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Anyone thinks Shazam! ( a.k.a. Captain Marvel) would destroy superman in a battle? or would Superman kill off Captain Marvel?

Well in the Graphic Novel called Kingdom Come. Shazam was much more powerful especially as Shazam power is magic orientated. And Superman has a major weakness to it.

Superman was holding back. He withstood his attacks. He just wanted to knock some sense into the crazy bastard.

yeah but didn't actually make him bleed. Also he managed to stop superman mid flight

The bottom line is in all out fight, KC Superman would kill Captain Marvel eventually. KC Superman was physically superior to Marvel. Marvel's only leg up was the fact that his powers were magic based. He even got killed from a metahuman hardened warhead. Superman was in the same blast and emerged untouched. The current Captain Marvel though, can beat the current Superman with supreme effort.

This should be in the versus forum David. But, this isn't my forum so it'll just have to stay here for now.

LOL. I didn't even inform the guy.

Can anyone compare Shazam! ( a.k.a. Captain Marvel) to Superman?

How was KC Superman "physically superior?" Are they not considered to be nigh equals in terms of physical strength? Here is something to consider (and this was PC):

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~scunge/shazam/SupvsCap.jpg

At any rate, most consider his magical lightning the difference maker.

Re: the nuclear warhead blast, in Marvel's defense, he took on the warhead directly -- Superman was "near" the blast.

But he still was no match for Superman in bloodlust mode. Superman was significantly stronger than he currently is in KC. Nothing indicated to me that CM's strength had increased.

I have no clue what "bloodlust mode" is (was Superman in "bloodlust mode" in KC, since this is what you are referencing?). I do know that Captain Marvel was conceptualized to be Superman's physical equal, and then some (such that DC eventually sued Fawcett for copyright infringement).

What was proven in their standoff save that Superman can keep his hand over CM's mouth if CM stands perfectly still? CM's lightning had him on his knees bleeding out of every visible orifice; Superman took off to overtake the nuke and CM overtook him and rather easily tossed him aside.

Yet KC Superman was physically superior?

Never, "bloodlust" is explained in the new rules I just posted last night.

Actually, in Kingdom Come, Captain Marvel Grabbed the warhead and said shazam 3 times, without moving out of the way. In the Billy-Captain Marvel-Billy scenario, he would have been human when the warhead exploded.

Perhaps he needs to think these things thru a bit more....

For what i know, Captain Marvel is one of the rarest guys in DC who can take superman out.

there's a new crossover with them coming out. In this one, Superman's the one who's gone insane and caps there to smack soem sense

Isnt shazam's power partially based on magic??
If so, then regular supes is in for a butt-kicking

Superman gets his ass handed to him every time by Captain Marvel.

post crisis supes will get a good beat down only because shazaam is all about magic.

Originally posted by Never
How was KC Superman "physically superior?" Are they not considered to be nigh equals in terms of physical strength? Here is something to consider (and this was PC):

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~scunge/shazam/SupvsCap.jpg

At any rate, most consider his magical lightning the difference maker.

Re: the nuclear warhead blast, in Marvel's defense, he took on the warhead directly -- Superman was "near" the blast.

PC can mean post or pre crisis ya know.

wow i cant believe that yet another one of these snuck in again

Superman is physically stronger then Captain Marvel at a full strengh punch Kingdom Come Superman could have killed Captain Marvel you guys have to realize that Superman usually holds back with strength when he is fighting.

Originally posted by joesha28
For what i know, Captain Marvel is one of the rarest guys in DC who can take superman out.

Oh Yeah.

Yep. Magical punches are Superman's bane.

If Cap fights smart he'll should always beat Superman. However he doesnt. Except for one instance i can remember. If yall wanna see it holla.

I've got a soft spot for Shazam. I actually remember watching his live-action show on Saturday mornings(!) - travelling around in the mobile home with mentor, stepping outside when duty called to say SHAZAM - I would go into my backyard and try doing the same. He and Spider-Man were the first heroes I bonded with. It's too bad he spends so much time in Supes shadow, being one of the few who can take him down in a straight fight. Someday, a good writer will figure it out, and put him in the right place for the character to catch on.

