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I just wannted to see how many Views this thread get's


Sorry for the wasteing your time

1 view.. thats me.

Gve my wasted time back!

i demand my time back, in monetary compensation

in fact....in the spirit of Americanism...im going to sue u

lol

I'm a evil *******

yup we know.

and that's why i love you all

liar disgust

Hm...well i'm viewing so that means i'm cool so....yea i'm cool

and i love you most of all

well thats to bad i like there open ended messages but i must agree that your opinion is valid to yourself
-------------------------------------
once i saw once i told once i saw that time grows old

tool's not bad

yep you wasted my time - but it's ok! british guys can waste my time anytime in_love

i dont think tool suck. i think people get a bit over excited when describing them though

not crazy over Tool

tool are cool
tool are different
tool are original..very original
tool have a great drummer "Danny carey"
tool have a great vocalist " Maynard james"
tool tool tool tool tool.

Tool kicks ass

there not that original :/
a modern day rip of pink floyd

also Maynard is not that great a singer

now your deffinatley lying schmoll

I'm not cry

common you dont mean that! he is a good singer and you know it.

fearnix how are they like pink floyd

That's exactly correct.

I'll also agree with that.

They are nothing like Pink Floyd. Everyone always looks to todays great bands with the purpose of finding an older band to lessen them to.

As for people getting over excited, there are people on here who go a bit over the top when referring to the band. However with the music they make I don't think it's possible to overrate them.

-AC

Pink Floyd arent even in the same league as Tool

i dont think theyre overrated...just overglorified

Yeah, Pink Floyd is a lot better.

Have you ever heard Pink floyd?


and it's posible to overate any band

clap

Its not possible to overrate Black Sabbath.

or Zepplin

Stairway to heavens overrated... the band as a whole are not.

You can easily overrate Black Sabbath. Look at any of their post-ozzy stuff and say it's anywhere near good. Hell, besides their first four albums, you'd be hard pressed to make a full album of songs that are worth listening to.

And Tool borrows so much from Mahavishnu Orchestra, Rush and Pink Floyd, it's not even funny. If you want a drummer who can do tempo changes better, check out The Apex Theory.

In my eyes, post-ozzy isnt Black Sabbath

exactly.

yeah


Sabbath are a band, it's not just one guy

also Gezzer wrote most of the music

I don't get why people say they sound like Pink Floyd. I just don't hear it. I like them but I agree they are overrated on this site.. in the real world they aren't though.

"Have you ever heard Pink floyd?"

Yes.

"Its not possible to overrate Black Sabbath."

You're overrating them by saying that.

"And Tool borrows so much from Mahavishnu Orchestra, Rush and Pink Floyd, it's not even funny."

Danny Carey cites Neil Peart as one of his major influences but I don't think they ever listen to a record and try to put that style of playing into their music. Purely because they are too concerned with making music true to them, that pleases them, to base it on anything else. The way it should be. Not saying Pink Floyd haven't had an impact on them as people, but I don't agree that it's in the music.

"I don't get why people say they sound like Pink Floyd. I just don't hear it. I like them but I agree they are overrated on this site.. in the real world they aren't though."

I don't think they're overRATED on this site. When people refer to Maynard in seriousness as a God, it's a bit much. However that isn't detrimental to their talent. They are, in my opinion, as amazing as I claim they are. I don't think I overrate or overglorify them at all.

-AC

Are you f'n kidding me? I would hardly call them a "rip-off". There's a difference between being influenced by and "ripping-off" a band's style of music. You think Tool sounds anything like Pink Floyd??? You need to have your ears checked, man. That or your head. The whole idea is pretty ridiculous.

And by the way, Maynard James Keenan is a much better vocalist than Roger Waters is, hands down.

It's all a matter of taste AC. If you like them to the point that most tool fans do they wont seem overrated to you. But to someone who isn't as big of a Tool fan they do seem to be overrated by people on this site. Don't get me wrong.. the two tool albums I have are great but not to the point that a lot of people say they are IMO. A band being overrated isn't really a concrete thing.. some people will find them overrated while others won't.

