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Who wins this round? I know Colossus cant get hurt and Sabretooth has a healing facotr like Wolverine. SO who do you think would win?

Colossus would crush Sabretooth's skull, if this is the one without adamantium. If he has an adamantium skeleton, Colossus simply knocks him out and rips his heart from his chest.

what he said...

The Wolverine vs Colossus debate when on forever. I'm surprised this one doesn't have more heat on it.

Well, it is because Sabretooth doens't have an crazy fanboy army behind him.

You know, I believe that they form from Logan's sweat...

lol..so that's where they come from. Sabretooth looses big time with or without adamantium..oh yeah..Wolvie would loose too..if it weren't for his fanboys...

FYI Spider Man has kicked Sabretooths arse already....

I understand that but Sabretooth has a high durability and a healing factor, so I dont know.

Collossus is in Superman's league, Count. Could you really see Sabretooth taking on Supes? lol.

I personally think Collossus would stomp Sabretooth's head into the ground in seconds.

Just my two cents.

when you look it at that way I guess Sabretooth has no chance

that's an interesting point - how is it that more people voted for Logan than Colossus in their fight but this is almost unianimously in favor of Colossus over Sabretooth?

Tell me - Sabretooth is supposed to have an adamantium skeleton now, right? Does that include claws as well? Because otherwise, even if Sabes had the skill to land shots on Colossus (and he should), without something to actually piece Colossus' hide, Colossus could just stand there and Sabes would hurt himself trying to hurt Colossus.

No. Superman and Colosses are notin the sameleague. Juggy is around Supe's league,and he thrashed Colosses without blinking. He was pretty much just sitting there, while Coll. was really trying toget him.

colossus isn't in supes league...

however he's come a long way and is more formidable than most people realise...

he'd crush sabertooth...

sabretooth with adamantium would have a better chance against colossus than wolverine ever had against the hulk, and wolverine doesn't always do too badly there, so i think sabretooth could cut colossus's throat, then leave and it would just be a matter of waiting untill he transforms back and dies

colossus wins i dont even need to give a reason its just obvious

uh huh......... it's great how your argument is so obvious even though others have given decent arguments against it........ perhaps you're having trouble thinking of a good scenario, give it time, in the right situation either of these two could win but reasons are the thing you should be adding given that it's a discussion thread

sabertooth with adamantium still isn't as strong as colossus...

colossus is pretty durable, even when it comes to adamantium...

i can see him taking sabertooth...

it's not about strength for sabretooth or wolverine, it's more to do with how much they can take and come back from, and i think sabretooth can take as much as colossus can dish out and then some now that he's adamantium enhanced, i don't think the reverse is true

colossus can take a hell of a lot now, he's arguably superior to thing (in fighting ability), and a lot more durable... he's intelligent enough to figure out a way to kill sabertooth, his strength outclasses sabertooths by a good long way... and he's faster than most people believe...

his organic steel skin is extremely strong, even against the likes of wolverine and sabertooth, he can last long enough to take sabertooth imo...

his strength was never in question and i know he's quicker than he looks but after years of reading wolverine i know what sabretooth is capable of too and i think he has the edge in killer instinct and stamina

killer instinct yes... stamina no imo... colossus barely tires at all in his metal form... he doesnt even need to breathe for a hell of a long time... there are ways to negate a healing factor if you use your brain, but those are dependant on the environment...

this is true, but colossus doesn't heal in armoured form (well he never used to before, god knows what he can do now since yet another x-character upgrade) so whatever damage sabretooth does to him will still be there when he transforms and then he will die regardless of who won the fight so at best colossus could hope for a draw

he doesnt heal, but thats assuming sabertooth can damage him in the first place before colossus takes him down...

and i wouldn't bet against colossus killing him, he's killed before...

it's possable, but given that sabretooth has adamantiun claws not unlike wolverine and is stronger than wolvy as well it's a safe bet he could damage colossus, he wouldn't even need to cut that deep for it to be fatal and i;m sure he'd get in way more than one shot

thats true, but colossus hits really f*cking hard, if he ever actually cut loose i think he could rip sabertooth a new one...

you could say the same about the hulk and wolverine though and logan (or are we calling him james now?) survives every encounter with the old green meenie

side point, after waiting decades to give wolverine an origin they could have come up with a less stupid name, james is fine but howlett..... c'mon, because he's slightly anamalistic they have to put howl in his name??? they may claim one has nothing to do with the other but that's not how it comes across and it's not like no-one at marvel would have noticed, so i think it must have been deliberate...... that's my biggest dissapointment with them in a while........ that and turning puma back into a bit part savage in that mr x storyline after all his character developement in the spider-man titles........ oh , and the whole "wizard turning sandman evil again" and ......... well........... a lot now that i think about it, but i wont bore you with all my gripes just now........ maybe later

i really hate any wolvie/hulk comparisons, marvel writers must be smoking something nowadays...

as for the rest... i'm not a logan fan so i don't care either way.. though his name does seem a bit crap...