Originally posted by jrodslam
If Cap fights smart he'll should always beat Superman. However he doesnt. Except for one instance i can remember. If yall wanna see it holla.

Let's see more!

Ok here goes

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/3431/sb04153xl.th.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/6937/sb04166ml.th.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2793/sb04171jv.th.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/6008/sb04180fm.th.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2345/sb04196hk.th.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8306/sb04202cz.th.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/50/sb04218ko.th.jpg

How Cap changes back without saying "SHAZAM" is beyond me. But ya gotta admit, that was a smart ass move. Lol.

Very nice; must be from a JSA comic. Didn't know about Hawkman's 'Claw or Horus' glove. Was Supes caught napping, hehe...

Originally posted by jrodslam
How Cap changes back without saying "SHAZAM" is beyond me. But ya gotta admit, that was a smart ass move. Lol.

Jeph Loeb's TERRIBLE writing.

Originally posted by Fanboy
Superman is physically stronger then Captain Marvel at a full strengh punch Kingdom Come Superman could have killed Captain Marvel you guys have to realize that Superman usually holds back with strength when he is fighting.

Go get yourself the DC encyclopedia. It says Marvel's is Superman equal in everything physical.

"Superman is physically stronger then Captain Marvel at a full strengh punch Kingdom Come Superman could have killed Captain Marvel you guys have to realize that Superman usually holds back with strength when he is fighting."

He wasent holding back. They wer trading punches evenly and he even used close range heat vision. And they started to square off before he started getting some sense on Billy.

The story also stated them as equals and nothing in the action makes it otherwise.

"Go get yourself the DC encyclopedia. It says Marvel's is Superman equal in everything physical."

Better yet. Check the comics where they fight.

"How Cap changes back without saying "SHAZAM" is beyond me. But ya gotta admit, that was a smart ass move. Lol. "

In the panel before that happened we only see the ligthinng hitting the ground, afar from the heroes. He is plot - hole(s) writer but in that case since they wer far " we didnt need to hear aloud Shazam" for it to happen.

We also had the Superman/Hawkman tussle between it. I take it as something that happened off panel. My pov.

There -was- a plot hole right after that happened, but thats another story. It was corrected in the TP anyway.

Bloodlusted Superman would smash the crap out of CM, it wouldn't be a contest. Check how fast Supes smashed the JLA in infinite crisis.

uh huh. And was Captain Marvel in that fight?

Originally posted by jrodslam
Ok here goes

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/3431/sb04153xl.th.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/6937/sb04166ml.th.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2793/sb04171jv.th.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/6008/sb04180fm.th.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/2345/sb04196hk.th.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/8306/sb04202cz.th.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/50/sb04218ko.th.jpg

Did you read that comic? The fight was staged.

Staged? well if Superman wins, it is rigged than.

hasn't supes shown lately that the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets? one more in a list of recent power ups, perhaps, to go along with a DECREASING vulnerability to magic (as stated by one of dc's own editors), apparent lightspeed velocity (see ww #219) AND burgeoning mental powers?

i've always loved cm, but i've also always thought that if both went all out, supes would be the one left standing.

I bet you, he won't. CM does not get mad in his fight yet he put Supes down. If he goes all out there might nothing left inside superman.

Superman even admitted in that panel, toe-to-toe Marvel has the advantage. How rare is the character who can outslug him?

Sing with the Ghostbuster tune:

If Superman is gonna get crazy,

Who gonna call?

CAPTAIN MARVEL!!!

na na na na na na

I'm not afraid of Kryptonian.....

They are never going to show one having a clear win against the other. Its due to the respect (at least) of Marvel once outselling Superman in everything.

That fight wasent rigged. Yes Marvel and Hawkman wanted to take them and fool Luthor, but how they took them wasent for jokes.

Unless you consider Hawkman ko Kal with that glove a sign of joke.

Or marvel making him bleed.

That's the worst fight I've ever saw.

First off they give Superman fans a reason to say Superman was weak by throwing in a kryptonite astroid.

Second, Batman with his god-kick......seriously.....

Third, "What's your name?" What's his name? You're supposed to be the greatest living detective and you didn't know that the dude can **** you up with lightning if he says his name? Why didn't you just kick him again you idiot?