The influences from those bands I mentioned aren't exactly arguable...if you are listening at least.

That's opinion though and I agree. You not liking them is just opinion. You're not saying they aren't getting credit they deserve from the likes of me, you are just saying that you don't think they're that good. Which is fine.

But to say I am overrating the band isn't true. I say what I believe based on what I here.

-AC

Ok I can see why people say they have influences from bands like Pink Floyd and Rush but I can't see how people can say they are a Pink Floyd rip off.. they sound completely different.

And AC I do believe many people overrate them. If I'm not mistaken overrating a band is giving them more credit than deserved. Therefore if I feel they get more credit than they deserve than they are overrated in my opinion, and that can't be proven true or false cause it all falls down to opinion. I actually really like Tool I just find that I don't love them as much as their average fan. It seems like with that band to be a Tool fan means to be a Tool fanatic. I'm not quite there.

That's because when you truly get Tool, it means a lot.

No one is going to become fanatical over Oasis, unless they are mentally questionable.

Nobody on this site refers to Maynard seriously as a god. The thread about Maynard being god... Yeah, that was a joke, in case anybody hasn't figured it out yet. Don't get me wrong, he is very, very talented, but I don't seriously think that, and I sure hope nobody else thinks I do.

I don't know how anyone would actually think that whole thing was serious.... I sure don't think that way, I was just goofing around like I almost always am.

FTR, I wasn't directly refering to you Revan.

"It seems like with that band to be a Tool fan means to be a Tool fanatic. I'm not quite there."

As Vic said, when you fully appreciate Tool and what they stand for, outside and primarily inside of music, it means more than what most bands have ever said. Dare I say all.

That's why people get pissed and view hardcore Tool fanatics as elitists, because to get what they truly say, you have to be at a certain level of intelligence. No idiot is gonna get what they are saying, no average joe. If you do and still don't appreciate what they are saying then what they are saying probably doesn't matter much to you. Which is opinion. But it matters to me and all the other people who think as highly of them as I do. Bands like System of a Down, A Perfect Circle etc, all the other bands I love are great musical influences and I love them. However Tool have done alot for me as a person outside of music. There have been times in my life when I've actually overcome life long fears as a result of their music and Maynard's lyrics, Death for one.

So I don't consider praising them as high as I do musically, an overrating.

-AC

Don't confuse intelligence with taste. In fact my friend is a boarder line genius and he likes Linkin Park and Eminem. I don't doubt for a second that he's more intelligent than me but I think he has some bad taste in music. But yeah they do have some great lyrics.

1st) Off Why the **** are people taking this thread seriously

2nd) I like TOOL, Maynard is a great singer/songwriter and Justin is a great guitarist.

3rd) AC I would not say i have a high level of intelligence,Yet i get there lyric's

Justin is a great bassist, you mean

"But yeah they do have some great lyrics."

I think Maynard is quite easily the best lyricist there is.

"AC I would not say i have a high level of intelligence,Yet i get there lyric's"

Maybe you do. Lots of people get what they want from the songs, which is of course the main point. Whether you get what they are intended to mean is a different matter.

"Don't confuse intelligence with taste. In fact my friend is a boarder line genius and he likes Linkin Park and Eminem."

Would you not say that someone as smart as your friend should not be falling for marketing plans such as Linkin Park and Eminem?

-AC

i love how this tool bash thread turned into more of a compromise and kinda of a positive thing

Tools lyrics are very very very deep depending on what kind of person you are...

in my mind there lyrics are like wheels within wheels within wheels within wheels

hope some of you got that
have you ever heard danny careys drum solo that is awesome

AC, like I said being smart has nothing to do with the music you like. If he listened to Eminem for his image that would be falling for the marketing plan, but if he generally likes his music than he isn't falling for anything, he just has what I would consider bad taste in music. I'm pretty sure he generally likes Eminem's music.. he only likes a few musical artists so it's not like he just likes anything thats popular.

i don't want to seem rude (as i generally always end up sounding irrelevant) but whats with all this "once you GET tool" crap? how do you know you've "got" tool. once you "get" the band do they send you an email to let you know you now know EXACTLY what they were on about? each person interprets something differently (post modernism is the area I'm heading with this), you might say you "get" Tool when what you've interpreted them as might be completely different to what the band were going for? this whole "getting of tool" thing seems really pretentious and snobby. are you picking up what i'm putting down?

