doings and the such but as someone who is a decendant of vikings you must no how ruthless and bloodthirsty your past peoples were.

"murder and killing aint considered as the same, and it doesnt say it everywhere in the bible, and the same bible tells stories of a murdering god, the flood, Sodome and Gomorrah the exodus. What a confused bunch of followers you are, one day it is ok the next it aint."

Who is confused? Its god wrath not humans. Jesus said himself vengance is the lords. Then he instucts very clear that christians are not to be the hand of the wrath but rather the hand of mercy and love.
Its very clear.

SamiKismet
"Refrain from harming others for this will be egarded as a cheritable deed for your own good" (3:694 - O.B.).

Islam says to offer respect even to the slaves. " one should not say, 'My slave,' or 'My slave-girl', but he should say 'My lad', "my lass' and 'My boy'" (3:734 - O.B.).

"Alla's messanger (Muhammad) named War: Deceit"

During war times, narrated Abu Musa, the Prophet said, "Free the captives, feed the hungry and pay a visit to the sick" (4:282 - o.b.).

So you see in these few examples, Islam teaches peace and forbids maltreatment of anyone, whether they are Muslims or not.
I say it again, instead of going to different websites in hopes of finding the answers to your query, I suggest you get a translation of Qur'an and see things with your own eyes and open yourself to a fair interpretation. By saying Qur'an teaches voilence is unjust to the Muslims. Those who attacked America on 2001 were nothing but extremist who take verses of Qur'an and morph them into their own meanings. They MISINTERPETED it. Do not do the same thing as them.

SamiKismet
Moviejunkie.. you are mistaken. For the wrongdoers in Qur'an for the Muslims, it is said that they will be punished in Hell and will have a life full of frustrations... THEY CAN NOT GO FREE. What about what you are doing to Iraq and Afghanistan? You killed millions of people and named that "casualties are part of war." Is it not the same thing as killing during times of war? Muslims believe to attack and kill only the ones that confront you and that was in the days of swords and such, MASS KILLING AND MURDER IS FORBIDDEN AND GREATLY PUNISHABLE BY ALLAH. No where in the teachings of Qur'an the terrorist were justified in doing what they did. No where in the teachings of Qur'an are they justified for beheading innocent captives. Even the captives are taught, by Muhammad, to treat them with respect once they provide no resistance.

Where exactly in the Qur'an does it say to "slay wherever you find them." You will do me a favor by looking it up. DO NOT TAKE A VERSE AND JUDGE THE WHOLE QUR'AN BY IT. They are great punishments for Muslims who don't follow the teachings of Islam where peace is the number one thing. If you are one to cause mayhem among the innocent, you are to punished with full strength.

Islam does not forgive Muslim wrongdoers. Infact, if they do such vile acts, they are not to be called Muslim at all but one of the Zalimun.

finti
Vikings came from a warrior cult where violence was part of their religion. So they didnt do anything wrong from their point of view, bloodshed was part of their beliefs. We who are descendants of the Vikings havent ran away and tried to distance ourself from the past either, unlike the christians. The Viking age started as a countermove towards the Vatican's political, economical and religious goal of Northern Europe through Charlemagne( Charles 1)expansion.
Take the crusaders they were just as bad as the Vikings and they had their deeds blessed by the church, a church who accepted anything to increase their influence and wealth, a church that preach one thing and do the opposite.


stop calling your god just and loving then, cause all this god is aint nothing but a ruthless vindictive butcher

MC Mike
Alright, first off, pulling hate quotes out of the Qu'ran does not help any argument, the Bible is a block of hate speech as well.

Secondly, being a fasict and denying gays happiness is not the subject of this thread, don;t go down that path.

Darth Revan
WTF? You took one thing and completely jumped to a conclusion about it. That passage didn't say anything about literally killing people who sin, it just says not to ignore them. Now, you could take that one way and kill them, which is what our suicide bomber friends do. Or, you could do something called TALKING to them and teaching them about your religion. Which, although possibly irritating, is exactly what Christians try to do.

finti
we call that annoying and pointless chit chat

debbiejo
But I still converse with you. wink

finti
who said it wasnt anything but pointless chit chat though

debbiejo
I guess those who evolved from lower organisms are allowed an opinion.

alic88
I am a Muslim.. i believe that Islam is a really misunderstood religion. why? because people judge Islam by what they see on the news? whats on the news? EXTREMISTS,TERRORISTS claiming2b Muslims when actually they r not, killing innocent people. it happens in every religion, but i must admit thaat Islam's downfall these days is how the media is portraying it, Islam is a religion of peace, like every other religion. and some1 explained "Jihad" very well, its not murdering, its fighting for self defence and fighting for the cause of Allah.
As a muslim i ask to PLEASE NOT JUDGE muslims by what u see on television, its not true, its sad because some narrow minded come up to school to me( i live in texas these days) and say. "HEY DO U KNOW WHERE USAMA IS HIDING" or"WHY DOES UR RELIGION KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE"

its just extremism that makes our religion look bad.. only difference, ours is portrayed in the media all the time

lil bitchiness
The mistake you are ALL in this thread making is that you're looking at everything as black and white. And you are looking at world from one perspective assuming we all have the similar culture patterns, but guess what new we dont all have the same cultural patterns. new

Thats why comparing what Christians in west did and Muslims in middle east did and how each behave is absolutely redundant!

In Middle East, two men holding hands and walking down the street is seen as absolutely and completely normal - but this doesnt mean homosexuality is accepted!