Fourth, meh. I did like Hawkman busting out the glove. That was nearly awesome.

That was horrid.
I do like Captian Marvel, the character has potential, too bad they haven't found it in 50 years.

"Third, "What's your name?" What's his name? You're supposed to be the greatest living detective and you didn't know that the dude can **** you up with lightning if he says his name? Why didn't you just kick him again you idiot?"

That was the plot hole. Batman knows Billy its Captain Marvel. It was corrected in the Trade.

Also he though the kid was out already, and Billy made a fool out of him

Pretending your dead. Oldest trick in the book ol Bats, and you fell for it.

Start thinking of retirement. Maybe Todd does a better job.

<<I do like Captian Marvel, the character has potential, too bad they haven't found it in 50 years.>>

hahahah.

Originally posted by joesha28
Sing with the Ghostbuster tune:

If Superman is gonna get crazy,

Who gonna call?

CAPTAIN MARVEL!!!

na na na na na na

I'm not afraid of Kryptonian.....

Originally posted by leonidas
hasn't supes shown lately that the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets? one more in a list of recent power ups, perhaps, to go along with a DECREASING vulnerability to magic (as stated by one of dc's own editors), apparent lightspeed velocity (see ww #219) AND burgeoning mental powers?

i've always loved cm, but i've also always thought that if both went all out, supes would be the one left standing.

Luthor's got this weird looking guy to conduct experiments on him. And yes this was the final result of all the experimentation.

From the book Mythology: The DC Art Of Alex Ross - Ross gives his opinion on who should win between them.

"Realistically, I have to say Captain Marvel, which is ironic, because Superman is better known. But, he IS the World's Mightiest Mortal!"

Originally posted by leonidas
hasn't supes shown lately that the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets? one more in a list of recent power ups, perhaps, to go along with a DECREASING vulnerability to magic (as stated by one of dc's own editors), apparent lightspeed velocity (see ww #219) AND burgeoning mental powers?

i've always loved cm, but i've also always thought that if both went all out, supes would be the one left standing.

Superman doesn't really get stronger as he gets angrier, he just starts to hold back less. Superman at his full potential is ridiculous. Every punch he'd give would be like getting hit with a small nuke. But assuming a normal superman, this fight's gone either way so many times that you can't really decide on it. But if superman actually tried, he'd just fly at the sun. marvel is just as fast, but the the closer they get the stronger supes gets. Marvel gets owned. Besides, marvel is an idealistic little kid at heart. Supes while doesnt cheat like batman, can fight dirty. Long story short, superman sundips and tear's billys head off.

There are three immutable laws in the universe:

1. "The greatest band of all time is The Beatles."
2. "All sports teams from New York City are bums."
3. "No one can beat Superman. Ever."

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
There are three immutable laws in the universe:

1. "The greatest band of all time is The Beatles."
2. "All sports teams from New York City are bums."
3. "No one can beat Superman. Ever."

wat u seem to forget is the cripton weakness and the fact that if u keep SM away from sunlight long his powers fade and his just a man.

Originally posted by cheap cabbage
There are three immutable laws in the universe:

1. "The greatest band of all time is The Beatles."
2. "All sports teams from New York City are bums."
3. "No one can beat Superman. Ever."
1. Rolling Stones
2. NYC kicks your cities ass.
3. Superman is lame...like twino said...without the sun he is a nerd...so shazam can just blow up the sun and game over...

Originally posted by jgiant

3. Superman is lame...like twino said...without the sun he is a nerd...so shazam can just blow up the sun and game over...

How can Marvel blow up the sun? Punch it?

They had a great fight in Adventures of Superman #639 and Superman #216

Originally posted by The Ion
How can Marvel blow up the sun? Punch it? yep

They had a nice fight in The Power of Shazam #46 also.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/SupermanandCM.jpg

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/SupermanandCMarmwrestling.jpg

I still say Superman wins.

Originally posted by jgiant
yep
Awesome.

LOL I love it when writers use the "when he gets angry he gets this and that....." Yeah so what most people get temporarily stronger when they get angry big whoop about this with Superman

Anyway I always thought CM should win more of the fights simply due to the way he gets his powers....................its not only his experience but thousands of years of experience to back his as well would make a much better and seasoned fighter.