Wolvie only comes off well in his fights against Hulk because he's such a popular character. I mean, if people think that the likes of Superman would have trouble against the Green Guy, then surely Wolves would be decimated by him...?

???? Colossus doesn't have superspeed. You should edit.

sounds like someone is mistaking colossus for superman...

easy mistake to make....... superman's the big shiny metal guy....... right?

lol! Hey, could've been Steel....

Nah - just been reading Glad vs Collossus - got them mixed up in my head for some reason lol

Sabretooths claws are alot smaller than Wolverines and I think that his claws would be useless in this fight. Good thing for that healing factor but I dont think that is enough.

the only reason that there is a big beef over wolverine is becasue he's fast, agile, and has 12 in claws popping out of his hands. collosus wins

the length of the claws is irrelevent, 2 inch or 12 inch it'll still cut him, sabretooth is still faster than colossus and more agile and he's had way more practice killing people

What a lot of people don't realise is that it's not just the material that something is made of that enables it to cut something, it's the force behind it.

I could have diamond tipped spikes sticking out of my hand, but if I punched a wall, it wouldn't leave a mark - I'm not strong enough.

Same with Sabretooth - just because he's got adamantium claws doesn't necessarily mean he's gonna cut Col open.

thats the thing, there have been occasions where colossus' hide has proven most durable against wolverine's claws... and with his recent upgrade he is incredibly durable... i'm not sure sabertooth would last long enough in this fight to actually cut him...

yes he is more agile... but his speed isnt that exponentially superior to colossus, and colossus when he's been pissed enough has killed... during the mutant massacre he killed riptide... he also killed proteus... when colossus is pushed he's more than willing to kill...

Colusus, hes much stronger now and incredibly more powerful.

i could put a hole in a wall with spikes......... but i'd probably break my hand and wrist, as for sabretooth, well he's very strong and doesn't have to worry about broken bones, wolverine has cut through a wide range of metals before without much trouble and sabretooth is stronger than him

if this debate comes down to whether sabretooth can cut colossus i guess we'll have to wait to see if it happens in the comics......... but i think he is able to do it

Isn't any damage Colossus sustains in armored form nullified when he reverts back to flesh form? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

no, if he's damaged in armoured form he has the equivelant damage when he transforms, he can heal in normal form but not in armoured

that's why when he had a spinal injury he stayed in metal form for a very long time then the other x-men captured him on muir island(he had joined up with magneto for a time) and forcibly remolded his metal spine back to normal so he could transform and be more human again........ not that there's anything wrong with being a mutant

yes... that is true...

we just don't know for sure whether sabertooth can actually cut him...

let's not forget, when sabretooth is sporting adamantium, colossus is just organic steel. no doubt colossus is stronger, but sabretooth is faster, more vicious, and with claws that will literally cut through anything, he could take colossus' head off and win.

but we would never let that happen cause colossus is awesome and sabretooth sucks.

as much as i admire you being a colossus fan...

he has shown a resistance to wolverine's claws in the past...

we don't know for sure just how effective those claws will be against him...

this fight has already taken affect, it was during aoa, and sabertooth was beating the crap out of colossus, ending with sabertooth laughing at colossus because he couldnt take the heat. That was sabertooth without adamantium, imagine he will do with it. And yes wolverine has cut thru colossus before, but it was a mistake, a flesh wound and wolverine can do it sabertooth isnt having a problem. Sabertooth is winning this fight hands down.

Colossus is on superman league, especially in the durability dept. Colossus will give superman a run for his money, he might lose but it will be a long fight. And you cant compare superman and juggernaut. i actually think juggernaut is in a different class than superman. Current superman bleeds on a regular basis, juggernaut dont know what blood is, unless he has someone bleed. superman gets slapped around by batman, juggernaut is unstoppable by any known force on the planet. superman powers comes from the sun, juggernaut powers is pumping from a powerful, feared, god. They are different in all aspect.

I'd have to concede with most that;s been said. It's not the fact that Sabertooth has adamantium claws , it's the force with which he tries to hurt colossus. Also remember his organs are also turned to organic steel. I don't think Sabertooth could do much more than dent the guy, and by then he'd already have sustained more damage than he can heal so quickly. And since we're invoking stupidly written/thought of fights, like AoA, i'll invoke Evo where rogue after stealing colossus's power turns to organic steel and throws sabertooth around like a rag doll.

