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A father was jailed for 42 days on account of smacking his daughter so hard that it left bruises.

What are your opinions?

Not enough of a sentence? Too much?

Discuss.

-AC

how old is the daughter?

Why did he smack her?

How old is he?

Exactly how hard did he smack her (smack me until your hand hurts I won't bruise, bump into my sister and she bruises like a peach)?

How old is she?

Is there a previous history of abuse?

Did he hit her out of anger or as a disciplinary measure?

WHY did he strike her?

See, that is why this smacking rule is nonsense. You have to discipline your child, and smacking is the only way to let them know what is wrong. Reasoning with a child is like trying to tell a 30stone bloke to stop eating.

The truth is you can't find out all these things, and to be quite honest i'm sure police would rather this rule not be in place as it is time consuming, and there are bigger things to deal with.

Remember this is coming from a 13 year old.

As crass as that is, I have to agree. Although not the only way to discipline a child, it is a way that works. Reasoning with a child is, as you say, often futile. Not to mention time consuming and frustrating. Physical discipline, IMO, does the job. But unfortunately there are always going to be people who take advantage of such acceptance, and that makes it almost impossible to draw boundaries

"The man, who cannot be named to protect the identify of the child, admitted assault and said he had gone over the top when he smacked the boy as punishment.

The child told police the pain he felt was "like a cheetah biting him".

The 33-year-old man, from the Broughton area of North Wales, was told by Flintshire magistrates that there had been three offences of assault - three incidents of violence on his own son.

The victim was clearly vulnerable and the defendant had caused injury to him.

The man was jailed for 42 days after he admitted three assault charges and magistrates' chairman Graham Thomas said that it would have been 60 days but for his guilty plea.

The court heard how the defendant and his partner were separated but their two children would stay over with their father on a regular basis.

Prosecutor Justin Espie said the boy and his sister had stayed with their father for a couple of weeks in the summer of last year.

When he returned home, his mother saw bruising to his thighs and lower back and reported the matter to the police.

When interviewed, the boy said his father had smacked him and sent him to bed because he had failed to wipe his bottom properly and he had soiled his pants.

He told police officers that the pain he felt when his father hit him was "like a cheetah had bitten him".

His sister told the police the boy had to wash his own pants and that her father was very angry and had been shouting and saying "are you taking the mick or what?'' to her brother.

A doctor said the bruising was highly suggestive of a non-accidental injury.

Interviewed, the defendant admitted that he had smacked his son on three occasions and had smacked him five times each time.

He believed at the time of his interview that what he had done was lawful and reasonable chastisement.

"But by his guilty plea he has accepted that he went beyond reasonable chastisement," Mr Espie told magistrates.

Defending solicitor Steve Coupe said his client accepted that it was a serious matter but stressed his client had not set out to assault his son."

That's the story.

Opinions?

-AC

He was out of line... but I don't think he's a malicious father, not from the sounds of that. I just doubt he believed that what he was doing would be considered abuse, I can't judge him completely because I'm not a parent. But from an unbiased point of view, the man needs to learn some self control if he wants to stay in contact with his children

in this cae, the sentence was just seeing as how the father has a previous record of abuse on his own son. abuse is very different from discipline. i was disciplined when i was a child.

truth of the matter is time-out don't do sh!t to this kids.

"you're on time out. go to your room where you have a ps2, cable tv, and internet access so you can think about what you did!!!"

yeah, that will work.

Pfft. I think that if the smack is hard enough to...let's say, make your become mentally unstable, (like being chronically beaten), then those bastards should rot in HELL.
But, as Time Of Evil and Syren already said, using neccessary force to teach a child should not be a crime, so long as it is not taken too far.

Now to the story, I think the kid is already f*cked up, and so he actually LIED about it "hurting like a cheetah bit me"....Pfft, there are ways that people can bruise themselves ya' know....
But then again, maybe it wasn't an overreaction. Then, the father still probably shouldn't have been put in jail for 42 days. That would make him even angrier with the kid, and he might do worse! Man, when I was growing up, my Mom or Dad might give me a few bruises - but I learned my lesson, and didn't do whatever I did that was wrong again. Plus, I was a little $hit man! I almost feel bad that that's all they ever did. And then after, they'd cry and beg me to forgive them...

Good pointsh one and all.

Bit drastic though "it felt like a cheetah bite." Coz we all get bit by cheetahs.

-AC

OFF-TOPIC: AC I find myself.....drawn to your sig.....naughty

it is wrong..
i mean how could he hit his own child..
i mean how could ppl hit anyone

"OFF-TOPIC: AC I find myself.....drawn to your sig....."

Thanks. Don't just look at my name though.