Originally posted by soleran30
LOL I love it when writers use the "when he gets angry he gets this and that....." Yeah so what most people get temporarily stronger when they get angry big whoop about this with Superman

Anyway I always thought CM should win more of the fights simply due to the way he gets his powers....................its not only his experience but thousands of years of experience to back his as well would make a much better and seasoned fighter. Thousands of years of experience?

Originally posted by The Ion
Awesome. Shazam wins there you have it...have a nice day...

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Thousands of years of experience?


he has Solomons wisdom! Shazam as a mentor etc etc....................not to mention I always disliked how they made Superman out to be SO much stronger then a pantheon of gods anyway............kinda lame

Originally posted by soleran30
he has Solomons wisdom! Shazam as a mentor etc etc....................not to mention I always disliked how they made Superman out to be SO much stronger then a pantheon of gods anyway............kinda lame

He has Solomon's wisdom yes, but he doesnt always tap into that and use better judgement. And it appears he doesnt have Shazam as a mentor anymore. Either way, its not like Shazam interfered in Cap's battles.

I think this is a good fight, but id give Marvel the edge 6/10.

Originally posted by jrodslam
He has Solomon's wisdom yes, but he doesnt always tap into that and use better judgement. And it appears he doesnt have Shazam as a mentor anymore. Either way, its not like Shazam interfered in Cap's battles.

I think this is a good fight, but id give Marvel the edge 6/10. Well, if we're going currently, he doesn't have Shazam anymore, but on the flipside, he can't leave his new house, since he has to be there to hold it together.

Originally posted by Juntai
Well, if we're going currently, he doesn't have Shazam anymore, but on the flipside, he can't leave his new house, since he has to be there to hold it together.

I stated that he doesnt have Shazam anymore. Its true that he needs to remain there permanently, but i wonder if he can summon Mary or Jr. to hold it together while he leaves?

I DONT KNOW WHO WOULD WIN BUT THIS WOULD BE A GOOD FIGHT...

If both characters go all out and use their full powerset Supes wins. His speed would be too much for Cap to handle.

Cap is fast but he does not have the speed feats in comics to come close to compare to Superman.

When comparing Superman to others its kinda stupid simply because typically writers find a way to allow him to overcome previous feats with either.........

a. more sun dipping or solar radiation or

b. SM is SO SO angery man he is powerful

Except BA and CM have the same powers and SM wasn't doing jack to overcome BA with speed or power so the same should apply to CM

Originally posted by soleran30


Except BA and CM have the same powers and SM wasn't doing jack to overcome BA with speed or power so the same should apply to CM What are you talking about? When the fight ended with BA Supes was just starting to get rollin when BA turned his back on him when he was gonna punch him.

Sounds to me like BA knew he was in over his head so he stopped fighting cause he knew Supes wouldn't hit him with his back turned.

hmmmm Cap has kept up with the flash before.....sounds like speed feat to me, BA was fighting a Flash making everyone else look like statues and CM has the same speed....

Originally posted by snoopdogg
What are you talking about? When the fight ended with BA Supes was just starting to get rollin when BA turned his back on him when he was gonna punch him.

Sounds to me like BA knew he was in over his head so he stopped fighting cause he knew Supes wouldn't hit him with his back turned.

LOL looked to me like BA was tired of messing around....................BA doesn't fight just to duke it out he typically has a reason/plan. Lol Supers was just getting rollin................yeah ok once again another one of these SM just wasn't at his top level yet.............go to the BA respect thread and take another look there BA isn't going down like a chump and CM and BA have equal powers.

Originally posted by soleran30
LOL looked to me like BA was tired of messing around....................BA doesn't fight just to duke it out he typically has a reason/plan. Lol Supers was just getting rollin................yeah ok once again another one of these SM just wasn't at his top level yet.............go to the BA respect thread and take another look there BA isn't going down like a chump and CM and BA have equal powers. Did I say he was going down like some chump? I don't remember saying that. Let's keep on track here. That fight between Supes and BA does not prove anything anyways. Supes holds back when fighting in the city and I think everyone knows that. BA just don't give a sh!t if anybody dies.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
hmmmm Cap has kept up with the flash before.....sounds like speed feat to me, BA was fighting a Flash making everyone else look like statues and CM has the same speed....

ehem....