~wickerman~

I just cant see Sabretooth doing any real damage to Colossus in any way. His claws are short and just covered in adamantium. He may be strong but not strong enough to cut Colossus with those claws. His healing factor will keep him in the fight for awhile.

Colossus on the other hand has few ways to win too but he could choke him to death with his raw power. Or he could or drown him if they were near water.

haha,........sabertooth is dead in like 5.45 seconds.......and did he get an upgrade.....becasue from what i know he is like class 2......well....colossus is 100+.....the claws wont even go into his organic armor....colossus will kill him in a few minutes......

Colossus in 4 panels

Originally posted by colossus17
haha,........sabertooth is dead it like 5.45 seconds.......and did he get an upgrade.....becasue from what i know he is like class 2......well....colossus is 100+.....the claws wont even go into his organic armor....colossus will kill him in a few minutes......

colossus is in the 70 tons class range.

~wickerman~

Originally posted by Wickerman
colossus is in the 70 tons class range.

Where have you been sleeping?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Where have you been sleeping?

excuse me?

~wickerman~

Colossus used to be class 70 when he was a teenager now that he is mature now he can lift over 100 tons.

It says so in the X-men guide the updated version.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Colossus used to be class 70 when he was a teenager now that he is mature now he can lift over 100 tons.

I sincerely doubt that. Can you give me a refference?
edit: just saw you edited your post. I don't own that updated guide, so you're probably right.

~wickerman~

I edited my post.

The X-men guide from 2003. The updated version.

yeah all versions of colossus.....are high class 100

Originally posted by colossus17
yeah all versions of colossus.....are high class 100 That is not true. He used to be class 70 when he first joined the team.

Since reaching adulthood he is over 100 tons.

i mean at this time.....like ultimate.and others...yeah when first he joined he used to be 70...

Originally posted by colossus17
i mean at this time.....like ultimate.and others...yeah when first he joined he used to be 70...

which goes to say even more as to how much more difficult it would be for good ol' sabertooth

~wickerman~

Ever think about Colossus just strangling Sabretooth?
The guy needs to breath.

And everytime Wolverine tried to cut Colossus, he couldn't.
Creed goes down.

Creed is class 20-40 isn't he?
How the hell is Wolverine ever going to beat him now?

Originally posted by long pig
How the hell is Wolverine ever going to beat him now?

vastly superior fighting skills.

~wickerman~

Slighty better maybe, vastly? not a chance.

They are as about as equal as they come.

Originally posted by long pig
Slighty better maybe, vastly? not a chance.

They are as about as equal as they come.

Think of the ratio of fights won by wolverine in logan vs. creed fights. That should mean somethin. And also, we're off topic with wolverine in this thread. It's about sabertooth and colossus, and i think we've established colossus would take him down

~wickerman~

True, it means they are even.

Originally posted by long pig
True, it means they are even.

O_o
Is that an exact number? Because i was under the impression that wolverine won more often. But of course, i was also under the same impression when it came to wolveine vs. deadpool and then i woke up from my little dream and realized he only won when deadpool wanted it. So i'm most likely wrong this time as well.

~wickerman~

2 or 3 punches and Sabretooth goes down.

Exact?

To my knowledge Sabretooth has won a few more times than Wolvie.

Think back to when they first started fighting, Sabretooth beat him almost everytime, then after a while they became sort of equal.

Originally posted by long pig
Exact?

To my knowledge Sabretooth has won a few more times than Wolvie.

Think back to when they first started fighting, Sabretooth beat him almost everytime, then after a while they became sort of equal.

you mean the early comics where Sabertooth would show up on every one of wolverine's b-days? Cause i read somewhere that those were all implanted memories or something, not actual fact.

~wickerman~

in the ultimate universe colossus eyes are vulnerable that might be true in mainstream aswell so if sabertooth could claw his eyes colossus would be in alot of pain if his eyes are invulnerable then i dont see any way of sabertooth doing alot of damage to colossus other than a few swipes

and what x-men guide had colossus cuz the marvel handbook dont have him in it

Originally posted by life is cruell
in the ultimate universe colossus eyes are vulnerable that might be true in mainstream aswell so if sabertooth could claw his eyes colossus would be in alot of pain if his eyes are invulnerable then i dont see any way of sabertooth doing alot of damage to colossus other than a few swipes

and what x-men guide had colossus cuz the marvel handbook dont have him in it

in 616 it's said his eyeballs can withstand and deflect the impact of a .45 caliber bullet.

~wickerman~

Colossus wins 8/10.

Love your sig, snoopdog.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Love your sig, snoopdog. Thanks. I thought it was a kodak moment so I used it.