Angelina looks like she's having an orgasm, surely that's a good thing too.

-AC

Damn you AC, damn you!

Clovie> Wow....that whole post sounds weird after I look at your sig...

Well thought out responses Syren.

I agree with your view on this situation.

take it separately.
sig is just a pic

Like, OMG *faint*

That's got to be the first in a very long time hug

Clovah, I refuse to believe you live in a world of pink cotton candy and fluffy clouds. It's perfectly feasible to think a parent could hit their child, just as it's viable that people war on one another. Wake up and smell the violence honey It doesn't make it right, and I'm not trying to justify it at all, but it's happening and you can't hide from it by simply questioning the motives.

That is horrible.I hope he got jailed.If it was my stepdad that smacked me he would not get jailed he would be let go.JM

blowup

slapping to discipline is alright in my books... god knows it works...

beating or abuse on the other hand isn't...

Good, hitting your children is the first sign of poor parenting.

I can understand a spanking for very small children but not hitting your child hard enough to bruise them.

Actually phycologists have found that hitting children solves nothing, usually it only makes matters worse, seeing as it gives children some attention, which is what children want usually when they misbehave. So, say a child does something wrong and the parent comes and starts hitting them or spanking them, the child will see that as an act of love and attention, and will continue to misbehave more and more so that they can continue to get that type of attention. This is especially bad when the parents ignore children when acting good, but start to yell and give them negative attention when they are being a brat. It will only give them more reason to act up more and more, so that the parents will continue giving them attention.

Physical discipline is always a sign of sloppy, lazy parenting and should be avoided at all times. There are better ways (both morally and in that they work better) to punish/discipline children. The best thing to do if you're child is acting up is to ignore them completely. Give them NO attention, that's the biggest punishment you can give a kid.

Well If they start breaking thinks and being destructive you cant just let that go un noticed.

Does that warrent inflicting physical pain on a child though?

-AC

Hitting doesn't work on kids any more than grounding them. My parents used to hit me when I was bad and of course I didn't like it but it was a quick thing.. one two and it's over. It never hurt to the point where it really made me think about changing my behavior.. but when they would ground me... I had to sit around and do nothing all day. That just drove me crazy. So from a kids point of view I think grounding them is worse as long as you take away anything fun they would be doing while they are grounded (tv, toys, whatever).

This is true...kids act up because they want attention. If you ignore them they may get worse initially, but eventually will give up.

No they won't.....
Spanking DOES work, because I was..."afraid", if you will, to do something "bad" because I didn't want to get spanked.

Same with my kids....when I have them.

Well not all kids are the same, speaking generally, you are an exception.

Regaurdless, the fact remains, hitting your kids is the sign of poor, lazy and sloppy parenting and should best be avoided.

Also, kids who are spanked by their parents are more likely to grow up "rebelious" and become bullies during school.

My Dad and real Mum never really hit me.

When my Step-Mum tries to I dodge it, I'm too fast for that old hag!

Then I hit her back

Wow....
Tell me, what did YOUR parents do when you were "bad", BackFire? Let you be?

In general, though, kids will stop acting up when they realize that they're not getting any attention.

(I'm a psych major )

Punishment is generally ineffective, especially negative punishment (i.e., spanking) because the child will almost certainly do it again when he or she cannot be caught. Positive and negative reinforcement, however, are much more effective for promoting positive behavior and discouraging negative behavior.

Yes, but then they'll be f*cked in the head, thinking you're ignoring them because you don't love them.....

No. I have a very large, intimidating father, so when he'd get mad that was more then enough to frighten me into behaving, most of the time.

Most of the time my dad would just say "Okay, you have untill 10 to stop that, or else." And he'd look really angry and scary to me, so I'd stop as he counted.

However, if I persisted to be a brat they'd take somethign away from me that I enjoyed, such as video games, TV or friends for a while.

So in a way, it was just as effective as getting a SPANKING!

Wrong again.

Positive reinforcement is what's important. Giving them attention when they do something good, as opposed to when they act up.

Nah, it was more effective. Spanking usueally only infuriates the child if anything. Makes them want to rebel more to get back at their parents for hitting them.

I had good parents though, so this was never a problem. I never really acted up because they gave me the positive attention I needed as a child, which in turn made me feel loved, which in turn made me happy and thus I had no urge to act up.

Okay....
Read post above on last page.

I agree that chronically hitting or beating your child is wrong, but a SPANKING when they are acting up is NOT.
Meh, that's just my opinion. I used to listen to what Psychiatrists said: But they are wrong ALL the time.

I should tell you guys about the time I stabbed my Step-Mum

#miffed#
See, you should go see one of those Psychiatrists.