What Christians do in America and what Muslims do in Africa and Asia should not be comparative - because it will tell you absolutely ZERO about religion.

finti
what does tell us if not the behavior of the faithfuls

debbiejo
faithfuls.....Good

Unfaithful....bad

finti
lame

Bardock42
hahaha this is so easy for christians, whenjever they don't like something a "former christian" does they just say that he/she/it is not christian anymore

debbiejo
Can you go into more detail in what you're talking about? smile

ARC Trooper 117
Like when a Christian Extremist commits hate-crimes or murder against another for not being a Christian, and then the Church saying that he was not truly a Christian - that he strayed from the path, or some crap like that. wink

debbiejo
I think Christians are judged by their actions. There are many who call themselves Christians that, by their actions, are not. I don't believe once a Christian, always a Christian, or once saved always saved. Maybe someone was at one time..didn't like it and changed to something else, or no belief at all...that person can become a Christian again at anytime, and no one can anything about it...

Is this what you're asking...?

ARC Trooper 117
Asking?
It's best if I don't reply to thread's like this, because I'm an avid anti-Christian. yes
Though I occasionally open up to some of them....wink

Tell me then, if these people aren't "really Christian", then what do you think about the hundreds, (possibly thousands), of "Christians" who would burn people at the cross and kill and maim those who did not follow their religion in the Middle Ages, and even long after?
Do you consider them to not be "Christian" as well - even though they were the ones who instituted the modern day Catholic Church? :rolleyes
:

debbiejo
I don't consider any action that was against the teaching of Christ to be killing, maiming, boiling them alive or slottering them in any way. But the Muslims were doing the same things too during the crusades. It was ALL evil. And the Catholic church was evil in its doings. People forget what all they did.

ARC Trooper 117
I don't understand by what you mean when you say: "I don't consider any action that was against the teaching of Christ to be killing, maiming, boiling them alive or slottering them in any way."

What the f**k?
emperor

debbiejo
What I meant was, anyone who does these evils, including a church, is not following Christs teachings.. The Crusasdes were not done by Christ. It was done by the Catholic church who took it upon themselves to do the things they did. The inquisitions were not Christs command, again it was the Catholic church.

finti
christians are christians regardless denomination, the fact that they cant even agree on how to follow this bible just tells about the flaws of christianity as a religion

debbiejo
How should they follow it? I don't agree with any of the denominations.
That's what causes so many problems.

leonheartmm
u know what, u might think that islam is misintrprated by the people who are called extremists but then why are u so sure that their interpretation of the quran is wrong and urs is write, its just a matter of oppinion isnt it, in reality almost all relegions are based on fake facts and logics, and trying to CLEAR the name of islam or any other relegion is bull, but i will admit that the media only shows the bad side of islam, as much as i am opposed to islam i have to say that its actually better than many other relegions{how come we never get to see the bad side of hinduism, or christianity or jewism}

SamiKismet
We do see bad sides if you look at historical records. Because of the recent events, Islam is just being put on the stage.

As far as clearing the name of any religion is important and necessary to get the right idea across. They are not misinterprating(sp?) the Qur'an only but morphing it to fit their belief system. There is some branch in Christianity who does the same thing, I've merely heard about it and it's just one of the many that have popped up, that does the same thing. If it's something they like, then it is acceptable - regardless of the fact whether it is prohibited or not. It is necessary now for the ones opposing the religion Islam so they understand and not discriminate against the Muslims. While I was in my sophomore year (during Sep. 2001), just after the attacks a fellow classmate was raving and how we (as in america) should bomb all islamic nations, namely Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Arab etc.. It is very important to understand that islam is not the way it is potrayed and just on the basis of few extremist, one should not push them away and mar their status in the world. In many other nations, Christianity has a bad name and they hate Christians! They believe it is the basis and source of satan, debauchery and many other things that are wrong if you really look into the relgion! Wouldn't you want to clear them out of their concience and allow them to accept Christians into their hometowns, accept them as their neighbors? It is very important to understand the reality.

finti
the bible says how you should follow it

The Alpha
Ok. I am a Muslim here. Anybody else?

And please... if ANY of you have ANY thing in your mind about Islam that you think shouldn't be like the way it exists, then do tell me. I'll try my best to answer. smile You can ask any question for information.

Stay cool.

finti
why follow it at all

SamiKismet
WHy follow any religion you do? I'm sorry, but that was truly a comment not worth making. You are attacking a belief system, many can be offended by it. And yes, I am a Muslim. I follow Islam because of what it teaches: peace and respect to others.

finti
so.

dont need to follow a religion to be thaught that, and Islam doesnt show too much respect towards other religions, just like some other big religion discussed in this thread

SamiKismet
What way do you mean that? We believe that all other religions, Judaism (sp?), christianity and other monothiestic ones, were taught by messangers of God, therefore they are His teachings. To regard them as inferior to ours or disrespect them in any way is considered a disregard towards His teachings, which is in its own way a sin.

finti
yeah try to set up an Odinist temple in Mecca or Riyadh or Islamabad

alic88
^huh?. i dont get wht ur tryin2say

SamiKismet
I agree with that statement. You can not set up some other temple in an Islamic nation. But I guess you did not read some of my last posts. During the rise of Islam, if Muslims conquer a land they were to give them choice to accept or decline the religion, if they choose to decline, they were given protection from the Muslims and allowed to do as they please. The only option was, indeed, to not to display their faith in large numbers.

That has nothing to do with respecting our teachings of other's religions. We have to respect others... plain and simple. Take it from me, I'm a muslim. I am not allowed to insult or degrade or offend any body else's religion. I have to remain in my boundries.

Look into Islam's correct history, you will find what you need to know. And the only way to make sure you are looking at it from the right source, to get the main source itself : The Qur'an.