Sabretooth would win it clealy stats adumantium can cut through any substance known to man and colossus is JUST steel he would cut through collosus and most of you dont know crap bout sabes but his fighting skill are EXTREMLY HIGH and it much higher than colossus not to mention hes faster ha! "c man" has no chance.

It's not "just steel" Colossus is extremely durable.

organic steel.

anyways Sabre-Tooth should and could cut him

Yeah, with his strength it is very probable.

There only one scan that indicates Logan might not beable to cut colossus. also states it did cut him, however it dident apear more then a rake, this however could have been from the leverage and type of assault. Colossus as sinces then and before then been pritty clear on his believe that Logan claws can and would cut him.

Sabre-tooth being as strong as he is gives him no doubts about him beign able to cut colossus

Is Colossus more durable than omnium? I wonder.

Originally posted by Battlehammer


Sabre-tooth being as strong as he is gives him no doubts about him beign able to cut colossus um sabretooth doesnt have adamantium in this fight

It wasn't specified uhuh

when this thread was created sabre-tooth did posses a adamatium

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It wasn't specified uhuh well I usually take it that sabretooth doesn't have adamantium UNLESS specified since a lot of ppl dont even realize creed did have it at one point

Rules are rules. If Sabes had adamantium back then, then we're supposed to use that version.

i believe he did, sicince the thread was created during or before 2006.


also people really shouldent be making threads about sabre-tooth if they dident even know he possed adamatium

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Rules are rules. If Sabes had adamantium back then, then we're supposed to use that version. so when ppl debate superman vs thor thread, they're using the versions of back when the thread was created? nope.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
i believe he did, sicince the thread was created during or before 2006.


also people really shouldent be making threads about sabre-tooth if they dident even know he possed adamatium

lol true

If they didn't know 'bout adamantium, then what would they know 'bout all his upgrades? Nothing.

Originally posted by Starscream M
so when ppl debate superman vs thor thread, they're using the versions of back when the thread was created? nope.
actaully yes. There suposes to be using the current version of the character when the thread was made unless other was stated by the creator.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
lol true

If they didn't know 'bout adamantium, then what would they know 'bout all his upgrades? Nothing.
yup

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully yes. There suposes to be using the current version of the character when the thread was made unless other was stated by the creator. well they dont. ppl generally debate current versions of characters...even in threads created long time ago.

When they all agreed to do so, yes...

Originally posted by Starscream M
well they dont. ppl generally debate current versions of characters...even in threads created long time ago.
technically they shouldent be.

if we were discussing current sabre-tooth it be pointless he dead.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
When they all agreed to do so, yes...
this as well.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
if we were discussing current sabre-tooth it be pointless he dead.

That is why "pre-death" term exists.

Originally posted by Battlehammer


if we were discussing current sabre-tooth it be pointless he dead. well its obvious that we assume the characters are not dead

Originally posted by Starscream M
well its obvious that we assume the characters are not dead

If we go prior to his death he received another upgrade and was almost compeletly ferral

It could be argued whether or not it was an upgrade... I'd say it was a downgrade, 'cause he couldn't think straight.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It could be argued whether or not it was an upgrade... I'd say it was a downgrade, 'cause he couldn't think straight.
I disagree, it make little senses for Romulas to degrade Sabre-tooth when his intent was to establish which of the two would rises a head of the pack.

He practically begged Logan to kill him. I can't see Romulus messing with his mind being an upgrade.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He practically begged Logan to kill him. I can't see Romulus messing with his mind being an upgrade.

after he had his arm taken off, he was done he new it.


We ahve no idea what was done to him physically. I mean Romulus screwed with Wolverines mind when he upgraded him in order to kill superhero's what makes you think he would not have done the same to Sabre-tooth?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
after he had his arm taken off, he was done he new it.


We ahve no idea what was done to him physically. I mean Romulus screwed with Wolverines mind when he upgraded him in order to kill superhero's what makes you think he would not have done the same to Sabre-tooth?

Losing an arm doesn't mean losing the will to live/fight. Not when you're Sabretooth

True, we have no idea what was done to him... we know about brainwashing, though... and that couldn't be called an upgrade.

Romulus just wanted to see if Logan had the guts to finish 'Tooth. Wild Child stated that.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Losing an arm doesn't mean losing the will to live/fight. Not when you're Sabretooth

True, we have no idea what was done to him... we know about brainwashing, though... and that couldn't be called an upgrade.

Romulus just wanted to see if Logan had the guts to finish 'Tooth. Wild Child stated that.
it does when you realize you cant heal it again. lol

However the change in scent, the fact he was in a tube ect. all suggest he was upgraded, as well as the fact he thrashed wolverine.