"you might say you "get" Tool when what you've interpreted them as might be completely different to what the band were going for? this whole "getting of tool" thing seems really pretentious and snobby. are you picking up what i'm putting down?"

I already anticipated your reply in my post.

By "get" I mean understand what the band are saying, the subject matter they talk about. No average joe is gonna randomly know and understand the occult, philosophical and spiritual meanings beneath alot of Tool songs. They might get the jist of it or as I said, just get what they want out of it, even if it's not what the band intended, which is completely fine, infact I promote that sort of thing. However what I said was not pretentious nor snobby. If you can pull a random person over in the street and talk to them about subjective singular consciouness, mythological phenomena through astronomy, evolution into eternal beings and how the alignment of Saturn is said to have a gravitational pull on our lives, I'll be so bold as to say most to all of the people you pick out will say "Huh?".

A better way of putting it would be, unless you share the same interests in the subjects Tool deal with, you're probably not as likely to understand what they intention behind the songs are, which I said is fine. It wasn't a snobby remark. Fans who just listen to Tool fanatically off the back of what the songs mean to them, with no true grasp of the actual meaning of the song, are still fanatical Tool fans either way. Just saying that the real themes, the themes that change alot of Tool fans and what MAKES them so deeply fanatical, is the intricate messages that the band themselves intend to put out.

To be perfectly honest, I'm probably as tired of hearing people refer to Tool fans as snobby as you are of hearing them say anything about "getting" the band.

Fact of the matter is Tool are a very intelligent group of people who produce incredibly deep and intricate music while Maynard produces, I think, the best lyrics to be written. But if you wanna say that I'm wrong for proposing that you need intelligence to "get" Tool, I can go play a Tool album to any number of the general populace, more than likely safe in the knowledge that it will be lost upon them.

-AC

im sorry guys but you've got laugh at this.

what started out as a simple innocent joke on Fearnix' part has turned into a huge argument.


Tool do not suck, at least in my opinion. End of story.

Lets all put our guns down and not dwell on it.

Fearnix you really are evil.

It's just people discussing Tool. That's all, no huge arguement.

-AC

yeah your probably right, but is kind of funny, thats just my sense of humor though

Anyway Tool are amazing, one of the rare exceptions of modren music.

Post-modernism? Care to be more specific? Intertextuality? Or was it used in the lazy sense.

I'm not talking about lyrical content, regardless of what anyone else is saying. Tool's music is highly complex, and it's not as easily 'gettable' as something disposable. Think fast food and gourmet food. If a taste is acquired, on first, second, who knows how many tastes, it is going to be different to the end destination.

Furthermore, the fact that something is initially inaccessible makes the effort feel a lot more rewarding. Personally I'd rather spend time with an album than listen to it, think it's ok, yet know it'll sound precisely the same every listen.

Nothing about the band sending you an e-mail, or equally flippant asides.

As Vic said, when you fully appreciate Tool and what they stand for, outside and primarily inside of music, it means more than what most bands have ever said. Dare I say all.
Hyperbole alert. What about Fugazi, Rage Against The Machine, Rage AGainst the Machine among contemporaries - not even going into the 60s and 70s.

I think Maynard is quite easily the best lyricist there is.
He's good, but to say he's the best? I don't think he'd be in my top five of the past two decades, to be honest.

"Hyperbole alert. What about Fugazi, Rage Against The Machine, Rage AGainst the Machine among contemporaries"

Rage mean alot to me also. What they said as a band were major statements and of course they had extreme importance but I'm referring to personal importance. Zack talking about the injustices in a part of the world that doesn't even effect me, is never gonna be as important on a personal level as Maynard talking about a subject that affects humanity. To me anyway.

