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Earth is deserted. Only Magnus and Black Bolt stand alone in a fight to the death. Who's wins this fight?

See that little silver thing on top of BB's head? That channels ALL of his electron power. Know why it's silver? Because it's made of metal...

heh i see it! but all he'd have to do is cough and maggy is dead.
hard to react faster than someone can say a word.

Interesting thing about BB's scream - as I understand it, it's not actually sound. Rather it's some kind of electron-based energy. If this theory is true, then not only would it not kill Magneto, it's entirely possible that it'll make Magneto MORE powerful, similar to the effect Storm's lightning or Iceman's cold have on him.

demigawd is right, his scream is what happens when electrons he produces interact with other particles to produce a huge blast. I'm thinking the chances are pretty good Magneto won't even blink at that. And all BB's other powers are purely electron based, so he's screwed.

BLACK BOLT gearing up for the fight:
*quietly clears throat*

Magneto: you ready punk?*spits*

BB: R-I-C-O-L-A!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Manjaro makes me laugh, hahaha.

-AC

You guys have way too much imagination. Stop pulling out new powers out of your asses for Magneto. Now, all of a sudden, he can absorb BB's sound attacks ?!

BB is a true powerhouse, Magneto is a modest powerhouse. All the talk about electrons is just speculation, nothing more. BB wins very easily.

Demi is clearly a very learned comic fan. However I think over analysing and over thinking can, as said, give people who don't have a chance, a chance.

I put Thanos over Blackbolt coz he's an immortal and cannot be killed.

I don't see how Magneto will win when it takes mere second for Blackbolt to shout. Just MO.

-AC

So... does anybody know if Black Bolt's powers have been explored further in the last 20 or 30 years?

lol, I'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass, people. I used to theorize that Magneto could create a blackhole because of the nature of his magnetic power, but I never used it in a theoretical fight because he never showed that ability in the comics. Well, now he has shown that ability (but not in combat, so I still won't use that in a theoretical fight). So THAT would have been an example of me speculating and giving Magneto more power than he's shown. But in the case of electron control, he's shown that ability many times - in fact, that's actually how his shield works, as explained in his one shot back in '92. It REMOVES electrons from objects to create a charge, then mimicks the charge to repel the object. I mean, c'mon people, if THAT'S not electron control, I don't know what is. I defy anyone to say otherwise.

Now that I have confirmation as to what Black Bolt's scream really is, it will *literally* have no effect on Magneto, except allow Magneto to fortify his own power.

And if you hate me now, wait until Excalibur #10, when Magneto starts harnessing reality-warping powers. They've already hinted at a relationship between (I quote) "magnetism, one of the four fundamental forces of creation and causality", which Wanda has BECAUSE she's the daughter of a representative of one of the four forces". Magneto theorized that he can HARNESS causality itself through his own power, turning him into, essentially, a Super Wanda.

I'm gonna have so much fun with that....

His last sentence sums it up.

If the writers of MOST comics came on this boards I'm sure we'd learn a thing or too but mainly they'd probably say "What the hell are you talking about?"

Demi, I acknowledge Magneto's power and I'm a science geek myself, love it. However comicdom isn't the best place to delve into electrons and shit. Kinda saps the fun out of the whole fantasy forum aspect.

-AC

Why are all the X-Men characters becoming representations of things? Jean literally being Phoenix. Magneto being the representation of the magnetic force. Forge being the representation of the excuse to have uber advanced technology. What's next, Beast becoming the representation of the animal kingdom and turning into a lionman?

The cause is unknown, yes. And what you're referring to when you quoted me is the "cause" of these effects. But what IS known is the effect. I'll quote myself here as well:



So the effect is pretty well-defined - it creates a shockwave that comes from the disturbance of the particle/electron interaction field. Because Magneto has a broader range of electron control, he would simply prevent that disturbance from taking place, or re-direct the shockwave entirely.

Again, it would be fairly trouble-free for Magneto.

One other thing - you cant just blanket assume that writers don't care about gravity and electrons and magnetism. Some care a great deal. Warren Ellis would likely write a battle between the two of them almost exactly the way I've scripted it. Claremont writes Magneto with a VERY scientific bend. Chuck Austen...not so much. It depends entirely. And since this is a battle board, *I* am the writer (as are you in your scenario), *I* am one of those writers who do care about gravity and electrons and magnetism. And by staying true to the science of their powers, Black Bolt can do nothing against Magneto that wouldn't make Magneto more powerful.

"Why are all the X-Men characters becoming representations of things?"

I noticed that too. Don't know why everyone is penetrating the X-Men all of a sudden.

"Claremont writes Magneto with a VERY scientific bend. Chuck Austen...not so much. It depends entirely. And since this is a battle board, *I* am the writer (as are you in your scenario), *I* am one of those writers who do care about gravity and electrons and magnetism."

With all due respect Claremont and Austen are god awful writers. Absolutely ego driven, self-absorbed idiots.

I just fantasy battles on comparing the powers of the combatants and decide for myself who would have the better shot. Sometimes it requires detail but I just think it's a bit pointless the level of which you go into things. The writers never go into it as much as you do so I, personally, don't see the point.

Magneto has one of the most obvious stupid faults in comic history and no one has seemed to notice it. Yet something as in-obvious as the details you go into, are worth mentioning.

Nothing necessarily wrong with your methods, just think it's a bit much for fantasy battles IMO.

-AC

THANK YOU GOD! Someone finally had the balls to say it. Claremont should retire before his dementia becomes contagious and Austen should write for daytime soap operas NOT comics.

Well, Claremont WAS really good back in the days, but he's losing it lol.

Lost it I think is more appropriate.

Bringing Psylocke back was the best thing he's done but as a character she was more alive when she wasn't even alive. Brings back one of, if not THE best X-Man/Woman, puts her in the wrong X-Men comic (when there should be ONE anyway) and then makes her dull and boring.

Is lame.

-AC

You mean turning annoying omnipotent?

She only has her TK. I liked her WAY better when she had her psyknives. But Claramont f***ed her up. And killed her. Then brought her back. Then f***ed her up again.

I hope Joss Whedon will take our poor Betsy under his literary genius wing of his.

"You mean turning annoying omnipotent?"

No, I mean having a super duper helmet that renders him immune to mind powers, despite having a gaping face hole in the front of it.

-AC

In my court he's guilty on both counts. I always wondered about that. Like if Jean pressed her forehead into his or held her head in the mouth hole of Juggernaut's helmet.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with writing stories with a more scientific bend. That they're awful writers is YOUR opinion, somehow using that to refute what I wrote is bad form.

I agree on Austen, however.

I'm lukewarm on Claremont's Uncanny, but I really like his Excalibur.



I'm disappointed to hear that statement, especially from you. You're one of the smarter guys on this board - the idea that you'd prefer the usual, "HULK GETS MADDER AND MADDER UNTIL HE GETS SO MAD HE PWNZ EVERYONE" and "DOOM CAN BUILD AN ANTI-MUTANT DEVICE THAT PWNZ ALL X-MEN" logic to "BB generates electron-based energy which someone who controls EM energy can subvert" saddens me.

The idea that people have resorted to, "Well, you use too much science" when they've given up on using actual debating tactics that combine multiple facets of both comic book and real world ideas is equally saddening. How can I be criticized because I don't just say, "Well, hmm, this guy is REALLLY strong and this guy is SUPER strong", like 95% of the posts on here? Be honest. Is that really all you want? Really?

Also, I'm one of the few posters who actually cite examples from the actual material to prove my point, so it's not like I'm pulling physics into it out of nowhere.



Patently false. I'll name two examples right now. Storm hit Magneto with lightning, he said, "Lightning is an aspect of EM energy, which I embody". It subsequently made him stronger. In another issue, Magneto was also hit with extreme cold (also by Storm). He said, "The cold simply makes me a living superconductor" and again, it made him more powerful. These are just two examples of comic book science in action - should these writers be criticized for that? So when cite a fight where BB screams at Magneto, and Magneto says, "Your electron energy is an aspect of charged EM energy that I can control" and then redirects it at BB, how is that ANY different from EITHER of those two examples I cited from the comic itself? Short, sweet, science-based. Are you sure you wanna say the writers NEVER go into it as much as I do?



Irrelevant. I've never once used his helmet's immunity to telepathy in any fight. In fact, I've never recognized that immunity factor, because it never existed until the X-men movie. After the movie, Grant Morrison decided to pull that concept into the comic.



Again, I ask, do you REALLY prefer the "MAGNETO GET MAD, THROW METAL, PWNZ ALL" posts?

ok - Magneto takes BB's metal antenna off and stabs him with it. Nice and simple.

Blackbolt:*whispers to magneto from 300 yards away* sswshws shwshs shhwiisw

Magneto:*shouting* im sorry could you speak up?

blackbolt: THE RAIN, IN SPAIN, IS ALWAYS THE SAME!!!!!

Broad range? He's the "Master Of Magnetism," not Moleculeman. You seem to think he can affect almost anything including interactions between electron. Prevent my butt. Black Bolt is a matter manipulator as well. His scream would kill Magneto. BB > Magneto in power.

What's Magneto ever done? BB's scream overloaded Doom with a Watcher's power. His mere whisper to Hulk and Gladiator's ears have K.O.ed them.



...the only trouble being Erik will be six feet under that's all.