No he stated that he was surprised with the out come of Logan decision. Romulas is always trying to find which of the two Blonde or Black will emerge as the one most fitt to survive.

logan killing sabretooth was a dumb thing for writer's to pull...creed is like the best wolverine enemy

battlehammer, do you know off the top of your head what would be the best issues of wolverine to read about sabretooth?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
it does when you realize you cant heal it again. lol

However the change in scent, the fact he was in a tube ect. all suggest he was upgraded, as well as the fact he thrashed wolverine.

No he stated that he was surprised with the out come of Logan decision. Romulas is always trying to find which of the two Blonde or Black will emerge as the one most fitt to survive.

Lady D fought Logan with one arm. I'm pretty sure Sabes is much more badass

You're just speculating. I doubt Sabes needed more upgrades. By the way, it wouldn't be a fair game then. The new scent could mean that it wasn't the real 'Tooth. If Marvel ever did bring Creed back, they would mention that different scent and say that it was just a clone.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Lady D fought Logan with one arm. I'm pretty sure Sabes is much more badass

You're just speculating. I doubt Sabes needed more upgrades. By the way, it wouldn't be a fair game then. The new scent could mean that it wasn't the real 'Tooth. If Marvel ever did bring Creed back, they would mention that different scent and say that it was just a clone.
when?



Speculating based off past events. No, but there no reason he wasent getting one. Scent indicates he was altered, and the test tube strengthen this.

clone wouldent work, sabre-tooth cant be correctly cloned.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
when?



Speculating based off past events. No, but there no reason he wasent getting one. Scent indicates he was altered, and the test tube strengthen this.

clone wouldent work, sabre-tooth cant be correctly cloned.

Wolverine v2 #37.

Look, if everybody who was in the test tube got some upgrades, then all Marvel superheroes/villains would be around skyfather level now lol.

Romulus is better at genetics than Sinister.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wolverine v2 #37.

Look, if everybody who was in the test tube got some upgrades, then all Marvel superheroes/villains would be around skyfather level now lol.

Romulus is better at genetics than Sinister.
oh ok

ecpt for the fact we know both Romulas and weapon x program upgrade there operatives. The fact Logan notices a differences in Sabre-tooth suggest this, the fact he was put in a tube suggest this.

based on what? I mean Sinister has been able to clone pritty much everyone and has shown such knowledge of genetics for years

Originally posted by Battlehammer
oh ok

ecpt for the fact we know both Romulas and weapon x program upgrade there operatives. The fact Logan notices a differences in Sabre-tooth suggest this, the fact he was put in a tube suggest this.

based on what? I mean Sinister has been able to clone pritty much everyone and has shown such knowledge of genetics for years

Romulus wanted to see who would win. It wasn't his goal to ensure Victor's victory by upgrading him (again...). Sabes was more feral than ever and had a different scent, Wolverine didn't notice him being somewhat stronger/faster/etc. If he did, he would state that.

Based on Romulus' own statement. And the clone wouldn't have to be perfect, just accurate enough so Logan could be fooled.

Collosus dominates

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Romulus wanted to see who would win. It wasn't his goal to ensure Victor's victory by upgrading him (again...). Sabes was more feral than ever and had a different scent, Wolverine didn't notice him being somewhat stronger/faster/etc. If he did, he would state that.

Based on Romulus' own statement. And the clone wouldn't have to be perfect, just accurate enough so Logan could be fooled.

Actually his goal was to see if wolverine could overcome. Logan dident really have much time he was KO rather fast. Why would sabes be more feral and his scent alter if not to increase his abilities. Seem rather odd that Romulas would do such things with out thinking it advances Sabre-tooth, it be rather a waste of time other wises.


which was? Expect Logan would no the differences between a clone or his most hated enemy or the real deal. His senses are incredible

probably posted already, but Colossus for a healthy majority...

^That

And there is a possibility that the Sabertooth killed was a clone. (I really hope this is what happened)

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wolverine v2 #37
Romulus is better at genetics than Sinister. Say what?!

I don't think it was. Wolverine would have notices, plus there the hole thing about no one being able to including sinister to accurately clone Sabre-tooth or his healing factor. Even the skrulls after vast amount of time were unable to completely clone wolverine and they put quite a bit of effort into it. The healing factor seems to complicate cloning

Well, considering Romulus has been around longer than Sabes and Logan, and he's had all the time since he knew them to work on their genetics, I think it's well within his range to clone either one.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Actually his goal was to see if wolverine could overcome. Logan dident really have much time he was KO rather fast. Why would sabes be more feral and his scent alter if not to increase his abilities. Seem rather odd that Romulas would do such things with out thinking it advances Sabre-tooth, it be rather a waste of time other wises.



He was KO'd fast 'cause he was confused about 'Tooth's new scent and pointlessly tried to reason with him.