"He's good, but to say he's the best? I don't think he'd be in my top five of the past two decades, to be honest."

But to say he's the best, what? I think he is because I don't believe any lyricist has matched the material he's wrote, coupled with the fact that no other band have lyrics that mean as much to me as Tool. Is Maynard's place in your lyricist list relevant at all to where I place him in mine? No. Whether you do or not really doesn't matter to me, if he was rock bottom in your list, I'd still rate him how I do.

-AC

do you know what post modernisim means? it means (just incase you or others dont know) that when people are presented with a form of media, each person takes in the media in a different way, desyphering it to mean different things. i was refereing not speciphicly to the lyrical content, nor the music, but the whole concept of "getting" tool. you yourself back my own argument up with this:



just then, you yourself have said that in the end destination is going to be different. How can more than one person "get" tool in the way described and be considered a "real" tool fan if each person ends up with a different message from the band?

Also, the whole "getting tool" question was more aimed at Alpha Centauri to begin with, as they have said it more than anyone else i've noticed

Yes, I do know what post-modernism means, I studied it for a good while. It certainly doesn't mean that.

At no point did I disclaim a different message for different fans. Not sure where you pulled that from.

The end destination is different to the initial listen. Doesn't have to be uniform.

i pulled it from here Vic, you use this as an analogy of for tool:

Gotta love the complete swerve on the post-modernism thing.

I'm not speaking for him, but before he confirms or denies that, isn't it a bit drastic to tell him what he made the analogy of?

Looked to me like he was speaking about something rather general.

-AC

see, you saw what he was saying and interpreted it one way, i saw it and interpreted it a different way, post modernism at work

Doesn't remove from the fact that you asked him if he knew what it meant, then took off on an explanation that had absolutely nothing to do with post-modernism.

But whatever. Is in the past.

-AC

indeed

Firstly, that's not what post-modernism is, it's a minor facet of it.

Secondly, I have explained the point you misunderstood, then re-misunderstood. Pointless posting it again so you can complete the hat trick. However read your own post: it doesn't back your argument. At no point does that say fans cannot gain a different message from the music.

Originally posted by room #99
tool are cool
tool are different
tool are original..very original
tool have a great drummer "Danny carey"
tool have a great vocalist " Maynard james"
tool tool tool tool tool.

Tool kicks ass



ageed

tool is excellent

i think tool are alright ive heard a couple of songs from them and there ok.

Listen to a full album. You'll be blown away.

Originally posted by room #99
tool are cool
tool are different
tool are original..very original
tool have a great drummer "Danny carey"
tool have a great vocalist " Maynard james"
tool tool tool tool tool.

Tool kicks ass

I completely agree with you.

Originally posted by Fearnix
I just wannted to see how many Views this thread get's


Sorry for the wasteing your time

i was seriousally going into this thread and just start BASHING you and then i saw the rest of it and i was muy happy

Tool doesn't suck. Overrated yes, but do they suck? No.

They're not overrated by a long shot.

Just because there happen to be alot of Tool fans on here.

Calling them overrated is rather rash.

-AC

Overrated on this site, yes. Overrated in general, no. I hardly ever hear them mentioned outside of the internet.. besides a few kids I know who wear their shirts.

But I think they are the type of band that starts to grow on you. I like them more now then I did when I first bought their albums.

Well they're not overrated on this site either. Every accolade they get, they deserve and are well earned.

I've never seen anyone comment on Tool and thought "That's a bit much."

But, each their own.

-AC

Well you're one of the biggest Tool fans on the site so of course you don't think they are overrated. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it's the truth.

But just mentioning Tool in any sort of negative sense is taken as some sort of eternal sin on this site, I just think that's overrating them a bit.

Now you're just wrong.

I'm not saying they're not overrated because I'm one of the biggest Tool fans here, I'm saying it coz they're not. I praise them higher more than anyone else, I believe they deserve all the accolades they've been given.

If someone were to say something that I thought was overrating them, such as "There'll never be a better band" I'd say so. Because there may very well be, it's highly possible. Right now and for a long time I don't believe there's been a better band. So it's not really possible to overrate them.