More powerful? Right because Doom with Watcher's powers absorbed Black Bolt's powers and was overloaded and thus defeated. And yet you somehow think Magneto will only be more powerful? He'll be dead. If a cosmically powered Doom couldn't contain BB's scream, Magneto's be bleeding out of the pores of his skin.

Which does absolutely nothing but probably unleashes his powers. Magneto dies even more so if he tried some sh!t like that.

"Irrelevant. I've never once used his helmet's immunity to telepathy in any fight. In fact, I've never recognized that immunity factor, because it never existed until the X-men movie. After the movie, Grant Morrison decided to pull that concept into the comic. "

Was commenting on the character in general. Not this fight.

"Again, I ask, do you REALLY prefer the "MAGNETO GET MAD, THROW METAL, PWNZ ALL" posts?

ok - Magneto takes BB's metal antenna off and stabs him with it. Nice and simple. "

Obviously missed where I said I have nothing against your posts.

-AC

Magneto CAN affect interactions between electrons. I've said this before and I'll keep saying it until it's clear - THAT IS HOW HIS SHIELD WORKS. HE EXPLAINED IT HIMSELF. So, to recap - Magneto can affect interactions between electrons, which are (defined by Webster):


an elementary particle consisting of a charge of negative electricity equal to about 1.602 x 10-19 coulomb and having a mass when at rest of about 9.109534 x 10-28 gram or about 1/1836 that of a proton


Hmm? Wha? Huh? Did somebody say...CHARGE? Well, how fortunate, because THAT'S WHAT MAGNETO DOES BEST.

His scream wouldn't kill Magneto - it would make him more powerful, and when Magneto is done getting more powerful, he'll just redirect the rest right at BlackBolt. And I don't think Black can take the hit as well as Magneto can....



Congratulations. I don't suppose Doom tried to redirect that power, hmm? Well, that must be why he lost, isn't it?

Magneto beat Phoenix, by the way.

Phoenix > Watcher
Magneto > BlackBolt



Man, they should have seen that coming and harnessed his electron energy. Why didn't they...oh way, I know why! They can't!!! And that's why they lost. It has nothing to do with what would happen with Magneto.



You're missing the point - everyone on this board bases all of their arguments on power levels, like Marvel and DC are like DBZ. "This person is more powerful than that person, therefore this person would win in a fight". It's nonsense. Power level is just one element in what makes a fight. Is Magneto more powerful than a Watcher? Of course not - but citing that as evidence of anything is meaningless. It's not the level of Magneto's power, it's the nature of it that makes this a mismatch in favor of Magneto.

Blackbolt releases charged energy. Magneto controls charged energy. Nothing else beyond that matters.

Not if BB is dead first.

Stop being a fanboy, it would make him dead.



He wanted the power, that was the point. He took the scream and absorbed the power but it overloaded him.

And you think Magneto can redirect Black Bolt's scream? He's not even going to have time, it'll hit him before he can react unless you think Magneto can react faster than the speed of BB scream. It's not sound but it moves as fast or faster than sound. Magnus isn't even fast enough to react much less try to affect BB's scream.

Magneto beat Phoenix, by the way. He harnessed the Earth's power to do so and turned her powers against her. It wasn't like he did it under his own might. And why are we using Ultimates in addition to mainstream. Both are different. They may be the same character but their still different versions.

Phoenix > Watcher - prove that please. A rogue Watcher once imprisoned an entire galaxy.

Magneto > BlackBolt - Right, stop being so dillusional about this. Black Bolt is above Magneto in power.



Nature my butt. BB controls electrons and manipulates matters as well.



BB controls electrons and can release them. You don't know much about BB do you?

Right. BB is class 50 at least. In his fight with Namor, a slug from BB sent Namor flying and crashing through a damn. His durability is above that of Magneto's, if you think a tunning fork to the head is going to kill him, you're dead wrong.

His scream would wipe out everything including Magneto.

Fanboyism has nothing to do with this - you could use your keyboard to type more productive things than labelling people as fanboys because they don't agree with you- starting with a sound refutation of my argument, if you can. Let me demonstrate:



ok...poor Doom. That's neither here nor there.



1) OF COURSE Magneto can direct BB's scream - it's electron energy. it's what makes metal manipulatable in the first place. Throwing electron energy at Magneto for all intents and purposes is equivalent to throwing big chunks of metal at him. The governing principles are IDENTICAL. And unless you're able to refute that core fact, any other factor in their fight is meaningless.

2) Magneto would go into the fight with his shields up. Big deal. I bet Magneto can impale BB with his own antenna faster than BB can think to open his mouth.



See, it's that incorrect way of thinking again. You only seem to see things in terms of power levels. I'm going to break this board out of that habit if it's the last thing I do. The fact that he harnessed the Earth's power to do her powers against her was DONE with his own might. Marvel characters don't sit there blasting each other and the person with the higher blast level wins. It's about guile, it's about cunning, it's about resourcefulness, it's about control. Magneto beat Phoenix by using those factors. He'd do no less against Black Bolt.



??? I'm not talking about the Ultimate version of anything. I'm talking about MU Magneto when he took the X-men under a volcano and beat them senseless. Phoenix lashed out, Magneto responded by drawing on the EM energy of the earth, creating a bottleneck that sucked the energy right out of her.




Phoenix destroyed a galaxy.



And with all your ample evidence, how could I say otherwise?



Since when? Name some matter manipulation feats. BB's power description limits him to electron control. He can do a few things beyond that (like create gravitational fields), but the guide describes them all as being weak. Magneto has a much broader range of control that goes beyond electron control to the entire EM spectrum of energy.



Sounds like what I said. He releases them at Magneto, Magneto does whatever the hell he wants with them, because they're his playthings.



Would you like to educate me? Do so...

WOW...a REAL POWERHOUSE. What was I thinking? How can Magneto hope to match a Class 50 superbeing like THAT?



He punched Namor and sent him flying? My god...that puts him at least at the level of....Wolverine.



Well, with Class 50 might like that, I just don't see how Magneto could...oh...wait...that's right...Magneto can increase his strength to CLASS 100. And can exert magnetic force at an even greater level. He lifted a 30,000 TON battleship and sent it flying effortlessly. What's BB's almighty Class 50 durability got to say about THAT? Magneto impales BB with his own tuning fork the way I can hammer a nail through balsa wood...



As you so aptly proved by mentioning he has Class 50 strength.

Which does nothing cause Black Bolt's attack is omnidirectional. Redirecting it does nothing to BB. Furthermore, Magnus' power is below BB's so how is he redirect a force greater that his own might? His isn't going to. BB's attack can level an entire city and you think Maggie can just react fast enough and overcome BB's scream?



Big deal, didn't Juggernaut once punched Magneto so hard that a back feed put Magneto out cold? So much for mouthing off at Juggernaut. And even Juggernaut's punches can't match BB's scream. BB's mere whisper to the ear can KO guys like Hulk and Gladiator, which Cain's best punch can only hope to stagger. Magneto's shield is going down when BB gives him the scream.



Yeah but this is a forum fight not a comic book fight. Both enter to fight, not to talk and give time for Maggie to pull out tricks. Forum arena fights are set up to pitt one against the other, both are just gonna talk. BB unleashes his scream and Magneto will be wrecked.



You sound as if Phoenix was going to kill him outright. Magneto did an underhand trick to save his ass. Otherwise, Phoenix could've obliterated him with ease. Furthermore, this was a weaker version of Phoenix was it not. Not all Phoenix version are the same, some more powerful and experienced than others.



When? Issues please. And which version. There's Jean and there's Racheal. There's also Phoenix and Dark Phoenix. Don't rant on like all versions of her are the same - there not.



That's his power. Stop using just the Marvel Bios, those aren't all accurate. Thing once wanted a robe, and BB matter manipulated it for him and a comfortable one at that. It's been awhile, but BB also contained a black hole with his powers.



Right. If Maggie was so powerful, you'd think he himself could've ended the AOA by himself. Yet he lost half his powers taking down Apocalypse's Celestial ship, so much for being able to manipulate electrons with ease and doing whatever he wants with it. Heck, didn't he get a tasted of Apocalypse's power during AOA when he visited Xavier's tomb? If he could manipulate electrons and such, why didn't he detect and redirect Apocalypse's attack?



I've been trying to, yet you seem to be a fanboy of Magneto so I don't think I can.

When did Wolverine send Namor flying through the air and through a damn with one shot?



What are you laughing at? Class 50 is his base strength. He uses his powers to augment it to Class 100. Otherwise you think he could slug it out with Thing who's Class 85?

I opened this thread think it was ridiculous to believe that Magneto even had a chance in hell against BB but demigawd did a hell of a job proving his point. Every thing he said makes perfect sense and shame on those who doubt him!

Are you saying BB is immune to his own power? That may be, and if that's the case, then re-directing won't hurt BB...but either way, it still won't hurt Magneto, and Magneto, being the multi-tasking, multi-talented person he is, can do lots of other things while blocking/redirecting/absorbing/laughing at BB's attack. Bloodwork, nervous system work, hitting him upside the head with chunks of metal, sinking BB's antenna into his brain, etc.



What are you basing this conclusion on? Magneto has created an EMP blast that blacked out the entire planet. He affected the environment to eliminate long range telepathy worldwide. He's stated that if he doesn't excercise total control over his power, he can threaten the world every time he uses his power. He can create blackholes and wormholes. He created an explosion 1KM in circumference with the force of a thermonuclear explosion. You can't say that Mag's power is below BB's, you have no proof of that. He's created manipulated energy types across the EM spectrum. When I see BB use his electron power to lift a 30,000 ton tanker, then we'll talk.