Having Sabretooth entered a perpetual berserker rage was enough, no need for further enhancements. Let's agree to disagree on that one.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
which was? Expect Logan would no the differences between a clone or his most hated enemy or the real deal. His senses are incredible

Oh, Logan noted a difference... the new scent. Marvel doesn't care about non-lame resurrections, any explanation is good for 'em... a clone one is classic one, so they'd probably use it. Probably.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5908/wolverinev3054pg20.th.jpg

Originally posted by Mindset
Say what?!

Romulus wasn't in v2, you misquoted me.

That part of the quote had nothing to do with anything, it just wasn't deleted.

Basing on that quote one would think that I misplaced events. And I really don't see the point of deleting just one non-related fragment and leaving another, but whatever...

I missed deleting it, Jesus Christ, way to focus on such an inconsequential thing and neglecting to even acknowledge the important part...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He was KO'd fast 'cause he was confused about 'Tooth's new scent and pointlessly tried to reason with him.

Having Sabretooth entered a perpetual berserker rage was enough, no need for further enhancements. Let's agree to disagree on that one.


Oh, Logan noted a difference... the new scent. Marvel doesn't care about non-lame resurrections, any explanation is good for 'em... a clone one is classic one, so they'd probably use it. Probably.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5908/wolverinev3054pg20.th.jpg

ok lets agree to disagree. Though Sabre-tooth does not go berserk like wolverine, he goes ferral. Berserk is more of a mind set, which amps Logan physically, but also allows him to retain his skills and tactical prowess's. Sabre-tooth is quite different from what berserk does.

Originally posted by Mindset
I missed deleting it, Jesus Christ, way to focus on such an inconsequential thing and neglecting to even acknowledge the important part...

Neglecting? Not me. Scan already posted.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
ok lets agree to disagree. Though Sabre-tooth does not go berserk like wolverine, he goes ferral. Berserk is more of a mind set, which amps Logan physically, but also allows him to retain his skills and tactical prowess's. Sabre-tooth is quite different from what berserk does.

Adrenaline boost works for Creed, too. But yeah, their rages are different.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Neglecting? Not me. Scan already posted. Yea, you're scan showed actually what you said, which is just a statement.

I'm not sure how that shows you didn't neglect to acknowledge the actual important part of my post.

He's thousand years older than Essex. Loeb&Way clearly want him to be Sinister's superior.

Good thing what Loeb wants is the exact opposite of reality.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Adrenaline boost works for Creed, too. But yeah, their rages are different.

yea. I mean Wolverine has gone into feral rages which happen during the time his adamatium was ripped out that were similar if not the same as Sabre-tooth. Wolverine berserker rages are quite different there a type of trance like state. He even explained in the Noval that it increases his skill level, allowing for him to gain the experiences of past lives it seems.

Well, taking into account the fact that Romulus considers Sinister and Xavier bumbling fools, obviously means they've written him to be more knowledgeable.

Yup, just like Doom says Reed is a fool.

OMG REED IS THE DUMMZ!1

Originally posted by Mindset
Good thing what Loeb wants is the exact opposite of reality.
Or perhaps the opposite of what you wish the reality was.

He extremely old. He was the first of his race. He suppose to be Apoc type villain. He if not mistaken might be older then Apoc. He has knowledge of genetics of his race superior to that of Sinister because he unlike Sinister knows that Wolverine, Sabre-tooth ect. are not technically the same as other mutants.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Or perhaps the opposite of what you wish the reality was.

He extremely old. He was the first of his race. He suppose to be Apoc type villain. He if not mistaken might be older then Apoc. He has knowledge of genetics of his race superior to that of Sinister because he unlike Sinister knows that Wolverine, Sabre-tooth ect. are not technically the same as other mutants. Yep, and when he backs up his supposed superiority with feats, than you and Loeb can be right.

Originally posted by Mindset
Yep, and when he backs up his supposed superiority with feats, than you and Loeb can be right.

Not saying he superior. I am saying he has more extensive knowledge of his race, the race in which he was the first. Which really is not debatable since he unlike Sinister knows that Wolverine, Sabre-tooth are not technically the same as ordinary mutants and is shown by the fact that Sinister can not correctly clone Sabre-tooth or his healing factor. Romulas on the other hand has correctly clone the healing factor of wolverine.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not saying he superior. Ok, then why are we talking?

Originally posted by Mindset
Ok, then why are we talking?
Well actually I am saying he superior when the genetics is that of one of his species.

Also if not mistaken he was able to return the powers of wolf bane, feral ect.

He also if not mistaken is the one who allowed for Dead Pool to posses the healing factor from Wolverine.

he also the reason it was genetically made possiable for Wolverine bones be be bonded with Adamatium.