I would appreciate it if you come up with valid points rather than insults.

finti
that is lack of respect of other set of believes

i consider the bible and the Quran equal, and you would probably consider my views on that book as an insult.

but Muslims demands that they can set up mosques here in Norway and call it racism as long as they are denied. If you can not set up a temple/church or whatever in a islamic nation then that religion of that nation has no respect for other ways of worship.

and as far as insults goes, I havent even started on that path yet, I have not posted my true feelings and thoughts toward organized religions. So what has been these so called insults you refer too, cause if you cant take what little that has been said in here then you are too hypersensitive and this is obviously not the right place for that

SamiKismet
This place is not for insults but to present insightful and thoughtful ideas. If you can not bare that, than maybe it's you that should not be here. I understand your viewpoints and don't ask you to accept the religion or to like it, the only thing I ask is that you respect not only this, but every other religion out there. If you speak with a respectful voice, others will pay close attention to you, I can guarantee that. I also noticed you speaking of Christianity with the "not-yet-insult." I respect Christianity and Islam the same way, all I'm saying is that you should become more open minded and look outside the little window you've set up in your world, I'm sure you have some strong points against Islam and that is completely understandable. But if you want those issues addressed, then do so with dignity, and in a way that does not drop down your standard in anyone else's eyes.

Know the difference between legtimate bias and an illegitimate one. You're choosing the illegitimate where you already have a conclusion and looking for the facts to back it up. I understand and even appreciate your viewpoints for it is my job as a Muslim to tell the others who have concerns about the religion and who are willing to listen. By posting on this forum, you are supposed to understand and recognize that the world does not consists of only your opinion, but of many others that feel the need to say what they want to say. If you disagree with people doing so, than this website isn't right for you.

SamiKismet
As far as the mosque in Norway, yes, if your country allows right to practice religion, than it is the government who is at fault. However, if it doesn't, if only one religion dominates their and government does not allow any other to be present, than it's the Muslim's fault. Then they are the ones who need to look at themselves and consider their actions. But, it is biased of you to take one point and address it to us Muslims and say it is us who do what a small group is doing. Consider that. If you don't like the Qur'an or don't wish to read it, than I'm certainly not forcing you! That would be imprudent and wrong of me to do so.

So think about what you say next time, and pretend to understand other's viewpoints. Maybe that would lead you to a more open-minded state.

Gryn Jabar
When was the last time a Christian used kamikaze techniques under the pretext they would get him to heaven?

Julie
I have no answer for you.
Christianity has its problems......but I don't think slaughtering innocents is one of its flaws

SamiKismet
If you are referring to Islam, then that would be the extremist who are taking the wrong meaning for the word "Jihad" which actually means to struggle. Doing what they did, they do not deserve to even smell the scent of heaven.

finti
why should I respect religion as long as many of the religion dont respect other peoples point of view they cant expect to get respect back at them.

you see that would be totalitarian which means no respect of others set of beliefs.
And if a religion is dominant and doesnt allow others to be present now where is the respect for other religion then?

I should be open minded?, me who look beyond religious beliefs, me who look into other options to us being here rather than that of an so called deity, me who can go beyond certain set rules, me who can actually decide myself and not bound by some ancient out of date rules, me who can eat whatever I want. The little window is the work of the religious ones, those are the narrow minded.

exactly but then they must tolerate that people might not find it all that believable either, that they might criticize it that faithful might find responses insulting.
This is a debate forum if you wanna preach your stuff fine , but people gonna have their view on it, respectfully or disrespectfully.

you wanted examples I gave you one. Another thing a small group of muslims in Norway did is that they(the religious leaders) defended their own member who committed rape. Blaming it on the Norwegian women who were victims cause they dress too temptingly. Now for a nation that has its own culture how do you think we react when some religious leader run around telling us his moral views this moral views that and we are just a bunch of barbaric infidels cause we live the way we live. Well my word to him is if he doesnt like it here piss off back to where he came from.
Do we think all the muslims are like that no, but then those who aint sure as hell should have raised their voice against him though. Cause as long as they dont well then they actuall agree with him.

SamiKismet
If you don't like them respecting your religion, then why should you become one of them? Talk about lowering down your standards, what better are you than them?



I was talking about your country here. The totalitarian part, i believe, I said that if your nation does not allow it, then Muslims should not speak up. I am unaware of what your country allows and what it doesn't allow. And the respect for other religion is not to allow it, necessarily, but to not to insult it openly. Call it names, and say that it's the wrong path. How many religions don't do that? If you're an atheist, than it's a different story. But I also understand why that would be so, not necessarily agree with, but I get the reasoning behind it. If you don't agree with Islam's viewpoints, than say so, give me proof and if it's able, than maybe it will shut me up and go look at the Qur'an to find reason and proof. You see, we find everything we need in the Qur'an, there is reason and cause for everything. All is written there.

SamiKismet
Being open minded does not mean you do what you want. It is the ability to be able to understand, if not agree with, other's opinions. Being able to "eat whatever you want" is not the definition. In reply to your "ancient out of date rules," what do you consider the "modern rules?" I guess this is what I do not understand, i hope you help me at this topic. To be able to perform open debauchery? To get drunk and wander in streets half naked? Is that what is "modern rules?" At least what you refer to as "ancient rules" are more decent. To go beyond certain rules, is certainly not open mindedness. To know that there are other windows open and study them, understand them, disagree or agree with them is a better pathway. But to preach the world according to your point of view as a religious leader, is certainly, narrow mindedness. I agree with that point.