One has nothing to do with the other. Having enough power to level a city has nothing to do with how fast the attack comes out. You can say that BB can scream faster than Magneto can react. I can say that Magneto can sink BB's antenna into his brain faster than BB can react. But, unlike you, I can also say that Magneto would go into this fight with his shields up. I can also say that Magneto (and this has officially become a recurring theme) - CONTROLS CHARGED ENERGY. BB can GENERATE charged energy, but unless you cite a situation in which he's been able to *contain* his own blast, then he can't control the energy once it's been released.



What?!? No! Where did you get that?



It would...if not for the fact that MAGNETO CONTROLS CHARGED ENERGY.



I'd agree if not for the fact that MAGNETO CONTROLS CHARGED ENERGY.



It's the same Phoenix entity. More experienced after time, yes, but he still beat her down. And it wasn't an underhanded trick. What's so underhanded about drawing on the forces of the planet and using its energy to create a bottleneck to suck the life out of her? That's his power....what's what he does.


More reply coming later. Gotta go.

You mean the same scream that Apocalypse laughed off?



I'm not sure what this has to do with my statement that a character's skill and use of power if often more important than simply measuring power levels. They don't have to sit there and have tea and crumpets for Magneto to be resourceful enough to beat BlackBolt. In fact, he doesn't have to be particularly resourceful at all to beat BlackBolt because (say it with me now)

MAGNETO CONTROLS CHARGED ENERGY.



Dark Phoenix during the Dark Phoenix saga. That would be Jean. And Dark Phoenix and Phoenix are the same - one is just evil while the other is not. They have the same power levels. Could Phoenix have destroyed Magneto the way she destroyed a galaxy? Sure...but a fat lot of good that would have done. That's why I say it's more skill and cunning and just about overpowering your opponent. Magneto is so formidable not because he has star-smashing power, but because he's a master scientist and understands every facet of his power. BB's the LA Lakers. Magneto's the Detroit Pistons. Work ethic beats flash and star power any day.



*shrug* That puts Blackbolt on the same level as Havok, who contained a black hole with HIS powers. Did BB do it with his scream, or did he do it some other way? If it's with his scream, that still doesn't prove anything. Besides, Magneto can create black holes. It seems to me that Magneto exercises a far greater breadth of control, given the diversity of feats I named compared to BB screaming into a Black hole. I will say that the robe thing is impressive. Has he done any matter manipulation in combat? Was there an explanation as to how he did it? There's no mention of any such ability anywhere else on any bios that I'm looking up now.



He didn't lose half his powers taking down Poccy's ship. He lost half his powers giving it to Rogue to save her life. And I believe that was *before* the ship debacle. Additionally, that was a Magneto who was never given his two power ups (Erik the Red and Fatal Attractions). So you're talking about a Magneto who is about 1/5 the power of the MU Magneto. So a Magneto THAT WEAK was able to take down Poccy's celestial ship. That's not a liability, that's a feat.



1/5 the Magneto who, I might add, ended up ripping up Apocalypse in two two issues later. The same Apocalypse who, if I may be so bold, laughed off BB's scream.

Hmmm.





I'd like to know more about these matter manipulation powers of his.



He didn't in one shot, but he owned him up better than Blackbolt did!



Class 1 is his base strength. And he uses his powers to augment it to Class 50. According to his bios. You can say his bios are wrong, and I may believe you, but you'll have to tell me how you calculated that he's Class 50 base and Class 100 augmented, aside from just the fact that he slugged it out with Thing. Wolverine slugs it out with Thing too...

In conclusion:

Magneto > Phoenix > Apocalypse > Black Bolt > Watcher Doom

Demi knows his shit, no doubt about that.

Just puzzles me that Magneto can easily beat Hulk, Thanos, Blackbolt and Gladiator yet Ice-Man is a match for him.

-AC

Nah, it's more like:

Phoenix > Watcher Doom > Magneto > Apocalypse > Black Bolt.

And I was kidding in the vs. Thanos thread. It was because, I think, YOU who started that thread, so I knew it was to see how I'd answer.

haha, it's because of what I've been trying to say from the beginning (and please disregard that Thanos comment, I was kidding):

It's less about the level of power and more about the nature of power. Hulk, Black Bolt, Graviton, ionic characters like Nefaria, and the like have very specific weaknesses to the things Magneto can do. It doesn't mean Magneto is more powerful than they are - in fact, he often isn't. It means that Magneto is able to use his power to exploit their weaknesses.

For example - is Hulk more powerful than Havok? ABSOLUTELY! But can Hulk BEAT Havok in a fight? No! Because when they fought, Havok was able to absorb Hulk's gamma energy and turn him back into Banner. It's the nature of the matchup that you have to consider, not the level of power. That's something I always consider in these fights. Frankly, all of you would do well to do the same. It might make some of these responses on the board more interesting.

You also stated in the Gladiator Vs. Magneto thread that Magneto can screw with Thanos' blood cause Thanos can bleed. I don't see why he can't open up a blackhole and throw Thanos into it like you've so claimed Magnus can do to Gladiator.

So far, in Gladiator Vs. Magneto - one of Erik's option was openning up a blackhole or wormhole and throwing Kallark into it according to you.

In Thanos Vs. Magneto - your first post claimed the same thing about blackholes as an option. Your second post after that was the sarcasm one. The first one wasn't.

Now in Black Bolt Vs. Magneto - You again claimed Magneto can open black holes. Then you also added that Magneto has "star smashing powers".

IMO, you really believe Magneto is the embodiment of energy or something.

Maybe I completely lost my mind, but when exactly did I say that Magneto has "star smashing powers"? If you could post that quote, it would help me figure out if I need therapy...

As for the blackhole option, it's still fairly new, since he only recently showed the ability to create wormholes. I'm just saying...it's now part of his powers. I haven't heavily debated that point since it's only recently been explored, and I won't heavily debate it now.

And yes, he can screw with Thano's blood, and I'm sure it'll cause Thanos a great deal of pain. But because of the NATURE of Thanos' power, he could override and reverse what Magneto is doing to him. Because of the NATURE of BB or Hulk's or Gladiator's powers, they can't.

It's all about the nature of the power, not the level. That's what I've been saying from the beginning.

And if you hate where I put Magneto in the hierarchy now, wait until he begins harnessing reality-manipulating powers next issue of Excalibur...

tsk tsk tsk. If you read more closely, you'd see that I actually wrote:



Look up, check it again. See?

What are you talking about? It says he's not so formidible because he has star smashing powers but because he's a master scientist and understands every facet of his power.

I interpreted as although he has star smashing powers, that's not what makes him formidible - it's the fact that he's a master scientist and understands every facet of his power.

I guess you meant it a different way. Then again you also claim he can create blackholes. It's not hard for me interpret what you wrote the way I did; since if he can create blackholes, why can he not destroy a star? Cause for a blackhole to exist, does a star not have to die before a blackhole or white dwarf to be created?

Otherwise, how does Magneto create a blackhole?

I think what Demi is saying is, although he has black hole creation it isn't what makes him formidable.

The fact that he understands every part of his power and how to use it, is.

-AC

Yup. And how would he create blackholes without destroying a star?

I might have misinterpreted his earlier statement; however, it still stands that if he could create black holes, why can't he destroy a star? A star has to die for a black hole to be created.

wtf. You just changed my quote! I didn't say, "he's not so formidable because he has star smashing powers, but because....". I said, "he's formidable not because he has star smashing powers, but because....". Given that I then proceeded to talk at length about how I put emphasis on cunning and control and nature over level of power, then lambasted everyone who just compares power levels, I don't see how you could have interpreted that the way you did. You would had to have ignored the entire context of my message.



I did. But I'm glad that we're clear now.



You're confusing cause and effect.

Cause: Star dies
Effect: Black hole.

That's not the same as:

Cause: Black hole
Effect: Star dies.

A star dying leaves a black hole in its wake. That doesn't mean that the ability create a black hole is the ability to destroy stars. A black hole is created by warping either gravitic or magnetic fields so much that the mass generated by it collapses on itself, exponentially increasing in density, and causing a gravity pull so great that the escape velocity is faster than light. The most common cause of a black hole is the collapse of a star, but that's just a cause. It's not the exclusive reason why a black hole would form.*

*Note: In real world science, it's been the only observed reason why a black hole formed, but that's just because there's no other natural reason for it to occur. Scientists are currently experimenting with artificially generating one (without destroying the solar system).

wow my mind is blowing with all this scientific black hole bullshit.

A black hole sucks entire star system so if he can (which i dobt) they all die.

Nothing to doubt. Magneto created a wormhole in Excalibur #8. A wormhole, for the uninitiated, is a black hole with an exit (commonly referred to as a "white hole".

Another thing you have to consider is, a black hole can only suck in things that reach its event horizon. So just creating a black hole won't suck in a star system - it would have to have a large enough event horizon to suck things in. Think of it as inescapable quick sand. As long as you don't step in it, you're safe.

i havnt read this thread, but i'm pretty sure blackbolt would win he has a powerful scream, and it was powerful enough to overload doom, so i'm pretty sure that even if magneto could recharge himself with it (which i doubt, because its similar to a nuclear explosion), it would overload him also....

Magneto could probably redirect the scream or shield himself from it.