Yeah, those big college degrees mean nothing, huh? I'm sure some lazy father who hits their kids whenever they do something wrong knows way more about the psyche of a child then someone who spent half of their life studying it. Makes sense.

I hate it how my parents love me, it sickens me!

WELL SHE STABBED ME FIRST! furious

Well....I'm an idiot to speak against your logic.
But I'll stay that way.
Ah....


BlackC@t> It's called having her arrested....sheesh......
"She stabbed me first!"
That's like me saying, "They beat the shiza outta' me first, nigga'!"

"Well....I'm an idiot to speak against your logic.
But I'll stay that way.
Ah...."

It's not "my" logic, it's simply logic.

Whatever.....
Fine, "Your Opinion", "Genuine Logic".
Better?

I was joking, it's off Friends!

But she does try to be cool and abusive, I usually just knock her ass down.

Oh....

Negative reinforcement is punishment.

yea, and i'll tell about the time I stabbed this other guy

Cool, spill

Ok so this guy robbed my friend who is small and cant do much so I went up to the guy and we exchanged word and then he ounched me in the face then I did the same then one of his friends came over and I stabbed him around the armpit area. Then I beat the guy up who robbed my friend, and robbed him back.

Spoken like someone who has never had children. Just to clarify I am NOT a sloppy nor a lazy parent. I stay home with my kids and do my level best to raise them right. I do the counting thing, i do timeout, i take away toys and priveleges & i reward good behavior. But at the end of the day that stuff is generally uneffective. So I spank them when it needs to be done. I dont hurt them. It is a kids job to push the limits, and it is MY job to make sure they know there are consequences to pushing those limits. Trust me, I'll put my kids up against a shrink's kids who have only ever gotten a talking to any day of the week. And when given a choice as to who is next to you in the grocery store line, I GUARANTEE you would rather have my kids there.

As for this particular guy, the kid obviously has problems to begin with. But, having already had a record of doing this he should have known better and thus deserves the time. AND that kid does not need to go back to see his dad until alot of issues have been dealt with.

I know how the guy feels, robbing places.

One time, I stole a loaf of bread, put it in the fridge until it was very hard, and then robbed a bank with it!

thats horsecrap. Parents cant do shit to children anymore. Which is going to get a point across better, a time out or a belt, or wooden spoon broken over your ass? I am not saying abuse should be allowed. I was abused, dad broke my ribs and sturnem i could care less. Even i see though that tehre are to many physical restraints today. a belt is not going to kill you. kids have more rights than parents do.

He broke your ribs? What did you do?

he beat me down and started slamming his foot down on me when i was bout 9.

Why?

because i was putting wood scraps in the wrong pile.

Well now you should have put the wood in the right pile..


jk.. thats horrible.

you are stupit time of evil, its not the only way to show your child whats reason and whats not, just talk and make it understand, well perhaps it was the only way to show you whats wrong and right, you must be so stupit just breaking your balls mate

THAT IS TOTAL BS, he did it because of THAT????

i know it is happening, but i don't like the idea...
and of course i don't live in that world you mentioned (btw it sounds disgusting)

one of the ways of fighting unfairness (word?) is not to admit it is happening...escape into fantasion... it is safer thatn living a real life.

You poor thing! Sweety I'm so sorry, come here! hug

I agree with Clovie, to escape reality I often retreat into day-dreams. I love to day-dream and 99% of my day is day-dreaming!

I feel explaining things to them would be the best. If not then you got to swat them or time out or take away the computer, but in no way should you belittle, beat, threaten in anger or anything evil. Because little people never forget

to make it illegal for an adult to hit a child is taking away a right? I don't see that. it's illegal to hit or intimidate another person, so why shouldn't this be the case when it comes to children? that doesn't mean that kids have more rights than parents, it simply means that when it comes to violence, children should be protected by the law too.

just because you cannot reason with a child, as someone put it in a previous post, shoudn't give you the right to hit it. violence is one way of wordless communication. that doesn't mean that no other ways exist.
besides, I have trouble differing what's the difference betweeen a well decerved smacking, and down right abuse. where should the line be drawn? what should be legal and what not? when's the parent's anger legitimate?
how the beating affects the child is so very personal that it's impossible to say just how humiliating and/or painfull it was, just as it's gonna cause discussion everytime a parent's motivation for smacking little jimmy around the face is to be examined.

Bilb,

While you and most parents have an understanding of being one because of the fact that you are, you and every parent I've ever encountered seem to entertain this "You don't have kids, you can't comment on parenting" fantasy. Let me be the first to, *pops*, pop that damn bubble that you've apparantly been living in.