Just coz some idiots sign up with names such as Maynard-Is-God and take every negative Tool remark as a sin, doesn't mean they're overrated. Because 99% of this site's Tool fans are sensible.

-AC

You're saying they aren't overrated cause you don't think they are, obviously, but that's a matter of opinion. You being a huge fan does play a part in this because being a huge fan you think they deserve more praise than someone who isn't a huge fan. To act as if there's no connection between how much you like a band and whether you think they are overrated is just ridiculous.

It is possible to overrate them, just saying that it's impossible to overrate them is overrating them in my book. Saying that about any band is just ludicrous as far as I'm concerned.

Well that's where the issue becomes confused.

They're not overrated just because you don't agree with how high I rate them. An overrated band are U2, for example. They're actually not as good as some people claim they are by saying they're the best in the world today/ever musically and certainly not technically. Tool, whether you like them as much as me, anyone else or not, are quite clearly up there in that bracket of 'Best' either way. Because if you know about musical creation then listening to a Tool album and getting into it will show you that they're doing stuff with their instruments that either hasn't been done before, or has and they're just doing it better. That's if you don't really like the music that much. Which alone is enough.

I don't rate them high because I'm a fan though. Like I just said above, even if the music wasn't all that to me, I'd still rate them that highly on ability alone.

You claiming that they're overrated just because the music doesn't appeal to you as it does to people who do like it, doesn't qualify. Because I know many people who don't even like the music but rate them as one of the best ever based on musicianship alone.

Like I said, it is possible to overrate them if you say something like "There will never be a better band ever" or "There has never been a better band ever", coz there are candidates, strong ones. But you seem to look at how Tool fans or I praise them and because you don't agree, say they're overrated. They're not, we just like them more. There IS a difference.

-AC

What I don't understand about your post is that you seem to be saying that whether or not a band is overrated is some sort of fact that can be proven right or wrong.. it isn't and it can't. It's an opinion. An overrated band is a band that gets too much credit or a band that is rated too high. How much credit a band gets or how good it is is all a matter of opinion, what I might consider overrated you may not, and vice versa.

I actually like Tool, I own 4 of their albums, I just don't rate them as highly as you do. I'm liking them more and more as time goes on, but I am not a fanatic about it. I'm not denying their technical ability, I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm just saying I don't think their music is as good as some people make it out to be.

Technical ability is great but songwriting is just as important, if not more so. This is why I can't really enjoy classical music. It's the most technically talented music out there, but it just bores me, I don't find it to be interesting. Tool are good songwriters most of the time, but they aren't the greatest, sometimes they get a bit repetitive and I begin to lose interest. If you disagree with me, that's fine, but that doesn't make me "wrong."

Let me say once again that I don't think Tool are overrated in general, actually very underrated. Only on this site do I seem to think that a lot of people rate them higher than I do.

i dont like Tool... I love maynards voice.. but his lyrics and stuff are offensive... meh!

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
What I don't understand about your post is that you seem to be saying that whether or not a band is overrated is some sort of fact that can be proven right or wrong.. it isn't and it can't. It's an opinion. An overrated band is a band that gets too much credit or a band that is rated too high. How much credit a band gets or how good it is is all a matter of opinion, what I might consider overrated you may not, and vice versa.

No, you're getting it confused. We like Tool more than you, we're not overrating them. There's a difference. You might not be picking up on it but you are. You obviously missed the whole chunk of my post where I said that if I liked their music or not they'd still have the place they do for at least one reason. Overrating is measureable in terms of criteria. You can measure technical skill, so therefore, Tool's put them in the catagory of best band for it. That's not opinion. If you find them overrated for music, they're not. Not overrall. On this site? I still disagree but I can see why you say it. However, you have to realise that you're a passive Tool fan compared to others. It's not a matter of overrating, just a matter of liking them more.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I actually like Tool, I own 4 of their albums, I just don't rate them as highly as you do. I'm liking them more and more as time goes on, but I am not a fanatic about it. I'm not denying their technical ability, I'm not saying they aren't good, I'm just saying I don't think their music is as good as some people make it out to be.