He also was able to if not mistaken was able to genetically manipulate Wild Child to gain his powers again. Which included a healing factor, which Sinister has yet to be able to produce, becuase he can't figure out the genetic proccesses which is why Sabre-tooth clones are all incomplete, with out healing factors.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Well actually I am saying he superior when the genetics is that of one of his species.

Also if not mistaken he was able to return the powers of wolf bane, feral ect.

He also if not mistaken is the one who allowed for Dead Pool to posses the healing factor from Wolverine. Ok?

I don't see how that makes Romulus statement any more true.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Also if not mistaken he was able to return the powers of wolf bane, feral ect.

He didn't give them their powers back actually, he just altered their looks back to thier original form

Did Wolfsbane lose her powers in HoM?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Did Wolfsbane lose her powers in HoM?

No.

Originally posted by -K-M-
He didn't give them their powers back actually, he just altered their looks back to thier original form
I know originally, but I thought they now possessed them. He did alter Wild Child to gain his powers back did he not?

Originally posted by Mindset
Ok?

I don't see how that makes Romulus statement any more true.
Not sure what makes it not true.

He was saying they were trying to grasp genetics and the evolution of it all. They bumbling around in the dark is quite an accurate statement. They do understand genetics, but while they been trying to completely understand it in it entirety. He was there to watch it unfold, he knows how it happened, he was there to see it himself. He does not need to figure it out or understand it with experiments and analyzes it. Which is other words what he was saying. He already knows how it happen, he saw it happen.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I know originally, but I thought they now possessed them. He did alter Wild Child to gain his powers back did he not?

No Feral died soon after Romulus altered her looks and Thorrn has yet to be seen again if I'm not mistaken. Where did you hear that they got their powers back?

We don't fully know as it hasn't been revealed, Wild Child may have lost his second mutation ie. bat look, but Wild Child was modified from the Secret Empire regardless so he wouldn't be powerless thanks to their pre-existing modifications.

Originally posted by -K-M-
No Feral died soon after Romulus altered her looks and Thorrn has yet to be seen again if I'm not mistaken. Where did you hear that they got their powers back?

We don't fully know as it hasn't been revealed, Wild Child may have lost his second mutation ie. bat look, but Wild Child was modified from the Secret Empire regardless so he wouldn't be powerless thanks to their pre-existing modifications.

I must have been mistaken I could have sworn I saw them with powers I guesses not.


Modified with what attributes? Also why would his abilities remain with Maverick who was also modified lost all his powers including was that were given to him fully or modified as part of existing abilities.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Modified with what attributes? Also why would his abilities remain with Maverick who was also modified lost all his powers including was that were given to him fully or modified as part of existing abilities.

Wild Child was basically a normal teenager until the Secret Empire got a hold of him. Maverick didn't undergo the same process and had a different ability so can't really compare the two.

Wild Child
---------------------------------------------
Origin
---------------------------------------------
Alpha Flight #114 :
Here the Secret Empire continue tests on Kyle, while Wyre watches over

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlight114-01.jpg
2. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlight114-02.jpg
---------------------------------------------
Alpha Flight #117 :
History explaining Kyle was part of the Breed created by Wyre

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlight117-01.jpg
2. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlight117-02.jpg
3. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlight117-03.jpg
---------------------------------------------
X-Factor #142 (Vol.1):
Here are the beginnings of Wild Child from a normal human captured by the Secret Empire and experimented to meet their needs making an ultimate weapon. It was rumored Sabretooth was Kyle's real father as that's why he keeps going after Kyle trying to get him to follow him so they can be a team. Wild Child shows his great speed even rescuing Val from Sabretooth's clutches

1. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_07_rougher.jpg
2. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_08_rougher.jpg
3. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_09_rougher.jpg
4. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_10_rougher.jpg
5. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_11_rougher.jpg
6. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_12_rougher.jpg
7. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_13_rougher.jpg
8. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_14_rougher.jpg
9. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_15_rougher.jpg
10. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_16_rougher.jpg
11. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_17_rougher.jpg
12. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_18_rougher.jpg
13. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_19_rougher.jpg
14. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_20_rougher.jpg
15. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_21_rougher.jpg
16. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_22_rougher.jpg

Originally posted by -K-M-
Wild Child was basically a normal teenager until the Secret Empire got a hold of him. Maverick didn't undergo the same process and had a different ability so can't really compare the two.