Originally posted by Blair Wind
ehem.... Scans?

SM has a difficult time beating Black Adam as he always has a back up plan and I have NEVER seen SM take it BA so that BA couldn't handle it................................CM=BA in powerset...............oh and thanks Blair Wind do you have a scan of that feat Throw it in with BA thread for fun

go to my respect thread.....Ill get the Captain Marvel one later, but if BA can do it CM can do it....

specifically here where it states thats how fast they move, next scan shows BA thunderclapping him and stopping Flash...but go to the Respect thread for all of it....

http://img106.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=13d5c_justice7.jpg

Blair you the man thats a great scan thanks! I love the BA respect thread! Nothing beats BA flying through Spectre's head

Superman's heat vision is more an irritant to Marvel; hurts probably, but only keeps him at bay. His magic lightning hurts Supes - as we saw in Kingdom Come - but it's risky because if he's too close he's changed back to Billy Batson. So energy projection seems a wash. Speed is virtually the same. And now I've had my question answered about outer space - Marvel can survive there. He, and Black Adam, don't require air, food or water.
I can see how Marvel can beat Superman; how does Superman beat Marvel? Haven't figured that out - only if he outsmarts him with the lightning, just like in Kingdom come.

Originally posted by roughrider
Superman's heat vision is more an irritant to Marvel; hurts probably, but only keeps him at bay. His magic lightning hurts Supes - as we saw in Kingdom Come - but it's risky because if he's too close he's changed back to Billy Batson. So energy projection seems a wash. Speed is virtually the same. And now I've had my question answered about outer space - Marvel can survive there. He, and Black Adam, don't require air, food or water.
I can see how Marvel can beat Superman; how does Superman beat Marvel? Haven't figured that out - only if he outsmarts him with the lightning, just like in Kingdom come. Marvel cannot survive in space can he?

Prove it.

Phsyically, I'm sure they're pretty much equal, at least in what we've seen-But I'm just as sure that Captain Marvel is always holding back. He's a kid, a really innocent one at that.

Come to think of it, when he was mind controlled, he picked up the pace quite a bit. It just seems to me that its all about whos more willing to go the distance here.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Marvel cannot survive in space can he?

Prove it.

Captain Marvel can survive in space.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9481/cmspeed0et.th.jpg
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7071/legion31239lq.th.jpg

I seem to remember him having to have to carry a air supply one time. I'll look into that.

I saw a link on Black Adam, saying he does not require air, food or water - and he is the same as Marvel. Trying to find it.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I seem to remember him having to have to carry a air supply one time. I'll look into that.

Its also been said that Supes cant live in Space either. Its been said that he holds his breath.

In Kingdom Come, he has air supply. I dont know if that counts.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Its also been said that Supes cant live in Space either. Its been said that he holds his breath.

In Kingdom Come, he has air supply. I dont know if that counts.

Last I checked, Supes can hold his breath for days at a time. But, of course, having some air around is useful.

Originally posted by Private Pion
Last I checked, Supes can hold his breath for days at a time. But, of course, having some air around is useful. Mongul trained Supes on how to "breath" in space.


Anyways here is a scan showing CM may not be able to survive in space. He was impressed when he found out Supes can fly in space.

Here he needs a air supply while on Venus.

Thats all fine and dandy about who can fly in space writers have selective memory when writing. CM 4 the win still.

In Kingdom Come wasnt he (superman) wearing a helmet also in space?

I still think CM takes it if their both at there max.....

CM wins.

Captain Marvel has the power fo the Gods, Captain Marvel can survive in space, that's not the issue Captain Marvel and Superman are equal in every ability. Capatain Marvel should win more of the majority due to superman weakness to magic.
Captain Marvel wins 7/10

Superman actually fought him in comics, and superman started crushing his throat in one confrontation, why hasnt anyone realized that maybe a determining factor as to who can out muscle the other... uh hum superman uh hum lol

anyone got any scans of them butting heads? shuld help get an idea who's got the win, cause random win calling doesnt hold up a correct answer to me

hey guyz shazam is pratically my fav DC charecter but is wonder woman stronger and faster tahn him beacuse her power says stronger than hercules and swifter tahn hermes it say on wikipedia ,

wot happnd wid the black adam superma fight who won ne scans

and any scans for superman shazam first thunder

Whenever they fight Captain Marvel is usually the one that walks away with the bruises, Supes looks like he can win in the long term.