Is that tuning fork on Blackbolt's head made of metal?

i dunno what its made off... but i doubt he could completely shield himself from the full force of thes cream... without severily weakening himself... to the point of not being able to do anything offensive.

You should read the thread. Most of the points you're both making have been addressed already.

addressed by opinion feel free to try to "prove" them wrong... i'm sure you addressed them with your opinion...

From what I can gather, It's a much more controlled use of the same "transformative energy" that powers his quasi-sonic scream and his Master Blow. So, uhh, there ya go.

I have a question, though. How would Magneto know Black Bolt uses a particle that interacts with electrons to produce this shockwave? I mean, knowing he could ignore lightning (electricity) and Ice Man's attacks (superconductawhatnow?) is fairly simple science these days. How would he know that Black Bolt is using an unidentifiable particle that interacts with electrons to produce a shockwave of pure destructive force?

Also, I know Magneto can manipulate electrons, but at some point, BB's attack stops relying on electrons and just becomes a shockwave. How could Magneto stop that, he can't just move all the electrons in the area away from Black Bolt can he?

You call his scream "charged energy". Well, is it positively charged? Negatively? Does changing it from positive to negative effect the fact that it destroys anything it comes into contact with? I don't even think calling it charged energy means what you think it does. I think, once the initial electron/particle reaction happens, the resulting energy is out of Magneto's hands, but that's just me. I'm just looking for answers to my questions, I'm still unsure about who could beat who.

So we have an "unknown type of particle which interacts with ambient electrons." The writers don't have the slightest clue how BB's powers work, but if you insist on getting all scientifically : it's not mere electrons, but an interaction of unknown particles and electrons.

That's very important, or do you think Magneto can absorb the electrons and neutralize the unknown particles in half a second ? Can you predict what will happen when the unknown particles will be confronted with the magnetic powers of Magneto ? No you can't, nobody can.

Nobody of the Magneto defenders have answered this question. Or, can anybody guarantee me they know:

1. the exact extent of Magneto's "absorbing powers" ?
2. the origin of the unknown particles and their role ?
3. how the unknown particles will interact with Magneto's power (who is, by the way, NOT magnetism incarnated). For all we know, it' KABLOOM-Magneto.

i think ppl are getting a little bit too crazy with magneto's supposed abilty to absorb electrons. when black bolt gets his scream on its the massive "uncontrollable disturbance" of the electron interaction field that causes the shockwave. the same way the moving of tectonic plates cuases e-quakes. so after BB does his thing its not the electrons are any other ambient particles themselves that are going to reach magneto its the subsequent shockwave thats gonna reduce him to subatomic particles.

the same way guys like hulk and superman can just CLAP up a hurricane from outta nowhere. i dont know the exact "science" behind it so dont try to get into it with me, but i think its when the sound barrier gets broken or something those "free floating" electrons explode and concuss the flow of air thats in these elctrons immediate vicinty or somthing. IDK so dont try to counter my reasoning

Magneto used to be an X-man. They keep all kinds of files on just about everybody. In fact, most superhero teams keep extensive records about friends and foes and frequently share intel with each other. Presumably, Magneto would know about BB's powers from those files.

Another way he could know is by reading BB's energy signature right away. Magneto indicated that elemental mutants (and specialty mutants like Forge) can actually perceive the world along the elemental lines they control. So Magneto would be able to read the energy that BB eminates and have an instinctive idea of how to approach the fight.

Finally, Magneto, just by putting his shields up (which, as I mentioned earlier, works by removing electrons from objects and automatically generating an identical charge), would be able to block the charged energy coming his way.

As for whether it's "charged energy" or a shockwave, I'll address that a bit further below.



His shield, which works based upon rejecting electrons, would do that automatically. Any electron-based energy his way would be automatically repelled with a negative charge.



Given that it's electron-based energy, it would be negatively charged, since an electron is negative energy. If Black Bolt generated Protons, then, you know....

By generating negative EM energy, Magneto would repel re-direct BB's energy back at him. I don't know how BB would react to that. Perhaps he's immune to his own power, perhaps he could absorb it back into himself, perhaps he could disperse his own energy, I don't know. But either way, it wouldn't hurt Magneto.

I'll address the shockwave thing below.



I talked about this in an earlier post. I said that while the unknown particle interacts with ambient electrons is the cause of the attack, the effect of the attack is very much known and fully understood. It generates a shockwave of protonic energy. The unknown particles just facilitates the stimulation that creates the blast. So Magneto wouldn't have to deal with that.



No, because there's no release of the unknown particle, according to his bio. It's just the stimulus.



Guarantee is a strong word. It's all speculation and theory.



Untested. It's one of those mysteries, like whether there's really a limit to Hulk's strength, or whether Juggy is really infinitely durable. Perhaps a writer would write it so that Magneto does get overwhelmed. That's ok. Perhaps another writer would write it so that Magneto easily absorbs it. That's ok too. All I can do is say that he has the ability to absorb that type of energy. It's completely open whether or not there's a limit to how much of that type of energy he can absorb, given that there's no evidence for or opposed to it. I say yes, maybe you say no. That's the comic board for ya.



If anyone could answer that, it wouldn't be an unknown particle. It's a lot like "extra-dimensional sources" that seems to be responsible for half the superpowers in the Marvel Universe. But as I said above, it doesn't matter what the unknown particles are...they're just the catalyst for his power, not the output.



Didn't you ask all three of these in the beginning of your post?

The explanation on the shockwave is coming below.



ok, about the shockwaves. I think there's a misunderstanding on the parts of all three of you about what exactly a shockwave is.

A shockwave is what's considered a P-type wave. It's the propagation of a change in volume. Essentially, it squeezes and unsqueezes whatever medium it's using (in this case, electron energy and air). The shockwave itself is meaningless - it's just the squeezing of the air. That's like saying, "he was killed by a sonic boom". It's not a sonic boom that kills you, it's the sound energy that kills you. What does the damage of a shockwave is the individual particles vibrating to and fro in the direction of the propagation. The "individual particles" that vibrate in the direction of the shockwave are particles of whatever caused the disturbance in the first place. In this case, it's the electron energy that was released by the interaction between the unknown particles and the electrons. It generated a shockwave in its wake, but that's not what gets you. It's the rapid vibration of the energy creating massive destruction that gets you. And it would get anybody...except someone who can control charged energy.

It was a little science-intensive, but I hope that made sense.

Can't Magneto's electro magnitic Force Field block attacks agianst him ? This question was probably already asked I am not sure. But I know magneto lives off the entire earths magnitic field. In the 90's Xmen cartoon on asteriod M one of his top acolytes drain his energy and his body plain out disappear . But when he got close enough to the earth he reappeared. Because the earths Magnitic field revived him . But I don't think there is a limit with magneto. I think he draws his power from the earth's electro magnitic field and that's alot of power . He can run out though but as long he's near the earth he can always recharge and if anything electrical makes him stronger he can use his powers probably at a greater maximun level. When you attack you don't hold it in. Doesn't magneto project magnitic beams or blast to. And if he's made stronger won't that make his force field stronger?

Also another thing If magneto was in a Ship and it was about to explode his force field would protect Him agianst the explosion and the enivorment around him wouldn't effect him.

Yes, Magneto had forcefields that block attacks against them. I don't recall it ever being broken outright, though Thor came close back in the 70s. A couple of other people have managed to get around it too, but again, not since his second power up.

As for Magneto losing his body, that was only in the cartoon, though there have been some hints recently in Excalibur that he doesn't just harness magnetic energy...he largely IS magnetic energy, and may not actually need a body, which is why he doesn't seem to ever die, even though he should have.

Bump.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Bump.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
In my court he's guilty on both counts. I always wondered about that. Like if Jean pressed her forehead into his or held her head in the mouth hole of Juggernaut's helmet.

He'd prolly lick her forehead. That's all I have to say.

Bump.

Black Bolt wins.

Blackbolt

Meh, an argument can be made for either really. I can see either winning the majority.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Meh, an argument can be made for either really. I can see either winning the majority.
How do u see magneto winning?

Originally posted by Naija boy
How do u see magneto winning?
Mags' electromagnetic control > Blackbolt's.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Mags' electromagnetic control > Blackbolt's.

Perhaps but Blackbolts control is certainly good enough to make a fight of it, add that to his voice, matter manipulation, output advantage, physical advantages like strength,speed durability and id say BB takes a good majority.

Magneto FTW.

I like this battle, could be a really good read if done well.
Still, Magneto > BB.

Has Magneto ever been shown to absorb/discharge that much energy?

Originally posted by Naija boy
How do u see magneto winning?

With his power set, Magneto has a lot of options.

Who wins, really depends on how Magneto and Black Bolt fight. Either can win.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
With his power set, Magneto has a lot of options.

Who wins, really depends on how Magneto and Black Bolt fight. Either can win.

I really dont see how magneto can take the majority bar any stupid fighting on BB's part.. BB has top quality electromagnetic control,matter manip,higher offensive energy output, much better physical stats which he can amp even higher and then of course his voice.

Magneto has the better control over the electromagnetic spectrum which is evident, he has shown he can manipulate matter etc. at the subatomic level, he as well has incredible energy out put. He has incredible control over all types of energy, such as heat, light, gravity etc.

Magneto winning this fight, is just as possible as Black Bolt winning it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Magneto has the better control over the electromagnetic spectrum which is evident, he has shown he can manipulate matter etc. at the subatomic level, he as well has incredible energy out put. He has incredible control over all types of energy, such as heat, light, gravity etc.