Back to the point of Islam teaching respect for other religions is taught strictly in Qur'an. The ones who follow it, good for them. But the ones who do not are those that taint the name of Islam. I gave you the reason why we are taught to respect other's religion, because it is also a work of God. Whether you believe in one deity or not, is irrelevent at this point. In Islam, this is what is taught.

Sorry for not replying in only one post, don't know why my replies are just so long.

finti
to renew oneself to the time we living in

decent for you maybe, ancient and out of date to others.

it aint about lowering down the standard it is doing to them what they do to me, if thats the way they want to treat others well then thats the way they be treated

my country has freedom of religion

just because it is written there doesnt make it the truth, just like the bible. And no I dont agree with the qua'ran at all, whenever deities is involved I pass

if you dont allow it you dont respect it either, what respect is it to other people and their religion if the right to believe in what they want to believ is denied.

I respect others peoples religion, what i dont respect is that they preach about it, telling others that their way is wrong. What you believe and how to practise it should be a personal matter, as long as it aint I have to say what I feel about that particulare matter and if they say all other set of believes are wrong, well all we can do is fire back with same ammo.

finti
to put it simple I treat other sets of believes the way they treat other beliefs.

lil bitchiness
It tells us, for one, that people have different cultural patterns which have NOTHING to do with religion.

SamiKismet
I think this is an ongoing argument. Neither of us are coming to any conclusion. We both have different definitions of each. And I can not waste time any longer for something that is not worth it.

Just one suggestion, if your mind is set upon "revenge" (for what they are doing to you must be done to them), then you will not go anywhere. It's better to be dignified than that. That's all I will say.

finti
it aint set on revenge it is just like that I have no respect for them since they dont respect others, in other words actually I dont care what people believe if people wanna waste their time on some religion fine with me, they go pray to this thing of theirs I`ll have a beer.

I dont looking for a conclusion, I just state how I feel.

Player
Oh yeah, beer, or any alcohol for that matter is my god!

KharmaDog
A proud alcoholic, nice.

The Alpha
The only religion with no prejudice to anyone.

finti
is that why they dont allow other religions in and around islamic nations?

finti
Norse mythology wasnt prejudice to any ohter religion

SamiKismet
They have christianity in Pakistan - an Islamic Nation.

SamiKismet
In Dubai, you'll find mixed population.
In parts of Arab, other religions are there are as well.

finti
yeah and everything is peacefully around the christian community too...........

So let say I wanted to establish a church in Mecca or Medina

SamiKismet
It is true, in Mecca and Madina it is impossible to do so because they are considered holy sites for all Muslims. You can't do that in Jerusalem either. This phenomenon is understandable. I had Christians as our neighbor, it was very peaceful in our community.

finti
Jerusalem was a holy city for Christians and Jews long before the muslim expansion. What makes muslims have a right to put up their stuff in other religions holy cities, but they wont permit other religions to put up their houses in holy cities to the muslims?
To me that says a bit about the islams tolerance and respect or lack of it towards other religions

SamiKismet
I don't believe there are any muslim holy sites in Jerusalem. The mosque there was our first "kaa'ba" but now it isn't. It was changed during Muhammad's (pbuh) lifetime.

Our holy sites in Medina is the deathbed of our prophet and where he is buried. There are some rules that you have to follow, if you choose not to follow them is a different story. But apart from those two holy places (Mecca and Medina), there are many countries that allow mixed religion. Just yesterday in the news, Lebanon was celebrating something with Muslims, Christians and I believe were Hindus.

Sam Z
Originally posted by moviejunkie23
"People who use Jihad as an excuse to commit terrorist acts are extremists who are misusing their religion. "
"In the Qu'ran it says that actual war is only acceptible if someone is preventing you from practicing your religion."

this is from the koran.....
"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

looks like your not just going to kill people that hinder your practice of religeon according to the koran. It appears that they are instructed to seek you out and murder you. "slay them wherever you find them", this means not as a act of defense but rather when you find them kill them. These are directions from the koran.

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

I thought you said that they teach that christians and jews "have the right idea of religeon," it appears you are also misguided in this. How much more point blank can you take this quote other than islam is the only way.

here you need more for that point?
"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18)
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

that is from the koran
you say
"Islam also teaches that Jews and Christians are "people of the book" who basically have the right idea about religion and are treated as fellow Muslims,"

sounds like you are grossly misrepresenting islam in the very least

does not sound like that great respect you have described.

you have also said "Islam teaches peace and tolerance towards all people more than anything else."

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)- koran
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

This is from their own koran. They are directed to behave this way. Sure there are good muslims that don't go around and slaughter people and are hate mongers of other people, BUT, is this what the koran teaches?? You have the peacefull muslims out there but the question is What does the Koran teach. Well according to the koran probably 95 percent of us in these threads( saying for the sake of argument 5 percent of us are islamic) should be killed. Don't try to water down what is written in the Koran. It teaches to slaughter those who are not islamic. People that kill in the name of islam are doing as they are instructed by there book.



I love it when people know nothing of religion but post "quotes" that are not even real or changed or cut in the middle.
My Koran is not in english so i'll try to translate it.

(surah 2:190) And fight on your way to Allah with those who fight you but don't go to far on your way because Allah don't like when you do so.
(surah 2:191) And kill them where you see them and expel them from where they expeled you because temptetion is worse than murder! But don't fight them near the forbidden mosque unless they start to fight you

For those who didn't get the point. This is a respond for idea that you must turn another cheek if somebody hits you. It means that is someone tries to force you not to believe in islam or if somebody takes away your motherland you should kill him because betraying beliefes and motherland is worse than just a murder. I believe majority of members of this forum would agree that if someone tries to take away your motherland or your freedom (like during the war) sometimes killing is the only way.

(Surah 3:19) Trully, Allah's religion is Islam.