Bump

Superman is stronger (albeit not by much). Superman is faster (by a lot). Superman has more versatility (Shazams only energy attack is lighnting that he himself has to dodge for it to even be effective). Superman 8/10 imo. Shazam has shown to be able to throw down with Supes on a consistant basis but Superman has won the majority of their fights.

Captain marvel has shown to be Superman's equal in DC. I know his speed hasn't really been shown, but I think the speed of Mercury has to be close to Supe's speed. I pick Captain Marvel. Actually, I really think it's too close but I'll let the fanboy in me choose.

Originally posted by badabing
Captain marvel has shown to be Superman's equal in DC. I know his speed hasn't really been shown, but I think the speed of Mercury has to be close to Supe's speed. I pick Captain Marvel. Actually, I really think it's too close but I'll let the fanboy in me choose.

What exactly is the speed of Mercury?

Originally posted by batdude123
What exactly is the speed of Mercury?
I have no clue how fast it is. But Mercury was the messenger of the Greek gods. I checked and couldn't find any references to CM's speed. I'm guessing at least = to Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by batdude123
What exactly is the speed of Mercury?

Captain Marvel gets his speed from the god Mercury

Originally posted by badabing
I have no clue how fast it is. But Mercury was the messenger of the Greek gods. I checked and couldn't find any references to CM's speed. I'm guessing at least = to Wonder Woman.

I checked and it said that Herme's speed is just under the speed of light. And if that's the case, then Superman is WAY faster than CM.

Originally posted by batdude123
I checked and it said that Herme's speed is just under the speed of light. And if that's the case, then Superman is WAY faster than CM.

I don't know about that. Near the speed of light sounds accurate for both of them. Superman hasn't proven he can overpower Cap through strength, either. The reasons Marvel can win are more obvious - mystic energy through lightning and his punches, bypassing Supes personal energy field. The reasons Superman can win are less obvious. You have make some arguement about experience, or outhinking Billy somehow.

Originally posted by roughrider
I don't know about that. Near the speed of light sounds accurate for both of them. Superman hasn't proven he can overpower Cap through strength, either. The reasons Marvel can win are more obvious - mystic energy through lightning and his punches, bypassing Supes personal energy field. The reasons Superman can win are less obvious. You have make some arguement about experience, or outhinking Billy somehow.

Actually Superman can go faster than the speed of light, and has proved to be able to quite a bit.

Superman was once able to go faster than C. I don't know if that's the case anymore. Does anybody have an answer?

I'd say superman would win, CM's powers are magic BASED, not magic, I remember there being a justice league where they met and Superman wiped the floor with CM's face. Superman has gone faster than the speed of light and split moons by going through them, he is superior.

God we have so many Superman haters in KM...... If you want to see overpowered look at silver surfer!

superman<

hasn't superman beaten CM everytime they fight FAIRLY... there have been occassions when it was all over the place and unfair.

"I checked and it said that Herme's speed is just under the speed of light. And if that's the case, then Superman is WAY faster than CM."


What is the reference?



- - -


"I have no clue how fast it is. But Mercury was the messenger of the Greek gods. I checked and couldn't find any references to CM's speed. I'm guessing at least = to Wonder Woman. "


The topic about WW/The messanger God/CM is always an interesting one.

We all know that she is "by supossition" faster than the God of speed.

However, post crisis WW never outraced Mercury. Mantra aside, i have found no evidence in the comics of her ever doing so.

Mercury OTOH -did- outraced Flash during the "War of Gods" storyline and Hermes (his greek counterpart) seemed to match him evenly iirc.

To answer: in my view they are both below Hermes/Mercury and even in that position.


- - -


"hasn't superman beaten CM everytime they fight FAIRLY... there have been occassions when it was all over the place and unfair."


Nope.

Wich is the reason this one is a neverending debate.