Exactly. You just don't rate them as highly as I do. You're equating me liking something more, with overrating. That's now how it works. If I like apples and you don't, it doesn't mean they're overrated, it means you don't like apples and I do. You don't think their music is as good as most of us do, fine. Opinion is respected, but that's no grounds to say they're overrated considering the fact that you have many times said that you're not even properly into their albums. People who truly understand and get the band (not trying to demean your intelligence, I respect it. You're a smart guy and I do respect you in here) realise just why they are rated how they are. It's not something you can grasp if you're not at that level. Either way, it's not good to throw them in the overrated bin just because you don't like them as much.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Technical ability is great but songwriting is just as important, if not more so. This is why I can't really enjoy classical music. It's the most technically talented music out there, but it just bores me, I don't find it to be interesting. Tool are good songwriters most of the time, but they aren't the greatest, sometimes they get a bit repetitive and I begin to lose interest. If you disagree with me, that's fine, but that doesn't make me "wrong."

Let me say once again that I don't think Tool are overrated in general, actually very underrated. Only on this site do I seem to think that a lot of people rate them higher than I do.

Songwriting is more important, of course. You can stand there all day doing technical stuff but the music might be shit. My point is, even if you DON'T like the music, you have to acknowledge that the accolades bestowed upon Tool (eg: Best band in the world today/ever) still hold water based on technical ability alone. That's why I'm saying they're not overrated. Because they aren't, you just don't like the music as much.

Tool aren't "good" songwriters. Good is another word for well above mediocre. Maynard James Keenan is not only the best lyricist there is but he's also one of the very best vocalists. Danny Carey, Adam Jones and Justin Chancellor can all claim to be the best at what they do, although I wouldn't agree to that, they CAN easily claim it. Tool don't get repetitive, that IS fact. Because if you understand the themes in their songs or albums you'll know that they're never ever the same. Maybe they touch on a similar thing but each song is different in music and meaning.

You cannot label a band overrated just coz you don't like them as much.

-AC

i looked at this thread and i saw AC had posted last...i had a bet with myself that he would be arguing with someone..i was was right

Isn't a vicious argument though, just disagreement.

I respect Afro Cheese.

-AC

i know yeah

any more good tool songs u reccomend?

ive only heard the patient and parabola

I can't recommend songs. They're not a songs band.

Buy the albums, or an album.

-AC

The man only owns one Tool album.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I can't recommend songs. They're not a songs band.

Buy the albums, or an album.

-AC

*in rocky balboas voice* your like a crazy brother to me..you know that?

Hahahaha.

Rocky Balboa, the man with the most legendary boxing technique ever.

Not gonna dignify Victor's reply with a response. Although I just sort of did.

-AC

who was victor aiming that at anyway

Me, as usual.

He has this habit of being a random shithead from time to time. Don't mind him, he's moderately cretinous. Victor.

-AC

good old victor meldrew

Nah he's not really stupid, he's actually a certifiable genius.

Is just a shithead, specifically to me. But we know each other, so don't take the dissing and jokes as serious.

-AC

i never take things on here serious

Suuuure.

-AC

u goddamn crazy son of a *****

i like tool

I don't feel like quoting everything and responding to it so I'll just try to go off memory. Can you please explain to me what the difference is between you rating them higher than I would rate them and you overrating them. Obviously it wouldn't be overrating them to you, but how is that not overrating them to me?

I get why people say they are the best out there today.. because they are a very tight group and all their music is done very well instrumentally. I don't know if I "get" them on the same level as anyone else, and really it doesn't matter to me. Yes you can be overrated on technical ability but that's not the only way you can be overrated. People don't only claim Tool are very good at their instruments.

And their guitarist.. forget his name I think it's Adam Jones but I'm not sure.. is not one of the greatest guitarists and really doesn't have enough credibility to call himself that. Maybe that's just me, but he doesn't seem that great.

When I said songwriting I wasn't referring to their lyrics, I actually like a lot of Tool's lyrics save for a few songs. I was referring to the music. The actual songs.