It is true, Islam says that Jew and Christians have right idea of religion but some things were missunderstood or forgotten. I don't even know what your quote was supposed to prove. Yes, Allah's religion is Islam, that's what said in Koran, so what's wrong with that?


(Surah 5:18)
And Jew and Christians saiy: "We are children of God and his loved ones."
Say: "Then why He punishes you for your sins? No- you are ordinary people among those He created. He forgives whom He wants and punishes whom He wants..."

You tried to show it as an idea that Islam says that christians and Jews are bad, but the idea is that Allah can't have children or lovers, it points that neither Jesus is his son because Allah is not a human. Do you know why it's all said to Jews and Chrisitians only? Not to Budhist or anyone else. Exactly because their religious views are close to what says Islam, so I want to insure it never been said anything of killing anyone who don't believe in Islam.

(Surah 5:51) "You, those who believe! Don't take Christians and Jews as your friends" funny, you forgot to qoute that "And if you take them as friends you believe in what they believe. Trully, Allah does not lead those who don't believe in Islam." In other words-make sure you will believe in Islam not in any other religion because otherwise you turn from Allah. There is nothing said about killing or hating non-muslims.

(Surah 4:103) When you finish your pray - remember about Allah - when you stand, when you seat, when you sleep.

Nothing about "seeking your enemy" you made that staff up.

(Surah 9:121) little bit hard to translate for me but nothing about dealing with anybody.

Sorry dude, but you got it all wrong.
Islam was always about spreading religion and not by force but by telling other people about it. And if there is mentioned word "fight" in Koran it always about fighting back, fighting those who attack you. Or about fighting temptations. And that's about believeing in Islam only. People always kill, but when they do this is not about religion (unless they are crazy fanatics and believe so) When you look at seriel killer that say "i kill for Jesus" you can't blame christianity for that.
I'll say it once again, Islam was NEVER about violance or killing but about peace. And you are just another victim of the media and of people who just hate muslims.

Lord Urizen
Saying that Islam is the misunderstood religion is just as valid as saying:

1) Homosexuality is the misunderstood sexuality.

2) Abortion is the misunderstood kind of killing.

Justbyfaith
Originally posted by Beastro
Islam is nowhere near a peaceful religion.There opposed to anyone who doesnt follow them and in some nations people are beheaded for not following them.There against peace and freedom and thats why there fighting the United States because its what we stand for.

This is one of the more accurate posts I have seen in awhile. Happy Dance

The Hadith says, "Kill the infidels...

Thats everyone who doesn't agree with Islam.

Peacefull? Maybe to those who don't practice out the faith. embarrasment

Justbyfaith
Originally posted by Sam Z


(Surah 3:19) Trully, Allah's religion is Islam.



Well, that's great for Allah. But please don't tell me he is the God of the Bible. Allah and Jesus just don't mix together well.

Jesus is Love\\Forgiveness

Allah is Control//Persecution

Justbyfaith
Originally posted by MC Mike
Ok, I'm glad many people are being respectful - but some comments are over the top.

Islam is a very peaceful religion. Did you know the original reason women were veiled was to prevent abuse?

Islam is 7th century Saudi Arabia.

Control & Plunder.

The difference today is that it has become a global assault on mankind and anyone who doesn't agree is to be killed.

The Omega
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
The difference today is that it has become a global assault on mankind and anyone who doesn't agree is to be killed.

That's just the absolute most generalistic and ignorant comment of the day. Shame on you, Justbyfaith. People like you just makes it SO hard to believe world-peace could EVER be achieved.

Alliance
Thats bullsh*t.

Islam is a very noble faith. And THEY protected Western classicism and all enlighted thought from the grips of CHristian persecution. They also initiated the Italina and the European Renaissance.

Jest because there is a 20 year olf extremist movement doesnt mean anything you said. I'd consider your logic right up there with theirs (the extremists).

Justbyfaith
Originally posted by The Omega
That's just the absolute most generalistic and ignorant comment of the day. Shame on you, Justbyfaith. People like you just makes it SO hard to believe world-peace could EVER be achieved.

World Peace? Have you been watching to many movies lately? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Alliance
Have you been thinking?

Regret
Allah is a God of justice and mercy, anxious to forgive men and women who are willing to repent of their wrongdoings and submit their will to His.

Sound familiar to a God you know?

"Allah" is the general name for God used by all speakers of Arabic, whether Muslim, Jewish or Christian.

The history of relations among Muslims, Christians and Jews shows that Muslim governments generally have been more tolerant in their treatment of religious minorities than have Christian governments. They just typically forbid proselyting

The Islamic faith is no more aggressive than Christianity, and it would appear may be less so.

Alliance
Originally posted by Regret
The history of relations among Muslims, Christians and Jews shows that Muslim governments generally have been more tolerant in their treatment of religious minorities than have Christian governments. They just typically forbid proselyting

The Islamic faith is no more aggressive than Christianity, and it would appear may be less so.

This is correct. Overall...Islam has been the most tolerant of the monothiesitc relgions.

Historically....Islam is awesome.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Well, that's great for Allah. But please don't tell me he is the God of the Bible. Allah and Jesus just don't mix together well.

Jesus is Love\\Forgiveness

Allah is Control//Persecution


YOUR God is NO better than Allah....

BOTH of your religions have thier section that preaches control and persecution.

Stop playing the innocent card, Christianity is responsible for loads of horrible things that have happened throughout history, not to mention the CRAP many Christians pursue today: Trying to transform United States into an all-Christian conformist slave state.