"I stay home with my kids and do my level best to raise them right. I do the counting thing, i do timeout, i take away toys and priveleges & i reward good behavior. But at the end of the day that stuff is generally uneffective. So I spank them when it needs to be done. I dont hurt them."

You spank them but you don't hurt them? Then what use is the spanking anyway? The purpose of spanking is to hurt the kid and as a result deterr them from doing anything else. You do hurt them by spanking them and if you claim otherwise you're either lying or spanking them with a feather duster. Spanking, by your "it doesn't hurt" rationale, is the most inaffective punishment there is because by defintion, the hurt is what makes it effective.

"It is a kids job to push the limits, and it is MY job to make sure they know there are consequences to pushing those limits. Trust me, I'll put my kids up against a shrink's kids who have only ever gotten a talking to any day of the week. And when given a choice as to who is next to you in the grocery store line, I GUARANTEE you would rather have my kids there."

This is why kids do bad at school alot of the time. They associate pushing boundaries with being bad, no matter what boundaries they are. Yes it's your job to teach them that certain things are wrong but it's also your job to be a responsible parent and by striking them I don't see how you're doing so (aka you're not).

-AC

seems kinda like hard punishment

This obviously explains why you're such a psycho Stabbing people? Beating on your step mom just because you refuse to let her get one over on you? Let me guess, she's not your mother, she doesn't have rights. Been there honey, realised I was being the biggest, most moronic brat ever to have existed. I suggest you see a counsellor or seven.

BlackC@t, regardless of her past, is clearly settling into and living up to the title of being the morbid one on here.

If we stop humouring her it might cease.

Having a bad past isn't a gimmick Cat.

-AC

*raises hand*

I have horrific moments in my past. But, yanno, that's generally where that stay, in the past.

Everyone has had horrific moments in their past I should imagine, even if what's horrific to one isn't horrific to the other.

I've had stuff happen that I probably will never forget until my dying day, stuff that still gives me nightmares. However, when I wake up, that's where the things end. Past is past.

-AC

C'mere, you adorably messed up young man hug

i was smacked as a kid n i dont see the prob is it as long as its used in moderation. It does wrk - my sister wen she was little saw a kid having a tantrum in the supermarket. 5 mins later she thought "that looked fun, i should try it" - my mum smacked her and she never did it again. I on the other hand was constantly naughty and got smacked a lot, so although i have no problem with the fact that my mum smacked me, the effect wore off on me. I think it depends on the kid and the situation, but i dont think parents should be punnished for smacking their kids as long as they arent using excessive force. i certainly wouldnt think that smacking a child has a permenant mental effect on them except that they know the difference between right and wrong.

I am not adorably messed up you harlot.

I am merely the victim of a strange nervous twitch that could (and one day probably will) result in a serial case of pimp slapping.

-AC

"i certainly wouldnt think that smacking a child has a permenant mental effect on them except that they know the difference between right and wrong."

I'd have a tendency to remember if the two people that are supposed to protect you as a child, were beating me.

Just me though, one guy's opinion.

-AC

ye but theres a difference between beating and smacking.

and i mean disciplinary smacking thats used in moderation

Just like no two people are the same...no two children are the same.

For anyone to think that there is a clear cut way to raise a child properly is just narrow minded ignorance.

Some children will react to increased levels of anger and the occasional spanking more positively than others. The important thing a child needs to understand is that they were spanked because they were acting inappropriately and that the attention they recieve as a result of that is not a good thing. The child also needs to understand that even though their parents do this....it doesn't mean they are any less loved.

I agree that in the vast majority of cases it is important to be able to talk to your child about their behavior as oppose to resorting to physical violence, but children are immature and in many cases not rational.

My personal belief is that a spanking or a show of anger similar to past scenarios where the child had previously been spanked can work to stop the child's behavior dead in it's tracks, at the time. But anytime a method like that is used, I feel it is the parents responsibility to explain the rights and wrongs of both party's in a dual effort to avoid those situations in the future.

Just beating your children and telling them "NO!" is lazy and poor parenting. The child needs to understand that how they were acting was wrong. Using positive reinforcement by rewarding good behavior is an excellent way to prevent bad behavior before it starts.

But all this rambling isn't what's important. i think what's most important is that people need to understand that there is no one right way to raise all children. That kind of mentality is similar in nature to the U.S.'s belief that democracy is THE way to run a country.

clapping

Hooray for common sense and the ability to convey a serious message with sophistication.

Wow, thats terrible. Do you two still talk?

I actually agree with what you're saying

I'm definetly messed up. I always think 'She's not my mother, she doesn't have that right' and she probably does, but I still just can't accept that, even though I know I'm wrong.