Olympian, you seem to know a lot about the thread topic. It's my belief that Superman & Captain Marvel are pretty much equal physically, just with some different powers. What's your opinion?

That one. They both bring different things to the table, powerwise.

Physically they are always treathed and showed virtually as equals. One can win against the other.

They are kind of the Thor and Hercules of DC where strenght comparation is concerned.

Thanks for the info.

No problem.

there's a very convoluted history between supes and cm. cm books (published by fawcett) actually outsold superman books for years. when cm was first brought into the dc fold, (after dc sued fawcett, because they thought cm was too much like superman) both were enormously popular characters and so as not to displease fans of either, they were consistently shown to be equals. most of their early battles were actually parodies of the real life legal battles the 2 were having. given their history, i can't see anytime where a definitive winner would be shown between them. oly's right, it is a never-ending debate.

Originally posted by xtrubeastxcs
God we have so many Superman haters in KM...... If you want to see overpowered look at silver surfer!

Surfer is a B class character and doesn't need to support four comics a month (minimum) .... Superman does seam a little too powerful to fill that many stories and still find "villains" challenging without making the story completely ridiculous

Which is why i like people like Spider-Man and Daredevil.... at least you know that they aren't invulnerable and don't need to come up with stupidly powerful "villains" in order to make a battle a close match

Actually the Superman comics are starting to get good again. And he don't even have his powers anymore! It's ironic.

I dont see why Supes being in 4 comics a month a problem. Hes the greatest superhero of all-time. Then again you have Wolverine in 12 titles,so....

Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont see why Supes being in 4 comics a month a problem. Hes the greatest superhero of all-time. Then again you have Wolverine in 12 titles,so.... He's actually only in two continuum titles of his own now, it's only 4 if you include ASS and Batman/Superman.

Originally posted by Juntai
He's actually only in two continuum titles of his own now, it's only 4 if you include ASS and Batman/Superman. Actually Superman/Batman is in continuity also. That's basically where Lex made first reference to the "crisis".

Originally posted by Juntai
He's actually only in two continuum titles of his own now, it's only 4 if you include ASS and Batman/Superman.

I was just trying to make a point in response to scoobles post, Jun.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont see why Supes being in 4 comics a month a problem. Hes the greatest superhero of all-time. Then again you have Wolverine in 12 titles,so....

The number of titles he's in isn't a problem.... but how many issues of each title a year does he come up against someone who actually presents him with a real physical challenge?

Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont see why Supes being in 4 comics a month a problem. Hes the greatest superhero of all-time. Then again you have Wolverine in 12 titles,so....
What about spider-man..............

Originally posted by thesilverspider
What about spider-man.............. You beat me too it.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
You beat me too it.
And I actually get all of them even spider-man loves mary jane......

Spider-Man is overpowered.

Originally posted by Validus
Spider-Man is overpowered.
Bah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This coming from a supergirl fan..............

Originally posted by thesilverspider
And I actually get all of them even spider-man loves mary jane...... Are you talkin about the girl or gettin high?

Originally posted by thesilverspider
Bah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This coming from a supergirl fan..............
Yeah but so far Supergirl's rogue gallery includes the Teen Titans, the JSA, and all the JLA powerhouses such as Flash, Superman, and Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Are you talkin about the girl or gettin high?
sadly the girl...........

Originally posted by Validus
Yeah but so far Supergirl's rogue gallery includes the Teen Titans, the JSA, and all the JLA powerhouses such as Flash, Superman, and Wonder Woman.
now that's overpowered.........

Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont see why Supes being in 4 comics a month a problem. Hes the greatest superhero of all-time. Then again you have Wolverine in 12 titles,so....

He's the first superhero, and most recognized. Doesn't make him the greatest.
Whenever i asked why he's the greatest, people always say because he's the ideal superhero.
I protest that belief with the birth of Marvel comics. Marvel brought out heroes with feet of clay and for years they outsold DC. So clearly, Superman is not the "ideal" superhero, if others were found to suit peoples tastes.
An ideal is something that varies from person to person. There is no true general ideal. So no true ideal Superhero.
A warriors ideal is not a pacifists ideal. Neither is a superhero .