Alliance
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Trying to transform United States into an all-Christian conformist slave state.

cry

Sam Z
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Well, that's great for Allah. But please don't tell me he is the God of the Bible. Allah and Jesus just don't mix together well.

Jesus is Love\\Forgiveness

Allah is Control//Persecution

I never said that he is the God of the Bible. I only translated what Koran says in that surah.

Allah is presecution? What are you talking about?
Islam is loyalty and faith.

maham
Originally posted by Beastro
Islam is nowhere near a peaceful religion.

Christianity is? Bush?Blair?



Tht's the definition of US.



No offence but err...does Guantanamo stand 4 peace n freedom?Did Afghanistan or Iraq or Vietnam war stand 4 peace?

Sam Z
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Saying that Islam is the misunderstood religion is just as valid as saying:

1) Homosexuality is the misunderstood sexuality.

2) Abortion is the misunderstood kind of killing.

No offence LU, but why do you always try to lead all threads to homosexuality?

maham
Originally posted by finti
examples please....................
What I love is when christians do hideous crimes the excuse is that they aint real christians so it aint about the religion at all. When someone from a different religion does the same it is the entire religion that is evil and not the single person. What a bunch of hypocrites

Sam Z
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Islam is 7th century Saudi Arabia.

Control & Plunder.

The difference today is that it has become a global assault on mankind and anyone who doesn't agree is to be killed.

Why do I even bother explaining main ideas of islam if people keep repeating what they hear on the media without even trying to learn something about religion before judging...

maham
Originally posted by Sam Z
Why do I even bother explaining main ideas of islam if people keep repeating what they hear on the media without even trying to learn something about religion before judging...
Thanx 2 the western media Islam HAS BCOME a misunderstood religion.Take the cartoon issue 4 example.They say it was very rite 2 publish them.Then there comes 'The Da Vinci Code' n every1's like 'BAN IT NOW!' n like 'IT's BLAPHEMY!' n all.HYPOCRITES!

Sam Z
Originally posted by maham
Thanx 2 the western media Islam HAS BCOME a misunderstood religion.Take the cartoon issue 4 example.They say it was very rite 2 publish them.Then there comes 'The Da Vinci Code' n every1's like 'BAN IT NOW!' n like 'IT's BLAPHEMY!' n all.HYPOCRITES!

Yeah, it became a stupid stereotype.
Everytime they say islam they also say terrorism as if it was the idea of the religion.

maham
Originally posted by finti ]

yeah and everything is peacefully around the christian community too...........

Well,it is.Like I'v studied in Convent n was taught by nuns.



Y wud u?Those r the Holy Places of Muslims.

Justbyfaith
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
YOUR God is NO better than Allah....

Christianity is responsible for loads of horrible things that have happened throughout history

Better go back to history class. Rome (Catholicism) is responsible for the millions of deaths of Christians. Study up my friend! wink

Justbyfaith
Originally posted by maham
Christianity is? Bush?Blair?

People and Jesus are two different things. Jesus loves, people hate.

maham
Originally posted by Justbyfaith

WEll I didn't say God or Christ hate any1 but Christians do.They hav in the past n they r now.

Justbyfaith
Originally posted by maham
WEll I didn't say God or Christ hate any1 but Christians do.They hav in the past n they r now.

You hit the nail on that! It's not Jesus as the problem, it's sinful, selfish humans. big grin

Regret
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
You hit the nail on that! It's not Jesus as the problem, it's sinful, selfish humans. big grin

It's not Allah, and Islam, as the problem, it's sinful, selfish humans. big grin

It is extreme factions that you are speaking about Justbyfaith. Islam overall is a very peaceful religion.

Alliance
or at least is no more peaceful than any other religion.

The Omega
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
World Peace? Have you been watching to many movies lately? roll eyes (sarcastic)

Ah, so world peace is not something you strive for?? I should've guessed with the fanatical viewpoints you present.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Why do I even bother explaining main ideas of islam if people keep repeating what they hear on the media without even trying to learn something about religion before judging...

Because silence is consent??

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Better go back to history class. Rome (Catholicism) is responsible for the millions of deaths of Christians. Study up my friend! wink

Catholicism is responsible for the death of Christians??? laughing
You need to read up on ancient Rome.
When was Catholicism established in Rome?
When did the main-seat of Christianity move from Rome?
What happened during the Crusades?

Jesus and Christian God all about love?

Luke 12:5 Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell.
Luke 12:46-47: Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes."

Or... just help yourself http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

Justbyfaith
Originally posted by The Omega
Ah, so world peace is not something you strive for?? I should've guessed with the fanatical viewpoints you present.



World Peace? Sounds good. Is touchy and emotional. But NOT!

Best thing is follow what Jesus said and love your enemies.

Alliance
laughing Catholics not christians..... CLASSIC! eek!

Imperial_Samura
Interesting fact - a recent University study comparing the language of the Koran and the language of the Bible revealed that the Bible has many more instances of violence and times of advocating violence and prejudice then the Koran.

How. About. That. The Islamic Holy Book is actually a lot more peaceful then the Christian Holy Book. I kind of like this fact.

Echuu
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Interesting fact - a recent University study comparing the language of the Koran and the language of the Bible revealed that the Bible has many more instances of violence and times of advocating violence and prejudice then the Koran.

How. About. That. The Islamic Holy Book is actually a lot more peaceful then the Christian Holy Book. I kind of like this fact.

wink Yeah but Jesus didn't say let's go kill a bunch of people in Meccah cuz they kicked me out.


I'm pretty sure you like this 'fact' because it just gives you another excuse to flip the bird in every Christian's face.

Alliance
When the Muslims were in control of Jeruselem during their golden age, they let all religions worship and live there. When the Christians took control during the crusades, they kicked everyone out except fo Christians.