EDIT: Also, thank you for responding in a respectful way. Though I may disagree with you in some cases, I also respect your opinion.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I don't feel like quoting everything and responding to it so I'll just try to go off memory. Can you please explain to me what the difference is between you rating them higher than I would rate them and you overrating them. Obviously it wouldn't be overrating them to you, but how is that not overrating them to me?

Ok, I'll explain it once more for the last time.

You need to realise the difference. You don't like them as much as the Tool fans here, correct? You like them though, right? Well...there IS a huge difference between us overrating the band, and us just liking them more. They aren't overrated just because we rate them higher than you do. Overrating is giving them accolades they do not deserve and to ONE DEGREE OR ANOTHER they deserve the ones they get, you've agreed with me there. Tool fans on this board don't give them any accolade they don't deserve, although some go over the top with it, it's nothing unrealistic. You don't like them as much, that's fine. If you like Immortal Technique and I do too, but not as much, that doesn't mean you're overrating the man. It means you like him more than I do. If you still don't get it, sorry.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
I get why people say they are the best out there today.. because they are a very tight group and all their music is done very well instrumentally. I don't know if I "get" them on the same level as anyone else, and really it doesn't matter to me. Yes you can be overrated on technical ability but that's not the only way you can be overrated. People don't only claim Tool are very good at their instruments.

No, they don't. You're missing the point again so please, if you're not gonna pick it up, don't bother replying.

It really doesn't matter to you? Ok then cool. So then why label them overrated? Chances are that if you "got" them as much as me or other Tool fans, you'd agree with us. You don't though, why? Because we like them more. It's nothing to do with overrating.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
And their guitarist.. forget his name I think it's Adam Jones but I'm not sure.. is not one of the greatest guitarists and really doesn't have enough credibility to call himself that. Maybe that's just me, but he doesn't seem that great.

He is, factually in terms of technical ability. It's measurable and proveable.

As far as what he creates, well I don't know. If you don't like it that much, cool. It's some of the greatest guitar work there has been from a musical standpoint.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
When I said songwriting I wasn't referring to their lyrics, I actually like a lot of Tool's lyrics save for a few songs. I was referring to the music. The actual songs.

Yeah and so was I.

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
EDIT: Also, thank you for responding in a respectful way. Though I may disagree with you in some cases, I also respect your opinion.

No worries.

-AC

Maybe overrated isn't the correct term, but I'm having trouble thinking of a better one to describe my sentiments. I just think that if you read a lot of the threads on this forum you'd get the idea that Tool is a the best thing that ever happen to music, and I obviously disagree with that. Not only because of how good people say they are, but because almost everyone besides me seems to agree that they are that good.

But I'm tired of arguing this point, and I really don't like to post negative things about Tool cause I actually quite like them and I know a lot of people here do too.

They're just exposed alot on this site.

That's all.

-AC

Originally posted by Morning_Glory
i dont like Tool... I love maynards voice.. but his lyrics and stuff are offensive... meh! How are Tool's lyrics offensive? And for the overrated comments, Hardly... i have yet to meet any other tool fan outside of KMC

He's referring to KMC solely.

-AC

TOOL are way over rated....
its not only on KMC

I have a total of 2 friends who are real Tool fans.. and then I know a couple kids who kinda like them but not that much. I'd say they're underrated outside of this website, at least in my school they are.

Tool aren't way overrated.

This is gonna sound pretentious, elitist and some will say arrogant but it happens to be true:

If you think they're way overrated, you don't understand them or the music they make.

Not an insult, just truth.

-AC

your right it did sound pretentious

but what you said is not true

thats a point i just got salival box thingy droolio

Yeah it is true, sorry.

They're not way overrated.

-AC

you live in america right??

UK.

It makes no difference.

I know they're much more well known there, so I respect that your view will encorporate that. However, if you allow that to influence your view, it's silly.

I don't overrate Tool and I rate them about as high as anyone could possibly. Musically and technically they deserve every bit of praise they get.