Magneto winning this fight, is just as possible as Black Bolt winning it.

YEs he does have better control over the EM spectrum. But BB's own ability is no slouch in that regard. Mags energy ouput certainly isnt as large as BB's. I didnt know mags could manipulate matter. What transmutation and other similar matter manip feats does he have? Further his control over energy is part of his control over the EM spectrum. Its not a seperate ability.

Point is that magneto has one advantage in this fight which is his EM spectrum control. However Blackbolt is good enough in that area to make a fight of it WITHOUT taking into account his numerous other advantages. When u add in his speed,strength,durability,matter manip, and then offensive output advantage, he comes out on top.

1. Magneto isn't coping with BB energy output at his max. So, once Mags goes defensive, he loses.
2. Magneto can win by frying BB's cerebral system/paralysing him before BB begins to talk/amp himself/anything. Question is, how simple is that - if BB is charged with energy, Mags won't be able to interrupt the workings of his systems.

So, the King 8/10

Originally posted by Naija boy
YEs he does have better control over the EM spectrum. But BB's own ability is no slouch in that regard. Mags energy ouput certainly isnt as large as BB's. I didnt know mags could manipulate matter. What transmutation and other similar matter manip feats does he have? Further his control over energy is part of his control over the EM spectrum. Its not a seperate ability. .

Black Bolt's control is impressive but Magneto is still evidently superior.

Magneto's main power stems from his control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum, so of course his energy manipulation just as his other powers stems from it. Doesn't change the fact, that it allows him to manipulate multiple forms of energy.

His manipulated matter on the subatomic scale before on different occasions.

No one knows Magneto's maximum power out put. He like Black Bolt has never used all his power in one massive out burst. Black Bolt controls electrons etc. and Magneto controls one of the fundamental forces of the Universe.

We cannot guess either maximum power output besides that it would be incredibly powerful.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Point is that magneto has one advantage in this fight which is his EM spectrum control. However Blackbolt is good enough in that area to make a fight of it WITHOUT taking into account his numerous other advantages. When u add in his speed,strength,durability,matter manip, and then offensive output advantage, he comes out on top.

The point is, Black Bolt cannot match Magneto's control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum and as Magneto controls the Electromagnetic Spectrum he also has the ability to manipulate electrons to an unspecified limit. He could directly interfere with Black Bolt's ability to use his powers.

So I could just as easily say, Magneto is able to fight Black Bolt with his simple control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum.

Black Bolt also has one weakness that Magneto can take advantage off, and that is the fork on his head.

Also Magneto can augment his strength, durability, speed etc. to the point where he is a high Class 100 and can snatch speedsters such as North Star out of the air.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Black Bolt's control is impressive but Magneto is still evidently superior.

Magneto's main power stems from his control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum, so of course his energy manipulation just as his other powers stems from it. Doesn't change the fact, that it allows him to manipulate multiple forms of energy.

His manipulated matter on the subatomic scale before on different occasions.


Mags control over the EM spectrum is greater than blackbolts yes. But the fact that BB can give mags a good fight in that regard speaks volumes considering that he has many other options to choose from.

Could u post a scan or give a specific instance of mags "matter manipulation"? Because the only instances i recalling are technically "energy manipulation" since it had to do with his control over the EM spectrum. What im really referring to are feats in the vein of transmutation.



Id rather not play the game of guesstimation. Im basing it only on feats and in that regard BB has a higher energy output than Mags



Not really. Magneto having control over the EM spectrum doesnt automatically mean he will be able to overide BBs electron control and subsequently interfere with his powers. In fact there is nothing that supports that at all. True Magneto can amp his strength and speed but still not to put him at a level of Blackbolt who can one shot the likes of Namor and Ikaris. Plus if magneto doesnt have his shields up at the start of the fight(which he shouldnt have per forum rules), a whisper from BB would end it quick

I think you necromancers should probably read this thread from its start. Demigawd makes a very convincing point, and backs it up well. I think all the arguments that could be made already have been.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Mags control over the EM spectrum is greater than blackbolts yes. But the fact that BB can give mags a good fight in that regard speaks volumes considering that he has many other options to choose from.

Black Bolt has shown control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum to the point where he can challenge Magneto, when exactly?

Magneto's control is beyond Black Bolt in terms of control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Could u post a scan or give a specific instance of mags "matter manipulation"? Because the only instances i recalling are technically "energy manipulation" since it had to do with his control over the EM spectrum. What im really referring to are feats in the vein of transmutation.

What do you mean in the vein of transmutation?

You mean something akin to turning say Gold to Water etc.?

I don't recall Magneto doing something of that sort. He has manipulated matter at a subatomic scale before, like I said. I didn't say anything of transmutation.

Of course it stems from his control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum. That's his main power set.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Id rather not play the game of guesstimation. Im basing it only on feats and in that regard BB has a higher energy output than Mags

Going by feats, we haven't see the up most of either, and going by feats, who has the higher energy out put is highly debatable.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Not really. Magneto having control over the EM spectrum doesnt automatically mean he will be able to overide BBs electron control and subsequently interfere with his powers. In fact there is nothing that supports that at all. True Magneto can amp his strength and speed but still not to put him at a level of Blackbolt who can one shot the likes of Namor and Ikaris. Plus if magneto doesnt have his shields up at the start of the fight(which he shouldnt have per forum rules), a whisper from BB would end it quick

He manipulates the Electromagnetic Spectrum, and Black Bolt's power stems from Electrons. Based on this, Magneto can interfere with Black Bolt's power set as his main power derives from manipulating Electrons such as adjacent Electrons etc.

He never one shot Ikaris, and Namor came back fine as I recall.

Magneto can amp up his strength, durability etc. to vast levels.

While weakened he took a blow from Colossus to the face unharmed, while weakened has gone toe to toe with Colossus. His shrugged of Hercules who had him in a grip like a rag doll etc.

Magneto can increase his strength to vast levels. Black Bolt's strength isn't going to be what wins this for him.

Magneto with a thought can put up his shields and this is Magneto's main form of defense. This will be the first thing he would do if he is smart, which Magneto is as he is a genius, both tactically and in terms of intelligence. Magneto Force Field will be up before Black Bolt says a word.

Originally posted by Timslar
I think you necromancers should probably read this thread from its start. Demigawd makes a very convincing point, and backs it up well. I think all the arguments that could be made already have been.

I'm to lazy but you're probably right. It's happened to me a lot of times when people bring up arguments that I have disputed in the earlier pages of a thread. I know how annoying it is.

I'll start now.

Not true at all.
I mean that.

Magneto burned himself out during Magneto War. That means, he can output enough energy to reverse Earth's magnetic poles at best. And after long charge.


BB can easily sucker punch Mags with concentrated shot from his antennae. So what?

IMHO, larely irrelevant. Once it goes slugfest, mags loses. He isn't tanking the Master Blow.

It's like you put a fan against a hurricane, and claim that it can interfere with the tornado.
Sure it can. Still the fan gets, well, broken.

Control is limited by powers invloved. The more the power is, the less control one can exert on her.

And force field won't hold the fabric-of-reality-tearing scream for long. Therein lies the problem.

Magneto has control over the electromagnetic spectrum? Over photons?? All because he controls magnetism???

I understand the physics, but isn't this defeating the purpose of him being "Magneto"? Now he can hoist/flip all kinds of objects (not just metal) and do limited matter manip?

Part of the fun of the character was that he could be handled by nonmetal contrivances, eg, plastic jail cell.

Ah well...

Black Bolt wins. Say they're equals with matter/energy manipulation. I would think, on the physical/h2h level, BB would dominate.

Originally posted by Survivor19
Not true at all.
I mean that.

Magneto burned himself out during Magneto War. That means, he can output enough energy to reverse Earth's magnetic poles at best. And after long charge.

How long ago was that?

I said energy output. In a way such as a destructive blast. Black Bolt has also been exhausted in the past, by applying his power into a specific portion such as his Master Blow.

We are talking about energy output. Pure energy output.

Originally posted by Survivor19
BB can easily sucker punch Mags with concentrated shot from his antennae. So what?

What?

First of all that isn't happening with his Force Field and second of all I'm talking about his antenna as a weakness. I could easily just as say Magneto sucker punches Black Bolt with a Magnetic pulse, or you could say Black Bolt sucker punches Magneto with a whisper etc. It's completely irrelevant.

Originally posted by Survivor19
IMHO, larely irrelevant. Once it goes slugfest, mags loses. He isn't tanking the Master Blow.

Who said anything about a slug fest?

With his defenses he can tank a Master Blow obviously and that's a fatal mistake for Black Bolt. He uses up a large portion of his power that way.

Also, I don't believe it will come down to a slug fest. Either way, Black Bolt's strength isn't what's going to win this for him and Magneto is incredible durable and strong, and can also amp himself vastly.

Originally posted by Survivor19
It's like you put a fan against a hurricane, and claim that it can interfere with the tornado.
Sure it can. Still the fan gets, well, broken.

That's a faulty comparison.

Magneto with his control over the Electromagnetic spectrum, can affect electrons to a vast degree. He can directly interfere with Black Bolt's power set.

Originally posted by Survivor19
Control is limited by powers invloved. The more the power is, the less control one can exert on her.

That's not the situation all the time. One could be superior in power and in control.

Whose her? We are talking about Magneto and Black Bolt here.