Jesus also thought that non-believers should be stoned.

Echuu
Originally posted by Alliance
When the Muslims were in control of Jeruselem during their golden age, they let all religions worship and live there. When the Christians took control during the crusades, they kicked everyone out except fo Christians.

Jesus also thought that non-believers should be stoned.

Those were Christians screwing up, not the founder of the religion.



laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud Alliance that is going to be under my sig now.
"Jesus also thought that non-believers should be stoned."


He said, he who is without sin cast the first stone. Nobody came forward to pick up a stone did they?
In other words... we are all guilty of sin and do not deserve God's heaven, but because of his grace through his son, Christ Jesus, we can be saved.

Blue nocturne
Islam means submission to allah not salam.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Echuu
wink Yeah but Jesus didn't say let's go kill a bunch of people in Meccah cuz they kicked me out.

No, Jesus didn't. But apparently God did say such things, if the Bible can be believed. More then that he actually acted on this on more then one occasion, once again if one takes the bible as, pardon the pun, Gospel.

But then I guess God doesn't count in arguments that cast poor light on religious institutions.



No, I like the fact because it can serve to highlight the hypocrisy of some peoples argument. The whole "Islam is founded, and incurably linked to badness" when it reality the basis of it, its holy text, is less violent then the Christian one.

Perhaps the point I am getting at is to do with the people in the religions themselves...

Alliance
Originally posted by Echuu
laughing out loud laughing out loud laughing out loud Alliance that is going to be under my sig now.
"Jesus also thought that non-believers should be stoned."

Here are some other quotes for you to ponder over.

EXO 15:3 "The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name"

MAT 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

LUKE 10:10-12 "But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, "It shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city."Entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" Jesus and his disciples. Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city." (Yeah, Jesus was so accepting of hospitality, not surprising because his preganant mother was turned out from an inn)

LUKE 17:27 "They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all." (Jesus really had not problem with god just wiping out everybody on the planet except for Noah)

LUKE 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

I'm sorry I could not find off hand which passage I was referring to, but it essential said: that whoever doubts him and tries to convince children he is not the savior, it would be better of if he were stoned.

docb77
I think that a big part of why they're misunderstood is the popular view of violence. I realize that any culture has it's extremist elements, but Islam's extremist elements are pretty close to being the majority. Something like 60% of Muslims support or "understand" the violence that the "minority" perpetrates. Compare that to Christians, or Jews, or any of the easter religions - The people who would support killing innocent people are such a minority that I don't think I've ever even heard of any stats on it. People like what's his face that blew up the oklahoma federal building are an extreme exception, people like Bin Laden? Not so sparce.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Better go back to history class. Rome (Catholicism) is responsible for the millions of deaths of Christians. Study up my friend! wink


CHRISTIANITY IS STILL RESPONSIBLE you hypocrit.

Catholics ARE Christians....and you Protestants are HIGHLY responsible for:


1) The Near Extermination of the Native Americans

2) Salem WITCH TRIALS

3) Much of the conflicts that occured in mid Europe.

4) Much of the social and civil oppression that has OCCURED IN UNITED STATES ALONE

5) Muchhhh of the RACISM that has been inspired in red state America through the past years.

6) Rejection, oppression, intolerance and violence towards Homosexuals

7) The treatment of Women as Second class Citizens

8) The past denial to marry a white and black person.

9) The discouraging of bi-raciality and ethnic mixes in general.

10) The strengthening of the beginning development of the Ku Klux Klan

crazy
Islam is indeed very peaceful, you got to love the misinterpretations in this thread though. First of all, in Islam, no one goes to hell permanently, they are given their punishment then eventually go to heaven. In Christianity, if you are in hell, you are ****ed are you not?

The thing is I would not consider myself a Muslim, so I try not to talk with bias. Islam always intrigued me because of how it describes the process of birth so well, also how it describes space, basically it is a religion that fits with science.

And my Muslim friends always remind me of one thing, Heaven is not just a place for Muslims.

Echuu
Imperial_Samura>.......... if the bible is to be believed then God is a just God.

Alliance>............

EXODUS 15:3---this is in the Old Testament... yes?

MATTHEW 10:34---Read the verses around this one; the disciples wanted an earthly kingdom... this isn't what Jesus came for. Basically his presense would not bring the peace they wanted but more conflict. This probably isn't the most satisfying answer but I'm not going to post all the verses, you'll have to read it yourself.

LUKE 10:10-12---Or maybe he accepted it because he was worthy?

LUKE 17:27--- So what? He is saying that the end times after Christ will be similar to the end times of Noah and Lot. Verse 33 kinda shows the point he is making... 'Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

LUKE 19:27--- Go and read verse 11 of this chapter please. This is the biggest problem with your 'copy, paste, point finger' tactics.
Verse 11 says that "He added and spake A PARABLE." Jesus wasn't saying this about those around him; he was telling a story about a nobleman who said this.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Better go back to history class. Rome (Catholicism) is responsible for the millions of deaths of Christians. Study up my friend! wink

Gahhhhh!!!!

Not to be insulting, but I think it is you who needs to go back to history class.

1st: Catholics ARE Christian.

2nd: Rome was a pagan state (though pagan is a derogative term born of Christianity and thankfully is being used less by historians) - the Christian persecutions where carried out by the Roman government that was pagan - for a number of reasons, not just religious ones. This was before there was an official Church - there were no Catholics during the persecutions.