-AC

i'm also from the U.K

thank you


Well as i say each to there own, i dobt we will ever agree on this so shall we leave it at that?

no ..carry on...enjoy yaselves

(Everyone missed my nationality joke.)

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Tool aren't way overrated.

This is gonna sound pretentious, elitist and some will say arrogant but it happens to be true:

If you think they're way overrated, you don't understand them or the music they make.

Not an insult, just truth.

-AC

That's not entirely accurate because then you're not accounting for the people who just say they "get them" for the sake of acceptance, the people who follow the music and not the message, leaving the people that "get" the complexities of the lyrics, can actually appreciate the craftsmanship of the music, and so on.

IMO, they peaked with "Aenima", and kind of lost steam ever since, and when the big Volcano records outout fiasco came and went, and "Lateralus" dropped, I really think it showed, because it came off really stale and pretentious, IMO.

What "ratings" do people take into account, and if a band is "overrated", who's input really matters? It's all opinion. There are some aspects of their music that stand out, of which can't be denied and hold up to scrutiny, but do you think that everyday fans critiques are what makes up the way the band is percieved to the public, or is it the beat writers?

Who's opinion that either makes the band overrated or underappreciated is what is in question. Overrated and overappreciated are two entirely different things, and conversely, they go hand in hand, because nobody can make the distinction since no one person's opinion is greater than the other, because that's all they are. Opinions.

In closing, I can think they are overrated because, and this is what I feel to be fact, not presenting it so boldly as such, a lot of the people doing the "rating" in the first place are partial fans who think they can do no wrong. Like any successful band, the naysayer's opinions can rarely be appreciated, although when they have strong supporting opinions, they're still obsolete in a diehard fans eyes.

Personally, I don't think they are overrated, there's just a lot of fanaticism and hype over a band who was ahead of their time, but decided to stay stuck in it, instead of progressing.

Basically, you agreed with what I'm saying. On the site there's alot of fanaticism. I wouldn't say it's bad, but it's there. I agree.

Fanaticism doesn't equal overrating though. Because they most certainly aren't.

I certainly don't have any idea how you can claim they didn't progress with Lateralus. Maybe they didn't progress in the way you wanted them to, but they did progress.

You, like Afro, have my respect in terms of your right to an opinion. Although I disagree.

I don't buy the whole "no opinion is greater." Coz they can be. "Simple Plan rule." "Simple Plan suck".

-AC

Personally I think Lateralus is better than Aenima,
Not by alot, but still better

IMO..

Aenima > Lateralus > Undertow > Opiate

Nothing wrong with preferring Aenima, I went back and forth between Lat and Aenima for a while.

Tool progressed with Lateralus, tremendously. Whether it was in the direction you wanted or not, I don't know. There was progression.

-AC

I have a hard time comparing Aenima and Lateralus to Undertow and Opiate somehow. In my head I tend to think of Aenima and Lateralus as one thing, and Undertow and Opiate as another... Aenima being the "transition" between the two parts. I like Undertow and Opiate almost equally as well as the other two, just depends on my mood.

Well I haven't listened to Opiate and Undertow as much as Aenima and Lateralus. Maybe they will grow on me more, but right now I like their two latest albums most. Lateralus vs Aenima is a close call.. but I like Aenima a little bit more.

I think technically Lateralus is superior in terms of progression.

In my opinion they achieved superior music as a result, but that can always be argued.

-AC

Lateralus is a technically flawless album, but I personally like Aenima better. Best Tool album=Lateralus, favorite Tool album=Aenima.

I wansn't really talking about technical progression to be honest, just personal preference.

The first half of Lateralus is great; The Grudge, The Patient, Schism, and Parabola. I like it more than the first half of Aenima. But I think Aenima ends better and overall I just like the sound on Aenima more, it just sounds more... raw. Lateralus is still a favorite too, though.

I agree.

Only Tool song thats really struck me as good is Parabola..

tool ... imo, theyre ok. i can listen to them if someone else wanted to
but i wouldnt chose to

i wouldnt say they suck though

Probably not the band for you then.

-AC