Originally posted by Survivor19
And force field won't hold the fabric-of-reality-tearing scream for long. Therein lies the problem.

So, Black Bolt has Reed's technology here does he?

I don't recall that being in his standard arsenal.

Context, is IMPORTANT.

Magneto on the other hand, can open a rip in space on his own. I doubt Black Bolt can survive a worm hole in his head.

Well, i tried to find the peak magneto. Yep, it was THAT long ago.
We aren't useing here current featless Magneto, are we?

When Magneto will power up freakingly fast interstellar travelling city, which uses armada-destroying blasts, and army of robots without any sign offatigue, then we are talking about comparable energy output.

Right you are. Let's not talk about sucker punches.

Still, he can't handle the power output, nor affect it (like absorb or reflect) in any way. Freaking Watcher couldn't handle it and Mags is no Watcher.

Black Bolt is inferior in control, but he completely dwarves Magneto with level of his power. That's what i mean.

It was BB's power that ripped the space.
Reed's tech was needed to ensure the Earth doesn't die from that.
Also, how many times has Magneto created an wormhole? Like, once? Around himself only?
I doubt it can be used as battle technicue here, except for self-bfr.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Black Bolt has shown control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum to the point where he can challenge Magneto, when exactly?

Magneto's control is beyond Black Bolt in terms of control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum.


Blackbolt is no slouch in EM control. He has shown to be able to absorb energy,neutralize energy, manipulate polarities, make constructs and forcefields,track and trace energy types etc.




Yeah thats what i meant as i was trying to draw a comparison to BB who does have that ability.



There is nothing debatable by feats which is what matters not some speculative upper limit. BB's, energy blasts have sent the sphinx hurtling light years away,has shown to have the output to power Attilan for the next ten millenia, used his energy to power a bomb that was going to destroy the negative barrirer etc. And this is all without using his voice.



True Mags manipulates the EM spectrum at a wide range than BB, however Blackbolts specializes at electron manipulation. So in order for Mags to be able to somehow block off or interfere with BBs powers, he would have to be able to manipulate electrons in particular at a superior level o BB. That is not the case

I meant to use the Ikaris match as an example of his speed. As for the namor incident namor didnt come back fine at all. He was oneshotted into a hydro electric dam and even with that still didnt return for the rest of the fight. And that was actually a weakened blackbolt. The point isnt that blackbolt strength is going to win it for him. Its that his strength is another of the many advantages he has in this match and its the totality of those advantages that will win it for him. Magnetos forcefield while powerful will still be penetrated and when this happens he is done.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Has Magneto ever been shown to absorb/discharge that much energy?
Magneto's torn holes in spacetime with his own power. Unlike BB, who needed Reed's tech to amp his powers in order to achieve that affect.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Magneto's torn holes in spacetime with his own power. Unlike BB, who needed Reed's tech to amp his powers in order to achieve that affect.

Purely using his energy output? Or thru some sort of manipulation?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Purely using his energy output? Or thru some sort of manipulation?
I'm not entirely clear what you're asking. Magnus has used his control over the electromagnetic force to rend spacetime, creating wormholes with which to transport himself from point A to point B. Happens just prior to House of M starting up, in an Excalibur issue. Might have done it more times than that, as well.

Err, I dunno if BB can, but Magnus also has matter manipulation abilities.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Black Bolt has shown control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum to the point where he can challenge Magneto, when exactly?
Well, Black Bolt has enough control of electrons to turn a boulder into anti-matter with ease. He can cause every single atom in someone's body to collide with the others at the same time (apparently, he threatened Madrox with this). He messed with Adam Warlock's karmic blasts, with Nova's gravimetric force. He can cause water in the air to solidify, or reduce the breathing air in the surrounding atmosphere.

Mags is good, but Black Bolt's no slouch. It would be hard to mess with his control over his powers.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm not entirely clear what you're asking. Magnus has used his control over the electromagnetic force to rend spacetime, creating wormholes with which to transport himself from point A to point B. Happens just prior to House of M starting up, in an Excalibur issue. Might have done it more times than that, as well.

Err, I dunno if BB can, but Magnus also has matter manipulation abilities.


As i suspected. What i was referring to was magnetos energy output being able to rend spacetime. Similar to the way surfer did. What uve described now is magneto creating a wormhole through manipulation of electromagnetic forces. Impressive but doesnt tell us anything about his offensive energy output. ( In the same vein Blackbolt has infact also used his powers to seal multiple blackholes).

Yes BB does have matter manip abilities and can even produce antimatter.

Originally posted by Survivor19
Well, i tried to find the peak magneto. Yep, it was THAT long ago.
We aren't useing here current featless Magneto, are we?

Like I said, we are talking about, energy output.

Hold on. You said Magneto Wars. I haven't read it in a while, but are you using Joseph?

Originally posted by Survivor19
When Magneto will power up freakingly fast interstellar travelling city, which uses armada-destroying blasts, and army of robots without any sign offatigue, then we are talking about comparable energy output.

Don't waste my time by stating feats that I already know. I have read all of Black Bolt's appearances and know practically all there is to know about him.

I know what he is capable off, but I also know what Magnus has been capable off. He has manipulated the entire world's EM sphere, and other incredible feats.

What you are listing is a result of Black Bolt's voice. His voice is the cause of Electron interaction that is connected to the speech part of his brain.

It's not pure energy output. What Black Bolt does, is cause the interaction, which results in the affect that his voice produces. I do believe Black Bolt is more powerful than Magneto in terms of raw destructive capabilities but that only takes him so far. Hell, his greatest asset his voice, is caused by ambient Electron interaction, and guess what Magneto has shown to control or stop to a vast extent?

He can effectively negate the process that causes Black Bolt's destructive voice.

Originally posted by Survivor19
Right you are. Let's not talk about sucker punches.

You're the one who brought it up, not me.

Originally posted by Survivor19
Still, he can't handle the power output, nor affect it (like absorb or reflect) in any way. Freaking Watcher couldn't handle it and Mags is no Watcher.

Doom with the power of the watcher, tried to absorb the direct destructive power of Black Bolt's voice.

One doesn't have to be more powerful, to stop or effectively negate it. Magneto can control Electron interactions etc. and control Electrons on a vast scale. Black Bolt's voice is a direct cause of ambient Electron interactions. His power is the spark that's starts the destructive out burst known as his Quasi Sonic scream.

One doesn't have to be more powerful to win a fight. Finesse has beaten raw power on multiple occasions.

Originally posted by Survivor19
Black Bolt is inferior in control, but he completely dwarves Magneto with level of his power. That's what i mean.

You think Black Bolt's power is that much greater than Magneto's level of power?

Black Bolt can cause more destruction than Magneto, but that doesn't mean his level of power dwarves Magneto's. I think Black Bolt might be more powerful, and he is obviously more powerful in terms of destruction, but that's it. He doesn't not completely out class Magneto in terms of power. That's silly.

Originally posted by Survivor19
It was BB's power that ripped the space.
Reed's tech was needed to ensure the Earth doesn't die from that.
Also, how many times has Magneto created an wormhole? Like, once? Around himself only?
I doubt it can be used as battle technicue here, except for self-bfr.

Reed's technology augmented Black Bolt's power, and then used the energy to create a rift in space. Context.

He has shown the ability to control and create worm holes etc. on different occasions. Magneto has shown the ability to tear holes in Space/Time on his own and have control over the affected area. Him creating one where Black Bolt is, doesn't seem like it's out of his power etc.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Blackbolt is no slouch in EM control. He has shown to be able to absorb energy,neutralize energy, manipulate polarities, make constructs and forcefields,track and trace energy types etc.

Everything Magneto has done with ease for a while now. I'm not saying he is a slouch. Far from it. His extremely impressive as you know. Black Bolt is extremely impressive in that category, but not on the level of Magneto.

I'm not even arguing that Magneto wins this fight, I'm saying that who wins this is extremely debatable. I personally see either winning and I believe I said I can see Black Bolt taking the majority, but to think Magneto doesn't stand a chance or can't win a few fights is just plain wrong in my opinion. A reasonable argument can be made for why Magneto can win.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Yeah thats what i meant as i was trying to draw a comparison to BB who does have that ability.

I do not believe he has ever caused direct transmutation, but Magneto has shown matter manipulation to the subatomic scale on different occasions in the past. He has matter manipulation abilities but I don't believe he has ever done something akin to turning dirt to gold, or bread to fish etc. Not that I recall at least.

Originally posted by Naija boy
There is nothing debatable by feats which is what matters not some speculative upper limit. BB's, energy blasts have sent the sphinx hurtling light years away,has shown to have the output to power Attilan for the next ten millenia, used his energy to power a bomb that was going to destroy the negative barrirer etc. And this is all without using his voice.

Actually, it is debatable. I know all of this, but Magneto has incredibly impressive feats of his own that make this debatable.

Manipulation of ambient electrons etc. does not mean more energy output. Magneto has also shown incredible feats, going by that such as beating the Phoenix etc.

Originally posted by Naija boy
True Mags manipulates the EM spectrum at a wide range than BB, however Blackbolts specializes at electron manipulation. So in order for Mags to be able to somehow block off or interfere with BBs powers, he would have to be able to manipulate electrons in particular at a superior level o BB. That is not the case

That's the thing though, Magneto has shown the ability to manipulate Electrons such as Electron interactions etc. to a vast degree.