But I am not a brat. I don't take things for granted, nor do I throw a tantrum when I don't get what I want. The stabbing her thing was a joke, not a funny one, but the way I was raised made me the person I am.

But obviously what she does is not right, or my Dad wouldn't go nuts at her when she does the things she shouldn't.

Syren, if you grew up like me then why didn't you do something about it? Why didn't you defend yourself?

By the way, you didn't have to be so mean about it

But I think now I understand why people like us are so horrible to one another. We tear each other down to make ourselves feel better because we're actually miserable.

Or when thier parents' friends do something they're not suppose too!

I treated my step mum like a piece of shit since the age of 10. I hated her for not being my mum, for marrying my father, for just being in existence. I was like, how dare she?? But all she ever did was treat me like a vulnerable child when I was one, a growing adolescent when I was one and a young adult, when I was one. She never judged, never treated me badly. The only thing she had done wrong was fall in love with my dad Anyway, it's taken me years to realise that she's probably a better mother figure than my real mum, who fell apart after my dad left and leaned on me for support. Her 8 year old daughter. I was ahead of my years academically and that made my mother feel she had the right to treat me like a support system, which in turn messed my childish head up to the extreme. If I could take back all the things I did and said to my step mum, I would. I'll regret my actions for the rest of my life.

Why didn't I defend myself? Because at such a young age you look to the adults around you to show you the right way of living. Because of my mother and her collective boyfriends I had no comprehension of right and wrong and therefore no inclination to stand up for myself.

I'm sorry if I came across as unnecessarily nasty, but shit happens honey. It really does

\
no he's dead. when he was alive , i tried really hard to be his buddy. but i dont think my dad understood what the emotional perspective of other people was. He was a drunk, and i was a kid. My Point is that there should be discipline in raising children. but not to excessive force. But a family should be able to raise his kids without woe of what the state thinks. I know there are cases that need Acton, but most times the abuse is more psychological than physical , which can be be far worse.

Yes in many ways it did - but u make the choices as to who you are - its up to you and the rest of us to make sure we dont make the mistakes with our kids that our parents did with us. Not that i think you will.

That's how I feel!
I'm mad at her for marrying my Dad
I'm mad at her for trying to be my real Mum. You see, my real mum died when I was four, and then my Dad met my step-mum when I was ten. So I never really had a mother figure for 6 years. I grew up without a Mum, a horrible thing happened to me when I was nine (which I'm not getting into) and all those things messed me up REALLY badly.
Then when Step-Mother came into the picture.
I just don't want to accept it
I'm horrible and nasty for saying it, but I've been consumed by so much darkness over the years

I think I came to the wrong conclusion about you How old are you?

Beating your son was SOOOOO 2 years ago!

The new trend is sexually assaulting your daughter

Or atleast that's what 9 out of 10 girls claim.

flirt

Claim? Watch your mouth preppy.

Sorry. The pity express doesn't make unexpected stops.

Pole, ass, pull out.

"I'm horrible and nasty for saying it, but I've been consumed by so much darkness over the years"

Oh give it a rest Cat.

I don't know about your past but chances are you haven't been consumed by darkness.

-AC

banyey Quit The Biznitchin' AC...

15 years-old.

I've been bruised before!

But my dad did not usually hit me which is just as well as his hitting hard would have resulted in my being killed or concussed fear

I was kicked

Ah, well I'm 20 which might explain the reaction I had

Just ride it out honey, things WILL get better hug

i've been slapped, and i've been beaten...

i don't believe i would hit my kids (assuming i had any, which i probably will) unless it was a last resort...

but i know the line not to cross...

Thank you

I couldn't have put it better.

thx

i just think that you can try and reason with them most of the time, but when your three year old throws a tantrum in the supermarket cos they want the barney bubblebath, what are you supposed to do? a little slap will only show them that if they do that the next time they'll get a slap... most kids catch on extremely quickly, so i believe it has a time and a place...

Appropriate action. Knowing where the boundaries are. Unfortunately, it's not instinctive and there's certainly no rule book. Who decides on the limits? Who has the final say on how hard to smack, when to smack, reasons and explanations?

Some parents confuse the role of parent and keeper though.

As Syren said, appropriate action.

-AC

"Some parents confuse the role of parent and keeper though."

That comment may lead some ignorant idiots to say, 'If you can't control yourself, get a dog.'

So, before you say that, bear in mind that it's RIDICULOUS AND MORONIC

its up to the person... i have a horrible temper (like my parents)... and my first compulsion is to lash out... but i make sure i take a minute and breathe... then decide...

I think smacking to allful...talk to the child for sake!!!