3rd: Constantine was the Roman emperor who made Christianity the state religion of Rome, and the one true religion. The Romans were not Christian until this point, long after the persecutions, which incidentally did not kill "millions" - beyond this, the birth of the Catholic Church the Christians began to persecute pagans (they took their temples, outlawed sacrifice, pushed out pagan ministers and intellectuals) and different types of Christians - thus began the cruel punishment of "heretics" who were also Christian, but didn't believe the same way as the Catholic Christians.

4th - Beyond this other religions were treated badly by western Christians (Catholics and Protestants when they came about) - the Manichean's, Islam, Hinduism, various eastern cults, Eastern Orthadox Christianity (then even further was what happened in South America, pagan religions of Europe, natives on countless Islands and Australia and New Zealand, Africa...)

The Bible, as has been mentioned, does have plenty of cases where violence has been extolled. More dangerous is the fact it gave Christians for a long time the belief that they had a *divine* duty to punish and convert nonbelievers and people who were not believing correctly. As a result a lot of violence was caused.

maham
Originally posted by Justbyfaith
You hit the nail on that! It's not Jesus as the problem, it's sinful, selfish humans. big grin
That's my point.Ppl r the sinners n u blame religion 4 that (not u I meant other ppl who do)

crazy
And also from what I understand, freedom of religion is allowed in Islam, of course some Islamic countries do not allow it but that is culture getting in the way of religion.

crazy
Please ignore moviebakers interpretations of the Quran, after reading the interpretations on different Islamic sites, most of them have nothign to do with what he is saying, read them yourself to find out.

JesusIsAlive
Facts about Islam
http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1004/1004_01.asp

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1011/1011_01.asp

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5020/5020_01.asp

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by room #99
Hello, the misunderstood religon is islam :

"Islam" which comes from the word "Salam" which means in english " Peace"

peace of mind
peace of soul
peace in the afterlife

You might have heard that islam is the religon of terroists, well that why they call it the misunderstood religon. and to found why you have to discover islam smile

Here are some sites that can get you to know about Islam and its Ethics (Peace)

http://www.discoverislam.com/

www.islam-qa.com

http://www.islamworld.net/

http://www.islam101.com/
Misunderstood?
I don't think so.

Your religion deamonises, insults and spreads lies about my religion on daily bases.

http://www.islamandbuddhism.com/2.html

How is it a peaceful religion if it keeps on proclaiming that my religion is opressive and enslaving, deeming people of my religion as lazy and beggers! Why is it necessary for a peaceful religion to spread lies about other religions? This just brings about hate and discrimination.



^^ That is what your religious leaders say about people of my religion.
Its trying to humiliate my religion so that it makes your religion look better!

How exactly am I missunderstanding Islam - you are certainly not going to find a Buddhist proclaiming lies like this about Islam.

Justbyfaith
My question is: If a Religion doesn't mock another does that make it "truth"?

Sam Z
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Misunderstood?
I don't think so.

Your religion deamonises, insults and spreads lies about my religion on daily bases.

http://www.islamandbuddhism.com/2.html

How is it a peaceful religion if it keeps on proclaiming that my religion is opressive and enslaving, deeming people of my religion as lazy and beggers! Why is it necessary for a peaceful religion to spread lies about other religions? This just brings about hate and discrimination.



^^ That is what your religious leaders say about people of my religion.
Its trying to humiliate my religion so that it makes your religion look better!

How exactly am I missunderstanding Islam - you are certainly not going to find a Buddhist proclaiming lies like this about Islam.


You now turn it into "your religion is bad because it disagrees with my religion".
Islam does not lies about any religion. Islam has it's own opinion about them but so does all religions have their views on other beliefes.
How is Islam insults or lies about any religion if all medias makes people think that Islam is violance?
And all you do is post link of some site that's supposed to show Islam's idea about bhuddism. If you want to know what Islam says about other religions go by Koran.

maham
Exactly!

Eis
Originally posted by Sam Z
You now turn it into "your religion is bad because it disagrees with my religion".
Islam does not lies about any religion. Islam has it's own opinion about them but so does all religions have their views on other beliefes.
How is Islam insults or lies about any religion if all medias makes people think that Islam is violance?
And all you do is post link of some site that's supposed to show Islam's idea about bhuddism. If you want to know what Islam says about other religions go by Koran.
"Your religion is bad because it disagrees with my religion" more like "Your religion wants to kill me because I disagree with it."

Don't be an idiot, Islam is like Christianity on steroids.

Bardock42
Dude, there are also moderate Muslims...you can't just judge a Religion by its fundamentalists...

Eis
Originally posted by Bardock42
Dude, there are also moderate Muslims...you can't just judge a Religion by its fundamentalists...
I... Can't... Must... Hate... Muslims.

No but seriously, just compare the world's most catholic country: Vatican and the world's most muslim country: Saudi Arabia. Islam is like Christianity on steroids.

maham
n that's wat u call Isalmophobia.

Eis
Originally posted by maham
n that's wat u call Isalmophobia.
Well you people preach non-islamophobia.

debbiejo
If I remember right Islam preaches to kill nonbelievers, Christianity doesn't.

Regret
Originally posted by debbiejo
If I remember right Islam preaches to kill nonbelievers, Christianity doesn't.

Ummm, you haven't heard of Jericho? Sorry, I really hate it when someone states that a religion based on the Bible claims things like this. Fact is the Bible is a bloody book. Christianity does not preach this anymore, but the history of it shows it to have happened in the past.

debbiejo
Originally posted by Regret
Ummm, you haven't heard of Jericho? Sorry, I really hate it when someone states that a religion based on the Bible claims things like this. Fact is the Bible is a bloody book. Christianity does not preach this anymore, but the history of it shows it to have happened in the past. True true, I was speaking about the NT.....the OT is very bloody indeed.....yep.

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>