Magneto manipulates charged energy all the time as it's an aspect of the EM which he has complete control over. Greater control than almost anyone. That's what he does with his Force Field. It removes Electrons from objects to create a charge, then mimics the charge to repel the object. He not only has Electron control to such a direct degree, he also has a more broader range of control than Black Bolt. He can simply stop the affect that causes Black Bolt's destructive voice from occurring, which is the direct result of ambient Electron/Particle interaction. He would have more control over Black Bolt's destructive voice than Black Bolt does. Black Bolt has control only to a limited extent. This is evident by the fact that he contain his own power, which is created through Electron/Particle interaction.

True Black Bolt has impressive control, and directly, ambient Electron control, I don't think Magneto trumps him.

The Electron Energy that Black Bolt creates it simply another aspect of charged Electromagnetic energy which Magneto has complete control over. Greater control than Black Bolt.

Originally posted by Naija boy
I meant to use the Ikaris match as an example of his speed. As for the namor incident namor didnt come back fine at all. He was oneshotted into a hydro electric dam and even with that still didnt return for the rest of the fight. And that was actually a weakened blackbolt. The point isnt that blackbolt strength is going to win it for him. Its that his strength is another of the many advantages he has in this match and its the totality of those advantages that will win it for him. Magnetos forcefield while powerful will still be penetrated and when this happens he is done.

When Namor came back, he wasn't harmed as I recall. I mean even the Thing was able to rock him there. If they double teamed him in such a state, it would have been unfair. Namor would give Black Bolt a decent run for his money hand to hand wise on a good day.

Black Bolt's physical strength isn't winning this for him. Magneto has taken blows from Namor, Colossus etc. without being hurt and that was while weakened. He has shrugged of Hercules, like a rag doll etc. Like Black Bolt, Magneto can amp himself to vast levels. Magneto wouldn't resort to physical violence either way.

Do you know what the cause of Magneto's Force Field is?

The power that Black Bolt generates is not breaching it. Electron/Particle interaction is something that Magneto has control over. More so than than Black Bolt.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Well, Black Bolt has enough control of electrons to turn a boulder into anti-matter with ease. He can cause every single atom in someone's body to collide with the others at the same time (apparently, he threatened Madrox with this). He messed with Adam Warlock's karmic blasts, with Nova's gravimetric force. He can cause water in the air to solidify, or reduce the breathing air in the surrounding atmosphere.

Mags is good, but Black Bolt's no slouch. It would be hard to mess with his control over his powers.

I never said Black Bolt is a slouch. His power and control is impressive. More impressive than almost anyone. Magneto is just a few people who can directly affect him and the use of his powers. Hence why this is such a good fight. Black Bolt might have more destructive power, but finesse beats someone with a bigger boom, many times in comics.

Black Bolt's control is impressive, but Magneto's control is superior.

I know all of what Black Bolt has done.

Magneto isn't controlling energies Black Bolt unleashes. He simply doesn't have enough power to affect them.
Since one needs to apply sufficient force to control anything externally, and Magneto's limit is Earth magnitosphere (as evidenced by Magneto War). BB's output is much higher then that.

The destructive force unleashed, is a result of that Electron/Particle interaction. Magneto has shown the ability to control it. He can simply prevent the process to from occuring in the first place.

Either way, the charged energy created is something that Magneto manipulates all the time. He has complete control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum. If anything, it could amp Magneto.

Magneto doesn't lack the power and Magneto does not need to equal the destructive force to prevent or direct it in a different fashion.

I'm not a scientist, so if anyone knows better, or finds a mistake, please feel free, to correct me or explain it better.

I believe you do realise that this assumption is pure speculation on your part.
At max, I give Mags ability to stop the nerve impulses in BB's brain, therefore preventing him from initiating the process.
The process itself is, to us comic book readers unknown (Reed and Maximus obviously know it) so it's incorrect to say that Mags can stop it.

If anything, it will overload and fry him.
Eric is no Watcher. He won't fare better.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri


I put Thanos over Blackbolt coz he's an immortal and cannot be killed.



-AC I put Thanos over Blackbolt....because he's better than Blackbolt...

I don't know about this, Mags was able to cloak himself from BB's acute senses but BB has shown more raw power IMO.

I'll have to see current Magneto who is apparently more powerful then ever do something really impressive to say that he can beat Blackbolt.

Mags in the old days could build complicated machines(Super Cloning Machines) out of junk with a thought...if he can hold out enough to assemble this one then he'd have a chance:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7566/amazingadv197100910cs1.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9752/amazingadv197100911ap3.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8236/amazingadv197100920tm6.jpg
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/3016/amazingadv197100921sj3.jpg

I'd give it to Blackbolt though.

Originally posted by Survivor19
I believe you do realise that this assumption is pure speculation on your part.
At max, I give Mags ability to stop the nerve impulses in BB's brain, therefore preventing him from initiating the process.
The process itself is, to us comic book readers unknown (Reed and Maximus obviously know it) so it's incorrect to say that Mags can stop it.

It's just logical reasoning. Black Bolt's voice occurs, by Electron/Particle interaction. It's the spark that produces the destructive force known as his Quasi-Sonic scream. The charged energy produced.

Magneto has control over all of this. It's all just part of the EM that he controls.

Magneto has shown that he can control Electron interaction, and he controls charged energy. He does it frequently. Magneto would have better control over his voice than Black Bolt himself.

The process required to do so is not that different, from what Magneto has done in the past.

The process is explained clearly. It's created by Electron/Particle interaction.

Originally posted by Survivor19
If anything, it will overload and fry him.
Eric is no Watcher. He won't fare better.

I already explained this.

Doom tried to absorb the destructive force as it is. He tried to absorb the raw power generated. Magneto controls the charged energy, and can manipulate it and use it for himself.

That's it. I see it now.

You have no clue whatsoever about what you are talking about.

Until you learn the difference between charge and energy, and 4 main types of interaction, it's useless for us to speak.

Charged energy, my ass.... things they come up with...

Sorry, I meant, EM energy.

I said I'm no physicist.

My mistake doesn't change the fact, that the magnetic field that electrons produce, and the EM energy charged particles emit is under Magneto's control.

I don't think Magneto has enough power to stop Blackbolt. He is just that good. Blackbolt has matter manipulation feats. Going by that, he has better control than Magneto. To my knowledge, the only feat even close to what Blackbolt has done was Magneto making a comb out of thin air. One of Blackbolts feats is actually transmuting somebody into another substance, I believe. Also, Blackbolt has made several miniature black holes with ease, while Magneto only made one wormhole, which may or may not be cannon. He even got a cosmic entity to recognize his power.

is that scan im his respect thread, i always loved that scene

Originally posted by ashroro
I don't think Magneto has enough power to stop Blackbolt. He is just that good. Blackbolt has matter manipulation feats. Going by that, he has better control than Magneto. To my knowledge, the only feat even close to what Blackbolt has done was Magneto making a comb out of thin air. One of Blackbolts feats is actually transmuting somebody into another substance, I believe. Also, Blackbolt has made several miniature black holes with ease, while Magneto only made one wormhole, which may or may not be cannon. He even got a cosmic entity to recognize his power.

He stopped several miniature black holes, and Magneto has made worm holes on different occasions without a problem and they are cannon.

Magneto also has matter manipulation feats.

The fact that Black Bolt has such bad control over his voice shows that Magneto would have better control over his Electron/Particle interaction. Someone with Magneto's control, could completely prevent that, and allow Black Bolt to speak freely. It might be some side affect that doesn't allow him to do so, who knows. It makes Black Bolt seem incredibly badass, but it puts into question how much control he has, and Magneto has a broader range.

Like I said earlier though, Black Bolt has greater control than Magneto in a certain aspect which is obvious, but overall, if they were to match each other in control, Magneto with his natural domination of the Electromagnetic Spectrum, does have better control.

Magneto has been compared to Cosmic Entities in the past.

His voice isn't what's going to win this for him.

Black Bolt doesn't need his voice to win this though. He can win the majority without using voice. His power set is incredibly versatile.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I never said Black Bolt is a slouch. His power and control is impressive. More impressive than almost anyone. Magneto is just a few people who can directly affect him and the use of his powers. Hence why this is such a good fight. Black Bolt might have more destructive power, but finesse beats someone with a bigger boom, many times in comics.

Black Bolt's control is impressive, but Magneto's control is superior.

I know all of what Black Bolt has done. That's nice and all, but what has Magneto done with electrons that's superior to Black Bolt?

You mean what has Magneto shown that would suggest he can negate his scream etc.?

Black Bolt's scream, is Electron/Particle interruption. With his control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum, Magneto has shown on different occasions that show he can control this.

Someone like Magneto could simply negate the process from ever happening.

Black Bolt has shown that he is incredibly powerful, but he has shown his control is limited, and not as broad as Magneto's.

Based on how he creates his Force Field, such a task should be simple enouhg for Magneto.

Plus a lot of Black Bolt's, power comes from Electrons, which with the Magnetic Field that they release, is part of the Electromagnetic Field. Based on this, and what Magneto can do, and has done. Magneto can also directly interfere with his power set.

Again, one doesn't have to be more powerful to win, simply have enough control, and power to exploit the cracks in ones armor.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
You mean what has Magneto shown that would suggest he can negate his scream etc.?

Black Bolt's scream, is Electron/Particle interruption. With his control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum, Magneto has shown he has direct control over this interactions on multiple occasion.

Someone like Magneto could simply negate the process from ever happening.