Originally posted by UniOmni
He's the first superhero, and most recognized. Doesn't make him the greatest.
Whenever i asked why he's the greatest, people always say because he's the ideal superhero.
I protest that belief with the birth of Marvel comics. Marvel brought out heroes with feet of clay and for years they outsold DC. So clearly, Superman is not the "ideal" superhero, if others were found to suit peoples tastes.
An ideal is something that varies from person to person. There is no true general ideal. So no true ideal Superhero.
A warriors ideal is not a pacifists ideal. Neither is a superhero . Superman is the greatest because he is. If you've read a good portion of his comics, no one would have to explain it for you. He's probably the most selfless of all the heros, and he doesn't let anyone die.

I gotta disagree. See, what you see as selfless, i see as blank and easy on DC's end. And alot of his comics include thought bubbles of exactly what you just posted. Too much hero worship imo. And no, imo he isn't the greatest superhero.

Imo, the greatest is either Batman or Captain America or Spiderman.
Batman because he isn't a very pleasant person at heart, and yet strives to go to war on a world that should be his ally.

Spiderman simply for the fact that he's a guy who has the worst luck, yet still suits up and fights for a city whose main newspaper castrates him daily. He truly knows the meaning of fighting the good fight.
Superman to me, is simply the first superhero. If he's the best to you, more power to ya. But not to my tastes.

When was the last time Spiderman flew up into the air and held the moon in place from destroying Earth as a whole?

Spiderman runs around picking on humans.

Superman does the 'perfect' act, and does it saving everyone, all the time.

im not trying to convince you and change what you think, I'm just giving you a perspective of the people who see that.

Superman has the abilities to do that. Big difference Jun. But i thank you for not telling me my tastes are wrong. And i can see why he might be regarded as the best. They just happen to be what makes me find him boring.

It's hard to believe that CM is more of a Boyscout than Supes.

It's like this CM holds back all the time especially when he's fighting SM but if they both were going all out it would be like SM vs Doomsday SM will use up all his energy and it would be over. And every one keeps saying CM wins because of Supes Magic weakness uh nah if this was the case Wonderwoman would beat Supes too CM is the most powerful period

CM is getting a push in DC now. So maybe we'll have more of his feats in the near future. I wish Marvel had him.

DC does not want to do CM right because he would be more powerful than their baby SM and I like SM but it is true he is their baby so they will not let CM do SM like he really could in an all out brawl neither holding back.

im going with cap marvel on this because he has strength of herc right pluse its magic so if he hit superman it would hurt and do twice as much damage

captain marvel has always been a little less than superman and always will be becaues thats how they started out... see why he never will because it never started out that way guys... stop with the supes bashing

Actually, Marvel was able to fly before Supes. It's debatable who is the more powerful of the two. On more than one occasion, DC has stated the Marvel is Superman's equal. Marvel has always handled himself well against Superman. I say this battle is even or maybe 5.5/10 for Superman.

Originally posted by badabing
Actually, Marvel was able to fly before Supes. It's debatable who is the more powerful of the two. On more than one occasion, DC has stated the Marvel is Superman's equal. Marvel has always handled himself well against Superman. I say this battle is even or maybe 5.5/10 for Superman.

I agree.

I say Captain Marvel 9/10.

Originally posted by Validus
I say Captain Marvel 9/10.

CM's magical punches are more effective than anything Superman can do to him disregarding T-Vo silliness. I don't see how Billy can logically lose this.

Originally posted by Validus
CM's magical punches are more effective than anything Superman can do to him disregarding T-Vo silliness. I don't see how Billy can logically lose this.

Other than that suckerpunch CM gave to Superman after having Power Girl's tongue down his throat, CM never really has beaten Supes in a fight. Imo, it would be a draw (they have been said on MANY different occasions to be equals) or Superman might get 5.5/10.

Originally posted by batdude123
Other than that suckerpunch CM gave to Superman after having Power Girl's tongue down his throat, CM never really has beaten Supes in a fight. Imo, it would be a draw (they have been said on MANY different occasions to be equals) or Superman might get 5.5/10.
And in Crisis Times Five.

They're equal except Marvel simply has a clear advantage over Superman. Superman has nothing on Marvel.