Wild Child
---------------------------------------------
Origin
---------------------------------------------
Alpha Flight #114 :
Here the Secret Empire continue tests on Kyle, while Wyre watches over

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlight114-01.jpg
2. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlight114-02.jpg
---------------------------------------------
Alpha Flight #117 :
History explaining Kyle was part of the Breed created by Wyre

1. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlight117-01.jpg
2. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlight117-02.jpg
3. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l107/A_Flight11/AlphaFlight117-03.jpg
---------------------------------------------
X-Factor #142 (Vol.1):
Here are the beginnings of Wild Child from a normal human captured by the Secret Empire and experimented to meet their needs making an ultimate weapon. It was rumored Sabretooth was Kyle's real father as that's why he keeps going after Kyle trying to get him to follow him so they can be a team. Wild Child shows his great speed even rescuing Val from Sabretooth's clutches

1. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_07_rougher.jpg
2. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_08_rougher.jpg
3. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_09_rougher.jpg
4. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_10_rougher.jpg
5. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_11_rougher.jpg
6. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_12_rougher.jpg
7. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_13_rougher.jpg
8. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_14_rougher.jpg
9. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_15_rougher.jpg
10. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_16_rougher.jpg
11. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_17_rougher.jpg
12. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_18_rougher.jpg
13. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_19_rougher.jpg
14. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_20_rougher.jpg
15. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_21_rougher.jpg
16. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/xfactor_v1_142_22_rougher.jpg

This was recontt by Leob to being that he was also a mutant. So not sure this really explains at all about how he regained his powers.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
This was recontt by Leob to being that he was also a mutant. So not sure this really explains at all about how he regained his powers.

Even in those scans it says he was a mutant, but they put him through gene modification treatements making him what he is today.

Little side tidbit: Loeb wanted to retcon Sasquatch's orgins (make him lupine), but several writers even Scott Kolins called him on it.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Even in those scans it says he was a mutant, but they put him through gene modification treatements making him what he is today.

Little side tidbit: Loeb wanted to retcon Sasquatch's orgins (make him lupine), but several writers even Scott Kolins called him on it.
Oh I see. Then how is that different then Maverick? However thoses still controdict the recontt since he could not have possiably been alive during WW2 according to those events.

Yea I agree with that. Sas being reconnted was stupid. However it was pritty ambiguous and it quite easily be ignored about the whole sas thing, sinces it was never stated he was a Lupin only very losely implied. I actaully like the fact wild child was reconnt. Now we have the possiablity to see, more and to make him larger part of marvel. He had several awful incarnations, but he also had some cool was such as weapon omega.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Oh I see. Then how is that different then Maverick? However thoses still controdict the recontt since he could not have possiably been alive during WW2 according to those events.

Yea I agree with that. Sas being reconnted was stupid. However it was pritty ambiguous and it quite easily be ignored about the whole sas thing, sinces it was never stated he was a Lupin only very losely implied. I actaully like the fact wild child was reconnt. Now we have the possiablity to see, more and to make him larger part of marvel. He had several awful incarnations, but he also had some cool was such as weapon omega.

Because what happened in Weapon X to Kyle was considered a secondary mutation and Maverick had his pre-existing powers modified, but they were based off of his powers he was born with. Secret Empire gave Wildchild powers he never had or were connected to his mutant power thus completly different. Yep, we will have to wait and see I suppose. Been awhile since we seen him anyways

Naaaa...even Scott Kolins in an interview as Omega Flight was coming out at the same time mentioned he had to talk to Loeb. He was without a doubt going the lupine way. Thankfully most ignore that.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Because what happened in Weapon X to Kyle was considered a secondary mutation and Maverick had his pre-existing powers modified, but they were based off of his powers he was born with. Secret Empire gave Wildchild powers he never had or were connected to his mutant power thus completly different. Yep, we will have to wait and see I suppose. Been awhile since we seen him anyways

Naaaa...even Scott Kolins in an interview as Omega Flight was coming out at the same time mentioned he had to talk to Loeb. He was without a doubt going the lupine way. Thankfully most ignore that.
I am confused. So he was given powers, and then had a secondary mutation? were was the first mutation? Maverick powers given to him were connected to existing ones, he also had powers given to him from weapon x program that had no attachments to existing powers, but are also supose to be current non existent. hopefully we will see more of wild child.

oh I know Loeb ment it to go that way, but I am saying it was very ambiguous at the time and can be easily ignored without any type of reconnt

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Not sure what makes it not true.

He was saying they were trying to grasp genetics and the evolution of it all. They bumbling around in the dark is quite an accurate statement. They do understand genetics, but while they been trying to completely understand it in it entirety. He was there to watch it unfold, he knows how it happened, he was there to see it himself. He does not need to figure it out or understand it with experiments and analyzes it. Which is other words what he was saying. He already knows how it happen, he saw it happen. . . .Do you think he is the better geneticist, if so post proof, don't waste my time, I'm a busy man. thx