Based on how he creates his Force Field, such a task should be simple for Magneto. Black Bolt's voice controls supposedly unknown particles in an interaction with electrons, and the process happens pretty much instantaneously.

Magneto's never dealt with these reactions.

He has dealt with interactions between particles, but that's not relevant, really.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Again, one doesn't have to be more powerful to win, simply have enough control, and power to exploit the cracks in ones armor. I'm aware of this. Still, you haven't shown any cracks to be exploited.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Black Bolt's voice controls supposedly unknown particles in an interaction with electrons, and the process happens pretty much instantaneously.

Magneto's never dealt with these reactions.

He has dealt with interactions between particles, but that's not relevant, really.

Black Bolt's voice is the direct cause of Electron/Particle interaction. The said Particle is apparently unknown, but the process still remains.

Magneto has shown on different occasions, he has control over such interactions. His Force Field and how he creates is a testament.

Magneto also has complete control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum, which Magnetic Fields fall under, which are produced when Electrons produce, when they move(Did I get the last part right?).

Electron's participate in Electromagnetic interactions all the time.
Isn't Electron energy that make metal manipulation possible in the first place?

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I'm aware of this. Still, you haven't shown any cracks to be exploited.

Maybe you aren't getting it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Black Bolt's voice is the direct cause of Electron/Particle interaction. The said Particle is apparently unknown, but the process still remains.

Yes. It's a process that Magneto has no familiarity with. We have no idea how exactly the electrons react with the particles, so Magneto has no idea what to prevent. He wouldn't even know that Black Bolt's voice controls electrons and unknown particles.

To say that Magneto could continuously prevent every use of the voice is supposition at best.

Edit.

What the ****? I hate Fire Fox. It just split my browser in half or something, and the post I made was lost. ****ing gay.

We don't even know WTF these particles are.
And they aren't doing electromagnetic interactions Magneto can interfere with. It's subatomic forces at work, another matter entirely. Not electromagnetism, at all...

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Yes. It's a process that Magneto has no familiarity with. We have no idea how exactly the electrons react with the particles, so Magneto has no idea what to prevent. He wouldn't even know that Black Bolt's voice controls electrons and unknown particles.

To say that Magneto could continuously prevent every use of the voice is supposition at best.

****! I have to start all over.

Anyways.....

We know it's Electron/Particle interaction. Unless it works with entirely new rules, which was never stated we assume it follows the same Electron/Particle interaction.

Even then, let's assume entirely new rules govern the unknown particles, nothing unknown about the Electrons.

The Electrons are the second piece of the puzzle. Black Bolt's voice is created through the interaction of two Parts, one being Electrons, and one being the unknown Particles.

Magneto can still take Electron's out of play, and prevent the process. The Magnetic Fields Electron's create etc. is part of the Electromagnetic Spectrum that falls under Magneto's control etc.

It's clear that if you remove one piece from the equation, and the Quasi-Sonic scream won't happen. Magneto is capable of this.

That's assuming, new rules are in play. Still, it's Electron/Particle interaction, and Magneto has better control in that area than Black Bolt. It's just a spark that lights a huge fire. For someone like Magneto preventing such an interaction would be simple.

His Force Field, is all the prove we need of Magneto's capabilities with Electron's etc.

With how Magneto can perceive, and sense the world, he should be aware of the process because it's Electron/Particle interaction. Also the X-men who keep extensive files on friends and foe. Do they not?

Black Bolt's voice does not control Electron/Particle interaction. It's simply that Black Bolt produces an unknown particle, that reacts with Electrons such as ambient Electrons (i.e Electron/Particle interaction.) which results in what is known as his Quasi-Sonic scream.

Magneto can control electrons, sure, but he has no idea how to prevent unknown particles from reacting with them.

Especially when teir interaction has no connection to EM whatsoever.

'Electrons' doesn't autimatycally means electromagnetism. It's high school...

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Magneto can control electrons, sure, but he has no idea how to prevent unknown particles from reacting with them.

Just because they are unknown particles, does not mean they are governed by entirely new laws of physics or anything.

It's still Electron/Particle interaction. Magneto based on his multiple showings has shown that he can control such actions.

Originally posted by Survivor19
Especially when teir interaction has no connection to EM whatsoever.

'Electrons' doesn't autimatycally means electromagnetism. It's high school...

Electrons does not automatically mean Electromagnetism, but as Magneto has shown he can control them, also the Magnetic Fields Electrons create, are a part of the Electromagnetic field Magneto controls.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Just because they are unknown particles, does not mean they are governed by entirely new laws of physics or anything. And yet, these particles have been thus far barely detectable, with nigh-instantaneous motion, emerging from one unknown source and causing destruction in their wake.

It would appear that they are actually governed by their own physics.

Black Bolt produces this unknown particles. They react with Electrons such as ambient Electrons, when he speaks to create the Quasi-Sonic scream. They might be unknown but it still Electron/Particle interruption unless they create an entirely way of interacting.

Nothing unknown of the source, and nothing to suggest they are governed by their own laws.

Either way, you take one piece out of the formula, and his Quasi-Sonic scream cannot be produced.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Nothing unknown of the source, and nothing to suggest they are governed by their own laws.

The skrulls couldn't understand where how he could produce such power. Seems that the source is probably unknown.

And, seeing as no tech can identify or replicate it and it's instant reaction with everything is to blow it up, it is probably governed by its own laws. As I've stated.

As I recalled, the Skrulls were able to replicate his powers. Not on a scale such his, but they were able to replicate it.

Reed, Maximus etc. were able to create technology that relates to it, such as amping his Quasi-Sonic scream.

It's not the particle itself, but the result of what happens when that Particle and Electrons interact. That reaction is the destructive force known as the Quasi-Sonic scream.

It's unknown, it's obviously unusual but as I recall, there is nothing that says it is governed by it's own laws.

The fact is, it's supposition and guessing to say that Magneto could affect the reaction when we don't know the laws its governed by. They're still discovering things today in the modern world that are strange about electron reactions and similar particles- things that we have no ability to explain or replicate. It's complete hypothesis to say that just because Magneto can affect electrons in one way, he can affect every possible characteristic of an electron instantaneously at every point close to him in order to stop an impossible, unexplainable reaction.

Magneto has shown that he can affect Electrons, in different ways such as reactions on different occasions.

There is nothing to say new laws govern it. Based on that, it's Electron/Particle interaction which Magneto can affect.

If they discover something that says, Magneto cannot affect interactions then that is something you can use, but Magneto can. Also Magneto does not always follow, the rules of physics himself. He can manipulate the Iron in you're blood for one.

Magneto can affect Electrons in multiple different ways. He has shown that he can affect, and use them for multiple purposes. His control is just that great. He has shown that he can affect interactions etc.

He doesn't have to allow the reaction to occur and prevent it, he can simply prevent the electrons with interacting with the unknown particles from the start. He doesn't have to affect the unknown particles.

Magneto with his complete control over the Electromagnetic Spectrum, is capable of preventing ambient Electrons with interacting with the particles. He has control over the Magnetic Fields, that allow Electrons to move etc. such as interact (Still not sure if I got the last part right.).

It's not complete hypotheses. It's a legitimate possibility, based on what Magneto has shown, and what he can do.

It's Electron/Particle interaction. It follows those rules until said otherwise. The interaction is the same, it's just that the result is different, hence why it's an unknown particle.

Whatever. I've already explained it the best I can.

Blackbolt does not have to only rely on his voice, he has matter manipulation and has on panel cannon proof of making black holes, which again, magneto's wormhole feat may or may not be cannon. He can also amp his strength and other stats also, which is proven in his fights with the hulk and Gladiator. He also has various other abilities also that he can employ against Magneto. I still give Blackbolt the win.

Please, give an example, Where Mags controlled intractions between particles.

You won't be able to do that. Becausse he never did it. Because he can't. Because particles interaction aren't governed by electromagnetic forces. At all.

Reed some physics book.

Originally posted by Survivor19
You won't be able to do that. Becausse he never did it. Because he can't. Because particles interaction aren't governed by electromagnetic forces. At all.

Reed some physics book.

Positive about that? Because anything with electrons are technically fair game for Magneto.

Originally posted by Survivor19
Please, give an example, Where Mags controlled intractions between particles.

You won't be able to do that. Becausse he never did it. Because he can't. Because particles interaction aren't governed by electromagnetic forces. At all.

Reed some physics book.

Dude, Electrons are fair game to Magneto. He manipulates them all the time. One could say he does so because the Magnetic Field they create are part of the Electromagnetic Field which he controls.

His Force Field removes Electrons from objects to create a charge, then mimics the charge to repel the object. That's what was described as I recall about his Force Field...

Particles also emit EM energy which Magneto controls.

As i thought, you didn't brought up Magneto affecting particle interactions, aka strong and weak interactions.
That is correct.

Magneto doesn't 'controls electrons', he control electromagnetic fields, that affect electrons.
More presisely, he generates magnetic fields, not just 'controls' them (that are different mutant powers), that's why all that 'ha, i'm Doom and i reversed polarity!' things worked on him.


Can you prove that? Can you prove that unknown particles have charge?

What have I been saying, for the last few pages?

I said, Electrons generates Magnetic Fields, that Magneto can control. When did I say, that Magneto just controls Electrons?

He manipulates them to numerous purposes.

I never said, that the unknown Particles, that Black Bolt generates emit EM energy.

As I recall, it was never stated they follow different rules.

Can you prove they don't?